@TURKKNCL By the way the name of the founder of the Xiongnu Empire, Modu Chanyu is a (rare but) living surname even today in Hungary in the form Madacsány. Csány (Chanyu) now is a small settlement in Hungary, but was founded in the time of the Tiszai culture (5th millenia BC). His title "Baatur" in it's modern form 'Bátor' means brave, while his father's name, Touman (Tömény) means very undiluted, compressed, concentrated, or even strong in Hungarian.
My friend is half Turkish and half Fin, and his Fin mother speaks perfect Turkish, she says it was pretty easy for her to learn it. I am a Turkish student living in Hungary and learning the Hungarian language is also pretty easy for me. It's not a myth, Turkish, Hungarian and Finnish are very similar to each.
Sure! folk songs are always kind of tricky so basically: There are 2 roses by the road side that are about to wither away, because there is no one to tear them off. Singer says: Tear it off Julcsa (old nick name for Julia) and make a bouquet (or wreath) out of it and put it onto your lover's hat. Sounds a bit strange, but folk songs are always about love and romance or when it's unrequited. hope this helps
my son introduced me to his fav professor, Dr Arici was from Turkey...at one time, he asked me if I had been 'home' lately and then he realized I was not Turkish so count that as a compliment :)
Két szál pünkösdrózsa Kihajlott az útra El akar hervadni Nincs ki leszakítsa Szakítsd le te Julcsa, Kössed bokrétába, Tedd a kisangyalod Pörge kalapjára! Nem ám az a rózsa Ki a kertben nyílik Hanem az a rózsa Ki egymást szereti Nem szeretlek másért Két piros orcádért Szemed járásáért Szád mosolygásáért
@TURKKNCL ..and their ancient writing into the steppe. The ruling tribes of the Xiongnu were the Uar and Chunni (Avar, Hun), who later moved westward and defeated the Kushan Empire and put their Kidarite dynasty upon the Yuezhi. Historical sources call them Uars (Avars), former rulers of the Xionites, and after they rejoined with the Huns under the rule of the Hephtal dynasty (White Huns), they call them Uarkhonites (Avar, Hun) or Kidarite Xionites.
@AndyMKordo In the past, Hungarian texts were also written from right to left or vica-versa, and it contains both logographic, syllabic (ligatures) and alphabetic signs and, however it has many vowels, texts were often written without them to save place. It also has it's own numerical system, which is older than even the Roman one, and stands closer to the Etruscan numbers which became extinct 2 milleniums ago.
@kmbalint ..as eg. Basque, Sumerian, aboriginal languages of America and Australia. Hungarian uses the possessive case reversed with respect to the Indo-European languages, only the Japanese language using the same form as the Hungarian. The formation of words in Hungarian language is carried out mainly by suffixes, thus transforming one concept to another one. This is the reason why Hungarian basic words are one or two syllable long, while the spoken language uses much longer words..
@AndyMKordo kop - kopp (pat - clap), zörej /zœrεj/ (noise) or zörren /zœrrεn/ (sudden crackling sound) 3) We often reverse the word-root or change the sequence of the consonants: Examples: köp - pök (spit), mosolyog /moshoyog/ - somolyog /shomoyog/ (smiles), sivít /shiviit/ - visít /vishiit/ (screams, shrieks), kicsi /kichi/ - csekély /chεkey/ (small - trifling) Examples for the transposition of consonants:
@kmbalint ..such like the Sumerian, Gutian, Etruscan, Pelagic, Hattic, Urartian, Hurrian, Elamite, Kassite, as well as aboriginal languages on the American and Australian continents. The Hungarian language is regarded as being derived from the two other members of the Ugric branch, however, it is the most developed language of the whole agglutinative groups of languages. The language uses more than 44 well recognisable sounds at its present state , among them over 14 vocals.
@AndyMKordo To begin with: this huge vocabulary has been built only on a few basic roots (root morpheme). These are the primordial pictures in our mind, in reality the names of important, visible changes of our surrounding. For this reason, we call this archaic language the “language of pictures”. We think in pictures and the basic roots name these basic pictures. These roots build a whole, closed system. The meaning of each root is radically different...
@kmbalint "Hungarian language belongs to the family of agglutinative languages. Officially it is a member of the Finno-Ugric language family. Structurally similar - although in a very distant relationship with it - are the Turkish, the Dravidian groups of languages, the Japanese and the Korean in the Far-East and the Basque in Europe. A large portion of ancient languages were agglutinative in their nature...
@AndyMKordo You are wrong. There are many words common in the Slavic and in the Hungarian languages, but as we know it the Slavic was yet a protolanguage even 1500 years ago, while Hungarian is one of the most archaic yet advanced language. Otherwise the Hungarian language is absolutely different from other languages because it mostly builds up it's words from it's 2000 roots and 80 one-syllable affixes.
@AndyMKordo We increase our vocabulary effectively by using these possibilities: 1) Changing front vowels to back vowels (or reverse) suitably, we can increase the number of words without changing anything else. (The real meaning is carried by the consonants.) We express with back-vowels (deep sounding) (a, á, o, ó, u, ú) everything, which is: nagy /nadj/ (big), távoli /taavoli/ (far away), ódon /oodon/ (old), hatalmas (huge), durva (rough) and hátul (in the back)
@kmbalint In this sense it is one of the richest language of Eurasia. Hungarian has at least 26 cases in declination of the nouns and even more where the suffix is of two syllables and therefore is not attached to the noun. There are two complete systems in the declination of verbs, the second one is being used with direct subject - and in this Hungarian is unique in Europe. Hungarian is an accusative language, although many of the agglutinative languages are ergative ones...
