Thanks again to Jibb Smart and also the awesome gyro players featured in the video, go check out their channels with the links in the description! It's seriously impressive how good they are and what they can do with gyro aim/controller, even with special movements in game. Here are the timestamps: 00:00 Intro for Aim Assist frustration 01:49 Jibb Smart talks about using Gyro in game 07:30 Gyro VS Other Inputs 09:35 Approachability, Accessibility and Competitiveness 13:20 Gyro VS Aim Assist 14:00 Will people change from sticks to Gyro? And configs 17:45 How to get into Gyro 19:44 Jibb Smart Final Thought 21:54 Zy (Rocket Jump Ninja) on Gyro and why play games 25:28 Zy closing thoughts (outro)
IDK why console companies didn't do this for the longest time mobile players were able to adapt to the gyro so I see no reason why console players couldn't
Maybe because mobile gaming is relatively new, so, as Jibb talks about, they didn't have to "unlearn" the muscle memory, they just jumped straight in. Many console players would already be locked in with thousands of hours of practice with the default sticks, but looks like things are starting to change as gyro becomes better and more accessible, so here's to hoping!
I think Nintendo really blew an opportunity to do gyro aiming right on the Wii. The Wiimote, even without the Motion+ can be setup to be a very good gyro mouse on PC. However it was never really used as a gyro mouse. This is because they elected to translate the gyro mouse as a joystick to get around the issue with resetting your position. Instead they should have had a dedicated button to turn the gyro on and off which serves the same function as lifting your mouse off the mousepad. Jibb talks about this at about 5:30 and most games don't even have this button, or they'll have a button that resets the vertical pitch which isn't quite the same thing. All that said, having messed around with using gyro mice of all sorts in Quake and other PC games for 15-20 years, there is a simple factor that will always be a problem for gyro aiming and that is you are NOT using it on a stable surface. The real overpowered device that PC gamers use for aiming is their desk. There are techniques I've tried adapted from holding a camera stable, but nothing will ever replace the stability of a desk. A gyro can be every bit as sensitive and responsive as you need it to be, but expecting it to be as good as a mouse is like expecting to be able to write as good holding a clipboard as you can write while sitting at a desk.
@@Rob_Enhoudgyro being a frictionless mouse is an advantage and a disadvantage. On one hand you don’t have to apply a set amount of force to get a low input. On the other hand you have to account for inertia and can’t be as snappy. Whether or not this even matters I believe is a skill issue, because you can just get good at rotating the controller. The real disadvantage with gyro is that the technology itself is not as consistent and reliable as an optical sensor. Gyros have noise and lose calibration over time. Mice don’t need calibration and don’t have noise. Because of this gyro is best used with acceleration and a smoothing filter. Nice don’t need acceleration or a smoothing filter.
Gyro is extremely intuitive! I feel can work for any first person or third person shooter really well if there is a button to re-center your cross hair if at any point you are awkwardly leaning to far to one rotation. Works like a dream in Splatoon and older versions of Doom that i've played. Hoping more of the industry and gaming community picks up on it!
I love that so many of you subscribed to this channel ages ago (8 years in this case!)... really shows you care about competitive aim, regardless of device, so it's a community with a similar mindset of trying to reach our best. You're all awesome 💪 And agreed, def hoping to see more focus on gyro.
Bear in mind Valve themselves didn't push gyro aiming until after it became more widespread. I can't really blame people for avoiding the controller when the manufacturer themselves doesn't know its true value
It's crazy that Gyro isn't widely adopted in all games and controllers, especially the ones which have aim assist. It is extremely intuitive to learn. It took me just one week to get proficient with it and now I can't bear to play without it. Sticks only aiming on the other hand is a nightmare to learn, I remember when I first started using a controller it was awful to aim with the sticks even with aim assist, it took me a couple of months to get used to it and it was so unsatisfying to use because aim assist kept doing half the job for me. I never felt skilled whiled playing any game, and with aim assist disabled it just became unnecessary difficult to aim. Adding Gyro perfectly solves all these problems.
The biggest hurdle is simply that Xbox doesn't support it. Xbox not supporting it means: 1) PC support becomes a bit spotty, because Xbox / X-input is the default controller method for most PC games 2) Cross Platform games can't push gyro over aim assist. Valorant on console for example doesn't support gyro on PS5, because it would be an unfair advantage against Xbox players. Until Microsoft adopts gyro functionality, which probably won't happen until next gen, it will be stuck as a niche input method outside of the Switch.
Dualsense edge 200 dollars for two paddles and two useless unremappable function buttons dedicated to only to swapping layers, when in steam you can use any button to swap layers.
Controllers and the default mappings in games are honestly a complete and utter joke. And recently I've been thinking the same about keyboards and mice. I've been doodling up some concepts for how I'd make my dream keyboard and mouse.
As a regular gyro gamer, I really wish controllers had capacitive buttons like most VR controllers do so that I could activate gyro just by touching certain buttons or sticks. I use this on my Steam Controller where gyro is activated when my finger is on the touchpad. Seems more intuitive to me than having a button to disable gyro.
@iHardScope I got alot of respect for what youre doing on the innovation front. Ive messed around with this myself as a Mnk player as I just like trying new things. They just need a bit more time with iteration to figure out the most logical solutions for edges (like the tf2 180/angle changing). Youre doing that work, great job! Edit: Id also like to ask you if you think the shape or design of controllers would ideally change for maximizing precision on gyro?
@@Dopamine_Drop great question. One controller in each hand with one of them controlling gyro would give a “bigger mousepad” better range. I’m looking forward to try joycons. Maybe the switch two will have improved gyro.
I was really happy to see this video pop up and see RJN discovering Gyro. I've been using motion/gyro controls in online shooters for over 10 years now, and I mainly use split controllers (like JoyCon or the Razer Hydra). I also use a technique called Ratcheting that I don't think was touched on in this video but imo it is the most natural and stable method of control with Gyro. It basically means using a button (or touchpad) to enable gyro movement, and then releasing it to disable so you can recenter. In my experience coming to gyro as a long time mouse player and not from a controller background, I believe that to be the way to go to feel most like a mouse. However I have noticed most Gyro players come from a console/controller background and so prefer to integrate gyro with traditional control setups, like Jibb mentioned having Gyro activate on your ADS button or more commonly just have gyro active on top of normal right-stick look controls. Either way it's great to see Gyro gaining such momentum and hopefully in the future it can become the standard method for aiming on controller. The real battle is not 'gyro vs mkb', it's 'gyro vs AA' because that is what it's up against. My hope is that all manual aiming methods like gyro and mkb eventually get pooled together for input based matchmaking and assisted players get their own pool as well.
We're finally seeing some widespread adoption, thank you for this video! I've been a gyro aiming main since the day i discovered it, cold turkey switched to it from regular controller back in 2022
It would be encouraging to see more devs/games support gyro like in the vid. It would be amazing to see better pairity between mnk and roller in a more natural way like gyro seems. Does seem like the future in crossplay competitive and honestly seems like way more fun than just sticks with AA. Great vid.
Absolutely banger of a video. Thank you for putting a spotlight on the subject of better controls. I'm a console gamer nowadays but I used MNK all my life. No matter how much aim assist a game has I find it impossible to control it, and I've tried a lot. The right stick is just not physically accurate enough for aiming. I didn't know about gyro controls but I'll definitely give it a try.
As a M+KB gamer, using gyro controls on BotW changed my mind on controller aiming forever. It’s so much more intuitive/natural to me than stick aiming.
I'd LOVE gyro controller reviews! I have a steam controller all the way back from when it was new that I still make use of! I'm someone like you who likes to find controlls that suit me best, and I love the steam controller's flexibility. Give it another chance, Valve!!!
Been using Gyro since I have messed up shoulders and can't use a mouse anymore.... It's so damn fun. Using it in tandem with a stick is the key to it's balance. A fast joystick sensitivity can be used for quick turns, while the gyro has a low sensitivity allowing for micro adjustments. Just like how you'd use your arms to swing a mouse to turn vs using your fingers to aim a mouse precisely. I've actually been called an AIMBOTTER when using Gyro in TF2 cus I was doing so well with it. And honestly, it's more intuitive and fun than just a mouse tbh..... Nintendo Switch, and Playstation 3/4/5 all support gyro. And obviously Steam with Steam Input..... Hopefully more devs integrate it.
Thats awesome man.I had some funny moments too where my friends didnt believe me that i wasnt using aim assist with my controller, because i did so good with gyro, in apex.
Some advices for people here, i struggled moving a controller with hands laying on the table, palms either stick to the table, or if i have a felt pad underneath it scratches the hands a bit. the solution is not only working but its easier to aim this way: take the controller in your right hand, imagine like you are holding a gun, try aim in the air, THEN put the controller in the other hand that will always lay on the table and pivot around it. so when you are relaxed and doing small movements both of your hands are on the table, and when you need to flick you get your right hand slightly up and pivot around the left hand. My aim has improved drastically when i switched to acceleration and gyro off button (usually on Y). (acceleration might be harder to use in high ttk games where you have to track your target a lot) Gyro quality might be different, ive initially started playing on gulikit kk3 max, and after switching to dualsense (wired) my aim has improved so much, i cant really tell if its the precision or latency, but the first time i switched i got around 30% better results in aim testing things (THATS HUGE) i prefer having the gyro always on as opposed to only when aiming down sights since it makes jumping and sliding much easier if you dont have back buttons. after about 80 hours on gyro (around 3k hours in all other games combined on mouse) i can comfortably play cs2 on 12k premiere, topfrag half of the time in insurgency sandstorm and cod. Initially i started it as an experiment after seeing ihardscope's videos, at some point when i wasnt quite as good at it my friends who played cs with me asked me to get back to mouse, and for a short time i did, but i never managed to find it enjoyable again. so i got back to gyro. in CS2 my gyro off button (Y) is dedicated only for that, i use action layers on RB to map XYAB to inventory items. in insurgency sandstorm my gyro off (Y) is combined with INTERACT. and in COD (native gyro) i have running on Y (weapon swap on left stick press) where its quite comfortable to use it for gyro off, and scope magnification on melee.
