Lol in all seriousness I'd love to be able to shave off the weight of my sleeping pad, I'm just not there yet (if ever.) I suspect cold tolerance is built up over time, to a degree. The man is a legend, plain and simple.
@@timbschwartz The irony for me is that I seem to have no problem lounging on my thinlite and falling asleep during the day. But as soon as I’m in a shelter trying to sleep at night, it feels like I’m just laying on the ground. Have you tried Glen Van Peski’s trick of finding/creating a dip in the ground under your butt? There’s a Gossamer Gear shorts series where he explains it. Speaking of legends. That dude still sleep on a thinlite! (With the aid of Tylenol PM)
Even with an ultralight tent, tarps kick ass when you are having a week of rain; the tarps allows you to live outside of your tent covering your cooking area and relaxation area.
Just use a poncho as your rain gear, carry your tent of choice and make a smaller shelter away from your tent for cooking/hanging out in rainy weather.
@Sleepy7666 I'm not a tarp camper (I prefer to shut out mice, ticks, mosquitoes, and spiders), but I do love camping/backpacking year round in the mountains here in Montana with my quilt and tent, including snowy winters. :)
and if you are hiking in the desert, feel free to bring all your favorite fully hydrated foods; you are going to pack the water in one form or another.
@@eringodfrey1196 Quit a few foods that are dehydrated for hiking are fine hydrated and even have alternatives to keep then fresh. For example, lemon juice helps apples and other fresh fruits stay, well, fresh. Sure, it does make it a little more sour, but I personally always liked the added flavor. That’s subjective though, but it’s always an option for some sort of preservation.
Yes. Dehydrated to save weight only makes sense if there's a source of water at or near your overnight camp with which you can rehydrate the food. Weight aside, I generally prefer the taste of "wet" MREs rather than the dehydrated ones.
I was once in a presentation where the word “FAIL” was flipped to be an acronym for “First Attempt In Learning.” I’ve lived by that ever since. At some point, one stops simply parroting someone else’s gear list and begins experimenting with their own ideas on lightening the load. Mistakes are made, sure, but valuable lessons and skills are learned as well. I go on trips specifically designed to try radical ideas. I take my normal gear as a backup, and then take the experimental solution, fully intent on using it. In this way I’m safe to make stupid mistakes, and don’t lose the opportunity to discover breakthroughs of my own. Pushing SOL emergency blankets as a shelter is my current project. I can already see the failure, but am intrigued enough to give it a go in my native Midwest conditions, that I’m all too familiar and experienced with.
Yep, I did the same two summers ago with the cheap and light Costco quilt. It failed as a warm experience around 2:00 A.M., maybe because the weather changed and I was camped at 6,000' (there was frost on the fly before sunrise). Lesson learned, safely.
Really solid points here, Andrew! I keep meaning to bring my foam pad out in these conditions, along with my inflatable as a backup, to see if I can crack the code of making it work. Perhaps I'm hardier than I was a few years back haha
@@timbschwartz funny story. I could never get a Zrest to work, but that 1/8” pad does. I think the texture of a Zrest pad doesn’t work for me, while the foam pad is a flat and even surface.
funny that the reason I prefer quilts over sleeping bags is that I'm active sleeper and inside quilts I can turning around more easily without moving quilt itself
@@timbschwartz I failed my first quilt experience but had found out later it wasn’t the quilt but my fault. I didn’t use the pad straps properly. After adjusting them correctly I now always sleep in a draft free bed. But yes it isn’t for everyone.
I guess it depends on the temperature. I've never used a quilt (I want to but I don't tent backpack enough since I am from NZ and we use our amazing huts instead, plus money) but I'm an ACTIVE sleeper and I often wake up in the night with the hoodie of my sleeping bag to the side or above me and I have to do three of four 360's to untwist everything. In warmer weather I think quilts would be better since it doesn't matter if my active sleeping creates a breeze (and won't twist things up) For colder temperatures (think below 5 degrees celsius) I have never gotten cold in my twisted sleeping bag because there are few openings for the air to go into my sleeping bag - heck I have done mountaineering and slept in below zero conditions and was surprisingly not cold. Not saying you can't do the same in a quilt but I feel for an active sleeper you might be warmer in colder temperatures with a sleeping bag (although you probably won't be as comfortable from what I've heard)
I really enjoyed the conversational tone of this video, and all the interruptions that you left in. It feels so much more relatable that way, especially as a content creator who also has to deal with unexpected noises all the time!
Phew! You didn't mention a camp chair! When I first started backpacking, I had ZERO idea that weight was even a thing to be worried about. My first Big 3 weighed over 15 pounds! Now? MUCH lighter. And tarp with a 1/8" mat is just silly, IMO. I appreciate camp time just as much as trail time, so I'll bring the creature comforts, including that camp chair! My 55 year old bones appreciate not sitting on.a stump or a wet log at camp.
Haha! I haven't picked up a camp chair yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. I'm a big believer that its not about having a single perfect gear list, but more packing for the goals of each individual trip. Sometimes that's lots of walking, and sometimes I want to lounge. I would still love to be able to rock 1/8" foam and a tarp for fast and light trips, but I'm not quite there yet.
That's why it's very useful to use a scale to discover how much weight we carry and how crazy we are lol. It helps to make better choices and remove all extra straps, tags, etc..
Agree, been using tarps since I was a kid and sleep better in them unless there are other people around then the tent is the way to go. Making your own dehydrated meals is a game changer, outside of the obvious benefits just having things spiced the way you like it is a nice boost for the morale in the evening.
Thanks for the comment! I have a dehydrator that I've used a few times to make beef and sweet potatoes, which is not only tasty but pretty good for the bod as well. I'll need to spend more time working on some recipes.
Your channel is awesome. From video subjects to the concise nature in which they are presented with a professional manner, it’s awesome! Underrated backpacking channel of the year!
I like your caveats. Treating subjects categorically is never the path to learning more and becoming better. The more you know, the less you carry. The more you know, the more you know that you don't know everything.
I'm an active sleeper and I also didn't like the EE quilt (Enigma). But a Katabatic quilt has been awesome even in sub-freezing temperature. It's cut and attachment system keeps things well tucked even when I move from side, to back, to side, etc. I like it so much that I now have two (15 and 30 degree).
@@timbschwartz I agree re: Katabatic quilt. A couple of straps keep it secure on my pad, and I can (and do) turn over in it quite a bit. Love my Katabatic.
Yes, backpacking is a constant flux state, always trying something different. Sometimes I make mistakes, other times I find a new bliss. I started back in the '60s with a canvas pack, a steel frying pan and a coffee can for boiling water (sanitation), while wearing Levi's, a wool shirt/jacket, and high-top logging boots. The entire outfit is lighter now, but still just as fun.😊
Haha totally! I remember backpacking in jeans growing up - technical clothing wasn't really something that I was aware existed when I was a kid. I also had these massive Raichle boots (still have them somewhere) that weighed more than my big 3 now lol. Just as much fun as it is today!
Same on the quilt. I wish I got a sleeping bag. The draft around my lower back is annoying. The crow scene following the cars, boats, and planes is hilarious. :)
Glad you enjoyed the video! Good news is, if the quilt continues to not work out, there's always ebay. I've found you can basically get what you paid for most stuff.
I sold outdoor gears a few years. When peoples came to me for an ultralight backpack to go ultralight or such. 1- Congrats, it's a good idea to lighten the weight. 2- The backpack is probably the item you want change at the end. I'll skip a lengty detailed answer but in two words: respect the weight comfort range of a backpack.
Indeed. My computer backpack for an 18" laptop is far more comfortable for long day hiking than ultralightweight packs. I'll gladly sacrifice a little weight for wide padded straps and a nice wide padded back. And I don't need all the bad separators, because it has pockets galore (and even a lightweight rainfly that covers the whole pack). It's too small for camping hiking. I have 3 things I never skimp on: 1. water 2. high energy density snacks 3. a comfortable pack I've experienced a few times when ~2hr hikes became 5hr. Everyone was really glad for just that little bit of energy when we all hit that hunger drained point. I could see peoples faces light up a bit vs weary slog.
Thanks for the honesty, sometimes I feel offended when people are negative about quilts :P But you are 100% right, it all comes down to how you sleep and what your preferences are.
