Dude I know. He articulates incredibly complicated subject matter in such a succinct way, and it includes concepts that offer deep insights into it. It's really something. I don't doubt the other professionals in the space who have channels on RUclips understand the material in their videos at the highest level, but none of them package it so thoroughly and in such a digestible way. Some people just have a natural inclination toward teaching.
31:00 "In most circumstances, individuals with borderline organization have sufficient contact with reality to be accountable for their actions." 39:06 "Individuals with borderline organization can learn to see and love themselves and other people in three dimensions. These capacities are not forever out of reach; they've simply not yet been developed." I appreciate your work, Dr. E.
Perhaps the main insight. When you get out of the border level of the organization. You understand that you have never truly loved anyone. I Simply idealized my own projections. Thanks doc. Your content is the best. I know this. Because I saw everything else.
Finding out there's some truth to the whole "narcissists can't feel love" hurt so bad. Realizing I wasn't loving myself either was an even harder pill to swallow. Doc Ettensohn really helps the proverbial medicine go down, doesn't he?
I recovered from BPD with some npd traits, and deep down I suspected and feared that I was an empty shell that could not love. After recovering, I realized how true that was and how much what I thought was empathy/emotion was masking because I lived in a realm where no one else existed outside of me, but ironically enough I did not have much of a sense of self either. It was just like a symbiotic simulated existence, excruciating and nothing all at once.
Dr. Ettensohn, I am a third year grad student, studying clinical mental health counseling, and a survivor of narcissistic abuse. I can’t express how grateful I am for your channel. I’ve been waiting for you to put out more content. Please continue the amazing work you’re doing! Understanding pathological narcissism from a Clinical perspective, specifically a psychodynamic lens has a big part of my healing! We need this! We need to understand pathological narcissism from both personal experiences as well as the clinical perspective… You’re so greatly appreciated, please continue you amazing work!
I hope you will continue to study his work so that you can bet it understand this idea of narcissistic abuse. It's a buzzword these days, but I think there much more to it than most of the popular social media anti-narcissist videos would lead us to believe
artisaline, I agree that unfortunately it’s become a buzzword used very loosely by individuals who don’t understand pathological narcissism… individuals can be really high on narcissistic traits ( narcsisstic traits are on spectrum, some possessing stronger narcissistic traits than others) they could be less empathic than others, a bit more self centered, arrogant, ect, but that is very different from being diagnosed with NPD as a disorder…. So I agree, we have to be careful using this term. It’s like we’ve gone back to the 17th century, (Salem’s witch trials) accusing anyone that offends us as witch! In this case a narcissist!… understanding narcissism from both personal and clinical perspective is imperative and given me tremendous insight and is helped me in my healing journey in profound ways, life altering in many ways…. That’s why we need more Channels like this, understanding this widely misunderstood disorder from all perspectives.
Hi Grant, thank you for the question, it’s a very important one! If an individual was truly involved with a narcissist (someone who meets atleast five or more of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM and are not just your garden variety jerk or #%!hole) but a true narcissist, then they would have experienced the most profound psychological anguish/pain after engaging longterm with a narcissist. You’ll realize you’ve been lied to, gas lite, and cheated on; you would have experienced verbal abuse that escalates, build up to the point where it becomes normal….Then eventually the narcissist will begin to engage in splitting which then leads him to devaluing you, and eventually discarding you; this was done to me while he continued to future fake me and did so up until the last moments of our relationship, and boom, like that he was gone; it’s truly such a mind-boggling experience to have someone idolize you such an intensity, unlike anything you’ve ever experienced to one day you wake up and they’re gone in a blink of an eye… that’s narcissism. When you experience this firsthand, you realize that some of these behaviors like devaluing an individual and yet future faking them at the same time contradict the concept of splitting, because if the narcissist actually engaged in splitting and went from seeing you as “all good” to “all bad”, then that would insinuate they know what they’re doing, and therefore being intentionally manipulative. This is where psychology deviates from other dominant (non clinical) personal accounts surrounding narcissism. Most psychologist believe narcissist are NOT fully aware of the abuse they administer, instead they are enacting unconscious behaviors caused by primitive defenses that they were unable to successfully negotiate due to childhood abuse…Lacking mature defenses, narcissist have immense difficultly maintaining healthy interpersonal relationships, specifically romantic ones. My ex frequently engaged in primitive defenses when we fought (which was often ) such as projection, projective identification, splitting (black-and-white thinking), blame-shifting; gaslighting….in addition his severe lack empathy and lack of object constancy became apparent; he could never truly form a healthy attachment to me, it’s so disheartening when you begin to understand their limitations from a clinical perspective… narcissist reenact behavior over and over in every relationship; it’s truly like a hamster in a hamster wheel (I’m not saying this sarcastically or to demean them). In addition, severe narcissism or pathological narcissism borders on psychosis (poor reality testing)…. based on psychoanalytic theoretical models, object relations theory, attachment theory etc…. psychologist, believe narcissist lack insight into their behaviors and actions… I agree a lot of it is unconscious, it is very clear that they are disordered unfortunately)… but a-lot their behavior is planned, coordinated, and executed in my personal experience… Their manipulation is directly linked to their survival….Their behavior is motivated by a deeply rooted primal fear…. Why is it abusive you ask? Although a lot of their behavior is unconscious , a lot of it is done intentionally or consciously….If a person knows what they’re doing then it’s abusive… truly this is a very complex disorder that we don’t know much about… we are peeling back the onion one layer at a time… but we must work in solidarity and also take preventative measures for future generations.
Thank you for your kind words; my intent is to help others heal as well… people w NPD are also suffering, and need help, but the strange paradox of the disorder is that many of them don’t seek therapy. We are all in this human experience together.
I appreciate how you compare different personality styles here so that it’s clearer what NPD looks like versus other PDs. The psychodynamic approach helps me see the bigger picture too instead of only focusing on surface-level presentation. Kudos keep up the good work!
I really appreciate your videos as a person who doesn't have NPD, but cared very much for somebody who has. What I learnt from having this person in my life is how difficult it is to live with Cluster B personality disorder. Your videos confirm what I felt and witnessed. You are doing a lot of good to fight the "witch hunt against narcissists". I wish I found a way to also do something to help fight the stigma around this disorder. Maybe it would help me heal and get over the powerlessness I felt with this person.
In a world that is very familiar with terms like fat-shaming, I think it’s really sad that we constantly psychologically shame other people. At the end of the day, it’s not somebody’s fault if they have a cluster B personality disorder. It doesn’t mean that you have to forgive them or be around them or help them… But if you don’t want to be, don’t demonize them because they’re not demons. They’re just people. People who are having hard time just like you so if you don’t want to try and understand that it’s fine, but I think it’s counterproductive to judge and label. Convenient, but lazy. We are never going to get anywhere on this planet by labeling each other, villainizing each other and constantly making everything a competition between who is more empathic and who is narcissistic and blah blah blah blah blah. Most people don’t even know what these terms really mean. “Gaslighting” is the new “literally” as far as being misused as a word. LITERALLY! 😂
The hue vs saturation metaphor was great. I really like your channel. While i dont have NPD, i find so much of your content really helps me understand pathological or maladaptive habits in myself, and i have much more enpathy for difficult personalities around me.
I also used some of my own thumbnails, lol. I agree that there is a moral panic concerning narcissism that drives scandalizing and stigmatizing representations.
I have not been diagnosed with NPD or related disorders, but I still find your channel so helpful for better understanding myself. I had never heard the term thin emotional skin before now.
My friend has bpd. I think my mother may also have it. Emotional detachment is the only way to enjoy a relationship with someone with bpd. It's tough. I tend to ignore the things my friend says when he's having an episode. I don't react, I just carry on as normal, try to remain unaffected by his attempts to garner an emotional reaction from me. I have had to put distance between us and have to re-state boundaries often. He genuinely has very little insight. He has very limited empathy and compassion. But I like the things I do like about him. It's taught me a lot about my own codependency and I'm healing from it through learning about emotional detachment. This is by far the best channel I've come across that explains what and why these people end up the way they do. It's very sad. I know my relationship with my friend will never fulfill me. I know his only motivation is to not be abandoned. Knowing why that is, helps maintain compassion. It's difficult to remain grounded and I can easily start to feel I have bdp or npd ... but 40 yrs of not knowing what was wrong with my mum, i always believed her when she said there was something wrong with me! Not anymore.
This is the best description of all this I have ever heard. I have a BA in psychology and we did not learn this stuff in such a coherent way. Thank you.
