The Western Sydney Airport Metro Problem
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- The Western Sydney Airport Metro is a 23 km driverless transit line currently under construction in Sydney's far west, that will link St Marys on the T1 with the new Western Sydney International Airport at Badgerys Creek. However, many have questioned why exactly its construction was prioritised over what could have otherwise been a roughly 14 km extension to the South-West Rail Link from Leppington to the new airport. This extension would have been shorter and cheaper, potentially allowing for direct access between both of Sydney's airports while also linking the airport to communities closest to the airport, such as Liverpool and Leppington. In this video, I'll discuss why the government's choice to not extend the South-West Rail Link was misguided, and also explain just why I believe there remains hope for redemption.
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Links:
Google Drive folder filled with all the reports discussed in this video and more: drive.google.c...
The main scoping report that is discussed in this video (March 2018): drive.google.c...
Aurecon's recommendations for corridors to protect for a North-South Line and SWRL extensions: drive.google.c...
Paul from Transport Vlog's channel: / transportvlog
My most recent collab with Paul: • Tour of the Western Sy...
RM Transit's video about differing electrification standards on the Sydney Metro (including my cameo!): • Sydney Metro is Great,...
Western Sydney Airport Line Project Overview by Sydney Metro: www.sydneymetr...
Media release declaring planning for a metro extension from Aerotropolis to Glenfield is underway: www.sydneymetr...
Warren Truss states "not enough passengers to justify rail link initially": www.abc.net.au...
Malcolm Turnbull declares Badgerys Creek Airport will have a rail link: www.dailyteleg...
News article about lack of rapid bus links to the new airport: www.smh.com.au...
Orchard Hills Draft Plan: www.planningpo...
Music:
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Dat Groove by Audionautix
Joy Of Silence by Basspartout
HoliznaCC0 - Thoughts Growing Mold
The 80s by Summer Loops
Another Day by Kesta
EDIT: One thing I neglected to suggest and that has appeared a lot in the comments is that they just extend the SWRL as a heavy rail line to the airport, rather than convert it to a metro. This would be cheaper and easier, and would maintain the extra capacity the SWRL gives to the Sydney Trains network. It also leaves open the possibility of linking both airports via the T8, and would allow the metro to be extended straight to Macarthur from Aerotropolis rather than having a branch to Glenfield. We’ll have to wait and see what the government chooses to do.
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Lots of links in the description, be sure to check those out. Hope you all enjoyed this one :)) Was I too critical? Was I not critical enough? Let me know all your thoughts in the comments below. I don't usually have the time to reply, but I do read most of them!
They need to link it to Metro Northwest at Tallawong via scholfields and to metro southwest via the Leppington line & Liverpool. There, now you have a greater Sydney circular metro line.
Here’s how we will link the two airports. By a regularly scheduled government charter flight. It will only take about 10 minutes at most between the two airports using turboprop aircraft that depart every 10 minutes
@@electro_sykes I was thinking this too! It is an incredible idea. Plus it would be way cheaper. I would be even better if it is free too.
I absolutely loved this video and your channel! 🎉
@BuildingBeautifully what they need is that North - South Metro, East - West Metro, the SW rail link extension and an extension of the Liverpool to Parramatta T-way extension all going to the new airport
the fact that the new metro is incompatible with the existing metro which is in itself incompatible with heavy rail is just a symptom of the ineptness of government
Metro is heavy rail lol
Yes, this is sheer madness. It's rail transport 101. Pick a technology and or gauge and run it.
@@colehendrigan1368Same gauge. Different power configuration. There is method to the madness but it won't really make a difference until after they've polished off most of the routes.
Do they have the Sam loading gauge? I'm wondering if NSW has a plan to finally electrify beyond Macarthur, although autonomous won't work on Main South Line
Gov dont use light rail, They have com cars and underground tunnels to get them where they are going.
People forget that the rail links are just as much about getting workers to the airport and nearby businesses as it is for moving passengers. And that a major portion of throughput for the airport won’t be just people, but freight. Having a large, new airport with no curfew is going to be hugely popular with freight carriers.
They all have trucks though
@@electro_sykesTrucks are expensive when you have a good rail connection and enough freight. And yes a major airport does move enough freight to demand for full freight trains
@@jan-lukas yeh nah just ship in the cargo or use conyevor belt systems
A freight line is planned to be built separately, the metro isn’t designed for freight
@@paulmcgregor6411 Of course not. But the volume of freight being handled by the airport means lots of commuting workers, mostly from the western suburbs of Sydney.
Finally a RUclipsr who comes out with new ideas instead of an ordinary train vlogger who just accepts the current system.
A rail link from Glenfield will be a bonus for us travelling from outside of the Sydney Basin too. Intercity trains from Goulburn, Canberra, etc could stop there, and allow direct connection to both Sydney and Western Sydney airports.
You really need that link between the two airports. Just imagine if you live in the south east of Sydney like Sutherland Shire or St George and you have to catch flight from the Western Sydney Airport at say 2am. Build the extension now not later.
Disagree on the importance of linking the two airports by rail. The airports will be completely separate operationally.
If you need to connect to a flight at a particular airport that’s the one you’ll be flying into in the first place.
I feel like Extending the SouthWest rail link is the better option than converting it to metro. Since the T2 and T5 would then have to run to Campbelltown/Macarthur, it would add to the rail traffic south of Glenfield. Then when the airport metro is fully extended it wouldn't have to alternate between terminating at Macarthur and Glenfield. With the added bonus of having more stations having direct services to the new airport.
They need to link it to Metro Northwest at Tallawong via scholfields and to metro southwest via the Leppington line & Liverpool. There, now you have a greater Sydney circular metro line.
@@electro_sykes Although the lines will be incompatible. You will have to change at Schofields and whatever station they choose to connect to at the other end, probably Liverpool if they extend the Southwest Metro to there from Bankstown. So yes, it would be a circular metro route, but you would need to change (at least) twice to complete the lap.
