Just to clarify, I'm not switching to a controller permanently or anything, but I did want to defend this rather fun and wacky way of playing the game. This video took a few months to make, I hope you all liked it. Edit: I have uploaded a starter config for the Dualsense controller, in case you feel like trying it. I'll put more detailed instructions in the description. Put this link in your browser steam://controllerconfig/440/2801222110
I'm enjoying the recent resurgence in interest for controllers in tf2, but something surprisingly absent in all of this is a mention of koymu. He's a spy main who uses stick controls to play spy, and he definitely hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.
I love how this video was "tf2 on steamdeck is bad lmao" and solar taking it personally and spending like 2 years getting good with gyro aiming in tf2 to make a 21 minute 46 second video to flip off reddit. solar never change
@@helium-379 No. I use gyro aiming ever since I got my Steam Controller in 2017, I absolutely love gyro and a couple months ago I completely switched from mouse to gyro, training my gyro aim, despite me playing so much better with a mouse that it'll take some time to get back to my level on gyro. And still, I will confidently say, gyro is NOT better than mouse... but it's up there! Literally, I think we can confidently say that gyro is just as good as a mouse, not worse! Now, there are indeed things that gyro has an advantage over mice, but it still doesn't make it actually better: flick stick's ability to flick in any direction instantly is pretty much infinitely better than what mouse can do - flick stick has infinite velocity, it's instant, while mouse is unfortunately restricted by laws of physics not letting you teleport it; some people swear by movement on controller, saying that it's much better on mnk; extensive gamepad configuration sometimes can achieve something you could never on mnk; and most importantly - gyro is easier to get better at, the same exact person with no previous mouse or gyro experience will play better with gyro in the same time, it feels more natural and is easier to master (on higher levels of aiming - no difference, both equally really hard to get better at, so much so that the difference evens out).
funny enough, controllers were used by demoknights before gyro was a thing - since the turning restrictions of the demo charge didn't apply to analog sticks, you had demoknighs using controllers to trimp back in 2012.
The thing is, there's such a stigma against gyro aim and other """ guimicky""" controller input methods that most people probably haven't given them a chance even if they had the opportunity. Plus there's tons of people who have never used a controller capable of it. So the vast majority of people think of stick aiming when they think of playing on a controller.
As someone who only saw the beginning of gyro with the PS3 Controller. Yeah. I legit only saw it was a gimmick that was stupid, poorly implemented, and would never really be worth putting time into remembering the existence of.
@@DarthSears was there any ps3 game that allowed you to aim with the six axis? Of the top of my head the only two uses that I can remember were aiming grenades in Uncharted and moving the hurricane weapon in Ratchet and Clank. Definitely gimmicky in this case, but that hardly compares to the capacities of the controllers shown here.
Splatoon 1 and 2 convinced me gyro aiming can work. It takes some used to, but I mean is it really any less or more naturl than pressing keys and flinging a mouse around?
@@berni1011 it's definitely more natural than using a stick, given that developers literally have to cheat on your behalf (aim assist) for it to be bearable
Hey there! Splatoon player here. Gyro aiming is infact probably one of the best methods for playing shooters with controllers. Most comp players for Splatoon play Gyro on various levels of sensitivity, and I can confirm that it just makes shooting with maximum efficiency, especially in a third person environments, much easier for the player. Top tier splatoon players can perform crazy stunts such as doing an insane 180 flick to a falling target behind them while playing the charger/sniper weapon with the power of gyro. Thank you for shedding light on this [ honestly ] more optimal way to play shooters with controllers for people who are familiar with mouse!
for those who don't have a controller, but wants to walk: use +strafe command. by default its a bind on left ALT. to walk, you need to hold your +strafe bind and move your mouse
But then how does Gmod do it? You can walk slowly and aim. It's either other command made especially for Gmod, or just Strafe but remade for Gmod Purposes.
@@BaderAljahwari1 If you don't have new technology (XBox 360 controller) then you sadly have to get a remote controller (shown in a video), unless you have wired version of controller. PS3 or other, I don't really know, but probably Bluetooth or USB cable is enough.
Gyro sure has some insane potential. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see a mouse with a joystick where the thumb is to allow for the 360* turns to happen.
There is one that actually exists. The Asus ROG Chakram indeed has a stick, and Steam actually released an update that adds config support for it, so you could probably use Flick Stick on it. However, it's quite expensive.
I''ve seen controller and keyboard (mostly for flight sims), but certainly never joystick and mouse Sounds like a logical setup tho, since the main downside of mouse is the lack of precision movement
@@rompevuevitos222 Because Mouse+keyboard users are renowned for their use of Aim Assist and general inability to aim- no, that's the joystick's issue. Joysticks act much faster than a mouse, but a mouse is far more precise than a joystick. Most if not all shooters for consoles have aim assist to some degree, whereas most if not all PC shooters don't. Precision in a shooter is a must have and it makes sense that systems would be put in place to fix a hardware issue. For the Controller you need aim assist as you cannot move just a pixel over, whereas for the mouse you need to turn up the sensitivity in order to spin faster.
Ever since I own a Steam Controller, I no longer doubt the gyro aiming advantage. Nintendo have fully embraced it with their Splatoon series and few third-party games have it as an option. While, Sony is slowly getting there and Microsoft never bother to give gyro a chance. My next challenge is mastering flick stick.
microsoft just wants cheap controllers. ..and whatever that elite controller bulls*** is, like come on that isn't going to give you an advantage in a shooter.
if Microsoft would give it any thought they could've made gyro aim a default feature for over a decade. They own both Xbox and WIndows, so if they would've added the feature as part of the XInput standard, we would've had gyro aim in both platforms since at least 2005. That still doesn't mean that games have to support it, but at least it would be part of the hardware and thus an option.
I’ve played controller my whole life and this is the first time I’ve ever heard of and seen Gyro in action, I’m absolutely blown away by this. Thank you for this video
As a Splatoon player, I'm extremely grateful for you taking the time to tell people about motion controls, and extremely intrigued by the new motion control options that I've never seen before. Great video!