This resonated with me a lot. Thank you! You’re brilliant, per usual. Side note: Cognitive distortions is a disorienting experience and even more disorienting is trying to explain it to other people, especially the closer to psychotic organization the individual is. It’s not something many people can even comprehend. You did a damn good job explaining it. I often get lost in the subjective experience of it when trying to articulate it and that often leaves people more confused about it than before 😂
This video is so good that it literally hurts to listen to. As someone who started a collapse almost a year ago, I've gotten used to the idea that things hurt and things are shameful. The truth. The truth is the thing that hurts and is shameful. That's the reality. When someone can speak the truth this clearly, it hurts. But that's nothing new. Having things hurt are all a part of collapse. They're a part of trying to get back to authentic feelings, and nothing is more authentic than that pain and that shame that comes with a collapse. Thank you for this video. When you first published it, I had a critique but the truth is that was just my narcissism protecting me. Or trying to protect me. Thank you for working so hard to tell the truth over and over and over again. It might seem like someone in your position is bound to tell the truth but that's not my experience when it comes to experts and psychologists and therapists. NPD has a truth that not many are willing to explore. You are willing. I think all of us appreciate that.
As always, you bring forth so much clarity and understanding, thank you for your work Dr!. I feel like those videos really help grasp where one might be on the spectrum, and understand which problems one is currently facing. I feel like you're slowly building a 'map' of NPD, which is a tool I would have loved to have a few years back, when I came to know of this disorder. I'm very much looking forward to the next one.
@@healnpd Thanks to your videos I got to understand myself and others so much better from a psychological perspective but on a very basic human level, too. I've managed to be less hard on myself and others and you always inspire me to become a better version of myself. And according to my doctors I don't even match the NPD diagnosis. p.s. I don't think I'm "splitting" here. You're just exceptionally good at this! Thank you so much!
Dr. Ettensohn, Can you explain the manipulative behavior associated with pathological narcissism, specifically pathological lying, deceit, triangulation? I would love to hear a clinical perspective on this. Also can you please explain the mechanisms associated with splitting in more detail?
@@MrsKronologick I am only guessing, but the approach he takes to explain these concepts is advanced and detailed. I did not study this field, so I would have to watch this multiple times and probably take notes and draw diagrams to absorb it. Perhaps many people without a background in this field do not possess the time and/or interest to work that hard. I have not watched any other of his videos. It is what it is.
This is the first content I’ve seen from this channel but I am very impressed by how comprehensive and organized the information is. I have always had issues with the commonly presented duality of “narcissists versus empaths” and actually didn’t expect to find such a granular explanation that even involves developmental aspects of personality traits. …and I’m only about 4 minutes in. 😮
I love how you compare the overlapping traits of various personality styles to hues on the color wheel. And thank you for explaining that the presence of a personality disorder is like more saturation of the color. That makes sense. Very good educational video, I feel like I have a better understanding of personality disorders.
Dr. Ettensohn, thank you for continuing to make these videos - they are very helpful for many of us. I believe my wife is covert/vulnerable narcissist (no diagnosis but she finally started going to a psychiatrist - but very early days there) - and I am struggling with compassion for the hurting person at the heart of her psyche, but also with how to take care of myself - how do you determine how long you should stay or when you should leave? One red line I have is if she stops treatment - but if she keeps the treatment superficial and doesn't buy into it where does the line exist between keeping the oath "in sickness and in health" versus "I need to protect myself". Also, do you think a combination of raising children and social media could bring out narcissistic traits in someone who wouldn't have been that bad to begin with? I swear my wife was fine when we got married - but as the kids grew into their own people my wife would get more and more upset/rage/etc when they just didnt perform as "mini-mes" and also has an addiction to facebook and a few groups she maintains. (when teenage girls tell you that you are on your phone too much - I think there might be a problem).
Dr. Ettensohn, thank you for continuing to make these videos - they are very helpful for many of us that suffer with NPD, as a self-aware diagnosed narcissist, I see a lot of witch hunting so to speak on RUclips here and a lot of hatred towards people with NPD or any of the cluster B's . Which is justified because there are a lot of victims that get abused from narcissist that just want to answers... That's all, but not everyone with NPD is the person that abused them you know what I mean? You are a breath of fresh air and an inspiration for many of us that suffer with these disorders, again thank you and please keep keep up the good work! FYI this is not a "Love Bomb"! lol
Because I am not trained in psychology, I have to watch these several times. I happily use the pause function and replay parts of these. They are not too quick for me--if I had had a pause button during lectures in college and grad school, I would have used it in class as well. We need more professionals to be putting out reliable information for the public--thank you, Dr. Ettensohn, for this enormous public service! I am very curious about how treatment unfolds...how much improvement do patients get feel in their ability to empathize and thus feel motivated to try not hurt people, for instance, or how much does their strange rage at the very same people they are mistreating lessen over time? I love the use of graphics in these videos--I had not so clearly understood before that the reason that interacting with adult narcissists can feel so much like interacting with children is because parts of their developmental was actually arrested or re-routed from a very young age. The graphics hit that home! I also had not understood that grandiosity might be expressed in belittling of others, or contempt toward others...in other words, what "grandiosity" can include is not just the magnification of the self, but also the contempt for and disdain of others. That strange disdain, contempt. belittling--those are also facets of grandiosity. Thank you. That is very helpful.
This is the clearest, most comprehensive and accessible explanatory overview I've come across yet. Thank you! The inclusion of referencing the ways the defences and characterists appear in NPD vs other personality disorders provided useful distinctions. I really appreciated the tone of the video, which I found neutral/objective to sympathetic - not accusatory and filled with personal slights towards anyone dealing with these issues through no fault of their own, as many videos on the subject matter can be (as was even referenced here more than once). The only thing I would've liked more of is examples. Ie more description of the way these defences and characterists look on the ground. To add that extra layer beyond saying, for eg, a person may swing from grandiose to devaluing self image and behaviours, to include explamples of what they might say or do to themselves or others in these states. But really, the content of this video, and the clear way it is assembled and presented is Top Notch!!!
Thankyou Dr for uploading these videos, always look forward to your uploads 🙏🏼 “The collapse into vulnerability is made worse by the pressure the individual feels to get back to the grandiose self experience” - Perfectly describing the past year of my life. So much frustration and pressure to ‘get back’, but I feel like he’s gone now. Most of my thoughts are consumed by trying to find him again, whilst questioning whether he ever really existed in the first place. Very confusing/ disorientating experience, where do we go from here?
Hi Mark! Great to see you’ve found a niche about which you’re passionate and truly thriving. I started watching your channel to see what you were up to, but now I’m hooked. I have a bit of feedback. The concepts you’re describing are complex, and I find myself a few steps behind you in your videos. I think that I would benefit from your slowing down your speech. This might mean your videos would be longer or have to be split into multiple videos covering the same topic. You don’t want to throw your lines away.
Or one can pause, rewind, replay...but I understand where you're coming from, totally. Im going to see what it sounds like on .75 speed- whether it's too distorted?
I for one sometimes go to 1.25 or even 1.5 in speed to be able to still follow as too slow makes my brain clogg. Here in these videos it's perfectly fine. I do however take breaks , rewind, replay, pause, screenshot for later. I would not want a changed format and believe those watching are capable to find for themselves what works best.
Thankyou for your kind and very informative, intelligible but still academic videos. I have learnt a lot and I like your compassionate approach. My children and I are recovering from something resembling NPD or BPD abuse by my husband. I can't even approach divorce or police involvement due to his volatility and vulnerability. It has been 2 yrs but now he's isolated himself / or been rejected by everyone and has either decompensated or is transitioning into a psychopathic state. He can be sadistc. I'm becoming increasingly afraid the more I learn, but he did behave both in NPD and BPD ways and would go from grandiose (in the negative form) to a very young, vulnerable child. He once said that I was supposed to have taken over as his mother - he thought this was what wives were supposed to do. I live very far from him, but in his new, non communicative but angry state, I'm afraid.
We also need to acknowledge that society is part of the problem whenever they label ppl with cluster B as “difficult” they were already dealt with a much much more difficult hand than most, why should we call them difficult when it isn’t them that are difficult it’s the circumstances they were put in that they had to constantly daily contend with from their environment which was difficult. Ppl need to acknowledge and understand this.
Two realities can exist at the same time. It is just the truth that these people are difficult and it is also true that they struggle very much and deserve help. I agree that we shouldn't demonise them cause it isn't useful but we need to envoursge everyone to keep healthy boundaries with individuals who have no concept of boundaries. It's just wise. But we should still treat them with respect of course.
