Tankless - What to know before you buy
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- Picking your Tankless Water Heater & Matt's Recommendations for New Builds and Remodels
The models in the video are linked to Amazon so you can see approx pricing of these units:
Outdoor Propane Non-Condensing amzn.to/2CXQxSZ
Indoor Non-Condensing Nat gas amzn.to/2Cy8nLv
Indoor Condensing Nat. Gas amzn.to/2CYyqwl
/ risingerbuilds
www.mattrisinger.com
HUGE THANKS to www.mooresupply.com for letting us film at your warehouse!
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Thanks for posting this! It's so hard to find unbiased info on water heaters where I live!
Production quality and depth of information continues to get even better! You're doing a really nice job with this channel.
Matt, perfect timing, I’m educating myself now for an upgrade this year. Great stuff!
Hi Matt. I'm loving your videos. I watched one yesterday and subscribed. I've worked in the building industry all of my adult life. I'm 65 now and want to build a small masonry/framing solar home for myself and your videos have a lot of valuable information that I hope to learn much more from. Thank You
Matt happy new year! I love all your videos! I gutted/remolded my 870 sq ft condo in Florida & ALL your videos helped. I made my handyman look at your pocket door videos before he installed mine. Also your sooo HANDSOME!
When I was in Japan, the house we lived in had a tankless unit made by Rinnai. About half the size of the smallest one in your video. It worked beautifully! There was a remote control box installed in the kitchen. It allowed you to turn the unit on and off and control the temperature from inside the house. The water was brought to temperature almost immediately. For me tankless is an easy choice.
Thanks Matt for a great, and easy to understand, breakdown of these units. I'm currently prepping to install the one in the middle.
Matt - Your videos have always saved me hours of product research online. I now send your video links directly to my clients. They also love your videos. Thank you and please keep them coming!
Dude you are in my mind....... last few videos have been on subject that I am working thru as we speak.... Keep up the great work!!!
Just got the largest Navion dual , domistic and water heating boiler installed. Such great technology in the new heaters. To be free of Oil AND 24 /7 240 electric hot wayer , im very happy
thanks, I am planning on building in the deep south, that was a really solid tip.
I have three electric tankless units located next to each point of use. One under the kitchen sink for sink/dishwasher/washing machine, one in each bathroom for the sink/shower. Not everyone can install smaller units like that, I planned for it during a remodel.
When you install one large unit for the whole house there are two issues.
By installing smaller units you have several advantages.
1. Smaller units are usually electric. Electric tankless don't need to be vented. Venting cost money to install and maintain, not only that but every molecule of air which is vented out of the house negatively pressurizes the house. Which increases HVAC costs. Electricity cost more than gas, but doesn't require venting, which offsets that difference somewhat.
1a. Smaller units can be installed close the point of use, inside cabinets, under counters, in nearby closets.
1b. Because the unit is installed close to the point of use there is instant hot water. In larger whole house systems, whether gas or electric, tank or tankless, when you turn on the water you have to wait for the cold water to cycle through before you get hot. Smaller systems are installed at the point of use, so the hot water is nearly instant.
2. By having the unit so close to the point of use there is very little energy waste. In many hot water systems, both gas and electric, the water has to be piped 20-50 feet on average. Those pipes need to be installed, insulated and maintained. The longest run from heater to tap is around 8 feet in my house. That's only because I have a shower head in the ceiling, not the wall.
3. Smaller units don't require significant rewiring of the breaker box. They can be connected with a 220V outlet (Some are even 110, but that won't run a shower)
4. If you have multiple smaller units, if one unit fails the entire house doesn't lose hot water. So for instance I have two bathrooms. If one unit has a maintenance issue it is shut down, while the other is still operable. We can get by with hot water in one bathroom until a service can be scheduled. No more costly emergency service calls.
What small units do you recommend?
Good idea
Don’t forget the life span of an electric tankless😂😂. And your house electrical amperage needed
@@kaylenedowdle1310 what’s the average lifespan of a tankless? I wouldn’t imagine it’s worse than traditional tank heaters.
Hello, Dawt Calm-- Thank you very much-- this is the best, most concise and helpful information I've seen about tankless. I just bought an old house, vacant for two years. The hot water stinks (due to bacteria growth while idle, i understand), so am planning to go to tankless. Thank you very much. This is what I've been thinking to do-- three small electric units, and your comments confirm the practicality of this. Thanks ✅ Also, from my reading, it sounds like Europe and Asia use tankless water heaters far more than the ol' vat we're used to here in America. I like the idea of getting this 40-gallon hazard out of the house.🙂👍
Great video for "newbie" in tankless water heaters.
