The old 993s were about the best of the open chamber sbc heads. John Lingenfelter flow tested a bunch of production heads back in the 80s and came to that conclusion. He ported and milled them & used them on 383 builds. He was a pretty sharp dude. That was back before the hundreds of sbc head choices we have now.
@@lollipop84858 I'm saying the fuckin 993s were allegedly some of the best open chamber stock heads, but all I would use stock iron heads for would be a wheel chock, or a boat anchor.
The heads you are referring too are the 993 Hecho in Mexico heads that John was using NOT the 993 smog heads ! I have a set of 993 Hecho in Mexico heads on my bench being ported and actually from stock they have awesome features for a STOCK head !
Back in the early 90's my first sbc build had cast iron #461 heads and they were factory 23° 2.02 int 1.6 exh and I had screw in studs done 665 int 675 exh and the 383 sbc they were on with a 175 shot was a fun little street deal back then when I first started. Then in 2000 I bought my first aluminum heads with 2.12 int 1.6 exh shaft rockers, port matched super Victor Jr. Intake had a 250 shot and then went to a blower. Man bring back memories. Great video
Hey Eric, Tim here, i aint a sbc guy, but this vid, shows valid difrences, and i just thought this was a KILLER tech vid........TY sir for all ur time and effort.......PEACE to you sir!!!
The rotator was for unleaded fuel compatibility. I know because I read everything in those days. My first new car was a 1972 Chevy Nova, 350, 3 on the floor. $2850 out the door. It had those 882 heads, which I still have somewhere. They got replaced with a pair of 1970 400 heads which had the closed chamber, and a larger 1.6 exhaust valve to go with the 1.94 intakes. The 3863151 350hp 327 cam, $38 at my Chevy dealer, really woke that engine up.
I built a 350 for my Camaro back in 2020. I used 041 heads off of a 400 but they only had 1.50 exhaust valves. They were 71 castings I believe. An old machinist told me about the 70 heads with the 1.6 exhaust but I never have actually seen any. Cool to hear about an actual build with these heads! The engine in the Camaro ran great but honestly, in the current day and age, by the time I bought the heads, had new guides, seats, valves, ect. it would have been cheaper to get a new set of Vortec heads. But it was a cool old school build, probably something similar to what guys were doing back in the 70's and 80's to wake up their smog motors.
The "Cheater" screw in studs are (the ones we use) Pioneer RM-348, they don't have the hex, simply pull the pressed in studs, tap for 7/16-14, was a cinch on the SERDI, double nut and screw them in with a dab of LocTite.
Thank you for your enlightening videos and spending your time to contribute to the community of those interested in learning about cylinder head improvement.
Brings back good memories, mostly, of building “purestock” engines:) 882’s we’re everywhere and as a kid I definitely got into grinding them with my Dremel and shopvac dust control in my parent’s basement. Stud pinning was the the pretty common affair with the occasional use of ‘cheater’ studs that threaded in but didn’t have a nut shoulder so you had to double nut them to tighten down. Sometimes I was lucky enough to work on “camel humps” for the Street stock guys! When I worked in the shop we used liners to bring back guides. The process had a bunch of steps but went really quick with the right tools. Something like: bore guide, press in liner, cut length, broach and finally ream to size. Then put the pilot in and grind the seats. Grind and Reface valves on the Sioux City. Probably about 30mins a head then off to the Jetspray washer before spring height check/shim and assembly.
@@jasonnielsen2125 ok. The facts are there. Nobody drove street cars with 1700 hp on the streets. Parts weren't as easy and readily available. Everybody in town didn't have a CNC machine in the garage to make whatever they want. The old POS 406 that got hot and made 600hp just isn't as cool anymore. Legends, just like Abe Lincoln.
Great data on the OEM low compression heads. If you must run factory cast iron heads, the best are the Vortec heads, if rules allow. The number is 062, but don't throw a 906 head away, they are very similar.
Thank you for this, I'm getting ready to build an IMCA Sport mod, this is very informative. There is also a Dart head that's approved for IMCA Sport mod.
Great information! It would be interesting to see what the 60 grit polish does for the stock heads. Any chance you might do a video on the 801, 416, and 601 castings?
I've had good results from porting 487's. They will port out to a Felpro 1205 and with bowl work, 2.02's and 1.60's with minor chamber smoothing, they make good street heads with 85 octane gas. 882's make good heads as well with limited porting but they are thinner and will crack if you run lean or overheat the engine.