7:00 when Identity Diffusion happens, its not just the time needed to seperate, its the time thats A LITTLE EXTRA that makes partners see that they are both living in the shadowcycle of negative schema storms that can only be solved with meds lol
Wow. I think, for me it just clicked how personality development works at a very deep level. Thanks! Much more helpful than PD labels as npd, bpd or what have you. (Have long been wondering if they don't actually all essentially share the same root cause)
Does anyone know what other channels follow this Dr. approach? What I mean is: not stigmatizing the clustter/dark triad personality disorders. The only one I've seen doing this is Teal Swan. As much as hurt we feel towards those people, this is the safest thing to do. I had a ssri induced manic episode recently, and was posting sexy, self-congratulating photos of myself on social media 😅 AND I was treated HORRIBLY by people around me! I want these people to get the help they need, not to mention mania can lool like narcissism and if we approach this situation with hate, everyone suffers. I got severe ptsd just because I was 'feeling myself'. Heartbreaking.
It's funny because I've been reviewing your videos recently, wondering when this one would come out. It's obvious that a significant amount of time and care went into this video. This type of work requires both and I appreciate it. Forgive this next comment but I have to say that having you mention so many of the other disorders in the video was a bit confusing and frustrating. I feel like I'm living in a world that doesn't really acknowledge my disorder. You are one of the only people who does. There are others of course, but it is significantly few. And the number of professionals who have no idea how to treat NPD is equally frustrating. So having the other disorders get mentioned so often in this video... While I understand why you would do that (The reality that comorbidity is always present for so many of these disorders and that they do not function in a vacuum) I was frustrated by that. Sorry. I have no criticism of you or your work. I'm just reaching a very horrible dead end when it comes to this disorder and the real world. Thanks again for all that you do for us. I appreciate that your universe is often so clear and connected when it comes to the different things that you have to say about this disorder. If you piece together the videos, you definitely find a clear linked narrative about NPD. I'm sure you're research reveals new information all the time, but there's no doubt that what you are saying is consistent from one video to the next... And that includes your book. Take care
@artisaline - Thanks for your feedback. I debated whether or not to include other PDs in the descriptions of defense mechanisms. Believe it or not, quite a bit of it got cut. My goal was to underscore that pwNPD are not the only ones who rely on these defenses. They characterize the borderline range in general, and any personality style organized at that level uses them. My intention was to reduce stigma surrounding NPD and introduce a different way of thinking about personality disorder. Thanks for hanging in through the video!
@@healnpd Just to follow up... I know you're right for including the other disorders. I understand it. And it would have been an inaccurate video if you cut all of that out. I think I'm just expressing what probably is a frustration that isn't uncommon which is that I'm just a little sick of living in a world where my disorder is treated like... Dare I say the red-headed stepchild? There was no "hanging in with" the video. I was engaged the entire time. It's an excellent video. It's about the best video there is to watch on any platform when it comes to NPD. And that's saying something because there are other good resources out there. But this is definitely the best. So I appreciate your response. And please by all means don't interpret my response as criticism. It's really not criticism of this video. And I think it's also my NPD acting up because... I still feel like I want to be special. ☺️
@@healnpdI found this incredibly helpful in understanding my issues with my mother and grandmother. Really looking forward to more, and know that it’s very helpful ❤
Hi Dr Ettensohn - really enjoy your stuff. I had a couple of general questions which hopefully at some point you can find some time to answer. 1) The ICD has scrapped the old personality disorder categories and replaced it with a dimensional model that records traits and severity (perhaps inspired by Kernberg's theories?) NPD's traits seem to have been largely subsumed into the ICD's "dis-social" dimension, along with traits that would belong to other personality disorders under the DSM system. I believe there has been some talk that the DSM will adopt this dimensional model at some point. My question is - has the current DSM set up been making artificial/ arbitrary distinctions between personality disorders, are they in many cases a spectrum, and does the ICD type of dimensional model provide a more holistic way of looking at things? 2) To what extent do you think genetics and associated conditions play a role in NPD? I believe there's some evidence that ADHD makes having a personality disorder more likely - that it's often associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder / Oppositional Defiant Disorder / Conduct Disorder for example (and this if reflected by the fact that prison populations have disproportionate numbers of people with ADHD). I believe there's also been some research suggesting that people with schizophrenia are more likely to get a diagnosis of Antisocial Personality disorder too. Can some of the more negative aspects of NPD be explained by the more antisocial elements that can come with some forms of ADHD and therefore be genetic? Are we really looking at a spectrum where NPD and ASPD are different shades of what's essentially the same underlying issue?
I’m not sure about your second question. There is undeniably a genetic component to all mental illness. In the form of temperament, it plays a role in the goodness of fit discussed in the video. To my mind, the association between ADHD and personality disorder may be due to increased impulsivity and difficulty mentalizing/reflecting on thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. We might expect such issues to interfere with development of self-regulating capacities and insight, complicating relationships throughout life and leading to an accumulation of relational trauma. Regarding your first question, I think the DSM has absolutely been creating false dichotomies between different personality disorders. The first video on my channel talks about the construct validity issues with DSM personality disorder categories and issues with reliability (especially with NPD). It is clear that there are issues with the DSM approach. I think dimensional models of personality disorder are more helpful and more accurate.
"Without emotional skin" caught my attention. Are introjection and internalization distinguishable from one another? I have not finished the video. But I intend to.
@healnpd do you happen to keep a transcript of these episodes? RUclips provides them but they kind of suck and they don't have punctuation. I'm also unable to copy and paste on mobile. This is so valuable to me and to many of us I'm sure. I don't mean to ask for more after having already been given so much, but if you end up finding that it wouldn't be a challenge for you to upload a transcript in the description perhaps, I know many of us would find it very useful.
When a person with NPD goes through that cycle of Idealization and Devaluation.. that's incredibly abusive to the other person, and because of their lack of empathy and entitlement, they don't care or consider how the other person is feeling. People with NPD can be incredibly abusive. But they will never admit it. For me, I could see they were hurt and suffering, so I did my best to be supportive. But they gave me the silent treatment, dismissed me, and became very cold. It was horrible. I have PTSD now because of it. My ability to trust is gone. The fact is, narcissistic behaviors are damaging to everyone. But they damage themselves, and hurt those who care about them. 11:57 - "The caregivers response doesn't match the childs needs." When I didn't praise him for every little thing (my response), it obviously didn't match his 'needs' because he would then give me the silent treatment. Of course, he'd then come back around acting like nothing happened.
They need a mommy for a partner. They want to rage and insult you and then they want you to cuddle with them as if nothing just happened. They need professional help not adult relationships.
"But they will never admit it"? You do realize this is a channel made specifically for pwNPD who want to "admit it", right? Or are you just completely ignorant of the world that exists outside of your narrow view? I'm sorry you were in a difficult relationship, but it's time to stop demonizing disabled people because you're angry about it.
Happy to know I'm not the only one who says NPDemon, but it's been a funny moniker for me, not a title. I feel like any fellow NPDemon already knows their title and would tell me, being a muse and a mage myself. :3
Loved this video. Curious though, if you see OCD in your practice in pwNPD. In my own experience I sense that my OCD is displacement of shame and anger, stemming from relational trauma. Would love to know your thoughts!
Little more than a technicality, but you mean someone covered with second degree burns rather than third. Third degree is painfree because the nerves are destroyed. That might be an allegory to the numbness that some people describe, rather than excessive irritability.
Thanx for this video, your work is really appreciated ❤ May I ask a question about malignant narcisism? How you differenciate malignant narcisism from psychopathy?
Is it possible that NPD and BPD get misdiagnosed with ADHD and not having it? I do psychodynamic therapy and got ADHD diagnosis. I didn't get much the promised benefits for my productivity, but I got a lot out of it in therapy as painful memories got actually far easier to remember and to talk about it. My rationale was that the boost in dopamine, noroadrenaline and serotonin helped me in my stage to get easier to this things as it is known that hardcore trauma messes up with the dopamine circuit and in areas of the brain that are related to "pure" ADHD. Does this hypothesis hold up? I'm getting quite comfortable to feel and remember my splitedterrorized vulnerable child with such an ease. Or maybe it's trauma plus ADHD?
Is personality organization a separate dimension from the personality disorder, for example, can one be borderline organized and have no underlying disorder? Or does personality organization provide a subtype for the disorder clusters?
In this model, the organization is the “disorder.” Whatever personality style an individual has, if it is organized at the borderline level then they have some kind of personality disorder. If the style is paranoid, then they have paranoid personality disorder, etc. It is not possible to be organized at the psychotic or borderline level and not have a personality disorder. In addition, there will likely be numerous other “disorders” (put in quotes because they aren’t really discrete disorders, they are simply symptoms of the underlying organization). The old term for this is “pan-neurosis” (meaning “all disorders”). This is why people with personality disorders often have comorbid depression, anxiety, ptsd, bipolar disorder, substance use disorders, etc. They aren’t really separate disorders, just symptoms of the underlying issues in personality. Hope this helps!
