Dropped the rifle off again with them. They were friendly and professional and we talked about my concerns. They showed me the offending spring compared to a correct spring. It had about 1/2" or so missing. While I did not have a microscope, in my opinion it look fractured, not cut. It looked like this: www.researchgate.net/figure/Appearance-of-spring-fracture-and-cracks_fig1_228818294 Not cut ends like you typically see like what is shown is this video www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/rwjdxi/closeup_of_cutting_different_materials_in/ Not sure, either it was defective spring from the spring factory, or it broke when it was installed/removed an the small end piece does as dropped springs do, and disappeared into Narnia. A very possible honest mistake and probably a once in a million chances something like this happens. This, remind you was not the only issue I experienced, and they are working on those issues as well and seemed genuinely concerned about the issues and wanting to make it right. I'm confident the issues will be resolved and I'll have a great shooting WLVRN. Once I get the rifle back, I will be doing a part 2 video as promised, and I will be obviously doing 25 round mag tests, reliability tests, and some more accuracy tests.
A 3000 dollar gun made for the civilian market has no excuse to have really any QC issues that aren't immediately fixed on first phone call but honestly knowing how few they're going to sell every rifle should've been triple checked before they were sent out, ain't no military/leo organization is clamoring to buy these rifles in a select fire variety. This is their third iteration on the same gun and somehow they can't figure it out?
@@blaeshoflen8663 2700 not including shipping, tax (if applicable) and FFL on DT's website for 308/6.5. Sure, it's stretching the truth but the point stands this gun is gucci priced for questionable quality on a gun that is on its third variation
They simply do not have a competent design team and management choose to be after money instead of correct things for all those years. Now a 'new rifle' when they still having problems but to trick people into thinking it's all good. I said it a few times and I still stand by it, when my MDRX experienced multiple parts failure(mag release, charging handle, trigger) within very little round count, I gave the internals a good look, and they just look amateur even from my limited engineering knowledge. Even Keltec RDB is a bit more reliable civilian design. When micron first came out, they marketed it being the 'smallest' when X95 SBR already existed with a 13'' barrel. 😂 Their CS team is decent from my experience, and I feel bad for them.
You’re absolutely correct for that type of money. Well for any kind of price they’re selling us a gun not a wall clock but again yes it should actually work flawlessly no matter what the price.
It won't. The didn't do anything to address the reliability issue. The heart of the issue is that the gun doesn't have enough bolt travel. The bolt bottoms out way to close to where it is needing the most energy to extract and strip a new round of the mag. These operations require momentum and yet they are happening at the last 10% or less of bolt travel. They need to lengthen the distance between the ejection port and where the.bolt bottoms out by another 1/4 to 1/2 inch.
I was holding one in my hands just yesterday and I absolutely love the feel of this rifle, but having issues like that are disturbing on a rifle that's coming in at nearly $3K. I want one badly, and unfortunately it looks like waiting is the wise thing.
@@stinkylittlerascal How common is this really though? MAC doesn't have this problem with his and I know a guy who had an MDRx that he loved and he sold it for a WLVRN a couple weeks back. Still shouldn't be an issue at this price point though.
My 556 MDRX SE is flawless, except the charging handles needing to be replaced. Mine shoots .5 moa with a hot barrel and has never malfunctioned surprisingly. I think the 308s are known as not reliable and having flaws, but the 556s are more accurate and less issues, none in my case/rifle.
@@stinkylittlerascal That's interesting. I wonder what makes that the case. I have a couple of the Kel Tech bullpups which are supposedly unreliable, but I haven't had any issues which weren't related to improper gas adjustment or learning an effective manual of arms for the weapon (RDB in particular). MDRx/WLVRN is much more compelling as a platform especially with the caliber conversions, but that's the equivalent cost of 2-4 of the other guns when you factor in the conversion kits.
@@Erick_Bloodaxe yeah they are expensive. I think if it works flawlessly (or within reason) then it’s worth the money, but it seems like there’s several that make it out with issues
I temporarily owned the Gen 1 MDR in 308. These aren't just QC/manufacturing issues but issues inherent to the design. I am shocked that the Gen 3 lower is virtually identical to the Gen 1. At the time, I believed that the linkage needed a massive redesign and the direct reason for the mags falling out.
the linkage was completely redesigned though, and the fix is the same, because the method for changing the magazine between sr25 mags and STANAG mags is the same. The fix is to bend the mag catch inward towards the magazine
I am glad that my Gen 1 MDR in .308 has been nothing but reliable. It seems like majority with even gen 2's and now gen 3's cant say this. My magazines don't fall out and never have. Crazy stuff.
Glad i was patient ablut buying one, just saved myself a 3k dollar mistake. Ive noticed with brand new guns coming out, something tends to be wrong with them one way or the other
Really informative video. I had the original MDR, which had the same issues. My experience with DT’s customer service is that they are horrible and blamed everything else on my issues except the MDR. Finally, after fighting with DT they allowed me to sent my MDR to DT a few times for warranty repair and they could never fix the issues. I was never able to fire more than 3 rounds through the MDR before it jammed. Looks like it is a major design flaw since it is still occurring in the newer models.
Hands down the best review on YT of the wlrn so far. It beats MAC’s review, well done. As for your gas port DT forgot one pin which highlights QC issues again…very disappointing. Thanks for the video.