@TURKKNCL The leader tribe of the Rouran Khaganate was also the Avar, not to mention the Armenian or the Parthian kings who came from the Dahae/Avar Arsacid family... even Bumin, leader of the first Turkish empire belonged to the Sakae Ashina clan. About Turks, I guess the first "break off" was the event when the ruler Avars of the Rouran Khaganate refused Bumin's marriage offering into the ruling dynasty.
@AndyMKordo We adjust its pronunciation, using the outmost of our expressive-power, in order to get close to one characteristic feature of the matter to be named. 2) Beside the vowels even the consonants can be changed, helping to create a more accurate picture. We can make to look a happening more accentuated, lasting shorter or longer by making the consonants “longer” (doubling them): Examples: Cserreg /chεrrεg/ (chatters) or csereg /chεrεg/ (jingles).
@AndyMKordo ..we know that the oldest writing was found in Central Europe (Tartaria tablets) and that this writing is roughly 7500 years old, which age precedes the Proto-Sumerian scripts. Moreover,newer researches presume it that Middle Eastern alphabets like the Ugaritic abjad, the Aramaic or the Phoenician alphabets evolved from European antecedents. And to connect all this to the topic, 32 signals of the old Hungarian runeiform are akin to 26 signals of the Tordos-Vinca alphabet.
@kmbalint ..was the similarity of a portion of its words to those of these other languages. However, recent studies show that the similarities of many words are not generic." The problem started with that Austrians found smimilarities between Hungarian and Uralic languages first and therefore they (and their successors the Soviet linguists) put Hungarian to their hypothetical, "reconstructed" laboratory model proto-Uralic language family...
@kmbalint ..due to the suffixes applied within the words. "The set of Hungarian words is often unique and in many senses ancient. The studies carried out at the Sorbonne supported this finding. They have found that 68% of the set of words of the Hungarian language as etymon, i.e. ancient element, which words formed the most ancient words of the languages. These words are sound imitating and words of the baby language. They are mostly short words with only one or two syllables.
@AndyMKordo ..but all together they cover the whole universe. Therefore, everything can be named out of these few basic roots with the help of agglutination. We can say with a little exaggeration that the number of words built by agglutination is limited only by the starry sky, due to the large number of word-building resources.This is a simple consequence of agglutination. However this is not everything.We further modify the meaning of the produced words by changing pronunciation.
@AndyMKordo According to the Czuczor-Fogarasi Dictionary the Hungarian language has 2080 basic word elements (etymons). The Finn parallels do not amount to even 10% of this number. Etymons are short syllabes from the ages when peoples first time had to name the different things. With this we have more then 1 million words, but with all the suffixes and affixes it counts around 2-3 billion words.
@kmbalint It's a well-known fact that many peoples of ancient "Turan" (from South India to North Siberia) even in modern age bear European genetic markers (R1a, R1b), like the Hungarians. These markers are common among Indians, Iranians, Uyghurs, Anatolian and other Turkish nations and Europeans too. So I have to say, we Hungarians have many common things with Turanian peoples from Tamils to the Finno-Ugrian folks.
@TURKKNCL In Hungarian language we call these folks as 'Török' which became Turk, Turkoi, Turci in other languages. Tör means break and Török means 'I break smtg' or 'breaking off' (from a tribe or nation). As we know from the anthropology and genetics, these "Europeans" were being in the Far-East at least since 2000 BC, but according to the oldest Chinese sources, they've founded the legendary first dynasty of China, the Hsia.
@kmbalint ..that the words with common origin in the basic set of words is only 14% with the Finnish and only 23% with the Vogul and the Ostyak, while more then 30% are completely unknown! Not to mention there are only 212 word parallels between the Finn and the Hungarian languages which may be considered certain. Among these parallels, there are some which are still doubtful. For example, the Finn - kota, Hungarian - ház, or the Finn - kunta, Hungarian - had.
@AndyMKordo ..császkál /chaaskaal/ (strolling), csoszog /chosog/ (shuffles), csúszkál /chuuskaal/ (sliding), csusszan /chussan/ (slides), csihol /chihol/ (striking fire). All of them meant a movement built on the dialectical variants of the same word-root and listening to the noise they make, we distinguish between them by the fine changes in the pronunciation, by the music of the language. Thus, the word is not born out of characterization.
@TURKKNCL ..forming a kind of an early transition from the Hunnic to the Turkic. The Uralic and Turkic languages originates from the same Hunnic root, but the Chuvash remained closer to the Hunnic and Magyar, while the Old Turkic (and it's modern successors) through Altaic influence became closer to the Mongolic and other eastern languages. The same happened with the Scytho-Hunnic folks of Eurasia, they became "turkicized" (e.g. turanid type) by Mongolic peoples of the East.
@kmbalint It would appear to be a name of an enemy of the Iranian people in Avestan times, transferred later to the Huns owing to similarity of sound, as Tur was adapted to Turk in Pahlavi. (I notice it, there are many settlements in Hungary have in it's name the word Tur, like Mezőtúr, Túrkeve, etc). I think the Avesta refers to the time when the formerly agglutinative language speaker inhabitants of Iran and India (Elamite, Dravidian) was invaded by Indo-Iranian tribes.