Thanks for the info on these heads been wondering how they flow for some time, your work is helpful for us low budget guys. Putting a 218 224 comp cam on 400 with 9.7 compression, trying for good torque. Thanks again
Those 487X heads were supposed to be good open chamber sbc heads. I had some 041X and 461X closed chamber heads back in the day, both had bigger runners than the versions without the X.
Makes me miss my 400 I built 8 years ago, stock 2 bolt 400 out of the local pick and pull a comp tow cam z28 valve springs and 882 heads slightly ported with 1.62/2.02 valves 1.6 rockers, flat top pistons, aluminum Camaro intake manifold with a q-jet through stock manifolds it passed ca smog in a 78 c10 350, it was definitely chocked up past 5500rpm but made tons of torque with a 2500 stall 4.56 gears and 31in tires, it would burn the tires until you let off
Thanks, Eric. You saved me from wasting time on a planned head swap. I was just getting ready today to swap a pair of 487s to some Speedmaster/Pro Comps. The cam is only 480 lift. So, as you stated, there is no gain. Also, the engine the Speedmaster heads were on are now getting some Brodix T1 heads, thanks to your videos. Your videos are very helpful. Keep up the good work.
I really enjoy your videos.. I own a shop and do a lot of engine work like porting.. my best friend owns a machine shop. I'm there every day playing with his machines ..lol What I'm saying is if your views would pay attention to your videos, they could learn a lot.. even I learned from your videos. Thank you, sir..
487X are commonly foundon 71 and 72 LT-1 Corvettes and Z28 Camaros, they will have guide plates and screw in studs with 2.02/1.60 valves and the combustion chamber relief cut for the 2.02. The 996 heads could be found on the 73 and later L-82 High Performance motors with the same valves and screw in studs/guide plates.
Great video. Those 882s are almost in Camel Hump head territory (recalling your recent video on the 461 heads) Cant wait for the dyno competition between these heads
When looking at a small or big chevy heads, it looks like the "closed chamber" heads have a quench pad on both sides of the chamber and "open chamber" heads do not have quench pads on the spark plug side. We used to refer to Pontiac heads as either "Large" or "Small" chambers and we have a 1974 SHP Z28 350 that has 882 heads with screw in studs, guide plates and 2.02/1.6 valves. Keep rolling......
882 I'd rather start with the 1.84 do the 194 valve job myself, tulip should work Looks like biq quench pad so why characterize as open chamber I call them wedge heads pinned studs- those were the days, oil 441 I used the spiral grooved k lines and also to convert to 5/16 I Sunnen od hone the valves 487 best to mill that ex corrosion rather than Devcon X would be nice to see with good valve jobs EQ were great all their parts How about a video on chamber designs, an overlooked place for improvement I asked about the B1 when you said there was room for improvement ( or something like that) cheers
The myth of the 2.02/1.60 stock 882 heads is true. I had a pair that came off a 77 Corvette L-82, open chamber 882s with factory screw in studs & guide plates with 2.021.60 valves. They do exist, but ive only seen 2 pair in my 40yrs of messing with this shit.
The swirl port heads? I have seen numbers as low as 165/116. They are junk. The chamber is pretty good but other than that there is almost no legitimate use for them.
Thank you Erik for the efforts to compare these GM factory heads! It was very interesting comparison, esp the 487, 487x and the chinese aluminum ones! I've currently the 487s in my '71's sbc, most likely with stock factory cam. Would you recommend upgrading the rocker ratio to 1,6 or rather swapping the cam to bring the better out of the old sbc? I wonder could you ever possibly flow and review the GM's 113s (aluminum) as they are also recommended a basic upgrade on stock sbc? Thank you very much for today's video!
I like watching your videos and your knowledge my question is why don't you make DVDs and templates for someone who wants to learn how to do their own head porting like on the vortecs or the older double jumps or the best big block factory heads like the 781s or 049 you could also make money I'm sure their are alot of people that would buy them I know I would keep up the good work sir I love how you go into details on what to do or what not to do
Great video. Have you done a video on the 416 heads that so many folks say are junk boat anchors. And that if you put them on a 350 it will be lucky to turn up past 4500 rpms.
That X head was probably from a Corvette. They had X blocks too. Also the LS has identification bumps along the valve cover perimeter on exhaust side. 243 has different bumps from 317 and on .
I helped a friend with a sprint car in the 1980's. At first he was using iron heads and the car ran HOT no matter what we did. When he put on the first set of Brodix aluminum heads the water temp issues went away forever. He never went back to iron heads again. Do you think in an average street strip application an aluminum head on average could run more spark advance and get more HP due to less hot spots in the combustion chamber ?? of course here we are discussing open chamber which typically means low compression.
