America's Rural Veterinarian Crisis Strikes Our Farm
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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Gold Shaw Farm
PO Box 225
Peacham, VT 05862
About Gold Shaw Farm: Gold Shaw Farm is more of a farm-in-progress than an honest-to-goodness farm. Our dream is that someday we can transform our 150+ acre parcel of land into a regenerative and productive homestead and farm.
Vet here - The rural veterinary shortage has been an issue since before I graduated 13 years ago. Unfortunately it will likely continue to be a problem for quite some time, even with the addition of more veterinary schools (I believe we have at least 3 more getting accredited in the near future). There is also currently a shortage of companion animal veterinarians in many areas due to the boom in pet numbers during the pandemic. Couple that with a large number of vets leaving the profession, or at least practice due to the increasing abusive behavior of clients it's been tough for many clinics.
You're what we call a "unicorn client" - you are willing to seek care and do what's necessary for your animals, and understand that that care can come at a cost. I've noticed every time I've seen a video dealing with veterinary care you're also quite practical which I appreciate. That is sadly quite rare. Veterinary care is expensive to provide, especially right now, but we often have clients expecting us to do it for free or at a substantially reduced cost (below what we spent to provide it) and if we don't do that they review bomb clinics, get friends to call in and hold up the appointment line, and downright harass staff. That, in addition to the compassion fatigue from dealing with sick/dying patients most days has come with a hefty suicide rate as well.
You mentioned salaries of $70k - that's essentially unlivable for most veterinarians, even in a low cost of living area. The average new graduate comes out of school with a debt of $150k, but it isn't unusual to be over $400k. My husband was at $280k, monthly loan payments alone were $2500/month. So we come out of school with the same debt load as a physician, but often make less than half starting out, and our income potential is closer to 1/3 a physician's over our careers. We get loan forgiveness programs dangled in front of us, but anyone who has done their research has seen them come and go, often at the worst possible moments for vets.
I don't have an immediate solution, unfortunately I don't live in the area so don't have specific contacts, but I can do some digging and see what's around. For long term, if people would write to their representatives, urge not only the pass but FUNDING of bills to assist rural veterinarians with their massive debt load, that could alleviate a large issue. Finding ways to reduce the cost of veterinary school would also be a massive help. Programs that cover portions of one's tuition with the promise of serving a rural area for a specified time may also incentivize new vets to the area.
I appreciate you talking about this topic - it's something we've been dealing with for quite some time, and bringing it to a platform like yours is helpful to increasing awareness, especially among laypeople.
Thank you for taking the time to write all of this out.
It’s insane that veterinary school costs half a million dollars. Tuition costs have gotten to the point of absurdity. We need to allow students to get medical licenses by just passing tests and internships.
Vet care in the food chain is a national security issue. Your professional organization needs to speak about it as such. No meat or dairy means children who won’t qualify for military service (Nat sec risk there) and potential unrest and violence. (Another Nat sec risk - I can keep going with them)
I know 4 pre veterinarian students that can't get accepted to veterinarian schools, staffing the universities is another issue and that limits students allowed in. All these students come from rural backgrounds and want to serve rural America, but, even with the grades can't get into the veterinarian schools in the NW.
@@elizabethclaiborne6461 I don't disagree with you - I work in federal service for foreign animal disease diagnostics. I've seen the numbers on food insecurity if we lose even a part of our animal agriculture industry.
Unfortunately our professional organization can't manage to put together a coherent website, let alone a position statement that actually advocates for us. The AVMA has disappointed me numerous times which is why I'm not a member. Once I'm more settled in my current position I may try to become active again so that I can push positive change.
Some communities have pulled together to provide a package deal/contract with a vet. The package is a house, 4-wheel drive truck, and a clinic to get the vet up and running. The contract is for a certain number of years with different types of perks.
I like this idea. Villages in UK used to pay costs for a doctor's training in return for a minimum number of years of practice in their village afterwards. Why not similar deals for Vets?
This was exactly what I was thinking. They could also help finance a vet through school with a commitment to work in the community for a specific number of years. Of course, you might be in the continuous cycle of training and breaking in new vets and probably would need a continuous funnel to fill future needs. Also, one veterinarian is probably not enough, you need a team.
This is a great idea! I would hope, though, that
A) The vet is treated well during their stay (aka. Not bullied into providing services at an extremely cheaper rate because the farmers paid for their schooling.)
B) That both men AND women are given an equal chance to fill that position. I've heard of many female livestock vets being treated poorly because some farmers feel they can't do the job. You know...the old "boys club" view that some farmers have.
Otherwise this is a wonderful idea.
That is a great idea!!!❤❤🎉
Honestly, I wonder if a Co-Op might be the way to go. If you could perhaps get several farmers together to contract with a large-animal vet to "make the rounds" once or twice a year to do the "routine" care. Wouldn't necessarily solve the "emergency" issue, but at least it'd take care of the routine matters.
This is the way.
That was my thought. A somewhat larger co-op could try to attract a vet for full time on-call care with an attractive guaranteed salary.
This is such a great idea!
As a vet assistant, csr, kennel tech and surgery assistant, I work almost all areas of our small general practice in Alaska. My pay Is a whole $16.50, and that's with 2 raises. We can't keep techs because there's so much stress in this field. The saying is "we don't do it for the money, we do it for the animals", but even for us, love isn't enough. We need money to survive away from work, and when work becomes your whole life, burnout if too real. I asked someone if they wanted the h3n2 (flu) vaccine as they were going to lower 48, she stated "so your telling me to get a vaccine just because there's an outbreak", she later became rude to the doctor.. all after asking if she would like her pet to be protected as we don't see the flu much in Alaska. Not even required, just recommended. But yet, even trying to help and educate can be met with a rude interaction.
⁹
yeah I guess people are a bit sensitive about vaccines
There's a similar crisis in Australia as well. Vets and Vet techs have high rates of burnout, anxiety, depression and, ahh the S word youtube hates people saying. A lot of it comes from the stress of being verbally abused by clients, sometimes times even physically. Also there are vet shortages in rural areas as well, which have an effect on agricultural areas in the same way Morgan is being affected. There is definitely a shortage in large animal vets and ones who will see farm animals.