As a more casual player I prefer gyro over mouse now. For singleplayer games even the hard ones where aiming is important I'm playing just as well with both. Now I can play on a big TV and not lose the kb/m like precision. In fact I love mouses but I hate keyboards for gaming, so that's why gyro really won me over, I get mouse precision + gaming buttons and layout, and a stick for smooth camera motion. Great video! also, flick sticks :) subbed, as I want to get into Quake myself
Having played each Splatoon for years, gyro aiming is on of the most intuitive input methods I've every used and blasts open the skill ceiling for the game because of its capabilities beyond the sticks. I flat out refused to shooters that didn't have it for a while because gyro is so natural, and I was hyped when Fortnite switch had added gyro support. Gyro motion is the move for gamepads.
Thank you so much for talking about gyro controlls on your channel, It really means a lot for gamer's community. Because if people would actually try to use gyro, there would be no reason to go back to aim assists alltogether. And in my opinion, it's way more fun playing when you have full controll just by moving your controller in space
4 years back I was in the middle of moving to a new place and I hadn't yet brought over my pc setup to my new place. In the first night I didn't have my pc, I decided to download Cod Mobile to my phone. I saw everyone was talking about gyro controls so I gave it a shot. All I can say is it felt so much like using a mouse because I used my right wrist to do all the fine aiming. In that first night I hit max competitive rank in warzone mobile all because my mouse aim pretty much carried over to gyro controls. Can 100 percent vouch for gyro controls.
Thats interesting. I was playing with doing the fine aim with one hand too. Later i switched to using left or right hand, depending on the direction where i want to aim. I think Gyro is a little bit like a maritial art, where some people only fight with one stance and there a people who fight with both stances,, orthodox and southpaw.
4:45 - funny jibb mentioned that, this is something I found myself doing when I initially switched to a larger mousepad so I can play at a lower sensitivity. I started at using like 1/3 of the mousepad's space, and I almost instinctively started using the entire pad without even noticing.
And also mobile gaming I am using gyro in pubg m from 2018 sad to see even in 2025 gyro aiming is not standard in console gaming trust it is game changing specially in mobile I don't use in console but mobile we can easily compete with pc with keyboard and mouse and I also test it one on my friends in pubg m emulator on pc I am on mobile with gyroI beat him easily with 4 points @@lunchtreyy
Ohhh... It take so long, but finally! The video I was waiting for... I play mainly with gyro for quite some time now (2017) and it's works wonders. For me it was really easy to master gyro aim, very intuitive and natural and since I have some difficulty to find a good mouse here where I live it was a god send. Also I'm kinda curious about things and Jibb's software is pretty fun to play around. I even have some videos playing CPMA against high difficulty bots. Thanks for the support! I think that it's means a lot for the gyro community.
Gyro being widely adopted for FPS is one of my biggest wishes for gaming. It would solve so many issues and might genuinely change the whole shooter genre for the better. However I don't believe it will ever happen :c
@@OmairArif the problem is that even if xbox fully adopts it. It would only be one of the hurdles. Another problem would be aim assist. Most(if not all) of the popular fps games would have to reduce aim assist to a useless level or remove it entirely.
@justthere845 yes, but that is a transition that can only start once a viable alternative to aim assist (gyro aim) is available to cross platform devs. Nintendo has already done that transition in their bubble. The thing is that even if we get gyro in the next gen Xbox, the Xbox series consoles will probably continue to be supported long into the next gen, similar to how the Xbox one has had continued support for years. So realistically this transition is 6+ years away.
I'm so glad gyro is getting way more coverage as of recently, I've been using it in splatoon for almost 9 years now and I know many don't like it at first but the potential it has is beyond of just stick aim, I think how splatoon handles gyro is well made since you fully aim with gyro and use your right stick to look around only horizontally, while also having a dedicated button to reset your aim to wherever your character is facing. As said in the video it's adviced to have the right stick sensitivity cranked up wich most pleople do in splatoon. I'd really love to see it get implemented in more games since using steam to mimick mouse input with gyro just doesn't feel as good.
This is one of the main reason why I love playing on the Steam Deck not only is it more immersive moving near 1:1 but also with the screen accurately is cool as hell. The really cool thing as well is that it only activates gyro when you lightly press on the right analogue stick, as in a capactive button to trigger it making micro adjustments when needing it and use the right analogue to well play norrmally. Its so nice an intuitive to use when aiming and not randomly triggering it when you're just moving around. And way more accurate and satifying than having to rely on aim assist where the game plays for you.
Top-notch guest! Kudos to him for making the gyro sens a meaningful unit of measure. I wish there was some kind of EU regulation that forbade the sale of games without proper units for FOV and sens, haha.
I love gyro and have used it for 300+ hours. I switched to have a better gaming posture and less pain in neck. I’ve tried many configs and I find the easiest way to get good control is to have only one input for the camera, gyro. A gyro off button (the right trigger) also frees up the right stick and gives access to 4 more inputs. I find it easier because When you use two different inputs, stick and gyro makes it feel like two different parts of the brain work at the same times. And to do precise 180 turns like you need in quake gyro only is easier to get into muscle memory and more intuitive. The lowest gyro sens I can play quake comfortably is 4.3. And 0.6 for the aim down site. So 4.3 turns in game for a 360 with the controller. I use the same gyro sens for valorant and it works really well. I don’t use acceleration but I’m curious to see if it could make it even more efficient and precise. Btw. I bought the razor controller you showed in the beginning of the video. If you turn fast it flippes out like a really cheap mouse in fast movements. Also, Steam has really good gyro settings. Wich can be used for almost any game. Thank you for a great video!!!
Acceleration is really good imo. It let's you have low sensitivities for precise aiming and high sens for flicking. I play on 2 minimum and 20 maximum for my sens and I don't even use the right stick anymore.
you should look up the input labs alpakka. it's the only controller i know of that uses gyro as the only camera input, and it replaces the right stick with an 8-way hat and a scroll wheel
I use gyro with acceleration too. 4x liniar acceleration. But i play with regular sticks together. Your brain will learn how to track enemys with the stick with Gyro together. But you need good stick control skill to get good with that. But when you reach the point where you get good with the sticks too, gyro gaming will be more comfy, because you have much less work with your wrists now. I play Quake, apex, all kind of fps games very good.
I've been a person that was gaming on a console for most of my 23 and a half years of life, but a genre I bounced off was shooters. It was something I was interested in, but outside of a few title, it really didn't click for me until I played BotW almost 5 years ago. Gyro made shooters (and other genres) click with me because I was able to have more direct control of my aim, plus with a sensitivity high enough I can also use the face buttons without clawing. I can never go back to stick aiming, it's the equivalent of going from mouse aiming to keyboard aiming.
I actually liked the Gyro aiming mode when I tried it years ago on my Steam controller. And I knew right away with enough patience and experience, it can be superior aiming style.
Stick-flick gyro has been an interesting development. I haven't tried it yet myself, but I probably should. The topic really makes me wonder how far the whole thing could go. How long before discord servers, and forums of gamers are hyping up the new gyroart 3395 sensor for their fav gamepad shape? Great video, RJN! Very well thought out.
I only game with gyro nowadays. One pro tip if you own a dual sense controller. You can actually use a strip of aluminium foil from the kitchen, fold it to a thin strip and tape it between the right side of the touchpad and the middle between the four buttons. Then in steam you set right touchpad touch to gyro activation. That way you can you gyro ratcheting without loosing a button. It's kinda like the same concept as the Alpakka controller. If you like this solution but would like to improve, just order copper tape and place your gyro activation where youd like.
Excellent video, RJN. Gyro is definitely the natural progression of controller aim, but I have concerns about how it could successfully be implemented when the controller user base has been coddled with essentially a soft-aimbot for so long. Like with everything, some people would adapt to it naturally and quickly become proficient with the control scheme, while others will be forced to face an uncomfortable reality on what their true skill level is with aim assist turned off. I won't mince words about this - modern FPS players are soft ass bitches. They're either going to complain about Gyro endlessly, convincing each other that there's something wrong with it at a fundamental level, or they're going to flock to companies like cronus to try to claw back the competitive advantage that they used to enjoy.
Need a version 2 of the steam controller, big picture mode on steam lets you use gyro for any game that doesn’t natively support it. I tried to get good with gyro but I need way more time with it lol
17:01 You can do the rocket jump set ups that you do on gyro. I got the achievement for completing the rocket jump tutorial in Quake Live recently using only gyro. Something that still isn't easy for just anyone to finish on mouse.