About the quilt part: when I was researching quilts and trying to decide whether to get a quilt or a sleeping bag, I came across an interesting viewpoint from Dan Timmerman, the guy behind Timmermade, who explained that there is a third option that arguably provides the best of both worlds: a false-bottom bag. See his website for a more detailed explanation, but basically, it's like a sleeping bag but with the back part of it (the part that you lie on) being a non-insulated, extremely lightweight fabric. It means you don't have to deal with drafts, and it weighs almost nothing, meaning you save weight relative to a sleeping bag. Plus, I noticed how you said that one of the issues with quilts is that because you're an active sleeper, you had to get a wider quilt to mitigate drafts. If you get a false-bottom bag instead, then you can actually save weight because the insulated part of it doesn't need to be very wide, just wide enough to wrap around the top and sides of your body but no wider. Therefore, a well-made false-bottom bag (such as Timmermade's-I bought the "Serpentes" recently, though I haven't actually tested it out yet) can end up being lighter weight than either a quilt or a sleeping bag. They save weight over a quilt because the insulated portion is less wide, and they save weight over a sleeping bag because the bottom of it isn't insulated. And you don't get drafts. They're pretty cool.
After a few years of thruhiking, I've noticed that people fall into 3 stages or categories, with none of them being bad. 1. The beginner/REI fitted/just enjoying themselves (probably) 2. Discovers Reddit/only cares about weight with no regard to function (the growing phase) 3. The been there done that crowd that doesn't mind a couple extra ounces for comfort or they know how to embrace the discomfort.
I've had a Zenbivy system for about five years. I love it. I usually sleep in a hammock; on those trips, I only need the top quilt. But when I am a groundling, I love having the sheet between me & the mattress.
I like how you edited. Nice. I think the best lesson is to try different things and figure out what works for you. I love my quilt, but it's not for everyone. And I love tents because where I live there are either mosquitos or snow. I would consider trying this tarp I bought if I were in a place that wasn't buggy; otherwise, it's my secondary shelter for rainy days.
This is actually great advice :) I’m just starting out and buying stuff now, my first thoughts were ”Everything must be as light as possible” but when I started actually visualizing how I would be using the equipment I realized that it would be stupid to just take the lightest stuff. I mostly bike out into the forrest near me, so my bike will take most of the weight during transport and i hate sleeping on an uncomfortable tiny pad. So I bought a bigger tent and a wider sleeping pad since I’m going to use it to be comfortable and have fun, not grit my teeth fighting wolves, doing somersaults and punching the badguy.
Thanks for the comment! Glad to hear that you've settled on some gear that works well for you. Like you said, there's rarely a need to go as light as is humanly possible.
Well, what you're describing is camping. Not thru-hiking. Are you putting in 15-20 miles a day on foot? If not, definitely aim for comfort and enjoyment. I did some thru-hiking years back and hated it. Never got to stop and actually enjoy much other than some views. The focus always being on putting in the miles and making time.... something I already did massive amounts of in the Marines. There is value and things to be learned from thru-hiking, but I'm more of a camper/minimalist bushcrafter type that can still put in some miles but there's no real rush and I can stop and smell the flowers anytime I feel like it. Setup camp where I want. Fish. Hunt.. etc
Hey Tim! I really like your intro. You're an example on how people should be on RUclips. And for that, you have my 100% respect. As for the video itself: LOTS of very valuable info, common sense, and shared experience. So much that I'm not only impressed, but very impressed. My motto is from Horace Kephart in 1908: "At the school of woods, there's no graduation day". Again, well done! You're a fresh breath of air on RUclips and a perfect example of what a GOOD "RUclipsr" should be. P.S. I didn't say "...perfect RUclipsr" not knowing how much your hat can extend to ;)
Nice video (including the interruptions)... but I have to say, as an active sleeper I've never looked back after switching to quilts. My first quilt was an EE which I was very hesitant about purchasing at the time, but was so glad I did. Since then I have moved to the Zenbivy system and absolutely LOVE it!! But in the end, everyone has to find what works best for them. There is no right or wrong, just personal preference. 😊
Thanks so much for watching! Agreed, it all comes down to personal preference, and all that really matters is that we're having a good time in the woods.
This is great advice that will help me plan my 2025 A.T. hike. I've got my base weight down to 12-15 lbs but food and water add up fast. Love the comic relief of all the interruptions!
The best sleeping pad ive used is the big agnes rapide sl. Its warm, ez to pack, light and it hugs you when your sleeping due to it higher sizeds. I have the same problem, thinking am going to roll off in the night, the big agnes puts my mind at ease.
Thanks for the comment! I really love the idea of the vertical baffles on that pad, which must help keep you centered on it. Maybe I should pick one up!
I was talking with a friend today where I literally told him, I just really don’t care about weight anymore. So my tent weighs 5 pounds, cool! I’m gonna go sleep in the forest. Ha ha! Loved this Tim!
Haha! Yeah I mean at some point we need to accept that reducing base weight beyond a certain point is more a hobby in itself, with diminish returns. Enjoy that tent - probably a palace!
I love how different it is in different places. This is eye-opening hearing you talk about things like carrying less hydrated food and water because you are near water. Most of my backpacking is high desert Rocky Mountains. We're carrying the water, so whether or not the food is hydrated is irrelevant. Similarly you mentioned the layers.... Out here it's not uncommon for the temps to drop 30 degrees rapidly after sunset, so layers are life. Key takeaway for me: know your terrain, and pack accordingly. I see my normal rocky mountain pack would not be great in your area of the pacific northwest. Keep up the amazing videos!
So glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you so much for watching! Yeah, it really is wild to think about how different the conditions and planning can be in different areas. I'm currently planning a trip with some desert stretches and it's all very new to me. That's a very good point!
Have you tried a hammock? I am also an active sleeper, but I find the in a hammock, I don't toss and turn nearly as much, and because my under quilt cups around my body from underneath, I don't get drafts with my top quilt. I just switched from a tent/ground camping to a hammock setup this year, and I'm enjoying it so far.
I’m also an active sleeper but feel really cramped in sleeping bags, for me the zenbivy ended up being the best of both worlds. I’m going to sell my current one this year and upgrade to the new ultralight version when it goes on sale for Black Friday
I use enigmas when I’m in warm weather and looking to vent…otherwise I’m in a bag. I need to take some time and shake some stupid out of my pack…there’s at least a pound of it in there…
I relate to the consumables issue. Just got back from a 4-day, 75 mile trip. Everything I had read warned about long water carries, and recommended carrying 4-5L of water. What I failed to grasp was that while there were 20 mile stretches with no reliable water sources, there were other stretches where water was plentiful. So rather than figure out when I didn't need more than a liter, I just carried 4L the whole time. Plus, since I knew I'd be doing relatively big miles, I grossly overestimated how much food I needed. For example, I packed 2 packages of chicken and 2 wraps for lunch, and only ate one. I finished with easily 2 days of food left over. So while I had a 8.5lb baseweight, my starting TPW ended up around 25lbs, which was pretty rough with my frameless pack given the mileage and climbs. I could have easily eliminated 5+lbs for much of the trip with better water and food planning.
As an active sleeper, Katabatic quilts are great. The pad attachment system works great and seals drafts very well. I use the regular width and don’t have any issues
I'm a very active sleeper as well and also bought a quilt. I made a similar discovery and use the quilt for warmer times and prefer a sleeping bag for colder camps. Having said that I sleep reeaaaly cold (old guy, circulation problems, and plain spoiled) so most times I'll opt for the sleeping bag. If things get too warm open up the zipper and I have quilt 🙂
I'm a bag man, myself. My terralite is a perfect quilt when unzipped. This along with a pad with a sheet is great in the warmer months. I do use a foam pad UNDER my inflatable pad. The extra weight of the foam pad is inconsequential. It also insures warmth in the cold months.
Nice! I really enjoy using my sleeping bag as a quilt in the warmer months, as well. The Zpacks bags have a zipper on the bottom so that you can open them up. Thanks so much for commenting!
how to fix the draft issue in cold weather; buy a UGQ in the Xwide, its wide enough it wraps under your pad and as you sleep the pad reflects back the heat from the entire enclosed space. If you get the boxed flat foot box you can even slide your whole pad into the quilt footbox for even more sealed air volume.
Great video and great sharing. You probably tried this, but in the rare chance, you haven't... I have an enigma quilt as well. Two small things I learned: pulling a bit of the quilt through the hole at the bottom (after doing it up) and wrapping my quilt around and under my pad and not just around me eliminated all draft even at or below freezing. Apologies if you've tried these things, but if you haven't, they make all the difference for me, for what that's worth.
Nice! I've done the same on a few occasions. Regretted it at least once because I thought I could get away with a blanket and no sleeping pad. Lesson learned haha.
Quilts can be tied with cord or ribbon to create a sleeping bag of sorts, and the under-pad straps keep out most breezes. If I use my tent, I usually don't bother with the straps. On the other hand, long before I knew quilts were a thing, I just slept with my bag unzipped except a footbox... The only real diff is a modest amount of weight for a longer zipper in a bag. I utilize down jacket and pants for warmth and mosquito protection in camp, then top them off with an ultra light quilt to sleep. If needed, I wear down socks on my hands and down camp booties.
