Around 10,000 trainee doctors resign in S. Korea, gov't warns of legal action
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- 99개 병원 전공의 사직 9,909명 "전공의 29일까지 복귀" 최후통첩
Almost 10-thousand junior doctors resigned as of Monday night, which is around 80-percent of the total trainees at around 1 hundred hospitals.
To get them to return to work, the government has set an ultimatum --to go back to their places of employment by this Thursday, OR face legal action.
The collective action by the doctors is to protest the Yoon administration's plan to increase the medical school enrollment quota.
And the protest is leading to some serious disruptions in medical services, with one patient in her 80s having died after the ambulance crew searched for an hour to find an available emergency room that would take her.
What is the fundamental reason behind this collective action?
And how should it be dealt with?
For this, we have invited Professor Howard Lee from Seoul National University.
Professor Lee, welcome.
We also have Professor Peter Chin-Hong at the University of California, San Francisco.
Good to have you with us, Professor Chin-hong.
(LEE) Q1. I would like to first ask how hospitals and doctors' clinics are grappling with disruptions to medical services as trainee doctors extended their walkout. Could you share with us how serious the situation is?
(CHIN-HONG) Q2. I wonder how foreign media outlets and doctors abroad are seeing such "vacuum" in medical services in the country. What's your take on this?
(LEE) Q3. In response to the departure of doctors, the government raised its four-scale health care service crisis gauge to the highest level of "serious" on Friday and came up with a variety of measures including fully allowing telemedicine services for all hospitals. Could you tell us in detail how these measures are working out and whether they are going to be effective?
(CHIN-HONG) Q4. Another measure the government came up with is having physician assistants take over some of the duties of doctors. Though there is no separate license under the current Medical Service Act, the government decided to let them temporarily carry out the doctors' duties starting Tuesday. Do other countries have such licenses?
(LEE) Q5. We have discussed how the situation is unfolding and how the government is trying to deal with it. Let's get to the basic question. Originally, doctors partly agreed to increase the number of doctors as well and the Yoon administration had also prepared some appeasement plans for the medical community. But almost 10-thousand junior doctors are participating in collective action. What is the fundamental reason behind this walkout?
(LEE) Q6. The government set a deadline for trainee doctors to return to work by Thursday, saying it will not hold them accountable. If they don't, they will face legal action,.. such as possible suspensions or revocations of medical licenses. How does the medical community see such a measure? Will this be able to persuade them?
(CHIN-HONG) Q7. Given that South Korea is not the only country suffering from an aging population and low fertility rate, there must be other countries that are dealing with doctor shortages. Could you share cases from other countries?
(CHIN-HONG) Q8. Sometimes it is better to refer to cases overseas. Are there any examples of countries that were able to solve the shortage of doctors well without any hiccups?
(LEE/EXTRA) Q9. The education ministry has reportedly asked medical schools to finalize the increased enrollment quota number. In line with the admissions increase of two thousand, the government has vowed to provide support for high-quality medical education and training environments in schools. How do you see some of the policies the government brought in for this?
(BOTH) Q10. Rising tensions between the government and the medical community definitely need to be dealt with as soon as possible so that no more patients suffer from a lack of medical services in the country. In what way should the issue be solved?
Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for today's edition.
Thank you, Professor Lee and Professor Chin-hong for your time and insights.
We appreciate it.
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2024-02-27, 18:30 (KST)
“A restriction to 80 hours a week” still sounds crazy. You’re playing with lives if you expect trainee doctors to make important decisions when they are sleep deprived, overworked and underpaid. Same, except for being underpaid, goes for full certified doctors…
and 36 hours shift
It's crazy to me how it has become normalized to overwork people whose jobs involve making decisions that can save or take lives. They should be the most rested people in the job market!
Maybe 60 hours work week is more reasonable. But this is true in every hospital around the world.
I am not from South Korea. I saw it from another mainstream news channel where they said that the doctors are simply spoiled and they are protesting because South Korea is introducing new vacancy pools in the health industry, which will make the doctor's salaries lower, due to the change in market supply-demand.
It seems like there is much more to it though.
lack of sleep can affect your immune system...
Funny. S Korea addressing this problem the same way they adress the childless problem. More pressure. 😂😂😂
Exactly. Now you see why most of us are stressed out all the time.
Oh gosh your smart-arse knows everything. Why don't you rule the world with your smart-arse since you know it all? 😂😂😂
@@etvow huh what?
Koreans today have much less pressure than Koreans ever had in history. Pressure has nothing to do with low birthrate. Korea is very densely populated. Its more densely populated than ever before. Perhaps Koreans just want to be less densely populated. You can't grow a population forever.
@@etvow you okay?
You can't force them to work if they are underpaid. Paid them fairly
the goverment can persuade them to take massive amount of loan, then force them to work (to pay for those loans)
It's not about money here. They just want becoming a doctor to remain a more exclusive specialty. They are pissed off that more people are being allowed to become medical students
@@KP-pj5yb It is a fact. Korea is a very elitist society and this job is much conveted. This is simply exemplified by the fact that they have never rioted simply demanding for more pay despite pay being an issue for decades but have immediately organized strikes the 2 times that increasing the number of medical students and thus doctors has been proposed
What is "fair" sir? That's the tricky part... who determines what's fair?
S Korea reverting to its fascist roots.