I would be super impressed if someone could rocket jump like I do by using gyro... it requires so much accuracy at high speed. Maybe I'll learn it enough to be able to try it 🤔
@@RocketJumpNinjaYou could probably learn it in a week. Your style and how you use gyro is up to you. Do you use flick stick, gyro only with ratcheting, or traditional analog in tandem with gyro? I personally find the latter better for quake when it comes to b-hopping since the continuous movement of analog camera movement helps with b-hop acceleration, but that doesn't mean you'll find it comfortable. After the first week of figuring it out, you'll probably spend a month exploring your settings before you find something comfortable to use as a baseline. Everything after that is gonna be fine tuning until you finally settle on a sensitivity and control scheme that works for you. For quake, my control scheme has all weapons on the face buttons (X,O,□,∆) and I have a mode shift layer for a second set of weapons. I feel it's very beneficial to have them there since your right thumb will be free of the right stick for aiming to be able to weapon swap easier since the gyro makes up for having to aim with the stick all the time with traditional control schemes. All the major weapons are on the top layer. The unholy Trinity, rockets, rail and lightning, and the gauntlet for quick n cheeky humiliations. Lol. The second layer I activate with either a paddle or a trigger, and that lets me select the rest of the weapons, shotty on rail, machine gun on lg, and plasma on rockets. Nades on gauntlet because I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it. 乁| ･ 〰 ･ |ㄏ Just giving you ideas on what to try if you do go with this. I and other people in the gyrogaming subreddit or discord would be happy to help you tune and mold your style if you decide to go through with this and have questions about anything.
As an Xbox to PC convert this is extremely interesting. I really love vr shooter games and genuinely feel they've aided in my own understanding of handling of firearms this is eerily adjacent.
I tried gyro a few times on apex and really wasnt clicking for me. But I got so frustrated because I wanted to play other games but is so hard with stick, mainly because a lack of AA and coming from a mnk first before controller, wasnt really a fan of AA even after years of playing controller. My goal was to play any game semi competitively with a controller without aim assist, and gyro is the answer for now. So I decided to really practice gyro. I've been using it and had gotten allot better at it although on a phone, but I believe its a good starting point. Allot awkward at first, but hey, I remember when the first time I played a shooter with a mouse, I couldn't aim for shit. So really its just a matter of patience and consistency also gyro needs to be publicize more intuitively.
My personal favorite controllers for gyro are the Dualsense Edge and the Steam Controller. The trackpad is a steep learning curve, but quite rewarding. Dualsense Edge has a pretty high polling rate on the gyro, as well as back buttons.
id heard gyro aim was pretty good from a friend who plays splatoon but never realised just how good it was until solarlights video showed using it in tf2 where i really was amazed
These are things game publishers pushed for not esports orgs. Remember esports don’t own the games so they have to abide by the rules meaning if they want AA allowed so their league is more accessible then the esports orgs can only choose to abide by their rules or turn the game down which people hate to see so they just accept it for the fans that want to see the game at a competitive level. But because leagues are making less and less money publishers are realizing this and nerfing AA or coming out with games that have less. Don’t worry, raw input esports is coming back
This is just great video! I discovered gyro when I was trying out Steam Controller and used it for steering in F1 game years ago. I think that racing games are another great way to introduce people to gyro as you don’t have to combine it with thumbstick or use gyro off button and just simply turn the controller. Thanks to gyro I was able to enjoy Assetto Corsa, which is great game, just not very suited to thumbsticks. Gyro solved that for me. It is also so much cheaper and versatile than dedicated steering wheel and pedals sets.
It's funny, I remember as a kid playing driving games, we'd always turn the controller in the direction we were steering, thinking it would help turn the car more. I think everyone who's ever used a controller can relate to that! In that sense, gyro controls are a great evolution. I use gyro all the time on my Steam Deck, but not as much on my Lenovo Go, since I'm more focused on learning mouse control-and mostly just the mouse, as I use the joystick like a keyboard. When it comes to gyro, I mainly use it in handheld mode. I’ve tried using it with a controller, and while it works sometimes, I struggle to fully get the hang of it. I feel like I need the screen right in front of me to make it work best. Controllers and handhelds are just completely different in terms of how they feel and function. The sensory systems vary a lot between devices-take the PS5 sensor versus the Steam Deck, Lenovo, or Nintendo sensors, for example. They all have different tweaks, dead zones, and sensitivities, which makes it hard to have a one-size-fits-all setup.
Takes a month ti convert your thumb stick "skill" to gyro. Gyro is much more immersive the more you use it the morr you want to take it to the next level with ratcheting and flick stick We need more gane with it and less aim assist in all games.
@@MrRonskimost people that use controller use Xbox. PC gaming is dominated by Xbox controllers because Microsoft owns windows and Xbox, so most games have native Xinput support, the same Xinput support that doesn’t have gyro. Most people don’t even know what gyro is, and if they have an idea it’s dancing around like on the Wii. Xbox is holding the industry back.
@@MarioMario-vy4bi Yeah but Xbox consoles are still the only platform that is fully locked out of native gyro. Every other platform has access to it. Only way to get gyro on Xbox is third party attachments or leaving xbox. MS could do a Simple controller update + software changes and then almost everyone has access to gyro
This would be epic for driving or flying games where you aim as well not only with the vehicle, but shooting in directions other than the driving direction. I want that for Warhammer 40,000: Speed Freeks and GTA Online.
a tipp for the sensitivity. From what i saw, good gyro gamers on YT using a sens from like 6x to 8x rotations in game for 1x full 360 rotation with the controller. (without acceleration). good players with liniar acceleration use like 4x rotation wich goes up to 8x with quick hand movement. (my favourite) Works awesome. And i recomment the default deadzones for gyro in steam input. I know deadzone sounds bad. But imo its a big benefit. Using no gyro deadzone feels like using a ultralight mouse on a glas mousepad. And with deadzone it feels like a cloth mouse pad with good stopping power.
@@ggs1821 Sorry for the late answer. The names are : Gyrojesus, Japa, iHardscope, minusZZERO, Getdunked, NoMisZx Gyrojesus and Japa are the ones, who use acceleration. I think ihardscope too.
The gyro clips in this video look like mouse indeed. Even more controlled tbh (the 3:53 flick, to take just one example from here)! And it makes sens(e), aiming with 2 hands (stabilizing each other) holding an ergonomic object (very human-like) *has* to be better than 1 damn unstable finger on a wobbly stick propped up in the air. And also better than scraping a plastic egg over a piece of cloth, sadly. It's actually obvious now that I look at it and think about it (will stay MnK, no matter what comes, but yea 😅). Whenever I tested gyro on friends console it felt amazing (and I passionately *hate* playing any shooter with controller, due to being a complete noob with the right joystick). Wtf is wrong with most controller players not using it tho 💀 6:28 is the way to go pbly. Very interesting video, great interview & ideas & clips, thanks for making & being open minded! 🏆💯
ive been using gyro aiming through steam input for years well when the game works with it. I wish they were natively put into games more. I found people tend to assoicate gyro as cheap wii gimmick or have never heard of it
I'm a PC player, and nerve problems in my wrist now make it impossible for me to play my favorite FPS games with a mouse. I can still use a controller, but precise stick-aiming is painful. I would love to use gyro controls to be able to play all my favorite games again.
I always thought gyro controls were just a gimmick and I tried it years ago and didnt like it but after trying that aperture desk job game on the steam deck it made me realize how good gyro could be if it was implemented properly.
Something I've thought about in regards to controllers recently is if something like rapid trigger could be implemented for analog sticks, making input stop when returning to neutral would probably be really beneficial if it could be implemented
I wouldnt get rid of the sticks. I use sticks with gyro. Removing the right stick would be like playing with m/k, but only with my wrist and without the rest of the arm.
Remember that Gyro was automatically on the PS Vita with Uncharted. I really had to fight muscle memory vs intuition, and on such a small screen did make it all extra uncomfortable. I don't mind trying again but then rather on a normal TV or Monitor screen to see if it actually works. But when I switched from M&K to controller in Rocket League it took about 2 months for me. My Muscle memory is stronger then my fortitude. Eventually it did click. Still a process of frustration.
30 minutes of a video by Rocket Jump Ninja ABOUT gyro ? I'm in I don't understand why Sony doesn't push gyro aim further, it works SO WELL even in non shooter games on Switch. Back then I've completed the Tomb Raider reboot with Steam Input, triggering the gyro when I aim with the bow and it felt like BoTW, just wonderful. There are even more things to do, with flick stick and such. I'm sure that flick stick COULD be an advantage over mouse and keyboard. That would allow for crossplay to be truly great. No need for aim assist or whatever, controllers would just be different, but not unfair because you would still be able to play with gyro on PC if you want Most games don't even have true crossplay, as console players will not be able to get in PC lobbies unless they're tagging with a PC friend. Microsoft needs to implement gyro in xinput, we need native support on PC and that will be a step. Sony will not have to do much because they already have a gyro, but they're just followers and not many devs are using it because Playstation gamers mostly don't care. Nintendo gamers are real about it but because it's online service is sub-par and there's not much crossplay, well ..... I do remember some people complaining about Switch players aiming better in OW2, but their game runs at 30 fps lol so that doesn't make a big difference. Hopefully with the Switch 2 things will change, we'll have more multiplayer games on it, running better (like maybe Valorant on console ? I'm definitely sure that on this game, gyro will have a BIG advantage over aim assist)
Heard bits and pieces about gyro controls over the years from DS4/PS4, Switch, Steam deck etc and have barely used it myself but it does seem like it has a lot of potential. Micro adjustments vs sticks for example (without aim assist) would surely be much better and more natural. 9:50 I remember stuff like this 20+ years ago, people who aren't gamers find twin sticks very difficult and unintuitive, more than likely operating one at a time or barely using the right stick, if at all. Operating multiple axes at the same time when you've never done it is a very weird experience, very similar to people who've never played PC games using m&k for games for the first time. Tangential but it's like the younger gen only using touch devices not being used to PCs, file systems, how they work etc - very little if any experience using other input devices and many have no idea what they're doing
I'm surprised neither of you mentioned capacitive sensors in the sticks like the Steam Deck. So the sticks (or trackpads) know when your finger is on them. Gyro can be enabled only when touching the right stick for instance, so you can let go to recenter. It's a much more elegant solution than a dedicated gyro-off button.
