Complete Steering Rebuild (1982-1992 Camaro/Firebird)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Full Front End Steering rebuild for a 1982-1992 3rd gen Camaro or Firebird.
Song: MBB - Feel Good (Vlog No Copyright Music)
Music provided by Vlog No Copyright Music.
Video Link: • MBB - Feel Good (Vlog ...
good morning by Amine Maxwell / aminemaxwell
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported - CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/2vpruoY
Music promoted by Audio Library • Good morning - Amine M...
------------------------------
🎵 Track Info:
Title: good morning by Amine Maxwell
Genre and Mood: Hip Hop & Rap · Calm
---
🎧 Available on:
Spotify: open.spotify.c....
SoundCloud: / g. .
---
😊 Contact the Artist:
aminemaxwellofficial@gmail.com
/ aminemaxwell
open.spotify.c....
/ aminemaxwelloffi. .
. aminemaxwell
/ aminemaxwell
Rebuild List:
Moog ES2226RL - outer Tie Rod ( you need two)
MOOG ES2227RL - inner Tie Rod (you need two)
MOOG DS1049 - Center Link
AC DELCO 45C1065 - Idler Arm (all the other brands use the wrong design which causes bump steer)
Hi. Great video. It reminds me of when I did this job in the 90's. My 82 was starting to show it's age and the annual state inspection was due. So I replaced everything I suspected was wrong. The day after I finished, I took it in for inspection only to be rejected. I asked the mechanic what was wrong. He said the ball joints were bad.
I asked if he could show me the problem while the car was still on the rack. He obliged and we looked under the car. I asked to point out the bad part, where he pointed to the left upper joint. I then asked him what was wrong with it. He said it was bad.
I then questioned him again, telling him he wasn't going to work on it. Just to take away the "make work incentive". He again said the joint was bad. That's when I called him out, informing him the joint was a TRW part with a lifetime warranty that wasn't three days old. It didn't have any dust on it, let alone dirty grease. He then retorted that the center link was bad.
I took it home and changed the center link within 3 hours. He wouldn't look at me after he placed the new inspection sticker on the car but wrote that the ball joint was bad on the receipt. The lady at the counter showed the comment to me and I dared her to call the state police. She walked away.
Sorry to ramble.
He was trying to make some money, that y mechanics have a bad reputation.
I have to say that this video was edited perfectly and you made it simple piece by piece. Thank you! Please make more like this
👑KINGVENOM approved💪🏾
I should have a DIY alignment video with a few weeks
IMPORTANT!
the Idler ARM listed at 0:13 is incorrect!
the correct idler arm is (ACDelco 45C1065 )
And you also have to mention, that the design of the idler arm by MOOG is not the correct one so you might not be able to adjust it correctly. Better to use tha AC Delco one.
So its the same as the center link
@@waynegreen6789 What do you mean? What is the same as the center link?
@@ThomCountryfan the center link numbers you posted is the same number listed as the id arm
@@waynegreen6789 Actually that wasn't me posting the numbers but the maker of the video. But I've checked the video now. There's really a mistake. The id of the idler arm and the center link need to be swapped. So, 45C1065 is the idler arm and the correct Moog center link is DS1049.
Not sure why this video has any dislikes. Thank you for a straight forward how to. Also appreciate the alignment specs at the end. 🤘🏽
This is extremely important, but not discussed.
You make this look so easy. Thanks for all the hard work and sharing this awesome vid with us!
The steering linkage isn't very hard.
Now the Torque Armn bushing?
that shit was so hard i couldn't even get any good shots because i was cursing the whole time.
Guys! The AC Delco does no longer use this design. It's like the Moog and the others. However it shouldn't be a problem and probably never was as the bolt holes line up perfectly with the factory piece. Only difference is the bend is in a bit higher place but theoritically shouldn't be a problem. You can read the 3rd gen forum and multiple people confirmed that they work just fine
The problem has never been the ligning up of the bolt holes. The problem is, that with the wrong design (bend), you won't be able to adjust the center link so that it is exactly horizontal. But this step is omitted by some mechanics anyways. They just put the new idler arm at the same position as the old one, but this isn't really correct (especially with a wrongly designed piece). You'd have to measure the distance from the ground or the control arm bolts to the center link flats.
some of the newer AC delco Idlers are wrong.
I ordered a new one and it was a match for my old one.
but these parts sit on shelves for 10+ years often times.
@@3rdGenGuy So what part would you recommend if I can't locate and AC delco?