I think fortnite also has built-in flick stick controls aswell, and boomerang x but that's all of the games I'm familiar with that has those natively and on the switch
The problem with gyro is that outside of Nintendo it's underused and it still holds a negative stigma from the Wii era, even though that was for waggle shakes and not aiming. What you did with the six sense is similar to how fps games were on the Wii, and I think it's actually even better than gyro, the only thing that it would need, as you said, is being able to use the stick to turn the camera for big turns.
Honestly, I don't get why Wii has such a negative stigma. It's biggest flaw is that sunlight could mess with your controller input, because of it using infrared for your pointer on screen, but bluetooth for the rest of the gyro. The gyro itself works just fine, a lot of developers were pretty bad at using it, but I played Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 recently with it (and tried without), and Wiimote is the equivalent to gyro aiming that the Wii has, and it worked really well when my blinds were down.
Also not to mention a certain game that's quite famous for allowing a certain handheld console to be hacked to allow the user to run unauthorized custom software.
19:17 Oh my God it wasn’t just a hand, it were ARMS I never tried out a controller in fps before. In Korea, PC is the platform most of the people enjoys the game with cause of abundance of PC cafes, so. It was very Interesting to see the other side. Great work!
On that last controller. That aim method is called “free aiming” and a set of older console games used it. It’s not bad but most of them used hybrid aim systems with really heavy aim assist/auto aim.
Shame sometimes developers just make the gyro input a glorified stick (with shit like acceleration and dead zones), killing the entire purpose of gyro. For it to perform better, you always need to set it to raw mouse input
It's an odd place to have learned about gyro aim, but I tried PUBG Mobile when it was still new and it had a gyro aim feature that introduced me to it and it felt so smooth (even though it was just a mobile game lol)
@@hudsonator7259 Outrageously hard to master, far more than mouse or sticks on top of being actively unfun to learn. Plenty of devs that want to make it the standard control scheme, but it's not happening any time soon, if ever.
Solarlight... thank you for making this video. Some time ago, I lost a lot of muscle in my arm and my hand. I found out I had something on my brain that was pushing down on the part of the brain that controls the functions to my arm and hand. It's been two years since that day, and I'm still unable to play any game with both hands. I'm only capable of using my left hand to control everything and to have my right hand weakly grasp the controller for some support. After watching this video, I was actually in disbelief. I was really amazed. It brought me pure joy that maybe, just maybe... I can play video games like normal again. Maybe I could play games with my friends like I used to. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you for making this video🥲
Hey dude, look up Asus ROG Chakram. It's a mouse with a built in stick like on a controller. I don't know how it'd work exactly but you could walk with the stick and aim with the mouse, from just one hand. Depending on how capable your other hand is, you could use it for basic stuff like jumping, switching weapons, calling for medic,... Anyway, I'm sure that with how the technology is going, you can figure something out. Hell you can even get foot pedals for certain binds. Good luck dude.
@@emrebaskocak thanks man, I'll certainly look into it, and the idea of foot petals do sound like a good idea, though I might have to pad my room just to make sure I'm not making a crazy amount of sound🤣😂
I think it's kind of hilarious how the controller explicitly meant for the console on which TF2 was originally played ends up sucking the hardest at being used for the game.
Fun fact about the Razer Hydra: One of the first Steam Controller prototypes is an Xbox 360 controller hacked in half with a Hydra controller taking up the missing spot. It's very cursed.
I looked this up and holy shit, that’s amazing honestly. Still very cursed, but I had a good laugh over this. Definitely looks like the type of controller you’d get at a friends house when you play co-op games.
@@starryari2389 That was the only good thing about the wii u, the pro controller was an obvious purchase so with the monitor controller alongside it meant everyone had a good controller!
@@alex.g7317 I know this is a year old but I honestly just searched "steam controller prototype", went to images, and scrolled a little, but it also seems like there's a whole list of steam controller prototypes so you could probably look through anything that looks like those as well hehe
As I gyro user, I will counter by saying gyro aiming is very bad. it is more addictive that meth and will result in people all around you in shooter games dying very quickly.
I played warframe on switch and noted how the motion controls allow for far more precise aiming than should be possible with a controller, and I'm glad to see someone else realized that controllers with motion controls are AMAZING for shooters. Excellent video
that's why your mind needs to be opened like this,controller aim is not just about aim assist,it can be far more skill based while also being more viable if devs just gave controllers a chance.
May sound stupid, especially since I’m a complete casual, but if any scene has a dedicated competitive player-base, writing them completely off is kinda spitting in the face of any effort that gets put in,, especially if the reason is due to the input method that gets used.
@@-cactus.raven- problem with console games designed for controllers is that they rely heavily on VERY generous aim assist. As soon as you give people a game that doesn't have ANY assist they deem it unplayable (MAG on PS3 was great example of that, it was one of better multiplayer FPS on that generation of consoles and it died because people just couldn't stomach the raw inputs showing them how much they actually suck). This is why Halo multiplayer was such acclaimed console success and barely anybody gave the shit about the franchise on PC because while for us it was a dumbed down, slower take on Unreal Tournament, console players for the first time were able to play FPS game and not utterly suck at it. In competitive setting you can't really accept these kind of assists and unfortunately, they're not optional but an integrated part of the experience. Hence why each and every console Call of Duty tournament was a pure meme, entirely ignoring here how bad of a competitive experience CoD as a game is.
@@Micromation You reminded me of my thoughts on Quake and arena shooters in general. Always thought the reason the genre died was because of consoles, aim assist doesn't do a whole lot of those games and making predictive shots. Also the movement required on older console controllers was just not possible. Hence the scripting of movement which most fps games have now. With this they seem playable, honestly gives me hope. That being said this controller setup seems very difficult for the majority of people to use and would require such a learning curve it won't catch on.
@@半蔵-x5h it's a new control scheme and people have no muscle memory associated. If you don't put any effort into it, you will never become proficient. If you've never played with mouse, your first time (and probably several dozen hours later) would suck too until you got accustomed and built some muscle memory.