Just ran 250 rounds in my WLVRN for the first time. Flawless and overall an amazing experience. Zeroed my eotech exps3-0 and lands them close to each other
But not actually a new iteration…the WLVRN is DT’s lessons-learned rifle resulting from their MDR/MDRX. Not jumping down your throat, OP, just saying. The MDR/MDRX was DT’s 1st iteration of a semi-auto rifle. So, kinda no excuse on DT’s part. We MDR/MDRX owners were their “guinea pigs,” there’s no excuse for these issues on the WLVRN (not that I have been happy with DT’s excuses regarding the MDR/MDRX given the price of those rifles).
@@methodsocratic it is a completely new iteration because the rifle has been redesigned to cut unnecessary parts and supposedly add reliability. It is technically the third generation of MDR, but they changed so much it’s not surprising that it doesn’t work flawlessly. Future changes should remedy the problems, and it seems like they should all be easy fixes, but again, this is Desert Techs way of making enough money to keep their business going while they continue to iron out the kinks. People like me wait for everyone else to pay for development because money is tight and I don’t want to buy a broken rifle and not be able to do anything with it.
@@elterga6224 not really interested in arguing semantics. My point was, DT had never made a commercially available semi auto rifle prior to the MDR/MDRX. It was/is their first foray. The WLVRN is now their 2nd semi auto, & they’ve stated its design resulted from lessons learned from their MDR/MDRX program. Again, my point wasn’t to debate semantics, but rather to point out that as DT’s stated design principle regarding the WLVRN was to improve the MDR/MDRX deficiencies in pursuit of a combat-ready, semi-auto bullpup, & given that at least one customer’s rifle is showing some of the exact same deficiencies the MDR/MDRX had, DT’s got a problem on their hands. The WLVRN customer explicitly was NOT supposed to be DT’s “R&D” department (aka guinea pigs); DT has all but explicitly stated that the (we) MDR/MDRX owner community served that purpose. I mean, I’m not claiming that as a point of pride or anything. I’m saying, it’s one thing for a company to (implicitly or explicitly) treat customers of a brand new product line as folks de facto paying for the “privilege” of beta-testing that new product. I can’t speak for any other owner, but I went in with eyes open, I expected that dynamic given the circumstances of the MDR/MDRX’s development. It’s entirely another thing (and not cool at all) for that same company to then market their newest product as the result of all of that for-profit testing, & yet that new product is, at least in this sample size of one, literally the opposite of what was promoted.
@@methodsocratic I completely understand where you’re coming from, and it’s valid to expect a product that’s been advertised and brought to market to actually function, my point is that a relatively small company like Desert Tech can’t sustain development and production of a rifle they aren’t selling, especially a rifle as novel as theirs. Had it been a company like IWI, CZ, or Sig, this would be completely unacceptable and indicative of poor design/quality. Desert Tech’s small size is more so indicative of incomplete design and quality control rather than just being garbage if that makes sense. Acknowledging the fact that Desert Tech doesn’t have the time or the resources to bring a complete rifle to market, as well as previous attempts being largely inconsistent, should signal to any conscious minded consumer that the most reasonable course of action is to wait until further evidence of reliability before purchasing. The only people buying these are those with enough money to throw away and those who make poor financial choices, these are the aforementioned guinea pigs. The low consumer pool also adds in driving up the price to cover the cost of manufacturing and development they’d otherwise get from a larger consumer base. I personally believe that future generations of the WLVRN will solve most if not all the problems from previous iterations, especially because DT needs the WLVRN to not be DOA like the MDR was. Desert Tech makes good guns as evidenced by the SRS and HTI rifles, so they should be able to make the WLVRN work. If they can correct these problems, then I will likely buy one, until then I can’t justify the expense.
Do you want some mags for your AR10? I have 3 brand new steal armalite 25 round mags that I bought for my DB AR10. But the only fit armalite AR10s. I paid 70 a mag and they have just been collecting dust for the last 3 years. I will literally just give them to you.
With all the improvements made for accuracy, I don't understand why they didn't move the gas block closer to the muzzle like you suggest. I made the same suggestion before and they said it's not possible, but I don't see why not.
@@TransformersHoarder 1/2 the price looking at MSRP. Bullpups in general are usually around 2000$ (msrp) range so comparing them by price is not a fair metric as you can get alot out of an AR15/10 for the same cost as a bullpup. The SFAR is also Based around the long standing AR15 platform stretched to 308 (with far more aftermarket support).. and by a much larger (longer lived) company.. I was only drawing the comparison that both are light weight and 308 is a pain to get working it seems.
I am not worried about the mag spring. That would be a rare issue that is easily fixed. I am more concerned that they can’t get better accuracy from it.
Damn... It sucks seeing this because I was VERY excited about the 3rd version of this gun and hoping I could get a fully ambi reliable 308 platform to suppress... But I'll just wait and save up the $4100 for the SIG Spear 308 which to date is literally the only fully reliable 308 semi-auto platform I've heard of
You could put together an A3 Triad bullpup with choice of upper, FoxTrot Mike, BRN180, or PSA Jakl. Costs around $1500 and blows this out of the water tbh.
@@sothrowd0 unlikely. The 556s have been more reliably in every regard. Mine for instance has never malfunctioned a single time after years of use. All I had to do was replace charging handles as one broke
What is desert tech’s product that made them popular? Srt? Lol have the mdrx, frustrated with scissor action, they suggested i pay for the side eject upgrade. Lol.