Thanks for this explanation. This makes so much sense and is a lot more helpful than defining symptoms. We must define the root cause to properly understand
@@healnpdI’m enjoying this video, I have struggled publicly with mental health issues and talk about it on my channel. I’m interested in learning more about personality disorders and would love to set up interview if you are open to it!
Do you talk about what sort of treatment happens in therapy in your videos anywhere? I hear "therapy" all the time but that's really vague. Therapy for someone grieving a loss as an adult who had a 'good enough' childhood is going to have very different therapeutic needs than someone with complex trauma from childhood such as those with PDs. Obviously I don't expect a full session in a RUclips video but would you be able to give an overview of what we should be expecting from a therapist and in the sessions? What actually works?
Stumblimg into relationships for sexual gratification,impregnating people he didnt love ..leaving one partner but not just moving on,outbursts of rage when the partner cheated on dishes out the silent devaluation they are experiencing every moment with this new partner. I was very,very confused? What did they want? The new partner while simultaneously abusing the previous. The deliberate hateful attacks seemed very well thought outanipulation of my own ability to self defend..ie pushing with bullying a person to the point they stop trying to be so accomodating and finally snapped, the voctim ex fights back. Is this borderline or narvissistoc behaviour? I guess it doesnt matter as im no longer harassed by police visits if i point out reality or being accussed of stalking as i was being stalked. My curiosity always is piqued by all the varoations of perspective on bpd or npd , i doubt there was any trouble deciding he did not care at all about fair or the impact on the child. Id like to know to protect myself from horrific abuse like that again. After over a decade itvwould have been normal,as itvwas with previous relationships..to breakup and respect each others boundaries despite how we might feel.
But does that mean treatment for all cluster Bs is somewhat the same, means not changing the personality type, but rather learning tools to end in a healthier personality organization style?
Yes and no. The ultimate goals would be similar across any personality disorder, not just cluster b. However, the path to those goals and the extent to which they are achievable would vary depending on the person and the personality style(s) involved.
@fredotto518 - There is no reliable way to convince someone to seek treatment. That goes for any mental disorder. Reflect what you see, approach the person when things are calm, and encourage them to seek treatment; but understand that whether or not a person seeks treatment is up to them.
@@marekmedien yeah I’m a little better with friends, and go full narcissist to bpd to narcissist to autism with dating - I guess I feel shame due to autism and the bpd and narcissism is a cope
I always wonder why it's not called fear of rejection instead of abandonment - I never felt like borderline (but I'm diagnosted as such) as the abandonment trait is attributed so dominant - but I can't fear abandonment when I feel disconnected bc of imagined rejection in first place - what is it then?
If we are talking about borderline organization, then current relationships are partly composed of projected or transferred internal objects. Thus, a new rejection can feel like it triggers an old abandonment - except that the two aren’t necessarily experienced as separate things.
Sure, got the connection hetween past and present - thus the point is : having a critical mother gives a rejected bad object and an avoidend bad mother gives an abondemand resopnse? How do a person feel more abandonment or more rejection?
be careful with armchairdiagnosing your close ones (Iknow you do not). Videos like this can ba an important first step, but they should never be the final one.
Also both of these pds are somewhat intertwined... or basically, i'm saying, maybe it doesn't matter. But the help videos on how to go on after abuse might be very validating to you
The older I get the more I do chose to be a jerk.. and in that mode.. people will always call me a narcissist in this world where we classify every fight based on right wrong.. and people use mental health terms., it’s hard being called a narc.. it’s like being called an “ist” but I’m noticing that I feel more sane by telling people.. hey what you are doing is wrong.. in my opinion. The rage that comes at me always says.. narcissist.. but does it really make someone a narcissist for being disagreeable? lol no. I’m just sick of being nice.. I deeply want to be kind. But it’s not kind to pretend something is ok.. if you don’t actually think it’s ok.. it’s not kind to talk one way to someone’s face and different behind their back.. so. That’s my rant. 💕
Can we just acknowledge how much privilege normal people and majority of people have for not having to deal with this? It’s actually too tragic to comprehend how hard life is for ppl with severe NPD. Not only are they suffering but everyone around them is also causing them to suffer bc they’re being misunderstood and seen as bad and needing to change and not accepted
"Everyone around them is also causing them to suffer?" I pretty sure I didn't abuse my NPD Mother. She abused me. Gave me the silent treatment, gaslighted me, showed me a complete lack of empathy.. and all for what? pwNPD play victim all the time.
@@wave8867Sure I do, but I was also a victim of my mother and my father. Nobody said you weren't a victim. Homelessness hurts anybody with it, narcissist or not, as an example.
“Muh privilege” if that’s the angle you want to take then clearly you’re not serious about getting better, whether consciously or otherwise. There’s many conditions other than narcissism which people suffer from, notwithstanding physical conditions, and some people’s lives are just sheer hell due to external factors even with a healthy mind and body. 99% of people on this earth have some hideous hardship to bear or multiple. Ask yourself would you rather not have NPD but be unable to walk, or not have NPD but be born in Gaza? Stop thinking we have a uniquely unconscionable or unbearable burden or challenge, we’re not too good to be subject to this but at the same time we are good enough to overcome it.
17 minute mark Question: What is inherently wrong with “Defer to your better judgement”? And what exactly does it indicate in regards to Omnipotence? Random thought: Is it a form of virtue signaling ?
There isn’t anything inherently wrong with it if used in the appropriate situation or context. In grandiose narcissistic presentations, the “defer to my better judgement” is more of a blanket demand. There is pressure for the other person to collude with the individual’s grandiose self-image.
I guess this is great for other therapists….. for ordinary people don’t bother with this pointless analysis - if they are toxic, leave and go no contact. Their sickness is not our problem
I disagree. My mother and my ex husband both present with many symptoms of vulnerable NPD and these videos have helped me so much even tho I'm no contact with both of them. The impact on my mental health and my family of origin didn't stop when I cut contact. I hope you find what you need to heal too ❤
Your channel is criminally underrated
💯
100%
When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
seriously he’s so good
Dude I know. He articulates incredibly complicated subject matter in such a succinct way, and it includes concepts that offer deep insights into it. It's really something. I don't doubt the other professionals in the space who have channels on RUclips understand the material in their videos at the highest level, but none of them package it so thoroughly and in such a digestible way. Some people just have a natural inclination toward teaching.
31:00 "In most circumstances, individuals with borderline organization have sufficient contact with reality to be accountable for their actions."
39:06 "Individuals with borderline organization can learn to see and love themselves and other people in three dimensions. These capacities are not forever out of reach; they've simply not yet been developed."
I appreciate your work, Dr. E.
@JasonDBennett - Thanks, and thanks for watching.
Perhaps the main insight. When you get out of the border level of the organization. You understand that you have never truly loved anyone. I Simply idealized my own projections. Thanks doc. Your content is the best. I know this. Because I saw everything else.
Finding out there's some truth to the whole "narcissists can't feel love" hurt so bad. Realizing I wasn't loving myself either was an even harder pill to swallow.
Doc Ettensohn really helps the proverbial medicine go down, doesn't he?
I recovered from BPD with some npd traits, and deep down I suspected and feared that I was an empty shell that could not love. After recovering, I realized how true that was and how much what I thought was empathy/emotion was masking because I lived in a realm where no one else existed outside of me, but ironically enough I did not have much of a sense of self either. It was just like a symbiotic simulated existence, excruciating and nothing all at once.
Dr. Ettensohn,
I am a third year grad student, studying clinical mental health counseling, and a survivor of narcissistic abuse. I can’t express how grateful I am for your channel. I’ve been waiting for you to put out more content. Please continue the amazing work you’re doing! Understanding pathological narcissism from a Clinical perspective, specifically a psychodynamic lens has a big part of my healing! We need this! We need to understand pathological narcissism from both personal experiences as well as the clinical perspective… You’re so greatly appreciated, please continue you amazing work!
I hope you will continue to study his work so that you can bet it understand this idea of narcissistic abuse. It's a buzzword these days, but I think there much more to it than most of the popular social media anti-narcissist videos would lead us to believe
Agreed and glad people studying in this field are getting this information - keep up the great work to both of you ❤
artisaline, I agree that unfortunately it’s become a buzzword used very loosely by individuals who don’t understand pathological narcissism… individuals can be really high on narcissistic traits ( narcsisstic traits are on spectrum, some possessing stronger narcissistic traits than others) they could be less empathic than others, a bit more self centered, arrogant, ect, but that is very different from being diagnosed with NPD as a disorder…. So I agree, we have to be careful using this term. It’s like we’ve gone back to the 17th century, (Salem’s witch trials) accusing anyone that offends us as witch! In this case a narcissist!… understanding narcissism from both personal and clinical perspective is imperative and given me tremendous insight and is helped me in my healing journey in profound ways, life altering in many ways…. That’s why we need more Channels like this, understanding this widely misunderstood disorder from all perspectives.