Okay so I'm coming back to this video after nearly a year due to a conversation about controller vs. kbm in shooters, and that bit at 13:07 about your game knowledge applying but having to rebuild muscle memory from scratch reminds me of an experience I had with another game. Back in 2019, I switched from playing Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on a Switch Pro Controller to playing on an all-button arcade-style controller, and that also had a similar initial learning curve where I had no muscle memory but all of my game knowledge. It was a really weird and kinda surreal experience. I'd almost compare it to what it was like getting used to walking again after I had back surgery when I was 15 (long story). Honestly now I kinda wanna learn to play TF2 on controller just because that experience of playing a game I'm already familiar with but have zero muscle memory is genuinely fascinating, and it's something I'd like to experience again.
As someone who recently tried playing Splatoon for the first time, the controls I found most intuitive was to play with the joycons separated from each other. It still acts like one controller, but all of the gyro controls are on the right joycon, making it feel more like a mouse. From that perspective, I can definitely see the appeal of the razer hydra, and if there were something similar (but good) I'd definitely be interested in getting it.
@@ThomasDailey What about this idea: Have a left joycon-like design and a mouse (and some how sync them up). This will give the benefits of a controller (precise stick movement compared to WASD), while you get the benefits of the mouse (camera control in basically all games are enhanced) The only issue I can see is the lack of buttons. But I think this could be worked through by adding more mouse/controller buttons whether that's on the side of the mouse or on the back of the joycon. Ergonomics might be uncomfortable, but not sure until it's tested tbh. plus the controller would be designed better than a joycon which is constrained to the switch's shape.
This is why I believe that gyro controls should be implemented in every game that has aiming to some degree. I love the comodity of playing with a controller, but I absolutely despise everytime I have to aim down something with it. Great vid Solar!
long as they make it better than OW2's. tried playing that on switch and it feels hellish. then again, I didn't try to tweak settings if there were any.
@@poker8086 Looking forward seeing professional counterstrike players using controllers. Aim is very important in cs, i hope they learn this secret... 🤨
@@frog382 nobody is arguing its as good as mouse for high level professional cs lmfao. but for the vast majority of players its absolutely viable once you learn it
@@1venusflytrap You should not compare it to the mouse, since its inevitable people will organise busting of that myth. If you approach it as a upgrade to the existing controller instead, you will not receive the shit. The reality is it is closer to the controller than to a mouse, so just call it for what it is. I actually believe mouse will become obsolete at some point, but its hard to imagine how.
When you started showing off the Razer Hydra gameplay, it looked completely normal to me… then I realized the hundreds of hours playing Metroid Prime with the Wiimote aiming has wired my brain like an absolute goofball
I want to do this now. Idea that popped into my head: if they allowed Spy to be able to move at max speed disguised as every class, controllers would let players attempt to match the movement speed of the heavier classes he’s disguised as, thereby needlessly increasing the skill depth of the game, which I’m all for.
Problem is that would force everyone who takes spy seriously to buy a controller to have disguises that actually fool players. That, or script awkward key inputs at preset speeds for movement.
Was just about to post something about Splatoon but people beat me to it lol. I use the Classic because it reminds me of how chargers in Splatoon play; I just miss the leniency that flick shots have in Splatoon
@@CBaller The Sydney and Classic are currently fighting each other for the title of "favorite Rifle" because they both remind me of Splatoon's Chargers.
I really like the Splatoon school of aiming which involves using a higher sensitivity on the analog stick to make big movements and then a much lower sensitivity on the gyro for precision corrections.
The flick stick is far better, I can tell you that much. You can't beat that level of fine control and the ability to instantly turn to any direction you want with traditional analog movement.
@@Thornskade You can instantly turn to any direction you want without flick stick. Flick stick is a preference, it is not superior to normal motion aim. You can turn around in one frame with properly calibrated motion sensitivity.
I feel like Nerrel’s video on Gyro is one of the most convincing videos on the topic I’ve seen. Definitely recommend if you have skepticisms over motion controls on Controllers
What’s so criminal is that the Daulshock 3 controllers had gyro, which means technically gyro aim could’ve been implemented in so many FPS games (yes I know gyro aim wasn’t too mainstream until the 3DS and Wii U)
The issue here is that while Wii and PS3 had some sort of Gyro option Xbox, which a big part of online console shooters are played on never had any sort of Gyro option.
@@diegomedina9637 I think the problem the OP alluded to, is that no developer even conceived the gyro could be used for aiming. I'm not even sure what the first gyro-aim game was or when it came out.
@@Creshex8 literally no one uwed gyro on ps3 ever. lbp used it to tilt your character around but that was the most useful feature attached to the sixaxis (which isnt even a full 3d sensor as it has just pitch and yaw so no roll), AND IT WAS MAKING FUNNY COTTON MAN TURN HIS HEAD AROUND. some usermade levels in lbp2 also used it but ehhhhhhhhhhhh
@@kellymountain Besides LBP only games I recall using PS3's gyro were Uncharted games & Mirror's Edge when balancing on thin objects. Such an underutilized mechanic. EDIT: I mean games that I own. There's probably more games that use the gyro but I haven't played them.
Ive always believed gyro is the future of console gaming. However it always gets heavy backlash. If you go on forums of people asking why it doesnt have it people respond "because we dont need that gimmicky shit". And if its on by default, most players turn it off without trying it. Because "motion controls bad". Im honestly excited to see steam deck endorse it heavily. Hopefully this will be a new age of gyro. Not just in splatoon and zelda.
@@parknplay8328 I did since I play games on my TV sometimes, and I started playing fps games with gyro once I got ahold of a Steam Controller. I'm not using gyro aim for the heck of it as I maintain that a mouse is still better. My aim on gyro controller has small imprecisions due to the slight jitter of your hands. This jitter is alleviated with a mouse since it rests on a desk, giving it stability, kinda like a gun stock. In that sense, gyro controller aim is a bit like aiming a gun without a gun stock. It's similar to aiming with a stock, but there is definitely less stability to your aim.
oh shit@@corneliuscornwallis I did NOT expect you to reply to that. Yea I'm glad that gyro's getting into more places as an option, but there's still the reputation of Wii-waggle-itis. I kinda figured that with a year-old comment I could swoop on by and mention that the recognition is multi-sided, but I guess this is what I get for being shocked in a reply section: lengthy reasons with beeg text.