I think the people that say they are not open chamber should think of these heads as large chamber. They are probably 76cc chambers where the small chamber sbc heads of the 60's and early 70's would have been 64 cc. Those small chamber 64cc heads will give astronomical compression and they show up in the high horsepower factory small blocks that required high octane fuel.
I have 993 heads they say there like 441 but flow alittle better. I ported them a few years ago before I found your channel. I was on subs aand fish so I used water flow knowledge to port them. some day I would like to send them to you and check them out.
Interesting stuff,how does stock Chevy heads flow compared to other car makers stock heads? What does Ford & Mopar got to beat the Chevy guys? That would be quite interesting to see also,and IF You would do that throw in a AMC stock head also,I've heard the AMC ****502-* heads from 1974 should be a pretty good flowing head "for what it is..."
The as cast differences react better to cam upgrades, by a small amount. But if that's what you have to run, a small improvement is a good improvement, lol. Most tracks that mandate these type heads won't allow any porting or gasket matching, the most you can do is to machine cut them with the bowl hogs.
@@chrishensley6745 screw in studs and guide plates. We would put it all in double hump castings and change the cam and intake and those engines would run pretty good.
Eric, I’m curious, what is your attitude toward doing work on truly awful heads? I’m not speaking about ones which others have ruined, but those that came bad from the factory and remain untouched, and where the rules pretty much only limit bore size.
Have you ever done Canfield 220 65 cc chamber heads? I have them on my 406 sbc I think they work great but I’ve had them a long time Your thoughts?? Should I upgrade to new heads I bracket race
the procomp head struggles below .300 lift BUT we make better valve cuts to achieve better low lift numbers on these heads! on both the seat and back cut on valve. Besides, this is 2024 and no one runs .400 lift cam! not a single customer has ever requested such a low lift cam, other than old magazine builders that don't know any different or some budget roundy round class racer. Most every cam and head combo i do for customers starts off with .400 lobe, HYD roller. Bang for the buck you cant beat the ChInEeS hEaDs. Yeah they need some attention to be better, guids & valve job but what head doesn't?? (dont say dart, brodix, RHS that cost 2x the price)
Having had a little to do with these gunkers, and Chev heads in general the cut below the intake is factory. AFAIK all at least earlier GM heads had a similar cut. Depending on the casting depends how much. I can remember scrapping these heads as they had no value. These days however they do,, more so with part number junkies on restored cars Fuellies too were done like that. Factory retainers and collets IF in good order will be ok on a Fuellie with low 500 lift. Oil shields fall off on std engines, that I have seen on Chevs and Holden 6 and V8. Any more lift go good aftermarket. Not ProComp,, I saw one of those retainers broken as the collets tried to pull through. Rotators on any remotely performance engine wil fail and cause dropped valves. Not just GM used them on smog engines, a patch to try and make the engines live to outside warranty. Use 5000rpm regularly and they will cause an issue. Those D shape chambers are useless, and they get detonation on standard engines.
I just got some amazon sbc heads and after watching your videos im questioning if theyre worth it. The bowl arond the seat is bigger than the seat and the bowl cut just scratches the casting slag. So i dont think they will flow good even if i cleaned them up. Also they are afr copys so the guides seem thin since they are bored to 11/32. I dont know if thats good or not.
@@billcat1840 and cleaning it up with a sanding roll would only make it bigger. How would you make it smaller? Im probably just gunna send them back. The combustion chamber is actually nice. No lips or shrouding at all and smooth casting. The runners look like doo doo though.
@@____MC____ think I would send them back too. Too much work to make them flow right. Sounds like an amateur selling ported heads...just hogging them out is a beginner mistake...I made this mistake myself years ago and had a turd of an engine
The small valve 882 heads had 1.5 exhaust and a 1.72 intake. The 1.84 intake valve was a 305 thing. The early 305 used the 1.72. The later 305 heads had 58 cc chambers and with .480 lift cam would really wake up a dish piston 350 for not much money. A flat top piston 350 would break the ring lands out of the pistons in short order with the 305 head.