Hi Grant, thank you for the question, it’s a very important one! If an individual was truly involved with a narcissist (someone who meets atleast five or more of the diagnostic criteria in the DSM and are not just your garden variety jerk or #%!hole) but a true narcissist, then they would have experienced the most profound psychological anguish/pain after engaging longterm with a narcissist. You’ll realize you’ve been lied to, gas lite, and cheated on; you would have experienced verbal abuse that escalates, build up to the point where it becomes normal….Then eventually the narcissist will begin to engage in splitting which then leads him to devaluing you, and eventually discarding you; this was done to me while he continued to future fake me and did so up until the last moments of our relationship, and boom, like that he was gone; it’s truly such a mind-boggling experience to have someone idolize you such an intensity, unlike anything you’ve ever experienced to one day you wake up and they’re gone in a blink of an eye… that’s narcissism. When you experience this firsthand, you realize that some of these behaviors like devaluing an individual and yet future faking them at the same time contradict the concept of splitting, because if the narcissist actually engaged in splitting and went from seeing you as “all good” to “all bad”, then that would insinuate they know what they’re doing, and therefore being intentionally manipulative.
This is where psychology deviates from other dominant (non clinical) personal accounts surrounding narcissism. Most psychologist believe narcissist are NOT fully aware of the abuse they administer, instead they are enacting unconscious behaviors caused by primitive defenses that they were unable to successfully negotiate due to childhood abuse…Lacking mature defenses, narcissist have immense difficultly maintaining healthy interpersonal relationships, specifically romantic ones. My ex frequently engaged in primitive defenses when we fought (which was often ) such as projection, projective identification, splitting (black-and-white thinking), blame-shifting; gaslighting….in addition his severe lack empathy and lack of object constancy became apparent; he could never truly form a healthy attachment to me, it’s so disheartening when you begin to understand their limitations from a clinical perspective… narcissist reenact behavior over and over in every relationship; it’s truly like a hamster in a hamster wheel (I’m not saying this sarcastically or to demean them). In addition, severe narcissism or pathological narcissism borders on psychosis (poor reality testing)…. based on psychoanalytic theoretical models, object relations theory, attachment theory etc…. psychologist, believe narcissist lack insight into their behaviors and actions…
I agree a lot of it is unconscious, it is very clear that they are disordered
unfortunately)… but a-lot their behavior is planned, coordinated, and executed in my personal experience… Their manipulation is directly linked to their survival….Their behavior is motivated by a deeply rooted primal fear…. Why is it abusive you ask? Although a lot of their behavior is unconscious , a lot of it is done intentionally or consciously….If a person knows what they’re doing then it’s abusive… truly this is a very complex disorder that we don’t know much about… we are peeling back the onion one layer at a time… but we must work in solidarity and also take preventative measures for future generations.
Thank you for your kind words; my intent is to help others heal as well… people w NPD are also suffering, and need help, but the strange paradox of the disorder is that many of them don’t seek therapy. We are all in this human experience together.
I appreciate how you compare different personality styles here so that it’s clearer what NPD looks like versus other PDs. The psychodynamic approach helps me see the bigger picture too instead of only focusing on surface-level presentation. Kudos keep up the good work!
Thanks for the feedback. ☺️
I really appreciate your videos as a person who doesn't have NPD, but cared very much for somebody who has. What I learnt from having this person in my life is how difficult it is to live with Cluster B personality disorder. Your videos confirm what I felt and witnessed. You are doing a lot of good to fight the "witch hunt against narcissists". I wish I found a way to also do something to help fight the stigma around this disorder. Maybe it would help me heal and get over the powerlessness I felt with this person.
In a world that is very familiar with terms like fat-shaming, I think it’s really sad that we constantly psychologically shame other people. At the end of the day, it’s not somebody’s fault if they have a cluster B personality disorder. It doesn’t mean that you have to forgive them or be around them or help them… But if you don’t want to be, don’t demonize them because they’re not demons. They’re just people. People who are having hard time just like you so if you don’t want to try and understand that it’s fine, but I think it’s counterproductive to judge and label. Convenient, but lazy.
We are never going to get anywhere on this planet by labeling each other, villainizing each other and constantly making everything a competition between who is more empathic and who is narcissistic and blah blah blah blah blah. Most people don’t even know what these terms really mean. “Gaslighting” is the new “literally” as far as being misused as a word. LITERALLY! 😂
I have loved ones with NPD & absolutely agree
@@LeahIsHereNow 💯
You truly are an “expert” in this field. Your work is valuable and appreciated
Thanks!
The hue vs saturation metaphor was great.
I really like your channel. While i dont have NPD, i find so much of your content really helps me understand pathological or maladaptive habits in myself, and i have much more enpathy for difficult personalities around me.
I really appreciate that you used the thumbnails from other psychologists' vids. The narcissist witch hunt is such a demoralizing issue.
I also used some of my own thumbnails, lol. I agree that there is a moral panic concerning narcissism that drives scandalizing and stigmatizing representations.
I have not been diagnosed with NPD or related disorders, but I still find your channel so helpful for better understanding myself. I had never heard the term thin emotional skin before now.
You are the genuine article sir…thank you!
My friend has bpd. I think my mother may also have it. Emotional detachment is the only way to enjoy a relationship with someone with bpd. It's tough. I tend to ignore the things my friend says when he's having an episode. I don't react, I just carry on as normal, try to remain unaffected by his attempts to garner an emotional reaction from me. I have had to put distance between us and have to re-state boundaries often. He genuinely has very little insight. He has very limited empathy and compassion. But I like the things I do like about him. It's taught me a lot about my own codependency and I'm healing from it through learning about emotional detachment. This is by far the best channel I've come across that explains what and why these people end up the way they do. It's very sad. I know my relationship with my friend will never fulfill me. I know his only motivation is to not be abandoned. Knowing why that is, helps maintain compassion. It's difficult to remain grounded and I can easily start to feel I have bdp or npd ... but 40 yrs of not knowing what was wrong with my mum, i always believed her when she said there was something wrong with me! Not anymore.
This is the best description of all this I have ever heard. I have a BA in psychology and we did not learn this stuff in such a coherent way. Thank you.
This resonated with me a lot. Thank you! You’re brilliant, per usual.
Side note: Cognitive distortions is a disorienting experience and even more disorienting is trying to explain it to other people, especially the closer to psychotic organization the individual is. It’s not something many people can even comprehend. You did a damn good job explaining it. I often get lost in the subjective experience of it when trying to articulate it and that often leaves people more confused about it than before 😂
I am so delighted to see the next video in this series! Please keep them coming ❤
Thank you Dr, been waiting for this episode, your channel is superb, really informative and interesting
Glad it has been helpful to you.
This video is so good that it literally hurts to listen to. As someone who started a collapse almost a year ago, I've gotten used to the idea that things hurt and things are shameful. The truth. The truth is the thing that hurts and is shameful. That's the reality. When someone can speak the truth this clearly, it hurts. But that's nothing new. Having things hurt are all a part of collapse. They're a part of trying to get back to authentic feelings, and nothing is more authentic than that pain and that shame that comes with a collapse. Thank you for this video. When you first published it, I had a critique but the truth is that was just my narcissism protecting me. Or trying to protect me. Thank you for working so hard to tell the truth over and over and over again. It might seem like someone in your position is bound to tell the truth but that's not my experience when it comes to experts and psychologists and therapists. NPD has a truth that not many are willing to explore. You are willing. I think all of us appreciate that.
In Ettensohn we trust
🙌
🙌
IDEALISATION
As always, you bring forth so much clarity and understanding, thank you for your work Dr!. I feel like those videos really help grasp where one might be on the spectrum, and understand which problems one is currently facing. I feel like you're slowly building a 'map' of NPD, which is a tool I would have loved to have a few years back, when I came to know of this disorder. I'm very much looking forward to the next one.
I watched all of your videos many times. I learned so much from it. More than from anyone else, I guess.
Thanks for letting me know. 🙂
@@healnpd Thanks to your videos I got to understand myself and others so much better from a psychological perspective but on a very basic human level, too. I've managed to be less hard on myself and others and you always inspire me to become a better version of myself. And according to my doctors I don't even match the NPD diagnosis. p.s. I don't think I'm "splitting" here. You're just exceptionally good at this! Thank you so much!
