The Talent Code - Draftsmen S3E27
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- What is talent? Are we born with it, or can it be nurtured and encouraged in anyone? This time, Stan and Marshall are back in the Draftsmen studio to talk about Daniel Coyle’s book, The Talent Code. They talk about how to grow your own talent, ways to practice, and how to change your mindset to help yourself flourish.
CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Intro
2:32 - A Brief History of Draftsmen Book Reviews
6:05 - The Talent Code
9:07 - Individual Differences
13:00 - Explanation of Terms
15:15 - The Value of Mistakes
19:45 - Deep Practice
24:33 - Art Practice
27:13 - Ignition
35:20 - What Does Marshall Root For?
38:33 - Importance of Role Models
43:50 - Identity and Competition
46:00 - Hotbeds
51:58 - Myelin
57:56 - Using Previous Knowledge
1:02:15 - Coaching
1:05:06 - Creative and Technical Skills
1:17:48 - Changing Your Attitude Toward Failure
SHOW LINKS (some contain affiliate links):
Dodgeball Clip - • Dodgeball: A True Unde...
The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance by Josh Waitzkin - amzn.to/3AUsfFU
The Psychology of Performance by Eddie O’Connor - amzn.to/3lPRgOe
Psycho-Cybernetics - amzn.to/3lQx6U6
The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle - amzn.to/3vmXJmK
Expressionism - Draftsmen S3E14 - www.proko.com/553
The Natural Way to Draw by Nicolaides - amzn.to/2Z2eEyN
Notan example by Z. Davis -
static.proko.com/media/images...
Ken Burns: Country Music - amzn.to/2XsMuwK
Devil Girl from Mars - amzn.to/3AUukBq
The Last Dance- Michael Jordan Documentary - amzn.to/3vmNPSl
Robert Greenberg - robertgreenbergmusic.com/
Kim Jung Gi - www.proko.com/380
Dogtown and Z-Boys: amzn.to/3DQQczI
Rembrandt - static.proko.com/media/images...
Ben Zhu - www.gallerynucleus.com/artist...
Morgan Weistling - www.morganweistling.com/instr...
static.proko.com/media/images...
“Draftsmen” is available in audio. Subscribe on these platforms to keep up to date:
Spotify: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodSp
Stitcher: bit.ly/2JLMShh
Apple: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodA
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#thetalentcode #artpractice #talent
FOLLOW PROKO:
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN:
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Alex Otis ( / alexotisillustration , Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh , Ellie Polk ( / the.mccartski )
Editing - Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
What types of practice have you found most helpful in nurturing your own talent?
as stan said, focusing on what you want to learn and practicing only that subjects rather than just following 10000 hrs rule
When something is difficult for me to draw, I know I am on the right track. When that happens, I look at the references online and try to learn by looking and observing. After that I try to draw what I understood, not what I saw. Rinse and repeat until I am satisfied with the results.
@@captainbloth I can relate to this...
Drawing what you love lets you learn the things you need and makes problem solving less daunting. Of course you need to keep in mind what you are practicing, but wrapping that into a topic you enjoy is just a great way not to get disheartened.
For example drawing a cool looking elf archer girl still requires you to focus on gesture, proportion and anatomy... but it feels more at home than just drawing a random figure! (Unless you are falling behind on drawing human ears, tough luck then...)
studying references and messing with perspective
Some of us know exactly what Marshall means about not being concerned who is winning and just rooting for the enjoyment of the arts.
When I see you both back to the studio i wanna cry for the years that past
When I was a child, I received high praise at an early age because I was good at art. This led me not to practice and stunted my growth. I thought I was already good so why practice, right? It wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized I had a lot to learn and a lot more practice to do.
Talent is the speed of learning.
I'm with Marshall; I can enjoy sports without rooting on any team (or even when my favorite team is losing - good game is a good game), I can be happy to the success of others, my competition is myself.
Regarding "how to practice improvisation?" (from the perspective of blues and jazz): Transcribe - i.e. a master study. For example, learn Miles Davis' improv on 'so what'.
Play the chord tones over the chord progression - teaches you how each note sounds in relation to each chord in the passage
Play scales over the chord progression - teaches you the 'in between' notes of the chords being played
Play with the melody - take the main melody of the song (usually the part that can be sung/has lyrics/is played first by the lead instrument) and slowly incorporate embellishments. In essence, a good solo/improv will be closely related to the main melody.