@@daveg2104 let me guess, they chose it to be imcompatible so you have to change trains
@@daveg2104 maybe they could build it north to a new set of platforms at Tullawong, east along the Leppington line to Glenfield and South to Macarthur nd base it off the Jurong Region line in Singapore.
Why would you terminate two lines just 1 stop away from another (Tallawong) rather than just extend both Metro NW and WSA to Schofields and terminate them there? Half the trains on the Richmond line terminate at Schofields anyway and there is a tonne of space right now to build a big interchange station there.@@electro_sykes
All the references to the metro line connecting to the new airport in Sydney
(also thanks to Dongchen Yue for making the captions so nice! "🎵synth🎵")
0:03 Western Sydney Airport Metro
0:08 Metro Western Sydney Airport
0:12 Sydney Metro West Airport Line
0:22 Sydney Metro Western Sydney Airport (current name)
3:04 Western Sydney Metro Airport Line
6:45 Western Metro Sydney Airport Rail Link
7:01 Sydney Western Airport Metro
11:19 Sydney Western Sydney Metro Sydney Airport
12:12 Western Sydney Airport West Metro
13:14 Sydney Metro Metro Western Sydney Metro Airport (Metro Stations)
15:57 Western Sydney Airport Sydney Western Sydney Metro Railway Metro Airport
geez Sharath, I'm more amazed how you spoke the names without giggling. gj mate!
Haha. For those last two names, I had to spend some time adjusting them to fit in a single caption 😅.
Thanks. Hopefully it's more palatable for deaf folks or people learning English.
Thank you for putting together a list of all the names that I called the Sydney Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Metro Western Sydney Sydney Sydney Airport Metro Metro Metro St Marys Glenfield Leppington Denistone Metro Metro
The true question is: WHY NOT JUST DO BOTH???
Sorry, this is wrong. The Western Sydney Airport Metro should have connected with Tallawong not St Mary's.
13:12 & 15:56 had me dying 🤣
I'm honestly unhappy with the way the Sydney Metro Metro Airport Western Sydney Airport Metro Line has been laid out, I believe that one of the best options could have been linking the Metro Sydney Western Airport Nancy Bird Walton Aerotropolis Metro Line to the Sydney Metro West line. They definitely could have done better with the planning of the line, but at the end of the day, at least a train line is actually being built!
Anyways, great video Sharath! I look forward to your future coverage on the building of the Sydney Western Sydney Airport Nancy Bird Walton Sydney Metro Airport Western Sydney Line!
i feel like map creators are gonna have fun naming the new line
there's no limits on how you can name the line at this point.
what they need is that North - South Metro, the SW rail link extension to the Airport and an extension of the Liverpool to Parramatta T-way to the Airport as well.
Thank you Elliot! I enjoyed making this video about the Metro Airport Western Sydney Sydney Metro, and I agree they should extend the Sydney Metro West to the new airport as soon as possible
This whole project has been a disaster from the very beginning and I'll add to that further in a later response. The new Minns' Labor government has not committed to preparation of a business case to extend Metro West from Westmead to the Aerotropolis, which means that it probably won't happen for as long as it remains in office. It was reported in the media that even rail planers within the bureaucracy were sceptical of whether the cost/benefit ratio would stack up. Similarly, the new government doesn't support a business case for extension of the Bankstown metro line to Glenfield via Liverpool, which presumably would involve conversion of the existing line from Liverpool to Glenfield to metro, unless it's proposed to quad the track. You would think that it would make the proposed extension and metro conversion of the SWRL from Glenfield to the Aerotropolis, for which a business case is being prepared, untenable.
@@exray1 chris minns thinks that sydney does not need any more infrastructure
Great video! Despite the lack of an extension of the Leppington line at the moment, it is promising to hear the governments plan to release the business case for a Leppington line extension and Metro conversion in the near future to connect South-Western Sydney residents to their local airport- hopefully this will be opened not too long after the Western Sydney Airport becomes operational and that it goes ahead!
The alignment at the moment going North-South opens up many opportunities for a further urban sprawl in the Outer West of Sydney especially in Orchard Hills, Austral, Bringelly and Luddenham- let's hope the state govt makes rezoning areas to residential zones more efficient in years to come to mitigate the housing shortages we're facing at the moment and cope with demands from a forecasted boom in Sydney's population in both the short- and long-term.
In addition to Bradfield, the rest of the rail alignment within close proximity to the Metro stations (
They need to link it to Metro Northwest at Tallawong via scholfields and to metro southwest via the Leppington line & Liverpool. There, now you have a greater Sydney circular metro line.
I agree with what you are saying but I think you are understanding how hopeless our state government is. All those places you mentioned are mostly like farms and fields and will take decades to fully develop. Meanwhile, I do see too many people eagerly catching then train to St Marys(lol) then another train to the middle of no where lol
Despite Australia being so large, I think we’re rapidly approaching a point where we realise we might be running out of room. To catch up on infrastructure whilst still increasing the base city population is going to continue to cause significant future issues. This is a great video mate. I like it when someone can discuss things simply like you.
Yeah it's a bit of a situation we have. We still have plenty of room outside of Sydney, but everyone wants to live IN Sydney, and the issue is, Sydney is surrounded by the forests.
So, do we
A) Remove a lot of forests
or
B) Build rapid transportation that allows people to live outside of Sydney
or
C) Jam everyone in? lol
@@hairgrowthjourney9005option D drastically lower immigration 😅
@@stpOwner I 100% agree. Sadly, our elites and corporations are hell bent on keeping those numbers high.
???? What about that land in the towns north of Brisbane?
@@stpOwnerpathetic
By the way the t8 runs to Leppington via airport sometimes when track work is on so it’s not impossible to scrap the Sydenham branch and have trains go to MacArthur, revesby, and the new airport **
Who wants to go to St Mary’s? I want to get there from the Southern Highlands by rail! What respectable international tourist will want to access Sydney CBD via St Mary’s?