I remember first seeing the type of technology intergraded in Splatoon and thought it was brilliant. Took some time to learn, but once I did, I never want to play on a controller without it. I am so happy that more games are getting this feature.
As a PS4 Duelshock 4 player, this video is GOLD. My mind is actually blown, and I had no idea gyroscope aiming was actually viable, it's mostly just tossed around as a joke. The high sensitivity actually makes this possible and flick stick is completely new to me as well. Despite playing with the right stick for 8 years, I've just learned something new. Thanks Solar, and thanks for defending the casual controller plebs!
I played splatoon 1 heavy when it came out on the Wii U and I realized how broken motion aim was pretty early on a lot of people in the community would turn off gyro aiming at the beginning because it was new at the time and people weren't used to it but you would see everyone who wasn't using motion get stomped by people who were
I have always thought gyro controls were pretty good even if I personally prefer a mouse due to being more used to it, it is a shame that the first thing everyone thinks about when they hear "motion controls" is like wii sports swinging a wii thing around when it has so much potential.
The switch controller is how I was introduced to gyro controllers, and while I still prefer a keyboard and mouse, aiming in BOTW with the bow using gyro was amazing! Gyro actually made controllers competitive to PC now!
Actually played with one yesterday, and a few times previously. Gotta say: I aim so much better as most of the classes except sniper, and even that i can just do alright with a huntsman. It takes some getting used to, but its certaintly worth it if you have the opportunity. Oh and a tip: Default nintendo pro controller binds in TF2 are awful, change them immediatly. Theres no default jump bind, but theres a default contracker bind??? Not hard to fix though.
I agree, I've tried using a Switch Pro controller and definitely felt how you could play well with it with practice. But, that's just the thing, it takes practice. A new skill you have to learn. When you have years of experience playing using a mouse and keyboard, you master it, it becomes totally intuitive. Moving to a controller, even with gyro controls, feels awful at first by comparison, since all of that stuff you've learned to do intuitively is gone. You have to learn the controls all over again, which of course means you perform worse, you're busy trying to get used to aiming which distracts you from other important things like spychecking. And because they perform worse when trying it and aren't going to invest the time to actually get good with it, most everyone thinks controllers are garbage.
Honestly, people really sleep on motion controls with controller, it's insane. I personally play on controller lol. I usually use my stick for looking around and for recentering instead of a button.
This was actually crazy informative. Had never heard of gyro aiming etc. Thanks for sharing man, really well put together, researched and presented. Well done.
I played Resident Evil 4 on the Wii and the aiming was fun and very effective. When I got a Switch, I mistakenly thought it was like the WiiMote, and had a pretty wacky period of adjustment as I learned about gyros. I was also always wondering how my PS4 controller could let me use motion control to type on its keyboard without any IR sensor.
You legend. Great work with this video! I've been looking forward to it, and you did not disappoint! It's such a pity the Hydra wouldn't let you turn the camera with the stick 😬 I have a couple of prototypes of games that use gyro for free aim and right stick for camera (optionally even flick stick) and it's such a great combo. Gaming would look so different today if the Wiimote had a stick
I've been wondering what it would be like for dual controllers (like the Hydra or dual joycons) to have one gyro set to normal gyro aim and the second set to free cursor, so you can use both gyros at the same time.
It’s really weird how gyro aim and flickstick end up giving you the jittery aim and the quick 180 flicking of an aimbot, yet still dependent on actual skill to pull off.
@@MaximG. I mean it definitely FEELS like cheating to me. If a keyboard player rebound their arrow keys to face them in fixed directions people would call that cheating
@@notcarbuncle1493 If you can set those settings in game, then it's not cheating, pretty simple. My mouse supports buttons that emulate it spinning in 90 degrees for certain games, that's not cheating either considering it's simply build in by the company, it's just how some devices work.
YOOOO FINALLY When I bring up controllers to people for PC games, they often shake it off by saying 'sticks are bad and not precise', while ignoring the entire point of gyro, or saying its a gimmick and inferior. Glad to see this video explain how a controller can keep up to par with keyboard+mouse, and I personally didnt even know about the flick stick, probably because I use the steam controller for PC games.
Knew it had something to do with gyro. I used to play Splatoon 2 and the difference between stick and gyro is night and day. Even more so when used in combination
I have been a big proponent of Gyro aim for a while now, I consider it a core feature for a controller to have these days and the fact the Xbox Series Controllers lack it is shocking. but its lack of acceptance of even understanding by people isnt just a TF2 problem. part of this is probably due to stigma around motion controles in general left over from the nintendo Wii and its over reliance on Waggle control. People see the Wii and by extension motion controls as a "casual only" thing. And again, the most easy to set up, core PC controller option, the Xbox controller, is at this point the only current gen controller that lacks the feature, meaning most probably dont have access to it.
Seeing that this is the first time I’ve heard people really praising gyro controls or them being talked about at all in recent memory and that most can get on perfectly fine without them it seems obvious why Microsoft doesn’t invest in them. It’s not really required, they already have tons of people on PC using them and they’re in a good position. Maybe next series x version release they might consider implementing them.