Do most animals recover from the flu after a week or two?
Work in 5 ERs. People are NUTS
Maybe your local farmers could form a co-op and recruit vets graduating from Veterinary school?
That sounds like the ecologically friendly thing to do too.
As for the preg checks, maybe you could coordinate with other cattle farmers in the area and make an arrangement with a vet that lives further away to do all of your cattle in one trip. If there's enough to do for several days one of you could host the vet and the rest share the extra cost of having the vet travel to you.
That's a great idea!!!
Excellent advice 👏👏👏
Brilliant!
Or you can do what they did in the past.... remove the Bull at the proper time know that you will be having babies in the spring, with a cut off date :)
Do your best to pick some of those skills yourself. It’s what we’ve had to do here. My husband trims hooves, I take care of abscesses and lesions. I do vaccinations and we both take care of injuries. You can do this. Don’t give up. Keep the information coming and never give up. I’ve even helped neighbors to pull a calf and we’re in our seventies. We stand with you from Kansas. Part of the problem is that the large animal rural DVM’s came from farm backgrounds. There are fewer and fewer now. It’s easier to make money taking care of dogs and cats.
All the best to you and your husband. You are a vanishing breed.
Oh yeah, that IS the subject here.
I believe that Morgan is up to the task. Perhaps there are dairy farmers nearby
who will teach him to check for pregnancy the old fashioned way.
Exactly. I learned trauma care and animal care as a kid.
That is the best answer. Do the vaccines yourself. I use to have horses and I did the vaccines myself.
Morgan my next door neighbour here in Canada used to be a member of a Scottish Highland Cattle Association in the U.S and is a highland expert.He is probably one of the smartest most well connected dudes I know and I bet he can help❤ If I recall you’ve got an email around somewhere? If not I’ll tell him to comment in this thread
click on his icon it takes you to his home page. here click on about, scroll down for email address
I think you should stick to highlands or highland-hybrid cattle. They seem fantastic for Vermont. And just super cute of course. That's my vote!
Pam here….for profit colleges and exorbitant tuitions are forcing people out of the professions. Some communities are ‘banding’ together to pay for a student’s tuition in exchange for working in their community for so many years.
This is my thought as well!!! A community could pay college costs in exchange for a 10 year commitment.... for the right student/person.
I grew up on a dairy farm and I do not remember seeing a vet on the farm once. My Dad and I did all the things a vet is usually called for. Calf pulling, Prolapses, cuts and punctures. We lived on a lake and the cattle drank from it. It was a good fishing lake and twice, we had a cow that had sucked a daredevil in, that got stuck in the back of the throat on the tongue. My Dad put a 3 inch pipe in it mouth to the point of lure and held the cow still. I had to reach through the pipe and yank out the the treble hook. I was 8 yo the first time and 10 the last time. My arms were small enough to fit through the pipe. So yeah, if you don't have a vet, can't afford a vet or it was more expensive the value of the animal. You did all the vet stuff yourself. We did a C-section on one cow and I learned how to put in stitches for the different layers of tissue. The cow and calf both were fine, but the cow was culled later. Old farmers are a good resource for vet problems.
As far as preg checks. My dad knew when every one of his 100 cows came in heat and would separate them out for time with the bull their next cycle, when he had a group of about 10, because the bull would successfully cover that many. So about every month (except January and February) we would have 10 new calves. As a year round dairy, this meant a continuous supply of milk cows. And not breeding January and February meant there were less milking in (September, October and November), which was harvest season. Just a blast from the past.
Hey Morgan! As someone planning to become a vet, I completely hear what you’re saying about the situation. There is a huge vet demand not only in the US but all around the world, and it is only getting worse. These days, you are statistically more likely to get into med school partly due to the lack of vet universities globally. I specifically want to work with wildlife, exotics and maybe general large animals… which would be difficult as there are not many countries that support international students, have the right facilities and can actually expose those students to the right animals. Your animals deserve the right medical treatment, and it is terrible that they can’t receive it. The government in the US might be trying to find solutions, but this problem is everywhere, and vets who do want to work with the exciting animals tend to prefer places with more exotic species, like Oceana, Africa or Asia. Or zoos, for that matter. It isn’t just about jobs, either. Vets who want to do good in the world are less enticed by helping animals that will be slaughtered for meat anyway, even though they are just as alive as any other creature leading up to that moment. Also, many friends who find out about my career goal immediately take a discouraging stance, whether it be incessantly mentioning putting down pets or telling me the vet suicide rate is 3 times higher than any other medical field, it all adds on to the pressure of becoming a vet in the first place. What needs to happen is a change of mentality more than a change in politics or money. Instead of getting angry at vets for potentially high fees, people need to consider the costs that are factored in to it, for example. Vets are not even that financially stable in the end. A family member earns more than ten times the amount as a general surgeon than they ever did when they practiced general veterinary surgery. I am one of the very few people who are willing to take on those responsibilities, but so many more people turn away from the field because of these bigger issues.
As a reptile person, the lack of exotic vets has been going on for quite a while. Maybe even decades. I would think you would be able name your price to care for exotics. The demand is only growing.
I applied to Onderstepoort Vet school ( S Africa) in the 90's and the story was exactly the same. During Covid a friend of mine who was a Vet joined me in a Covid lab instead of Vet work as she didn't want to deal with constantly putting dogs down.
I think people
This is spot on. I am studying as well to but to be livestock nutritionist rather than a vet. There are not many people studying in the field.
@@daggaboom I have heard of vets who carry out pet e---------s who have a ritual for it, as a candle lit at the desk. That sounds like a respectful thing to do and one that makes the necessity more meaningful, at least.
I grew up on a farm in Iowa and the local large animal vet would come out to our farm as my Mother was a trained vet tech. She would help him which made him more amenable to traveling to our farm to take care of our cows, pigs, and horses. For dogs and cats we would drive into the nearest town for service. My mother cared for our birds with occasional advice from the local farm vet. Not saying you need to go back to school but maybe you can find a vet tech who is interested in farm animals and strike a deal ... you provide a home for them and they assist whatever vet you find.
Whoa! That situation is very serious for farm animals nationwide and has an impact on the food chain for all of us.
Kind of, the places where the vast majority of food comes from arent the ones who are struggling to find vets tho.