Not allowed to quit one’s job??? How is south korea different from the north? This is stupid
S.K and N.K split was led by the USA, because they didn't think the people had a right to choose anything but capitalism. 🤷🏾♀️
All at the same time? With no negotiations with an employer? Left patients untreated and in danger? Wow what a "good" doctors.
@@MaruskaStarshayaDoctor's lives are not worth less than they patients they serve, they have the right to not be treated like indentured workers.
@@MaruskaStarshaya
Doctors who are overworked are dangerous because they make life-changing mistakes.
It's South Korea, it's 'democratic' in appearance but really owned by 5-6 major South Korea Corporations. North Korea is more theocratic monarchy disguise as 'communism', South Korea is a Corporate state pretending to be 'Democracy'. If recall correctly, the ruling companies are Samsung, Hyundai, SK, LG... the others I am not sure.
The wolves are upset the sheep won't reproduce
- random wise quote -
skibidi toilet
Hell I wouldn't there or the u s
Nailed it.
WOW! 10,000!!! And the Government would rather force labor than resolve!!!! That's an issue!!!
U force trainees docs to go back to work? U must be kidding….i don’t dare to see an angry,upset doc. My life is more precious than that
those 10k doctor (80% of south korean doctors) are trying to prevent more students from entering the medical field to stifle competition (you can literally google this). this is not about low wages, or unfair treatment. this is about the social status of being a doctor in south Korea. you are projecting our western bs to the eastern world. you are spreading misinformation, lisa!
Happened here in the US with the 2022 Rail Worker strike. A lot of people dgaf. They are okay with tyranny... until it happens to them. But since they didn't come to their aid... they will not come for their aid when needed either. The same will happen in S.Korea... none of the citizens will help... they will just let gov do what they want as per usual.
Derailments cause of less maintainence ir what? I think the numbers looks too high, not just usa.
Authoritarianism is rising EVERYwhere, it really is.
Which is scary
Doctors. Teachers. Good jobs that were once considered a sure way to a cushion retirement is no longer good. People are fed up with the government. Not just in SK but everywhere.
Cushion retirment seems only possible nowadays for politicians
@@dlady4*And very popular influencers, specifically the few that are worth millions
just resigned as a pubplic school teacher. Toxic environment 😂
👏🏻👏🏻
I will not work in any capacity for a government period. All corrupt. Those dr's should all say screw it and quit. Throw the gov the middle finger
Forcing people to work or go to jail !
Kim Jong Un is laughing at the Hypocrisy !
Doctors, like police and air traffic controllers etc, are essential for public safety. Unlike police and air traffic controllers, they are also the most respected job in society. Unless they can show how this labor action benefits others and not just themselves, the phrase “cry me a river” applies here. Plenty of Chinese and Southeast Asian doctors would be happy to help out.
Gov sues the junior doctor for what?? Exercise their freedom to quit their job? Doesn’t sound like a true Republic country would say. This sounds like a retaliation against people who exercise their freedom.
The union erosion in the US is a thing as well. Not perhaps exactly the same situation but it's there
I can understand their right to quit but they did it by collusion and they knew it will collapse medical system so they are responsible for the consequences.
Also their main point is "to not let rivals get their licenses" - very selfish and sabotaging.
@@MaruskaStarshaya If high emotional demand professionals that serve the public aren't treated well, I guess less people will go into those fields. It will create a demand and things will get better. In the meantime everyone is screwed. It would be nice to skip the screwed part
South Korea is owned by Chaebols (basically business oligarchs). So not too surprising. Only a matter of time til they get something similar to a French revolution 😅
@@MaruskaStarshayait’s called a workers strike. They are using their labor power after years of working under unsustainable conditions. The government wants them to work hours that are not possible for a human being.
The junior drs work up to 100hr+ a week but are only paid $1500-3000. That’s not sustainable. And I’d like to see the government suspend all 9000 drs license😂 Judging by all the procedures and appointments canceled, those poorly paid trainee drs are extremely vital and would lead to a total medical system collapse as those who stayed burn out.
stay healthy. eat healthy. survival of the fittest.
😅@@lifeisgood2542
The increase medical student intake can be done in stages. A sudden surge of 30 % is absurd.
Yup another reason why we need more doctors
Nope ... let them all walk out ... and see whether the government has the nerve ... its just an attempt to kick the can dowm the road ... the govt have no idea what to do really
Gotta give those 10,000 doctors for having guts and common understanding and unity. Well done!
Over working medical personnel is not a good idea!!! An overworked person is not operating at their best, how can people still think this is healthy???
Corporate greed.
They don't care about healthy. They only care about making the "machine" go, so they can keep printing money. What *I* don't understand, is that these chumps don't even care about their "money machine" being functional, let alone sustainable... That's so dumb to me.
@@shortswarrior69 All the Korean government is gambling with the the lives of patients in the government's bid to make off with profits meant for the medical staff in the industry, while pressuring them to EITHER be as close to ragged machine slaves as possible OR face federal retaliation for demanding to be treated as humans that deserve to live.
There, I fixed your comment for you. 🤗
@shortswarrior69 lame response
Doctors will be able to work less hours if there are more doctors… but these doctors are protesting the fact that medical schools are going to increase quotas and accept more people into medical school… I don’t understand why they’re protesting something that will benefit their working hours in the long run 😂
Overworked and underpaid, unfair hierarchy system.