Need a Biiiiiiiiiiiig cam and cubes to get those bad boys flowing, had a 500 thou and 109 cam in a 355 and it was a shot pig……. Put a set of fuellies on it and the thing would turn tyres alllllllllllllllll day. 👍👌
Ok, forgive my ignorance. I've had this discussion about ford heads before & it's was confusing to me that their was confusion about ,to me, what was obvious! And I see the same here, in the chevy circle. What is your definition of a "open chamber" head? Becouse I see the title, "open chamber" tests!!! And yet I see a thumbnail of a pic of 4 closed chamber heads? Why? How? What is your definition? Ford heads we say open if it's "open"!! No quench pad or a quench pad not on a level with the deck!
The closed chamber heads on a sbc are around 64cc or so, all 4 of the heads in this video were open chamber, 76cc. Notice the spark plug bung in these heads, how it protrudes into the chamber, the closed chambr heads will have a recessed bung for the spark plug.
@@jesseduke694 The reason the differences in the spark plug bungs are that the chambers are smaller, hence 64cc volume, vs 76cc volume. The way GM made the quench area for their closed chamber heads, made the spark plug bungs appear either exposed completely, or it appeared to in a recess in the chamber. That's why I suggested you LOOK at the chambers. You can mill any head, but the more you mill it the more it affects other component fitment, and clearances. You run into valve to piston clearances, rocker arm and pushrod geometry and length differences, intake mounting differences, and so on. By the time you do all that, you can have a set of good closed chamber heads for it cheaper and have better performance. take a stab at googling the questions you're asking here, there is a lot out there about this.
There probably isn't 10 horsepower between all of this heads including the 882 that everyone says is junk. They all suck, but they all got the job done. I've rode in several cars with 882 turds that screamed.
The old 993s were about the best of the open chamber sbc heads. John Lingenfelter flow tested a bunch of production heads back in the 80s and came to that conclusion. He ported and milled them & used them on 383 builds. He was a pretty sharp dude. That was back before the hundreds of sbc head choices we have now.
@@lollipop84858 They made a shit load of heads. Some better than others.
@@lollipop84858 I'm saying the fuckin 993s were allegedly some of the best open chamber stock heads, but all I would use stock iron heads for would be a wheel chock, or a boat anchor.
The heads you are referring too are the 993 Hecho in Mexico heads that John was using NOT the 993 smog heads ! I have a set of 993 Hecho in Mexico heads on my bench being ported and actually from stock they have awesome features for a STOCK head !
Back in the early 90's my first sbc build had cast iron #461 heads and they were factory 23° 2.02 int 1.6 exh and I had screw in studs done 665 int 675 exh and the 383 sbc they were on with a 175 shot was a fun little street deal back then when I first started. Then in 2000 I bought my first aluminum heads with 2.12 int 1.6 exh shaft rockers, port matched super Victor Jr. Intake had a 250 shot and then went to a blower. Man bring back memories. Great video
Bring me back to my 441 glory days....thanks! Wow things have come far.
I had a set of stock 882 with 2.02 1.60 off my 1975 L82 corvette. Had screw in studs and guide plates also
L-82 heads in corvettes and 73-74 Z28’s
Hey Eric,
Tim here, i aint a sbc guy, but this vid, shows valid difrences, and i just thought this was a KILLER tech vid........TY sir for all ur time and effort.......PEACE to you sir!!!
The rotator was for unleaded fuel compatibility. I know because I read everything in those days. My first new car was a 1972 Chevy Nova, 350, 3 on the floor. $2850 out the door. It had those 882 heads, which I still have somewhere. They got replaced with a pair of 1970 400 heads which had the closed chamber, and a larger 1.6 exhaust valve to go with the 1.94 intakes. The 3863151 350hp 327 cam, $38 at my Chevy dealer, really woke that engine up.
My 1972 olds 350 had valve rotators from the factory :-).
I built a 350 for my Camaro back in 2020. I used 041 heads off of a 400 but they only had 1.50 exhaust valves. They were 71 castings I believe. An old machinist told me about the 70 heads with the 1.6 exhaust but I never have actually seen any. Cool to hear about an actual build with these heads! The engine in the Camaro ran great but honestly, in the current day and age, by the time I bought the heads, had new guides, seats, valves, ect. it would have been cheaper to get a new set of Vortec heads. But it was a cool old school build, probably something similar to what guys were doing back in the 70's and 80's to wake up their smog motors.
The "Cheater" screw in studs are (the ones we use) Pioneer RM-348, they don't have the hex, simply pull the pressed in studs, tap for 7/16-14, was a cinch on the SERDI, double nut and screw them in with a dab of LocTite.
O-ring seals the retainer to the stem to stop the gap in the locks letting oil run down the stem and puddle on the top of the guide.