Yes because international tourists would know all about St Mary’s wouldn’t they 🙄
The route that was chosen has so much empty land so probably makes sense for the longer route and empty land to boost the amount of tax that would come into government hands when all them new house pop up
Yeah that is the major problem. All this is being built in the middle of no where. It will take decades and decades and billions and billions of dollars for all of this to built. Honestly, it would not surprise me if the project a white elephant project for the first 10 to 30 years. Will probably be great for people who live in Penrith, Blacktown and St Mary's but a dud of a project for everyone else. Basically, seems like this is being built for people that don't even exist yet in places that have not been developed yet.
@@EatMyShortsAUThat's generally how it goes, people want to love to places that have services.
It's great to see Sydney finally moving to a metro network. Their fully entanglad heavy rail network is insane for a city of over 6 million people. In big cities, everyone knows that passengers transferring is much better than crippling the network with 100s of different running patterns.
At last, someone who understands!
I ride the Norwest Metro many times a week and it is briliant. I can see the absolute need to continue the line from Tallawong to St Marys being mandatorty to enable the residents of Northern Side of the Harbour to quickly travel to the new airport.
Turns out you've been adding subtitles for the last few videos. Thank you so much for this!
The St Mary-WSA line will be a white elephant in the first few years. Except St Mary there are no station with substantial residential population. Remaining population would have to change "at least once", i.e. from Penrith and Blacktown. The first line should have been Leppington-WSA. There are already trains from Blacktown and Parramatta to Leppington which should have been extended to WSA. The Sydney Metro WSA -St. Mary line unless extended to Tallawong would not see huge patronage.
11:06 it will not benefit more people. What about all the people who live in Fairfield, Cabramatta, Greenvalley, Edensor Park, Austral, Smithfield, Cecil Hills, Mount Vernon, Hoxton Park, Macquarie Fields, Ingleburn, Kemps Creek, Bonnyrigg, Casula, Heckenberg, Ashcroft, Sadlier, Moorebank, Warwick Farm, Liverpool, Chipping Norton, Hammondville, Holsworthy, Horningsea Park, Canley Heights, Elizabeth Hills, Prestons, Edmonson Park, Carnes Hill, Busby, Miller, Abbotsbury, Greenfield Park, St John’s Park, Prairie Wood and Wakeley?
There are MORE than 1 million people that live within a 15-25 minute drive of the new airport, yet it will take them well over an hour to get there by public transport.
So now they’re going to have to build a 15-lane highway to allow everybody to drive there instead?
Answer: Hoang Do
One main reason for federation was to standardise the rail gauge between qld, vic and nsw. Now we have multiple incompatible networks in nsw alone.
G'day
I'm seriously frustrated and disappointed.
We have one of the largest infrastructure investments in the new airport which falls within Liverpool municipality, it's been years in the planning and all the transport connections won't be completed when it opens.
I recall the opening of Leppington and Edmondson Park stations in February of 2015, and it was exciting to know that Leppington would connect to the new airport.
It makes no sense that this new airport won't have a rail line connecting to Leppington and also not connecting to Liverpool where people could also then travel Sydney CBD.
The incompetence of the former state government is astounding and the current state government has inherited a mess with so many budget blowouts in multiple areas.
I'm still scratching my head wondering why there will be a new rail line linking St.Marys and not Liverpool, it's like we're moving in the opposite direction to the most desired locations for travellers and workers.
There, I've had my rant, this issue has been frustrating me for years.
It should just be called the Bradfield Line.
Its so great to dream but all I know is i'll be dead and buried before anything significant gets built.
Great Video! but I do think there should be more criticism of WSA and WSA Metro- considering that all of these transport options are not exactly very good; and the cost/benefit of the project seems way too low to be feasible in the medium term. The infrastructure spend is very important but it needs to show results and seems more like that governments of the past in NSW are more interested in vanity projects to these ‘blank canvas areas’ than actual investment into underdeveloped areas closer to sydney itself. Imagine how far $6bn could go in upgrading links to Bonnyrigg/Wetherill Park. All in all, the WSA and WSAM will show its success in the years to come, whether this was another suburban sprawl cop out or becoming that ‘second city’ people will want to live in.
The current plans as shown shows what a complete mess we have at the moment.
The north west Metro if extended to St Mary's cannot be extended to the new airport as the overhead line voltage is different.
It is also possible presently to run the heavy rail from Leppington to Sydney Airport via Glenfield connection to the east hills line built years ago, as this was part of the new outer western Sydney rail network plan from the 1980's.
It seems ludicrous to build a Metro from St Mary's to the new airport & make it not compatible with existing Metro equipment, or is there some sinister plan afoot to extend it to Leppington then use this concept to slowly convert all the existing heavy rail corridor to a Metro through out Sydney over the next twenty to thirty years, as the former government had already started with the Chatswood to Epping & Bankstown line, two former Liberal ministers for Transport were hell bent on it, from what I use to see on the nighty news over the last ten years as part of their so called PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP (PRIVATISATION)
Hey Sharath, just out of curiosity do you live in western Sydney? I live near Edmondson Park and I've always hated travelling to Kingsford Smith airport, so when news of the new airport first came I was quite pleased to finally have a closer alternative. I just hope we do get those much needed rail extensions like you mentioned for the surrounding suburbs.
Mascot is only reaching capacity because it has a curfew. Why do western Sydney residents get treated like 2nd class citizens?
Agreed, same applies to ships that dock in Balmain being subject to curfews at night due to nearby residents - if you choose to live in one of the worlds largest tourism ports you should accept marine vehicle sounds
They plan to make a new city right near the new airport as well which is the whole reason why the current one is struggling so much nowadays. Do they really want another curfew after all the development happens around the airport
Because of Mt Duritt and poor migrants and working class live out that way. Same with south east and west Melbourne as well as Ipswich & Logan
Because removing the curfew is only a very-short term temporary solution.