Very clear explanation, in simple, plain English.
Thanks! 👍 👍 👍
I wasn't expecting to learn much but I did! Thanks Matt
Right around 5:30, I’m in New York and temps have been colder than normal past couple of weeks. My unit is inside however still getting colder water. I’m sure you already know this but it helped a bunch being able to move the burner temp up a couple degrees to satisfy my needs of hot water. Currently 24*f and I maintain 112 @ the heater and adjust accordingly. Great video, very informative!
Thanks Matt. That was very comprehensive.
Great explaination. my tank WH is close to replacement so this helps.
Really great, fully integrated video.
My ole water heater is going out after 22yrs.. I am considering installing tankless and watched this video to gain more knowledge. Thanks for the high quality video and simple to understand overview!..
You have a well speaking voice for RUclips I'm also converting my oil tank at oil burner system to a Natural Gas tankless system
Your point on size and regional temperature is spot on. I have a tankless. I live in NY and I totally notice the temp difference between a hot summer day and a very cold winter night.
Qui a Roma e difficile trovare
Questo apparecchio perché?
Tank Water Heater is very conveniently , I truly recommend !!!
Matt, thanks for another informative video. I really appreciate you clarifying the issue of how long for payback on the energy savings of tankless, explaining that the biggest selling point is the unlimited hot water, not saving energy. Ever since I upgraded from a 20 to a 40 gallon water heater I’ve never run out of hot water, so I’m glad to know that there is little reason for me to change to tankless.
Tankless also pays you back over the long term in a couple other ways: 1) supposedly, they typically last longer than tanks (~20 years instead of ~10 years), 2) it's much easier to replace one lightweight tankless heater with another than to deal with two 150+ pound tanks, one of which is actually much heavier since it's partially full of water and sludge.
Great speaker,great info.Well done.
Congrats Matt! You made it over 100K subscribers (like over night?) I swear the count was at 99K just yesterday. Great way to ring in the new year! We love our endless water (Noritz unit, 94 % efficient.) Great comments. Another bonus for the 90+ models in new construction is being able to plan ahead on the gas line needing to be sized to be able to supply the 199K BTU. The only thing I don't like on ours (because I have not installed a circ pump) is the sandwich effect. When turned on, the hot water is warm (from previous water in the line), then goes cold (from the water that has slipped by the heater) then finally gets hot from the unit producing hot water. At least I can plan on that at the beginning of a shower, and not run out of hot water before I'm done!! The more of your videos I see, the more I appreciate the building science approach! Thanks again! - Wally
If you want to add an extra return plumbing line from your fixture (back to to the water heater or at least to the last split before the heater) you can install an on-demand recirculation pump (at the water heater or the fixture). Then what you do is open the hot water tap for a split second then close it, then wait 10 seconds for the recirc pump to push the cold water sandwich past the fixture then when you open the tap you get full constant hot water. I don't recommend installing a recirc pump without a return line (unless you like warm water out of your cold tap all the time).
Hey, thanks for making the video. I learned a lot. Take care
I have used a Takagi for 13 years without an issue. Next to the furnace so venting was not an issue. The natural gas input line had to be resized so it could supply both the furnace and the hot water heater. Pumps between the hot and cold water at the end points give almost instant hot water. Gas line and pumps were the major expense not the hot water heater with installation.
Also put one in my mother’s house for both hotwater and radiant heat. It works very well doing both functions.
We've got a cold stretch here in Boston. You here of any units freezing from the intake? May happen if not used much...
I have a hybrid unit so it's always warm.
You didn't discuss the hybrid.
AO Smith. I have an Eternal
In a retrofit situation, I often still install the condensing models. I use a condensate neutralizer to correct the acidity of the condensate water, a condensate pump, and the old pressure relief piping to get it to the outside.
awesome review, helped me make a decision between the two form factors.
Great info, looking to build in a couple years so it helps!
Just bought a 8.4 gallon rheem outdoor. Cant wait!!
Matt...Awesome teacher! Thanks!
This was SO helpful, thanks from California!! 🥰
Thanks! My chimney is rusted through. Thinking about getting the one that can use pvc out the side of the house.
Thanks. Very informative.
