Read an article where they did extensive testing on these heads, using different porting techniques. They found that removing the bump on the floor of the intake runner hurt the flow numbers. They did see a little improvement cleaning it up a bit though but advised against totally removing it.
Intake ports flow alot better with the bigger valves, really not much room for improvement unless your bumping the cam lift after .42" 4 angle valve job will help. Exhaust port roofs raised and spark plug wall bumps removed will help substantially. 190 whp, 220 wtq is what you should see with a 3.4 and Holley 390 with good airflow and Edelbrock intake manifold
I would definitely be interested in the flow numbers with that hump out of the way. I have a 2.8 with a super charger and the machine shop guy said that hump needed to go away. I will keep watching and waiting sir!!👍
Yes, yes, yes. Remove the horn in from the intake and let's see what happens. But i know it is there to direct air around the valve stem. But on a boosted engine i don't think it will hurt to move it. Also, what would happen if you epoxied a hump in the aluminum performance heads on the intake ports?
Good question on the aluminum head with a hump. My dad made some plates for the intake ports of his old edelbrock heads that directed the air to the roof of the port. I believe it was good for an extra 10cfm!
FYI these heads with the iron block and long tube hot rod headers and 4 barrel carb with 162 rockers a cam close to 500 lift Dyno at 270hp back in the 80s but gm neutered the engine when it hit the production line. NA engine 270hp I have a article about the 60degree v6s 2.8 and 3.1 v6 . My 2.8 in my firebird hit almost 170hp around 210 tq I wish I would have had the 3.4 short block when I rebuilt it in 2002 there were not many firebird Camaro 3.4s in the junkyards since they were only out 6 or 7 yrs. I had hooker supercompetion long tube heads jet hit coated. I know for a fact those gave me 10hp up to 5k the engine really could breath with those. I got 30.5mpg gas mileage also..had a cam and injectors rockers ect the whole works for 35hp gain but I got about 5mpg increase and about 50 torque night and day difference over the stock 2.8 and it chirped the tires in 1st and 2 b&m shift kit 700r4 trans with OD. The lz9 is the way to go know 280hp with just tuning on 93 octane
I'll take a 3.1 iron head all day long. I do demo derby and these things love heat, she runs her best around 235 and they will run until they lock up or blow up. The aluminum heads can't handle it
The way to get power out ofthese is long tube headers no cat and straight pipes guarantee 15-20 hp just with that mill the head yo bump the compression.. i couldn't believe how strong a 2.8 is woth hookes supercompetion long tubejet hot coated hraders and ran back with straight pipes oñ a 3rd gen firebird.. on the 2.8 intake i milled out 6 2 inch tall aluminum that mayched. For my uim and lim made my runners a little longer.. when they were hot roding these engines they ran 11.5 or 12 1 compression and long tube headers v8 Crane roleer rockers they Dyno a 2.8 with12 1 comp and all other good stuff 270hp yeah thats running on 108 race gas bit it can be done they need to breathe
Cool, I once had a 3.4 Firebird, one of my favorite cars I have had, wish I had one with a V8. I always thought the bumps in the intake runners was for the injector to "hit" the bump. I find it strange why they did not put the 4.3 in the F-Bodys instead, then they could have shared transmissions, subframes and what not. And you could get a frontwheel drive Chevy with a "high Performance" V6, why not just put that also in the F-Body, I guess the DOHC engine maybe would not fit though, but they seemed to have so many different engine possibilites, and they put not exactly their greatest achievement in the F-Body. It is like the F-Body was supposed to be underpowered, without an V8. I put a different camshaft, 1,6 Roller Rockers, and headers on mine, I am not sure it was any faster. It should have been ported, more compression and got a tunable EFI system. I looked for an 3400 engine, for the top end.
Yeah I think they do that for a reason. They want you to have a way faster car than just a little faster with the v8 😆 just think if they used a 3400 instead of the 3.4 or 3.8.. a couple bolt ons and your as fast or faster than a stock 5.7l
Can u put the steal heads on a 3400 block I’ve got the steel heads with carb intake with distributor would like to transfer that stuff to a 3400 for the full roller bottom end
Yes, but you will have to use 3.4 RWD pistons to keep your compression up. You will need an electric fuel pump if going carb since the 3400 dosen't have any provision for a mechanical pump.