@TURKKNCL Different civilizations called these nations in different names; Hun, Avar, Magyar, Tochar, Scythian, Alan, Dahae, Parthian, Sakae, Getae, Juezhi, Sarmatae, Massagetae, etc. Through the ages many westward migrations (returning) of these nations happened, but there were others who've stayed in the East, at least for a while; the Gokturks, the Xiao Yuezhi, Uyghurs, Jugars, Bashkirts, Ugors, the Madjars of Kazakhstan, the Hunzakuts of Pakistan and so on.
@AndyMKordo GYŰR: gyűrű, gyűr, stb (ring, crease, etc) And an other short introspection: "The words our literary language count certainly several hundred thousands, because different writers use diverse word-collections, but we will never come close to use the million. The one million means that the capability to understand that many words is slumbering inside us. The agglutination is partially responsible for this capability. Everybody knows the word-roots...
@kmbalint According to Middle Persian and Islamic sources, Afrasiab was a descendant of Tur (Avestan: Turiya-), one of the three sons of the Iranian mythical King Fereydun (the other two sons being Salm and Iraj). In Bundahishn he is named as the seventh grandson of Tur. About Xyon (Huns): This name is familiar in Pahlavi and Avestan texts.
@AndyMKordo a cloth feshlik (breaks at seam) or foszlik (get tattered) fergeteg (storm) forgatag (wirlwind kés (knife) kasza (scythe) sziszeg (hisses) szuszog (puffing) billeg (wobbles) ballag (walking slowly) There is not only the contrasting use of vowels, but also some words and especially some roots use all the vowels in the row. For example: lik, lék, luk, lók, lak, lák (hole) or the words csiszol /chisol/ (polishes), cseszeget /chεsεgεt/ (f**ks about)...
@AndyMKordo For example, Slovakian language have hundreds of common words with the Hungarian, but majority of them have Hungarian origin, since while in Slovakian language these words stand alone, the same word-root in the Hungarian language have a cluster of 30-50 or even more words built on it. Unique in it's nature that we can understand the very meaning of these one-syllabe root-words, while others who borrowed words from us cannot.
@AndyMKordo and with front-vowels everything (e, é, i, í,), which is: kicsi /kichi/ (small), itt (here), finom (fine), elöl (in the front) and fiatal (young). If somebody is getting ready, we say “készülődik” /kesuelœdik/, but if he does it very slowly, we say “kászálódik”. A little shawl “libeg” but a flag “lobog” in the wind. Few more examples: the stork kelepel (clatters) a smith kalapál (hammers) the child tipeg (toddles) a man topog (patters)
@TURKKNCL It is well-known today, that the main Y-chromosomal haplotype of ancient West-Eurasian and East-Eurasian civilizations was the R1a (R1b was not nearly as frequent), and this marker's oldest occurrence is in Central Europe (12 kyrs) and in the Balkans (11 kyrs old) along with the oldest traces of the Eurasian cultures and their writing, from which the Hungarian Rovás, the Turkish Orkhon, the Finnish Vuark, the Germanic Futhark, and many others evolved.
Rica ederim. Onlar da Turani ırktır aslında, evet. Ama modern ırk tanımına göre, aynı ırktanız, diyebilirmiyiz bilmiyorum. Akraba olduğumuz kesin: Onlar da bizim gibi, Hunları ve Attila'yı ataları olarak görürler. Hatta Macaristan'ın temellerini atan boyların bir tanesi hariç hepsinin Türk olduğunu okumuştum. Bizans tarihi kaynakları da Macarlar'dan "Türkler" diye bahseder.
@kmbalint We can understand the importance of this percentage when we compare that to the next highest frequency of etymons, which is in the ancient Turk, the Turkmen language where it is 26%. The Tibetan and the Sanskrit languages have 9%, the languages of the Pacific have an average of 7%, the Latin and the Hebrew have 5% and the English has 4% of etymons. The main reason why the Hungarian language had been declared to be Finno-Ugric...
@AndyMKordo I do not know well Afroasiatic languages - however I can read Arabic writing - so I dont' want to express an opinion on them, but as far as I know, none of these languages (including Arabic or Hebrew) had an own writing. Although many of the scientist believe that the writing originates from the Middle East (from before the arrival of the Semites), others - in the insight of "newer" datas - think it different. According to the archeological findings of the last decades...
wow, I like the image of the man on the horse team :) Hungarian is supposed to be in the same family as Finnish...sometimes when I hear Hungarian spoken, I hear similarities. :) btw, you can write of the relationships of Hungarian to Finnish and Estonian :) round bales in the field so it's a modern image :) wedding music from west Finland where my ancestors are from is very dour while music from the east is livelier :)
@TURKKNCL I have no doubt that this was the original meaning of the word, then it become a word for the 10 thousand men in an army for the Mongols, as they did not know it's original meaning, for them the word remained a strategy expression. In other way:If I know the original meaning of the word Touman, then I can do it to call or characterise a huge army by this, but if I don't know the original meaning of the word and I hear it seeing a huge army, I will not understand it's meaning.
@TURKKNCL In revenge he joined the rebel tribes to form the Göktürk Empire and expelled the Avars, who escaped into the west. With this, Bumin've broken the old tradition and after this, even Istemi and the Western Turks pursued the Avars up to the borders of the Byzantine Empire, so this event had an inherent political-cultural purpose. Accordingly it cannot be excluded, that all the Hun confederations consisted of an Avar-Hun ruling tribe...