There is absolutely NO space to expand KSIA and it would saturate quickly.
Like any major international city, a second airport was always a requirement for sustained growth.
You still can't explain why the North Shore gets a curfew & Western Sydney residents don't? I'll wait.
The different Metro power standards is land war in Asia level of idiocy. Having the change at Schofield's rather than a one line connection between Aeropolis and Chatswood. It is as if the Metro was chosen so it was not tied into Sydney Trains for union bashing and privatisation reasons
Same in mount druitt 😢
Exactly. It's all about ideology than rational transport planning. It's bad enough that the metro lines are incompatible with the existing Sydney Trains network, but when new metro lines are incompatible with existing metro lines, particularly when they can potentially directly connect, it's sheer incompetence. Sydney Metro seems to have taken over control of the whole rail network. It's become a rogue agency which is answerable to no-one and needs to be brought to heel, if not abolished altogether and its functions absorbed into Transport for NSW.
There is value in having shorter and more modular lines that alight and literally can't be made to go further.
@@exray1why would it be compatible when it literally can't run with other trains? Where you have no expectation of running freight, there should only be Metros.
@@blue-pi2kt Typical metro protagonist BS.
What does Transurban have to say about an inefficient rail link ?
Why the government haven't explored the possibility of having the Western Airport Metro directly connected to the two ends of the regular Sydney Metro (At Tallawong and Bankstown station). Essentially forming a huge loop Metro line. Making the travel easy in any direction. This solution is so obvious.
You should make a video about this.
It is insane that the government or whoever decided to have the Western Airport Metro's electrical power system to be completely different than the regular Sydney Metro. Making such Metro loop solution to be completely Not possible. I smell some conspiracy here. Some group or certain people are trying to protect their interests.
I really think that the concept of converting the SWRL to metro is a bad idea. The Metro should take the other proposed route to campbelltown and extend the SWRL to provide the inter-airport service.
I remember hearing they at least futureproofed by adding a tunnel under the runway parallel to the metro, to provide future railway services a right-of-way without digging under an active runway.
Also, until a hypothetical bankstown-airport line, the SWRL would be the only direct line from central to the new airport! Changing trains with luggage sounds like a hassle...
The metro lines don't pass under the runway, but parallel to it and in between that and the future second runway. The current station box and station infrastructure now under construction is only for the metro line from Bradfield to St Marys and the proposed extension of Metro West from Westmead, assuming it proceeds, will require a separate station box alongside it, for which provision has been made. If the Metro West extension doesn't proceed, as it's not supported by the Minns' government, then that opens the way for the SWRL to be extended from Bradfield to the Airport Terminal and Business Park as part of the existing Sydney Trains network with a more direct connection to the CBD. This should have been the priority in the first place.
the SW Rail link (Leppington) was ALWAYS the logical choice , the Metro from StMarys may ,
in time be proven to be Political not Practical
So , basically. Your saying,, the government does not have a clue, ie new speedway,, $100million. And now closed
Great clip. I'll take your 'playing devil's advocate' a bit further.
Bradfield expected his Sydney city train system to do the job until about the 1950s. It's served us well for far longer than that, in spite of some of it never being built. It has been helped by bits being added now and then, and double decking (originally just a cost saving way of increasing capacity, albeit with slower schedules than in the single deck days).
It's been so good that rail fans have sometimes seem to have had their thinking frozen in the 1950s. For example, I'm just old enough to remember the end of the era when, if you wanted to go serious shopping or see a movie, it necessarily meant going into central Sydney. It hasn't been like that for many decades. Even serious partying is easier these days in Parra or Penrith than at the Cross. So let me suggest an alternative way of looking at things:
Sydney is not one city but several. I'll refer to the main two as "Cliched Sydney" (you know, the touristy bits - Opera House, the Bridge, Manly Ferry, Bondi Beach, Taronga Park .....). Then there's "Real Sydney", where the real people, who do the real work, live; and have Red Rooster for dinner. I know this will come as a shock to those north-east of the RR line, but it means that:
- For most, Real Sydney no longer really needs old Cliched Sydney. Real Sydney is a city in its own right - the third biggest in population in the country in fact.
- Real Sydney is a real centre for a real transport system in its own right; not just something that primarily must connect to the old Cliched city with its old airport.
- Real Sydney is about to take off into a new tech industry era. Its surface transport system should do likewise - AC not DC - 25Kv not 1500v - AI driven not hand driven.
- It's Cliched Sydney that will need to catch up with Real Sydney, not Real Sydney that needs to conform with old transport cliches.
I'd suggest the current situation looks quite promising. For example:
- Take a drive along (say) Mamre Rd. Marvel at the employment and industry already under construction or moving in to take advantage of Real Sydney's development, long before the metro and airport is running.
- Note how far the BRT system already extends west from Liverpool, before chucking a right to head to Parramatta.
- Note how Glenfield station is amenable to cross-platform exchange between an extended Airport Metro and current Sydney Trains
- Note the available capacity of Liverpool to use their turn back for faster City via Regents Park services, once the Bankstown Metro is running.
- Note how Glenfield could also be used to turn back services currently going to/from Leppington (southern halves of current platforms 2 and 3 used for 3-4 car Metros on 25Kv - separated off and extended Northern ends of current platforms 2 and 3 used as turn backs on 1500 DC) - and that's just one possible arrangement.
Great summary of all the changes coming for Sydney, and just how much Sydney has changed in the past few decades.
Bradfield's rail network for the 1950's was at a time when Sydney has a quarter of the population, and Western Sydney was mostly farmlets.
My grandfather grew up in Bankstown back in the 1930's, and it was a small town in those days.
My other grandfather had houses in Cabramatta, in which half the blocks between Hill St and the Cumberland highway were vacant in the mid 1950's. Those vacant blocks only getting built upon after 1955.
Western Sydney needs to boost its major centres, and improve connectivity to those. Similar to how London is collection of numerous major centres that allow people to live and work within a 5-10km radius of the major CBD.