As I understand it, DT’s name was established with their bolt-action rifles. From everything I’ve read/watched, the SRS & HTI are considered incredible & winners all around. The MDR/MDRX was DT’s 1st foray into semi-auto rifles, & although I’ve only been paying attention since I bought my MDRX in 2020, it seems pretty obvious that prior to them venturing into semi-auto rifles, their customer base was very happy.
Follow up questions: I think you’re running a HUXWRX can? What gas setting? Also, any feeding issues? My MDRX consistently has FTF malfunctions with soft-tips. Lastly, how’s the brass look after firing & ejection? My cases are all at the least severely scraped length-wise, & many (most?) are actually dented near or at the case shoulder. My diagnosis for my rifle is that burrs on the barrel extension lugs are catching both soft-tip rounds & marring/denting casings during the feeding part of the cycle. Curious if you’ve seen anything similar.
No experience with soft point ammo, and brass seems fine, didn't examine to many. Huxwrx can works great too. It seems to run barely on a, but needs one click up to be right.
@@DesertCoyotes good to hear on all counts. Side note: my MDRX has kinda the opposite issues with magazines: I had to file off a couple of millimeters from the top third of my pmags to get them to drop free when empty. On bolt lock-back, the mag catch would release them but the catch was still in contact with enough of the magazine body that they’d drop about 1/2 inch then stick in the mag well (with an aggressive shake empty mags would drop, partially full mags would drop fine from the slight bit of extra weight). Funny the huge difference just being slightly out of tolerance makes a machine.
Had a tavor 7 for over a year. About 2.5 to 3 moa with a non magnified red dot. No reliability issues as yet. But I haven’t fired steel case from it. And won’t if I can avoid it.
Just want to add since you mentioned, last I talked to desert tech they’ll pay for shipping and fix it for free. Old models anything etc. if you happen to be in the area I’m pretty sure you can drop it off and pick it up
I really want these rifles to be good, and I want one, but it needs to match the reliability of my other rifles that unfortunately suffered a boating accident.
i was hoping this version was going to be the one DT figured out...guess not. I'll stick with my cheapo RDB...it works...then I'll get a .308 PSA Jakl with the bullpup lower
@Odinforever2000 adding 8 ox in weight won't make much difference..and it will make the barrel less prone to flex when shooting off a bag or bipod. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if the barrel was free float
Solid rifles, but very much not ergonomic. Reliable, etc, truly combat-proven, but their ergonomics are truly an issue even compared to other bullpups (let alone when compared to AR-platform rifles).
I still don't understand how simplifying the MDR down to an AUG with better ergos/trigger and a worse quick change barrel can cost more to purchase than the original MDR. When I asked the same question on military arms channel, the desert tech people were lowkey rude and dismissive. They straight up claimed it was to cover their $200k development bill. My brothers in christ, you made a short stroke bullpup AR180 with a good bullpup trigger. That shouldn't cost $200k. I could develop a better/cheaper/more easily ambidextrous/more reliable rifle for at most half the cost if I had access to their tools and one of their engineers to handle drafting.
@@DesertCoyotes So I misremembered. They claimed $20 million. My response to them was that I could do better with $200k, their shop, and access someone who knows how to draft. They haven't replied back, so I guess I'm not getting the job.
Thanks for making this video. I had an mdr and mdrx that were total failures. I still want a wlvrn but I know it’s going to have issues. I need to know if DT can actually fix this shit.
Poor designs, poor QC, poor material selection. Great ideas but like most american companies they cheaped out and its going to cost you, the guinea pig customer. They lost me years ago with the SRS and MDR
😮3000 dollars there shouldn't be a dam thing wrong in my opion.. you can get a tavor for 2000 and will run fine and this is the 3rd generation with problems. Good luck with fixing the problems
We have just processed this rifle in warranty and his magazine release spring has been cut in half, I am not sure why it was cut we do not know how it got cut, we have searched high and don’t have an answer. The reviewer says he did not cut it either. Nevertheless we have replaced it with a new spring to resolve the issue.
Wtf, why imply maliciousness on the customer... Even if it was true (I'm sure it's not) it's not a PR war your going to win, just say the part broke and return the rifle...
100% not a PR battle to pick. Here's what I, a prospect customer, would like to see: "We have just processed this rifle in warranty and found that the magazine release spring appears to have broken, causing the magazine retention problems you were experiencing. We stand behind our products and will do everything possible to make this right for you. We are investigating our manufacturing processes to ensure this doesn't happen again." I don't want to buy your shit and have you get defensive with me when it breaks. Shit happens, it's a $3 part and nobody died.
Yah, that’s the same pattern with DT’s MDR/MDRX rifles. Some rifles had no issues, some were total trash (my MDRX is in the middle ground). That’s the thing with QC issues.
Tim really needs to stop giving legal advice. Yes a company absolutely can convict someone for shoplifting if they don't scan merchandise at a self-checkout.
I’m a noob. Why do some companies have excellent quality control and some like Desert Tech consistently have a bad record for it? Does it come down to the design of the rifle/product or the people assembling the rifle?