❤️
Dr. Ettensohn,
Can you explain the manipulative behavior associated with pathological narcissism, specifically pathological lying, deceit, triangulation? I would love to hear a clinical perspective on this. Also can you please explain the mechanisms associated with splitting in more detail?
YOU are incredibly good at educating us in this topic. Why haven’t you gone viral yet?!?!
Thanks! It's been a slow burn, but the channel is building momentum. :)
@@MrsKronologick I am only guessing, but the approach he takes to explain these concepts is advanced and detailed. I did not study this field, so I would have to watch this multiple times and probably take notes and draw diagrams to absorb it.
Perhaps many people without a background in this field do not possess the time and/or interest to work that hard.
I have not watched any other of his videos.
It is what it is.
The parts that I do get are about depression. It has taken years for me to gain these insights about my depression.
You have potentially saved my relationship, and therefore my life, with this and the previous video. A thousand thanks
Just bought your book - you are doing such good work. Thank you.
Awesome, thank you!
This is the first content I’ve seen from this channel but I am very impressed by how comprehensive and organized the information is. I have always had issues with the commonly presented duality of “narcissists versus empaths” and actually didn’t expect to find such a granular explanation that even involves developmental aspects of personality traits. …and I’m only about 4 minutes in. 😮
Your work is life saving. Thank you for these videos.
You're so welcome!
I love how you compare the overlapping traits of various personality styles to hues on the color wheel. And thank you for explaining that the presence of a personality disorder is like more saturation of the color. That makes sense. Very good educational video, I feel like I have a better understanding of personality disorders.
Dr. Ettensohn, thank you for continuing to make these videos - they are very helpful for many of us. I believe my wife is covert/vulnerable narcissist (no diagnosis but she finally started going to a psychiatrist - but very early days there) - and I am struggling with compassion for the hurting person at the heart of her psyche, but also with how to take care of myself - how do you determine how long you should stay or when you should leave? One red line I have is if she stops treatment - but if she keeps the treatment superficial and doesn't buy into it where does the line exist between keeping the oath "in sickness and in health" versus "I need to protect myself".
Also, do you think a combination of raising children and social media could bring out narcissistic traits in someone who wouldn't have been that bad to begin with? I swear my wife was fine when we got married - but as the kids grew into their own people my wife would get more and more upset/rage/etc when they just didnt perform as "mini-mes" and also has an addiction to facebook and a few groups she maintains. (when teenage girls tell you that you are on your phone too much - I think there might be a problem).
Dr. Ettensohn, thank you for continuing to make these videos - they are very helpful for many of us that suffer with NPD, as a self-aware diagnosed narcissist, I see a lot of witch hunting so to speak on RUclips here and a lot of hatred towards people with NPD or any of the cluster B's . Which is justified because there are a lot of victims that get abused from narcissist that just want to answers... That's all, but not everyone with NPD is the person that abused them you know what I mean? You are a breath of fresh air and an inspiration for many of us that suffer with these disorders, again thank you and please keep keep up the good work! FYI this is not a "Love Bomb"! lol
Unbelievably good video with so much meaningful insight about me
This is immensely helpful, informative, and insightful. I wish I could've been taught this material in grad school.
Fascinating and calmly presented material. Thank you for this.
Wow! You‘re content is highly systemized and structured!
And I thought to have a decent layman’s grasp of NPD! This was so eye opening.
Because I am not trained in psychology, I have to watch these several times. I happily use the pause function and replay parts of these. They are not too quick for me--if I had had a pause button during lectures in college and grad school, I would have used it in class as well.
We need more professionals to be putting out reliable information for the public--thank you, Dr. Ettensohn, for this enormous public service! I am very curious about how treatment unfolds...how much improvement do patients get feel in their ability to empathize and thus feel motivated to try not hurt people, for instance, or how much does their strange rage at the very same people they are mistreating lessen over time?
I love the use of graphics in these videos--I had not so clearly understood before that the reason that interacting with adult narcissists can feel so much like interacting with children is because parts of their developmental was actually arrested or re-routed from a very young age. The graphics hit that home!
I also had not understood that grandiosity might be expressed in belittling of others, or contempt toward others...in other words, what "grandiosity" can include is not just the magnification of the self, but also the contempt for and disdain of others. That strange disdain, contempt. belittling--those are also facets of grandiosity. Thank you. That is very helpful.
This is the clearest, most comprehensive and accessible explanatory overview I've come across yet. Thank you!
The inclusion of referencing the ways the defences and characterists appear in NPD vs other personality disorders provided useful distinctions.
I really appreciated the tone of the video, which I found neutral/objective to sympathetic - not accusatory and filled with personal slights towards anyone dealing with these issues through no fault of their own, as many videos on the subject matter can be (as was even referenced here more than once).
The only thing I would've liked more of is examples. Ie more description of the way these defences and characterists look on the ground. To add that extra layer beyond saying, for eg, a person may swing from grandiose to devaluing self image and behaviours, to include explamples of what they might say or do to themselves or others in these states.
But really, the content of this video, and the clear way it is assembled and presented is Top Notch!!!
Remarkable video. Thank you, doctor.
Most welcome!
Your channel has been extremely helpful! Please keep producing content!😊
Thank you! Will do!
Thankyou Dr for uploading these videos, always look forward to your uploads 🙏🏼
“The collapse into vulnerability is made worse by the pressure the individual feels to get back to the grandiose self experience” -
Perfectly describing the past year of my life. So much frustration and pressure to ‘get back’, but I feel like he’s gone now. Most of my thoughts are consumed by trying to find him again, whilst questioning whether he ever really existed in the first place. Very confusing/ disorientating experience, where do we go from here?
The path to healing can be long and winding. Just put one foot in front of the other and be patient with yourself. ❤️
This is the food my brain has been searching for!
This is a fantastic explanation! Thank you so much.
There is so much brilliant information in this video I have watched it three times. Thank you Dr Ettensohn, brilliant work ❤
Glad it was helpful!
Fascinating and helpful. Thank you.
Hi Mark! Great to see you’ve found a niche about which you’re passionate and truly thriving. I started watching your channel to see what you were up to, but now I’m hooked.
I have a bit of feedback. The concepts you’re describing are complex, and I find myself a few steps behind you in your videos. I think that I would benefit from your slowing down your speech. This might mean your videos would be longer or have to be split into multiple videos covering the same topic. You don’t want to throw your lines away.
@kammelzer9086 - Hi! Thanks for the feedback. I certainly don’t want folks to feel like that. It’s challenging to strike the right balance.
Or one can pause, rewind, replay...but I understand where you're coming from, totally. Im going to see what it sounds like on .75 speed- whether it's too distorted?
Nah. It makes poor Doc sound kind of drunk and ruins his crisp, concise delivery. I'm cool with pause & repeat.
You could slow down your playback speed?
I for one sometimes go to 1.25 or even 1.5 in speed to be able to still follow as too slow makes my brain clogg. Here in these videos it's perfectly fine. I do however take breaks , rewind, replay, pause, screenshot for later. I would not want a changed format and believe those watching are capable to find for themselves what works best.
This guy is diagnosing me.
Thankyou for your kind and very informative, intelligible but still academic videos. I have learnt a lot and I like your compassionate approach. My children and I are recovering from something resembling NPD or BPD abuse by my husband. I can't even approach divorce or police involvement due to his volatility and vulnerability. It has been 2 yrs but now he's isolated himself / or been rejected by everyone and has either decompensated or is transitioning into a psychopathic state. He can be sadistc. I'm becoming increasingly afraid the more I learn, but he did behave both in NPD and BPD ways and would go from grandiose (in the negative form) to a very young, vulnerable child. He once said that I was supposed to have taken over as his mother - he thought this was what wives were supposed to do.
I live very far from him, but in his new, non communicative but angry state, I'm afraid.
Thank you for posting... Very well said
Thank you dr.
Welcome 😊
Excellent over view
We also need to acknowledge that society is part of the problem whenever they label ppl with cluster B as “difficult” they were already dealt with a much much more difficult hand than most, why should we call them difficult when it isn’t them that are difficult it’s the circumstances they were put in that they had to constantly daily contend with from their environment which was difficult. Ppl need to acknowledge and understand this.
Two realities can exist at the same time. It is just the truth that these people are difficult and it is also true that they struggle very much and deserve help. I agree that we shouldn't demonise them cause it isn't useful but we need to envoursge everyone to keep healthy boundaries with individuals who have no concept of boundaries. It's just wise. But we should still treat them with respect of course.