There's more, but this is a great start for most learning how to improv. You need to build your 'vocabulary' of musical phrases to use. It is very much like learning a language.
Watching Stan make the conversation with Marshall uncomfortable is pure comedy, their chemistry is golden. I listen to them as I paint and just laugh and laugh. Welcome back to the studio!
Marshall saying 'ok' after the movie bit was comedy gold
I also was always unsure what the "it's the draftsmen show"-part in the intro was saying xD I thought it said "Who needs the draftsmen show?" and then I always happily said "Meeee!"
Marshall never knew what the into said, but me neither! :D
It's good to know.
I love the little yelps of laughter in the background
haha, other than editing, that's my main contribution to the podcast
I alternate between painting and watching videos slideshows of great masters to find their solutions to my challenges.
Legends are back in the studio. I can't be happier
I’m glad to learn I’m not alone that when it comes to sports; I don’t care who wins I admire impressive feats or plays no matter what team they're on. Also that you’re back in the studio.
Soon you'll be seeing artists shooting myelin into their brain screaming "MYELINNNNNN YEEEAAAAAHHH!!!" and having myelin rage.
For deep learning, proper analysis and consideration of weakness is vital. To identify the absolute most important areas of study to focus on, and for each area to identify the most important elements that will allow you to move towards your goals fastest. Really take the time to consider this as the better the insights, the more effective you can be. You know you've hit the jackpot when you find a tiny detail that when extrapolated will completely transform your entire process and the way you approach your practice. For art, something like perspective and form is great to nail early on, but something potentially less obvious to nail (for my goals) is the art of expression. To tap into what inside of you and unleash it. Some people do this intuitively, some of us need to focus on our mental health for years to get good at it lol.
My greater point is that there's always something a layer deeper to target and conquer that will revolutionize your practice with each new evolution. Something that extrapolates through the entire chain of mastery and gives you a 1.5x multiplier each time you conquer it. Those multipliers *really* add up the longer you keep at it.
Personally, my discoveries come through frequent observation of the craft in question and identifying all commonalities I can come up with that the best craftsmen / works have. Trying to figure out the things that they can do that seem important that I'm not good at. The better you get at what you do, the more insights open up. You find increasingly important observations as your intuition improves.
Is that a Bob Ross plushie in the pedestal? 😂anyway, great to see you guys in the same room again!
Interesting Side note:
There is also another layer to the brain growth, related to brain areas,
During new activities you are mostly using the prefrontal cortex to keep focus and manage the overall task, but the prefrontal cortex is a sort of manager, not a specific motion controller, it is a conscious process, highly dependent on sugar and wears down quickly.
With repeated practice, those motions are migrated and stored at the cerebellum, where automatic processes function on the background, like walking, or riding a bike, or driving, or playing piano.
You can then build upon those skills by spending conscious energy again on further developing those gestures, because you can now focus on more things.
WOO HOO BACK IN THE STUDIO!!
I think its primarily one thing: Intense desire for mastery as a result of a deep passion for your craft. Whether it's for intrinsic or extrinsic reasons, the commonality is a passion to make great work. From this point, everything else emerges. You find the paths to take because it's very important to you. It's something you care about deeply. That's where deep learning naturally comes in and seeking out the best learning materials and critiques for your work among other things. This is why people drop out of school and go on to become wildly successful, they see the through-line and do what they think is best for them. Live your life that way and you'll definitely end up somewhere interesting.
This was such a good book, loved how motivating it is to improve in skill when you are given “Concrete” physical examples of “Why” and “How” you improve.
I want to share how much I appreciate your content. Let me introduce myself first that I was a draftsman in high school 1998, and we drew machine parts mostly about machines like lathe or drilling. My point is, I was told that our drafting skills was no longer relevant and was obsolete. I was hurt because I felt I was not valued. Fast forward, I have my own studio now doing manga, and the gap of learning about the arts of drawing from that time when I was high school up until now where I have background in multimedia computer science and some background in architecture, I kind of learning it from your podcasts...they are very useful and replenishing...
🎶Doot doo doo doo doot doodle loo do its the Draftsman show!🎶
_yea!_
Ahh this makes me so happy to see Marshall in the studio again.
That said; Marshall, get closer to the mic!! 😂 The Shure SM7 loves closeness, doesn't like distance
Damn I'm so glad I stuck to the ending, its the most awkward funny ending I ever saw on any podcast
I MISS THE STUDIO❤️❤️❤️
Humans are social creatures! Good to see you back to the studio!!