@AndyMKordo I can show you an example about the Hungarian root system. Creator root: K.R It's semantic range: everythin connecting to circle, circular movement. Some of it's minor roots: K.R, G.R, GY.R Cluster of words: KÖR: kör, köret, körül, köröm, körte (circle, garnish, around, nail, pear) KAR: kar, karol, karika, karom, karima (arm, hug, hoop, claw, brim)
No, Turkish belongs to the Altaic language group that is totally different from the Uralic languages. I mean they are similar just because there are no grammatical genders and both groups belong to the so called agglutinative languages.
@kmbalint About Uar (Avars): According to Ferdowsi their legendary ancestor was Afrasiab. According to the Shahnameh (Book of Kings), by the Persian epic poet Ferdowsi, Afrasiab was the king and hero of Turan and an archenemy of Iran. In Iranian mythology, Afrasiab is considered by far the most prominent of all Turanian kings; he is a formidable warrior, a skilful general, and an agent of Ahriman, who is endowed with magical powers of deception to destroy Iranian civilization.
Hang on Hungarians has their own ancient alphabet. Anyway ir=write,iro=writer, iras=written text,irka=paper to write on,irott-written,iratlan=non written,irastudo=literate,irastudatlan=illiterate,irodalom=literatura,etc.In arabic to dictate means so close to write, and books that means it does not make a real difference between different things, it simplifies.
@AndyMKordo ..the first syllable of the words and this is a major advantage of the agglutinative word-creation. This root carries the sense of a word and everything that we glue onto it, will modify or taint the meaning according to our wish. The broad meaning of the root narrows down with every suffix put onto it, step-by-step until we reach the qualitatively specified meaning-area of that root, like a ship its haven. How does it come to have so many words?
@AndyMKordo töpördött /tœpœrdœtt/ (shrunken) - törpe /tœrpε/ (dwarf), ugrat - rugtat (make jump - gallop), keltő /kεltœ/ (arousing)- költő /kœltœ/ (poet, is hatching as well) - kotló /kotloo/ (brooder)..." With it's 2080 etymons and it's uique system, I think, the Hungarian language is more advanced than Arabic.
@kmbalint Many linguists disregard these “cognates” because they have no connection, either phonetically or logically. The meaning of the Finn - kota is “tent” which is not identical to the Hungarian - ház , meaning “house”. If we disregard these doubtful word connections and take into account not the words, but the root-words, then the Hungarian-Finn word parallels remain well under 212.
Aynı dil ailesinden yani Ural-Altay ailesinden ama aynı branştan değil. Bizimki Altay branşında, onlarınki Fin-Uygur. O yüzden Türkçe'yle fazla benzeşmiyor, ama Fince'ye Estonca'ya daha yakın.
@kmbalint What is already sure is that Hungarian ancient history and Hungarian consciousness of self cannot be built on the less than 10% Hungarian-Finn word parallels in the Hungarian vocabulary. Those who, by every possible means, are propagating the Finno-Ugric theory are doing none other than forcefully finnizing the Hungarian language and culture."
@kmbalint The Finno-Ugric theory is a strongly questionable, forced (by the Habsburgian Empire and the Soviet Union) speculation based on the similarities between a few Hungarian and Uralic words, which theory is disclaimed by even half of the linguists themselves. Glottochronology was applied to the Hungarian and to the so-called relative languages and it showed out...
@granskare Yeah, they're in Ural-Altaic languages family like Turkish. But unlike Turkish they're in Finno-Ugric branch. With considering these lingiual relations, and you're Finnish originated, we can count you as a distant relative of Turks. ;)
@kmbalint ..and encumbered every other noticed relations with other languages (like with the Sumerian, Dravidian or Irish, just for a few examples) however their theory completely ignores the evidences of archeology, genetics, anthropology, ethnography, musicology, historiography and all the authentical contemporary sources. "The Finno-Ugric theory, a theory which attempts to prove a preconceived goal, is a violation of scientific ethics.
Beautifull music! Greetings from Poland!
Very lovely and interesting music. Greetings from an American to all folk music lovers everywhere!
@TURKKNCL By the way the name of the founder of the Xiongnu Empire, Modu Chanyu is a (rare but) living surname even today in Hungary in the form Madacsány. Csány (Chanyu) now is a small settlement in Hungary, but was founded in the time of the Tiszai culture (5th millenia BC). His title "Baatur" in it's modern form 'Bátor' means brave, while his father's name, Touman (Tömény) means very undiluted, compressed, concentrated, or even strong in Hungarian.
Magnificent races, wonderful people: Turks, hungaries, japanese, korean I love you all
we are both HUN brothers. respect from Turkey
My friend is half Turkish and half Fin, and his Fin mother speaks perfect Turkish, she says it was pretty easy for her to learn it. I am a Turkish student living in Hungary and learning the Hungarian language is also pretty easy for me. It's not a myth, Turkish, Hungarian and Finnish are very similar to each.
Fantasztikus zene❤❤❤
Sure! folk songs are always kind of tricky so basically:
There are 2 roses by the road side that are about to wither away, because there is no one to tear them off.
Singer says: Tear it off Julcsa (old nick name for Julia) and make a bouquet (or wreath) out of it and put it onto your lover's hat.