Thank you for your enlightening videos and spending your time to contribute to the community of those interested in learning about cylinder head improvement.
Brings back good memories, mostly, of building “purestock” engines:) 882’s we’re everywhere and as a kid I definitely got into grinding them with my Dremel and shopvac dust control in my parent’s basement. Stud pinning was the the pretty common affair with the occasional use of ‘cheater’ studs that threaded in but didn’t have a nut shoulder so you had to double nut them to tighten down. Sometimes I was lucky enough to work on “camel humps” for the Street stock guys! When I worked in the shop we used liners to bring back guides. The process had a bunch of steps but went really quick with the right tools. Something like: bore guide, press in liner, cut length, broach and finally ream to size. Then put the pilot in and grind the seats. Grind and Reface valves on the Sioux City. Probably about 30mins a head then off to the Jetspray washer before spring height check/shim and assembly.
Thanks Eric, always appreciate your input on even the worst cast iron SBC heads!
A throw back to 1993. Love it.
Life was way better before the 90’s bud, way better.
@@jasonnielsen2125 i was there. You're way wrong.
@@Go4BrokeOffroad nah, I can’t agree with that.
@@jasonnielsen2125 ok. The facts are there. Nobody drove street cars with 1700 hp on the streets. Parts weren't as easy and readily available. Everybody in town didn't have a CNC machine in the garage to make whatever they want. The old POS 406 that got hot and made 600hp just isn't as cool anymore. Legends, just like Abe Lincoln.
@@Go4BrokeOffroad Life was better, not technology, there’s a huge difference.
Great vid. Now i have a idea of how good my ported 882's flow. I figured about 200cfm. now i know.
Great data on the OEM low compression heads. If you must run factory cast iron heads, the best are the Vortec heads, if rules allow. The number is 062, but don't throw a 906 head away, they are very similar.
I wish this was around 25 years ago.... damn
Thank you for this, I'm getting ready to build an IMCA Sport mod, this is very informative.
There is also a Dart head that's approved for IMCA Sport mod.
Great information! It would be interesting to see what the 60 grit polish does for the stock heads. Any chance you might do a video on the 801, 416, and 601 castings?
I've had good results from porting 487's. They will port out to a Felpro 1205 and with bowl work, 2.02's and 1.60's with minor chamber smoothing, they make good street heads with 85 octane gas. 882's make good heads as well with limited porting but they are thinner and will crack if you run lean or overheat the engine.
Thanks for the info been looking for these numbers on the 487X for a long time.
Thanks for the info on these heads been wondering how they flow for some time, your work is helpful for us low budget guys. Putting a 218 224 comp cam on 400 with 9.7 compression, trying for good torque. Thanks again
Those 487X heads were supposed to be good open chamber sbc heads. I had some 041X and 461X closed chamber heads back in the day, both had bigger runners than the versions without the X.
The 1973 Corvette L-82 had 882 heads with 2.02 int. & screw in studs & the same forged shortblock as 1970-1972 LT-1's.
Makes me miss my 400 I built 8 years ago, stock 2 bolt 400 out of the local pick and pull a comp tow cam z28 valve springs and 882 heads slightly ported with 1.62/2.02 valves 1.6 rockers, flat top pistons, aluminum Camaro intake manifold with a q-jet through stock manifolds it passed ca smog in a 78 c10 350, it was definitely chocked up past 5500rpm but made tons of torque with a 2500 stall 4.56 gears and 31in tires, it would burn the tires until you let off
Thanks, Eric. You saved me from wasting time on a planned head swap. I was just getting ready today to swap a pair of 487s to some Speedmaster/Pro Comps. The cam is only 480 lift. So, as you stated, there is no gain.
Also, the engine the Speedmaster heads were on are now getting some Brodix T1 heads, thanks to your videos.
Your videos are very helpful. Keep up the good work.
🎉🎉EVERY TIME YOU AJUSTED UNDER HOOD, I COULD HEAR THE DIFFERENCE BIG TIME. 😮 THUMBS UP AND GOD BLESS ALL 🎉🎉
Good old 882 love them for what they are ..good video's
I really enjoy your videos.. I own a shop and do a lot of engine work like porting..
my best friend owns a machine shop. I'm there every day playing with his machines ..lol What I'm saying is if your views would pay attention to your videos, they could learn a lot.. even I learned from your videos. Thank you, sir..