I started as a gamepad player as a wee little child and I remember mouse and keyboard controls being wholly unintuitive. I can't even remember the point where they started feeling normal and how I learned them. Of course, I can't remember at all what it was like to learn pad either.
I've been trying to remember how I felt about mouse and keyboard too... I know I started out on keyboard only in games like DOOM and Duke Nukem 3D Atomic, then had the option of adding mouse but didn't feel right... then Quake came along and if my memory serves, I just somehow played perfectly fine with it? Surely there was an adjustment period...
@@RocketJumpNinja My earliest mouse memory is of playing CoD 4 and not really getting WADS movement and using the arrow keys, and aiming with the keyboard because the mouse didn't make sense. Fast forward not even a few years and I'm playing competitive FPS online. *shrug*
Ever since I first tried gyro aiming in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, I haven't been able to go back to controller aiming without it. I still prefer mouselook for most shooters, and for virtually all first person games, just for comfort, but gyro is a solid second pick. I especially like the Steam Deck's implementation, where gyro only activates when you have your thumb on the stick or trackpad, which very elegantly allows you to quickly recenter. If gyro aiming becomes the new standard for consoles, I hope that feature comes with it, but sadly, I don't think it ever will become standard until Microsoft adds it to Xbox, but if they do, gaming will be a lot nicer. Also, a lot of newer include dedicated accessibility settings. I bet a lot of players would be too proud to use heavy aim assist if it was explicitly stated to be an accessibility feature, even better if the setting calls itself out as being for people who can't use gyro to help guide them to it
As a good mouse player I'd love to learn this so I can find motivation to start play more causual competetive shooters on the TV in the living room. Right now I can't get away from quake and the computer, never using my PS5.
5:29 Which is exactly why I hardly even bother with gyro controls. That missing control feature is so much more common in games I tried that it doesn't even feel worth getting into the matter at this point in time. As a matter of fact, it completely eludes me how a studio can miss the absolute necessity of offering that functionality.
Or you can one hand it by using a control stick/console stick (what ever the name is). Being able to adjust the sensitivity, your quick jolts act like mouse movement while having a control like feel and most importantly 'ergonomics'. There were many wonky variations when I was a kid but probably the most modern one I came across has been the 3M version.
The controllers need a whole redesign. These people have the side of their index finger pressing on the left dpad. That's not natural. Xbox doesn't even bother implementing gyro and charges 120$ for objectively worse features. If we need the game to aim for you then that means there's something wrong with the controller not the game.
To the argument of how to introduce gamers to gyro, I'll share my own experience. I was introduced to gyro with the Steam Controller, so I was using a touchpad instead of a stick, and having the gyro only active when touching the pad. That method is much more intuitive if you are coming from mouse and keyboard, in the sense that you can actually lift your thumb from the pad and recenter the controller, just like you would with a mouse. In my opinion, it is also a more elegant solution to the 'Big movements vs Small movements' debate, since you can have a high sensitivity on the touchpad and a smaller one on the gyro, so those roles become easily defined. The comparison that I like to make for mouse users is that you use your thumb on the touchpad for movements you'd do with your forearm/arm, while the gyro does the ones you'd use your wrist for.
The main reason gyro isn't more competitive is that no one has made a one-handed Joy-Con-style controller with good gyro capabilities. If you try rotating a regular controller, you'll notice how limited the motion is. This limitation forces players to use high gyro sensitivity, which makes flick shots inconsistent. From what I have seen, that’s really the only drawback of gyro aside from limited software support.
@CandarianGaming I am talking about competitive level flick shot not shakey one. You can watch ihardscope which is considered to have the best aim on gyro, but still his flick shot is not clean nor accurate as mnk.
If gyro-aiming catches on I guess we could see games that seperate the camera from the aiming kind of like the Wii did. Also on a side note: claw-grip on controllers look really unergonomic and there should probably be more buttons on the bottom.
It would depend on the implementation, but freezing camera rotation while aiming can get OP pretty quick. If it's the kind where it momentarily becomes a 2D game where you select a pixel on the screen, and the game turns to fire at what's underneath that pixel in 3D space. Then you'll want to keep targets near the edge of your screen to exploit that they'll take up more pixels (this technique is already good for scouting in games with large distances). That's how it worked in 007: Nightfire, haha!
@Visstnok yeah but you also loose field of view. Having your aim tied to camera means that you are looking around more and can see more things going on around you.
There was a gyro aiming method specifically for pc which I can't really remember the name for. However the way it worked was you use the tight stick to change where hou are facing and the usengyron to actually aim. Basically the right stick would only rotate your character, it was insanely cool.
I would l love to see a AAA crossplay game ship with no aim assist, and good default gyro controls. We also have to remember that not only do we need good gyro options, we need the defaults to be good too. Maybe people will not take the time to set up the controls, but might get used to it if they are already at a good starting point. Give as few excuses to give up as possibile.
Good defaults are important, and also a good tutorial for how to use it, and what each setting means. A lot of implementations expect the player to already know what it all means, and a casual player most likely won't take the time to research online or experiment.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks again to Jibb Smart and also the awesome gyro players featured in the video, go check out their channels with the links in the description! It's seriously impressive how good they are and what they can do with gyro aim/controller, even with special movements in game.
Here are the timestamps:
00:00 Intro for Aim Assist frustration
01:49 Jibb Smart talks about using Gyro in game
07:30 Gyro VS Other Inputs
09:35 Approachability, Accessibility and Competitiveness
13:20 Gyro VS Aim Assist
14:00 Will people change from sticks to Gyro? And configs
17:45 How to get into Gyro
19:44 Jibb Smart Final Thought
21:54 Zy (Rocket Jump Ninja) on Gyro and why play games
25:28 Zy closing thoughts (outro)
Thanks so much for having me! And for the looooooong chat that continued well after we finished recording 😁
Aim-Assist players are no real esports players imo. At best, they are marketing gamers for the developers imo.
well xbox dont have gyro so never add gyro in console
IDK why console companies didn't do this for the longest time mobile players were able to adapt to the gyro so I see no reason why console players couldn't
Maybe because mobile gaming is relatively new, so, as Jibb talks about, they didn't have to "unlearn" the muscle memory, they just jumped straight in. Many console players would already be locked in with thousands of hours of practice with the default sticks, but looks like things are starting to change as gyro becomes better and more accessible, so here's to hoping!
Because the only gyro that is good is the one that comes with potatoes, onions, tomatoes and tzatziki...
@@RocketJumpNinjaThere's also the fact that as Splatoon showed, gyro players are often simply just better than stick only players.
I think Nintendo really blew an opportunity to do gyro aiming right on the Wii. The Wiimote, even without the Motion+ can be setup to be a very good gyro mouse on PC. However it was never really used as a gyro mouse. This is because they elected to translate the gyro mouse as a joystick to get around the issue with resetting your position. Instead they should have had a dedicated button to turn the gyro on and off which serves the same function as lifting your mouse off the mousepad. Jibb talks about this at about 5:30 and most games don't even have this button, or they'll have a button that resets the vertical pitch which isn't quite the same thing.
All that said, having messed around with using gyro mice of all sorts in Quake and other PC games for 15-20 years, there is a simple factor that will always be a problem for gyro aiming and that is you are NOT using it on a stable surface. The real overpowered device that PC gamers use for aiming is their desk. There are techniques I've tried adapted from holding a camera stable, but nothing will ever replace the stability of a desk. A gyro can be every bit as sensitive and responsive as you need it to be, but expecting it to be as good as a mouse is like expecting to be able to write as good holding a clipboard as you can write while sitting at a desk.
@@Rob_Enhoudgyro being a frictionless mouse is an advantage and a disadvantage. On one hand you don’t have to apply a set amount of force to get a low input. On the other hand you have to account for inertia and can’t be as snappy. Whether or not this even matters I believe is a skill issue, because you can just get good at rotating the controller.
The real disadvantage with gyro is that the technology itself is not as consistent and reliable as an optical sensor. Gyros have noise and lose calibration over time. Mice don’t need calibration and don’t have noise. Because of this gyro is best used with acceleration and a smoothing filter. Nice don’t need acceleration or a smoothing filter.
Gyro is extremely intuitive!
I feel can work for any first person or third person shooter really well if there is a button to re-center your cross hair if at any point you are awkwardly leaning to far to one rotation.
