Using a Bear Can in a Frameless Ultralight Backpack
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2023
- Along a Pacific Crest Trail thru hike (and many other hiking destinations in the US) a bear can is required to store your food so that BEARS and other animals don't get into it.
Bear cans mostly suck. They are hard to open, annoying to use, heavy, and cumbersome. But they do serve an important purpose in high traffic areas to keep wildlife wild.
Along the PCT you will need one for the Sierra Nevada Mountains, including Kings Canyon, and Yosemite National Park. They are also required around Lake Tahoe in Desolation Wilderness, and later on in Lassen Volcanic National Park should you want to camp in these places. Most will hike through the later two areas in a single day to avoid this regulation, but in other places that is not possible.
The best bear can, BV500: amzn.to/3klJJIN
MY PCT GEAR LIST!
www.jupiterhikes.com/gear/
Bear cans are required between these miles heading northbound
Sierra:
- 753 - 763
- 779 - 807
- 929 - 997
Desolation:
- 1095 - 1117
Lassen:
- 1344 - 1364
I have been asked many times, and have seen many struggle trying to use the hard ridged canister in frameless ultralight backpacks, especially so on the PCT just this year! I hope this video helps all those in the future who want to adventure in places that do have these regulations. The Olympic National Park along the Pacific Northwest Trail comes to mind!
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A bunch of people in the Sierra asked me about carrying a bear can, if I was, and how was I going about it. I hope this video helps!
How often other hikers have asked you if you have run out of food, with the empty bear can strapped on your pack? 😀
Probably a dumb question, but you did the first method (inside the pack) for the PCT. If you did it again, would you do the second method (outside the pack)? Thx
@@kaytss I would definitely do the second method! It is what I've done most, and was more so just trying the inside the pack again to compare
Nice. I also use the 450, and also pack it inside. I keep a 4mm thick EVA pad I use in my sleep system (I no longer 100% trust inflatables for insulation from the ground), and it doubles as a "frame sheet" to keep the bear can from digging in. Not as light as your setup, but I'm ok with it. Still around a 15lb pack weight.
You know you are a dad if the whole time watching this video you too were afraid Jupiter would accidentally lean back and fall off that cliff 😆. I could barely watch this it made me so nervous. But I love your videos; thanks.
Same 😅
For real
😂 This mom was feeling the same thing.
Hi Jupiter, I appreciate that you're addressing this topic! I own both a BV450 and a BV500, and I've tried both canisters with a few different packs, including the V2. When I carry the 450, I rotate it 90 degrees so the black lid is against my back and there's no round bulge against my spine.
I'm not a fan of carrying an emptied canister for a few reasons:
1.) in a few areas, bears have learned to approach ppl eating food who then quickly retreat, sometimes leaving unsecured food behind. So, I try to treat my canister like a fridge--it's only open when I'm actively putting food in/out. Otherwise, it stays closed. (I do realize the unlikelihood of such an encounter and still keep most of the day's food accessible in an outer pocket for convenience.);
2.) I do a lot of off-trail hiking, and it can be easy to lose anything not secure inside my pack when scrambling over class 3 terrain; and
3.) re-packing food in the canister each night would add another chore to do before bed and is especially difficult early in a trip when the canister is nearly filled to max capacity.
Instead, I spend a fair amount of time before a trip strategically repackaging my food and then compressing it into "layers", semi-organized by day. I've succeeded in packing my bv500 for 8 or 9 days in this manner (w/ around 4,000-5,000+ kcal per day!).
I'd echo your suggestion for PCT through-hikers to use the bv500 and add that it may be a good idea to have at least a 45 or 50L pack to carry it comfortably.
I haven't yet found a truly comfortable way to carry a bv500 in a "real" frameless pack, but imo the ULA Ohm 2.0 (which is pseudo-frameless, having a carbon fiber hoop) carries the larger canister very comfortably in a vertical orientation.