My tank’s lifespan is just about up and it’s in the attic( don’t ask why a builder thought this was a good idea.). This video has really helped on which unit to use.
Hi Matt, could you include a total cost of ownership comparison in these videos? A true cost comparison for me is starting from an existing tank heater and would include every expense from acquisition cost, replacement cost (plumbing charge to remove old unit and install new), operating costs over lifetime, and maint costs over lifetime. Thanks! great videos
Thanks for the great explanation.
Excellent presentation.
wonderful explanation and good insights into whcih type of model to go for when doing a retrofit vs brand new building.........thanks for the video
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Thank you , I truly appreciate the information
Hey Matt... I'm not sure for up north, but here in South Florida, and as an electrical contractor, for an electric tankless water heater, I have had amazing results with EcoSmart tankless water heaters. The brand you showed today I have had nothing but complaints here especially with not heating water that well.
I personally havr an ecosmart eco27 in my home and I will NEVER go back. Ecosmarts are also a LOT smaller and slimmer than most others and most of the time less expensive!
But I know everyone's got their own preferences :)
Such a good video, I don’t know how someone could give it a thumbs down
Great video Matt.How about one with the tankless with recirculator pump theres two types manifold ,recirculator line very interested in which ones best Thanks keep up the good work
Matt
Thanks for the GREAT Videos. You do a fantastic job informing us.
Hey Matt, I have owned/installed 3 Bosch tankless and 2 Rheem hybrids, in houses I have owned, with much satisfaction. However!!! Last winter (sometime in April we had a severe freeze. During that freeze, due to a power outage, my most recent RTGH95xlp developed a leak. I called warranty and PG&E. Both told me that I was out $1200 bucks. The small leak is in the area of the top intake tube going into the stainless pre-warmer compartment. I took the heater guts apart from the enclosure (enough to slide the guts toward the top to expose that plastic elbow, p2). I couldn't determine where the leak is (no split or broken on fittings or copper tube). They tell me at Rheem that there are no repair parts available. The woman I spoke with was very cold and unconcerned about my plight. So, I do not recommend Rheem.
You should include the fact that if installing a non-condensating tankless model, but have a vertical (through the roof) exhaust vent then it will create condensate. In fact, if the exhaust must raise more than 2 feet above the unit it will create condensate.
I didn't know this and am now having to buy extra parts to install my unit.
Thanks! I'm right in the middle of deciding which way to go on our vacation home.
great video, very well presented
I like the sealed combustion idea that way your not chucking air you paid to heat or cool outside. I would love for someone to figure out how much that costs to operate a non sealed system. Great video
Great information. Make sure that the condensate water drains into PVC and not cast iron. The acidity of the condensate will erode the cast iron.
I've had to use the stainless steel venting in a previous install and it drove the cost of considerably. My only question is what about venting through a brick chimney? Does the condensate destroy chimneys? Would I have to run stainless all the way to the roof?
Great Video Matt
Great info and great video. After watching your video on tankless vs. tank, I ended up replacing our water heater in our current house with another tank. However, we're getting ready to build a new house and this video helped me get a batter understanding of how the condensing tankless operates. A well deserved like and subscribe from me. :)
in China!
Any thoughts on the latest generation of tankless electric models? My builder was impressed with the latest one he installed. I've spec'd a heat pump unit as I wanted the cool air produced (hot AZ garages couldn't be more perfect for HP water heaters). Tankless electric (if actually functional) would be nice for all electric, net zero/ off the grid homes.
Good summary, thanks!
Can you describe how you size these based on the number of hot water fixtures you will have in a home? What assumptions do you make about maximum demand?
Also, hope to see a similar set of videos on hydronic radiant heat sources!
Matt is the man. Smooth talker and nice looking : )
Great over view thank you. Considering a unit for a cottage on my property using propane.
Water softeners that discharge into a septic system can cause deterioration to concrete tanks. Wondering if the acidic nature of the condensate will alter the bacteria and possibly the concrete septic tank??
Thanks great video with choices, Learned A Lot :)
Hi, I live in Michigan and I'm always buying a water heater I'm thinking about going tankless because of my flooding problem. I want thank you for your unbiased opinion
Great video thanks for everything you do.