But wait, they didn't ask for a rise or a work time cut, they simply are against competitors
It happens when you have a quasi-govt/socialistic medical system that's removed from the free market. 🙏
Yeah and guess what? America will likely invest into bringing these sorts of healthcare workers In the US, replacing doctors and nurses in America. They claim there’s a nursing and doctor shortage in America but they don’t want to invest in the resources to make sure we have people who Can fulfill those roles because they do not care about what’s best for American citizens
US medical system is removed from a free market. @@SavanaT
@@SavanaTyou can’t even explain the connection. You know the U.S. has the same issue, possibly worse. A “market” based healthcare system yields worse outcomes. Only people that can afford the healthcare get it. Doesn’t solve anything, just reinforces hierarchies.
Goshhh that’s toxic by the gov….go back to work or else!??
Well, asians aint that far like the west, when it comes to human rights
I don't agree w/ the govt decree, but the US does that for essential services like air traffic controllers. It's been done b4, but I disagree w/ the actions of both parties. It's not good for society. 🙏
Its in the blood. Look at the North, how they are treating their people...
@@leiskorn4139it has nothing to with them being Asian. Western states have a very dark history as it relates to labor. The west has a dark history as it relates to human rights see WWII AND the clnztn. Furthermore, have you heard of the transatlantic slave trade, or chattel slavery?
South Korea is a vassal state to the U.S. with fascist roots. Instead of solving the economic problem, they’ll just use more authoritarian measures. That’s it.
@@SavanaTit’s inherently fascist. It’s what corporations want universally, a workforce that can’t protest, and paid as little as possible, with no safety standards/regulations
I love this new generation, their not putting up with the buxxsxit. Good for them👏
80!!! Hours a week, that’s the compromise! What the hell was it before?!
DarkStar there were NO restrictions..they started in early 2000s the year before I started residency- thankfully by the time I started we were “restricted “ to work no more than 30 hrs straight at a time (some specialties like surgery and neurosurgery would lie on their hours and their attending staff expected it).
Over 100 before
It's astonishing that they have to put in a restriction to limit work hours to 80 when even that's way too many hours to work.
Shocking behaviour using the stick to get then back on the track rather than understand the situation and address the problems, great example that people who are in government are the wrong people!!
80 hrs and paid sh1t , same here in the states. Doctor's retiring early, quitting, career change. We're failing our society
no. you're not. everyone has the right to choose which profession they want to pursue. people just realized that the stress is not directly proportional to the income. better go viral in socmed and earn easy money than serve the community.
@@lifeisgood2542yeah you go do that 😂😂😂
Yeah, right. The doctors are get paid very well in US.
@@tl1533most of the money is going to hospital administrators, investors, and insurance companies. Doctors are just another disposable employee being squeezed by the company they work for. In the US, non-profit hospitals are being run like for-profit businesses. The executives at the top of these companies aren’t doctors, they don’t even have any healthcare training, they have business/management backgrounds.
Doctors are paid very well in States..I have 4 doctors in my family circle.
Noone can work effectively for 100hrs!!! The medical profession and training of doctors MUST be reformed! Would you want to fly on a plane where the pilot has already worked 90hrs previously?
Not to worry! The co-pilot only worked 88 hours!!
That is how you do a proper protest. I worked an average of 12-15 hours everyday. When I call out my colleagues and said that we can't work like this. In my own country around 74% of doctors have some sort of mental illness. I myself had an episode of very bad anxiety attack and moderate depression. Do you know how depressing it is, to be going to work at 5am in the morning while it is still dark and come out from the hospital after work at 11pm-12am at night and it is dark? I tried to call for me, my friends and colleagues to come together and voice this problem. But many are scared their names will be marked by the government.
So in the end I choose to protect myself and quit medicine. Had a friends who got into drugs, got into accident because he slept off while driving, suicide, and death because of extreme exhaustion.
If you ask me, it isn't about the pay. If you are happy working, you won't be complaining about pay. The main problem is the extreme working hours. Some might say, "there are people who worked more hours". Yeah, but are they working with their brains all day all the time? Try using your brain while you are exhausted physically, with not enough rest and with the added stress of knowing if you make a mistake that could cause someone's life. Then you can come and talk.
What do you expect? Their society are well known for treating humans like robots. Use until no longer useful, then throw into the garbage. What an educated society that is.
I am sorry our system has failed you and failed your colleagues like it is failing us all. We need to come together, because we are suffering this globally. The people in charge are colluding together, and so should we, to fight them and protect ourselves.
it's illegal for me to work more than 12h/day and I know 12 sucks ass. It's difficult to imagine more
It just how incompetent gov and its people are. If more people phoned in, took better care of themselves... Gov made sureuniversities actually taight students. You could learn quite a bit first aid in junior school
Are you in Korea? Just curious
I think medicine has this everywhere, I know it happens here in America
Long labor hours, bad working condition, oppresive government regime cracking down worker uprising, i pray for the people in North Kor.. sorry.. South Korea.
True hahaha it's happening in every country whether communist or not
It's the same in USA. Residents (basically junior doctors) get paid very, little compared to the hours they have to work. $60k a yr but working 80 hrs a week.
😂….my thoughts exactly!!!
Yeah, that's why they are against newcomers who can ease workload .. The logic has left the chat...
@@BookNerd4MusicWhat!? That's basically a first year nurse's salary. I had no idea we are paid similar no wonder new nurses can delegate to junior resident doctors first
One of my student is a doctor but decided to resign and learn English to work abroad because of this issue... we talked about it few months before the end of last year and now it's really happening.