Works like a dream in Splatoon and older versions of Doom that i've played.
Hoping more of the industry and gaming community picks up on it!
I love that so many of you subscribed to this channel ages ago (8 years in this case!)... really shows you care about competitive aim, regardless of device, so it's a community with a similar mindset of trying to reach our best. You're all awesome 💪
And agreed, def hoping to see more focus on gyro.
Hey I know that guy! Gyro is so underrated. Been enjoying it since Splatoon 1's launch days
guh
In retrospect, steam controller slander was just an early adoption issue.
Give my boy another chance, valve.
Build quality was also not great
I still break mine out every once in a while. It's pretty great for (3)DS emulation since you can use the trackpad as a touch screen pointer.
@TheNinjaCrash it wasn't amazing, but the tech was there. It is a good controller, and was very misunderstood by the mainstream media.
Bear in mind Valve themselves didn't push gyro aiming until after it became more widespread. I can't really blame people for avoiding the controller when the manufacturer themselves doesn't know its true value
It's crazy that Gyro isn't widely adopted in all games and controllers, especially the ones which have aim assist. It is extremely intuitive to learn. It took me just one week to get proficient with it and now I can't bear to play without it.
Sticks only aiming on the other hand is a nightmare to learn, I remember when I first started using a controller it was awful to aim with the sticks even with aim assist, it took me a couple of months to get used to it and it was so unsatisfying to use because aim assist kept doing half the job for me. I never felt skilled whiled playing any game, and with aim assist disabled it just became unnecessary difficult to aim.
Adding Gyro perfectly solves all these problems.
The biggest hurdle is simply that Xbox doesn't support it. Xbox not supporting it means:
1) PC support becomes a bit spotty, because Xbox / X-input is the default controller method for most PC games
2) Cross Platform games can't push gyro over aim assist. Valorant on console for example doesn't support gyro on PS5, because it would be an unfair advantage against Xbox players.
Until Microsoft adopts gyro functionality, which probably won't happen until next gen, it will be stuck as a niche input method outside of the Switch.
It’s not just gyro too. First party controllers need an overhaul with more accessible buttons as standard.
They do coming from pc I hate having to take my thumb off of the camera to push a face button
Dualsense edge 200 dollars for two paddles and two useless unremappable function buttons dedicated to only to swapping layers, when in steam you can use any button to swap layers.
Yeah, grip buttons should be standard.
Controllers and the default mappings in games are honestly a complete and utter joke. And recently I've been thinking the same about keyboards and mice. I've been doodling up some concepts for how I'd make my dream keyboard and mouse.
As a regular gyro gamer, I really wish controllers had capacitive buttons like most VR controllers do so that I could activate gyro just by touching certain buttons or sticks. I use this on my Steam Controller where gyro is activated when my finger is on the touchpad. Seems more intuitive to me than having a button to disable gyro.
great video, hopefully one day this conversation will be a no brainer. thanks for the shout!
You're welcome! And definitely, hopefully enough people get inspired by seeing what you and others do with a controller and it becomes the norm!
@iHardScope I got alot of respect for what youre doing on the innovation front.
Ive messed around with this myself as a Mnk player as I just like trying new things. They just need a bit more time with iteration to figure out the most logical solutions for edges (like the tf2 180/angle changing). Youre doing that work, great job!
Edit: Id also like to ask you if you think the shape or design of controllers would ideally change for maximizing precision on gyro?
@@Dopamine_Drop great question. One controller in each hand with one of them controlling gyro would give a “bigger mousepad” better range.
I’m looking forward to try joycons. Maybe the switch two will have improved gyro.
@@zachariasstarlid5365I don't think it would really translate that way, but I'm curious about your results.
@@zachariasstarlid5365 idk about that. Its less stable i think. Like holding a gun with 1 hand instead of 2. But do your thing bro.
I was really happy to see this video pop up and see RJN discovering Gyro. I've been using motion/gyro controls in online shooters for over 10 years now, and I mainly use split controllers (like JoyCon or the Razer Hydra). I also use a technique called Ratcheting that I don't think was touched on in this video but imo it is the most natural and stable method of control with Gyro. It basically means using a button (or touchpad) to enable gyro movement, and then releasing it to disable so you can recenter. In my experience coming to gyro as a long time mouse player and not from a controller background, I believe that to be the way to go to feel most like a mouse. However I have noticed most Gyro players come from a console/controller background and so prefer to integrate gyro with traditional control setups, like Jibb mentioned having Gyro activate on your ADS button or more commonly just have gyro active on top of normal right-stick look controls.
Either way it's great to see Gyro gaining such momentum and hopefully in the future it can become the standard method for aiming on controller. The real battle is not 'gyro vs mkb', it's 'gyro vs AA' because that is what it's up against. My hope is that all manual aiming methods like gyro and mkb eventually get pooled together for input based matchmaking and assisted players get their own pool as well.
great video! very nice to see Gyro gets finally some positive attention
We're finally seeing some widespread adoption, thank you for this video!
I've been a gyro aiming main since the day i discovered it, cold turkey switched to it from regular controller back in 2022
Me too, earlier this year. Worked my way up to 8 sens 2 accel ratcheting and flick stick. Never going back
It would be encouraging to see more devs/games support gyro like in the vid. It would be amazing to see better pairity between mnk and roller in a more natural way like gyro seems. Does seem like the future in crossplay competitive and honestly seems like way more fun than just sticks with AA. Great vid.
I'm shocked people didn't catch onto this sooner. I remember people doing it with the Steam Controller with GREAT results YEARS ago.
Absolutely banger of a video. Thank you for putting a spotlight on the subject of better controls. I'm a console gamer nowadays but I used MNK all my life. No matter how much aim assist a game has I find it impossible to control it, and I've tried a lot. The right stick is just not physically accurate enough for aiming. I didn't know about gyro controls but I'll definitely give it a try.
Splatoon players were called insanse for using gyro controls
I have sworn by gyro since Splatoon 1 it is soooo good
@@willwunsche6940 same
As a M+KB gamer, using gyro controls on BotW changed my mind on controller aiming forever. It’s so much more intuitive/natural to me than stick aiming.
I'd LOVE gyro controller reviews! I have a steam controller all the way back from when it was new that I still make use of! I'm someone like you who likes to find controlls that suit me best, and I love the steam controller's flexibility. Give it another chance, Valve!!!
Same here
Been using Gyro since I have messed up shoulders and can't use a mouse anymore.... It's so damn fun. Using it in tandem with a stick is the key to it's balance.
A fast joystick sensitivity can be used for quick turns, while the gyro has a low sensitivity allowing for micro adjustments. Just like how you'd use your arms to swing a mouse to turn vs using your fingers to aim a mouse precisely.
I've actually been called an AIMBOTTER when using Gyro in TF2 cus I was doing so well with it. And honestly, it's more intuitive and fun than just a mouse tbh.....
Nintendo Switch, and Playstation 3/4/5 all support gyro. And obviously Steam with Steam Input..... Hopefully more devs integrate it.
Thats awesome man.I had some funny moments too where my friends didnt believe me that i wasnt using aim assist with my controller, because i did so good with gyro, in apex.
Lets go! I was called an cheater too. because i had "no recoil" while tracking someone with sticks and gyro lol
10:45 that guy is cracked dang
Nice video!
Sure is, thanks again and same to you!
Some advices for people here, i struggled moving a controller with hands laying on the table, palms either stick to the table, or if i have a felt pad underneath it scratches the hands a bit. the solution is not only working but its easier to aim this way: take the controller in your right hand, imagine like you are holding a gun, try aim in the air, THEN put the controller in the other hand that will always lay on the table and pivot around it. so when you are relaxed and doing small movements both of your hands are on the table, and when you need to flick you get your right hand slightly up and pivot around the left hand.
My aim has improved drastically when i switched to acceleration and gyro off button (usually on Y). (acceleration might be harder to use in high ttk games where you have to track your target a lot)
Gyro quality might be different, ive initially started playing on gulikit kk3 max, and after switching to dualsense (wired) my aim has improved so much, i cant really tell if its the precision or latency, but the first time i switched i got around 30% better results in aim testing things (THATS HUGE)
i prefer having the gyro always on as opposed to only when aiming down sights since it makes jumping and sliding much easier if you dont have back buttons.
after about 80 hours on gyro (around 3k hours in all other games combined on mouse) i can comfortably play cs2 on 12k premiere, topfrag half of the time in insurgency sandstorm and cod.
Initially i started it as an experiment after seeing ihardscope's videos, at some point when i wasnt quite as good at it my friends who played cs with me asked me to get back to mouse, and for a short time i did, but i never managed to find it enjoyable again. so i got back to gyro.
in CS2 my gyro off button (Y) is dedicated only for that, i use action layers on RB to map XYAB to inventory items. in insurgency sandstorm my gyro off (Y) is combined with INTERACT. and in COD (native gyro) i have running on Y (weapon swap on left stick press) where its quite comfortable to use it for gyro off, and scope magnification on melee.
As a more casual player I prefer gyro over mouse now. For singleplayer games even the hard ones where aiming is important I'm playing just as well with both. Now I can play on a big TV and not lose the kb/m like precision. In fact I love mouses but I hate keyboards for gaming, so that's why gyro really won me over, I get mouse precision + gaming buttons and layout, and a stick for smooth camera motion. Great video! also, flick sticks :)
subbed, as I want to get into Quake myself
YESSSS!