A large proportion of people would be better served by better connectivity within their LGA, than more direct connections to Sydney CBD.
What tourist is going to want to fly into Sydney and land all the way out there and catch a metro via St Mary's into the city?
ikr
The idea probably is that in however many years (10-30), surely by 2050 when they need the second runway, the area around the airport is going to be the destination itself. Aerotropolis, Bradfield City, all these optimistic things. Only time will tell
for very cheap flights.
The poor ppl will have to wait an extra hour just to get into the city. Or pay $20 one way via Domestic/International
If you’re a tourist you would just book a flight that lands at KSA, the same way that tourists heading to London would preference Heathrow over Luton or Gatwick.
Bus Rapid Transit is good but it should be built to allow a conversion to light rail one day to keep up with demand
As someone who's seen Glenfield go from a 3 platform terminus for the Bankstown line, when there wasn't a flyover for the T8, to what it is now; a rail link would be incredibly easier as you'd simply have T2/T5 continue to Macarthur on Platform 3 (up on 2) where they already stop at Glenfield, and have the T8 use the Leppington flyover for Aerotropolis/Terminal from platform 4 (1 on up) not to mention no confusion on calling it the airport line, as it serves both of them. A metro to Glenfield would require a complete redesign of the station and tracks and would honestly result in a complete shutdown of the station worse than Bankstown is copping currently, which would cripple dare I say the entire train network. PS I also like the idea of connecting places like Narellen and Mt Annan to metro/rail, it'd help people get to Macarthur/Campbelltown
The best part about the new airport is that The Northern Road has been upgraded and now you can go motorway speeds between Penrith and Campbelltown without having to pay the M7 toll because they haven't built most of the intersections yet
Currently the speed limit on the new Northern Road is 80kmh, not motorway speeds just yet.
Yeah Northern Road really is a free version of the M7 at the moment - given that you are happy to travel on the M4 to head back east 😂
The speed limit of the northern road is slower than what it was before the upgrade. Used to be 90 now its 80
@@russellmoore1533i dont think the northern road will ever be highway speed in the future because of all the traffic lights.
Fastest I've been on that road is 75km because the idiots were side by side blocking the road
Good video!
Thanks Reece!
Reece - you should definitely consider coming back down under and join up with Sharath and Paul.
I’ve been a fan of all three of you guys for a while now and this would be a dream collaboration for me, being a Sydneysider.
I’d happily take you around Chatswood to discuss the pros and cons as I know you think it’s a great transport hub.
Also for all three of you guys, you’ll be my first paid subscriptions as soon as I’m a little more financially solvent as I think you are all worth it and I love what you do.
I'm watching from very far away. It could be just me, but I get the impression that any real investment in improving or expanding the existing Sydney Trains is viewed by the powers that be as old fashioned and so "last century," while the new Metro is sleek, modern, and most importantly, driver-less. The unspoken goal is doing away with the human labour issue; I admit that sounds a bit conspiratorial, but may be actually true.
You're quite correct. This is more about ideology than objective transport planning by the previous Liberal state government to sideline the unionised Sydney Trains network, when it should be bleedingly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the simplest and least expensive option is to extend the SWRL from Leppington to the airport terminal and business park, not just the Aerotropolis, as a first stage. But that wouldn't have suited the previous government's agenda in extending the existing rail network, so against all rational reasoning, they gave it a low priority when it should have been the first priority.
This video has actually given me more hope, thanks for the different perspective.
I'd argue extending the metro from tallawong to Schofield's with an across platform link to airport metro extended from St Mary's would be a better option than extending from St Mary's to tallawong.
This would enable a better transfer and with an extension from aerotropolis to Glenfield it would be great.
I wonder if a full conversion of T8 would make sense... probably not, just a thought bubble.
T8 is already quadruplicated so it could work if you convert in from Macarthur to Kingsford Smith using the outer line. The trains would have to stop all stations to revesby then Express to airport via wolli Creek. All stations from Revesby could alternatively use sydenham, St peters and erskineville which are major hubs that will be fully reliant on the t4 line when Bankstown undergoes conversion.
Another thought, instead of using the existing T8, build a new greenfield route near to or parallel to the T8. This may be between T8 and T3 (future M1 metro), or south of the T8. Around Kingsford Smith, link up with the connections w Kogarah, Airport and Eastern Suburbs metro. It is completely radical but at least would preserve Sydney Trains traffic. It would prbly more feasible tho for it to go to Liverpool either the existing T2 T5 track from Gfield or new routing and then to M1 Bankstown.
My opinion that macquarie ahould be sydneys second cbd, it has 2 metro stations 1 for the business area and 1 for the shopping and transit area, get buses anywhere close to epping also
Building/extending a north-south rail link has even more benefits to residents of north-west, west, and south-west Sydney outside of the airport existing, too. As it currently stands, a resident of Richmond that wishes to transit to, say, Camden, is faced with a 3+ hour journey if they were to use the existing public transit system. And that's just to effectively stay in the same city! Alternatively, they could drive, and it'd take just about an hour. This applies for residents of Penrith, albeit their journey is about 50 minutes shorter by transit, and 25 minutes shorter by car.
Additionally, south-west and north-west Sydney have seen the largest population growth in the metropolitan area, and as you mentioned in the video, they are more than likely going to be the ones making use of the new airport. Couple the north-south transit with an extention to the Leppington line, and we'll have a fantastic rail system in place and ready for the new airport.
It'd be a disaster if we're stuck here playing catch-up after the airport opens. We are effectively three years away now, and the current plans under construction do not provide adequate connections in my humblest opinion.
Great video as usual, dude!
With the capability of the new airport to expand terminals and add a 2nd run way, and with the rail line not connecting both airports directly..... what is the likelihood the state government will sell off Kingsford Smith ???
The poor rail link choices made will cause the new Western Sydney airport to become the next Montréal-Mirabel International Airport.