Love your channel, just subscribed! The bear bag video alone sold me. For others*: You could have your mind made up about quilts, but if your quilt has loops on the side you can really cinch it down. You are then able to have a dream state wrestling match under there and the quilt won't budge. I felt the same way as you do before learning about those little widgets.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for subscribing! Yeah it seems like everyone has had a different experience with them, and I'll be the first to admit that it may have been user error on my part. To each their own, my friend!
Enlightened Equipment Convert. As an “active sleeper,” bags feel constricted. But occasionally a bag is better, mainly due to temperature, and the Convert lets you zip up when needed.
I’m hiking the pct in a months time Tim, I’m going to really focus on food and water this time. No carrying excess food or water, types of food and what the lightest options are. Plus eating healthier when in towns, instead of just smashing burgers all the time.
Gotta tell you...i know it's hard to do...but the typical diet I see with all these thru hikers is horrible...so much so that I think if they weren't hiking 20 miles a day, but sit in a cubicle and watch Netflix afterwards, they'd turn into flabby, pale blobs...pop tarts, chips, mashed potatoes with 30 ingredients, candies and more candies...
Good luck on your trip! Ever since I developed psoriatic arthritis I've been focusing on eating cleaner on trail and it feels great. I, too, have a big trip coming up, and the struggle of meal planning for optimal health is real haha.
I pack in the Sierra, with tons of streams! I often go with no carry water, just my filter at hand. An hour or two between hydrations is OK. Gotta know there is water ahead, and I keep lots of water in camp.
I agree with your feeling on inflatable pads Tim, always feel like I'm falling off them. Ended up with the REI airrail plus. Its decently bulky, (have a nemo tensor wide for a smaller summer option), but is very warm and the rails help me sleep so much better. Have seen the big agnes rapide be recommended for similar rails minus the extra pack size.
That "high but small pad + quilt combination causing drafts when moving around"-problem does sound familiar 🤔 I do still prefer the quilt becuase I don't get entangled in it, but that's me
I couldn't go through all the comments, so I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this. Try filling your inflatable pad, then lay on your side and let some air out until just before your hip touches the ground. It works for me.
I just got back from hiking the Ocean to Lake trail in Florida - the trail where Jupiter started backpacking and has done over 25 times. I was hammocking, but as I was sleeping in designated campsites I relied on FarOut for intel and one of the campsites had no mention of being hammock compatible. The nice thing about hammocking is that you have a separate tarp, so it wasn’t a lot of added weight to bring an inner ground shelter to suspend underneath and cover myself for ground sleeping (maybe +10 oz for a MLD Serenity bug net (no longer made)). I use a 1/8” pad as an under layer in the hammock down to about 52 F, so I had the perfect excuse to try things Jupiter’s way… one night of bad sleep wouldn’t kill me. If I needed more padding, I would put four segments of a Zrest pad under my torso, which I carry as a pseudo-frame for my frameless ruck. Florida is pretty flat and soft in terms of ground, and I found I actually slept well and didn’t have any kinks in the morning. I’m going to keep experimenting with the 1/8 inch foam pad. My pack weight is light enough that, until I gain skill and confidence, I can always bring my 12oz inflatable as insurance without really noticing it.
I think the 1/8 inch pad can be a viable option for sure, but for me it really just depends on season and campsite. I don't personally mind the lack of padding, it's more about staying warm. I've slept without a sleeping pad in deep summer and been ridiculously comfortable, but that's generally no the norm for me on hard packed (cold) ground.
Awesome video, Tim. Liked your crow double-takes and totally relate to your issues with sleeping bags vs quilts. Thanks for uploading. Notice Jupiter is now using a thermarest and tent - he must be feeling his age (said as much in a comment on one of his recent gear videos). So rude, but then I am older than him. 🫢
Last year 1st time ever, I snowshoe backpacked and carried my 25 degree sleeping bag. It snowed and I knew the temp. I was warm. this year, repeat, cept I had my new EE 10 degree quilt that Ive always wanted and finally got. Same other gear. Same temps. I was cold. Feeling some buyers remorse.
For me (an super active sleeper as well) I feel like quilts are giving me superpowers compared to sleeping bags. Quilts allow me to roll around, side to side, so freely compared to sleeping bags, so I don't even wake up at nights anymore with quilt. I wouldn't say that quilts are not for active sleepers :D
I'm a super active sleeper and have found quilts to be WAY more comfortable and WARMER! I will say that the Zenbivy is absolutely next level though. Try one.
hah! This popped up and my first thought was "Tarp guy has mistakes.. I bet mistake 1 was trying a tent".. lol.. I stand corrected. Good advice and good vid! Consumables is spot on.
I too have struggled with my quilt. It’s a 0 degree EE quilt. It truly is warm to zero degrees, however the draft is annoying, the pad straps are annoying, and I miss having a hood. I moved to a 0 degree quilt from using a heavy xxl Teton sports bag. The weight and space savings is huge, but I do sort of wish I’d made a more modest drop in weight in exchange for getting a cozy good quality 0 degree down bag. The other issue I have is that the quilt is so warm that around 25 degrees I start sweating with basic baselayers but then attempting to vent the quilt it freezes me out. I still have that quilt, I just use a small blanket inside it (ruining my weight savings) in order to fight the drafts
@@timbschwartz now I just have to resist the guilt of not sticking with the lightest option. Truthfully I was pushing pretty hard for UL having gotten summer baseweight down to 12 pounds. Then I realized the sacrifices I was making wasn’t worth it since a 15-20 lb baseweight just isn’t that bad. Maybe I’d change my tune if I really wanted to do 25 mile days
@@charliemcdowell5231 For me personally, nothing magical happens below 10 lbs. I think its probably a great goal for either 1) people that are hiking thousands of miles or 2) people enjoy cutting weight as a hobby (I fall into this camp.) I wouldn't stress the extra few pounds as long as you're having a good time!
for the air pad feeling like "you're tense" I feel that too, like I'm balancing all night. For me I under inflate my pad and pillow it makes me get the sink in I'm looking for
My tip for the neo air mat is to not have it 💯 inflated, I am similar to you bro in that when those air type mats are inflated right up I feel like I'm bouncing around too much and I cant settle and sleep properly. I pump it up and then lay on it and then twist the valve to deflate it to just about the point I'm almost feeling the ground, its super plush like this... 👌
You need to try a Zenbivy bed. I toss and turn a ton. Not only does it keep all the drafts out, it is WAAAAAY more comfortable than any sleeping bag I've ever been in.
I fully share your experience with inflatable pads. I just switched from a regular Thermarest to a Neo-air NXT. I love the lighter weight and small pack size but, having just got back from its "maiden voyage" of five days backpacking through Scotland, I found it SO uncomfortable, for exactly the reason you said; tensing up to avoid slipping off it. I was all set to sell it and go back to the regular Thermarest, but tried putting my waterproof coat over the Neo-air as a cover (anchored by wrapping the sleeves underneath). This stopped the sleeping bag sliding around like eggs in a Teflon pan and made a huge difference to comfort. My wife is now making me a custom cover for the Neo-air out of an old sheet sleeping bag liner. Should be no more than 100 grams additional weight when done. Still a lot lighter than the old Thermarest.
I always wondered how people sleep warmly with quilts. Mind you I hate sleeping bags too because I roll around a lot and I just get tangled up and frustrated.
You most likely know way more than I, but when it comes to specific conditions it can be the opposite. Many RUclipsrs are telling "this is always better than this" and that can be true in there, but maybe just part truth or even a bad advice in here or for my weird fysiology and heat production etc. Good thing that You realize that some of us might know more, keep up the good work 👍
I keep wondering when I am going to go lightweight. All of my gear gets better and better and it just gives me more and more room to put in more stuff it feels like.
My rule of thumb is that a piece of practical equipment can only be tested in a practical setting. Everything looks great when looking online or in videos, it’s only why you use it you get a real sense of what does or doesn’t work, ‘trial and error’ 😊 I also say ‘a piece of kit is only as good as the individual using it’
I just came back from 6 days hike here in the middle of Scotland by the mountains using just foam pad to try out, was close to 0 celsius and kinda crazy, windy, rainy weather...anyway, easy to say - never again lol as side sleeper kinda sucks big time... but its only because my other BA Rapide failed on me, I bought it new and it was leaking air, had to send it back...
Oh man, glad you at least had the backup pad! Yeah I think it really depends on the person. But hey, it's all about experimentation and now you know lol
Thanks for the insights! I always wondered how all these ultralight youtubers do this without carrying any meaningful amount of water. Now I know, many are based in the northwest, if there's water everywhere, it all makes sense! Where I usually hike there's very little possibilities to get water and most springs and little streams are dried up in the summer. So I'm always carrying a lot of weight in water, one evening and morning with two people and a doggy easily consumes 6l (about 2 gallons?).