Having played each Splatoon for years, gyro aiming is on of the most intuitive input methods I've every used and blasts open the skill ceiling for the game because of its capabilities beyond the sticks. I flat out refused to shooters that didn't have it for a while because gyro is so natural, and I was hyped when Fortnite switch had added gyro support. Gyro motion is the move for gamepads.
Thank you so much for talking about gyro controlls on your channel, It really means a lot for gamer's community.
Because if people would actually try to use gyro, there would be no reason to go back to aim assists alltogether.
And in my opinion, it's way more fun playing when you have full controll just by moving your controller in space
bro as a gyro person im so happy this is going mainstream, i bought my first gaming mouse, steelseries rival 300 after seeing your review back in 2016
4 years back I was in the middle of moving to a new place and I hadn't yet brought over my pc setup to my new place. In the first night I didn't have my pc, I decided to download Cod Mobile to my phone. I saw everyone was talking about gyro controls so I gave it a shot. All I can say is it felt so much like using a mouse because I used my right wrist to do all the fine aiming. In that first night I hit max competitive rank in warzone mobile all because my mouse aim pretty much carried over to gyro controls. Can 100 percent vouch for gyro controls.
Thats interesting. I was playing with doing the fine aim with one hand too. Later i switched to using left or right hand, depending on the direction where i want to aim. I think Gyro is a little bit like a maritial art, where some people only fight with one stance and there a people who fight with both stances,, orthodox and southpaw.
4:45 - funny jibb mentioned that, this is something I found myself doing when I initially switched to a larger mousepad so I can play at a lower sensitivity. I started at using like 1/3 of the mousepad's space, and I almost instinctively started using the entire pad without even noticing.
Jibb Smart is amazingly eloquent! I doubt I would be interested in gyro technology if it wasn't him explaining things in the manner that he did.
Oh that's very kind of you to say! Thanks :)
Borderlands 2 on PS Vita (RIP) had ADS gyro aim in 2014. I don't understand how this is not a standard today.
Nintendo is really the only company whose fan base knows the benefits of gyro, and across the board supports it
And also mobile gaming I am using gyro in pubg m from 2018 sad to see even in 2025 gyro aiming is not standard in console gaming trust it is game changing specially in mobile I don't use in console but mobile we can easily compete with pc with keyboard and mouse and I also test it one on my friends in pubg m emulator on pc I am on mobile with gyroI beat him easily with 4 points @@lunchtreyy
Ohhh... It take so long, but finally! The video I was waiting for...
I play mainly with gyro for quite some time now (2017) and it's works wonders.
For me it was really easy to master gyro aim, very intuitive and natural and since I have some difficulty to find a good mouse here where I live it was a god send. Also I'm kinda curious about things and Jibb's software is pretty fun to play around.
I even have some videos playing CPMA against high difficulty bots.
Thanks for the support! I think that it's means a lot for the gyro community.
Gyro being widely adopted for FPS is one of my biggest wishes for gaming. It would solve so many issues and might genuinely change the whole shooter genre for the better. However I don't believe it will ever happen :c
The big issue is that Xbox doesn't support it. Which means for anything cross-platform isn't going to push gyro.
@@OmairArif the problem is that even if xbox fully adopts it. It would only be one of the hurdles. Another problem would be aim assist.
Most(if not all) of the popular fps games would have to reduce aim assist to a useless level or remove it entirely.
@justthere845 yes, but that is a transition that can only start once a viable alternative to aim assist (gyro aim) is available to cross platform devs. Nintendo has already done that transition in their bubble.
The thing is that even if we get gyro in the next gen Xbox, the Xbox series consoles will probably continue to be supported long into the next gen, similar to how the Xbox one has had continued support for years. So realistically this transition is 6+ years away.
I'm so glad gyro is getting way more coverage as of recently, I've been using it in splatoon for almost 9 years now and I know many don't like it at first but the potential it has is beyond of just stick aim, I think how splatoon handles gyro is well made since you fully aim with gyro and use your right stick to look around only horizontally, while also having a dedicated button to reset your aim to wherever your character is facing. As said in the video it's adviced to have the right stick sensitivity cranked up wich most pleople do in splatoon. I'd really love to see it get implemented in more games since using steam to mimick mouse input with gyro just doesn't feel as good.
This is one of the main reason why I love playing on the Steam Deck not only is it more immersive moving near 1:1 but also with the screen accurately is cool as hell.
The really cool thing as well is that it only activates gyro when you lightly press on the right analogue stick, as in a capactive button to trigger it making micro adjustments when needing it and use the right analogue to well play norrmally. Its so nice an intuitive to use when aiming and not randomly triggering it when you're just moving around. And way more accurate and satifying than having to rely on aim assist where the game plays for you.
Top-notch guest! Kudos to him for making the gyro sens a meaningful unit of measure. I wish there was some kind of EU regulation that forbade the sale of games without proper units for FOV and sens, haha.
I love gyro and have used it for 300+ hours. I switched to have a better gaming posture and less pain in neck. I’ve tried many configs and I find the easiest way to get good control is to have only one input for the camera, gyro. A gyro off button (the right trigger) also frees up the right stick and gives access to 4 more inputs.
I find it easier because When you use two different inputs, stick and gyro makes it feel like two different parts of the brain work at the same times. And to do precise 180 turns like you need in quake gyro only is easier to get into muscle memory and more intuitive.
The lowest gyro sens I can play quake comfortably is 4.3. And 0.6 for the aim down site. So 4.3 turns in game for a 360 with the controller. I use the same gyro sens for valorant and it works really well. I don’t use acceleration but I’m curious to see if it could make it even more efficient and precise.
Btw. I bought the razor controller you showed in the beginning of the video. If you turn fast it flippes out like a really cheap mouse in fast movements.
Also, Steam has really good gyro settings. Wich can be used for almost any game.
Thank you for a great video!!!
Acceleration is really good imo. It let's you have low sensitivities for precise aiming and high sens for flicking.
I play on 2 minimum and 20 maximum for my sens and I don't even use the right stick anymore.
@@justarandomperson3700I will look into it! 🙌
you should look up the input labs alpakka. it's the only controller i know of that uses gyro as the only camera input, and it replaces the right stick with an 8-way hat and a scroll wheel
I use gyro with acceleration too. 4x liniar acceleration. But i play with regular sticks together. Your brain will learn how to track enemys with the stick with Gyro together. But you need good stick control skill to get good with that. But when you reach the point where you get good with the sticks too, gyro gaming will be more comfy, because you have much less work with your wrists now. I play Quake, apex, all kind of fps games very good.
I've been a person that was gaming on a console for most of my 23 and a half years of life, but a genre I bounced off was shooters. It was something I was interested in, but outside of a few title, it really didn't click for me until I played BotW almost 5 years ago. Gyro made shooters (and other genres) click with me because I was able to have more direct control of my aim, plus with a sensitivity high enough I can also use the face buttons without clawing. I can never go back to stick aiming, it's the equivalent of going from mouse aiming to keyboard aiming.
As a PC-player - this is honestly brilliant!
I've always been frustrated with the "X/Y axis", and the robotic movement of an 'analog' stick.
This was fascinating and a great idea for a video. I never gave gyro much thought, but this made me want to try it.
I actually liked the Gyro aiming mode when I tried it years ago on my Steam controller.
And I knew right away with enough patience and experience, it can be superior aiming style.
I'm still using the steam controller
@@HollowRick Me too.
Splatoon taught me the way of gyro....MZ1 v2 when?? ;)
Stick-flick gyro has been an interesting development. I haven't tried it yet myself, but I probably should. The topic really makes me wonder how far the whole thing could go. How long before discord servers, and forums of gamers are hyping up the new gyroart 3395 sensor for their fav gamepad shape? Great video, RJN! Very well thought out.
IIRC Killzone 2 had gyro aim during ADS. It was fantastic and as a KBM player I was shocked at how accurate I could be.
I only game with gyro nowadays. One pro tip if you own a dual sense controller. You can actually use a strip of aluminium foil from the kitchen, fold it to a thin strip and tape it between the right side of the touchpad and the middle between the four buttons. Then in steam you set right touchpad touch to gyro activation. That way you can you gyro ratcheting without loosing a button. It's kinda like the same concept as the Alpakka controller. If you like this solution but would like to improve, just order copper tape and place your gyro activation where youd like.
This needs to become the standard, I've been using Gyro aim in Call Of Duty MW it's amazing.
Excellent video, RJN. Gyro is definitely the natural progression of controller aim, but I have concerns about how it could successfully be implemented when the controller user base has been coddled with essentially a soft-aimbot for so long. Like with everything, some people would adapt to it naturally and quickly become proficient with the control scheme, while others will be forced to face an uncomfortable reality on what their true skill level is with aim assist turned off. I won't mince words about this - modern FPS players are soft ass bitches. They're either going to complain about Gyro endlessly, convincing each other that there's something wrong with it at a fundamental level, or they're going to flock to companies like cronus to try to claw back the competitive advantage that they used to enjoy.
Need a version 2 of the steam controller, big picture mode on steam lets you use gyro for any game that doesn’t natively support it. I tried to get good with gyro but I need way more time with it lol
The elephant in the room as well: Xbox controllers don't have gyro. Microsoft PLEASE add gyro to your controllers.