I use to run 882 on my 355 in hot stock class they sucked but did the job for the time
487X are commonly foundon 71 and 72 LT-1 Corvettes and Z28 Camaros, they will have guide plates and screw in studs with 2.02/1.60 valves and the combustion chamber relief cut for the 2.02. The 996 heads could be found on the 73 and later L-82 High Performance motors with the same valves and screw in studs/guide plates.
not always. the pair i have are no screw in studs, and do not have 2.02 valves. came off a 72 z28 camaro 350 engine.
My 487s have 2.02 intakes and screw in studs. Came off of a 71 LT-1.
Great video. Those 882s are almost in Camel Hump head territory (recalling your recent video on the 461 heads)
Cant wait for the dyno competition between these heads
Yeah,, but with no compression. And Chevs LOVE compression.
@@ldnwholesale8552 I mean were talking flow here
@@ldnwholesale8552all engines like compression.
When looking at a small or big chevy heads, it looks like the "closed chamber" heads have a quench pad on both sides of the chamber and "open chamber" heads do not have quench pads on the spark plug side. We used to refer to Pontiac heads as either "Large" or "Small" chambers and we have a 1974 SHP Z28 350 that has 882 heads with screw in studs, guide plates and 2.02/1.6 valves. Keep rolling......
993 head would have been nice for comparison.
882 I'd rather start with the 1.84 do the 194 valve job myself, tulip should work Looks like biq quench pad so why characterize as open chamber I call them wedge heads
pinned studs- those were the days, oil
441 I used the spiral grooved k lines and also to convert to 5/16 I Sunnen od hone the valves
487 best to mill that ex corrosion rather than Devcon
X would be nice to see with good valve jobs
EQ were great all their parts
How about a video on chamber designs, an overlooked place for improvement
I asked about the B1 when you said there was room for improvement ( or something like that)
cheers
The myth of the 2.02/1.60 stock 882 heads is true. I had a pair that came off a 77 Corvette L-82, open chamber 882s with factory screw in studs & guide plates with 2.021.60 valves. They do exist, but ive only seen 2 pair in my 40yrs of messing with this shit.
Sold a 73 L82 that had them
Would love to see the flow number for 191 and 193 heads as well (post-87 with the canted center intake bolts found on TBI cars/trucks.)
The swirl port heads? I have seen numbers as low as 165/116. They are junk.
The chamber is pretty good but other than that there is almost no legitimate use for them.
220 to 230 cfm is the most I've seen guys get out of the intake
I'll try porting a set to see how good or bad it will turn out just 4 kicks
Go the mighty swirl ports!!!
Thank you Erik for the efforts to compare these GM factory heads! It was very interesting comparison, esp the 487, 487x and the chinese aluminum ones! I've currently the 487s in my '71's sbc, most likely with stock factory cam. Would you recommend upgrading the rocker ratio to 1,6 or rather swapping the cam to bring the better out of the old sbc? I wonder could you ever possibly flow and review the GM's 113s (aluminum) as they are also recommended a basic upgrade on stock sbc? Thank you very much for today's video!
Those 113s flow about like a doublehump. Not bad for a mild build.
I like watching your videos and your knowledge my question is why don't you make DVDs and templates for someone who wants to learn how to do their own head porting like on the vortecs or the older double jumps or the best big block factory heads like the 781s or 049 you could also make money I'm sure their are alot of people that would buy them I know I would keep up the good work sir I love how you go into details on what to do or what not to do
Great video.
Have you done a video on the 416 heads that so many folks say are junk boat anchors. And that if you put them on a 350 it will be lucky to turn up past 4500 rpms.
"Ol hydraulic flat tappet because your saving a buck, or used to" 🤣
Cool. They all suck for compression and air flow.! Lol. So blessed these days with aftermarket heads!
Some of the old timers use to say to just work on the exhaust side. Get it to flowing above 75% of what the intake flows.
That X head was probably from a Corvette. They had X blocks too. Also the LS has identification bumps along the valve cover perimeter on exhaust side. 243 has different bumps from 317 and on .
The quench side of that aluminum head looks like it severely shrouds the valves.
I helped a friend with a sprint car in the 1980's. At first he was using iron heads and the car ran HOT no matter what we did. When he put on the first set of Brodix aluminum heads the water temp issues went away forever. He never went back to iron heads again. Do you think in an average street strip application an aluminum head on average could run more spark advance and get more HP due to less hot spots in the combustion chamber ?? of course here we are discussing open chamber which typically means low compression.
Right on
I think the people that say they are not open chamber should think of these heads as large chamber. They are probably 76cc chambers where the small chamber sbc heads of the 60's and early 70's would have been 64 cc. Those small chamber 64cc heads will give astronomical compression and they show up in the high horsepower factory small blocks that required high octane fuel.