Thanks for watching! Yeah we're a bit spoiled for water up here - it's nice to not have to think about it too much. I tend to drink quite a bit as well, so I'd be right there with you hauling lots of water if I didn't live here.
Excellent video and list! As much as I have learned over my 25+ years of backpacking, I'm always learning something new. Still, there is just no substitute for experience and learning about yourself and your preferences. E.g. I wish I could go back to carrying just 1L of water like I did in the 1990s but I know I'm a "freak" about hydration and the more I drink, the better I feel. That's just my M.O.
Western Mountaineering bags, no brainer. Tarps, went through that phase 35 years ago for light weight until mosquitos and tarantulas changed my mindset. Now, Tarptent Protrail model.
@@timbschwartz I've had several of them. No matter what the reputation, they are still "just a sleeping bag" so if you toss and turn, you will end up with a hoody on top of your face and compressed "down" on top of you making you cold...
I once went hiking with the guy who showed up with the cooler full of frozen chicken breasts. The ice, of course, ended up melting and getting raw chicken chicken juice all over their food. His wife actually left him shortly after.
Picking a tent site because it’s “pretty” and avoiding “bugs and people”. Relatable. 😄 Seriously, I prefer late autumn or winter to avoid the bugs and people issues. Plus it’s pretty.
...."PNW needs include a bug-net and a ground sheet, your tarp set up approaches the weight of a very very light tent'. I'm still in awe zpacks type setups can be sub 20z. i grew up in time when 4 pounds was light, and a 2.5 pound bivy/tarp was magical. The technological jump from the late 90s shocks me.
Thanks for the comment! I know, it really is wild how light they've become. I love using tarps, but at some point I had to come to grips with the fact that they're no longer a massive weight advantage. Still lots of benefits though, not the least of which is much less condensation to deal with.
My friend dehydrates canned chicken breast for trail. We love to to take shelled sunflower seeds on trail. It adds protein, fat and crunch to anything. So yummy. Parmesan cheese is a good one to take also. 2.2 lbs per liter of water. So dang heavy!
As far as water goes, if you don't anticipate a water source on your hike drink a good bit BEFORE you hike. On over nights or long hikes take a water filter. There are other factors but a water filter is a great asset to carry.
The woodland background with a papercup, plastic lid, coffee confuses me. Is there a starbucks next to that park table or did you drive your purchased coffee to the forest for ambience?
Agreed on quilts. I am such an active sleeper that I don't bother with a pillow at all on trail, because it's not going to stay under my head for long anyway. Even when I'm not on trail, when I wake up in my ordinary bed at home, every morning it looks like a tornado hit it. This morning, the sheet was in a godforsaken tight ropy wad that I was partially laying on top of, the comforter somehow was flipped at an angle (the "foot" of it was sort of upward to my left and not towards my feet at all) and the overquilt was half on the bed and half in the floor... lol. One pillow was in the far corner of the bed, and the other had fallen off the bed and was laying next to my bedroom garbage can. I've always been like this, even as a little kid. My mother used to say that my bed always looked like a dogbed in the morning. :/ I have the Western Mountaineering Terralite, and it is WONDERFUL. It is very warm and snuggly, and roomier than the usual mummy bag so I don't get cold spots from my thrashing (if a bag is stretched tight enough, the loft will compress and create cold spots). If I get cold at all, it will be because I've somehow wiggled off the sleeping pad completely and am sleeping in a wad on the floor of the tent (which has happened before... sigh). Anyhow, I recommend it.
I think it’s good to be flexible and use the kit that is right for the trip you’re doing at that. I use a quilt but when it gets cold in the fall and I am hiking in the Whites of NH it’s back to my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. I think Jupiter can do what he does because he hikes a lot of long distances and your body just hardens over time. I do a lot of long distance backpacking and I have never seen anyone use that thin pad he uses to sleep on, to be honest I never see anyone use a tarp either. DCF tents I think do it all. Food is a huge issue and I have worked to carry just what I need. I like getting to my resupply with next to nothing left in my food bag. Take care
Completely agree! Flexibility is key, and it's less about having a one size fits all gear list and more about packing for the trip. Thanks for the comment!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I like how we all say “I wish I could be like Jupiter” and Jupiter always says “This is probably not a good idea for most people”.
Even Jupiter doesn't want to be Jupiter.
Lol in all seriousness I'd love to be able to shave off the weight of my sleeping pad, I'm just not there yet (if ever.) I suspect cold tolerance is built up over time, to a degree.
The man is a legend, plain and simple.
@@timbschwartz The irony for me is that I seem to have no problem lounging on my thinlite and falling asleep during the day. But as soon as I’m in a shelter trying to sleep at night, it feels like I’m just laying on the ground.
Have you tried Glen Van Peski’s trick of finding/creating a dip in the ground under your butt? There’s a Gossamer Gear shorts series where he explains it. Speaking of legends. That dude still sleep on a thinlite! (With the aid of Tylenol PM)
Showing my age. I was thinking "who's Jupiter, is that a nickname for Ray Jardine?".
@@peterscott2662 JupiterHikes you should really check him out. He has an interesting mindset about hiking and gear.
Even with an ultralight tent, tarps kick ass when you are having a week of rain; the tarps allows you to live outside of your tent covering your cooking area and relaxation area.
Thanks for the comment! Completely agree - the livable space under a tarp is unmatched.
Yeah even a little thing just covering the entry so you can have it open in the rain 🙂
That until you learn to make a bulletproof setup... A tent + tarp.
Just use a poncho as your rain gear, carry your tent of choice and make a smaller shelter away from your tent for cooking/hanging out in rainy weather.
If you're sleeping in a hammock the tarp was always the always.
You poked the quilt people AND the tarp people in the same video?!?
I admire your courage, sir. 😉
Haha wish me luck! Thanks for watching :)
LOL!! 🤣
You know what we call quilt and tarp people in the Great Lakes region?
Nearly unalived by mother nature nine months outta the year.
@Sleepy7666 I'm not a tarp camper (I prefer to shut out mice, ticks, mosquitoes, and spiders), but I do love camping/backpacking year round in the mountains here in Montana with my quilt and tent, including snowy winters. :)
@@OutHereMontana yeah we got mosquitoes the size of the eagles from LOTR here in Wisconsin....
and if you are hiking in the desert, feel free to bring all your favorite fully hydrated foods; you are going to pack the water in one form or another.
Thats a really solid point! I hadn't thought of that, so thanks for sharing!
Isn’t some aspect of dehydration about preservation?
@@eringodfrey1196 Quit a few foods that are dehydrated for hiking are fine hydrated and even have alternatives to keep then fresh. For example, lemon juice helps apples and other fresh fruits stay, well, fresh. Sure, it does make it a little more sour, but I personally always liked the added flavor. That’s subjective though, but it’s always an option for some sort of preservation.
Yes. Dehydrated to save weight only makes sense if there's a source of water at or near your overnight camp with which you can rehydrate the food. Weight aside, I generally prefer the taste of "wet" MREs rather than the dehydrated ones.
Awwww thats cute you think desert means that there is no water around... that is rarely true.
I was once in a presentation where the word “FAIL” was flipped to be an acronym for “First Attempt In Learning.”
I’ve lived by that ever since.
At some point, one stops simply parroting someone else’s gear list and begins experimenting with their own ideas on lightening the load. Mistakes are made, sure, but valuable lessons and skills are learned as well.
I go on trips specifically designed to try radical ideas. I take my normal gear as a backup, and then take the experimental solution, fully intent on using it.
In this way I’m safe to make stupid mistakes, and don’t lose the opportunity to discover breakthroughs of my own.
Pushing SOL emergency blankets as a shelter is my current project. I can already see the failure, but am intrigued enough to give it a go in my native Midwest conditions, that I’m all too familiar and experienced with.
Yep, I did the same two summers ago with the cheap and light Costco quilt. It failed as a warm experience around 2:00 A.M., maybe because the weather changed and I was camped at 6,000' (there was frost on the fly before sunrise). Lesson learned, safely.
@@memathews Double Black Diamond!!! My wife uses that quilt (after a footbox mod) for down to 50F with her puffy as a backup extra layer.
@@andymytys Yep, that's the one! That makes sense on a 50° night, it just didn't work for me below 40°
Really solid points here, Andrew! I keep meaning to bring my foam pad out in these conditions, along with my inflatable as a backup, to see if I can crack the code of making it work. Perhaps I'm hardier than I was a few years back haha
@@timbschwartz funny story. I could never get a Zrest to work, but that 1/8” pad does. I think the texture of a Zrest pad doesn’t work for me, while the foam pad is a flat and even surface.
funny that the reason I prefer quilts over sleeping bags is that I'm active sleeper and inside quilts I can turning around more easily without moving quilt itself
Haha! Yeah I suppose it really depends on the person. Thanks for watching!