You might be right about were the stigma comes from, but honestly, you'd think that most of the people who feel this way have only ever watched a 2009 xbox kinect commercial and are under the impression that waggling your arms about like a noodly cartoon character is, or even ever was, the state of the art. While the Wii often failed to provide a compelling use for its unique controller, I would argue that it succeeded more often than not, at least within the 1st-party library of games. A lot of games on the Wii play... really really well, especially first person shooters. IR pointer aiming is, in my opinion, better than gyro aiming, and possibly even better than mouse aiming. it never looses calibration and gives you a very wide range of movement which maps 1:1 on to your character's movements. Metroid prime 3, one of the first big examples of this type of aiming, came out in august 2007, less than a year after the Wii was released. Other notable early examples of IR pointer aim include resident evil 4 "wii edition" (2007) and sin and punishment 2 (2009). Sega's "The Conduit" (2009) also has great aiming, although I must add the caveat that it is a bad game, and you should definitely play the superior "the Conduit 2" (2011) instead. Regardless, all of these games are well over a decade old at this point. In fact, metroid prime 3 and resident evil 4 "wii edition" are both older than TF2 itself. I get the feeling that if many gamers had actually bothered to play any of these games, they might not have such a negative impression of motion controls as a whole. But they didn't. They never played the games at all. They saw the Wii sports commercials, saw people standing up, and decided that they were right out of there. Or, even worse, they did give the games a chance, but happened to play zelda or mario-- both of which use controller waggling for no good reason, where a button press would have been better-- and abandoned motion controls right then and there. It's tragic, because some of the best motion experiences are, in fact, first person shooters. the IR aiming of the Wii was great, and current-gen gyro aim, while less precise and impressive than the IR pointer, is far better than dual analogue. The Wii is a sword that cut both ways. it offered the best pointing/aiming experience that has ever been available on consoles, and in that has not been equalled or surpassed** by any subsequent mass-market machine. But people also deride it for retarding the acceptance of motion controls by the wider gaming community. I must disagree. The Wii was a machine, nothing more, nothing less. the experiences it provided varied greatly, just like any other games console-- but, in a more pronounced way, because of the new axis of input available for developers. Some devs used them to create novel experiences that were meaningful improvements on older control schemes. Others didn't. Either way, claiming that the Wii is responsible for how people view motion controls gives too much credit to Nintendo's marketing department, and doesn't put enough impetus on gamers themselves, who by-and-large appear to have eschewed thinking critically about the issue and forming their own, nuanced opinions-- instead opting in to a ready-made take, served to them piping hot from the presses of gaming news media outlets everywhere.
@@DallinBackstrom NGL, not mentioning Red Steel 2 is almost a crime. It's the best Wii shooter imo. It nails the FPS mechanics while also oozing with style.
Gyro aiming the bow in BOTW singlehandedly changed my opinion on controllers and motion controls simultaneously. I would still prefer a mouse wherever possible, but it's shockingly effective for something I previously dismissed as a clumsy gimmick. The "flick stick" is something neat I haven't seen before. Clearly there's still room for innovative and *useful* input methods!
i saw flick stick when it was first created and seeing it get as far as it has over the last 2 years has been so awesome, even some console games have official support for it!
It's so good to hear people finally talking about this. I've played splatoon 2 for a good few years now, and after learning how to actually use the motion controls it's amazing how precise you can get. I don't understand why they get such a bad rap.
@@yousorooo Even gyro aim is trash when not implemented properly. It gets too jittery and stuff, like older VR setups used to be. It's headache-inducing for me personally.
The stick flick is one of my fave features because it precisely aims to the direction corresponding to the x and y axis while the z axis is done by the gyro.
Increasing the gyro sensitivity is what I didn't even consider back when I tried to play TF2 with a Steam Controller myself. Therefore, with the default sens I had to move a controller way too much to get anything done, which wasn't playable on anything besides the Heavy.
This reminds me of the good old Splatoon and it’s gyro controls. My first ever fps game I use a gyro, and it was a experience! When you get use to it, it is actually just like the video says. Almost like a mouse but somewhat, “better” as it’s like a physical 3D movement.
as a ex console player who played a lot of battlefield 4, i can say that i directly guessed gyro. not only was that the thing i used when playing bf4, but i liked it so much that it became a default for me. literally recognised the small jitters when using it but damn is it fun! i am impressed tho by how much more you can turn a simple controller into a literal combination of a keyboard and mouse. this is severely awesome :D
The small jitters it picks up makes the Nintendo pro controller technically more competitive, with its short throw triggers. However, I play with a Dual Sense. I know it has the disadvantage of being even more prone to picking up small movements with its long-pull triggers, but I consider it a hidden blessing. Learning to aim with steady hands is a skill you need to learn to handle REAL firearms, among other things. I use it as an opportunity to train my hands to be more steady, and it honestly creates some mini-games in some games you can play with gyro. The biggest example of this is using the bow in Horizon: Forbidden West. You pull back the trigger all the way to draw the bow, then release the trigger to let the arrow fly. For the most long-range shots, the challenge of steadily releasing the trigger could be really tough (when the target is very small). You also have to factor in arrow travel time (turn off aim assist, or the arrows will literally home-in on the targets). Even though it was tough, it was also incredibly fun AND very immersive (you really felt the experience was similar to shooting a real bow). Nothing was more satisfying than nocking an arrow and aiming at an enemy's head which was no larger than the head of a pin, while he was moving on a mount, calculating arrow travel time to lead the shot, and carefully releasing the arrow... to then see the guy spin his head from the impact, and reveal a long arrow sticking out of his head, and fall off his mount. Just an absolute blast. I finished the game on hard, with no aim assistance at all, only gyro. The only challenges I couldn't finish were some of the final arena fights in the later tiers, but that was due to having such a short allotted amount of time to finish the fights.
Ive always put down gyro controllers because my hands dont really stay still so my aim would just shake everywhere compared to a stick where its just. Yeah
@@Genjink you might be able to fix that issue with steam input, i believe there's a setting where you can set a minimum movement threshold so that your shaking won't actually move the crosshair. if you have to put it too high then it may mess with aiming but it'd be worth messing around with if you're interested
honestly it's disappointing how Sony put work to add gyro to their controllers only for it to barely be used, atleast not for aiming. maybe there's been progress with ps5 games, but idk I don't own one. if only we could all get the bad stigma surrounding gyro from the console community (not Nintendo) to go away..