17:01 You can do the rocket jump set ups that you do on gyro.
I got the achievement for completing the rocket jump tutorial in Quake Live recently using only gyro.
Something that still isn't easy for just anyone to finish on mouse.
I would be super impressed if someone could rocket jump like I do by using gyro... it requires so much accuracy at high speed. Maybe I'll learn it enough to be able to try it 🤔
@@RocketJumpNinjaYou could probably learn it in a week. Your style and how you use gyro is up to you.
Do you use flick stick, gyro only with ratcheting, or traditional analog in tandem with gyro? I personally find the latter better for quake when it comes to b-hopping since the continuous movement of analog camera movement helps with b-hop acceleration, but that doesn't mean you'll find it comfortable.
After the first week of figuring it out, you'll probably spend a month exploring your settings before you find something comfortable to use as a baseline. Everything after that is gonna be fine tuning until you finally settle on a sensitivity and control scheme that works for you.
For quake, my control scheme has all weapons on the face buttons (X,O,□,∆) and I have a mode shift layer for a second set of weapons. I feel it's very beneficial to have them there since your right thumb will be free of the right stick for aiming to be able to weapon swap easier since the gyro makes up for having to aim with the stick all the time with traditional control schemes.
All the major weapons are on the top layer. The unholy Trinity, rockets, rail and lightning, and the gauntlet for quick n cheeky humiliations. Lol.
The second layer I activate with either a paddle or a trigger, and that lets me select the rest of the weapons, shotty on rail, machine gun on lg, and plasma on rockets. Nades on gauntlet because I couldn't think of anywhere else to put it. 乁| ･ 〰 ･ |ㄏ
Just giving you ideas on what to try if you do go with this.
I and other people in the gyrogaming subreddit or discord would be happy to help you tune and mold your style if you decide to go through with this and have questions about anything.
As an Xbox to PC convert this is extremely interesting. I really love vr shooter games and genuinely feel they've aided in my own understanding of handling of firearms this is eerily adjacent.
I was waiting for you to cover this topic.
I tried gyro a few times on apex and really wasnt clicking for me. But I got so frustrated because I wanted to play other games but is so hard with stick, mainly because a lack of AA and coming from a mnk first before controller, wasnt really a fan of AA even after years of playing controller. My goal was to play any game semi competitively with a controller without aim assist, and gyro is the answer for now. So I decided to really practice gyro. I've been using it and had gotten allot better at it although on a phone, but I believe its a good starting point. Allot awkward at first, but hey, I remember when the first time I played a shooter with a mouse, I couldn't aim for shit. So really its just a matter of patience and consistency also gyro needs to be publicize more intuitively.
My personal favorite controllers for gyro are the Dualsense Edge and the Steam Controller.
The trackpad is a steep learning curve, but quite rewarding. Dualsense Edge has a pretty high polling rate on the gyro, as well as back buttons.
id heard gyro aim was pretty good from a friend who plays splatoon but never realised just how good it was until solarlights video showed using it in tf2 where i really was amazed
flick stick + gyro should be the future for controller aiming
Is normal stick +gyro good too? 🥺👉🏿👈🏿
I don't like flick stick. I use fast sticks+ gyro
@@bluefiredemon448yeah, there is nothing wrong with that.
@@bluefiredemon448 Yes defenetly. I play tlike that for years now and im top fraging in all kind of fps games.
you should do a video like this about trackballs, they seem like a cool alternative to mouses for people with wrist problems
Also underrated
Esports allowing computer assisted aiming is a joke
These are things game publishers pushed for not esports orgs. Remember esports don’t own the games so they have to abide by the rules meaning if they want AA allowed so their league is more accessible then the esports orgs can only choose to abide by their rules or turn the game down which people hate to see so they just accept it for the fans that want to see the game at a competitive level. But because leagues are making less and less money publishers are realizing this and nerfing AA or coming out with games that have less. Don’t worry, raw input esports is coming back
This is just great video! I discovered gyro when I was trying out Steam Controller and used it for steering in F1 game years ago.
I think that racing games are another great way to introduce people to gyro as you don’t have to combine it with thumbstick or use gyro off button and just simply turn the controller.
Thanks to gyro I was able to enjoy Assetto Corsa, which is great game, just not very suited to thumbsticks. Gyro solved that for me. It is also so much cheaper and versatile than dedicated steering wheel and pedals sets.
It's funny, I remember as a kid playing driving games, we'd always turn the controller in the direction we were steering, thinking it would help turn the car more. I think everyone who's ever used a controller can relate to that! In that sense, gyro controls are a great evolution. I use gyro all the time on my Steam Deck, but not as much on my Lenovo Go, since I'm more focused on learning mouse control-and mostly just the mouse, as I use the joystick like a keyboard.
When it comes to gyro, I mainly use it in handheld mode. I’ve tried using it with a controller, and while it works sometimes, I struggle to fully get the hang of it. I feel like I need the screen right in front of me to make it work best. Controllers and handhelds are just completely different in terms of how they feel and function. The sensory systems vary a lot between devices-take the PS5 sensor versus the Steam Deck, Lenovo, or Nintendo sensors, for example. They all have different tweaks, dead zones, and sensitivities, which makes it hard to have a one-size-fits-all setup.
Takes a month ti convert your thumb stick "skill" to gyro. Gyro is much more immersive the more you use it the morr you want to take it to the next level with ratcheting and flick stick
We need more gane with it and less aim assist in all games.
The gyro off button is missed in many games, looking at you Helldivers 2 and Deathloop
One problem is that Xbox controllers still lack gyro support, meaning a significant portion of console players can't even experience it.
Well still the large majority has access to Gyro controls.
@@MrRonskimost people that use controller use Xbox. PC gaming is dominated by Xbox controllers because Microsoft owns windows and Xbox, so most games have native Xinput support, the same Xinput support that doesn’t have gyro. Most people don’t even know what gyro is, and if they have an idea it’s dancing around like on the Wii. Xbox is holding the industry back.
@@MarioMario-vy4bi
Yeah but Xbox consoles are still the only platform that is fully locked out of native gyro. Every other platform has access to it. Only way to get gyro on Xbox is third party attachments or leaving xbox.
MS could do a Simple controller update + software changes and then almost everyone has access to gyro
I think there is something called amory X that you can click on to a xbox controller to get gyro.
@@MarioMario-vy4bi the difference is that pc isn't locked out of other options like xbox does
Real nice video, very informative, thanks 👍
This would be epic for driving or flying games where you aim as well not only with the vehicle, but shooting in directions other than the driving direction. I want that for Warhammer 40,000: Speed Freeks and GTA Online.
You can configure your controller for that in steam input.
a tipp for the sensitivity. From what i saw, good gyro gamers on YT using a sens from like 6x to 8x rotations in game for 1x full 360 rotation with the controller. (without acceleration). good players with liniar acceleration use like 4x rotation wich goes up to 8x with quick hand movement. (my favourite) Works awesome. And i recomment the default deadzones for gyro in steam input. I know deadzone sounds bad. But imo its a big benefit. Using no gyro deadzone feels like using a ultralight mouse on a glas mousepad. And with deadzone it feels like a cloth mouse pad with good stopping power.
Can you share the name of these players?
@@ggs1821 Sorry for the late answer. The names are :
Gyrojesus, Japa, iHardscope, minusZZERO, Getdunked, NoMisZx
Gyrojesus and Japa are the ones, who use acceleration. I think ihardscope too.
The gyro clips in this video look like mouse indeed. Even more controlled tbh (the 3:53 flick, to take just one example from here)!
And it makes sens(e), aiming with 2 hands (stabilizing each other) holding an ergonomic object (very human-like) *has* to be better than 1 damn unstable finger on a wobbly stick propped up in the air. And also better than scraping a plastic egg over a piece of cloth, sadly. It's actually obvious now that I look at it and think about it (will stay MnK, no matter what comes, but yea 😅).
Whenever I tested gyro on friends console it felt amazing (and I passionately *hate* playing any shooter with controller, due to being a complete noob with the right joystick).
Wtf is wrong with most controller players not using it tho 💀 6:28 is the way to go pbly.
Very interesting video, great interview & ideas & clips, thanks for making & being open minded! 🏆💯
ive been using gyro aiming through steam input for years well when the game works with it. I wish they were natively put into games more. I found people tend to assoicate gyro as cheap wii gimmick or have never heard of it
Very cool Video and topic! I am intrigued to try it out for cs2 or COD.
a gyroscope was part of the playstation controller since 2006, so why is it only now that we get gyro aim????
This looks so cool i would love this
I'm a PC player, and nerve problems in my wrist now make it impossible for me to play my favorite FPS games with a mouse. I can still use a controller, but precise stick-aiming is painful. I would love to use gyro controls to be able to play all my favorite games again.
check out trackball, it might be easy on your wrist and you might be able game with it like a mouse
I always thought gyro controls were just a gimmick and I tried it years ago and didnt like it but after trying that aperture desk job game on the steam deck it made me realize how good gyro could be if it was implemented properly.
Something I've thought about in regards to controllers recently is if something like rapid trigger could be implemented for analog sticks, making input stop when returning to neutral would probably be really beneficial if it could be implemented
I wouldnt get rid of the sticks. I use sticks with gyro. Removing the right stick would be like playing with m/k, but only with my wrist and without the rest of the arm.