I have 993 heads they say there like 441 but flow alittle better. I ported them a few years ago before I found your channel. I was on subs aand fish so I used water flow knowledge to port them. some day I would like to send them to you and check them out.
I have a set of 993 also was wondering where they fit in on this line up
They flow about the same as Mexico vortec heads but not at the lower lift numbers like vortecs do! Chambers suck but it is what it is!
1.72 /1.50 882 heads were common too
We used to basically run any head, slightly port it, and valve springs, as long ss it is not a truck head!!
Interesting stuff,how does stock Chevy heads flow compared to other car makers stock heads?
What does Ford & Mopar got to beat the Chevy guys?
That would be quite interesting to see also,and IF You would do that throw in a AMC stock head also,I've heard the AMC ****502-* heads from 1974 should be a pretty good flowing head "for what it is..."
That 487X seems like it would be alot better with only a slight bit of porting, especially on the exhaust, and the intake bowls,
The as cast differences react better to cam upgrades, by a small amount. But if that's what you have to run, a small improvement is a good improvement, lol. Most tracks that mandate these type heads won't allow any porting or gasket matching, the most you can do is to machine cut them with the bowl hogs.
The L82 Vette engine is the only open chamber head I've seen a 202 valve in from the factory.
Yep...Had a 74 model with 882 heads/big valves
@@chrishensley6745 screw in studs and guide plates. We would put it all in double hump castings and change the cam and intake and those engines would run pretty good.
Eric, I’m curious, what is your attitude toward doing work on truly awful heads? I’m not speaking about ones which others have ruined, but those that came bad from the factory and remain untouched, and where the rules pretty much only limit bore size.
Have you ever done Canfield 220 65 cc chamber heads?
I have them on my 406 sbc
I think they work great but I’ve had them a long time
Your thoughts??
Should I upgrade to new heads
I bracket race
That's a pretty cool comparison
Have you had a chance to test the Summit/Dart 165’s with 2.02/1.60’s?
Hey Eric, how do these compare to the double humps? I bet tge double humps with 1.94 valves flow about the same with just a little better chamber.
the procomp head struggles below .300 lift BUT we make better valve cuts to achieve better low lift numbers on these heads! on both the seat and back cut on valve.
Besides, this is 2024 and no one runs .400 lift cam! not a single customer has ever requested such a low lift cam, other than old magazine builders that don't know any different or some budget roundy round class racer. Most every cam and head combo i do for customers starts off with .400 lobe, HYD roller. Bang for the buck you cant beat the ChInEeS hEaDs. Yeah they need some attention to be better, guids & valve job but what head doesn't?? (dont say dart, brodix, RHS that cost 2x the price)
Spier race heads talked pretty good about you
All they're good for is to hold your barn door open!
What year heads? I am required to use 416 heads by NHRA.
oh no . . . . YESH!!!
All 76 cc chamber heads have raise seats. the 69 cc heads don't. So, looks like all those from what I see have had 1 really heavy seat job or 2.
Have you got any flow numbers for the stock 041X heads?
For ever the “Rumor” was the 487X heads we’re supposed to have slightly bigger runners. 🙃
Forever people have said the X heads have a bigger port, I don't know.
Second head from the left has a toasty exhaust valve.
Have you ever flowed any 186 casting heads how good can they flow
Having had a little to do with these gunkers, and Chev heads in general the cut below the intake is factory. AFAIK all at least earlier GM heads had a similar cut. Depending on the casting depends how much. I can remember scrapping these heads as they had no value. These days however they do,, more so with part number junkies on restored cars
Fuellies too were done like that.
Factory retainers and collets IF in good order will be ok on a Fuellie with low 500 lift. Oil shields fall off on std engines, that I have seen on Chevs and Holden 6 and V8. Any more lift go good aftermarket. Not ProComp,, I saw one of those retainers broken as the collets tried to pull through.
Rotators on any remotely performance engine wil fail and cause dropped valves. Not just GM used them on smog engines, a patch to try and make the engines live to outside warranty. Use 5000rpm regularly and they will cause an issue.
Those D shape chambers are useless, and they get detonation on standard engines.
882 castings with 2.02 & 1.600 came on 79 L-82 vette engines . Dont know about any other cars .