Honestly, as a comp player I think scout would be very playable with this sort of controller setup. Vertical aiming would maybe be the largest challenge. Lots more big vertical flicks when both enemy soldiers are rocket jumping around like mad lads
I've been playing a whole life with controllers But I can certainly say that DualShock 4's sticks are the most comfortable ones to use in shooters, the dead zone is so tiny that *almost* feels like playing with a keyboard
After playing Splatoon and BOTW all I could think of is "why is gyro aim not a standard in console fps yet!?" Maybe we'll be seeing a shift in the future.
I've started using a controller a lot more because mouse and keyboard is starting to take a toll on my wrists. I wasn't expecting this level of depth in your controller discussion but it helps me find new ways to play the games I love without hurting my wrists! Thanks a bunch for making this video. 💖
Fun fact: A mayflash dolphinbar (a sensor for the wii remote, usually used for wii emulation) can actually let you use a wii remote and nunchuk as a mouse and keyboard. You use the wii remote sensor to aim, and use the nunchuk to move. I never tried fixing my binds and my computer drivers to make playable with tf2, but it's possible to play tf2 with a wii remote, you just gotta set up some stuff, almost like the steam controller settings
another point in favor of flick-stick being legal is that I and many others have around a 2-5 inch 360, which means we can immediately turn around. It looks probably just as sus, but it's just high sens. Also, really cool video! Never knew about gyro aiming. I'm trying to think about how movement might be hindered instead of aim and the first thing I thought off was cancelling movement while strafing on the ground. Maybe it's all still possible, but sometimes if I am in a fight, and let's so you're strafing to the right, you can hit "a" and you won't simply SLOW DOWN, you'll IMMEDIATELY STOP. This is very useful to mixup sometimes slowing, sometimes stopping. I suppose you could map a button, but you cannot have the stick be at both sides at once (whereas on a keyboard you can have "a" and "d" pressed simultaneously). I would argue it seems that having a separate button mapped to that would be less quick and intuitive, however, perhaps even that could be practiced to the same extent. I also have misgivings about rocket jumping. As someone who has completed some T4 jump maps, some of the cardinal inputs you have to do in conjunction with aiming...maybe it's possible but it just seems like a controller would be a handicap. I don't have an argument though, it's just viiiiiiiiBBBbbbbbeeezzz I've never tried Gyro aim, so if I end up with a controller for some reason, I'll give it a shot.
I mean, I play my games with a trackball (Logitech MX Ergo) nowadays, so I have what's basically a 0 inch 360 as the body of the trackball mouse unit sits in one comfy place and my thumb just rolls the ball quick and smooth or even send it spinning just about as fast as those spinbot snipers can rotate.
I've always loved the feeling of using and configuring controllers on games that wouldn't normally have controller controls. And to see someone destroy an entire server using only a controller and gyroscope, makes a tear fall from my eye.
This might be good with sniper since you can change your walking speed to throw off other experienced snipers and the snapping thing might make medic stronger since you can instantly turn around without too much effort
Solar, I need to thank you inspiring me to try out trimping, it is easily some of the most fun I have had in this game, and it remains massively funny to teleport behind a tryhard scout. Even if you don't kill them, you die knowing their blood pressure is no longer okay.
Ever since fortnite introduced gyro aiming I started shilling gyro aiming (which imo makes aim assist redundant now, as it was a bandaid solution to make controller equivalent to mkb), and I’m glad that now more people are getting convinced about how useful it is
Top tier video. I've always liked the notion of conch trimping even after the turnspeed bug got patched, but I've never considered gyro. although...now I'm considering TF2 on a Wiimote + Nunchuk, although you'd need a Wii Motion Plus since motes and chuks don't have gyro built in iirc
The Hydra control scheme was pretty much exactly how Wii shooters controlled. I remember playing Metroid Prime 3 and Goldeneye and liking the shooting control better than normal twin stick aiming. The "shake to jump" feature on the Hydra wasn't really a thing with Wii shooters, but definitely inspired by the waggling of the whole Wii era.
Having used Gyro aiming for Splatoon, I have to say now I just straight-up can't play shooters on controller without it anymore. it's like night and day. Also it's kinda interesting how Splatoon being a third-person game and also being designed from the ground up with gyro aiming in mind affects how it solves some of the problems of gyro aiming, since instead of having gyro ratcheting, you have a re-center button. You can even use it as a pseudo "turn around" button like what Resident Evil 4 had. The fact that Splatoon is designed to be fairly approachable for younger players is also a factor in why it takes the approaches it does. Their approach of having a more normal right stick camera and a re-center button offers skilled players less control than flick stick and gyro ratcheting, but it also has a gentler learning curve. and honestly I have to wonder if Microsoft not adopting gyro aiming is a big part of why people generally aren't as aware of it. It's a feature that should be as revolutionary for shooters as right stick aiming, but just didn't catch on to nearly the same degree, and I have to assume that part of it is developers not wanting to put resources into a feature that isn't available on one platform - especially as crossplay becomes more and more of an in-demand feature. In the past, console/PC crossplay already had problems due to PC players having an advantage, but nowadays aim assist in a lot of games is strong enough to mitigate that. I assume a lot of devs wouldn't want to deliberately put in a feature that would also give Playstation players an inherent advantage against Xbox players (then again Fortnite gave that exact feature to Switch players)
It's increasingly becoming harder and harder to argue that gyro isn't being implemented due to development time. Gyro output technically can be read exactly like a mouse. That's how Steam treats the Dual Sense, and that doesn't require individual development and tuning on a per-game basis. The Nexus Xim DOES have that problem. Joystick input has to be outputted as displacement measurements. This means each game requires its own implementation and programming.