Potentially, but places with tons and tons of animals don't do vet stuff regularly for all of them anyway lol. Just at birth and before slaughter. It's really only an issue with small to medium size farms
@@colamity_5000 Feed lot finished cattle?
@@tomorrowhowever7488 its not about the stage its about the quantity. If your calving 500 head/year your gonna have a vet available to you. Smaller farms not so much. If your a real ranch with thousands of head its not even a question you'll have a vet. The feed lots with 10s of thousands of cows will have full time vets I imagine, though I've never been a part of an operation that size.
@@colamity_5000 There are co-ops for other things; why not veterinary service? For a fixed fee per each of so many operations under a certain number of animals, the whole co-op hires a dedicated vet?
As someone who has worked in a Vet office for most of my career, I can tell you one of the big reasons most DVM's don't want to do large animals is the simple physical risk. One of the Vets I worked with started his career with large animals and 5 years in he had to have back surgery from an on-the-job injury. He left large animal care and became an avian specialist. According to him, very few Vets retire still doing large animal care unless they work for corporate farms that can afford to have million-dollar safety equipment.
Same with farriers! I do not envy that job.
@@kanek0yuki my father saw some really bad kicks from horses while in vet school. A local farrier was forced into retirement and onto disability after a kick to the head. I have so much respect for those that work with large animals as it can be dangerous.
My wife was a vet tech for 10 years and recently left the field due to increased work and stress but not an increase in pay.
Same. I have a 4-year college degree in Biology with two more years of training to become a Certified Vet Tech (on top of 5 year’s experience as an assistant) and I’m expected to work for $13-18/hour and often with NO BENEFITS 😳😳😳. That’s why I retired from veterinary medicine….and that was just SMALL ANIMAL clinics
When choosing a field of work, always choose one where you can work for yourself
@@1337farmwell, no, just be aware of what the pay is when you enter school.
I’m having the same issue but a different field of work! I can’t leave due to financial issues in my life, but probably going to go somewhere else to work. It’s been more stress and not enough pay it’s ridiculous 🤦♀️
That is an outrageous pay scale for that much training.. I don't get it. Vets around here are charging way more than they used to. Are they just not passing on the profits to the help? Or is it malpractice insurance costs? Or are they putting all their profits into high tech stuff like xray machine etc? @@kestrel4294
My small community is dealing with this as well. It’s come down to a few vets going back to school to become large animal vets and farmers having to pack up their animals and bringing them to town to get care except in extreme emergencies. Most farmers are being trained by vets to handle things like bloat, pulling a struggling calf, having certain medications on hand now that the vet could only have, and video calls to talk you through what to do if the vet is in a different town an hr away
I am 72 years old. My grandfather had a farm, I learnt to treat ringworm hoof rot , sprained legs and do dressings when animals got tangled in fence wire. The big dirty job was pulling a breeched calf, after you went up and got a rope on with one hand while up to your shoulder in a cow. We could not afford a vet even if you could get one. The problem is not new. If you are gonna have animals you must be a Dr as well.
@@jimputnam2044 Good point, I remember Pete from 'Just a few acres farm' saying he does all the routine procedures himself as well. In fact I think he said he hasn't had a vet on his farm in several years.
My daughter is a vet tech and was a office manager at a clinic in a small town in Oregon, the practice was very busy since it drew clients from a huge area but the owners shut the clinic down after struggling for the last two years to keep vets on staff, no vets wanted to work out that far from bigger towns. My daughter now has to commute 45 minutes to a city vet clinic and she lost her office manager position she had worked so hard for and her and the whole rural region now has to drive 45 minutes to see a vet for their animals.
people raised their children with freedom to not maintain or take care of the place they grew up.
You start to see how society pays for letting children grow up "free".
Remember how children been raised to get educated and move into the cities... Education means no physical labor, meaning no vets, only graphic designers.
America isn't gonna change their definition of freedom, better get ready for life without vets.
Want a change? raise the children with more self preservation in mind.
Alot of people stiff vets.
As someone who's lived in rural Iowa much of my life, I feel like so many people are completely unaware of the issues like this faced by farmers, but which inevitably impact us all. I don't know of any solutions to the vet shortage, but I wanted to thank you for helping make others aware that it exists.
Also, while I have zero expertise with larger farm animals and their needs, as a trainer of working dogs I can offer a bit of input on Abby dog. I know I've commented before a couple times, but I just wanted to say that Abby did amazingly well in this video. I'm glad to see you putting her in the pen with the chickens again, since it's still a bit early to move on to having her with them outside the pen. What I saw in this video is *exactly* what you want to see her doing during this stage of her training.
When you let the birds out of the building, Abby watched them but not in a hyperfocused way. There was no lip licking, no stiff body language, no taking quick steps towards them before stopping herself. Just a calm, cool reaction of, "oh, there are chickens coming out of that building now - neat." And then she did the best thing you could hope for. She laid down and basically ignored the birds. Give her a couple more weeks at this level of training, and once you're seeing this type of behavior and zero increased, inappropriate attention to the birds from Abby every single day for that period of time, move on to the next step (which would involve you observing Abby and the birds outside the pen, where the birds are more likely to run).
Seriously, I cannot overstate how impressed I am with your level of dedication and patience when it comes to training Abby. If only every dog owner were the same way! Kudos to you on the incredible progress you and Abby have made. Give Abby a few extra scratches for me (Toby too, of course!). What a great pair of dogs.
University of Vermont School of Veterinary Medicine, have them come out and turn your farm into a teaching farm like teaching hospitals. They bring the Docklings, Doctors with short lab coats to learn about large breed animals and get an idea of how a eco responsible farm operates.
This problem has been cooking for years and we (in the veterinary community) have been warning everyone that this was coming! Keep in mind that vet med is weird. New vets come out with an average of $150k in debt, and often can’t qualify for loans to buy their own practices. So they have to work for other clinics as they pay off their student loans and try to build clientele. There’s also laws in the US that ONLY allow licensed veterinarians to own/operate a veterinary clinic. So the number of people who can be directly involved with financing, owning and operating a veterinary practice is highly limited.