Or your friend could become a children’s doctor or midwife and have very little work 😅
Let me sort this out. The job itself has a lot of pressure, and that's given like it or not, but there's more pressure from the seniors, patients and their family. The long hours of work and the pay are so little. Hence, more doctors choose to go to plastic surgery, which gets better pay and more flexible work hours. Hence, the doctors are short staffed, and they need to work more, and that's going in circles.
And the people who have money (power) and who are higher in the profesional hierarchy, don’t really get badly affected by the shortage. They can afford higher costs for the fewer medical resources left and keep their workloads manageable until they retire
And that's why they are against newcomers .. nonsense. Why not striking for a rise or workload cut?
Same with pediatrics in S. Korea. They are so short on Pediatricians EDs turn emergency children pt away and a couple of them have died because of it. I think the doctors go for money in this profession are greedy. They aren't there for the patient. This generation of doctors expect more and give less.
It seems you did not listen.
The trainees walked out because the government wanted to admit *MORE* trainees in a very high number.
This isn't about money but prestige/honor.
Let me explain:
These people went to a system that had from the beginning high demands: admitance, training hours, tests etc.
They made it. They are proud that they survived. Their ego is bound to that pride. Some people did "give up", some forever - which in turn made the survivors more proud of their triumph.
The government letting people in that did not fight that hard devalues their own sacrifice/accomplishments - makes them ask why they did work that hard.
It's a bit like massinflation.
You worked hard and got well paid. But hyperinflation means the money is worthless and even higher poisitions are now almost as worthless as lower ones.
Positions are important not only for the money but for the station/rank you have with it - the respect you are due for it.
You are talking about different problems that make it harder but were not the reason for the walk out/resigning.
@@ruthfischer7615 S.Korea has a shortage of doctors. Those who were so proud t "get in" didn't go to serve the public with their prestige, but go into specialities that make money, leaving other specialities understaffed like Pediatrics. Do you realize because of the low number of Koreans going into Pediatrics, hospital have had to turn babies and children with emergencies away. Overnight emergencies are not allowed? There have been children who have died because of this.
If the govt is involved in National Healthcare, they have to ensure patients have doctors available for care. The long wait times are an issue. Patients have complained and the Govt is answering their complaints. Doctors need to know their place and the profession they chose is to treat people, not for rank. Not for prestige. Your generation doesn't know that many older physicians are tired of your soft bullshit wanting money and the prestige while you complain about having to care for patients. That's what you went to school for. It's a dirty job. It's a grueling job. Not everyone should be doctors. High intelligence does not mean you should go be a doctor to please your parents. There is more to being a doctor than just good fucking grades. It takes a lot of sacrifice and youth today don't have what it takes.
Forcing them to work without the means to survive without it is no different than slavery. Poor woman though 😢
They can survive fine and make good money once they've completed training.
It IS slavery, by definition.
not how this works kiddo.
@@theterribleanimator1793 Not being able to resign IS slavery, by definition. "Work or master will put you in the cage again" is not morally justifiable, no matter how you legally try.
@@WlmaAlexender-zl6nx Oh sorry, i was talking to the idiot that commented first.
Wow didnt know this is happening worldwide. These doctors who quit were brave to stand for themselves. ❤
Doctors are people who love people and want to help others! If the government is fighting doctors then it has lost its perspective! These doctors need our support and they need MONEY to survive. Doctors are more important than politicians and should be paid as such!
We hope all doctors are compassionate caregivers. Sadly, however, that is not always the case.
Doctor trainees also need to be healthy and rested - to do a competent job helping patients!
Lol in other parts of the world could be but not in here, in Korea being a doctor is an elitist dream job that gives you respect, status and money and only top smartest 0.1% get a chance to even try, has nothing to do with vocation or trying to help others...
LOL the majority of doctors care about money and status not people. I managed doctors so I know them well. You are fooled.
Don't be fooled, the strike could have happened many times before but they've only done so whenever the government has proposed to increase the number of students in recent years to reduce the shortage of medics, using salaries as an excuse
Don't know if I wanna be seen by a doctor who is overworked, underpaid, stress level off the charts, who is lacking sleep. Best patient care is achieved if you take care of the doctors and nurses' well-being.
True.
But not what this is about at all.
This is about the walk-out of ca. 10 000 trainee doctors that are essential to the health system.
And they walk out BECAUSE they have worked so hard and feel just putting so many more trainee doctors in the system that HAVEN'T devalues them as people.
@@ruthfischer7615 devalued compared to who?
if maintaining some number of people as doctors is always essential its only because accomodating some number of people "as people" is never essential. doctors are respected because being essential is a voluntary choice, not because they bank on the value of people "as people" inherently by doing their job.
@@SplendidKunoichi
You and I wish.
But a lot of people become a doctor for different reasons.
And devaluing happens when a mass increases - like for food prices or money itself.
Think about it like giving the second or later place a gold medal, too - despite only one person having earned it.
Korea has a strict social class system - as it comes from Kunfuzianism.
It speaks about how you have to adress other people and how you are spoken to.
being higher class literally can mean you have the means to create a family/live a "normal" life.
Wikipedia has an article on "n-po generation" which is a result of late capitalism. I find it very scarry as this phrase it used by TV hosts and politicians, too.
@@fishy2939
Except is it even the government who pays them and makes the hours?
Like I said:
I think it is more about status than anything else.
Which does not mean that the other stuff is not a problem.
But the "other stuff" is a problem globally - including the USA.