@@TubeWatcher I would just use your old one. Paint it up should work fine I would think.
Incredible video man keep it up I subscribed
Wow! Friend & I did the same toy 91 RS ~20+ years ago, brings back lots of memories! A++
The part I'm most concerned about tackling was brushed over. But the rest was also very helpful so thank you lol
tackling??
@@3rdGenGuy I'm going to be doing the job myself and was hoping you'd demonstrate how to make sure the center link is level
you can measure from the k-member bolts.
or I just measure from a flat garage floor to the middle of the inner tie rods.
@@3rdGenGuy Is it pretty straightforward then? Do you adjust the level by moving the position of the idler arm?
yes, the idler arm is just snugged up so you can move it up and down with a small hammer tap.
set the inner tie rod nuts to be equal.
then torque the 2 idler arm bolts
Thank you so much for this vid. I love these cars
Awesome video. Thanks
Hey, so I have all the parts added to my cart
Moog ES2226RL $20 x2
Moog ES2227RL $31 x2
Moog DS1049 $89
ACDELCO 45C1065 $67
So total is about $258 for anyone curious
But my question is this, do the adjustment sleeves come with either of the tie rods or do I have to buy the adjustment sleeves and clamps separate?
You have to buy them separately.
Thank you so much for these videos man!
Looking good!
Great video thanks 👍🏻
Attention! The idler arm by ACDelco doesn't seem to be the same design that it was a few months or years ago! They started to label other products with their brand but the design is the wrong one. So at this time it seems to be try and error when buying idler arms. Moog is completely incorrect and ACDelco might be too. I don't know about the other brands but from what I've read on the internet, I would go "Proforged" parts everywhere. They have a rust coating and seem to have the best bearings. There were also some infos on Moog end links. Some guys had difficulties with wheel alignment as they seemed to be too short or long. Very bad for Moog's reputation. Also they didn't show any interest in redisigning the wrong idler arm. I would avoid Moog now unfortunately.
The holes line up perfectly. The moogs should work too
@@bencezavarko7312 It's not about the holes. You cant put the center link in the correct position with the wrong idler arm. You have to measure from the bolts of the a-arm where it attaches to the K-member
thanks for the advice. I would rather spend more for better quality. Going with Proforged.
@3rdGenGuy That is actually not the correct idler arm, the correct one has a big casting line along the edges and has a 1.5 inch drop. The one you got has a very thin casting line and probably has the wrong 2 inch drop.
AC Delco seems to have stopped packaging the good ones in their new stock of these.
If you want the correct idler arm you must buy the McQuay Norris FA1399E.
I think any idler with part # FA1399 should be correct, when I ordered the McQuay Norris FA1399E on RockAuto it came in a different brand name box with part # FA1399 on the box.
Anyways just make sure you follow the center link leveling instructions before tightening up the bolts.
the ACDelco 45C1065 idler arm is a 100% exact match for the OEM idler.
I know this because:
1. the design is identical
2. I've set bump-steer to 0.006in on my car, on both sides. if the idler was wrong the bump steer would be massively different side to side.
@@3rdGenGuy Oh ok you must have got lucky and received an older stock item.
For anyone else reading this, make sure you compare whatever you ordered to the original idler or if you don't have the original just simply compare the angle and drop of the pitman arm to the new idler, side by side.
I have never changed the center link before , but after you put the parts all together , it seems like it should be lining up properly would think , so I'm not really understanding about the center link and aligning the bolts with the a arm bolts , I would have thought once you bolt everything together like you did before you installed it that everything would be aligned properly , Great video by the way !!!
so basically, the center link needs to be perpendicular with the pitman arm and idler arm. otherwise the geometry gets wonky.
you can measure from the a-arm bolts.
or from a level surface upwards.
@@3rdGenGuy thanks for the help , are you happy with the moog parts ? I went on eBay & ordered a TRQ kit , & one of outer tie rod ends the boots has a cut in it ... I guess I should have tried to go locally at the auto part store . The seller did refund me my money though , told me to keep or throw away the parts ... Its hard to find good quality parts anymore
I've used the MOOG center link and inner/outer tie rods.
just make sure you have the AC delco idler arm
Thank you!!!
glad I could help.
nothing's worse than watching a 30min video of someone rambling on and on without showing you what to do.
Exactly! Bit by bit I'm bringing my Firebird back to new condition :-)
good luck man.I also have a spring, steering shaft, strut tower video as well.