@@modeverything1thank you I’ve herd of guys doing it but couldn’t find out how or what all I needed and by any chance do you know if they make a hei distributor for these .Ive got a 2.8 right now but I’m thinking either swap the heads or find someone to build my 2.8 cause I can’t seem to find performance parts for the 2.8
Do you know of a way to Mod the RWD iron 2.8/ 3.4 block to use the roller cam from the 3400? The valley is obviously missing the threaded bosses for the lifter retainers. I'm looking into building a 3.4L/3400 hybrid for an S-10. Thanks. I enjoy your vids.
I think it would probably be easier to make the full 3400 work vs. converting the 3.4 to a roller engine. You would have to modify the 3400 oil pan a little or notch the k frame slightly to clear the oil pan. Then you would need to swap your rwd front cover / accessories over and modify one engine mount, along with a couple other small things. I think if you were going to use a roller cam you would have to get the lifters with the tie bars joining each pair together. I don't think you would be loosing much power with a flat tappet vs the roller, especially if you use a performance aftermarket cam!
A pair of your fellow Canadians at DOT Motorsports eventually put an LZ9 in a 2nd gen race truck. Video at 2:15 - 2:25 shows GIANT bite they took out of cross member! ruclips.net/video/wpuetAfUBqk/видео.html Too scary for me. They won races though! Maybe a shallower custom steel pan out of 3/16" plate would keep the block stiffness and gain clearance? Flat tappet sure be easier. I have found no one selling roller cams for the RWD 60 blocks. Maybe the aluminum head swap provides more clearance for the lifter tie bars? @@modeverything1
Yes I have known one of the guys for 20 years now lol. Mars also has a TT LZ4 in an s10 with a manual transmission. Almost every one that does a vortec 4200 (GM straight 6) swap has to modify the oil pan to clear the chassis. Steel pan might work but it might be a little complicated to tie in the main caps to the oil pan like the factory did. I would start with a new oil pan and have a custom sump made for it so it fits the chassis as needed and maintains the same oil capacity (or more) I know guys have run solid rollers in iron head engines before, but I never really paid attention to where they got them. You could probably have a manufacturer make some, but it probably wouldn't be cheap lol
If I remember correct you can use the 3400 frontwheel drive V6 top end, but you need to use the intake manifold too I think, atleast if you are gonne use stock stuff. I had a 3.4 Firebird many years ago, and I wanted to try it, but there is non of those 3400 cars/engines around here.
You can use the FWD 2.8/3.1, 3100 or 3400 heads, but the matching intakes will need to be used. You would also need to convert to the distributor less ignition system since the distributor won't clear the FWD intake manifolds. There are a few more things that would need to be done as well.
If your looking for the most power you would want heads and intakes from a 3100 or 3400. You would also have a few other things to change like switching to a distributor less ignition system, camshaft, pistons (if not wanting a high compression ratio ) there is a good write up on the hybrid swap on thirdgen.org in the v6 section
Did you do your flow testing at 28inHg? I did a little looking and that works out to about 200 Hp with 142 Cfm. Did you go beyond .600 lift? I plan to run a .422 cam with 1.6 rockers so close to .650 lift.
Yeah I don't think I would go too crazy with the lift unless your planning on aluminum heads down the road or dumping a pile of money into the iron heads. What is your HP goal with the engine?
@@modeverything1 I'd like to see over 200. I am sticking with the iron heads for now because I have an offenhauser 4bbl intake and pace setter long tube headers that came on the 2.8 that was in the truck when I bought it. Going 3.4 because it's a direct fit and because it's not what you see every day. Short bed single cab 82 S10 with fiberglass front end and fiberglass bedsides, no bed floor. Track is widened 6" and dropped 6" and 8". 3 link rear and all G body stock car stuff in the front suspension. Top of the unchopped roof is at my armpit :-).
Read an article where they did extensive testing on these heads, using different porting techniques. They found that removing the bump on the floor of the intake runner hurt the flow numbers. They did see a little improvement cleaning it up a bit though but advised against totally removing it.
Intake ports flow alot better with the bigger valves, really not much room for improvement unless your bumping the cam lift after .42"
4 angle valve job will help. Exhaust port roofs raised and spark plug wall bumps removed will help substantially. 190 whp, 220 wtq is what you should see with a 3.4 and Holley 390 with good airflow and Edelbrock intake manifold
I would definitely be interested in the flow numbers with that hump out of the way. I have a 2.8 with a super charger and the machine shop guy said that hump needed to go away. I will keep watching and waiting sir!!👍
Great video! I definitely want to see what happens when that vein is gone!