😢 doctors are not slaves if they quit, they quit blame the goverment about it. Doctors are less appreciated in south korea i think.😢
This is criminal to portray it as a doctor problem. These are indentured servants who have no representation in the healthcare system. The fact is that governments don’t want to pay for the costs of real quality healthcare. These people are working their hearts out with very little money or time to rest. The insertion of “advanced practice practitioners” is a temporary effort to give the illusion of quality healthcare. These are lesser trained personnel who are indoctrinated to apply protocols. It is not a sustainable path to quality, unless you define quality as following protocols.
The savings are not clearly more as their insistence for higher pay is no different than those of doctors.
The system needs a comprehensive overhaul starting with training of physicians and nurses to administrators, hospitals, doctors, nurses, and advanced practice practitioners.
Insurance companies should not be public companies traded on the stock market with focus on making profit every quarter. In addition, there is a lot of middle management that gets paid that do not increase quality. Research in drugs and medical equipment should not be then used as excuse to gauge prices to "make back" the R&D spent so that again those publicly traded medical equipment and pharmaceutical companies can reward stock holders and fat cat c-suite
Our residential doctors are paid about $1,000 a week so it's not actually that different...
While this is a problem (globally) this was not the main topic of this conversation but a side topic.
The main news was the walk out of ca. 10 000 trainee doctors.
They did not walk out because of money.
They walked out because the government wanted to "flood" their work with people that have not earned the poisiton like them, that had not to make their sacrifice - devaluing them as people "over night".
The government not only issued work commencement orders to junior doctors who submitted resignation letters but also pressured them by threatening the maximum legal penalty if they did not return to work at the hospital. In South Korea, the maximum legal penalty is the death penalty. They obtained the contact information and home addresses of thousands of junior doctors employed by private hospitals and delivered the work commencement orders not only via mobile messages but also through postal mail. Additionally, they imposed a travel ban on male doctors. It's questionable if we're in the 21st century.
The veneer of democracy is thinner than one thinks in many countries. :(
@@xfranczeskax
pretty much in every country.
I'm watcing what happens in my country but I can also see it in countries like the USA:
if Trump becomes president again you are unlikely to have a democracy left by the time it should officially end his office.
All these comments are from Korean doctors who left their patient to suffer and die even though Korea has one of the lowest OECD doctor to patient ratio
Isnt it illegal to force labor? Even if these doctors already hand in their resignation letters, its the hospitals who did not accept their resignation.
For a moment there I thought we were talking about North Korea. I guess the government isn't at all that different from the north when it comes to labor.
80 hours a week is beyond insane
agreed! overworked and underpaid. we need to step up
and that is NOT why they walked out.
They walked out because "flooding" the system with a high number of people that did not archieve as much as them/worked as hard as them/sacrificed/survived as much as them - devalues exactly that.
They are proud of what they achieved/worked for and this hiering devalues that.
Tell the government to pay those doctors more since they already charge an arm and a leg for everything.
can't that will eat into the profits of the insurance and big pharmaceuticals and share holders. the patients will be robed blind and the doctors worked to the bone. thats how the world works now
This exploitation of junior doctors happens too in Singapore. Their grievances must be addressed.
Singapore is a nightmare. Government criticism is rewarded with jail time. Good comment. I learn something new everyday.
Exploitation happens everywhere?
More in places like Singapore and Hong Kong. You need a reality check@@michaeltan7257
Than1k God we are respected in the Philippines!!!! Bravo Pilipinas!
Name one asian country that does not exploit people
I have nothing but utmost RESPECT for the Korean people, and they are inspiring us worldwide. The women are *_refusing_* to give birth (my applause for the 4B movement), and the people are *_fighting_* back against this "work-culture", which is nothing but slavery. Working 100 hours a week? It's inhumane.
I hope more people everywhere follow suit, especially in my country in the US, and continue to push back with all our strength against these conditions. It's not just the medical community facing these problems. But their action demonstrates how badly things have gone.
So many of us work NON-stop, and yet we can't afford ANYTHING. No home ownership, struggling to pay rent/keep a roof over their heads, struggling to afford food. And OF COURSE there are shortages with doctors, education in Korea, AND EVERYWHERE, else is SO expensive!!!
This is nothing but GREED and tyranny because many of these officials have _holdings_ in these companies. They are incentivized to bleed us dry for labor and to do nothing to stop it. The profits are some of the highest they've ever been at any time in modern history, across the globe, but it is NOT being distributed to the people. We are working so hard, but nearly NONE of us are benefiting from this work! So why do it!? When you work non-stop with no substantial return, how is it not slavery??
ALL of us are suffering under the boot of this capitalistic nightmare that is choking us down so badly that it is overriding our biological desire to even reproduce at all. These officials are not listening. Every day, normal people are being pushed to the edge, just trying to survive. We are all tired of this. More of us are unhappy in this system than we are happy. And sooner or later, they _will_ learn to hear us. No matter what, remember that we outnumber them.
What's the difference between 10,000 quitting vs 10,000 never joining.
I suppose you don't waste resources training 10k people if they never join in the first place. On the other hand, the 10k quitting young at least do some work before quitting.
They are as new doctors working over 100 hrs a week. Overseen by a senior doctor.
None. There is no difference, vugu.
@shortswarrior69 Chaebois politicians and judges left patients to suffer and die. Nothing stopping THEM from learning medicine and becoming doctors.
You shouldn't be able to force people to work under threat of law. That is slavery
DUH! EXACTLY!
Sounds like the same way the U.K. has been treating both their doctors and nurses. Low pay and too much work and too little respect.