I have a niece that practices veterinary medicine in the northeast kingdom of VT. Don’t recall the town’s name but know it is near a large lake that crosses the US boarder into Canada. That’s about all I can offer.
I've noticed that most vets out here in Iowa won't see poultry. They aren't seen as a valuable enough animal to be worth the appointment slot. There's even a place 20 minutes away that says on their website that they do exotics like parakeets and pet birds, but they said they won't see chickens.
I had a black jersey giant pullet (Laila) that broke her leg in a chicken tractor incident along with one of my young cockerels. The cockerel had to be humanely put down at home because he was in too bad of shape, but Laila had a lot of fight in her. She had a clean thigh break. We called every vet in a 2 hour radius and not ONE would see a chicken. They all kept telling me to just cull the bird because "you can't fix a thigh break" or "it's just a chicken." WELL this was my most promising hen for my breeding program and she wanted to live, so Joel and I set her leg ourselves. We immobilized with some cut and sanded popsicle sticks, sterile gauze, and vet wrap. Today? You'd never guess Laila ever broke anything. She is 1.5 years old with no limp or tenderness. She even became a mama on Easter and her son is my greatest breeding program prospect. Whoever says something like a clean break CAN'T be fixed doesn't know what they're talking about. Find a second opinion. And if they all say it can't be done? Do it anyways.
Our small city in northwestern Ontario is having a “vets in general” shortage. If you don’t have a vet for your cats or dogs the only options are to drive 4 hours west to a small town, or cross the border and drive 2 hours to a small town in northern Minnesota. As much as I would love to adopt a cat I’ve settled with fostering kittens through our local humane society.
Northwestern ontario has an everything shortage
This is an issue I’ve been thinking about for a long time, i myself am studying to be a vet, but it’s a tough issue. Often you can’t charge the same kind of prices for livestock since they are raised in large numbers and people can’t afford to spend a gazillion dollars on just one herd member. But at the same time, these areas do still need vets.
Although we are not as rural as Gold Shaw Farm, there is a lack of farm vets here, too. The vets that are here are hard to get appointments with. They are in such high demand. My daughter has decided to become a farm vet. I hope more young folks will want to choose this career path.
I work in rescue. Vets do not make a lot of money like people think. And the emotional toil and stress is so hard on them. They have a lot of depression and high suicide rates. Our emergency vet services in a major city are almost non-existent and very limited due to vet shortages.
The vet shortage is a HUGE problem in the US right now & sadly it’s only going to continue to get worse. There are not nearly enough vet schools & the few vet schools we have typically have very small class sizes (usually around 60-70 students per graduating class). Smaller class sizes are kind of necessary in vet school but many vet schools have been markedly increasing their class sizes in recent years trying to increase the number of vet’s but even that isn’t really going to have much of an impact b/c the demand is so high. We need more vet schools but it will take years to finance & build more vet schools. Many vet schools are short staffed too so staffing additional vet schools will also be an issues. Another major problem right now is a couple of major corporate companies are buying out a lot of the bigger practices & they are driving many of the smaller, private practices out of business. In addition to driving the smaller guys out of business, they are paying less & putting more work on their vet’s & vet techs so people are burning out or leaving for easier, higher paying jobs. The industry can’t afford to be losing any vet’s right now!!! The mental toll all of this (in addition to the mentally difficult stuff they deal w/daily) is taking on our nation’s veterinarian’s is causing a mental health crisis amongst vet’s as suicide rates of veterinarians has rapidly skyrocketed in the last several years. They are quickly climbing the ranks to be the leading career of those who are taking their lives. It’s so incredibly sad b/c many vet’s are such empathetic, kind & compassionate human beings!! I’m so glad u did this video to bring awareness the very real issue of the vet shortage in our country.
The lack of veterinarians if affecting urban areas as well. My 24 hour ER clinic had to go to 8 AM - 6 PM urgent care just because they lost enough vets where they coudn't cover all the hours. The pandemic was honestly BURTAL to the profession, plus the suicide rates for vets and techs are some of the worst in the country.
My area has a severe lack of vets for small animals like cats & dogs. Appts have been 2-3 months out or longer. The emergency vet clinics can rapidly empty your bank acct. The cost from my research is typically $1200.00 and up for an emergency vet visit, based on what 3 of my friends have paid in the last 2 years. So sad.
I live in Western Montana and our very large county has never had a vet (not even for dogs and cats). Up until two years ago we had one vet clinic 65 miles away that serviced dogs and cats and also had a large animal vet that would make house calls for livestock. The large animal vet retired and sold the practice to the small animal vet who worked for him. Within 6 months she closed the entire office and moved. Now our closest dog/cat vet is right at 100 miles away (some to the west of us and some to the east). There are no livestock vets in either location who will come to our county at all. Needles to say a two hundred mile round trip for even non-emergency vet care is daunting for many people. As a result we have a lower percentage of animals who are getting their very basic needs met, such as rabies shots and spay/neutering, It's a recipe for disaster. Over the last 40 years there have been a number of times our county has tried to entice a vet to open an office here and the results have been zero. Over those years not one single vet has even considered it, just a flat 'no'. In addition, our area is considered a prime vacation spot so it's not like we are asking vets to move to an ugly, nasty spot. It has always just baffled me that no one will even entertain the idea....yet here we are, vet-less.
@kubdanukker1564 - Maybe your county's farmers should consider doing a deal as in the "Northern Exposure" TV show. Provide the clinic, staff, home, healthcare benefits, appropriate vehicle and a good salary. Handle the finances on a cooperative-type basis. Each farmer pays a monthly or annual fee based on the number of number and type of large animals.
Perhaps allow the recruited vet to care for small animals (meaning pets) as a side business as long as large farm animals are first for appointments, etc. In other words: The salary and other benefits are for taking care of large farm animals with no other owner charges except for vaccines and drugs (maybe supplies, too). Time permitting, vet has a small animal practice for which normal charges are billed to the owners.
What you do Morgan is get in good with a old homestead farmer . On my farm or 5 generations we do all our own vet work . Pregnancy checks are unnecessary because in the spring it will be what ever it turns out to be . But the majority of injuries and shots can all be treated by the farmer .it just seems more overwhelming then it really is . Diagnosis of animals is in the books .