It should be interesting!
Yes, yes, yes. Remove the horn in from the intake and let's see what happens. But i know it is there to direct air around the valve stem. But on a boosted engine i don't think it will hurt to move it. Also, what would happen if you epoxied a hump in the aluminum performance heads on the intake ports?
Good question on the aluminum head with a hump. My dad made some plates for the intake ports of his old edelbrock heads that directed the air to the roof of the port. I believe it was good for an extra 10cfm!
@@modeverything1 ok, sounds like a plan, let's do the hump on the aluminum head and see what happens.
It would come off and go down into the engine. Common sense guys..don't believe me go do it. Jb Kwik and of the hi tech epoxy won't work either..
FYI these heads with the iron block and long tube hot rod headers and 4 barrel carb with 162 rockers a cam close to 500 lift Dyno at 270hp back in the 80s but gm neutered the engine when it hit the production line. NA engine 270hp I have a article about the 60degree v6s 2.8 and 3.1 v6 . My 2.8 in my firebird hit almost 170hp around 210 tq I wish I would have had the 3.4 short block when I rebuilt it in 2002 there were not many firebird Camaro 3.4s in the junkyards since they were only out 6 or 7 yrs. I had hooker supercompetion long tube heads jet hit coated. I know for a fact those gave me 10hp up to 5k the engine really could breath with those. I got 30.5mpg gas mileage also..had a cam and injectors rockers ect the whole works for 35hp gain but I got about 5mpg increase and about 50 torque night and day difference over the stock 2.8 and it chirped the tires in 1st and 2 b&m shift kit 700r4 trans with OD. The lz9 is the way to go know 280hp with just tuning on 93 octane
I'll take a 3.1 iron head all day long. I do demo derby and these things love heat, she runs her best around 235 and they will run until they lock up or blow up. The aluminum heads can't handle it
Love the flow numbers!! No matter how sad…😁
I would like to flow the H.O. version one day and see what the bigger valves are worth!
The way to get power out ofthese is long tube headers no cat and straight pipes guarantee 15-20 hp just with that mill the head yo bump the compression.. i couldn't believe how strong a 2.8 is woth hookes supercompetion long tubejet hot coated hraders and ran back with straight pipes oñ a 3rd gen firebird.. on the 2.8 intake i milled out 6 2 inch tall aluminum that mayched. For my uim and lim made my runners a little longer.. when they were hot roding these engines they ran 11.5 or 12 1 compression and long tube headers v8 Crane roleer rockers they Dyno a 2.8 with12 1 comp and all other good stuff 270hp yeah thats running on 108 race gas bit it can be done they need to breathe
Cool, I once had a 3.4 Firebird, one of my favorite cars I have had, wish I had one with a V8. I always thought the bumps in the intake runners was for the injector to "hit" the bump. I find it strange why they did not put the 4.3 in the F-Bodys instead, then they could have shared transmissions, subframes and what not. And you could get a frontwheel drive Chevy with a "high Performance" V6, why not just put that also in the F-Body, I guess the DOHC engine maybe would not fit though, but they seemed to have so many different engine possibilites, and they put not exactly their greatest achievement in the F-Body.
It is like the F-Body was supposed to be underpowered, without an V8.
I put a different camshaft, 1,6 Roller Rockers, and headers on mine, I am not sure it was any faster. It should have been ported, more compression and got a tunable EFI system. I looked for an 3400 engine, for the top end.
Yeah I think they do that for a reason. They want you to have a way faster car than just a little faster with the v8 😆 just think if they used a 3400 instead of the 3.4 or 3.8.. a couple bolt ons and your as fast or faster than a stock 5.7l
Can u put the steal heads on a 3400 block I’ve got the steel heads with carb intake with distributor would like to transfer that stuff to a 3400 for the full roller bottom end
Yes, but you will have to use 3.4 RWD pistons to keep your compression up. You will need an electric fuel pump if going carb since the 3400 dosen't have any provision for a mechanical pump.
@@modeverything1thank you I’ve herd of guys doing it but couldn’t find out how or what all I needed and by any chance do you know if they make a hei distributor for these .Ive got a 2.8 right now but I’m thinking either swap the heads or find someone to build my 2.8 cause I can’t seem to find performance parts for the 2.8
Do you know of a way to Mod the RWD iron 2.8/ 3.4 block to use the roller cam from the 3400? The valley is obviously missing the threaded bosses for the lifter retainers. I'm looking into building a 3.4L/3400 hybrid for an S-10. Thanks. I enjoy your vids.