We are desperate for more Doctors and Nurses in Canada! It’s scary. Some of the new generation trainee’s are finding it too hard and drop out. 😢
Canada certification is take too much commitment
Is it too hard or too much work, causing too much stress for little pay or is it too hard / difficult academically?
People know their worth. Either pay them like you value their input or prepare to have a shrinking doctor pool.
As for patients with self inflicted issues, it's a good time to take your health more seriously. If you smoke, stop. Drink excessively, stop. Eat better, exercise, reduce your stress, and so on.
Doctors aren't magical wizards.
My mum is a nurse(born mid 1970s) and it's just a different standard. She would get PAID to go to nursing school back in the 1980s and the 1990s but now you need to pay a shit ton of money just to get a nursing degree. Not worth it for the pay
In Canada not only the hours of work but the paper work after the consultation takes a tall on people
@hayley4032 In the 80s & 90s, your mother was still in middle - high school.
And no, nursing school doesn't have to cost a 'shit ton of money'. There's a nationwide nurse shortage. There's many pathways to nursing school that don't require lots of money being handed over. There are many grants out there that seek to alleviate the cost burden to sure up the crisis. Most hospitals have programs where they offer reimbursement to CNAs and others to move into nursing.
Also, unlike for your mother's generation, high school students are graduating with a year or so of a nursing degree or some even medical tech degree. Which often times will open them up to available options that hospitals have for them to get trained and education as a nurse.
There's free money for so many things out there. Ppl just need to not take no for an answer and keep digging until they find grants and programs that work for their situation.
legal action for those who resigned? How? They aren't employed anymore. Or did I understand something wrong? And they aren't slaves, I hope. So what legal action can be taken against someone who decided not to work for someone? It is free market, based on demand and supply. You can sell, or not, your labour, knowledge, experience, competences to the one that offers the most, or you don't. One can buy/hire these skills, or not. This treat for legal consequences seems like huge bluff to me.
Culture in government must change in every country. Our government no longer care about the mental health of citizens We see corporations ruining the lives of millions of people. I want to be in government. My first priority in the United States would be public safety and health.
You can add worker's rights to that agenda, in particular as we are about to enter the age of artificial intelligence and enormous job losses as a result!
Wow. My sweet summer child.
Governments/rulers rarely ever cared - that is not new - especially not about mental health.
Ever heard of white feathers given to men that did not volunteer to fight immidetly in WWI? Shellshock and whatever else the phenomenon was called?
Corporations are not any more "evil" than people in power ever were.
You should read more about history.
People often come with high ideas into politics - but the system rarely sustains those and you are ground up till you are cynic about it. Otherwise you are unlikely to go very far in the first place.
It can work on the lower political circles like for a city but it won't work much higher.
Context is so important.
You want to do X but it is the way because of w and y. To do something about w you need z and...
finding the point to unravel is difficult to impossible especially since people will interfere as they profit of how the system works now.
Unfortunately.
Dr Lee, thank you for your call and balanced comments.
Prof. Chin Hong, thanks for your sound opinions.
50 hours a week is reasonable. Beyond that you are starting to deal with cognitive fatigue!
As all decisions involve cognitive processing, it is negligence and irresponsible to make them work with live humans while tired
Science says even that is too much, but we can agree of it being more doable for the average healthy person. Unlike the madness they currently seem to deal with.
@@KxNOxUTA I absolutely agree! It should be way less!
Back during start of WWII, it was noticed that accidents increased and quality of product decreased when workers worked a lot of hours (millions of men went into the military and left the assembly line, leaving fewer men to do the work when the government wanted production to vastly increase!). Studies were done. Accident and productivity levels stayed level until 45 hours/week. Then, as hours per week increased, accidents started to rise and productivity started to fall. Slowly at first, but as the hours per week increased, the rate of each increased. Look it up!! This is when women started working in industry AND the military BIG TIME. Remember Rosie the Riveter? Of course, management doesn't want you to know this. ALL they are interested in is how much money goes in THEIR back pocket!! If you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself! You can maybe do OK at 50+ hours per week for short periods of time, but NOT month after month!! And EVERYONE needs time off! This is a known fact!!
Lol who would be a doctor if they're not well paid ? They really think medical school is cheap ?
question of which country you live in.
There is a trend towards predatory academia and continuous exploitation for longer periods and higher hours imposed on those seeking to become professionals in their fields of study. This trend is not exclusive to South Korea by any estimation and needs to be addressed through innovative solutions that respect rather than enslave.
The primary reason of protest this time is that government announced 2000 increase of Medical school intake. Korean born and raised in Korea, studying medicine.
Yes, after protesting 400 increase in 2020, and any increase for 20 years.
More doctors are needed abroad
But not like that.
They need to hire PAs to work in Korea to take the burden off the MDs and provide care in the countryside areas.
God knows what they have gone through from a young age to qualify as a doctor in Korea. The sacrifice of their childhoods and unimaginable efforts for years and years through uni only to be treated like shit by their ridiculous govt.
This is one of the reasons why I am self-employed! Stopped working for the "Man" back in 2016. I am not going to work for chump change. Living in NYC....one of the most expensive cities on the planet, and you wanna pay me minimum wage ?! GO TO HELL WITH THAT CRAP!
What is your business if you do not mind me asking
Which has nothing to do with the topic. But you could say it makes the problem worse as it means less general doctors.
YESSS, YOU DO YOU BOO!