Thanks, will check them out! Gonna start with brakes and shock absorbers, fluids and filters, then it's gonna be stripped and repainted.
A 3rd gen Forum member has brake kits for our cars. some fit under 15 or 16in rims. stock brakes are basically garbage.
bigbrakeupgrade.com/
Saved for when i do mine
Unfortunately I stumbled upon this video AFTER I bought the Moog arm.
But, it seems from the video that yours has the same casting on the arm as mine. And according to the thirdgen.org post- some ac-delco arms were in fact from different manufacturers and the same as the Moog in geometry.
So- I think you have the wrong one installed too- easy too check- measure from the arms end the height to the grease fitting area- if above 2" , it’s the wrong design.
Please, let me know… (leveling the center-link might correct the arm's location height-wise, but probably still affect the total geometry)
how did it work out
THANK YOU! I'm getting ready to do this to my 89 Trans Am GTA. Do you have a video about replacing the ball joints.
Thanks again for a great video!
I had part of a video on the ball-Joints, but lost 1/2 the footage. I have racing ball-joints now so it's not really applicable to most guys.
hi these parts fit on a 1987 pontiac gta thanks
Great video, specifically showing the bolt sizes to avoid getting up and down or having a pile of sockets on the floor. Just not sure why you say to disconnect the hood light.
The engine bay light will drain your battery your you left it on during this rebuild.
so i put a step in to disconnect it.
I ordered the Detroit speed steering refresh kit months ago but I haven't been sure if I can install it myself 😅
you can do it
I am a female and if can install the kit I am positive that you can to.
@@3rdGenGuy is the idler arm from that DSE refresh kit design correct ? I was thinking about buying that one
The idler arm is ac delco 45c1065. Not the center link. You have the part numbers reversed. Its the idler arm that doesn't line up with the pitman arm.
1st and 2nd comments show the updated parts lists.
Great video - question: is there no need for a Moog ES2032S Tie Rod End Adjusting Sleeve using these tie rod ends?
i prefer the solid sleeve
a few companies make them
UMI
SPhoon
ex ex
Is the ACDelco 45c1065 the correct part number for the center link? Thanks in advance. Also, does an IROC use the same steering components?
the AC delco and Moog center link can be used. either is fine.
and yes, all 3rd gens use the same steering links.
@@3rdGenGuy Thanks for getting back to me. I have replaced all the components using the Moog parts purchased through Spohn. I am also using Spohn's Bump Steer Kit - 1982-1992 for GM F-Body's. Thanks again.
The moog part number at 0:13 is not for the idler arm that is for the center link is their a part number for the acdelco center link
I messed up the part #'s
you can buy MOOG stuff except the idler.
the correct idler arm is (ACDelco 45C1065 )
Great speedy reply! So the AC Delco is the correct Idle arm and Moog for the center link and tie rods?
That was my next fix. However due to the fact that I almost lost control of my 92 Camaro on the highway because one of the axles of the 10 bolt decided to just pop out! I'm opting for a 9 bolt (Borg Warner) rear end swap.
9 bolts are a bit stronger than 10 bolts, but they have fewer parts available.
@@3rdGenGuy Thanks for the advice! I have 2 more options: Swap my 10 bolt for a 94 - 2000 10 bolt (even though it sticks out a little bit more) or buy a c-clip removal kit, which converts my current 10 bolt to a system similar to the 9 bolt.
@@LuisAFigueroa
I have a 9-bolt. Holding up to a built 383 no issues. However parts are VERY limited and can be expensive. If I replace it there is only one route I would go and that is Ford 9".
@@TheMrkaninja Not true, there's a dedicated website selling 9 bolt parts: 9bolt.com
@@LuisAFigueroa
Yes, and parts availability is limited with many of the parts they sell being USED. I have a 9-bolt, trust me I know all about that website.
Do you mean the AC Delco center link or idler arm?? It looks like you have reversed the part numbers- the Moog center link number is DS1049
the ACDelco 45C1065 was the Correct idler arm.
but now i'm hearing they changed the geometry and it's wrong just like the MOOG idler arm.
I haven't checked the PRO-Forged one yet
Why didn't you upgrade the steering to rack and pinion found on the 4th gen Camaro/Firebirds?
4th gen steering geometry doesn't work on a 3rd gen.
the a-arm lengths are way different.