Sounds a bit strange, but folk songs are always about love and romance or when it's unrequited. hope this helps
my son introduced me to his fav professor, Dr Arici was from Turkey...at one time, he asked me if I had been 'home' lately and then he realized I was not Turkish so count that as a compliment :)
Awesome! Thanks for uploading!
Greetings from Germany !
Hungary is by itself
That is Huns...Ugric
Két szál pünkösdrózsa
Kihajlott az útra
El akar hervadni
Nincs ki leszakítsa
Szakítsd le te Julcsa,
Kössed bokrétába,
Tedd a kisangyalod
Pörge kalapjára!
Nem ám az a rózsa
Ki a kertben nyílik
Hanem az a rózsa
Ki egymást szereti
Nem szeretlek másért
Két piros orcádért
Szemed járásáért
Szád mosolygásáért
@TURKKNCL ..and their ancient writing into the steppe. The ruling tribes of the Xiongnu were the Uar and Chunni (Avar, Hun), who later moved westward and defeated the Kushan Empire and put their Kidarite dynasty upon the Yuezhi. Historical sources call them Uars (Avars), former rulers of the Xionites, and after they rejoined with the Huns under the rule of the Hephtal dynasty (White Huns), they call them Uarkhonites (Avar, Hun) or Kidarite Xionites.
@AndyMKordo In the past, Hungarian texts were also written from right to left or vica-versa, and it contains both logographic, syllabic (ligatures) and alphabetic signs and, however it has many vowels, texts were often written without them to save place. It also has it's own numerical system, which is older than even the Roman one, and stands closer to the Etruscan numbers which became extinct 2 milleniums ago.
@kmbalint ..as eg. Basque, Sumerian, aboriginal languages of America and Australia. Hungarian uses the possessive case reversed with respect to the Indo-European languages, only the Japanese language using the same form as the Hungarian. The formation of words in Hungarian language is carried out mainly by suffixes, thus transforming one concept to another one. This is the reason why Hungarian basic words are one or two syllable long, while the spoken language uses much longer words..
@AndyMKordo KER: kert, keret, kerek, keres, kerék, kerge, kering, kerül, kerület, kerít (garden, frame, round, search, wheel, foolish, circulate, sidestep, perimeter, fence)
KOR: kor, korong, korog, kóró, korsó (age, disc, rumble, dry stalk, pitcher)
GÖR: görbe, görbít, görgő, göröngy, gördül, görcs, görget (curve, bend, roller, clod, bowl, cramp, trundle)
GUR: gurul, guriga (bowl, hoop)
GER: gerezd, gerenda, gerely, gerinc (clove, beam, javelin, spine)
@AndyMKordo kop - kopp (pat - clap),
zörej /zœrεj/ (noise) or zörren /zœrrεn/ (sudden crackling sound)
3) We often reverse the word-root or change the sequence of the
consonants:
Examples:
köp - pök (spit),
mosolyog /moshoyog/ - somolyog /shomoyog/ (smiles),
sivít /shiviit/ - visít /vishiit/ (screams, shrieks),
kicsi /kichi/ - csekély /chεkey/ (small - trifling)
Examples for the transposition of consonants:
@kmbalint ..such like the Sumerian, Gutian, Etruscan, Pelagic, Hattic, Urartian, Hurrian, Elamite, Kassite, as well as aboriginal languages on the American and Australian continents.
The Hungarian language is regarded as being derived from the two other members of the Ugric branch, however, it is the most developed language of the whole agglutinative groups of languages. The language uses more than 44 well recognisable sounds at its present state , among them over 14 vocals.
@AndyMKordo To begin with: this huge vocabulary has been built only on a few basic roots (root morpheme). These are the primordial pictures in our mind, in reality the names of important, visible changes of our surrounding. For this reason, we call this archaic language the “language of pictures”. We think in pictures and the basic roots name these basic pictures. These roots build a whole, closed system. The meaning of each root is radically different...
@kmbalint "Hungarian language belongs to the family of agglutinative languages. Officially it is a member of the Finno-Ugric language family. Structurally similar - although in a very distant relationship with it - are the Turkish, the Dravidian groups of languages, the Japanese and the Korean in the Far-East and the Basque in Europe. A large portion of ancient languages were agglutinative in their nature...
@AndyMKordo You are wrong. There are many words common in the Slavic and in the Hungarian languages, but as we know it the Slavic was yet a protolanguage even 1500 years ago, while Hungarian is one of the most archaic yet advanced language.
Otherwise the Hungarian language is absolutely different from other languages because it mostly builds up it's words from it's 2000 roots and 80 one-syllable affixes.
@AndyMKordo We increase our vocabulary effectively by using these possibilities:
1) Changing front vowels to back vowels (or reverse) suitably, we can increase the number of words without changing anything else. (The real meaning is carried by the consonants.)
We express with back-vowels (deep sounding) (a, á, o, ó, u, ú) everything, which is:
nagy /nadj/ (big), távoli /taavoli/ (far away), ódon /oodon/ (old), hatalmas
(huge), durva (rough) and hátul (in the back)
@kmbalint In this sense it is one of the richest language of Eurasia. Hungarian has at least 26 cases in declination of the nouns and even more where the suffix is of two syllables and therefore is not attached to the noun. There are two complete systems in the declination of verbs, the second one is being used with direct subject - and in this Hungarian is unique in Europe. Hungarian is an accusative language, although many of the agglutinative languages are ergative ones...