Aby idea what they were originally used on? What vehicle, vett, Malibu, camaro, caprice, 1/2 ton truck,
I know my all original 76 1/2 ton chevy with a 350 had a set of 882s
Might flow 190 maybe idk if that close but they don't flow really good
so the speedway boy running boat rusted heads haha
Keith isn't an older guy is he, like in his 60s? Maybe he had a 68 Camaro? Just a shot in the dark.
I be seen 1.94/1.6 especially in a 441
I just got some amazon sbc heads and after watching your videos im questioning if theyre worth it. The bowl arond the seat is bigger than the seat and the bowl cut just scratches the casting slag. So i dont think they will flow good even if i cleaned them up.
Also they are afr copys so the guides seem thin since they are bored to 11/32. I dont know if thats good or not.
With that huge bowl, intake flow will be stagnant..reducing the port volume would actually help it.
@@billcat1840 and cleaning it up with a sanding roll would only make it bigger. How would you make it smaller? Im probably just gunna send them back. The combustion chamber is actually nice. No lips or shrouding at all and smooth casting. The runners look like doo doo though.
@@____MC____ think I would send them back too. Too much work to make them flow right. Sounds like an amateur selling ported heads...just hogging them out is a beginner mistake...I made this mistake myself years ago and had a turd of an engine
@@billcat1840. Been there done that 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Wow. So ? What did the camel heads do? This is the one I always heard about. I don’t know anything about these you have shown.Also the mighty vortex.
Dont waste yout time with camel heads they dont flow any air and as old as they are may be beyond fixing.
The small valve 882 heads had 1.5 exhaust and a 1.72 intake. The 1.84 intake valve was a 305 thing. The early 305 used the 1.72. The later 305 heads had 58 cc chambers and with .480 lift cam would really wake up a dish piston 350 for not much money. A flat top piston 350 would break the ring lands out of the pistons in short order with the 305 head.
We used 305 heads all the time on 350 flat top motors on circle track applications until they were banned.
The motors I saw it tried on were street cars and likely running 87 octane pump gas. I can see it working well on a circle track car.
Have you ever or will you ever do anything with the world sportsman 2.
I did a video and that’s it because I don’t port cast iron.
Need a Biiiiiiiiiiiig cam and cubes to get those bad boys flowing, had a 500 thou and 109 cam in a 355 and it was a shot pig……. Put a set of fuellies on it and the thing would turn tyres alllllllllllllllll day. 👍👌
your wrong about how the valve stem oring works. it seals the oil from running past the valve retainer if properly installed.
Ok
Just so you know, there is no such thing as a "open chamber" sbc cylinder head. An open chamber does NOT have a quench pad and those clearly do.
Not true look at open chamber bbc heads they have a quench pad.
Coking
Ok, forgive my ignorance. I've had this discussion about ford heads before & it's was confusing to me that their was confusion about ,to me, what was obvious! And I see the same here, in the chevy circle. What is your definition of a "open chamber" head? Becouse I see the title, "open chamber" tests!!! And yet I see a thumbnail of a pic of 4 closed chamber heads? Why? How? What is your definition? Ford heads we say open if it's "open"!! No quench pad or a quench pad not on a level with the deck!
These are open chamber. Closed chambers are much tighter.
@WeingartnerRacing ok? What's the cut off line? When does a head become open? At what cc??
The closed chamber heads on a sbc are around 64cc or so, all 4 of the heads in this video were open chamber, 76cc. Notice the spark plug bung in these heads, how it protrudes into the chamber, the closed chambr heads will have a recessed bung for the spark plug.
@elmerfudpucker3204 so is it a amount of cc's or is it the spark plug bung? Can a open chamber be machined down into a closed chamber?
@@jesseduke694 The reason the differences in the spark plug bungs are that the chambers are smaller, hence 64cc volume, vs 76cc volume. The way GM made the quench area for their closed chamber heads, made the spark plug bungs appear either exposed completely, or it appeared to in a recess in the chamber. That's why I suggested you LOOK at the chambers. You can mill any head, but the more you mill it the more it affects other component fitment, and clearances. You run into valve to piston clearances, rocker arm and pushrod geometry and length differences, intake mounting differences, and so on. By the time you do all that, you can have a set of good closed chamber heads for it cheaper and have better performance. take a stab at googling the questions you're asking here, there is a lot out there about this.
There probably isn't 10 horsepower between all of this heads including the 882 that everyone says is junk. They all suck, but they all got the job done. I've rode in several cars with 882 turds that screamed.
My 441 headed Superstock ran 9.69 at 3000 lbs with that ugly chamber.... Mmmm
Think how much faster you would be with a good chamber.