The thing is...How much will it cost to travel by Train? Its a rip-off already on the Airport Line they have now. Will we be paying the same prices or hopefully way cheaper than what we have to pay now.
These vids would be so great if the presenter didn't have a huge LISP!
Aerotroplis is a joke name right?
really they should connect the metro to Leppington and tallawong while they buliding this new line even if both ends are finished by the time the airport opens it will be better than nothing
5 billion dollars extra and a circuitous route to ensure the trains are driverless
10:18 what the hell? The current existing double-deck trains that go to Kingsford Smith Airport do not have luggage storage facilities. And even during peak times going to both the international and domestic airports from Central are perfectly fine.
Quick high capacity public transport between Kingsford Smith and the Western Sydney Airport in a necessity on days of high wind. The day before this video was released was one such day, and Kingsford Smith Airport was confined to its single east-west runway, cutting the landing and takeoff capacity by one third. Many flights were delayed or cancelled throughout Australia, so it's not just a Sydney problem. If airlines could quickly reroute their flights to Western Sydney Airport this would be preferable to completely cancelling flights. However, to make this work the surface transport system needs to capacity to move large numbers of passengers quickly at short notice between the airports. Buses would need prior planning to ensure vehicles and drivers are available, whereas the proposed rail link would enable this capacity.
One thing I want to know is how frequent are trains to St Marys and is that being upgraded in any way shape or form?
I reckon the new airport will be more freight focused as well.
There's an important reason the Southwest rail link should be extended to the airport soonest. The new airport will, at least in its early years, be largely a FREIGHT airport (no curfew makes it far more attractive for this than Mascot). But it has no link to NSW's extensive freight rail network (the best in the country by some margin). In particular, it has no freight rail links to any seaports. The M5 and M7 are going to see an awful lot of extra B-doubles on them ...
A few years ago the northern rd from Narellan to Penrith was upgraded to make it three lanes each way. But one of these lanes is marked as a bus lane. After Oran Park you don’t see any busses in it. Is this not the rapid link to the airport? Or is is supposed to be uninterrupted?
I live In the upper Blue Mountains so the new rail line from St Mary's will certainly be convenient for people out west. I lived in Liverpool for many years therefore I believe the rail line ought to be extended from Leppington to the new airport. It just makes sense.
I'm from the Tallawong/Schofields area (another botched PT job, they're only a few kms away and the metro should have been extended to terminate at Schoies), and the direct rail line to the airport will be great. Much better than always having to transfer at Blacktown or Parra to get into the city on the train, or Epping/Chatswood for the metro terminus.
I live in St Marys I amazed how people have no idea of how bad thing are going to be when this airport opens
Yeh poor tourist having to change trains at st Mary’s or put up with Eshays at my duiritt
If you are referring to noise levels, have a look at the directions and distances involved. The WSI runway alignment is towards the Mt Druitt to Rooty Hill area, and the distance is roughly equivalent to an area like Hunters Hill is from Sydney's main runways. If anyone has cause for complaint is will more likely to be the well heeled residents of somewhere like Mt Vernon, which (while a bit off the first runway centreline) is a lot closer to it. Then again, I live close to under an airport approach and love it.
All that green land in the space between stations....oh boy! can't wait for more Marsden Park like housing!
They should have built a loop-type Metro like many citys around the world have. But like most construction in Australia between the Unions and government regulations things are just far too slow to build and far too expensive to build.
Okay, as someone who works in Transport and has engineering experience, I have to call you out on a couple of things you said.
1. The Airport Metro isn’t just a different voltage, it’s also wider than than the other two. That means it isn’t compatible with either. This would mean an interchange would have to be built instead of just joining them together.
2. The T2 Leppington line is already configured to run on the T8 Airport Line, as the do run the occasional service from Leppington via the Airport during the week and during track work on weekends.
3. Converting the T2 Leppington Line to metro will actually cause more problems than it solves. The T2 Leppington line also carries the T5 services to Parramatta and Blacktown. Switching this would reduce T8 services to the Airport when the plan is to increase the number after the Bankstown line is shut down for the metro, which would free up the space for an increase in T8 services, either from Campbelltown or Leppington. The T5 and T2 services would suffer from the congestion this would cause, as there are few other locations to terminate services.
4. The regular suburban trains already have luggage racks. The former Interurban Tangara’s (G sets) have them and so do the OSCARS, which will be turned over to suburban running when the new intercity trains enter service (NIF’s). Installation of luggage racks on other sets would be relatively straightforward.
As for possible solutions, these would be my suggestions,
1. The simplest quick solution is to complete the Metro Airport line to the same standard as the Metro West line and connect the two. This would connect Parramatta directly to the Airport, allow many new suburbs access to public transport as well as a link to the city directly, instead of changing to heavy rail on the most congested line in the Sydney Rail Network.
2. Extend the existing SWRL (Leppington) Line to the airport, having both metro and heavy rail parallel to each other, with the heavy rail line either looping back to Macarthur (which would allow trains to do a continuous loop instead of terminating at Leppington or Macarthur) and /or run it towards Penrith joining the line around Western Sydney University (this would give the university a rail station and duplication of the existing rail line to Penrith would reduce congestion at Penrith with suburban, intercity and freight rail traffic)
3. When the existing rolling stock for the Northwest and Bankstown metro is nearing the end of its life, change the voltage of the overhead to the same voltage as the other metro lines, standardised all rolling stock to the same standard and then connect the Airport metro line with the northwest via Schofields.
I’m speaking to much logic, so this will never happen.
Needs to link the 2 airports, use planes. Very quick and both have landing areas
Not really. Very few transfers at Sydney airports, and those that do occur will still occur at SYD, not WSI.
The only way I see a rail connection as being necessary would be in the future if say regional flights are shifted to WSI.
Remember buses to most of the transfer work in London and Tokyo, ports where each airport has a more defined role.