Yay, back in the studio! Great to see you two together (aww) again!
Now, that conversation about talent, skill, environment, etc. made me think of one thing: Have you guys stumbled (not literally, please) on twins that one has one kind of talent that the other doesn't? Like, one's an artist, and the other is an accountant.
I love the clarification in your comment loll
the studio!! I missed it so much, glad to see you back. I can't believe how much i got used to the zoom calls that now the studio version feels weird even though it's the original. damn
All your reviews of books, Artists , the importance of traditional training in art.
YEAH the STUDIO again!!!
So happy to see you both back in studio. Also that transition from Vince saying "okay" to Marshall had me dying. Thanks for all that you do.
seeing them back in the studio gave me such a burst of joy lol, great content as always ♥ I adore listening to these so much
Back in the old studio!!!
Yes I’m so happy to have you guys back in person!
This was awesome, I’m so happy to see you guys back in the studio
Holysh!t; its surreal to see the studio return ⚡️💖 so good
The ending was absolutely hilarious and I'm here for it
Love the works on the wall.
Yay! Stan and Marshall together again! Nice~
this studio is sth else
good to see u guys here
Hey Marshall, i understand your point of not caring about sports. All my life i ve never cared about teams, i remember when i was a child people around me watching futbol (or soccer however its called) and it was tremendously boring (im from south america, futbol is a big thing here). I do liked basketball but i have never cared about watching matches. Same for video games. At first i though it was because i rather "play" those sports/game rather than watching them but then i noticed i do liked to watch sports when in context with a movie (ie. a movie about sports). Now i think i don't care about competitions (including Olympic games) because, for me, they just dont tell a story, and i feel separated from whatever is happening there. Anyway that's what i have concluded xd. Cheers!
Great show! The end made me think of the movie Dodge Ball - "If you could dodge a wrench, you could dodge a ball." LOL
Great chapter. I always end up laughing, learning and having a great time watching this.
🤣👍👍👍🌞😃 YEA!!! Back in the studio! Didn't think this day would come. Awesome!
I love these podcasts. I find that concept of enforcing a habit strengthens the myelin being fascinating. Worth noting that Neural myelin is the insulating layer around the nerves. I love this podcast.
There needs to be a calendar or otherwise merch of these thumbnails. This is one of my favs! 🤣😂 As an artist with a background in sports I found this conversation highly entertaining and helpful. This has been on my reading list. Now it's moved up the list. 🙏
nice that they’re back , and has stan been hitting the weights lol
I'm happy to see them both at the studio😭
Good to see you 2 back together, proko 2.0 has been amazing as well!
I would love to listen to a revised version of this episode lol
the clasic format , i double checked if this is an older episode :D , great
I keep getting amazed at Marshall's insane memory...
When I began watching your podcasts, I always heard "Who needs a dressman's shoe?"
Can you guys make playlist with all the book reviews, would apreciate it 👍
that was the best outtro ever! XD
Watch til the end. Very worth it ★★★★
The stuff about kids born at specific dates having higher chance to succeed in sports leagues was in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books.I think it was Outliers, but not entirely sure.
Marshall…I am exactly like you (an outlier) in not caring about who wins. I never understood competition. Support of others independent of winning or losing is what I feel is important.
The 2 portraits next to Marshall are realy nice. Who did those?
Back!
ay! studio videos are back 😁
Like that saying, "Those who can do, those who cannot, teach." Is that applicable?
Yesss I missed the studio
Best ending!
Yes!!!!!!! The awkward intros are back 😂💥💥
I wanna know who did all the paintings and drawings on the wall they're wonderful 😚
Always thought the jingle was "I got my draftin' shooooes"...well the actual words make a lot more sense...
Same here 😊 "I've got to draft my shoooes!"
Finally!!!!
"That was the worst ending"
WRONG. That was the best ending I laughed my ass off
in this competition about competition i was ooting for marshall
YEAAHHHHHHHHHHH, FINALYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Please keep the awkward outros, this was golden XD
Will you ever do a draftsman session on Animation?
That's a drawing by Amaya Gurpide behind Marshall???
Omg, please, someone get the charcoal piece that stay on the wall on the left right of Marshall in line with the other on the wall :P This off set it´s bothering me SO MUCH hahahahaha
Nice stream ;)
Love you too Stan xD
I also kept hearing the word "shoes" in the intro 😃
I haven't read the book yet but the knowledge of Myelin is kinda depressing to me to be honest, since I started my art in my late 20s.