I think it would probably be easier to make the full 3400 work vs. converting the 3.4 to a roller engine. You would have to modify the 3400 oil pan a little or notch the k frame slightly to clear the oil pan. Then you would need to swap your rwd front cover / accessories over and modify one engine mount, along with a couple other small things.
I think if you were going to use a roller cam you would have to get the lifters with the tie bars joining each pair together. I don't think you would be loosing much power with a flat tappet vs the roller, especially if you use a performance aftermarket cam!
A pair of your fellow Canadians at DOT Motorsports eventually put an LZ9 in a 2nd gen race truck. Video at 2:15 - 2:25 shows GIANT bite they took out of cross member! ruclips.net/video/wpuetAfUBqk/видео.html Too scary for me. They won races though! Maybe a shallower custom steel pan out of 3/16" plate would keep the block stiffness and gain clearance? Flat tappet sure be easier. I have found no one selling roller cams for the RWD 60 blocks. Maybe the aluminum head swap provides more clearance for the lifter tie bars? @@modeverything1
Yes I have known one of the guys for 20 years now lol. Mars also has a TT LZ4 in an s10 with a manual transmission.
Almost every one that does a vortec 4200 (GM straight 6) swap has to modify the oil pan to clear the chassis. Steel pan might work but it might be a little complicated to tie in the main caps to the oil pan like the factory did.
I would start with a new oil pan and have a custom sump made for it so it fits the chassis as needed and maintains the same oil capacity (or more)
I know guys have run solid rollers in iron head engines before, but I never really paid attention to where they got them. You could probably have a manufacturer make some, but it probably wouldn't be cheap lol
So what aluminum heads can be used on iron head reaer wheel drive 2.8?
If I remember correct you can use the 3400 frontwheel drive V6 top end, but you need to use the intake manifold too I think, atleast if you are gonne use stock stuff. I had a 3.4 Firebird many years ago, and I wanted to try it, but there is non of those 3400 cars/engines around here.
I guess you could use 3.1 head on the 2.8? I am not sure, I would think the Channel owner gives you the correct answer soon.
You can use the FWD 2.8/3.1, 3100 or 3400 heads, but the matching intakes will need to be used. You would also need to convert to the distributor less ignition system since the distributor won't clear the FWD intake manifolds. There are a few more things that would need to be done as well.
I have an 88 fiero 2.8 I see there's aluminum heads online for the Chevy 2.8 are those compatible with my engine?
If your looking for the most power you would want heads and intakes from a 3100 or 3400. You would also have a few other things to change like switching to a distributor less ignition system, camshaft, pistons (if not wanting a high compression ratio ) there is a good write up on the hybrid swap on thirdgen.org in the v6 section
I know its apples to oranges, id be curious to know just how much better a LZ4/LZ9 head flows compared to these.
I am going to try to do some flow testing on the LZ stuff over the winter. The 3400/3500 flow much better than the iron heads.
Did you do your flow testing at 28inHg? I did a little looking and that works out to about 200 Hp with 142 Cfm. Did you go beyond .600 lift? I plan to run a .422 cam with 1.6 rockers so close to .650 lift.
Yes I test at 28in, no I stopped at .600 since they were not really picking up anymore.
Maybe stick with 1.5 rockers then.
Yeah I don't think I would go too crazy with the lift unless your planning on aluminum heads down the road or dumping a pile of money into the iron heads. What is your HP goal with the engine?
@@modeverything1 I'd like to see over 200. I am sticking with the iron heads for now because I have an offenhauser 4bbl intake and pace setter long tube headers that came on the 2.8 that was in the truck when I bought it. Going 3.4 because it's a direct fit and because it's not what you see every day. Short bed single cab 82 S10 with fiberglass front end and fiberglass bedsides, no bed floor. Track is widened 6" and dropped 6" and 8". 3 link rear and all G body stock car stuff in the front suspension. Top of the unchopped roof is at my armpit :-).
Any updates
Should be back on the flow bench in the next week or two!
@@modeverything1 have you try bigger valves
No I have not tried larger valves on these heads. I would like to get my hands on the newer heads with the bigger valves for some testing!
We need someone to make a 4 barrel intake to work with the aluminum heads that why people still use iron heads.
@@georgebulson2646 yes you are right that's my reason to use them on my S10 3.4 swap