It can be a lot of factors. Desert tech is a smaller company, and larger companies may have a larger R&D development budget to iron out more issues. Also big companies have released absolute turds before too, so it's not just DT. Also desert tech is making a gun that is completely new, all new engineering, testing etc. vs say a company making an AR15 that had to expend very little, if any resources getting the somewhat freely available TDP, that would otherwise cost millions and years to develop. I don't have any insight to Desert tech, but I think their goals with this gun are pretty high, and a smaller company can't have this gun sit in development for 10 years before releasing it. They have to start making money somehow. Larger company could probably let the gun develop longer with out hurting the bottom line.
@@DesertCoyotes So the design of the WLVRN doesn’t make it so the defects are inherent? It’s just a QC issue? The best bull pup on the market if those issues were fixed u say?
@@SodaPrezsing well design can make executing the function of parts difficult. To make it lightweight and all that. It can be challenging. You could over build it and make is so you need less qc, but then it would end up heavier, less accurate and all that. And yes, if it can be a solid reliable gun, I would say it would be the best bullpup
So something most people don’t take into consideration is that Desert Tech makes their rifles in parts. So they’re not checking a finished mated firearm in QC. Especially in the bulpup world I don’t think any one else does this. I’m assuming this has a lot to do with Desert Techs modularity of the rifle. Sadly I think this is the biggest issue they are facing when it comes to their QC. Also Desert Tech is pushing the capabilities of their rifle. There are a lot more ergonomic controls you get out of their rifle than any other bulpup on the market. I’m sure if they stripped stuff out and simplified the rifle then it would help but then you’re not pushing the industry. You’re just making another bulpup like the rest of them.
@@brandonwellman4632 interesting if that's how they qc them. Mine was definitely test fired though. But yes, they are pushing the limits of the bullpup design, and if they can getting it to run, hands down would be the best bullpup
The main problem with the bullpup concept in general from my POV is the inability to mount “force multipliers” to your gun. Your particular gun, for instance, has a 1-8 LPVO and that’s IT. You can’t even mount a flashlight, let alone a pressure switch or an IR laser and still have room to hold the rifle… And those ergonomic issues which are intrinsic to the design of the rifle limits this gun to one that you can only deploy effectively for 12-15 hours out of the day.
I can put more in it. There are also longer handguard options. Just haven't because I'm testing it. IDF has no issue mounting nightvison, lights and lasers in their even shorter bullpup.
Dropped the rifle off again with them. They were friendly and professional and we talked about my concerns. They showed me the offending spring compared to a correct spring. It had about 1/2" or so missing. While I did not have a microscope, in my opinion it look fractured, not cut.
It looked like this: www.researchgate.net/figure/Appearance-of-spring-fracture-and-cracks_fig1_228818294
Not cut ends like you typically see like what is shown is this video www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/rwjdxi/closeup_of_cutting_different_materials_in/
Not sure, either it was defective spring from the spring factory, or it broke when it was installed/removed an the small end piece does as dropped springs do, and disappeared into Narnia. A very possible honest mistake and probably a once in a million chances something like this happens.
This, remind you was not the only issue I experienced, and they are working on those issues as well and seemed genuinely concerned about the issues and wanting to make it right. I'm confident the issues will be resolved and I'll have a great shooting WLVRN.
Once I get the rifle back, I will be doing a part 2 video as promised, and I will be obviously doing 25 round mag tests, reliability tests, and some more accuracy tests.
can you expound on the chipped bolt, any pictures of it?
I'm glad new videos are coming out about this. let us know how the cs goes.
A 3000 dollar gun made for the civilian market has no excuse to have really any QC issues that aren't immediately fixed on first phone call but honestly knowing how few they're going to sell every rifle should've been triple checked before they were sent out, ain't no military/leo organization is clamoring to buy these rifles in a select fire variety. This is their third iteration on the same gun and somehow they can't figure it out?
@@blaeshoflen8663 2700 not including shipping, tax (if applicable) and FFL on DT's website for 308/6.5. Sure, it's stretching the truth but the point stands this gun is gucci priced for questionable quality on a gun that is on its third variation
They simply do not have a competent design team and management choose to be after money instead of correct things for all those years. Now a 'new rifle' when they still having problems but to trick people into thinking it's all good.
I said it a few times and I still stand by it, when my MDRX experienced multiple parts failure(mag release, charging handle, trigger) within very little round count, I gave the internals a good look, and they just look amateur even from my limited engineering knowledge. Even Keltec RDB is a bit more reliable civilian design.
When micron first came out, they marketed it being the 'smallest' when X95 SBR already existed with a 13'' barrel.
😂 Their CS team is decent from my experience, and I feel bad for them.
I agree, I’ve been hoping and praying for this Gun for 10 years.
You’re absolutely correct for that type of money. Well for any kind of price they’re selling us a gun not a wall clock but again yes it should actually work flawlessly no matter what the price.
Great vid! Really hope they work out the QC issues. I’ve been following the MDR for years and I just want the WLVRN to work!
It won't. The didn't do anything to address the reliability issue. The heart of the issue is that the gun doesn't have enough bolt travel. The bolt bottoms out way to close to where it is needing the most energy to extract and strip a new round of the mag. These operations require momentum and yet they are happening at the last 10% or less of bolt travel. They need to lengthen the distance between the ejection port and where the.bolt bottoms out by another 1/4 to 1/2 inch.
Finally! Thanks for posting this, & in 308. Been looking for actual reviews.