7:00 when Identity Diffusion happens, its not just the time needed to seperate, its the time thats A LITTLE EXTRA that makes partners see that they are both living in the shadowcycle of negative schema storms that can only be solved with meds lol
Wow. I think, for me it just clicked how personality development works at a very deep level. Thanks! Much more helpful than PD labels as npd, bpd or what have you. (Have long been wondering if they don't actually all essentially share the same root cause)
Does anyone know what other channels follow this Dr. approach? What I mean is: not stigmatizing the clustter/dark triad personality disorders.
The only one I've seen doing this is Teal Swan.
As much as hurt we feel towards those people, this is the safest thing to do. I had a ssri induced manic episode recently, and was posting sexy, self-congratulating photos of myself on social media 😅 AND I was treated HORRIBLY by people around me! I want these people to get the help they need, not to mention mania can lool like narcissism and if we approach this situation with hate, everyone suffers.
I got severe ptsd just because I was 'feeling myself'. Heartbreaking.
It's funny because I've been reviewing your videos recently, wondering when this one would come out. It's obvious that a significant amount of time and care went into this video. This type of work requires both and I appreciate it.
Forgive this next comment but I have to say that having you mention so many of the other disorders in the video was a bit confusing and frustrating. I feel like I'm living in a world that doesn't really acknowledge my disorder. You are one of the only people who does. There are others of course, but it is significantly few. And the number of professionals who have no idea how to treat NPD is equally frustrating. So having the other disorders get mentioned so often in this video... While I understand why you would do that (The reality that comorbidity is always present for so many of these disorders and that they do not function in a vacuum) I was frustrated by that. Sorry. I have no criticism of you or your work. I'm just reaching a very horrible dead end when it comes to this disorder and the real world.
Thanks again for all that you do for us. I appreciate that your universe is often so clear and connected when it comes to the different things that you have to say about this disorder. If you piece together the videos, you definitely find a clear linked narrative about NPD. I'm sure you're research reveals new information all the time, but there's no doubt that what you are saying is consistent from one video to the next... And that includes your book. Take care
@artisaline - Thanks for your feedback. I debated whether or not to include other PDs in the descriptions of defense mechanisms. Believe it or not, quite a bit of it got cut. My goal was to underscore that pwNPD are not the only ones who rely on these defenses. They characterize the borderline range in general, and any personality style organized at that level uses them. My intention was to reduce stigma surrounding NPD and introduce a different way of thinking about personality disorder. Thanks for hanging in through the video!
@@healnpd Just to follow up... I know you're right for including the other disorders. I understand it. And it would have been an inaccurate video if you cut all of that out. I think I'm just expressing what probably is a frustration that isn't uncommon which is that I'm just a little sick of living in a world where my disorder is treated like... Dare I say the red-headed stepchild? There was no "hanging in with" the video. I was engaged the entire time. It's an excellent video. It's about the best video there is to watch on any platform when it comes to NPD. And that's saying something because there are other good resources out there. But this is definitely the best. So I appreciate your response. And please by all means don't interpret my response as criticism. It's really not criticism of this video. And I think it's also my NPD acting up because... I still feel like I want to be special. ☺️
@artisaline - Thanks! 😊
@@healnpdI found this incredibly helpful in understanding my issues with my mother and grandmother. Really looking forward to more, and know that it’s very helpful ❤
Hi Dr Ettensohn - really enjoy your stuff. I had a couple of general questions which hopefully at some point you can find some time to answer.
1) The ICD has scrapped the old personality disorder categories and replaced it with a dimensional model that records traits and severity (perhaps inspired by Kernberg's theories?) NPD's traits seem to have been largely subsumed into the ICD's "dis-social" dimension, along with traits that would belong to other personality disorders under the DSM system. I believe there has been some talk that the DSM will adopt this dimensional model at some point. My question is - has the current DSM set up been making artificial/ arbitrary distinctions between personality disorders, are they in many cases a spectrum, and does the ICD type of dimensional model provide a more holistic way of looking at things?
2) To what extent do you think genetics and associated conditions play a role in NPD? I believe there's some evidence that ADHD makes having a personality disorder more likely - that it's often associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder / Oppositional Defiant Disorder / Conduct Disorder for example (and this if reflected by the fact that prison populations have disproportionate numbers of people with ADHD). I believe there's also been some research suggesting that people with schizophrenia are more likely to get a diagnosis of Antisocial Personality disorder too. Can some of the more negative aspects of NPD be explained by the more antisocial elements that can come with some forms of ADHD and therefore be genetic? Are we really looking at a spectrum where NPD and ASPD are different shades of what's essentially the same underlying issue?
I’m not sure about your second question. There is undeniably a genetic component to all mental illness. In the form of temperament, it plays a role in the goodness of fit discussed in the video. To my mind, the association between ADHD and personality disorder may be due to increased impulsivity and difficulty mentalizing/reflecting on thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. We might expect such issues to interfere with development of self-regulating capacities and insight, complicating relationships throughout life and leading to an accumulation of relational trauma.
Regarding your first question, I think the DSM has absolutely been creating false dichotomies between different personality disorders. The first video on my channel talks about the construct validity issues with DSM personality disorder categories and issues with reliability (especially with NPD). It is clear that there are issues with the DSM approach. I think dimensional models of personality disorder are more helpful and more accurate.
"Without emotional skin" caught my attention.
Are introjection and internalization distinguishable from one another?
I have not finished the video. But I intend to.
@healnpd do you happen to keep a transcript of these episodes? RUclips provides them but they kind of suck and they don't have punctuation. I'm also unable to copy and paste on mobile. This is so valuable to me and to many of us I'm sure. I don't mean to ask for more after having already been given so much, but if you end up finding that it wouldn't be a challenge for you to upload a transcript in the description perhaps, I know many of us would find it very useful.
Yes, I have a transcript and will upload it to RUclips (assuming that is possible) later today.
I really appreciate it, thank you for everything you've done and continue to do @@healnpd
When a person with NPD goes through that cycle of Idealization and Devaluation.. that's incredibly abusive to the other person, and because of their lack of empathy and entitlement, they don't care or consider how the other person is feeling.
People with NPD can be incredibly abusive. But they will never admit it.
For me, I could see they were hurt and suffering, so I did my best to be supportive. But they gave me the silent treatment, dismissed me, and became very cold. It was horrible. I have PTSD now because of it. My ability to trust is gone.
The fact is, narcissistic behaviors are damaging to everyone. But they damage themselves, and hurt those who care about them.
11:57 - "The caregivers response doesn't match the childs needs."
When I didn't praise him for every little thing (my response), it obviously didn't match his 'needs' because he would then give me the silent treatment. Of course, he'd then come back around acting like nothing happened.
They need a mommy for a partner. They want to rage and insult you and then they want you to cuddle with them as if nothing just happened. They need professional help not adult relationships.
@@beth8275 who is "they", exactly?
"But they will never admit it"? You do realize this is a channel made specifically for pwNPD who want to "admit it", right? Or are you just completely ignorant of the world that exists outside of your narrow view? I'm sorry you were in a difficult relationship, but it's time to stop demonizing disabled people because you're angry about it.
@@funnylittlecreature where did I demonize? and I'm not angry, I'm hurt. All because of someone else's actions and behaviors.
The more psychobabble I listen to, the more I'm convinced that the field of psychology is a philosophy. Listening to this is oddly touching.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon You'd be right
Happy to know I'm not the only one who says NPDemon, but it's been a funny moniker for me, not a title.
I feel like any fellow NPDemon already knows their title and would tell me, being a muse and a mage myself. :3
Thank you for your videos!
Loved this video. Curious though, if you see OCD in your practice in pwNPD. In my own experience I sense that my OCD is displacement of shame and anger, stemming from relational trauma. Would love to know your thoughts!
Little more than a technicality, but you mean someone covered with second degree burns rather than third. Third degree is painfree because the nerves are destroyed. That might be an allegory to the numbness that some people describe, rather than excessive irritability.
I had emotional skin until complex trauma and then everything was externalized I was only ok as long as people let me be
D*mn... Your'e good😮... Thank You, Dr Ettensohn❣️ You are a lifesaver❤
Thanx for this video, your work is really appreciated ❤
May I ask a question about malignant narcisism?
How you differenciate malignant narcisism from psychopathy?
I have a video that discusses malignant narcissism: ruclips.net/video/A9XGEG0enww/видео.htmlsi=fTgEeTvAbFHIruZU
Thank you
You're welcome ☺️
Is it possible that NPD and BPD get misdiagnosed with ADHD and not having it? I do psychodynamic therapy and got ADHD diagnosis. I didn't get much the promised benefits for my productivity, but I got a lot out of it in therapy as painful memories got actually far easier to remember and to talk about it. My rationale was that the boost in dopamine, noroadrenaline and serotonin helped me in my stage to get easier to this things as it is known that hardcore trauma messes up with the dopamine circuit and in areas of the brain that are related to "pure" ADHD. Does this hypothesis hold up? I'm getting quite comfortable to feel and remember my splitedterrorized vulnerable child with such an ease. Or maybe it's trauma plus ADHD?