Very welcome
Thanks for the content
Matt hits all the good points
he has a really good channel with a little higher lever of information than the norm
Good summary Matt. I found going w/ a condensing model for my retrofit was the best option. It was right above a laundry drain, so no issues with condensate. The additional cost of the condensing unit was offset by the savings on installing the more expensive concentric, stainless venting needed by the non-condensing unit. And it was easy to run the new PVC exhaust vent up in place of the old tank heater venting. A couple of 22.5* elbows allowed for the needed offset to line up with the roof penetration. Unit has been running great for 3 years now and is using about 1 therm of gas/mo. compare to 6+ for the old tank heater. Payback time should be under 10 years in gas savings.
Which brand/model did you go with?
I installed a Takagi T-H3M-DV-N heater. You can search for a video entitled "Checking out the new Takagi Tankless Water Heater" to see more about it. I think it was the best heater for my situation and it's been working great.
It was around US$700 last spring, price varies quite a bit so pays to shop around. All in all about $200 more than a new 40 gal. 12 yr. tank.
$190 less at Supplyhouse.com than what Amazon has it listed for.
Yes, that's why I mentioned shopping around. I used that seller, they also had all the service valves and assorted bits for the conversion from a tank type heater.
I just installed a Rheem gas tankless condensing unit - because our old Bosch W.H. failed without notice so we bought what was readily available - we needed hot water. Installing the unit itself was quite simple but our model was very heavy to lift into place. My vents are not final yet - AND - we have not had any condensate produced from the unit's condensate drain :-)
@Matt Risinger I think you should mention the duct on the middle unit has high heat in the middle, but it's a two way vent, meaning the intake is surrounding the exhaust. There won't be heat to worry about on the vent pipe.
Also, another factor on going with the condensing units is they are rated Energy Star and can give you a tax credit on your income taxes, up to $600.
Do you have a video on weather stripping for doors?
Can't decide what kind to buy and I need to replace mine for sure, can feel cool are coming in around the gaps!
Nice follow up on the other video! Really helpful. What do you think of electric water heaters?
I've heard of issues with reverse air flow in freezing temps. When the non-condensing units are not running, cold air enters possibly freezing the exchanger due to other appliances creating a vacuum on the building envelope.
Thanks for this, Matt. Have you heard about LG washing machines not being compatible with tankless because the LG washers pulse water, and the tankless needs a steady flow of water demand to fire up the burner.
Great vid, I'm curious if you have ever used tank-less with a radiant floor hydronic system. If so I'd be curious about performance. We are finishing up a house in the High Rockies and it has tubing for radiant heat. I also need to heat water and don't know if I should go with 2 tank less units, a combi boiler, or just an old fashioned boiler. Any feedback will be appreciated.
Good Overview!
Matt, Love your videos. Can you also make a video comparing electric tankless heaters?
Yes, also need advice on electric tankless, in my case, point-of-use (POU).
In my case we get plenty of hot water from the current 50 gallon tank hot water heater (just two of us in the house). Unfortunately, we have a long run to the kitchen on the other side of the house through a cold, concrete foundation in Albuquerque (in the South, but at cold, high altitude). Would like to put a 15-18kw under the sink, since we have about a 60F required temperature rise and solar panels providing almost all our yearly electricity needs. Will have to put 220v line in over the roof.
...
Also, what do you think of the economics of using point-of-use electric tankless water heaters at the bathrooms (2+), the kitchen, and the laundry room of a new house build, especially if you have solar panels offsetting your electric costs?
Because its a video on Gas Water Heaters.
@@lyfhalvorsen3598 there are none on electric, hence the question
I have two tankless electric hot water heaters that I am going to install.
Found your video very informative. What about electric tankless water heaters? I bought one for a garage I recently built and for $400 think it's great. Planning on building a new home this year and figure I need 3 tankless heaters and would like to use the electric ones?
Hello, great video...can you do one on electrical ones?
I live in RI and have a possible carbon monoxide venting issue with our 3 yr old Kenmore gas hot water heater. I thought a tankless heater didn't need to be vented, and your video just totally bummed me out big time. Now I gotta call in the hvac guy to replumb the vent tube, which is a tough and costly job in my old house.
Hey Matt Doug Ames here,I'm thinking about switching to tankless and I need your recommendation on witch brand and size to go with,I live by myself and the sqft is 1464, the house was built in 1980
I upgraded from old tank water heater to an ao Smith 96% efficiency model. Installed it myself. Was a bit of a pain but no regrets. I did it primarily for efficiency but the endless hot water is nice too. I would recommend the condensating model even if you have to drill a hole in the side of your house for the intake/exhaust.