Splatoon is the BEST example of gyro, originally I used sticks only which hindered me unconsciously. After I switched to gyro a few months ago (I played the entire lifetime of Splatoon 1 with sticks btw) I inmediatly increased in capabilities and I went from losing almost every encounters to being able to go onto full teamwipes
Gyro is awesome, but Splatoon isn't maybe the best example of gyro in shooters; splatoon is a game that doesn't have a direct focus on aiming, from a design perspective; and aiming towards players is greatly helped by aim assist. Yes, it works really well, and Splatoon works a lot better with gyro than without, but in a practical setting it's a little different. There are a lot better examples in my opinion, and Splatoon is awesome, but y'know
@@MixAndMash it's easily the best example since it's built up from gyro. Mainly helped by the fact that Splatoon has ZERO aim assist. Splatoon has a lot of focus on aiming, especially for weapons like the blasters and especially the chargers which can easily miss of you overshoot or undershoot. I know it sounds rude and I mean it in the most respectful way possible but. You have zero idea on what you're talking about
Watching the controller gameplay with the gyro stick feels like watching someone play tf2 on VR. The camera movements are really jittery and feel more human, less like the smooth movement of a mouse. Very cool.
Another cool thing about BotW is that flick stick sort of exists. Obviously there’s gyro aim (and it’s awesome), but if you use the left stick to face link in a direction and then hold down the shield button, it will make the camera look where link is looking. I was trying to explain to a friend who uses regular stick aim (somehow) why this is so helpful and I didn’t have a term to describe it.
@@PorkSnorkle I actually haven’t played OoT (but I’ve played other Zelda games w/z-targeting). Does z-targeting in that game turn the camera even if there isn’t actually anything to target?
i fucking love gyro aim and anyone who dismisses it because it's motion needs to stop being a baby and give it a real try. and flick stick is something i don't ever personally see myself using, but it's so goddamn cool and i love how much recognition its getting, i love seeing it discussed by more and more people
Cool. Now tell me, how do all that stuff on a PS5 ? Enabling Gyro aim sure, however enabling flick stick and binding a button to pause gyro aiming ? I haven´t been able to find anything on that.
@@gordonfeetman2425 on consoles it's entirely a game by game basis because that's just how consoles are, sony love wasting the potential of their controller by not including support for it. nintendo games and switch ports are the only console games that consistently have gyro support. flick stick is supported in a small handful of console games, but it's a long way from being a common feature still. for now at least if you want to be able to do this in any game you play you have to just play on pc
10:25, I'm rewatching this now and, HOW did I not notice that Solar's arm model here is that of a red Demoman while he's on Blu? That really confused me for a sec
Just to clarify, I'm not switching to a controller permanently or anything, but I did want to defend this rather fun and wacky way of playing the game.
This video took a few months to make, I hope you all liked it.
Edit: I have uploaded a starter config for the Dualsense controller, in case you feel like trying it. I'll put more detailed instructions in the description.
Put this link in your browser
steam://controllerconfig/440/2801222110
Tide video when? 😡
demoknight tf2
Troll the haters with flick stick
Carmen Winstead
I'm enjoying the recent resurgence in interest for controllers in tf2, but something surprisingly absent in all of this is a mention of koymu. He's a spy main who uses stick controls to play spy, and he definitely hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.
I love how this video was "tf2 on steamdeck is bad lmao" and solar taking it personally and spending like 2 years getting good with gyro aiming in tf2 to make a 21 minute 46 second video to flip off reddit. solar never change
Yes
Solar light moment
Gyro controls are legit 100 times better than a regular mouse. It takes some time getting used to but the fidelity of control is absolutely unmatched.
@@helium-379 No. I use gyro aiming ever since I got my Steam Controller in 2017, I absolutely love gyro and a couple months ago I completely switched from mouse to gyro, training my gyro aim, despite me playing so much better with a mouse that it'll take some time to get back to my level on gyro. And still, I will confidently say, gyro is NOT better than mouse... but it's up there! Literally, I think we can confidently say that gyro is just as good as a mouse, not worse! Now, there are indeed things that gyro has an advantage over mice, but it still doesn't make it actually better: flick stick's ability to flick in any direction instantly is pretty much infinitely better than what mouse can do - flick stick has infinite velocity, it's instant, while mouse is unfortunately restricted by laws of physics not letting you teleport it; some people swear by movement on controller, saying that it's much better on mnk; extensive gamepad configuration sometimes can achieve something you could never on mnk; and most importantly - gyro is easier to get better at, the same exact person with no previous mouse or gyro experience will play better with gyro in the same time, it feels more natural and is easier to master (on higher levels of aiming - no difference, both equally really hard to get better at, so much so that the difference evens out).
@@kurushimee gyro and MnK are the closest thing to each other to finally bridge the gap and MAYBE convince ppl aim assist is bullshit
To be honest, I’m all for this new age of ControllerKnight TF2
nice pfp
funny enough, controllers were used by demoknights before gyro was a thing - since the turning restrictions of the demo charge didn't apply to analog sticks, you had demoknighs using controllers to trimp back in 2012.
@@thecorruptedbit5585 Interesting
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
Love that album nice pfp
The thing is, there's such a stigma against gyro aim and other """ guimicky""" controller input methods that most people probably haven't given them a chance even if they had the opportunity. Plus there's tons of people who have never used a controller capable of it.
So the vast majority of people think of stick aiming when they think of playing on a controller.
As someone who only saw the beginning of gyro with the PS3 Controller.
Yeah. I legit only saw it was a gimmick that was stupid, poorly implemented, and would never really be worth putting time into remembering the existence of.
man you didn't just say guimicky
@@DarthSears was there any ps3 game that allowed you to aim with the six axis?
Of the top of my head the only two uses that I can remember were aiming grenades in Uncharted and moving the hurricane weapon in Ratchet and Clank. Definitely gimmicky in this case, but that hardly compares to the capacities of the controllers shown here.
Splatoon 1 and 2 convinced me gyro aiming can work. It takes some used to, but I mean is it really any less or more naturl than pressing keys and flinging a mouse around?
@@berni1011 it's definitely more natural than using a stick, given that developers literally have to cheat on your behalf (aim assist) for it to be bearable
Hey there! Splatoon player here.
Gyro aiming is infact probably one of the best methods for playing shooters with controllers. Most comp players for Splatoon play Gyro on various levels of sensitivity, and I can confirm that it just makes shooting with maximum efficiency, especially in a third person environments, much easier for the player. Top tier splatoon players can perform crazy stunts such as doing an insane 180 flick to a falling target behind them while playing the charger/sniper weapon with the power of gyro. Thank you for shedding light on this [ honestly ] more optimal way to play shooters with controllers for people who are familiar with mouse!