Is personality organization a separate dimension from the personality disorder, for example, can one be borderline organized and have no underlying disorder? Or does personality organization provide a subtype for the disorder clusters?
In this model, the organization is the “disorder.” Whatever personality style an individual has, if it is organized at the borderline level then they have some kind of personality disorder. If the style is paranoid, then they have paranoid personality disorder, etc. It is not possible to be organized at the psychotic or borderline level and not have a personality disorder. In addition, there will likely be numerous other “disorders” (put in quotes because they aren’t really discrete disorders, they are simply symptoms of the underlying organization). The old term for this is “pan-neurosis” (meaning “all disorders”). This is why people with personality disorders often have comorbid depression, anxiety, ptsd, bipolar disorder, substance use disorders, etc. They aren’t really separate disorders, just symptoms of the underlying issues in personality. Hope this helps!
@@healnpd very much explains it, thank you!
Thanks for this explanation. This makes so much sense and is a lot more helpful than defining symptoms. We must define the root cause to properly understand
we shouldn't be made to exist in a constant nanny state and we shouldn't be made to constanrly think we're forever broken.
First time listening to a video is actually reading a book!
Does anyone have any recommendations on readings/textbooks on psychodynamic therapy for cluster B PDs?
Do you do interviews?
Yes, I have done interviews in other RUclips channels, podcasts, and health websites.
@@healnpdI’m enjoying this video, I have struggled publicly with mental health issues and talk about it on my channel. I’m interested in learning more about personality disorders and would love to set up interview if you are open to it!
i love the formality of this channel. Is this guy AI generated? I actually cant tell if this is an AI video or not ... amazing either way.
Haha no he's not AI 😂
Do you talk about what sort of treatment happens in therapy in your videos anywhere? I hear "therapy" all the time but that's really vague. Therapy for someone grieving a loss as an adult who had a 'good enough' childhood is going to have very different therapeutic needs than someone with complex trauma from childhood such as those with PDs. Obviously I don't expect a full session in a RUclips video but would you be able to give an overview of what we should be expecting from a therapist and in the sessions? What actually works?
@mixedlag - This video focuses on treatment: ruclips.net/video/jXxR_lxlrns/видео.htmlsi=M4KwuFBfzKE50kYT
@@healnpd Nice. Thank you.
Stumblimg into relationships for sexual gratification,impregnating people he didnt love ..leaving one partner but not just moving on,outbursts of rage when the partner cheated on dishes out the silent devaluation they are experiencing every moment with this new partner. I was very,very confused? What did they want? The new partner while simultaneously abusing the previous. The deliberate hateful attacks seemed very well thought outanipulation of my own ability to self defend..ie pushing with bullying a person to the point they stop trying to be so accomodating and finally snapped, the voctim ex fights back. Is this borderline or narvissistoc behaviour? I guess it doesnt matter as im no longer harassed by police visits if i point out reality or being accussed of stalking as i was being stalked. My curiosity always is piqued by all the varoations of perspective on bpd or npd , i doubt there was any trouble deciding he did not care at all about fair or the impact on the child. Id like to know to protect myself from horrific abuse like that again. After over a decade itvwould have been normal,as itvwas with previous relationships..to breakup and respect each others boundaries despite how we might feel.
But does that mean treatment for all cluster Bs is somewhat the same, means not changing the personality type, but rather learning tools to end in a healthier personality organization style?
Yes and no. The ultimate goals would be similar across any personality disorder, not just cluster b. However, the path to those goals and the extent to which they are achievable would vary depending on the person and the personality style(s) involved.
which one of your videos explains how to convince the narc they need help?
@fredotto518 - There is no reliable way to convince someone to seek treatment. That goes for any mental disorder. Reflect what you see, approach the person when things are calm, and encourage them to seek treatment; but understand that whether or not a person seeks treatment is up to them.
I may be autism BPD narcissist. This makes dating and friends impossible I think
i feel you, although I think I'm doing somewhat okay with friends
@@marekmedien yeah I’m a little better with friends, and go full narcissist to bpd to narcissist to autism with dating - I guess I feel shame due to autism and the bpd and narcissism is a cope
I want my mom.
@@Thatsbannanas-d8c me too but mine
I always wonder why it's not called fear of rejection instead of abandonment - I never felt like borderline (but I'm diagnosted as such) as the abandonment trait is attributed so dominant - but I can't fear abandonment when I feel disconnected bc of imagined rejection in first place - what is it then?
I think, at a certain level, rejection is experienced as a kind of abandonment.
What kind of level? Truely curious about your answer
If we are talking about borderline organization, then current relationships are partly composed of projected or transferred internal objects. Thus, a new rejection can feel like it triggers an old abandonment - except that the two aren’t necessarily experienced as separate things.
Sure, got the connection hetween past and present - thus the point is : having a critical mother gives a rejected bad object and an avoidend bad mother gives an abondemand resopnse? How do a person feel more abandonment or more rejection?
Maybe you have rejection sensitive dysphoria, tends to go with ADHD.
So what do we do now that we have an Orange King?
Everything you said described my ex gf perfectly. I often thought she had BPD but now I’m starting to wonder if she had NPD..
be careful with armchairdiagnosing your close ones (Iknow you do not). Videos like this can ba an important first step, but they should never be the final one.
Also both of these pds are somewhat intertwined... or basically, i'm saying, maybe it doesn't matter. But the help videos on how to go on after abuse might be very validating to you
The older I get the more I do chose to be a jerk.. and in that mode.. people will always call me a narcissist in this world where we classify every fight based on right wrong.. and people use mental health terms., it’s hard being called a narc.. it’s like being called an “ist” but I’m noticing that I feel more sane by telling people.. hey what you are doing is wrong.. in my opinion. The rage that comes at me always says.. narcissist.. but does it really make someone a narcissist for being disagreeable? lol no. I’m just sick of being nice.. I deeply want to be kind. But it’s not kind to pretend something is ok.. if you don’t actually think it’s ok.. it’s not kind to talk one way to someone’s face and different behind their back.. so. That’s my rant. 💕
Can we just acknowledge how much privilege normal people and majority of people have for not having to deal with this? It’s actually too tragic to comprehend how hard life is for ppl with severe NPD. Not only are they suffering but everyone around them is also causing them to suffer bc they’re being misunderstood and seen as bad and needing to change and not accepted
"Everyone around them is also causing them to suffer?"
I pretty sure I didn't abuse my NPD Mother. She abused me. Gave me the silent treatment, gaslighted me, showed me a complete lack of empathy.. and all for what?
pwNPD play victim all the time.
@@wave8867Sure I do, but I was also a victim of my mother and my father.
Nobody said you weren't a victim.
Homelessness hurts anybody with it, narcissist or not, as an example.
“Muh privilege” if that’s the angle you want to take then clearly you’re not serious about getting better, whether consciously or otherwise. There’s many conditions other than narcissism which people suffer from, notwithstanding physical conditions, and some people’s lives are just sheer hell due to external factors even with a healthy mind and body. 99% of people on this earth have some hideous hardship to bear or multiple. Ask yourself would you rather not have NPD but be unable to walk, or not have NPD but be born in Gaza? Stop thinking we have a uniquely unconscionable or unbearable burden or challenge, we’re not too good to be subject to this but at the same time we are good enough to overcome it.
@Rares0101 It just means some people go through hell without any help at all, stop reading too far into shit and judging people for it.
Schzoid fantasy is how I’ve lived for many decades
17 minute mark
Question:
What is inherently wrong with
“Defer to your better judgement”?
And what exactly does it indicate in regards to Omnipotence?
Random thought: Is it a form of virtue signaling ?
There isn’t anything inherently wrong with it if used in the appropriate situation or context. In grandiose narcissistic presentations, the “defer to my better judgement” is more of a blanket demand. There is pressure for the other person to collude with the individual’s grandiose self-image.
Is this the most common type?
It is the most common range for NPD.
8:00
I guess this is great for other therapists….. for ordinary people don’t bother with this pointless analysis - if they are toxic, leave and go no contact. Their sickness is not our problem
I disagree. My mother and my ex husband both present with many symptoms of vulnerable NPD and these videos have helped me so much even tho I'm no contact with both of them. The impact on my mental health and my family of origin didn't stop when I cut contact. I hope you find what you need to heal too ❤