@TURKKNCL The leader tribe of the Rouran Khaganate was also the Avar, not to mention the Armenian or the Parthian kings who came from the Dahae/Avar Arsacid family... even Bumin, leader of the first Turkish empire belonged to the Sakae Ashina clan.
About Turks, I guess the first "break off" was the event when the ruler Avars of the Rouran Khaganate refused Bumin's marriage offering into the ruling dynasty.
@AndyMKordo We adjust its pronunciation, using the outmost of our expressive-power, in order to get close to one characteristic feature of the matter to be named.
2) Beside the vowels even the consonants can be changed, helping to create a more accurate picture. We can make to look a happening more accentuated, lasting shorter or longer by making the consonants “longer” (doubling them):
Examples:
Cserreg /chεrrεg/ (chatters) or csereg /chεrεg/ (jingles).
@AndyMKordo ..we know that the oldest writing was found in Central Europe (Tartaria tablets) and that this writing is roughly 7500 years old, which age precedes the Proto-Sumerian scripts. Moreover,newer researches presume it that Middle Eastern alphabets like the Ugaritic abjad, the Aramaic or the Phoenician alphabets evolved from European antecedents. And to connect all this to the topic, 32 signals of the old Hungarian runeiform are akin to 26 signals of the Tordos-Vinca alphabet.
@kmbalint ..was the similarity of a portion of its words to those of these other languages. However, recent studies show that the similarities of many words are not generic."
The problem started with that Austrians found smimilarities between Hungarian and Uralic languages first and therefore they (and their successors the Soviet linguists) put Hungarian to their hypothetical, "reconstructed" laboratory model proto-Uralic language family...
@kmbalint ..due to the suffixes applied within the words.
"The set of Hungarian words is often unique and in many senses ancient. The studies carried out at the Sorbonne supported this finding. They have found that 68% of the set of words of the Hungarian language as etymon, i.e. ancient element, which words formed the most ancient words of the languages. These words are sound imitating and words of the baby language. They are mostly short words with only one or two syllables.
@AndyMKordo ..but all together they cover the whole universe. Therefore, everything can be named out of these few basic roots with the help of agglutination. We can say with a little exaggeration that the number of words built by agglutination is limited only by the starry sky, due to the large number of word-building resources.This is a simple consequence of agglutination.
However this is not everything.We further modify the meaning of the produced words by changing pronunciation.
@AndyMKordo According to the Czuczor-Fogarasi Dictionary the Hungarian language has 2080 basic word elements (etymons). The Finn parallels do not amount to even 10% of this number. Etymons are short syllabes from the ages when peoples first time had to name the different things. With this we have more then 1 million words, but with all the suffixes and affixes it counts around 2-3 billion words.
@kmbalint It's a well-known fact that many peoples of ancient "Turan" (from South India to North Siberia) even in modern age bear European genetic markers (R1a, R1b), like the Hungarians. These markers are common among Indians, Iranians, Uyghurs, Anatolian and other Turkish nations and Europeans too. So I have to say, we Hungarians have many common things with Turanian peoples from Tamils to the Finno-Ugrian folks.
@TURKKNCL In Hungarian language we call these folks as 'Török' which became Turk, Turkoi, Turci in other languages. Tör means break and Török means 'I break smtg' or 'breaking off' (from a tribe or nation).
As we know from the anthropology and genetics, these "Europeans" were being in the Far-East at least since 2000 BC, but according to the oldest Chinese sources, they've founded the legendary first dynasty of China, the Hsia.
@kmbalint ..that the words with common origin in the basic set of words is only 14% with the Finnish and only 23% with the Vogul and the Ostyak, while more then 30% are completely unknown! Not to mention there are only 212 word parallels between the Finn and the Hungarian languages which may be considered certain. Among these parallels, there are some which are still doubtful. For example, the Finn - kota, Hungarian - ház, or the Finn - kunta, Hungarian - had.
@AndyMKordo ..császkál /chaaskaal/ (strolling), csoszog /chosog/ (shuffles), csúszkál /chuuskaal/ (sliding), csusszan /chussan/ (slides), csihol /chihol/ (striking fire).
All of them meant a movement built on the dialectical variants of the same word-root and listening to the noise they make, we distinguish between them by the fine changes in the pronunciation, by the music of the language. Thus, the word is not born out of characterization.
@TURKKNCL ..forming a kind of an early transition from the Hunnic to the Turkic. The Uralic and Turkic languages originates from the same Hunnic root, but the Chuvash remained closer to the Hunnic and Magyar, while the Old Turkic (and it's modern successors) through Altaic influence became closer to the Mongolic and other eastern languages. The same happened with the Scytho-Hunnic folks of Eurasia, they became "turkicized" (e.g. turanid type) by Mongolic peoples of the East.
@kmbalint It would appear to be a name of an enemy of the Iranian people in Avestan times, transferred later to the Huns owing to similarity of sound, as Tur was adapted to Turk in Pahlavi. (I notice it, there are many settlements in Hungary have in it's name the word Tur, like Mezőtúr, Túrkeve, etc).
I think the Avesta refers to the time when the formerly agglutinative language speaker inhabitants of Iran and India (Elamite, Dravidian) was invaded by Indo-Iranian tribes.