I'm curious how Pa'lante's Desert or MLD's Prophet carries the bv500. (I've scoured BPL and /r/UL but have yet to find anyone speak to this specifically.)
Excellent insights!
For my JMT trip I stored my bear canister (the same as yours) sideways with the lid facing my back. The flat lid was more comfortable against my back than the curved pointy sides because there was more surface area to distribute the weight. I only needed to use a little bit of padding between the lid and the pack so it felt pretty normal when I carried it.
I love all the beautiful locations you've been filming at! Great content, thank you for sharing😊
Thanks for the painting of Mount Jefferson. It looks great in person. Nice composition and nice colours.
I’m always amazed at how ultra light you are able to pack, thanks for sharing 😊
Hiked the Great Divide Trail in Canada last summer using a BV500 for 8 day carries. Used the first method 'cause it would have taken too much time & effort to load/unload everyday! No problems except for the weight. Everyone else used Ursacks - a risk I happily avoided. Glad to have a perfect seat for dinner too.
Brilliant! I just purchased the BV500 and the notion to strap it on top of my MLD Prophet 48L EMPTY makes perfect sense.
Agreed, I use the 500 when I’m in the Sierra. I’ve do the JMT/HST and will be doing the TRT this year. The bigger can is more cumbersome and harder to fit in packs at time but it offers the flexibility of more days between resupply. All that being said, I will likely use my BV 450 on the TRT this year because its a short thru hike with one easy resupply at the half way point the way i have my rout planned.
Thank you very much ! On the AT, the BV500 was inside, but next long trail, will try the second option. Less "tetris game" the morning, and no more wet canister bear inside the backpack.
That's awesome. I have backpacker cache canister. Opening is much smaller so it's not will be convenient to remove everything out every day. It holds enough food for 7 day trips.
One thing that made me giggle was that Jupiter said he wouldn’t want to have to dig around in the pack to find items. The reason it thought it was funny is that he has less than ten separate items in there (once the food is bagged and the ditty sack is packed). It’s not like it’s going to take him more than 5 minutes to unload and reload that backpack.
Oh wow, this is a great video for me. I've got a Wonderland Trail trip planned for later on this year, and the park service recommends a bear can for the sites which don't have a bear box. The permit only allows you to camp at designated sites, so no stealth camping. I've been looking for the best way to get my BV 450 into my MLD Exodus. Thanks for the tips!
Great info. Always enjoy your videos!
Perfect timing, i have the 500 currently, and was kinda unsure how to carry it with a lightweight pack.
*I FEEL SO STUPID* !!! Haha... Prior to this video, i could only think of either full can inside...or full can on top. Didn't like either option. *NEVER* thought about leaving can *EMPTY* during the day... duhhhhhh..... *THANK YOU!!!!*
I get what you are saying on the 2nd method, but I just can't bring myself to have something strapped to the outside of my pack lol. When I'm hiking in the Sierra, I just use a 65L internal frame pack that weighs 33 oz, so I can comfortably bring the BV500.
If I ever buy (not rent) one, I'm going to use Gorilla Glue and attach some loops to the side, for threading the pack strap thru for added security.
The UDAP No Fed Bear canister has a carrying case with loops to thread dual straps through. But it only comes in one size: big and heavy! It's 10" tall, 8" diameter, and weighs 2.4 lbs. I'm going to replace it with a Bare Boxer, which is only a little smaller but 8 oz lighter...so if you know anyone looking for a heavy cumbersome canister...:)
I’ve always filled the can with some of my lighter gear (mid layer, rain jackets etc) and then carried it on top.
new subscriber, i moto camp and backpack into backcountry. your ideas sound great for both activities.
Great job!
That feeling when you eagerly reply to a comment and then notice it's a year old!
Great idea thank you
Great info!
I have a Zpacks arc something or other. Really can't put the can inside the pack. They make a special "V" strap specifically for carrying a bear cannister on top.