My reason exactly. A sleeping bag leaves me tied in knots. Adding a bivy to a quilt avoids drafts and lets me roll around
@@timbschwartz I failed my first quilt experience but had found out later it wasn’t the quilt but my fault. I didn’t use the pad straps properly. After adjusting them correctly I now always sleep in a draft free bed. But yes it isn’t for everyone.
Same! I have the 10 Enigma and am also a thrasher and it’s been great well well below freezing.
I guess it depends on the temperature. I've never used a quilt (I want to but I don't tent backpack enough since I am from NZ and we use our amazing huts instead, plus money) but I'm an ACTIVE sleeper and I often wake up in the night with the hoodie of my sleeping bag to the side or above me and I have to do three of four 360's to untwist everything. In warmer weather I think quilts would be better since it doesn't matter if my active sleeping creates a breeze (and won't twist things up)
For colder temperatures (think below 5 degrees celsius) I have never gotten cold in my twisted sleeping bag because there are few openings for the air to go into my sleeping bag - heck I have done mountaineering and slept in below zero conditions and was surprisingly not cold.
Not saying you can't do the same in a quilt but I feel for an active sleeper you might be warmer in colder temperatures with a sleeping bag (although you probably won't be as comfortable from what I've heard)
I agree about quilts, the draft wakes me up, but I'm glad they're there for people who like them
Totally! As long as folks are enjoying themselves :) Thanks for watching!
I really enjoyed the conversational tone of this video, and all the interruptions that you left in. It feels so much more relatable that way, especially as a content creator who also has to deal with unexpected noises all the time!
Thanks so much, Ruth! I appreciate the comment!
and don't forget his wise words at the beginning.
Phew! You didn't mention a camp chair!
When I first started backpacking, I had ZERO idea that weight was even a thing to be worried about. My first Big 3 weighed over 15 pounds! Now? MUCH lighter. And tarp with a 1/8" mat is just silly, IMO. I appreciate camp time just as much as trail time, so I'll bring the creature comforts, including that camp chair! My 55 year old bones appreciate not sitting on.a stump or a wet log at camp.
And I like my DCF stuff sacks to help keep me organized.
Haha! I haven't picked up a camp chair yet, but I'm sure I will at some point. I'm a big believer that its not about having a single perfect gear list, but more packing for the goals of each individual trip. Sometimes that's lots of walking, and sometimes I want to lounge. I would still love to be able to rock 1/8" foam and a tarp for fast and light trips, but I'm not quite there yet.
@@timbschwartz Absolutely! I always have different plans in mind when I go out - and bring whatever I may need for that particular trip.
That's why it's very useful to use a scale to discover how much weight we carry and how crazy we are lol. It helps to make better choices and remove all extra straps, tags, etc..
Agree, been using tarps since I was a kid and sleep better in them unless there are other people around then the tent is the way to go. Making your own dehydrated meals is a game changer, outside of the obvious benefits just having things spiced the way you like it is a nice boost for the morale in the evening.
Thanks for the comment! I have a dehydrator that I've used a few times to make beef and sweet potatoes, which is not only tasty but pretty good for the bod as well. I'll need to spend more time working on some recipes.
Your channel is awesome. From video subjects to the concise nature in which they are presented with a professional manner, it’s awesome! Underrated backpacking channel of the year!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I really appreciate you!
I like your caveats. Treating subjects categorically is never the path to learning more and becoming better.
The more you know, the less you carry. The more you know, the more you know that you don't know everything.
So glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks so much for watching
This video is a breath of fresh air due to the down to earth approach and realisme for the more relaxed and occasional backpacker. Well done!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
I'm an active sleeper and I also didn't like the EE quilt (Enigma). But a Katabatic quilt has been awesome even in sub-freezing temperature. It's cut and attachment system keeps things well tucked even when I move from side, to back, to side, etc. I like it so much that I now have two (15 and 30 degree).
Thanks for the tip! I've always been interested in picking up some gear from Katabatic - I hear great things.
@@timbschwartz I agree re: Katabatic quilt. A couple of straps keep it secure on my pad, and I can (and do) turn over in it quite a bit. Love my Katabatic.
Yes, backpacking is a constant flux state, always trying something different. Sometimes I make mistakes, other times I find a new bliss. I started back in the '60s with a canvas pack, a steel frying pan and a coffee can for boiling water (sanitation), while wearing Levi's, a wool shirt/jacket, and high-top logging boots. The entire outfit is lighter now, but still just as fun.😊
Haha totally! I remember backpacking in jeans growing up - technical clothing wasn't really something that I was aware existed when I was a kid. I also had these massive Raichle boots (still have them somewhere) that weighed more than my big 3 now lol. Just as much fun as it is today!
Same on the quilt. I wish I got a sleeping bag. The draft around my lower back is annoying. The crow scene following the cars, boats, and planes is hilarious. :)
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Good news is, if the quilt continues to not work out, there's always ebay. I've found you can basically get what you paid for most stuff.
I sold outdoor gears a few years. When peoples came to me for an ultralight backpack to go ultralight or such.
1- Congrats, it's a good idea to lighten the weight.
2- The backpack is probably the item you want change at the end. I'll skip a lengty detailed answer but in two words: respect the weight comfort range of a backpack.
Great points! I normally tell friends to swap out their pack last for this exact reason. Thanks for commenting!
There is more then 1 pack for multiple types of trips...
You don't need a 70-10 on a day hike.
Indeed. My computer backpack for an 18" laptop is far more comfortable for long day hiking than ultralightweight packs. I'll gladly sacrifice a little weight for wide padded straps and a nice wide padded back. And I don't need all the bad separators, because it has pockets galore (and even a lightweight rainfly that covers the whole pack).
It's too small for camping hiking.
I have 3 things I never skimp on:
1. water
2. high energy density snacks
3. a comfortable pack
I've experienced a few times when ~2hr hikes became 5hr. Everyone was really glad for just that little bit of energy when we all hit that hunger drained point. I could see peoples faces light up a bit vs weary slog.
Guillaume... North Face au centre-ville de Montréal?
Thanks for the honesty, sometimes I feel offended when people are negative about quilts :P But you are 100% right, it all comes down to how you sleep and what your preferences are.
Thanks for watching! Yep, different gear for different people. Besides this is RUclips, the more I change my mind the more videos I can make :P
About the quilt part: when I was researching quilts and trying to decide whether to get a quilt or a sleeping bag, I came across an interesting viewpoint from Dan Timmerman, the guy behind Timmermade, who explained that there is a third option that arguably provides the best of both worlds: a false-bottom bag. See his website for a more detailed explanation, but basically, it's like a sleeping bag but with the back part of it (the part that you lie on) being a non-insulated, extremely lightweight fabric. It means you don't have to deal with drafts, and it weighs almost nothing, meaning you save weight relative to a sleeping bag. Plus, I noticed how you said that one of the issues with quilts is that because you're an active sleeper, you had to get a wider quilt to mitigate drafts. If you get a false-bottom bag instead, then you can actually save weight because the insulated part of it doesn't need to be very wide, just wide enough to wrap around the top and sides of your body but no wider. Therefore, a well-made false-bottom bag (such as Timmermade's-I bought the "Serpentes" recently, though I haven't actually tested it out yet) can end up being lighter weight than either a quilt or a sleeping bag. They save weight over a quilt because the insulated portion is less wide, and they save weight over a sleeping bag because the bottom of it isn't insulated. And you don't get drafts. They're pretty cool.
Love this! I’ll have to check it out. I’ve quilted my bag probably 15/16 nights on the PCT so far
A lot of good advice Tim! I can definitely relate to your comments on a tarp vs tent.
After a few years of thruhiking, I've noticed that people fall into 3 stages or categories, with none of them being bad.
1. The beginner/REI fitted/just enjoying themselves (probably)
2. Discovers Reddit/only cares about weight with no regard to function (the growing phase)
3. The been there done that crowd that doesn't mind a couple extra ounces for comfort or they know how to embrace the discomfort.
Really solid points here! Thanks for watching :)
That sums it up! So accurate. 🤭
10:00 honestly that crow was giving really good UL advice 😂
Haha! Thanks for watching!
The zenbivy quilt system is super nice. It has a clip in sheet that prevents drafts. I have the light bed and the ultralight set.
I've had a Zenbivy system for about five years. I love it. I usually sleep in a hammock; on those trips, I only need the top quilt. But when I am a groundling, I love having the sheet between me & the mattress.
Everyone seems to love their Zenbivys! I'll need to check it out :)
I like how you edited. Nice. I think the best lesson is to try different things and figure out what works for you. I love my quilt, but it's not for everyone. And I love tents because where I live there are either mosquitos or snow. I would consider trying this tarp I bought if I were in a place that wasn't buggy; otherwise, it's my secondary shelter for rainy days.