That's such a smart idea. Force Doctors back to work by legal threats and actions cuz that's what a democratic gov't does. Forces people to work for them instead of coming to an agreement for more pay or training more people. Yes, let's financially cripple or throw them in prison to force their choice to work.
They do *not* want more people trained.
It means people that are lesser - worse grades, intelligence, worse tests, less sacrifice etc. - given the same status as them.
It lowers their status/sacrifice.
Rank is very important in SK.
I don’t really understand their opposition to the increase in medical students. Would having more graduates and hiring more not result in lower hours then??? Or do they just want higher wages?
Increasing the number of medical students do not equal more funding for residents/fully trained doctors. Therefore they can run into a situation where there are more medical students fighting for the same residency spots and later on fighting for permanent positions.
Doctors don’t work like regular jobs. It’s hard to make new “spots” or new “jobs” because those are created with government money. It’s expensive
@@anniezheng2525
That is part of it.
But this is more about pride,
Those trainees had the grades to get into medical school, passed countless tests, made countless sacrifices, worked their butt off and are an elite.
Now allowing a high amount of people into the system who are not as intelligent, did not make those sacrifices etc. devalues the work/sacrifice of the trainees that are already there.
See it as giving a gold medal to someone who has not earned it.
It's frustrating.
I asked the same question and the answer I got back was pure BS. They think it 'devalue' them. If the government outright said they are lowering standards, that would be one thing. But increasing quota could simply means that there are say 1000 people with the trait that can be a doctor, but the usual quota for a program is 100. So you have 900 people who may have met the standard that a doctor needs but there is no space because deliberate limitations.
Giving gold medal to someone who didn't earn it??! What nonsense! It's not a competition of one. More like people protesting a 10 lane race track become 11 or 12 because the runners want exclusivity.
They don't want to be overworked, underpaid, which is fine... protest that. But they don't want there to be more doctors, simply because they feel it cheapens the profession. It's completely unreasonable. Keeping the vocation pool just so you feel prestigious... that's BS. It's like a billionaire saying if you taxes them more, it's punishing success.
The medical profession in the US should do the same to show how also they are not fairly treated by insurance companies and too much paperwork’s limiting autonomy by insurance companies. Doctors are getting out of this difficult although rewarding.
Your press coverage is very important.
Government hard line kills people-
Adminstrative medicine is an added cost
Doctors are important and being pushed out of medicine.
I dont go to a medical office to see a government offical
I dont go to the medical center to see The CEO
I do to see a doctor!
Come to the USA and Canada - we are screaming out for good doctors here.
Many medical students and junior doctors in Korea are actually preparing for the USMLE, despite facing ridicule from the majority of the public who mock them, telling them to try anywhere else. Over 90% of the media, controlled by the government, churns out articles demonizing doctors on a daily basis, shaping public opinion to view them as a group of villains. In such an atmosphere of thorough isolation and deceleration, seeing such foreign news coverage feels like a blessing in the midst of a drought.
except there what they already have archieved is pretty much worthless and they have to prove themselves again for likely years.
This isn't about money but respect/pride.
Housing in Canada is very expansive and people are not able to sustain themselves because of how expansive Canada has become immigrants are coming back to their home countries because of that.. Canada is not a attractive destination it used to be..
Look up American Medical Association. They intentionally limit how many medical doctors available. It's all made to insure doctors get high salary. If you add too many doctors into the country, they paychecks will depreciate. It's NEVER been about helping people. It's always been $$$ first.
All medical professonials jobs are short elsewhere for hospitals and reference labs. My sis and older sis are both medical professionals. One is a doctor the other is a medical scientist specializing in immuno-hematology. The doctor one wanted to specialize in pedia but the senior doctors in the hospitals she tried to work in are crazy nuts. Abusing the newbies. Hells even the hospital owned by her in laws were abusin her. So she quit. The scientist one also quit because the seniors there abuse her in the workplace. Even though she has more experience, skills and knowledge. A lot of health professionals end up switching careers because of this ridiculous amount of stress, abuse and lack of pay.
👏👏👏✊️💯🎉 Drs!
They do so much. Work so hard to get into their profession and the government treats them like that? I would walk out too.
Good for them!
I hope they manage to keep it up.
They are vital employees, they should earn more than bankers, since they are definitely more useful.
Overwhelmed, but don't want increase in new doctors. Also opposed any increase in quota for last 20 years.
that's called tyranny, and it's generally frowned upon.
South Korea is very rich country but thier cost of living is also very expensive that's why Korean people don't want to be married and have many child because they need to work hard to have comfortable life
What's legal ? Is their rights.
rights that lead to destruction of the health system.
If you need a doctor and there is none how happy would you be? wouldn't you call people refusing to help selfish?
That is YOUR life on the line.
It's not that simple with such a high number.
@@ruthfischer7615 so the solution is... Make doctors into slaves? You're delusional.
It might be time to change the government
bureaucrats who thought that they can be bullies.
How can someone be forced to be a doctor?
지금까지 대한민국은 가장 우수한 국민보건의료 시스템을 유지했지만, 정작 혜택받는 국민들은 그럴 만한 자격이 없는 것 같습니다…. 혜택이 계속 되면, 권리인 줄 착각하지요…ㅠㅠ 이제 곧 종료합니다… 생애 처음 보는 의료 지옥이 펼쳐집니다…ㅠㅠ
Malignant corporate greed driving human societies to utter despair. It appears greed has absolutely no limits.