I was holding one in my hands just yesterday and I absolutely love the feel of this rifle, but having issues like that are disturbing on a rifle that's coming in at nearly $3K. I want one badly, and unfortunately it looks like waiting is the wise thing.
@@stinkylittlerascal How common is this really though? MAC doesn't have this problem with his and I know a guy who had an MDRx that he loved and he sold it for a WLVRN a couple weeks back. Still shouldn't be an issue at this price point though.
Me too, I want the 6.5 CM version of this gun, I believe it's the only ones on the market currently.
My 556 MDRX SE is flawless, except the charging handles needing to be replaced. Mine shoots .5 moa with a hot barrel and has never malfunctioned surprisingly. I think the 308s are known as not reliable and having flaws, but the 556s are more accurate and less issues, none in my case/rifle.
@@stinkylittlerascal That's interesting. I wonder what makes that the case.
I have a couple of the Kel Tech bullpups which are supposedly unreliable, but I haven't had any issues which weren't related to improper gas adjustment or learning an effective manual of arms for the weapon (RDB in particular). MDRx/WLVRN is much more compelling as a platform especially with the caliber conversions, but that's the equivalent cost of 2-4 of the other guns when you factor in the conversion kits.
@@Erick_Bloodaxe yeah they are expensive. I think if it works flawlessly (or within reason) then it’s worth the money, but it seems like there’s several that make it out with issues
too bad, the new design seems promising.
I think it has potential. Hoping it's just a fluke. Rifle is going back so they can take a look at it.
These are the first productions to hit the market, people who buy them now are just the guinea pigs for future improvements
I don't think it looks any better than gen 1. They haven't addressed any of the issues causing reliability issues.
I temporarily owned the Gen 1 MDR in 308. These aren't just QC/manufacturing issues but issues inherent to the design. I am shocked that the Gen 3 lower is virtually identical to the Gen 1. At the time, I believed that the linkage needed a massive redesign and the direct reason for the mags falling out.
the linkage was completely redesigned though, and the fix is the same, because the method for changing the magazine between sr25 mags and STANAG mags is the same.
The fix is to bend the mag catch inward towards the magazine
I am glad that my Gen 1 MDR in .308 has been nothing but reliable. It seems like majority with even gen 2's and now gen 3's cant say this. My magazines don't fall out and never have. Crazy stuff.
Ya the Tavor mag catch system is better, no doubt
Glad i was patient ablut buying one, just saved myself a 3k dollar mistake. Ive noticed with brand new guns coming out, something tends to be wrong with them one way or the other
Really informative video. I had the original MDR, which had the same issues. My experience with DT’s customer service is that they are horrible and blamed everything else on my issues except the MDR. Finally, after fighting with DT they allowed me to sent my MDR to DT a few times for warranty repair and they could never fix the issues. I was never able to fire more than 3 rounds through the MDR before it jammed. Looks like it is a major design flaw since it is still occurring in the newer models.
Hands down the best review on YT of the wlrn so far. It beats MAC’s review, well done. As for your gas port DT forgot one pin which highlights QC issues again…very disappointing. Thanks for the video.
Thank you
Mac is paid shill. Don't take his words on anything serious.
Just ran 250 rounds in my WLVRN for the first time. Flawless and overall an amazing experience. Zeroed my eotech exps3-0 and lands them close to each other
Nice, what caliber?
I shipped my MDRX back to Desert Tech yesterday because I was having light primer strikes, & then my bolt carrier split in half, with 595 shots fired
What a disaster.
@volkskrieg8735 They fixed it & shipped it back in under a week, it's working just fine this time around!
@@ericbergfield6451 what kind of use has it seen? I don't c a lot of people showing it run mag after mag (ammo cost shit hurts lol)
@volkskrieg8735 I think I got a messed up bolt, since it snapped in half under 600 rounds fired. But it was just normal, simple, basic range shooting.
@@ericbergfield6451 and after you got it back?
Awaiting your further testing!
Great Vid, watching for updates
It’s a brand new iteration, my brother in arms, you are the guinea pig
Yes I am
But not actually a new iteration…the WLVRN is DT’s lessons-learned rifle resulting from their MDR/MDRX. Not jumping down your throat, OP, just saying. The MDR/MDRX was DT’s 1st iteration of a semi-auto rifle.
So, kinda no excuse on DT’s part. We MDR/MDRX owners were their “guinea pigs,” there’s no excuse for these issues on the WLVRN (not that I have been happy with DT’s excuses regarding the MDR/MDRX given the price of those rifles).
@@methodsocratic it is a completely new iteration because the rifle has been redesigned to cut unnecessary parts and supposedly add reliability. It is technically the third generation of MDR, but they changed so much it’s not surprising that it doesn’t work flawlessly. Future changes should remedy the problems, and it seems like they should all be easy fixes, but again, this is Desert Techs way of making enough money to keep their business going while they continue to iron out the kinks. People like me wait for everyone else to pay for development because money is tight and I don’t want to buy a broken rifle and not be able to do anything with it.
@@elterga6224 not really interested in arguing semantics. My point was, DT had never made a commercially available semi auto rifle prior to the MDR/MDRX. It was/is their first foray. The WLVRN is now their 2nd semi auto, & they’ve stated its design resulted from lessons learned from their MDR/MDRX program.