I packed my bv 550 in my zpacks Nero and ended up ripping the seams out. Next year I will be using my granite gear Virgo pack in the Sierra's
Thank you for this as I graduate to a frameless pack this year for my last 963 miles of the PCT this summer. One correction, soon after you made it past Sonora Pass, the powers that be changed where you have to carry your bear canister through. You got through before the rule changed so was able (I am assuming) to send your canister home then, but soon after that they made it a requirement to continue carrying them all the way to Donner Pass/Truckee (mile 1,150) because the bears have been so aggressive towards peoples food specifically in the Desolation Wilderness. How do I know this? Because after I got hurt in my thru hike attempt in 2019, I have been going back each year completing large sections although the fires the last two years have stopped me. I was right behind you through this area this year I am mentioning and they changed this rule just days before I got there so I had to continue carrying my BV450 all the way to Truckee. Just wanted you to have the up to date, correct info. Love your videos and enjoyed meeting you at PCT trail days. Cheers Marmalade
Did something very similar with my 38 L Burn in the Sierra. Except during the day I put my quilt inside my bear can to save even more room inside my pack.
I've considered that, but am worried my clothes will smell like food and eliminate the whole benefit.
Wouldn’t that just cover your quilt with food scent, making yourself a target?
Will and I were typing the same thought at the same time, lol.
Great video, I wonder if fashioning a little duct tape loop that you could run the strap through what I had a little bit of insurance from it popping out and falling down a cliff.
No sleeping pad in this pack? Seems like even the thin Gossamer Gear pad would soften the canister. Or did I just miss this?
Packology 405 !!!! Remember new students, the first days food doesn't need to be IN the bear can.... Is that a Parlante Pack?!?!
Gossamer Gear pad works great.
THX 👍
Excellent
I have a V2 and concerned the strap will not fit around my bv450. Your pack is lighter than mine. Have you heard of anyone using an extension strap?
I was thinking that if you were to carry the BV 500 like you mentioned, That's 3.3 more liters of space. So would you then carry a 46 L pack?
Weird. I literally spent the day looking at bear cans and trying to figure out how I would get it in or on my ula ohm.
I’m a newbie camper who lives in bear country. One significant issue with option# 2.
Please ensure you’re using something reasonably airtight. So you don’t unintentionally scent your backpack with food.
They generally don’t see us as food but incidents can happen when they come to investigate the yummy smells.
Bear cans make good seats too. I have a couple.
Jupiter, what's the little tag on top of the "front" pocket of your backpack? Is it an ultralight PCT Hangtag, a tick remover, or a "reward if returned to Jupiter" tag?
It is a junior ranger badge from North Cascades National Park which I got in Stehekin along the PCT for completing the program!
Man you're very close to that edge!
👍❤️👍 thanks brother
Hey, Jupiter! Good video. Just one question. When you carry your food in a food bag inside your pack, any concerns about your pack retaining food smells? The point of a canister is to keep food away from your sleeping area, to protect your food supply and for your safety and the bear's. With a bear's legendary sense of smell, it seems very important to make sure you have a high quality food bag that doesn't release odors into the pack, which you will have next to you while you're sleeping. Three nights ago, while I was stealth tenting near Mount Tripyramid in New Hampshire, a bear attacked my BV450 and bit several holes through the lid. Eventually the bear gave up and my food remained intact. Bear Vault is going to replace it and I think they're going to give me a BV475, which I have been thinking of getting anyway. I am so, so happy I had all my food and smellables in the canister about 150 ft away from me. It was around 11:00 p.m. when I started hearing loud, very scary cracking and crunching noises and didn't even realize it was my canister that was being crunched!
4:25 my brain immediately went to the bear can cracking, but it holds up to bears, so that definitely didn’t happen lol. It’s weird how my brain is trained to know how easy it is to break plastic, but somehow this container holds up against bears lol. I own the BV500, it has always amazes me how durable something made out of plastic can feel.