@@mark123655 WSI will eventually replace kingsford smith but due to lack of political will i can only really seen it serving Domestic + flights to NZ or Bali, a bit like Adelaide or Cairns airports. I think most carriers will stick to SYD due to more demand. Western sydney airport isn't meant to serve all of Sydney, just the west of Sydney
Unless there is political will to close it.. won't be replaced. Sydney's geographic centre is now moving back east due to more MDUs in the East.
SYD Kingsford Smith isn't going anywhere
Why did they change the power standard of the new metro?
Hi Sharath! I was wondering if you could do a video exploring why the Fairford Rd interchange is such a choke point on the M5 and what (if anything) could be done to improve traffic flow.
Partly because the A6 has so many traffic lights and is predominantly two lanes. Plus has Bankstown shopping centre car park intersects directly with a major A road, with traffic backing up all the way back south to the interchange.
The other reason is there's no North-South metro. No Hurstville-Strathfield metro, or any other configuration of north south lines, so people are forced to drive.
Thanks for a nice video that analysed the options and issues well.
To go slightly off the topic of Metros/HR/buses, etc, describing Western Sydney Airport's location as "nowhere" is a bit misleading. There are already plenty of people there in Western Sydney and the Blue Mountains, and THEIR health relative to the WSA noise and pollution will be important, ESPECIALLY as the airport is meant to be encouraging development of residential areas nearby. Having no curfew is NOT a good idea. The flight paths may need adjustment too. Ask someone from (say) Marrickville, what they would think of lifting curfews for KSA!
I’m excited for the new airport as somebody who lives in western Sydney, but as somebody who works in the public service. The thing that really worries me is, that airport is going to be a major freight airport, and it’s going to be 24 seven, and all of the freight will need to leave the airport by Road. Not having a traditional train link to throw massive amounts of freight on let alone passengers just seems like stupidity. Put it this way, an actual train link is going to need to be built someday, almost everybody knows it, and yet it’s not being done. And when it will be done, it will cost a shitload more when there is more stuff in the way that needs to be bought back. Again, it’s just dumb. The existing roads are expected to take an increased amount of Passenger traffic and an increased amount of freight to traffic. It’s just completely unreasonable to think that this would have a major knock on effect to the surrounding communities. A proper rail link would give options for Passenger and freight trains to get people in and out of there quickly without jamming up the roads more than will already occur
There is a solution to that over the Southwest rail link get more D sets because they have the necessary luggage racks. Option 2 combined D and H sets run to the Nancy bird Walton Airport via the existing Kingsford Smith Airport due to Both trains having luggage racks. 11:40 that can be solved by ordering a new batch of Sydney Metro Alstom Metropolis Dual voltage 25kv 50hz 1.5kv DC
NSW loves to have different rails run independently by different companies. Monorail was by itself. New built L2 & L3 are different from L1. Existing Bankstown Line cannot run Metro though they are on the same standard gauge. 2 more brand new Metro Lines in Syd will be free standing without any connection to North West & Bankstown Metro.
Should have asked you this in your Q+A, but do you think that International and Domestic stations will have to be renamed?
I still don't get why they chose to go with 25kV considering the other metro lines and the entire electrified NSW rail network is 1500V. Yeah, 25kV is the better and more ubiquitous system, but it's introducing an incompatibility unless the metro stock is dual voltage.
Regarding the rail links, I think there should be both a NSW state rail link _and_ a metro line. Multiple connections and multiple options to get there from different places.
Unless there is freight demand to the airport, why build both? The State Rail Network is literally slower.
for christ sake get the information right
KINGSFORD SMITH AIRPORT not Kingston you dope
Maybe Sydney metro should get the option to be converted to double decker usage as it does also provide a useful link with 2 normal double decker lines so it only makes sense if regular trains can use it plus it would be more comfortable for passenger usage. Heck not to mention it could also open up extra western only regions. Such as a direct link between Macarthur and the Blue Mountains via western Sydney airport which when you think about it does make far more sense than just 1 silly little metro line.
So how do I get to the new Western Sydney airport from Sydney's Northshore by rail with a large suitcase,an oversized snowboard bag, a backpack and cabin wheelie bag without having to take a bus a train and another train and possibly another train ? So if you don't live north west or west of Sydney forget trying to get to the new airport? Sounds worse then Victoria's Tallamarine and Avalon Airport situation. I mean who goes to Avalon airport unless you are going to The Mornington Peninsula? No plans for a rail line between the 2 airports (hardly getting a rail line to Tallamarine aiport) only the skybus shuttle buses?! Buslinks ? From where?
Kingsford Smith airport was located out in the middle of nowhere when aircraft first started using it
Extending the Metro and converting the southwest rail link to metro would create to many headaches for the rest of the train network. Firstly everyone from the airport would have to transfer and secondly it would create a lot of reverse branches between the T2,T5,T8 + any intercity services with another potential from trains running via Sefton to be extended.
This choo choo train they are building is going to take hours for people to get to the city and they will be like sardines with all the other Sydney commuters. How embarrassing! In any other developed country a high speed bullet train would transport passengers to the city in 15 min.
Extend Leppington Line a bit then 2 Syd Airports can be connected via 1 change at Glenfield & people from Campbelltown can still reach Central in 1 hour.
I don't get Sydney Metro? Why is the metro mostly running out side of city limits and heavy gauge used as a metro....ok as an ex Sydneysider I understand Sydney Rail and it's history, improvement is always great. Linking this Metro from Tallawang to Scholfields to Leppington is a no brainer,
Leppington is a Sydney Trains Yard it also can be The Metro Yard South and be a Major transfer terminus, Having an Express Sydney Train from Leppington with newly designed carriages for Airport Commuters and luggage which run every 20-30 mins Leppington - Liverpool -Central.