Again, my point wasn’t to debate semantics, but rather to point out that as DT’s stated design principle regarding the WLVRN was to improve the MDR/MDRX deficiencies in pursuit of a combat-ready, semi-auto bullpup, & given that at least one customer’s rifle is showing some of the exact same deficiencies the MDR/MDRX had, DT’s got a problem on their hands.
The WLVRN customer explicitly was NOT supposed to be DT’s “R&D” department (aka guinea pigs); DT has all but explicitly stated that the (we) MDR/MDRX owner community served that purpose.
I mean, I’m not claiming that as a point of pride or anything. I’m saying, it’s one thing for a company to (implicitly or explicitly) treat customers of a brand new product line as folks de facto paying for the “privilege” of beta-testing that new product. I can’t speak for any other owner, but I went in with eyes open, I expected that dynamic given the circumstances of the MDR/MDRX’s development.
It’s entirely another thing (and not cool at all) for that same company to then market their newest product as the result of all of that for-profit testing, & yet that new product is, at least in this sample size of one, literally the opposite of what was promoted.
@@methodsocratic I completely understand where you’re coming from, and it’s valid to expect a product that’s been advertised and brought to market to actually function, my point is that a relatively small company like Desert Tech can’t sustain development and production of a rifle they aren’t selling, especially a rifle as novel as theirs. Had it been a company like IWI, CZ, or Sig, this would be completely unacceptable and indicative of poor design/quality. Desert Tech’s small size is more so indicative of incomplete design and quality control rather than just being garbage if that makes sense.
Acknowledging the fact that Desert Tech doesn’t have the time or the resources to bring a complete rifle to market, as well as previous attempts being largely inconsistent, should signal to any conscious minded consumer that the most reasonable course of action is to wait until further evidence of reliability before purchasing. The only people buying these are those with enough money to throw away and those who make poor financial choices, these are the aforementioned guinea pigs. The low consumer pool also adds in driving up the price to cover the cost of manufacturing and development they’d otherwise get from a larger consumer base.
I personally believe that future generations of the WLVRN will solve most if not all the problems from previous iterations, especially because DT needs the WLVRN to not be DOA like the MDR was. Desert Tech makes good guns as evidenced by the SRS and HTI rifles, so they should be able to make the WLVRN work. If they can correct these problems, then I will likely buy one, until then I can’t justify the expense.
Thanks brother. Definitely keeping on my watch list. Amazing on paper.
Really good review. Looking forward to seeing the results of some robust accuracy testing.
Same here
I think the fix should be the same as it was on the MDRX. you have to take the mag catch out and bend it towards the magazine so it grips it harder.
I had a stuck case issue with a new armalite ar10. A chamber hone fixed it. Thanks for the in depth examination.
Do you want some mags for your AR10? I have 3 brand new steal armalite 25 round mags that I bought for my DB AR10. But the only fit armalite AR10s. I paid 70 a mag and they have just been collecting dust for the last 3 years. I will literally just give them to you.
@@mfddb3084 shit I’ll take you up on the offer and pay for shipping
With all the improvements made for accuracy, I don't understand why they didn't move the gas block closer to the muzzle like you suggest.
I made the same suggestion before and they said it's not possible, but I don't see why not.
Your review sorta sounds like Hops review of the Ruger Sfar.
"
Light weight 308 that takes a bit of tinkering to be reliable.
It kinda does haha. Must be that Utah air 😂
But the SFAR is a third of the WLVRN price.
@@TransformersHoarder 1/2 the price looking at MSRP. Bullpups in general are usually around 2000$ (msrp)
range so comparing them by price is not a fair metric as you can get alot out of an AR15/10 for the same cost as a bullpup.
The SFAR is also Based around the long standing AR15 platform stretched to 308 (with far more aftermarket support).. and by a much larger (longer lived) company..
I was only drawing the comparison that both are light weight and 308 is a pain to get working it seems.
I am not worried about the mag spring. That would be a rare issue that is easily fixed. I am more concerned that they can’t get better accuracy from it.
Damn... It sucks seeing this because I was VERY excited about the 3rd version of this gun and hoping I could get a fully ambi reliable 308 platform to suppress... But I'll just wait and save up the $4100 for the SIG Spear 308 which to date is literally the only fully reliable 308 semi-auto platform I've heard of
I was just about to pull the trigger and buy the exact one you have. Looks like I'll wait
You could put together an A3 Triad bullpup with choice of upper, FoxTrot Mike, BRN180, or PSA Jakl. Costs around $1500 and blows this out of the water tbh.
arent those all 223 tho?
That’s the same reason I sold mine from stuck cases in the chamber and ripping the base of the shell off, forcing me to use a shell extractor.
@0:04 upset rifle when you didn't give her a good morning kiss and a hug.😂
I'm just waiting to become a beta tester for Black Rain's Bullpup 🤪
I think that but has become Vaporware..
Thanks for the review. I wonder if the 5.56 version will share the same ejection issues.
@@sothrowd0 unlikely. The 556s have been more reliably in every regard. Mine for instance has never malfunctioned a single time after years of use. All I had to do was replace charging handles as one broke
My friend got one in .308. He also sent it back more than once .
His only reason for keeping the rifle is cus its close to the BR from Halo
DT does not have any issues with their bolt action rifles so I dont know why these rifles are made so poorly.
I suspected the mdr was a pile of garbage, didn’t expect it to screw it up that bad.