There is a point where it'll "peak out." At that point, to get better/faster, you'll have to have a bit of stress. Shorten the time it takes you to perform a task. Introduce a slight amount more complexity in the gesture. Same old means same old=No growth/stagnation
Is mylin (sp?) like adding wrinkles to your brain? Once I heard that learning something new is adding a wrinkle to your brain (as a good thing), I found myself accepting challenges. When I work through my first drafts and mistakes and finally see I did whatever it was correctly, I celebrate “Well, at least I have a new wrinkle!”
13:42 "You can get good at something by focused strategic practice that is just a little bit beyond our current abilities."
I think this needs to be emphasised. The way they focused so much on getting outside your comfort zone and seeking mistakes made it sound like you should be throwing yourself in at the deep end and constantly moving on from things the moment you start to get comfortable. That approach is not supported by anything I've read and does not seem to be what this book is advocating either.
Easier said than done but failure is simply embracing reality. Fear of failure is fear of the truth, that you have areas you need to improve. Running from failure is running from inevitable progress that you have to face one day, so when do you plan on facing it?
Have you heard the story of the guy who got the 1640 on the SAT and was a D sudent
Turns his life around starts going to class starts studying and goes to a community college and on to open a fortune 500 business
30 years later he gets a letter saying he got a 700 and was sent the wrong score.
The most of the story when he started acting like a 1640 he got the results.
Thumbnail: 100🌟
Draw with your eyes closed -- look, then close eyes and draw what you saw. This is optical telephone.
How about the exercise of Drawing without moving your marking tool off of the paper?
And, I 'm sure as teachers you have a zillion other 5-10 minute warm-up exercises that actually also qualify as what Coyle is referring to as chunking exercises intended to broaden art students' skill sets.
So thats what it says!!
CREW
they even think to show an example, of keep doing it even after a failure, at the outro
(Opinion before watching :D)
Outside of exceptionally good memory conditions and such, i do not believe in talent, not a bit, because its asociated with being from birth you are meant to have that x talent you have and it just doesnt go that way. Not for nobody, the issue is it takes a long life and psychological profile to notice a few patterns in your life that pushed your brain to have "a feel" of what works. There's a ton of ideas, concepts and how they come to be that can be talked about, its a condition that can have different degrees of "talent", and sometimes can be nurtured from mere casualities (or influences) at a really young age that push their "do art" (or, insert any activity/career) development on and on, which people dont tend to remember (or be conscious of it) and the ones around them just arrive to the point "that person has talent, i do not". But as this is only a youtube comment, perhaps it'd be better to hear for people in the comments on how do you become talented...
Select an artist, or collect art, that greatly inspires you, dont perhaps over analyze it, be like a kid, feed yourself on it, get a feel for all that you like and all you'd want to use to transmit what you wanna show in your art, at least at first it'll influence you to start out, at the same time you might have a big sheet of paper where to do scribbles, whatever you want... have fun with a pencil!, sometimes practice different pencil grips, (the longer finger grip, which is like writing, but you stretch your fingers longer to grip it and place them a bit more back from the tip of the pencil, now vary between swinging your fingers to you whole wrist to draw, its a great upgrade from writing grip, and serves better for ""regular"" sized drawings, on a 11×14 sketchbool for example), one of my favorite exercises may be the scribbles but at least now doing straight, curved, zizagging lines and circles, rectangles, boxes, tubes, etc... as a huge mark making warm up, has been a very valuable thing, small, big, across the page, ontop of each other, repeating one ontop of itself a few times before moving to the next, etc... its an excellent exercise to just jump into for a few minutes a day... then these three together (art influence, scribbles, mark making) keep doing them for as long as it breaks out of your day routine and you enjoy it, maybe for a month, maybe let it remain in your training tools as you study big subjects, but these are greatly valuable for developing a sense of "talent" inside you.
college blows, For every three questions I had I got two blank stares and one "i have no idea what you are talking about
yeah!!!!!1
🤘🤘🤘
Stan needs to not have lunch before the podcast so he doesn't become sleepy lol.
The Brazilian way of practicing football, is actually the way most poor Latin American kids learn to play football. Because they couldn't afford a "real" ball, they made a smaller one made out of cloth (originally) that doesn't bounce. And they play on the streets. In my country it's called "indorfútbol," although it's played outdoors (nobody really knows the name's origin).
Men, glad to see that they let you out
GIT GUD - The Book
good bye garbage truck we'll miss you