3rd gens have NO rack and pinion support that has the correct geometry.
hi I have a 1987 pointac trans am gta can some one pls tell me if the parts are the same thanks
1982-1992 Camaro AND firebirds share the SAME suspension and steering.
thanks for your information
Very useful bro, good job!
It’s the same for trans am 1982, right?
ya, any 1982-1992 3rd gen firebird or camaro suspension/steering is IDENTICAL.
Why do you have to mark the position of the idler arm? Also why can’t you use the moog idler arm?
*center link not moog
the Moog idler arm has the WRONG geometry.
it wasn't made for a 3rd gen but is branded as a 3rd gen part.
3rdgen.org has a BUNCH of posts about how horrible the steering ends up being with that MOOG idler arm.
you want ACDelco:45C1065
i posted the wrong part # by accident in the video
3rd Gen Guy before installed the same kit you have on my car my wheels never rubbed at full lock but after the install they rub left and right
was the car properly aligned at a shop?
that sounds like a weird outcome since the steering stops won't allow stock 235 55 r16s to rub
3rd Gen Guy after further looking into this problem only the right side rubs. Car was never into any accidents either.
Hi I have to rethread one of the bolts on my center rod would you know what size of die I will need thanks
pretty sure it's 5/8-18 thread.
but remember one end is LEFT hand thread, the other is right hand.
might be worth just buying a new tie rod. they aren't expensive.
Hi, I am just doing this now. I have MOGG inner and outer tie rods and the AC centre link. You say the tie rods should have come with some instructions for setting it up. Mine had nothing so just asking do you have a picture of the instructions I need to follow to ensure I set this up correctly before I take it to have the alignment set at a shop.
Thanks in advance and great video very useful
You just have to install the tie rods that they are about the same as the ones before. I mean the distance between the center link and the tie rods has to be the same so that your alignment isn't too far off while driving it to the shop. The shop is going to do the rest. What you have to adjust is the height of the center link relative to the control arm bolts / ground. It has to be horizontal. You adjust it with the installation height of the idler arm which you might not be able to if you use the idler arm with the wrong design (Moog and as it seems today also the AC Delco ones). Maybe Proforge idler arms are stil the correct design.
@@disdonc6012 thanks for the reply. This job was done last year. I did manage to get the setup close and I did use the new AC Idler which for mine was ok. I then had a shop do the final adjustments and the steering alignment etc is as good as new now (as it is new haha ) but thank you for the time taken to add your reply.
Great vid, thanks for the instructions. Stupid question, assuming left/right is viewed from inside the car?
Yes, imagine you are in the drivers seat. left/right is from that orientation.
How much do all these parts cost as of 2018?
I think total it's $350 or so. i don't think the price changed much
its money well spent though
new steering makes a 3rd gen drive real nice
Where is a good place to buy all this parts
Bueno, las cambiaré yo mismo , sólo me falta comprar las torres y torquimetro, con 65 dólares compro eso jejejejej
Moog ds1049 is actually the center link
correct, my part numbers got all jumbled
Our 1983 Camaro had an inner tie rod that was shorter than the Moog ES2227RL. Did Moog change the center link and tie rod ends dimension?
SO MOOG's parts are often universal.
so yes, their TIE rods may be a little too long. when using the non stock Tie-rod adjusters.
i had to cut off 3/4in off one to get it to work.
also, the Pro-forged kits are also acceptable quality wise . price is a bit lower than MOOG/AC delco as well.
@@3rdGenGuy I made a huge mistake. I was comparing a Blazer tie rod not a Camaro tie rod. Too many projects going on here.
I lost the mark when removing the old idler arm bracket from the frame (painted the engine compartment) Any idea how to adjust the position of the idler arm bracket height?
@@stricklandgarageaviation2864 You have to align it, so that the center link is level. I guess using a water spirit level could work but actually it has to be level to the K-member, not the ground. The manual says that you have to adjust it using the bolts of the head of the nuts where the A-arm is connected to the K-member as a reference point and then measure some distance (center link -- bolt) which has to be the same on both sides.
why not use the factory alignment?
Because the post 1983 alignment is JUNKKKK
factory alignment does a few things
1. increases tire wear
the camber is in the WRONG direction
2. decreases grip
3. makes the car less stable on the freeway.
the changes happened because performance alignments make it harder to use the car at low speeds (sub 10mph)
chevy received complaints about the steering at low speeds so they changed them for the worse.
the alignments at 5:18 are what you want to use based on your usage.
if i take my car to an alignment place, will pull up the factory specs and set it to that? they'll probably look at me crazy when I give them different specs.