I've got the Gossamer Gear 42 liter w the removable sit pad - perfect for this type of set up. I never leave home without the bear can - even if not required. Critters got too much of my food. No Mas. It's always neat and tidy inside. The 450 or the 500 leave plenty of room for a full loadout. I save weight everywhere else.
I use Gossamer Gear packs, so I also do the inside method due to lack of a top strap and the fold over "lid" not being conducive to holding a can on top of the packs. The sit pad between between your back and the pack definitely makes it more comfortable, along with strategic packing. I carry my BV inside my Kumo - people often don't believe that I am carrying a can :D
What do you think of the AT conservancy recommendation to use a bear canister there? Would you use one? How would safely avoid using a canister on the AT? (Any tips on preventing food scents to leak out, or special rodent protective gear?)
large volume of hikers = large volume of animals trying to get those hikers food. That's up to you. I would first and foremost avoid all places that others typically camp and congregate as animals have equated those places to food. Avoiding shelters, avoiding popular campsites. I would imagine for the most part as you get north the problem lessens as most quit the AT within the first couple hundred miles. Though there are still areas that are an exception
No way I would use a can on the AT. If you are worried about bears, do a bear hang. The AT is actually one of the few trails that you can do that, due to having the right types of trees along most of the trail. As Jupiter said though, there are a few sections where you might be extra vigilant, The Shenandoah's come to mind, as there are a lot of bears and car and day hikers, the bears in that section are very used to people.
to contain odors, many people use the Loksak OPsak (Odor proof sack) - it's a zip lock bag designed to contain odor. They always seem to fail on me after a few weeks of use, but they work well when new. For rodents, well... bear can, the rodent resistant Ursak, cookie/popcorn tins. Hanging a food bag can work but those little critters can get to the bag if it's not done properly
We live and hike in Montana. We take bears seriously. We use a FoodSaver to vacuum pack our food and use Loksaks to stow the empty bags. The Loksaks really do seem to be odor proof but they need to be replaced frequently. In 2021 a woman ignored bear safety recommendations in Ovando and was killed by a grizzly. The sad thing about that was that they had to kill the bear. Bear canisters, ursacks, bear spray are just facts of life here.
The outside thing: Do Rangers not require that you must Pack everything inside the bear can because of the smell?
I read stories that Rangers in the sierra check if you have food outside your bear can...
Do you think a BV475 would be large enough for the PCT or would you still go with the BV500?
That's what I was curious about too ^
How should anyone know how fast you hike, how many resupplies you plan (which may depend which are open at the time when you pass), and how much you eat? - There is no "one fits all".
I would probably still use the 500. The sierra is cool and it is nice to have the flexibility of carrying more food, and more fun food incase you want to spend more time out there. The size and weight difference isnt so much when it comes to what you will notice, while the internal volume and amount you can carry will be something noticable
I have a small issue with the second option. If you carry your food inside your pack all day it will leave scents so I think it’s better to keep your food in the bear can ALL the time. A bear can is like a car seat belt… you never know…
There’s one thing I’d like to try though. I’d like to install a simple light netting under my pack in which I could put a bear can…?
Good point but maybe use scent proof bags to store food inside the pack while hiking instead of just a normal plastic bag if that is a concern.
Did you end up needing traction or an ice axe in The sierra’s when you hiked the pct? I have a May start date and it’s been an extremely low snow year thus far. I have a fair bit of snow experience climbing 14ers in winter in Colorado and snowshoeing and would like to go as UL as possible. I was debating just sending it all to Kennedy meadows and accessing it then with live updates and send home what I may not need but just wanted to see what your experience was. Also I’m thinking the 475 bear canister may be the move for myself or would you recommend just going the full 500 to have less resupply worries?