Healthcare in korea is administered by the government though…
My heart is with all of these doctors and patients. ❤
This was very informative and interesting to watch! It really is a gobal pandemic - over working junior doctors. Though sad, it is also comforting to know that we are not alone in the struggle. The carribbean is also facing this. In my country we have a Junior medical doctors asssociation (JMDA) that often times has to be working tirelessly to fight on our behalf against some of the goverments wild ideas. Sorry to hear that the doctors are facing this, and i do hope rather than this harsh and rash approach of "work or else" taken by the goverment, that a mediator really is found so that some kind of reasonable agreement can be made by both parties involved. Wishing the doctors all the best. Working for that medical degree was hard and they earned it, no one, including the government should be allowed to now bully them in the career they worked so hard to achieve. At the end of the day professionals have lives to live, and they deserve to live it well while being mentally stable and feeling respected.
I’m confused. You feel overworked and underpaid, but then protest when they attempt to increase the amount of medical students into medical programs? If your country is in need of doctors wouldn’t this be the ideal direction for a path forward?
It's complicated. The primary political idea is to not have to raise salaries, because if there's enough doctors they will be expendable again and will have no protest power. Also, these new students will have to be educated in a system that is not funded to handle them all. It's a lose-lose for the doctors. Right now is the time to put pressure on the government. If salaries rose, they wouldn't oppose the student increase for future better conditions.
@@xfranczeskaxdoes that explain the last 20 years of protesting against any increase in medical student quota?
No they want to increase the amount of underpaid doctors
@bluerationality I'd say so. Salaries did not rise much, but living and education expenses rocket. Doctors are notoriously overworked but are expected to tutor an increasing number of students, causing even more stress. Also, these students more and more leave the critical fields for plastic surgery and don't cover the understaffed countryside. Many old doctors are bled dry only to see the new generation leave for greener pastures. Not to blame the young ones for getting their money's worth. The fact that things boil over now does not mean the systemic problem isn't decades old.
@@xfranczeskax so are we talking about old or new doctors here? I agree there need to be separate incentives to get doctors to go to less desirable areas, but the fact that you imply 20 years of stagnant quota had no role in new doctors being overworked and the system undersupplied is absurd. Any targeted solution has to come hand in hand with a supply increase.
Do you even know how much the average pay of these critical fields rose? What is your magic bullet without a quota increase?
This is a good thing. now there could be more importing of foreign doctors. This will bring diversity and genetic mixing of society.
There are ways hospitals get around the 80-hour work week.
As they should if they are underpaid! Anybody should if they are underpaid. PERIOD
Golly the benefits socialized medicine. Heartwarming ❤
My current doctor is a GP and he also trains doctors during their student mandatory GP stint, and he bitterly points out that today's interns no longer study for GP certification because the money is in specialization. "They're not dumb enough to go into general practice anymore." This is in the USA.
2:06 hearing the problems caused, but no dealing with their complaints? What a blind old man. He isn’t explaining anything.
Restrictions of 80 hours per week 😂😂😂
I wish we had reporters and news like this in the us. nice
These doctors are playing by their rules. Suing them for quitting? Well, I guess they can totally pay them better to get them back as soon as possible if they are so worried.
It's not about pay for once.
Which doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid more.
It is about devalueing the trainee doctors hard work and sacrifice.
Not all reason for a medical visit requires a physician. Just like the San Francisco doctor said , in the US APP such as PA's or NP's have been trained to treat patients all under a physician's purview.
The government forcing people to practice medicine or be penalized. I’m sure this brilliant idea from the finest minds at the South Korean government isn’t going to backfire at all. /s
Prayers for fair treatment for the doctors and trainees.
Eighty hours per week is only ten hours a day eight days per week.
😂😂😂
Power through unity! It gives me goosebumps thinking how powerful it is for such a large number of personel to act as one. Wonderful, people around the world should learn from this!
You don't "deal with" collective action, you yield to it.
🧑⚕️: we're resigning
🧑⚖️: we're revoking your license
🧑⚕️: we're RESIGNING. License is irrelevant for us.. 😅
That's really underpaid. I checked and even working in factories as a newbie would only be a little lower than that. $1500-3000 for a doc? Insane.
happening too frequent everywhere
Pray for all those affected !!!
I am proud of those doctors for showing solidarity and not accepting corporate bs.
What a mess
This wicked system will end.
Oh yeah. Go to work or you'll be even more poor and/or go to jail where I still won't comply. Love that solution 👌
That’s crazy, I wonder how they will solve this
Who ever came up with this action needs to step down.
doctors should be paid competently and given at most 60 hours!
Did they "walk out" or did they quit? There is a difference. There is nothing wrong with quitting your job when you're being treated like shit. You can't revoke someone's license if they give notice and quit. If they really are walking out out of the blue, then that is irresponsible.
It is said they handed "resignation", so not walk out. So government giving ultimatums to re oke their licences is actually illeagal
@@AlexaOleksa
It's probably a mixture of both.
But this is also people organizing themselves to do this at once.
This is a critical danger to the health system.
Legal of the government? Perhaps not.
But this is about misscommunications and pride/status.
You need me I don’t need you😂😂
Lousy report. Why are the doctors walking out?
the trainees are walking out because they feel undervalued by the government plan to just let a high mass of people that are less qualified into the medical system.
It's like giving a gold medal to second place (or even lesser), too.
It's loss in status and pride.
It's actually pretty early in this news segment even if it is not quiet explained because they assume people understand it.