True, but many medications that used to be available at your local farm store are now available with a vet prescription only, and most vets (for liability reasons) won't prescribe without seeing the animal. Makes it tough to do your own care sometimes!
What I was told, during the pandemic a lot of the older Vets (boomers) went ahead and retired, some closing their offices that they had for many, many years. It was difficult to find a Vet where I live especially for emergency treatment. We do have the Vet School at Oregon State University, large and small animal and they will go to your farm within reason miles wise.
I wonder...can you get together with your farmer & homesteader neighbors to do a few of things:
1. Purchase a portable ultrasound machine and maybe hire someone to do like a 1-day workshop to teach everyone in the community who's interested how to use the ultrasound machine and how to read the imaging accurately?
2. Entice a few experienced farmers into teaching other farmers & homesteaders in the community how to administer the normal yearly vaccines (as well as things like hoof care, basic first aid, and handling common birthing issues for large animals).
3. Get together with others in the community and a vet that may be willing, where you can all schedule some of the yearly things at the same time and have a willing vet come out for an entire day or 2 where they go around around to each farm and see / treat everyone. (This could help to make the trip more appealing and financially worth it for a vet that is willing. Logistics will need to be worked outof course, but if you could find a vet willing to travel from 1-3 hours away to see & treat every participating farm & homestead over a 2-day span of time, it would allow all of you in the area to maintain a relationship with a vet so that you could more easily get scripts for meds etc.).
I don't know about Vermont, but I know that here in GA there's a shortage of skilled farriers (has been for many years I think) as well as rural / large animal and exotic vets. I could be wrong, but it seems like with a lot of the upcoming generation there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in farming & homesteading as an actual lifestyle, working with livestock, or learning trades that much of the older generations did regularly. As a society we're definitely losing skilled carpenters, leatherworkers, smithies, cobblers etc. But the thing is, I don't blame the younger generations one bit. The world they're growing up in is so different from what it was during the 80's and 90's when I was growing up, and *definitely* vastly different from the world of the 50's, 60's and 70's. Unless you can find these kinds of positions in a large city or metro area, the pay scale in rural areas just isn't enough to survive on as a young, single person (and maybe not even a couple where both are income-earners). When I was growing up you could generally expect things like housing to be cheaper in rural areas than in large cities and metro areas. These days that's not the case, though. I live well outside of Atlanta, GA (pretty much an hour out) where you'd expect housing to be much more affordable. But nope, even an hour to an hour and a half away, Atlanta's market is having a very significant effect on housing affordability. Then there's transportation being vastly more expensive these days and so on. As things continue to modernize we just seem to be moving further and further away from the trades and skills of an agrarian society.
The next few years would be an excellent time for those of us who farm or homestead to really focus heavily on building or perfecting the skills we've traditionally relied on other professionals for so that we can at least barter skills and projects and knowledge among ourselves. I don't see these shortages improving anytime soon. In fact, I honestly see them getting worse as society pushes us further away from this kind of lifestyle.
I'm in a very similar situation. I currently have no options for veterinary care for my calf and sheep. I've called every clinic that mentions anything besides dogs and cats within about an hour radius. I even asked them if they can refer me to another vet who serves my area for sheep or cattle. Nothing. I'm in southeastern Wisconsin.
The biggest problem I see with this is that I can't get prescription medications, like pain relief, steroids, or antibiotics, that I could use to treat my animals myself. Even if I am capable and want to take really good care of my livestock, I can't unless I find a vet that serves this area. (That's partly because of regulations attached to those meds, too. I suspect that the people who imposed the regulations don't have livestock or aren't in a livestock vet dessert.)
You said it. Vet school graduates with loan debt are going to take the higher paying positions and those are probably not going to be in rural communities
It's not just large animals. I'm trying to get a kitten neutered and I can't find anyone. We have a clinic but the next appointment is at the end of February so I get them going to have to take that.
I was originally going to school to become a livestock vet, but cost and availability of schools stopped me from continuing down that path. I have a farm myself now, and in my area the nearest livestock vet is 2 hrs drive away. I take care of all my vet needs at this point, and if i cant get something over the counter then i rely on herbal options. Im lucky i dont have high value animals like horses. This crisis of care is going to continue to compound, and it has already had a huge impact on our food sources. I really wish a doctorates degree wasnt required for vets to practice for at least livestock.
A big issue with the vet shortage is that it's not only extremely hard and expensive to become a veterinarian but veterinarian's get payed much lower in then doctor's even though their jobs are just as hard and important.
And they're treated with less respect.... or even humanity.
I think regarding the cows and breeding, there is a fine line of ending up with a cow that is physically too big for MachoMan to be able to get frisky with. He may would be able to service true Angus or Limousin cows. Just guessing though since I've not spent any time around the Highland cows to have a great idea of how they measure up to other (more common) breeds.
Hopefully the vet thing will work out for you. We used to have someone come in the way you do, once a year for a general check up and such. We found the guy we used through the auction barn we bought and sold through.
Have you ask a veterinarian school about either having students come out and learn, or asking if they recommend any good practices around your area?
I have generations of veternarians in my family. My grandfather's vet school costs 72,000 dollars a year now. Add in the fact that vet school is becoming harder and harder to get into, even in some cases harder than med school and its a poor outlook for vet students. Many vets I've talked to recommend prospective students go into human medicine instead these days.
72K A YEAR?!?!?! WHAT
That was exactly the advice I received.
@@rpemulis Yeah that's the problem with all this 'Collage debt forgiveness' and 'government financed schools'.
Not to mention the overregulation of the medical profession in the US regardless of patient type.
See the collages figured out that they could double dip by accepting all the grants that the government was giving them through the students who get 'free' collage and then increase tuition accordingly.
Combined with the standard inflation and well... the same greedy behavior attributed to 'Capitalists' is actually far more prevalent in our Academic Institutions. This means that tuitions prices are hiked up BECAUSE of government interventionalism in spite of the money trying to be used to bring the costs down.
They'll try to justify it by claiming campus improvements or increase pay for teachers but since US Medical Regulations put a hard cap on the number of students per class in any medical field, that money just instead goes to pay for useless fluff degrees like... well... all the political correctness stuff. Collages can't even increase the number of classes offered. There's a hard cap on that too.