I did not, no. Many people still carried them and used them when I was there though. I think with your experience, so long as you have at least a single trekking pole you would be totally fine. I kinda think the 500 for the bear vault is the play. The smaller ones just don't offer any flexibility at all, and kind of force you to make bad decisions. Maybe the 475 would work, but I wouldn't recommend that to others.
@@JupiterHikesalways appreciate the quick response! I’m planning to crush some sierra miles if all goes well and will plan on caloric dense/ compact resupllies using the 475. I was able to do the 14 passes of the collegiate west in 3 days and had a much heavier set up with a nearly 8lb heavier baseweight getting harassed by scattered thunderstorms 😅 pretty excited to put out my first ever gear video soon before I get out there.
Looks like the BV450 to me …. However you mention BV500? Loading the full Bear can on top of the pack defiantly makes the pack top heavy. My preference is the full bear can loaded in the bottom of the pack and the weight of that load on the hips.
Yup! I personally own the 450 but feel that the 500 is by far superior and what the vast majority of people would want. I just don't personally own one
How close to the edge of the cliff is that chair?😅
Too close
Is the second method allowed?
Yeah, so long as you keep it in there at night
@@JupiterHikes thank you, might just do that then :)
I see wayyyyy too many people doing a 3rd thing which is to have their FULL of food bear can strapped to the top. No, that's not what that V-Strap from Zpacks or BC strap from Mountain Smith or whatever was designed for. It's not going to hold 12 lbs of food plus can on top of your pack. It's designed to hold 2 lbs of empty can.
some packs are designed to do that, or even to hold the full can on the very bottom of the pack, but I very much so agree. The vast majority of packs *are not* meant to do that! Store it empty if it's going to be on top.
When I was on the JMT I did the same thing, with the exception that I stored my (wet) tent in the BV. I did ask a park Ranger if it was legal and to my surprise he said that it was not legal to have your food outside of the BV while you were hiking. Thought you might want to know.
"In picnic areas and on the trail: Do not leave your food unattended. Always keep your food within an arm's reach and don't turn your back to your food. Bears may investigate picnic areas or backpacks for food even in your presence, so be alert." from "Yosemite National Park Black Bear Safety". The backpack I wear is within my arm's reach.
This ranger was wrong, or misunderstood your question.
@@Henning_Rech my interpretation of the quote you lifted is it applies to when you are eating. Obviously you have to occasionally take food from the canister and this statement was in deference to the craftiness of bears in general and especially those who are not very afraid of humans. I’ve dealt with this type of bear in the Smokies. Bears don’t give up on a food opportunity easily. I’ve had that experience too. In high threat areas you would be wise to hike with your food inside your can IMO. Don’t know if the Sierras are a high threat area or not. The Smokies and Shenandoah NP are examples of such areas.
@@wanttogo1958 Only Yosemite (and there mostly the touristy area like LYV where you do not pass on the PCT, but do on the JMT) and the Lake Tahoe area have a number of habitated bears. Elsewhere in the Sierra they normally run off if they notice you. Because of 25 years of bear managment with canisters.
You think the bear has X-ray eyes so that he can see if you store your food in the pack within or without a container, and will in the 2nd case raid you and steal your pack from your back? - For the bear your pack smells the same, if with or without bear can.