Thanks for watching!
This is actually great advice :)
I’m just starting out and buying stuff now, my first thoughts were ”Everything must be as light as possible” but when I started actually visualizing how I would be using the equipment I realized that it would be stupid to just take the lightest stuff. I mostly bike out into the forrest near me, so my bike will take most of the weight during transport and i hate sleeping on an uncomfortable tiny pad. So I bought a bigger tent and a wider sleeping pad since I’m going to use it to be comfortable and have fun, not grit my teeth fighting wolves, doing somersaults and punching the badguy.
Thanks for the comment! Glad to hear that you've settled on some gear that works well for you. Like you said, there's rarely a need to go as light as is humanly possible.
Well, what you're describing is camping. Not thru-hiking. Are you putting in 15-20 miles a day on foot? If not, definitely aim for comfort and enjoyment.
I did some thru-hiking years back and hated it. Never got to stop and actually enjoy much other than some views. The focus always being on putting in the miles and making time.... something I already did massive amounts of in the Marines.
There is value and things to be learned from thru-hiking, but I'm more of a camper/minimalist bushcrafter type that can still put in some miles but there's no real rush and I can stop and smell the flowers anytime I feel like it. Setup camp where I want. Fish. Hunt.. etc
Tents are now very light. I was the same, tarp or die. I now use a mid style tent
Works
Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching, and glad we agree!
Hey Tim!
I really like your intro. You're an example on how people should be on RUclips. And for that, you have my 100% respect.
As for the video itself: LOTS of very valuable info, common sense, and shared experience. So much that I'm not only impressed, but very impressed. My motto is from Horace Kephart in 1908: "At the school of woods, there's no graduation day".
Again, well done! You're a fresh breath of air on RUclips and a perfect example of what a GOOD "RUclipsr" should be.
P.S. I didn't say "...perfect RUclipsr" not knowing how much your hat can extend to ;)
Thank you so much for saying so! This means a lot :)
I kept waiting for the crow and wasn’t disappointed 🤣
Great point about just leaving useless extra stuff at home. Fun and practical video. Thanks!
Thanks so much for watching, and glad you enjoyed it!
Nice video (including the interruptions)... but I have to say, as an active sleeper I've never looked back after switching to quilts. My first quilt was an EE which I was very hesitant about purchasing at the time, but was so glad I did. Since then I have moved to the Zenbivy system and absolutely LOVE it!! But in the end, everyone has to find what works best for them. There is no right or wrong, just personal preference. 😊
Thanks so much for watching! Agreed, it all comes down to personal preference, and all that really matters is that we're having a good time in the woods.
Zenbivy is amazing!
This is great advice that will help me plan my 2025 A.T. hike. I've got my base weight down to 12-15 lbs but food and water add up fast. Love the comic relief of all the interruptions!
So glad you enjoyed it! Good luck with your hike!
LOVE THIS...I can so relate!!! You made me chuckle.
The best sleeping pad ive used is the big agnes rapide sl. Its warm, ez to pack, light and it hugs you when your sleeping due to it higher sizeds. I have the same problem, thinking am going to roll off in the night, the big agnes puts my mind at ease.
Thanks for the comment! I really love the idea of the vertical baffles on that pad, which must help keep you centered on it. Maybe I should pick one up!
Energy bars are basically clay. Made me laugh and nearly spit my lunch out. Love it. And the damn crow 😅
Haha glad I was able to provide some entertainment!
I was talking with a friend today where I literally told him, I just really don’t care about weight anymore. So my tent weighs 5 pounds, cool! I’m gonna go sleep in the forest. Ha ha! Loved this Tim!
Haha! Yeah I mean at some point we need to accept that reducing base weight beyond a certain point is more a hobby in itself, with diminish returns. Enjoy that tent - probably a palace!
I love how different it is in different places. This is eye-opening hearing you talk about things like carrying less hydrated food and water because you are near water. Most of my backpacking is high desert Rocky Mountains. We're carrying the water, so whether or not the food is hydrated is irrelevant. Similarly you mentioned the layers.... Out here it's not uncommon for the temps to drop 30 degrees rapidly after sunset, so layers are life.
Key takeaway for me: know your terrain, and pack accordingly. I see my normal rocky mountain pack would not be great in your area of the pacific northwest.
Keep up the amazing videos!
So glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you so much for watching!
Yeah, it really is wild to think about how different the conditions and planning can be in different areas. I'm currently planning a trip with some desert stretches and it's all very new to me.
That's a very good point!
Great video! Always one of my favorite content creators
Thank you so much for the kind words, Mark! That means a lot :)
Have you tried a hammock? I am also an active sleeper, but I find the in a hammock, I don't toss and turn nearly as much, and because my under quilt cups around my body from underneath, I don't get drafts with my top quilt. I just switched from a tent/ground camping to a hammock setup this year, and I'm enjoying it so far.
Hi! I do own one, I just don't use it super often. I need to spend more time in it. Thanks for the comment!
Experience Is The Best Teacher.
To know precisely what to have and how to use it is go out with nothing but a notebook and pen.
I’m also an active sleeper but feel really cramped in sleeping bags, for me the zenbivy ended up being the best of both worlds. I’m going to sell my current one this year and upgrade to the new ultralight version when it goes on sale for Black Friday
Thanks for sharing! I keep hearing good things about the Zenbivy, so I should check it out a some point.
I use enigmas when I’m in warm weather and looking to vent…otherwise I’m in a bag. I need to take some time and shake some stupid out of my pack…there’s at least a pound of it in there…
Hahaha!
Yeah I'd still like to get one again for summer. Some day.
Thanks for the comment!
I relate to the consumables issue. Just got back from a 4-day, 75 mile trip. Everything I had read warned about long water carries, and recommended carrying 4-5L of water. What I failed to grasp was that while there were 20 mile stretches with no reliable water sources, there were other stretches where water was plentiful. So rather than figure out when I didn't need more than a liter, I just carried 4L the whole time.
Plus, since I knew I'd be doing relatively big miles, I grossly overestimated how much food I needed. For example, I packed 2 packages of chicken and 2 wraps for lunch, and only ate one. I finished with easily 2 days of food left over.
So while I had a 8.5lb baseweight, my starting TPW ended up around 25lbs, which was pretty rough with my frameless pack given the mileage and climbs. I could have easily eliminated 5+lbs for much of the trip with better water and food planning.
Thanks for sharing! I suppose it beats the alternative of not having enough water :)
Well all I can think is it's better to have it and not need it.
love the humility and honesty.
Thank you for the kind words!
As an active sleeper, Katabatic quilts are great. The pad attachment system works great and seals drafts very well. I use the regular width and don’t have any issues
Thanks for the tip! I haven't purchased anything from Katabatic yet, but I hear really great things!
I'm a very active sleeper as well and also bought a quilt. I made a similar discovery and use the quilt for warmer times and prefer a sleeping bag for colder camps. Having said that I sleep reeaaaly cold (old guy, circulation problems, and plain spoiled) so most times I'll opt for the sleeping bag. If things get too warm open up the zipper and I have quilt 🙂
I'm glad it's not just me then! Thanks so much for watching :)
I live in Arizona and water can be hard to find. Taking food you don't have to hydrate can be beneficial.😊
I'm a bag man, myself. My terralite is a perfect quilt when unzipped. This along with a pad with a sheet is great in the warmer months.
I do use a foam pad UNDER my inflatable pad. The extra weight of the foam pad is inconsequential.
It also insures warmth in the cold months.
Nice! I really enjoy using my sleeping bag as a quilt in the warmer months, as well. The Zpacks bags have a zipper on the bottom so that you can open them up. Thanks so much for commenting!
how to fix the draft issue in cold weather; buy a UGQ in the Xwide, its wide enough it wraps under your pad and as you sleep the pad reflects back the heat from the entire enclosed space. If you get the boxed flat foot box you can even slide your whole pad into the quilt footbox for even more sealed air volume.
Thanks for the tip!
Great video!
I am planning to get out there a lot more this year.
Thanks for watching, Jeffrey! Enjoy your trips this year!
Great video and great sharing.
You probably tried this, but in the rare chance, you haven't... I have an enigma quilt as well. Two small things I learned: pulling a bit of the quilt through the hole at the bottom (after doing it up) and wrapping my quilt around and under my pad and not just around me eliminated all draft even at or below freezing. Apologies if you've tried these things, but if you haven't, they make all the difference for me, for what that's worth.
Thanks for the tip, and thanks so much for watching!
Ive got a nice lightweight blanket (quilt) that I use instead of my sleeping bag when the weather is really warm.