@TURKKNCL Different civilizations called these nations in different names; Hun, Avar, Magyar, Tochar, Scythian, Alan, Dahae, Parthian, Sakae, Getae, Juezhi, Sarmatae, Massagetae, etc. Through the ages many westward migrations (returning) of these nations happened, but there were others who've stayed in the East, at least for a while; the Gokturks, the Xiao Yuezhi, Uyghurs, Jugars, Bashkirts, Ugors, the Madjars of Kazakhstan, the Hunzakuts of Pakistan and so on.
@AndyMKordo GYŰR: gyűrű, gyűr, stb (ring, crease, etc)
And an other short introspection:
"The words our literary language count certainly several hundred thousands, because different writers use diverse word-collections, but we will never come close to use the million. The one million means that the capability to understand that many words is slumbering inside us. The agglutination is partially responsible for this capability. Everybody knows the word-roots...
@kmbalint According to Middle Persian and Islamic sources, Afrasiab was a descendant of Tur (Avestan: Turiya-), one of the three sons of the Iranian mythical King Fereydun (the other two sons being Salm and Iraj). In Bundahishn he is named as the seventh grandson of Tur.
About Xyon (Huns): This name is familiar in Pahlavi and Avestan texts.
@AndyMKordo a cloth feshlik (breaks at seam) or foszlik (get tattered)
fergeteg (storm) forgatag (wirlwind
kés (knife) kasza (scythe)
sziszeg (hisses) szuszog (puffing)
billeg (wobbles) ballag (walking slowly)
There is not only the contrasting use of vowels, but also some words and especially some roots use all the vowels in the row. For example: lik, lék, luk, lók, lak, lák (hole) or the words csiszol /chisol/ (polishes), cseszeget /chεsεgεt/ (f**ks about)...
@AndyMKordo For example, Slovakian language have hundreds of common words with the Hungarian, but majority of them have Hungarian origin, since while in Slovakian language these words stand alone, the same word-root in the Hungarian language have a cluster of 30-50 or even more words built on it. Unique in it's nature that we can understand the very meaning of these one-syllabe root-words, while others who borrowed words from us cannot.
Igen.😊
@AndyMKordo and with front-vowels everything (e, é, i, í,), which is:
kicsi /kichi/ (small), itt (here), finom (fine), elöl (in the front) and fiatal (young). If somebody is getting ready, we say “készülődik” /kesuelœdik/, but if he does it very slowly, we say “kászálódik”. A little shawl “libeg” but a flag “lobog” in the wind.
Few more examples:
the stork kelepel (clatters) a smith kalapál (hammers)
the child tipeg (toddles) a man topog (patters)
@TURKKNCL It is well-known today, that the main Y-chromosomal haplotype of ancient West-Eurasian and East-Eurasian civilizations was the R1a (R1b was not nearly as frequent), and this marker's oldest occurrence is in Central Europe (12 kyrs) and in the Balkans (11 kyrs old) along with the oldest traces of the Eurasian cultures and their writing, from which the Hungarian Rovás, the Turkish Orkhon, the Finnish Vuark, the Germanic Futhark, and many others evolved.
@maldoror26
Thanks for your nice compliment. ;)
Rica ederim.
Onlar da Turani ırktır aslında, evet. Ama modern ırk tanımına göre, aynı ırktanız, diyebilirmiyiz bilmiyorum. Akraba olduğumuz kesin: Onlar da bizim gibi, Hunları ve Attila'yı ataları olarak görürler. Hatta Macaristan'ın temellerini atan boyların bir tanesi hariç hepsinin Türk olduğunu okumuştum. Bizans tarihi kaynakları da Macarlar'dan "Türkler" diye bahseder.
I'm Finnish folk dance girl and Hungarian, Finnish and also Estonian languages and cultures are similar because they belong to Finno-Ugric languages.
@kmbalint We can understand the importance of this percentage when we compare that to the next highest frequency of etymons, which is in the ancient Turk, the Turkmen language where it is 26%. The Tibetan and the Sanskrit languages have 9%, the languages of the Pacific have an average of 7%, the Latin and the Hebrew have 5% and the English has 4% of etymons. The main reason why the Hungarian language had been declared to be Finno-Ugric...
2:54 Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those Bulgarian dancers from Thrace and the Shoppe region?
Greetings from Siberia
@AndyMKordo I do not know well Afroasiatic languages - however I can read Arabic writing - so I dont' want to express an opinion on them, but as far as I know, none of these languages (including Arabic or Hebrew) had an own writing. Although many of the scientist believe that the writing originates from the Middle East (from before the arrival of the Semites), others - in the insight of "newer" datas - think it different. According to the archeological findings of the last decades...
wow, I like the image of the man on the horse team :) Hungarian is supposed to be in the same family as Finnish...sometimes when I hear Hungarian spoken, I hear similarities. :) btw, you can write of the relationships of Hungarian to Finnish and Estonian :) round bales in the field so it's a modern image :) wedding music from west Finland where my ancestors are from is very dour while music from the east is livelier :)
@TURKKNCL I have no doubt that this was the original meaning of the word, then it become a word for the 10 thousand men in an army for the Mongols, as they did not know it's original meaning, for them the word remained a strategy expression. In other way:If I know the original meaning of the word Touman, then I can do it to call or characterise a huge army by this, but if I don't know the original meaning of the word and I hear it seeing a huge army, I will not understand it's meaning.
Azt keptuk házinak h neghalgassuk👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏nice
@TURKKNCL In revenge he joined the rebel tribes to form the Göktürk Empire and expelled the Avars, who escaped into the west. With this, Bumin've broken the old tradition and after this, even Istemi and the Western Turks pursued the Avars up to the borders of the Byzantine Empire, so this event had an inherent political-cultural purpose.