On the Northern Link there has to be many many more stations otherwise Sydney metro can not be proclaimed a "Metro" it's more like 1/2 circular link around the Sydney basin, like 99% of true Metro's Networks in the world Paris, Singapore, Shanghai, Tokyo, Berlin or Moscow, Sydney has a long long long way to go.. Sydney Metro is fantastic but it will be worth less if it does not integrate with Sydney Trains, Light Rail and the Bus system.
The other obvious connection is Baggery's Creek/ Nancy Bird Walton/ Sydney West Airport To Parramatta -Central. No other stops. I would like your thoughts on this route as it will have to integrate with current infrastructure and timetables to achieve a true City / Airport Express connection via South West and West/North West Sydney
This connection is the Important and underlining factor for Sydney to be a World City.
Note: NSW Politics get it only 1/2 right, WTF with Richmond Line Connection and The Carlingford / Epping Connection!! Only in Australia.
😱 OH NO, Walkable neighbourhoods! ! ! ! ! 15 Minute CITIES, Shock, People will be LOCKED in NOT ALLOWED OUT, Gasp HORROR people will be forever CYCLING around the periphery looking for a way out, just as that Chris Topher dude does.
Its st marys. There is no way out
Everyone crammed into apartments around trains stations, yay!
15 minute city don’t force you to do it, they encourage you
@@lovelyhurlin6494you'd rather drive 2 hours each way by SUV to work each day?
It sure would have made the most sense but I suspect the metro will find it's way to Liverpool eventually from the airport.
And that southerly extension will greatly reduce the viability of an extension from Leppington, unless there is more housing development closer to the airport.
@@mark123655
Syd Metro & Melbourne Metro love to sell air rights to developers because this is the core profit concept of that 60% shareholder from HK. However, look at the rural properties around Western Sydney Airport, so unlikely high rise like Mascot & Green Sq can be copied in near future.
We call Sydney Airport 'Mascot'. Westies will call the new airport 'Badgerys Creek'. Short and succinct.
The main problem is that West Airport is deadborn project. Melbourne tried the same with Avalon... failed, of course, Airservice even removed 24h tower service from there recently. So traffic to/from airport itself will be zero, at least for foreseeable future, and even after - who will travel to airport by trains, with changes, long waiting time and first of all coming to station with all bags? So station use will be worse than in Leppington, huge station between cow pastures and garbage dumps. 2nd - main lines are already overloaded (mostly near the city, but it affects other ends too, its impossible to increase traffic in Campbeltown without changes near City), so
So the single resonable use of trains there is just local transit. All these hamsters nests like Oran Pk to StMarys where commerce and industry based, north-south. Exactly as long plan shows - Campbeltown-OranPk-Airport-StMarys-Schofield. And even in this case it takes many years to fill capacity, when all these nests and wheels for hamsters will be built along the line. Possible Leppington-Airport link is fine, of course, but will not do anything useful for 30 years at all.
In fact first that should be done with Sydney Rail is to completely change the very idea, scrap 100 years old approach from steam era and adopt Sbahn technology. Central tunnel in Munich serves a train every 2 minutes for 50 years (and it allows 20 min intervals on periferal lines), 30 per hour each direction, and what we have here, with similar trains? oops.
It's stupid. Not part of the train system. Changing at St Mary's 4:43 will be crap.
KL has an EXPRESS CITY rail link.
your logic is clearly flawed. This link is giving a much larger population travel by TRAIN and short car trips for LOCAL people in South West .
your solution would have meant long CAR trips for rest of Sydney and short METRO trips for locals.
Airports are about giving fast access to majority of people
There is NO reason NOT to connect Leppington to WSA. Such a small section for great redundancy benefit. Lost opportunity.. as usual.
there just so much incompetence you'd have to wonder if there was corruption involved. probably. most likely.
Sounds like what happened with Melbourne Tularmarine airport. We'll build a rail-line (this was said when it was proposed in the 1960's) now it's 2023 and their still saying We'll build a rail-line.
Tallowong west past Richmond... possibly right to Lithgow would give a second transport option west, opening up even more opportunities
New South Wales: where government and private companies have no fucking idea how to build any form of infrastructure...
I cannot fathom why we're building "metro"' style trains out the middle of nowhere.
These trains are supposed to be in high density, inner suburbs, not 50km from the CBD.
The slow and pointless tram should have been a metro. This should have been a normal heavy rail train line.
Camden desperately needs their own rail line. The Campbelltown line is swamped and they shouldn't have to drive so far for service
Coming soon, Aerotropolis to Glenfield, Sydneys' newest "uncrossable zone"!
Firstly. I totally agree with your transport plan for Sydney. Great work and forethought. Who will travel on the metro to the airport. Those on the st marys line. Its a long way to travel without other interconnecting services from the city. I guess taxis and ubers will get rich when it opens. Why on earth did the metro stop at Tallawong. Brainless planning. Makes more work for everyone else. They could have at least connected it to schofields. Such poor planning and foresight. Totally unimpressed.
Haven't got a clue what you're on about but found it very entertaining.
Have u thought of becoming a comedian....you've got the chops 😅
I think the fact it’s being built will attract developers there. And with Sydney’s growing population it’s only a matter of time
Actually it would makes more sense that the metro line being converted at Sydenham to Liverpool be the train route to Western Sydney airport. That means us Sutherland Wollongong folk can easily change at Sydenham but i wonder if they realised that they have train line conversion under construction that could be the next east west link on a Metro line.? Then eventually in 20 years us can transfer at Hurstville..aaahh what a dogs breakfast this always happens when the state government changes i bet well end up driving to Western blahbalah airport and leaving our car at one of many multideck car parks 😢94 take your keys valet el cheapo carlots.
Extend the southwest rail line further out west towards the mountains for future residential growth and also spur off the southwest rail line to the Western Sydney Airport to give commuters more transport options. A St Marys to Macurthur metro line should also be completed. 😊
They need to join the dots to create an outer ring metro line and give it a catchy name like the “Sydney Superloop”. If only the same driverless trains could be used they could run continuously in both directions around the loop.