And THAT nonsense was implemented because people started crying about how the Government needed to regulate the Medical Industry to solve the quality of healthcare. Hard capping the class sizes was to ensure that the students were getting a quality education to prevent medical mishaps.
So I have no hope in Government trying to solve this problem ether. The next logical step would be to start assigning people to these jobs in lottery style.
@@rpemuliswhere I went for engineering is now 70k a year it's basically 20k more than 10 years ago. I think lots of people don't understand how expensive it is to get good degrees from prestigious schools (obv ignoring the fact that it's not necessary for many fields). Kids get tossed around between "get a real degree/job", "you have to go to college", and "it's your fault you're in debt" when school prices are actually completely unrealistic for most people to afford.
This means the school where your grandfather studied? Or a school that he owns or is in an executive position at?
I am currently duel enrolling in college with the hope of one day going to veterinary school for mainly farm animals. My family has always wanted a farm and I would like to be able to handle most of it. It upsets me to see the decrease in vets in rural areas but knowing that's what I wanna do in the future helps me know that I can help with the problem
That’s great that you were able to pick up Annabelle’s feet to check her hooves, glad whatever it was resolved.
That’s definitely a huge problem. You outlined all the reasons it’s occurring and I would emphasize the fact that if it costs $$$ to be a vet you are definitely going to be where there is an known income. Dogs and cats. Etc. I hope you find a solution soon Edited- I would also add that the vets you need are going where the $$$ are too. Large cattle yards etc not the small rural farms. At least that’s my guess
Seems like a great time for a cattle vet to move into the area and write their own ticket. Could make big bucks being the only cow doc for hundreds of miles willing to work in the area.
Thank you for putting this video out Morgan. I dont know why I haven't been this career besides for that I live in a city now. But it's been my dream for a long time to work with equine, livestock, and other large or even oddball exotic farm animals. You kind of just re-sparked a bit of the passion I have for these guys. I feel i have a purpose, traveling farm vet💪
Could you create a communal fund to provide higher salaries for veterinarians and maybe a repayment plan for their student debt?
Try contacting your state veterinarian schools. Maybe they have some type of work program.
Here in my part of rural AZ we have had that issue for years. Too many vets specializing in high paying stuff; almost none of them are going for the general practitioner route. And yea a lot of them don't want to live in a really small town. That said I have dairy goats and have to do all of my own vet type things because there is not a single vet within 100 miles that will come to my place. So I read A LOT, consult with other knowledgable owners and hope for the best. I can do a lot of things and have an RN friend that could help with an IV or sutures if needed, tho I could handle sutures myself, just without a vet there won't be any painkiller meds.
Look at Alaska...they have vets that will do sort of like a circuit every so often. There's a vet that has a program on a cable channel who goes all over helping other areas..
Look at Alaska...they have vets that will do sort of like a circuit every so often. There's a vet that has a program on a cable channel who goes all over helping other areas..
We need more holistic vet care for the farm world, as well as more people in the homestead community willing to train folks to care for their own animals so we can do it ourselves
Not a veterinarian, but wanted to be. When I graduated high school in the early 90's, my area was not in need of additional large animal vets. There were only a handful of mobile large animal vets in the state, but they covered calls well and the new mobile vet would struggle to find enough work. Most of those vets are either retired, deceased, or on the brink of retirement now, with very few stepping up to fill their shoes. Part of the problem, I believe is not just the extended time in college (for large animal specialization) and the additional debt for those studying to become veterinarians, but also the lesser number of people in general who have no experience with livestock. I live close enough to two very good veternary colleges (UGA and Auburn) for this to not be an issue, but I'm certain that areas not close to veterinary colleges may have a more dire need of vets.
I've read there's a very high suicide rate among veterinarians. Such a shame they are going out of business.
you should prep a bunch of medical care stuff specifically for your animals, have an emergency box of medical stuff, bandages suitable for as many animals as you have, stuff to stop bleeding, stuff to remove or handle various stuff, you name it in prep, as well as birthing stuff incase something is wrong, just kinda everything under the sun. believe me when you don't need it, it "just takes up space" but once you need it, its a life saver and you never want to move it again!
Is your electrical box on the outside? That seems so 19th century. Together with the electrical wires on poles and slow rural internet, rural America seems stuck in another time sometimes.
Then again, I live close to Germany. A third of them haven't even realized it's not the 1980s anymore.
Vets that are willing to see poultry is a problem here in UK especially in bird flu season 😢 my daughter's favourite polish hen had a accident in night a couple of years ago and cos no vet wanted to see poultry, she could have been saved if someone was willing to see her straight away but cos it went on to 4-5 days only thing they could do when I did finally find one was to put her to sleep peacefully, me and my daughter was heartbroken, we'd raised her and our others from chick's and this one was special, she'd sit on our shoulders and sleep on our laps her name was Becky but her nickname was pecky Becky as when she was a chick she'd always peck sides of the brooder night and day lol, she was a sweet little hen, I've even had to drain fluid from a product brown layer who had acsites/water belly cos no vet would see any at time, I managed to give that hen a few more months of life before she passed away 😢💔 my son's friend is a training vet aiming at small animals,i wish more people would train for farm including poultry cos there's not many around ♥️👋🇬🇧
Glad you mentioned the pay, because 70k sure wouldn't be enough to make me move to a rural area.
Maybe have the farmers contribute to a fund to entice a vet from outside the area and then negotiate with county about the salary? Or have more young folks volunteer to help out with the clinic for some kind of incentive program?
In Oklahoma we have the same issue with people Doctors.
Sounds like states need to come up with a student loan reimbursement program to attract new vets.
There is a national vet crisis on every level. As someone who has been a vet assistant for 16 years, it's damn depressing. The angry people who don't understand why we can't get them an appointment for weeks, especially for new clients, and the anxiety and sadness as we call multiple referral centers/emergency care trying to find somewhere for a critically ill animal to find we have to send people farther and farther away to find somewhere that isn't at capacity. And us being booked out for appointments and surgeries, because we went from just under 10k clients to now over 12k and we only have 4 doctors, and who knows how many pets are spread out between all our active clients. It's frustrating and we are burning out from trying to accommodate as many patients as we can. 😭😭
Our area has finally opened a veterinarian school through the local university. Seems to be a real crisis.