What is desert tech’s product that made them popular? Srt? Lol have the mdrx, frustrated with scissor action, they suggested i pay for the side eject upgrade. Lol.
As I understand it, DT’s name was established with their bolt-action rifles. From everything I’ve read/watched, the SRS & HTI are considered incredible & winners all around.
The MDR/MDRX was DT’s 1st foray into semi-auto rifles, & although I’ve only been paying attention since I bought my MDRX in 2020, it seems pretty obvious that prior to them venturing into semi-auto rifles, their customer base was very happy.
Follow up questions: I think you’re running a HUXWRX can? What gas setting? Also, any feeding issues? My MDRX consistently has FTF malfunctions with soft-tips. Lastly, how’s the brass look after firing & ejection? My cases are all at the least severely scraped length-wise, & many (most?) are actually dented near or at the case shoulder.
My diagnosis for my rifle is that burrs on the barrel extension lugs are catching both soft-tip rounds & marring/denting casings during the feeding part of the cycle.
Curious if you’ve seen anything similar.
No experience with soft point ammo, and brass seems fine, didn't examine to many.
Huxwrx can works great too. It seems to run barely on a, but needs one click up to be right.
@@DesertCoyotes good to hear on all counts.
Side note: my MDRX has kinda the opposite issues with magazines: I had to file off a couple of millimeters from the top third of my pmags to get them to drop free when empty. On bolt lock-back, the mag catch would release them but the catch was still in contact with enough of the magazine body that they’d drop about 1/2 inch then stick in the mag well (with an aggressive shake empty mags would drop, partially full mags would drop fine from the slight bit of extra weight).
Funny the huge difference just being slightly out of tolerance makes a machine.
That’s weird never had issue with MDR or MDRx but I’m not surprised just disappointed ! I’m sure they’ll fix it but yeah
classic fire arms was having the same mag drop issue in their video this week
Had a tavor 7 for over a year. About 2.5 to 3 moa with a non magnified red dot. No reliability issues as yet. But I haven’t fired steel case from it. And won’t if I can avoid it.
Just want to add since you mentioned, last I talked to desert tech they’ll pay for shipping and fix it for free. Old models anything etc. if you happen to be in the area I’m pretty sure you can drop it off and pick it up
Planning on dropping it off the week
I really want these rifles to be good, and I want one, but it needs to match the reliability of my other rifles that unfortunately suffered a boating accident.
i was hoping this version was going to be the one DT figured out...guess not. I'll stick with my cheapo RDB...it works...then I'll get a .308 PSA Jakl with the bullpup lower
I love my Rdb.
@@Odinforever2000 so do I...but I wish it had a heavier barrel profile. At the very least...they should have gone with a real pencil barrel profile
@@signkutter9218 Outside of more weight (which I like how light it is) What does a heavier barrel profile accomplish?
@Odinforever2000 adding 8 ox in weight won't make much difference..and it will make the barrel less prone to flex when shooting off a bag or bipod. It wouldn't matter nearly as much if the barrel was free float
I would really be looking at the IWI Tavor. Quality is excellent and much cheaper than that problem child.
I have all the Tavor rifles, solid guns
Solid rifles, but very much not ergonomic. Reliable, etc, truly combat-proven, but their ergonomics are truly an issue even compared to other bullpups (let alone when compared to AR-platform rifles).
I still don't understand how simplifying the MDR down to an AUG with better ergos/trigger and a worse quick change barrel can cost more to purchase than the original MDR. When I asked the same question on military arms channel, the desert tech people were lowkey rude and dismissive. They straight up claimed it was to cover their $200k development bill. My brothers in christ, you made a short stroke bullpup AR180 with a good bullpup trigger. That shouldn't cost $200k. I could develop a better/cheaper/more easily ambidextrous/more reliable rifle for at most half the cost if I had access to their tools and one of their engineers to handle drafting.
200k seems like a lot, but big picture it isn't. A CNC machining center, which I would guess they have multiple, can cost in excess of 200k
@@DesertCoyotes So I misremembered. They claimed $20 million. My response to them was that I could do better with $200k, their shop, and access someone who knows how to draft. They haven't replied back, so I guess I'm not getting the job.
Thanks for making this video. I had an mdr and mdrx that were total failures. I still want a wlvrn but I know it’s going to have issues. I need to know if DT can actually fix this shit.
They can't. It's long needed major redesigns. Many of these issues are a direct result of design flaws and just poor QC
I will post updates as DT/myself get it running right
Incoming product announcement for WLVRNx 🤣
dang, yeah, for that kind of price, i would expect near perfection :(
It takes about 300 rounds to break that rifle in
It looks like the mag was trash, not the fault of the rifle.
I’ll stick with the totally POS and super duper difficult to load, rack the charging handle, and crazy OAL AR10. (Thats at your desert tech)
Easy fix take the magazine catch off and bend it about1/8 inch, problem solved.
Why should customers be bending shit to fix their brand new $2.5k rifles??
I knew this would be trash when they first showed it.