Nice! I've done the same on a few occasions. Regretted it at least once because I thought I could get away with a blanket and no sleeping pad. Lesson learned haha.
Quilts can be tied with cord or ribbon to create a sleeping bag of sorts, and the under-pad straps keep out most breezes. If I use my tent, I usually don't bother with the straps.
On the other hand, long before I knew quilts were a thing, I just slept with my bag unzipped except a footbox...
The only real diff is a modest amount of weight for a longer zipper in a bag.
I utilize down jacket and pants for warmth and mosquito protection in camp, then top them off with an ultra light quilt to sleep. If needed, I wear down socks on my hands and down camp booties.
Hey Tim, cool video as always. I like that you show the distractions, makes it more personal. Nice to hear about your evolution. 👍🏾
Thanks so much for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the slightly different tone of this video. It's fun to mix it up.
Love your channel, just subscribed! The bear bag video alone sold me.
For others*: You could have your mind made up about quilts, but if your quilt has loops on the side you can really cinch it down. You are then able to have a dream state wrestling match under there and the quilt won't budge. I felt the same way as you do before learning about those little widgets.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for subscribing! Yeah it seems like everyone has had a different experience with them, and I'll be the first to admit that it may have been user error on my part. To each their own, my friend!
I'm a relatively new backpacker, it was my mid-life crisis thing, and I was greatly entertained by this video. New sub here.
So glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching!
Enlightened Equipment Convert. As an “active sleeper,” bags feel constricted. But occasionally a bag is better, mainly due to temperature, and the Convert lets you zip up when needed.
Thanks for the tip! I believe that's the model my wife has but I'll have to check.
I’m hiking the pct in a months time Tim, I’m going to really focus on food and water this time. No carrying excess food or water, types of food and what the lightest options are. Plus eating healthier when in towns, instead of just smashing burgers all the time.
Gotta tell you...i know it's hard to do...but the typical diet I see with all these thru hikers is horrible...so much so that I think if they weren't hiking 20 miles a day, but sit in a cubicle and watch Netflix afterwards, they'd turn into flabby, pale blobs...pop tarts, chips, mashed potatoes with 30 ingredients, candies and more candies...
Good luck on your trip! Ever since I developed psoriatic arthritis I've been focusing on eating cleaner on trail and it feels great.
I, too, have a big trip coming up, and the struggle of meal planning for optimal health is real haha.
I pack in the Sierra, with tons of streams! I often go with no carry water, just my filter at hand. An hour or two between hydrations is OK.
Gotta know there is water ahead, and I keep lots of water in camp.
Great points! Thanks for watching!
I agree with your feeling on inflatable pads Tim, always feel like I'm falling off them. Ended up with the REI airrail plus. Its decently bulky, (have a nemo tensor wide for a smaller summer option), but is very warm and the rails help me sleep so much better. Have seen the big agnes rapide be recommended for similar rails minus the extra pack size.
Thanks for watching, and thanks for the pad suggestions! Yeah maybe it's just the neoairs, specifically. I'll take a look at the ones you recommended!
I can literally survive on snickers bars indefinitely. I have stopped packing tons of food in favor of honey stingers and snickers. So good.
Dude sooooo good. Unfortunately can’t eat snickers anymore, and I miss them so much!
That "high but small pad + quilt combination causing drafts when moving around"-problem does sound familiar 🤔
I do still prefer the quilt becuase I don't get entangled in it, but that's me
Good point! Lots of folks seem to like them for that reason. Thanks for watching!
It all boils down to being sensible and safe. Looking/being cool comes at many costs and isn't worth it in the end.
Well said!
I couldn't go through all the comments, so I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this. Try filling your inflatable pad, then lay on your side and let some air out until just before your hip touches the ground. It works for me.
I just got back from hiking the Ocean to Lake trail in Florida - the trail where Jupiter started backpacking and has done over 25 times.
I was hammocking, but as I was sleeping in designated campsites I relied on FarOut for intel and one of the campsites had no mention of being hammock compatible.
The nice thing about hammocking is that you have a separate tarp, so it wasn’t a lot of added weight to bring an inner ground shelter to suspend underneath and cover myself for ground sleeping (maybe +10 oz for a MLD Serenity bug net (no longer made)).
I use a 1/8” pad as an under layer in the hammock down to about 52 F, so I had the perfect excuse to try things Jupiter’s way… one night of bad sleep wouldn’t kill me.
If I needed more padding, I would put four segments of a Zrest pad under my torso, which I carry as a pseudo-frame for my frameless ruck.
Florida is pretty flat and soft in terms of ground, and I found I actually slept well and didn’t have any kinks in the morning.
I’m going to keep experimenting with the 1/8 inch foam pad. My pack weight is light enough that, until I gain skill and confidence, I can always bring my 12oz inflatable as insurance without really noticing it.
I think the 1/8 inch pad can be a viable option for sure, but for me it really just depends on season and campsite. I don't personally mind the lack of padding, it's more about staying warm. I've slept without a sleeping pad in deep summer and been ridiculously comfortable, but that's generally no the norm for me on hard packed (cold) ground.
Awesome video, Tim. Liked your crow double-takes and totally relate to your issues with sleeping bags vs quilts. Thanks for uploading. Notice Jupiter is now using a thermarest and tent - he must be feeling his age (said as much in a comment on one of his recent gear videos). So rude, but then I am older than him. 🫢
So glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah I've really been enjoying his recent videos on new gear.
Well Done Tim. Thanks for keeping it real.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)
Last year 1st time ever, I snowshoe backpacked and carried my 25 degree sleeping bag. It snowed and I knew the temp. I was warm. this year, repeat, cept I had my new EE 10 degree quilt that Ive always wanted and finally got. Same other gear. Same temps. I was cold. Feeling some buyers remorse.
I've totally been there. Any chance the humidity was different? I've found that makes a huge difference.
For me (an super active sleeper as well) I feel like quilts are giving me superpowers compared to sleeping bags. Quilts allow me to roll around, side to side, so freely compared to sleeping bags, so I don't even wake up at nights anymore with quilt. I wouldn't say that quilts are not for active sleepers :D
Thanks for the comment! More just not for me I suppose, although who knows - I may try a quilt at some point again and love it.
We all want to be like Jupiter 🥲
"Just think of the weight savings!"
Ain't it the truth!
Not me :-)
Too old to be like Jupiter. Air pad if I expect to walk the next day.
How is he dealing with mosquitoes really?
I'm a super active sleeper and have found quilts to be WAY more comfortable and WARMER! I will say that the Zenbivy is absolutely next level though. Try one.
Thanks for the comment! I'll check it out!
hah! This popped up and my first thought was "Tarp guy has mistakes.. I bet mistake 1 was trying a tent".. lol.. I stand corrected. Good advice and good vid! Consumables is spot on.
Haha! No I still love the tent. So glad you enjoyed the video!
I too have struggled with my quilt. It’s a 0 degree EE quilt. It truly is warm to zero degrees, however the draft is annoying, the pad straps are annoying, and I miss having a hood. I moved to a 0 degree quilt from using a heavy xxl Teton sports bag. The weight and space savings is huge, but I do sort of wish I’d made a more modest drop in weight in exchange for getting a cozy good quality 0 degree down bag. The other issue I have is that the quilt is so warm that around 25 degrees I start sweating with basic baselayers but then attempting to vent the quilt it freezes me out. I still have that quilt, I just use a small blanket inside it (ruining my weight savings) in order to fight the drafts
Thanks for sharing! Glad it's not just me haha. Again, I'm sure that they work great for some people, I just couldn't make it work.
@@timbschwartz now I just have to resist the guilt of not sticking with the lightest option. Truthfully I was pushing pretty hard for UL having gotten summer baseweight down to 12 pounds. Then I realized the sacrifices I was making wasn’t worth it since a 15-20 lb baseweight just isn’t that bad. Maybe I’d change my tune if I really wanted to do 25 mile days
@@charliemcdowell5231 For me personally, nothing magical happens below 10 lbs. I think its probably a great goal for either 1) people that are hiking thousands of miles or 2) people enjoy cutting weight as a hobby (I fall into this camp.)
I wouldn't stress the extra few pounds as long as you're having a good time!
Sounded like Brandon Faris cursing that crow out at 10:20 ish 😂
for the air pad feeling like "you're tense" I feel that too, like I'm balancing all night. For me I under inflate my pad and pillow it makes me get the sink in I'm looking for
Thanks for the tip, Andrew! I've tried under inflating in the past, but maybe I just need to mess with it more.
@@timbschwartz tbh I keep going back to my ridgecrest I do want to try the 1/8th pad for my ul set up
My tip for the neo air mat is to not have it 💯 inflated, I am similar to you bro in that when those air type mats are inflated right up I feel like I'm bouncing around too much and I cant settle and sleep properly. I pump it up and then lay on it and then twist the valve to deflate it to just about the point I'm almost feeling the ground, its super plush like this... 👌
Thanks for the tip!