I must admit that I did a mistake on my first JMT hike, leaving my pack unattended with the bear can inside while I fetched water from a stream a few 100 ft away. When my bottles were filled and I turned around, I saw a bear maybe 50 ft behind me walking towards where I had left my pack. I shouted on him and went back on a semi-circle not to pursue him directly. I was lucky, my pack was not touched. Maybe he had had those X-ray eyes 😉
@@Henning_Rech I’m not sure how you came up with the X-ray eyes comment. I just know what I’ve experienced and while “odor proof” bags help some to minimize the food odors that escape, my view is the habituated bears associate people with a food source and learn quickly enough you are not a threat. If they approach and catch the scent of your food in so called odor proof bags then they can be pretty persistent in trying to separate you from your food. The bags we use are odor proof to a point but remember that we are handling that bag often after handling food. Bears can smell humans up to 20 miles away and their noses are about 100 times more sensitive than a human’s nose so they smell things we can’t. I was camped one night with a friend in the Smokies about 2 miles from a trailhead; we had finished our several day hike and were hiking out the next day. Just as we were drifting off in our tent, as it was raining hard, the tent jerked suddenly like someone or something had tripped on a guyline. My friend said he hadn’t hit the tent; he was nearly asleep and hadn’t even noticed the movement. A short time later I saw lights flashing around in the camp; there were several other hikers who had hiked in for the long weekend (Labor Day). They back lighted a large, probably male, black bear that had run them out of their lean to shelters (made with plastic) and it proceeded to raid their camp area where I suspect they had their food. We had hung ours high in a tree along with anything that smelled. The bear also got another couples food that I don’t think they hung at all; it contained canned meats among other things. It also, presumably, stole their pack outside their tent in which was their car keys. When I cleaned my tent up after that trip I found near the edge of the fly claw marks from that bear. It had clawed at the fly out of curiosity, orneriness, who knows. It left four nice pull holes in the nylon. I would hate to think how that encounter would have ended if we had any food odors in the tent. You can play Russian roulette with your hike and bears if you choose but I carry my food in my canister and choose a method and pack that accommodates that practice. Just remember that they are the ones who are killed if they become too aggressive or worse but we humans are responsible to not create an enticement that leads to that behavior. Enjoy the Sierras. I hope to hike there soon. Managed to spend time in the Winds this past summer.
Good Hack :)
If you have access to it I highly recommend the Ursack Bear Bag. Most parks will allow the bear bag instead of a canister as it meets the same standards. If a bear does get ahold of your bag they'll crush all your food so you definitely want to secure it where a bear cant get to it. But, its a bit easier to pack instead of a solid round canister.
That does not cut it on the PCT. I have read many mixed reviews on the Ursack. On the PCT it’s required it’s a near can. I have alway hung my food and never had any issue. Then again you need a good tree to do that. I hiked for decades sleeping with my food and never had an issue, actually I never knew anyone who had had an issue. Take care
@@mtadams2009 - True true. You've got to have a tall enough, wide enough tree branch. Otherwise carry bear spray and be prepared to fight a bear to protect your food. It also helps TREMENDOUSLY to use the odor proof plastic bags Ursack also makes. In fact unless Im hiking somewhere a canister is required I only use the Loksak odor bags in a drawstring polyester pouch. One time I had my food in a LokSak in a tent I was sharing with a friend. His food was in some regular ziplock plastic bags inside a drawstring pouch. During the daytime a rodent chewed through his tent and into his food bag but didnt touch mine. The odor proof bags by themselves work pretty good at reducing the scent signature enough to keep most animals away.
unfortunately the ursack is not approved for many section on the pct that do require a bear can, otherwise I do own one and would be using it!
Ummmm..is that really a BV500 in the video??? It looks awfully small. The 500's are the size of a small aircraft carrier. Just wondering. Thanks
That is the 450 in the video, but as mentioned the 500 is the better choice
You should see the Bearikade Expedition, a monster vault!
Oh my gosh, go 1.25x for normal conversation pace of a human. Try it. Dude you still sound normal. Great show just Kidding around.
Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Genius LOL. Thanks
Still prefer the beer can… 😂 Well, you‘re right about the BV500 over the BV450!
Filled with some ice, either can double as a makeshift beer coolers! 😉
dont 4get 2 take out ur lunch 4 the day 😂😮
Omg this is genius
👍🐿👍
Yeah boyyyyyy
Don't lean back in that chair!
So glad that i live and hike in Germany, Switzerland & France and don't have to care about bears.
Beautiful countries to hike in for sure, but the sense of true wilderness in N America (Cougars, Bears, Rattlesnakes and all), and especially in Canada, is unparalleled...