How much did u save on ur monthly?
@@malinoisnation9392 40-50
Is it trouble free? Can I ask what tankless brand you have? Thanks
@@andreilesiuk9538 he said A.O.Smith brand
For the acidity issues it depends on the plants around whether they will die or not. Pines and Firs like acidic soil it helps so they don't have to share nutrients and Hydrangeas change color depending on whether the soil is basic or acidic.
Most important point missed- some instant systems today come as a combi unit- where you can run hot water to heat your house and domestic HW. That’s when the real savings kick in. Get rid of your big old boiler and one tiny machine can do it all!!! Savings are big, currently lots of utilities and cities offer nice rebates or other form of incentives.... do your research on your local incentives.....
I have units that run up to 250k BTUs to do heat and HW.... work great!!! Keeps monthly bills down!!
How does a condensing version compare in pricing? I don' think I heard that? Would like to have heard about the mechanics of how a condensing works vs a non-condensing. On cold days in SWFL like now water flow really degrades! Lastly whats code say about distance to venting for a window that can open? Thanks!
Great video, thanks. Our house does not have gas to it, electric only. What are your views on Electric on demand heaters? Cheers.
Very helpful! Thank you.
Great! Now I know what to buy. Thanks
What would u suggest for a 12 x 32 prefab building with a living area and a bedroom. Just 1 shower and sink. I live in Muldrow OK just west of Fort Smith AR. Keep up the good work.
May be new Tech but there are some condensing models I have found that have build in PH Neutralizers for the condensate so you can just let it drip outside or into a sink P-Trap
Outstanding presentation, review, comparison, information for on-demand as water heaters. Question: My current 50 gallon water heater, natural gas (40,000 BTU input) - will my current gas line be sufficient to supply/provide enough gas to achieve adequate hot water? Thanks.
Good information thank you
Great channel. I'm subscribed. Question, i live in Chicago. Natural Gas. Going tankless. Should i go with Rinnai or Navien? I would rather spend more money up front and have better quality. Just wondering what your experience has been as i don't know what company makes the best tankless. THANKS.
Best investment we ever made. Replaced 2x50 gal electric with one Ranai natural gas. Saving about $45/ month on electric.
I wouldnt say that yet, wait and give it a few years and u wish you will get a tank again. How long did you put in that tankless? I bet you only put it in about 2years or so?
Hi Matt,
I'm in the process of having my house built. I have 3 bathrooms and I need an outdoor unit. Will this 8.4 gpm outdoor unit be enough for my whole house, and does everything I need come with this unit?
Thanks Matt thanks for your thorough and excellent explanation. Appreciate it! 😀
Thank you!
Excellent info regarding the condensing tankless - but why is the condensation acidic?
This is good to know. Thanks!
Hi
Matt, I have a new build starting in a week or so and have been contemplating using a high efficiency tankless unit. My issue is with the home being on a 1000 gallon propane tank. I don’t want the tankless to eat up the limited resource of propane....We are looking at two bedrooms, three baths, and stacked washer and dryers in each of the bedroom walk-in closets. My wife and I will be the only two living in the house. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this...Thanks for all of your videos!!
@Rob Janson, what did you end up doing? We are about to break ground on a new home and the builder has plans to put in a tankless propane water heater on a 100-gallon propane tank. Nervous about having to refill it frequently, especially with four kids. Any thoughts or experiences so far would be appreciated!
Thanks for this info. How can I get more information about a Rinnai tankless outside unit RUS 65eP with the "still fire" option? Thank You. Wayne from Ontario Canada
For the mid efficiency models, I found rannai sells exhaust vent solutions that are plastic pipes lined with aluminum which could be better sealed. Any thoughts on that or does it change your recommendations?
Matt, in your videos I haven`t heard you mention how demand and flow are addressed. In my last house in Calif.I replaced my tank w/a tankless mounted outside. All went well including the city insp. My research shows that with more demand, you can expect les flow I> E> washing clothes and someone starts a shower, or 2 people showering at the same time. Thot water temp stays stable but there is less flow to each outlet. not really a big problem unless you have many folks in the same house. Also my plumber told me that units exposed to the sun most of the day in Calif. would sometimes have electronic failures due to heat. Mine was located so that it was shaded much of the day. Probably much less of a problem here in Georgia or the n/east. What are your thoughts? M. Harris