Just write down the Specs for the street alignment. (same one i went with)
I went down to les schwab tire and gave them those specs.
they had ZERO issues getting those specs.
they didn't even care
was it you who said do not use the moog center link? because i'm also seeing that you shouldn't use a moog idler arm
the part number you listed for the ac delco center link is actually for an idler arm.. ?
I think moog fixed the part, I just installed all of these parts using moog and it works fine. What was the issue you had?
the correct idler arm is (ACDelco 45C1065 )
the moog arm has the wrong geometry.
it works, but it can induce snap oversteer
that might send you into a tree if ur pushing the car hard.
I also think I wasn't able to level the center link correctly. I guess most of you don't even care about leveling it. You just use the old places when bolting the idler arm up.
Great video! I'm getting ready to do this in the next couple of weeks. I bought all Moog, including center link. What do you mean by wrong geometry?
the MOOG idler arm is NOT designed for a 3rd gen.
it just so happens to be close ""ISH"" so MOOG sells it as a replacement.
you want the (ACDelco 45C1065 )
you can read more about is here (has pics ex)
www.thirdgen.org/forums/suspension-chassis/730439-beware-moog-idler-arms.html
The idler arm, I agree. In the video you mention the center link
i probably got em mixed up.
Did that center link diagram come with it when you bought the center link?
ya, but it's pretty self explanatory.
if you are parked on flat ground, you can measure from the ground to the link as well.
Where did yoy buy this kit?
each part was purchased separately from amazon.
part numbers are at 0:13
Not An Argument. How much did it ask cost? Did you have to cut anything to make the parts fit?
it's about $300 total not including a new alignment.
BUT it's a drastic improvement over worn-out linkage linkage
if you used the billet sleeves (connects outer an inner tie rods) you will have to trim 3/4in off the threads on the outer tie-rods.
if you use the stock sleeves you don't need to cut anything.
i seen this video after installing. How do you align center link with A-Arm bolts?
It's easier to park your car on flat concrete and measure from the ground. you want the center link heights to be equal on both sides.
Detroit speed has a video of it for their DSEZ car build.
3rd Gen Guy got if this isn’t done how bad will the ride be
@@lh399 I couldn't get it level because of th wrong idler arm. Well I don't know, my suspension is bad anyway, so I can't really say anything. Didn't feel anything special / worse about it. But as 3rd Gen Guy mentioned in another comment, it could induce snap oversteer.
Can i use the same alignment specs thats posted on a lowered third gen?
it would fine even if your car is slammed.
you would have to modify your steering stops if you went to the extreme when lowering.
the alignment isn't gonna make your tires rub
3rd Gen Guy, Are you saying that the Center link and idler arm made by Moog are not recommended? I found a 9 piece kit online that includes the following (all Moog): DS1049, ES2032S, ES2226RL, ES2227RL, K6145T. Center link, tie rods, lower ball joints, outer tie rods, and adjusting sleeves. It seems to be missing the idler arm. I believe they also have a 8 piece kit (missing the Center link). and lastly a 12 piece kit with all the above mentioned plus sway bar links (Moog K5252). Do you recommend I get the 8 piece kit and buy the idler arm and center link from AC Delco, or is the Moog center link ok to use? Thanks.
the MOOg stuff is fine EXCEPT the idler arm,
you want ACDelco 45C1065
Sweet, thanks. Keep up the good work with the videos. Cheers
why did you use stock junk?
there's no alternative my guy.
unless you wanna go all rod ends and setup dirt track links.
@@3rdGenGuy UMI makes a bumpster kit which is way better quality than moog. I forget if you're running a center link still from your videos but if you are I'll start performance makes a nice adjustable that fit your ride.
@@3rdGenGuy yeah bump steer kit is a glorified dirt track link but I run it on my g body
I've used the UMI bump steer kit, and that's only for the outer tie rods.
the kit was too low end for racing.
rod end was one of those cheap resin filled ones and the spacers were janky.
I now use a high end PTFE rod end with a WoodWard swaged link alongside a custom machined 316 stainless spacer.
Bump steer is 0.006in over 2inches of travel almost perfect
@@3rdGenGuy I use the speedway ends with different hardware . Also an adjustable center link.. mine is minimal as well and bracket approved.
Write you a check to do mine?
the point of my videos is to show YOU how to do it!
How does he not have way more subscribers this got to be the best 3rd gen you tuber!! 💪🫡🙌