Remember that Gyro was automatically on the PS Vita with Uncharted. I really had to fight muscle memory vs intuition, and on such a small screen did make it all extra uncomfortable.
I don't mind trying again but then rather on a normal TV or Monitor screen to see if it actually works.
But when I switched from M&K to controller in Rocket League it took about 2 months for me. My Muscle memory is stronger then my fortitude. Eventually it did click.
Still a process of frustration.
30 minutes of a video by Rocket Jump Ninja ABOUT gyro ? I'm in
I don't understand why Sony doesn't push gyro aim further, it works SO WELL even in non shooter games on Switch. Back then I've completed the Tomb Raider reboot with Steam Input, triggering the gyro when I aim with the bow and it felt like BoTW, just wonderful.
There are even more things to do, with flick stick and such. I'm sure that flick stick COULD be an advantage over mouse and keyboard. That would allow for crossplay to be truly great. No need for aim assist or whatever, controllers would just be different, but not unfair because you would still be able to play with gyro on PC if you want
Most games don't even have true crossplay, as console players will not be able to get in PC lobbies unless they're tagging with a PC friend.
Microsoft needs to implement gyro in xinput, we need native support on PC and that will be a step. Sony will not have to do much because they already have a gyro, but they're just followers and not many devs are using it because Playstation gamers mostly don't care. Nintendo gamers are real about it but because it's online service is sub-par and there's not much crossplay, well .....
I do remember some people complaining about Switch players aiming better in OW2, but their game runs at 30 fps lol so that doesn't make a big difference. Hopefully with the Switch 2 things will change, we'll have more multiplayer games on it, running better (like maybe Valorant on console ? I'm definitely sure that on this game, gyro will have a BIG advantage over aim assist)
Heard bits and pieces about gyro controls over the years from DS4/PS4, Switch, Steam deck etc and have barely used it myself but it does seem like it has a lot of potential. Micro adjustments vs sticks for example (without aim assist) would surely be much better and more natural. 9:50 I remember stuff like this 20+ years ago, people who aren't gamers find twin sticks very difficult and unintuitive, more than likely operating one at a time or barely using the right stick, if at all. Operating multiple axes at the same time when you've never done it is a very weird experience, very similar to people who've never played PC games using m&k for games for the first time. Tangential but it's like the younger gen only using touch devices not being used to PCs, file systems, how they work etc - very little if any experience using other input devices and many have no idea what they're doing
Gyro god!! very interesting view
I'm surprised neither of you mentioned capacitive sensors in the sticks like the Steam Deck. So the sticks (or trackpads) know when your finger is on them. Gyro can be enabled only when touching the right stick for instance, so you can let go to recenter. It's a much more elegant solution than a dedicated gyro-off button.
16:05 SOLDAT MENTIONED
I literally became a man while playing that game back in 2006~07. Goated game for getting good at aiming.
I started as a gamepad player as a wee little child and I remember mouse and keyboard controls being wholly unintuitive. I can't even remember the point where they started feeling normal and how I learned them. Of course, I can't remember at all what it was like to learn pad either.
I've been trying to remember how I felt about mouse and keyboard too... I know I started out on keyboard only in games like DOOM and Duke Nukem 3D Atomic, then had the option of adding mouse but didn't feel right... then Quake came along and if my memory serves, I just somehow played perfectly fine with it? Surely there was an adjustment period...
@@RocketJumpNinja My earliest mouse memory is of playing CoD 4 and not really getting WADS movement and using the arrow keys, and aiming with the keyboard because the mouse didn't make sense.
Fast forward not even a few years and I'm playing competitive FPS online. *shrug*
I can't remember a time when keyboard and mouse felt unintuitive here. First touches were BF1942, CoD2 and Halo: CE at around 10 years old.
I can relate with him using quake to quage his health like I do with tf2. When something's off it really shows when you're doing what you love
Ever since I first tried gyro aiming in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, I haven't been able to go back to controller aiming without it. I still prefer mouselook for most shooters, and for virtually all first person games, just for comfort, but gyro is a solid second pick. I especially like the Steam Deck's implementation, where gyro only activates when you have your thumb on the stick or trackpad, which very elegantly allows you to quickly recenter. If gyro aiming becomes the new standard for consoles, I hope that feature comes with it, but sadly, I don't think it ever will become standard until Microsoft adds it to Xbox, but if they do, gaming will be a lot nicer.
Also, a lot of newer include dedicated accessibility settings. I bet a lot of players would be too proud to use heavy aim assist if it was explicitly stated to be an accessibility feature, even better if the setting calls itself out as being for people who can't use gyro to help guide them to it
Gyro could have great potential for one-handed players.
As a good mouse player I'd love to learn this so I can find motivation to start play more causual competetive shooters on the TV in the living room. Right now I can't get away from quake and the computer, never using my PS5.
I used gyro on mobile fps games glad to see this discussion
oh I yearned for this
5:29 Which is exactly why I hardly even bother with gyro controls. That missing control feature is so much more common in games I tried that it doesn't even feel worth getting into the matter at this point in time. As a matter of fact, it completely eludes me how a studio can miss the absolute necessity of offering that functionality.
Or you can one hand it by using a control stick/console stick (what ever the name is). Being able to adjust the sensitivity, your quick jolts act like mouse movement while having a control like feel and most importantly 'ergonomics'. There were many wonky variations when I was a kid but probably the most modern one I came across has been the 3M version.
The controllers need a whole redesign. These people have the side of their index finger pressing on the left dpad. That's not natural. Xbox doesn't even bother implementing gyro and charges 120$ for objectively worse features. If we need the game to aim for you then that means there's something wrong with the controller not the game.
yooo rjn talking about gyro hell yeah
Any gyro doubters can try to break my Aimlabs Gridshot record with sticks. 😁
To the argument of how to introduce gamers to gyro, I'll share my own experience.
I was introduced to gyro with the Steam Controller, so I was using a touchpad instead of a stick, and having the gyro only active when touching the pad. That method is much more intuitive if you are coming from mouse and keyboard, in the sense that you can actually lift your thumb from the pad and recenter the controller, just like you would with a mouse.
In my opinion, it is also a more elegant solution to the 'Big movements vs Small movements' debate, since you can have a high sensitivity on the touchpad and a smaller one on the gyro, so those roles become easily defined. The comparison that I like to make for mouse users is that you use your thumb on the touchpad for movements you'd do with your forearm/arm, while the gyro does the ones you'd use your wrist for.
Don't stick to sticks. Give Gyro a spin!
Aim assist is one of the worst things to happen to gaming.
steam controller gyro aiming was great, i could hang on cod4 mp (zero controller support) need them to make a 2.0
The main reason gyro isn't more competitive is that no one has made a one-handed Joy-Con-style controller with good gyro capabilities. If you try rotating a regular controller, you'll notice how limited the motion is. This limitation forces players to use high gyro sensitivity, which makes flick shots inconsistent. From what I have seen, that’s really the only drawback of gyro aside from limited software support.
I have my gyro sensitivity on full with reWASD and I never have issues doing flick shots.
@CandarianGaming I am talking about competitive level flick shot not shakey one. You can watch ihardscope which is considered to have the best aim on gyro, but still his flick shot is not clean nor accurate as mnk.
@@ohpeep3723 There's nothing impressive about ihardscope's aiming, he's just good at counter strike.
@@CandarianGaming Tell that to gyro community. Or even better upload your video then.
@ohpeep3723 I've never anyone seen anyone say he's the best at aiming, in regards to his flicks and I've got enough videos on gyro as it is
If gyro-aiming catches on I guess we could see games that seperate the camera from the aiming kind of like the Wii did. Also on a side note: claw-grip on controllers look really unergonomic and there should probably be more buttons on the bottom.
No, I think the view model/reticle being separate from the camera was a factor that alienated a lot of people from shooters on the wii.
Yes and on top. It could easily be four on top on each side.
It would depend on the implementation, but freezing camera rotation while aiming can get OP pretty quick. If it's the kind where it momentarily becomes a 2D game where you select a pixel on the screen, and the game turns to fire at what's underneath that pixel in 3D space. Then you'll want to keep targets near the edge of your screen to exploit that they'll take up more pixels (this technique is already good for scouting in games with large distances). That's how it worked in 007: Nightfire, haha!
@Visstnok yeah but you also loose field of view. Having your aim tied to camera means that you are looking around more and can see more things going on around you.
collab of the century here man
There was a gyro aiming method specifically for pc which I can't really remember the name for. However the way it worked was you use the tight stick to change where hou are facing and the usengyron to actually aim. Basically the right stick would only rotate your character, it was insanely cool.
I would l love to see a AAA crossplay game ship with no aim assist, and good default gyro controls. We also have to remember that not only do we need good gyro options, we need the defaults to be good too. Maybe people will not take the time to set up the controls, but might get used to it if they are already at a good starting point. Give as few excuses to give up as possibile.
Good defaults are important, and also a good tutorial for how to use it, and what each setting means.
A lot of implementations expect the player to already know what it all means, and a casual player most likely won't take the time to research online or experiment.
@@justarandomperson3700 yep, I think this is the biggest hurdle to pass before it becomes mainstream.
gyro in fps mobile gaming is actually fun and easy, i wish it is easy to use in pc games
It is pretty easy to use on pc.