Rolling around on the neoair xtherm sounds like crackling thunder in the middle of the night lol. Still love that pad to death though!
Totally! Despite it's issues it's still amazing. Thanks for the comment!
You need to try a Zenbivy bed. I toss and turn a ton. Not only does it keep all the drafts out, it is WAAAAAY more comfortable than any sleeping bag I've ever been in.
Thanks for the tip! I'll look into it!
I fully share your experience with inflatable pads. I just switched from a regular Thermarest to a Neo-air NXT. I love the lighter weight and small pack size but, having just got back from its "maiden voyage" of five days backpacking through Scotland, I found it SO uncomfortable, for exactly the reason you said; tensing up to avoid slipping off it. I was all set to sell it and go back to the regular Thermarest, but tried putting my waterproof coat over the Neo-air as a cover (anchored by wrapping the sleeves underneath). This stopped the sleeping bag sliding around like eggs in a Teflon pan and made a huge difference to comfort. My wife is now making me a custom cover for the Neo-air out of an old sheet sleeping bag liner. Should be no more than 100 grams additional weight when done. Still a lot lighter than the old Thermarest.
Thanks for sharing! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one. Let me know how the cover works out!
I always wondered how people sleep warmly with quilts. Mind you I hate sleeping bags too because I roll around a lot and I just get tangled up and frustrated.
You most likely know way more than I, but when it comes to specific conditions it can be the opposite. Many RUclipsrs are telling "this is always better than this" and that can be true in there, but maybe just part truth or even a bad advice in here or for my weird fysiology and heat production etc. Good thing that You realize that some of us might know more, keep up the good work 👍
Very well said! Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks so much for the comment!
I keep wondering when I am going to go lightweight. All of my gear gets better and better and it just gives me more and more room to put in more stuff it feels like.
All that matters is that your'e having fun! Thanks for the comment!
My rule of thumb is that a piece of practical equipment can only be tested in a practical setting. Everything looks great when looking online or in videos, it’s only why you use it you get a real sense of what does or doesn’t work, ‘trial and error’ 😊 I also say ‘a piece of kit is only as good as the individual using it’
That's a great rule to have! Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
I just came back from 6 days hike here in the middle of Scotland by the mountains using just foam pad to try out, was close to 0 celsius and kinda crazy, windy, rainy weather...anyway, easy to say - never again lol as side sleeper kinda sucks big time... but its only because my other BA Rapide failed on me, I bought it new and it was leaking air, had to send it back...
Scotland and the Isles. A place where you learn wet cold weather very fast. Love the place to get most of my kit.
Oh man, glad you at least had the backup pad! Yeah I think it really depends on the person. But hey, it's all about experimentation and now you know lol
@@timbschwartz Exactly hehe all about trying and learning, we are all different after all.
Thanks for the insights!
I always wondered how all these ultralight youtubers do this without carrying any meaningful amount of water. Now I know, many are based in the northwest, if there's water everywhere, it all makes sense!
Where I usually hike there's very little possibilities to get water and most springs and little streams are dried up in the summer. So I'm always carrying a lot of weight in water, one evening and morning with two people and a doggy easily consumes 6l (about 2 gallons?).
Thanks for watching! Yeah we're a bit spoiled for water up here - it's nice to not have to think about it too much. I tend to drink quite a bit as well, so I'd be right there with you hauling lots of water if I didn't live here.
Excellent video and list! As much as I have learned over my 25+ years of backpacking, I'm always learning something new. Still, there is just no substitute for experience and learning about yourself and your preferences. E.g. I wish I could go back to carrying just 1L of water like I did in the 1990s but I know I'm a "freak" about hydration and the more I drink, the better I feel. That's just my M.O.
Thanks so much for watching, Kevin!
Try deflating your foam pad a little to make it a bit more comfortable when you lay on it
Good show. Currently using the Superfly. It's like a small NYC apartment.
Nice! Been looking at hammock tarps - that looks solid.
love your honesty! I can relate to many of your points :)
Thanks so much for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it!
Western Mountaineering bags, no brainer. Tarps, went through that phase 35 years ago for light weight until mosquitos and tarantulas changed my mindset. Now, Tarptent Protrail model.
I still have yet to pick up a Western Mountaineering bag, but I hear great things. Thanks for the comment!
@@timbschwartz I've had several of them. No matter what the reputation, they are still "just a sleeping bag" so if you toss and turn, you will end up with a hoody on top of your face and compressed "down" on top of you making you cold...
I once went hiking with the guy who showed up with the cooler full of frozen chicken breasts. The ice, of course, ended up melting and getting raw chicken chicken juice all over their food. His wife actually left him shortly after.
Comment of the year!
Maybe he did it on purpose to get rid of the nag ! 😅
He still had plenty of breasts though.
Picking a tent site because it’s “pretty” and avoiding “bugs and people”. Relatable. 😄
Seriously, I prefer late autumn or winter to avoid the bugs and people issues. Plus it’s pretty.
Fall and Winter are where it's at! Thanks so much for watching!
...."PNW needs include a bug-net and a ground sheet, your tarp set up approaches the weight of a very very light tent'. I'm still in awe zpacks type setups can be sub 20z. i grew up in time when 4 pounds was light, and a 2.5 pound bivy/tarp was magical. The technological jump from the late 90s shocks me.
Thanks for the comment! I know, it really is wild how light they've become. I love using tarps, but at some point I had to come to grips with the fact that they're no longer a massive weight advantage. Still lots of benefits though, not the least of which is much less condensation to deal with.
My friend dehydrates canned chicken breast for trail. We love to to take shelled sunflower seeds on trail. It adds protein, fat and crunch to anything. So yummy. Parmesan cheese is a good one to take also. 2.2 lbs per liter of water. So dang heavy!
Mmmm that sounds awesome! I have a dehydrator that I should use more often, so I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the tips!
I have a wide quilt and love it and I agree I have to have my inflatable mat
Glad to hear the quilt is working out for you! All depends on the individual. Thanks so much for watching!
As far as water goes, if you don't anticipate a water source on your hike drink a good bit BEFORE you hike. On over nights or long hikes take a water filter. There are other factors but a water filter is a great asset to carry.
Great point! I should note that I pretty much always have a filter on me.
@@timbschwartz and a very good idea.
"clay" hahahahah I felt so seen!!! Cannot bring myself to calling anergy bars food either
The woodland background with a papercup, plastic lid, coffee confuses me. Is there a starbucks next to that park table or did you drive your purchased coffee to the forest for ambience?
I used to hike with the tarp only guy. One day, he quite literally just folded it and climbed in the tarp taco.
Hahaha sounds like a condensation nightmare
Agreed on quilts. I am such an active sleeper that I don't bother with a pillow at all on trail, because it's not going to stay under my head for long anyway. Even when I'm not on trail, when I wake up in my ordinary bed at home, every morning it looks like a tornado hit it. This morning, the sheet was in a godforsaken tight ropy wad that I was partially laying on top of, the comforter somehow was flipped at an angle (the "foot" of it was sort of upward to my left and not towards my feet at all) and the overquilt was half on the bed and half in the floor... lol. One pillow was in the far corner of the bed, and the other had fallen off the bed and was laying next to my bedroom garbage can.
I've always been like this, even as a little kid. My mother used to say that my bed always looked like a dogbed in the morning. :/
I have the Western Mountaineering Terralite, and it is WONDERFUL. It is very warm and snuggly, and roomier than the usual mummy bag so I don't get cold spots from my thrashing (if a bag is stretched tight enough, the loft will compress and create cold spots). If I get cold at all, it will be because I've somehow wiggled off the sleeping pad completely and am sleeping in a wad on the floor of the tent (which has happened before... sigh). Anyhow, I recommend it.
Haha sounds like you may even be more active than me! I'll have to check it out - thanks so much for sharing!
I think it’s good to be flexible and use the kit that is right for the trip you’re doing at that. I use a quilt but when it gets cold in the fall and I am hiking in the Whites of NH it’s back to my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. I think Jupiter can do what he does because he hikes a lot of long distances and your body just hardens over time. I do a lot of long distance backpacking and I have never seen anyone use that thin pad he uses to sleep on, to be honest I never see anyone use a tarp either. DCF tents I think do it all. Food is a huge issue and I have worked to carry just what I need. I like getting to my resupply with next to nothing left in my food bag. Take care
Completely agree! Flexibility is key, and it's less about having a one size fits all gear list and more about packing for the trip. Thanks for the comment!
The zenbivy is black magic for me, as someone who spins like a rotisserie while sleeping.
I keep hearing good things about the Zenbivy! Thanks for the tip!