It really is starting to seem that this design just needs to be dropped. Third time aint a charm
Poor designs, poor QC, poor material selection. Great ideas but like most american companies they cheaped out and its going to cost you, the guinea pig customer. They lost me years ago with the SRS and MDR
😮3000 dollars there shouldn't be a dam thing wrong in my opion.. you can get a tavor for 2000 and will run fine and this is the 3rd generation with problems. Good luck with fixing the problems
We have just processed this rifle in warranty and his magazine release spring has been cut in half, I am not sure why it was cut we do not know how it got cut, we have searched high and don’t have an answer. The reviewer says he did not cut it either. Nevertheless we have replaced it with a new spring to resolve the issue.
I never cut that spring and it was sent back to you as I received it. Why would I sabotage a rifle I paid nearly 3k of my own money for?
Also 28:52, I literally say that spring could stand to be heavier...
Sounds like desert tech being desert tech again. Deny accountability and blame the customers 😂
Wtf, why imply maliciousness on the customer... Even if it was true (I'm sure it's not) it's not a PR war your going to win, just say the part broke and return the rifle...
100% not a PR battle to pick. Here's what I, a prospect customer, would like to see:
"We have just processed this rifle in warranty and found that the magazine release spring appears to have broken, causing the magazine retention problems you were experiencing. We stand behind our products and will do everything possible to make this right for you. We are investigating our manufacturing processes to ensure this doesn't happen again."
I don't want to buy your shit and have you get defensive with me when it breaks. Shit happens, it's a $3 part and nobody died.
SORRY for your troubles… THANK YOU for saving me 3 LARGE… Not purchasing …
"JuST bUy DeSErT TeCh" - reddit
I just don't want one because the flimsy handguard. I want a stout handguard dmr
I think Desert Tech’s RUclips channel addresses this and iirc, it is sturdy enough to mount lams
They make aluminum rails that definitely hold zero.
Two after market hand guards, BLKLBL & ALG, both excellent. Hold zero, high quality construction, etc.
mines doing the same, its absolute bullshit
Sorry to hear that. I got mine back, hoping to get a range video soon
The Triad kit looks better than this, could get a complete setup for less than 1/2 the price
Not a single one of your issues with my WLVRN 308.
Still havent seen an accuracy test from you yet :p
Lucky
Yah, that’s the same pattern with DT’s MDR/MDRX rifles. Some rifles had no issues, some were total trash (my MDRX is in the middle ground).
That’s the thing with QC issues.
Tim really needs to stop giving legal advice. Yes a company absolutely can convict someone for shoplifting if they don't scan merchandise at a self-checkout.
Dont worry, theyll fix some of the problems with this platform just in time to release a new platform and abandon the one you have. lol
I’m a noob. Why do some companies have excellent quality control and some like Desert Tech consistently have a bad record for it?
Does it come down to the design of the rifle/product or the people assembling the rifle?
It can be a lot of factors. Desert tech is a smaller company, and larger companies may have a larger R&D development budget to iron out more issues. Also big companies have released absolute turds before too, so it's not just DT. Also desert tech is making a gun that is completely new, all new engineering, testing etc. vs say a company making an AR15 that had to expend very little, if any resources getting the somewhat freely available TDP, that would otherwise cost millions and years to develop.
I don't have any insight to Desert tech, but I think their goals with this gun are pretty high, and a smaller company can't have this gun sit in development for 10 years before releasing it. They have to start making money somehow. Larger company could probably let the gun develop longer with out hurting the bottom line.
@@DesertCoyotes So the design of the WLVRN doesn’t make it so the defects are inherent? It’s just a QC issue?
The best bull pup on the market if those issues were fixed u say?
@@SodaPrezsing well design can make executing the function of parts difficult. To make it lightweight and all that. It can be challenging. You could over build it and make is so you need less qc, but then it would end up heavier, less accurate and all that.
And yes, if it can be a solid reliable gun, I would say it would be the best bullpup
So something most people don’t take into consideration is that Desert Tech makes their rifles in parts. So they’re not checking a finished mated firearm in QC. Especially in the bulpup world I don’t think any one else does this. I’m assuming this has a lot to do with Desert Techs modularity of the rifle. Sadly I think this is the biggest issue they are facing when it comes to their QC. Also Desert Tech is pushing the capabilities of their rifle. There are a lot more ergonomic controls you get out of their rifle than any other bulpup on the market. I’m sure if they stripped stuff out and simplified the rifle then it would help but then you’re not pushing the industry. You’re just making another bulpup like the rest of them.
@@brandonwellman4632 interesting if that's how they qc them. Mine was definitely test fired though.
But yes, they are pushing the limits of the bullpup design, and if they can getting it to run, hands down would be the best bullpup
Sorry I know it’s not a bull pup and not very ergonomic but if you want a reliable semi 308 then get a m77 zastava 😅 and it’s cheaper to boot lol😊
Gen 3
Still not reliable
The end. Waste of money
LOL No kidding. Stay far far away from this stuff.
The main problem with the bullpup concept in general from my POV is the inability to mount “force multipliers” to your gun. Your particular gun, for instance, has a 1-8 LPVO and that’s IT. You can’t even mount a flashlight, let alone a pressure switch or an IR laser and still have room to hold the rifle… And those ergonomic issues which are intrinsic to the design of the rifle limits this gun to one that you can only deploy effectively for 12-15 hours out of the day.
I can put more in it. There are also longer handguard options. Just haven't because I'm testing it. IDF has no issue mounting nightvison, lights and lasers in their even shorter bullpup.
You can mount flashlights, pressure switches, and lasers to the mdrx/wlvrn. Just google it.