There's a lot that goes into this. I actually wanted to be a livestock vet, but getting into veterinary school is, in some ways, *more* competitive than going into medical school to be a human doctor. Veterinary schools for livestock are small, there's relatively very few compared to the number of people needed, and... truth to be told, there is a lot of discouraging factors for going into livestock veterinary medicine. You covered a good number of them, like the cost of schooling compared to the salary, but also just the difference in customers.
Vermont also has the additional disadvantage of being somewhat economically depressed. You guys have an aging population, rent and food costs are high relative to wages, taxes are high. I'm not surprised the veterinary practice is struggling.
5:54 holy cow thats a chunker
Holstein genes will benefit your herd genetics down in your overall long term generations. It helps to have cattle that can give more milk for thier calves. Or another dairy type cattle.
I am also partial to herefords. They have a nice attitude and disposition. A bonus is they are hardy breed during winter time. Plus thier calves are so cute.
Don't fall for fake Morgan, please. Unfortunately, my elderly parents would not understand the different accounts. So, I feel the need to warn ppl. Love y'all.
Is it possible that Allison, currently a nurse for humans, could add veterinary nurse training, or otherwise get instruction on how to do things like ultrasound or x-ray a putatively pregnant cow with equipment you could afford? In connection with something like this, could remote veterinary consultation be arranged for things where Allison can't do a diagnosis personally but might be able to run tests and send images of examinations?
Not a short-term solution, but go back and watch the old TV show "Northern Exposure". Form a co-op like your solar co-op, agree to help pay for a vet student to get their degree, and in return, they agree to work for the "Rural Vet Co-op" RVCoop after graduation for X number of years. Also, work through local vet schools and colleges to make this work. Just a thought.
Suggestion: until generous loan support is passed by Congress, Form a regional “ co-op” for an ag animal vet, pay membership fees and use the money to subsidize the vet’s housing or loans.
Same problem here in Canada … but it’s still one of the program in school that it’s the hardest to get in ….
Even if you find another vet, they will probably be very overbooked so it’s time to seriously hit the books and study animal husbandry and medical care. I highly encourage you to also get help in training your cows to be calmly handled. Waiting for an emergency to see the consequences of not spending the time to gain their trust and cooperation is not the way to go. Good luck, I know how stressful it can be to not have trusted readily available vet care. Luckily we live in the time of Skype and if you can thoroughly examine and evaluate the problem you should be able to find some help out there and save the trailering to vet school hospital for when there’s really no other options.
Its nice to hear you talking about the future of your herd, and what you are thinking about in terms of genetic variety and in terms of usefulness how you have your breeding setup.
In particular if I were in your shoes Morgan...
1) Keep a registered HL Bull, and work to get unrelated HL Heifers/cows to keep a registered pure line. Would be a source of income down the line.
2) Keep your unregistered HL's to keep a breed suited particularly to your farm going, and not be afraid of introducing non HL genetics such as South Poll, with #1 in the list you'd always have a HL bull available to reinforce those genetics, but your herd of cows could be more diverse and bred towards what you want and need.
3) A line of dairy cows kept to cross with the HL bull. Just another use and diversification of your herd for more uses.
In terms of overall size, I'd be careful with trying to increase the size of your steers too much. The larger the animal the harder it can be to keep on grass for feed, and the more it is likely to absolutely tear up and cause impaction in your fields.
I would love to see you inquire about some South Poll's more suited for northern climates that could then be crossed with your HL bull, those are some great genetics and would lead to some wonderful grass fed beef cows in the future. Some SP lines are more hairy in the winter, and have those nice slick coats for the summer to help with the fly pressure being reduced.
This also maximizes getting the most out of what you already have, a HL registered bull on hand, and a quality group of HL heifers, some with diverse genetics already. IMO those are the bread and butter of what you should be going with for your herd, but it does make sense to keep a few cows and a line going for producing more registered HL in the future, doing this also doesn't really increase your current work load or infrastructure requirements.
Personally I think it would also make a whole lot of sense to get 1-2 dairy type cows for milking that could be bred with your HL Bull or AI'ed in order to produce pure milking cow heifers from time to time. You'd produce steers, keep the cows in milk, and could save the best heifers for future breeding/milk cows, and either sell or harvest the heifers you don't want to keep for future milking and breeding.
If you find you don't want to milk year round, you can let the calves have their fill, and only keep cows in milk when you want. Your pigs and chickens would love all that excess dairy when you do decide to harvest it though. Adding dairy would require more management and a bit of infrastructure to milk and process it, but like I said it doesn't have to be a year round commitment either.
One suggestion if you want to try out the milking thing would be to do it when you have them in the barn pen for the winter like last year when you tries with one of your HL cows. You have closer access to them and it would be a good time of year to give it a shot when you have more time for farm chores. In the spring and summer you can turn the milking cow out and either let the calf have all the milk or let her dry off.
Brown Swiss are my favorite.
In my state, Iowa, if you are a vet student that agrees to locate in an area that is designate in need of a veterinarian, all your student loans will be forgiven. This unfortunately will not combat the vets who leave because "There's nothing to do!". My town has the same problem attracting and keeping Doctors.
As to breeding larger cows, Why? Why would want a larger animal? You do realize that a larger animal means more hay, larger paddocks and more pugging. I also have talked to cattle ranchers in the area. Packing houses are going to smaller framed animals.
I wanted to be a veterinarian but it costs so much the state wouldn't pay for it and told me there wasn't enough demand.
A cooperative of farmer, paying together an extra salary to a vet to settle in the area. Extra Salary, a pool of client … just a start of an idea.
If you have amish in your area, they typically don't use veterans ,so maybe you could find one close to give advice they do there own veternarion.
Good luck!
Set up a coop with all the farmers in the area to pay for a vet to move to the area.