Accordingly it cannot be excluded, that all the Hun confederations consisted of an Avar-Hun ruling tribe...
The suffix system is the same as in Finnish, as well :)
@AndyMKordo I can show you an example about the Hungarian root system.
Creator root: K.R
It's semantic range: everythin connecting to circle, circular movement.
Some of it's minor roots: K.R, G.R, GY.R
Cluster of words:
KÖR: kör, köret, körül, köröm, körte (circle, garnish, around, nail, pear)
KAR: kar, karol, karika, karom, karima (arm, hug, hoop, claw, brim)
No, Turkish belongs to the Altaic language group that is totally different from the Uralic languages. I mean they are similar just because there are no grammatical genders and both groups belong to the so called agglutinative languages.
@kmbalint About Uar (Avars): According to Ferdowsi their legendary ancestor was Afrasiab. According to the Shahnameh (Book of Kings), by the Persian epic poet Ferdowsi, Afrasiab was the king and hero of Turan and an archenemy of Iran. In Iranian mythology, Afrasiab is considered by far the most prominent of all Turanian kings; he is a formidable warrior, a skilful general, and an agent of Ahriman, who is endowed with magical powers of deception to destroy Iranian civilization.
Hang on Hungarians has their own ancient alphabet. Anyway ir=write,iro=writer, iras=written text,irka=paper to write on,irott-written,iratlan=non written,irastudo=literate,irastudatlan=illiterate,irodalom=literatura,etc.In arabic to dictate means so close to write, and books that means it does not make a real difference between different things, it simplifies.
@AndyMKordo ..the first syllable of the words and this is a major advantage of the agglutinative word-creation. This root carries the sense of a word and everything that we glue onto it, will modify or taint the meaning according to our wish. The broad meaning of the root narrows down with every suffix put onto it, step-by-step until we reach the qualitatively specified meaning-area of that root, like a ship its haven.
How does it come to have so many words?
Actually the Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian are in the same language group, called finno ugric language group.
@AndyMKordo töpördött /tœpœrdœtt/ (shrunken) - törpe /tœrpε/ (dwarf),
ugrat - rugtat (make jump - gallop),
keltő /kεltœ/ (arousing)- költő /kœltœ/ (poet, is hatching as well) - kotló /kotloo/ (brooder)..."
With it's 2080 etymons and it's uique system, I think, the Hungarian language is more advanced than Arabic.
Lira korbowa 😍😍😍
@ErdelyMagyar1 You're so much welcome, pal. ;)
@kmbalint Many linguists disregard these “cognates” because they have no connection, either phonetically or logically. The meaning of the Finn - kota is “tent” which is not identical to the Hungarian - ház , meaning “house”. If we disregard these doubtful word connections and take into account not the words, but the root-words, then the Hungarian-Finn word parallels remain well under 212.
@kmbalint Well, I am hardly asserting an opposite argument.
We all from same similar tribes
Aynı dil ailesinden yani Ural-Altay ailesinden ama aynı branştan değil. Bizimki Altay branşında, onlarınki Fin-Uygur. O yüzden Türkçe'yle fazla benzeşmiyor, ama Fince'ye Estonca'ya daha yakın.
You're welcome, if you have other questions in the future, I can help
Cevabin için sagol :)
Benim bildigim dilleri bizim dilimizin ayni bransi
Eline saglik Turkkncl, bir sorum var : Macarlar aramizda ne yakinlik var ? ayni irkmi ?
A magyarok az ufók
Jó reggelt
Turkish is Turkic(Altaic).
Huns?
@Kiky112 eyvallah :))
@kmbalint What is already sure is that Hungarian ancient history and Hungarian consciousness of self cannot be built on the less than 10% Hungarian-Finn word parallels in the Hungarian vocabulary. Those who, by every possible means, are propagating the Finno-Ugric theory are doing none other than forcefully finnizing the Hungarian language and culture."
@kmbalint The Finno-Ugric theory is a strongly questionable, forced (by the Habsburgian Empire and the Soviet Union) speculation based on the similarities between a few Hungarian and Uralic words, which theory is disclaimed by even half of the linguists themselves. Glottochronology was applied to the Hungarian and to the so-called relative languages and it showed out...
hello from turkey long live turan
@granskare
Yeah, they're in Ural-Altaic languages family like Turkish. But unlike Turkish they're in Finno-Ugric branch. With considering these lingiual relations, and you're Finnish originated, we can count you as a distant relative of Turks. ;)
i was wandering like a Germ
We are the Blondies tiganies
(TÜRK MACAR FİN) BROTHER!!!
Ha közünk lenne a finnekhez akkor Magyarországot Finngáriának hívnák. De mivel országunk Hungária...
törpü-törpülemek means 'to make shorter' in Turkish.
My Hun is German
No way
@kmbalint ..and encumbered every other noticed relations with other languages (like with the Sumerian, Dravidian or Irish, just for a few examples) however their theory completely ignores the evidences of archeology, genetics, anthropology, ethnography, musicology, historiography and all the authentical contemporary sources.
"The Finno-Ugric theory, a theory which attempts to prove a preconceived goal, is a violation of scientific ethics.
la zanfona
Ask the Finns
hi from
T
U
R
K
E
Y
No way
Really?
Get a life
please
please
Amerika your country
La la la
But u could be Canadians