Adding to the veterinary issue is the new law about antibiotics being restricted to being dispensed by vets. You have to have a relationship with a vet to get certain meds. Many of the large animal vets just can't handle the non-stop 24-hour calls, either. My first vet gave up after-hours calls and now sends us to Texas A&M Vet School, but they are being overloaded, too. TAMU only has one Field Production vet, and it's a wait list to get her. My equine vet lost several young vets to the long hours away from family. He was one of the few who handled camelids as well, and he dropped camelids to go equine only. There is also the problem of vet burn-out and suicide. One alternative for pregnancy checks is to ask at a dairy if they use an AI tech. My brother does AI on his beef cows (for show calves) and he uses an independent vet tech trained in AI. Or, if a dairy does their own ultrasounds, maybe hire them to come. As far as vaccinations, you can buy them yourself. But you still need a vet to be able to get antibiotics and meds like painkillers.
"Adding to the veterinary issue is the new law about antibiotics being restricted to being dispensed by vets."
Exactly! Seems as though groups of people have an interest in making it harder to raise small/backyard herds/flocks of livestock. Wonder why?
@@cuznclive2236 I understand the issue with restricting antibiotics. We already have too much resistance to wormers for parasites due to overuse. If antibiotics are indiscriminately used, it can cause the growth of superbugs that no antibiotic can handle.
Can Vermont start its own state farm animal veterinarian training program?
Good idea!
Or subsidized scholarships for a period of time, or forgiven loans if you work in a rural area for 10 years…. Lots of possibilities.
Duck eggs are said to be the best for backing.
I wonder if you could do a same recipe for comparison purposes with different eggs in each (goose, chicken, duck)?
Here in Rochester we are losing our last 24 emergency vet because of a corporation that has bought all the vets up in the area and ruined them. The nearest one left will be all the way in Buffalo. It's a nightmare.
Rough. I honestly didn’t know there was a shortage.
It is my understanding that most people who enter Veterinary medicine only want to work with cute cuddly little Abby Dogs, Toby Dogs and Barn Cats. Big Beef animals, large hogs, and other animals are a specialty that can be threatening to those who become Vets. Vet schools need to step up, if they haven't by limiting the entry to small animal vet programs, and expand livestock sized animal program numbers.
All veterinarians are trained in all species. There are no small vs large training programs. Within veterinary school, students can elect to focus their studies on certain species, but all students have to take core courses and pass a boarding exam on all major species and practice types. The fact of the matter is that small animal medicine is much better paying, safer, and more attractive as a lifestyle to most prospective vets. Vet schools do try and accept a student body with a wide variety of career interests.
Maybe reach out to the University of Vermont - they have a vet school and see if they can either recommend someone or perhaps set up a teaching program to take the students out with a vet to see how it's done. It could be something that could be set up on a regular basis so the students get hands on experience? Worth a shot!
Bigger cows take more room and feed n the winter. Stick with what you have, you have a good thing going with the infrastructure you have in place.
Worker shortages could be the death of society. A lack of veternarians, for example, could threaten food security.
I believe the big factory farms have onsite vets that they retain to just work on their farm due to the large number of animals needing vaccines, hoof issues, and constant birthing. However, you're correct that food raised humanely will be facing a crisis as those operations are usually quite a bit smaller and can't afford to hire a vet just for themselves.
Hopefully your video will attract a vet to move to your area!
I feel for you and your animals. I live half a world away in Europe and only have a tiny dog.....but we also have a severe vet shortage. I am lucky to still have the same vet I did 30 odd years ago but when he retires....we have a serious problem. My dog is old enough to be seen the rest of his days by this vet, but it did made me decide to go without any animals until this problem is solved I am without a car and for emergencies, operations and weekend/hollidays I have to travel 40 miles wich just isnt an option in any way....
Its a worldwide thing driven by money sadly enough
Well that's a bit of a conundrum, but maybe someone here has some good ideas, all I can think of is a small cattle truck so that when necessary you can take your cattle however far the distance. I have faith with your due diligence Morgan, if there is a way to fix this problem you will and for the whole community if you can. I love little Rosie, she just wants to be a full time mom and she needs her own space, hope you reconsider her situation. Thanks Morgan for the update, glad your animals are in good health and hopefully will continue to remain that way. See you soon!
SUGGESTION…. Colleges & TECHNICAL schools of agriculture??
I live in Canada NS. We have a shortage of vets but worse is the bad shortage of Doctors and nurses. My family has been 5 years without a family DR. We have to go to a clinic and hope to get in. There seems to be a shortage of any type of worker from Dr. to restaurant server.
What's the nearest other farm that has Cattle, and who are THEY going to?
A real inscentive would be a something like federal PSLF program for rural vets it would ease the pay burden on clinics, while attracting younger vets to less desirable areas. Its unsustainable to charge people 280k+ (with 5-8% interest) to become vets then compenstate them 70k a year.
And perhaps vet programs should start expanding the definition of "vet" and who is qualified to do what. Human medicine has MDs/DOs, but also PAs and NPs who has authority to practice like a primary care provider, along with Rns and LPNs, CNAs, and MAs and Med techs. As far as I know, Vets don't have that, just vet techs. Its a huge burden of care. Imagine a practice could have a vetPA do the routine stuff, or while a Vet can do the complex or emergency situations that require a higher level of care.
Pretty crazy to me that they have a surplus of business but can’t offer better pay to attract workers, but choose to shut down instead. Logic is not logicing
This is crazy and we can't get antibiotics like we use to then no vets available. Please dont feel alone we are facing the same here in Fingerlakes NY.. Horses and dairy cows brings them money is small farms are facing hard times.. stay diligent Morgan we farmers will get through these times..
Belted Galloways seem to be a lovely breed, as are Meishan pigs. I think you should take a look at both breeds :) Also, contact a University, go speak to the Graduating class to tell them you have an ideal set up for a large animal vet to get their practice going - work with your County & the Co.'s next door to set up cheap accommodations, maybe get a dealership to logo a Van & donate it to the Vet for advertising while they are working....You Will Get this resolved! 👍🏼🍀❤
honestly if you have Highlands you do not need Belted Gallowyas. Meishand Pigs are nice and it is good that they get a new Hype, but maybe a Heritage Breed would be more fitting.
Could you and the other farmers petition one of the vets quitting (one that is going to stay local but find other employment) to do some part time freelance or something? Maybe you could work out a deal where she puts aside two days a month or something for farm calls, and if income becomes too inconsistent you could have like a subscription type model where everyone pays a small amount every month and get a reduced price on visits.