It gives the option to have very slow and precise movement and fast and wide movement at the same time, just like a mouse does.
People can do kick flips with their switches to get extra kills???
gyro my beloved
for those who don't have a controller, but wants to walk: use +strafe command. by default its a bind on left ALT. to walk, you need to hold your +strafe bind and move your mouse
THANK YOU
But then how does Gmod do it? You can walk slowly and aim.
It's either other command made especially for Gmod, or just Strafe but remade for Gmod Purposes.
How do I add a controller
@@BaderAljahwari1 If you don't have new technology (XBox 360 controller) then you sadly have to get a remote controller (shown in a video), unless you have wired version of controller. PS3 or other, I don't really know, but probably Bluetooth or USB cable is enough.
@@nyancatec I have a wired ps4 tho
Gyro sure has some insane potential. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see a mouse with a joystick where the thumb is to allow for the 360* turns to happen.
There is one that actually exists. The Asus ROG Chakram indeed has a stick, and Steam actually released an update that adds config support for it, so you could probably use Flick Stick on it. However, it's quite expensive.
I''ve seen controller and keyboard (mostly for flight sims), but certainly never joystick and mouse
Sounds like a logical setup tho, since the main downside of mouse is the lack of precision movement
so like a gaming trackball?
@@SolarLight The “A Sus”
@@rompevuevitos222 Because Mouse+keyboard users are renowned for their use of Aim Assist and general inability to aim- no, that's the joystick's issue. Joysticks act much faster than a mouse, but a mouse is far more precise than a joystick. Most if not all shooters for consoles have aim assist to some degree, whereas most if not all PC shooters don't. Precision in a shooter is a must have and it makes sense that systems would be put in place to fix a hardware issue. For the Controller you need aim assist as you cannot move just a pixel over, whereas for the mouse you need to turn up the sensitivity in order to spin faster.
Ever since I own a Steam Controller, I no longer doubt the gyro aiming advantage. Nintendo have fully embraced it with their Splatoon series and few third-party games have it as an option. While, Sony is slowly getting there and Microsoft never bother to give gyro a chance.
My next challenge is mastering flick stick.
microsoft just wants cheap controllers.
..and whatever that elite controller bulls*** is, like come on that isn't going to give you an advantage in a shooter.
Fortnite actually has flick stick naively, so you can try mastering it there.
if Microsoft would give it any thought they could've made gyro aim a default feature for over a decade. They own both Xbox and WIndows, so if they would've added the feature as part of the XInput standard, we would've had gyro aim in both platforms since at least 2005. That still doesn't mean that games have to support it, but at least it would be part of the hardware and thus an option.
I’ve played controller my whole life and this is the first time I’ve ever heard of and seen Gyro in action, I’m absolutely blown away by this. Thank you for this video
As a Splatoon player, I'm extremely grateful for you taking the time to tell people about motion controls, and extremely intrigued by the new motion control options that I've never seen before. Great video!
now i legit want flick stick in splatoon since the right stick can't do vertical aim anyways
Yeah I agree.
I think fortnite also has built-in flick stick controls aswell, and boomerang x but that's all of the games I'm familiar with that has those natively and on the switch
@@kdsm6424 fn motion controls suck in comparison to splatoon
@@resyntax camera recenter isn't flick stick, while it can do similar things it isn't as fast
The problem with gyro is that outside of Nintendo it's underused and it still holds a negative stigma from the Wii era, even though that was for waggle shakes and not aiming. What you did with the six sense is similar to how fps games were on the Wii, and I think it's actually even better than gyro, the only thing that it would need, as you said, is being able to use the stick to turn the camera for big turns.
Honestly, I don't get why Wii has such a negative stigma. It's biggest flaw is that sunlight could mess with your controller input, because of it using infrared for your pointer on screen, but bluetooth for the rest of the gyro. The gyro itself works just fine, a lot of developers were pretty bad at using it, but I played Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 recently with it (and tried without), and Wiimote is the equivalent to gyro aiming that the Wii has, and it worked really well when my blinds were down.
Nintendo actually was able to see through the stigma and used gyro controls for splatoon!
And man, the community _loves it_
@@gamecavalier3230 That's true but I blame the developers, not the Wii for that.
Also not to mention a certain game that's quite famous for allowing a certain handheld console to be hacked to allow the user to run unauthorized custom software.
@@commscan314 Cubic Ninja?
19:17 Oh my God it wasn’t just a hand, it were ARMS
I never tried out a controller in fps before. In Korea, PC is the platform most of the people enjoys the game with cause of abundance of PC cafes, so. It was very Interesting to see the other side. Great work!
DEWILL DA WAY
Alright
he just wants a hug
그렇습니다, 한국에선 확실히 콘솔 게임기보단 PC를 이용한 게이밍이 활성화 되있죠, 디아블로, 스타크래프트, 오버워치, 로스트아크 등등..
100+ degree fov moment
cry about it
On that last controller. That aim method is called “free aiming” and a set of older console games used it. It’s not bad but most of them used hybrid aim systems with really heavy aim assist/auto aim.
i vaguely remember Metroid Prime doing this.
yeah i remember Far Cry on the Wii using it
some of the ones I remember are GoldenEye 007 and System Shock
@@snek9320 perfect dark too.
Call of duty on the wii aswell. No aim assist tho that would have been broken.
Gyro aim has always been so good and so underrated. Every time a game slaps the feature on, it improves things drastically
Shame sometimes developers just make the gyro input a glorified stick (with shit like acceleration and dead zones), killing the entire purpose of gyro. For it to perform better, you always need to set it to raw mouse input
Splatoon has really opened peoples eyes to gyro aiming
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
I wish splatoon's was more tunable
It's an odd place to have learned about gyro aim, but I tried PUBG Mobile when it was still new and it had a gyro aim feature that introduced me to it and it felt so smooth (even though it was just a mobile game lol)
Gyro aiming is one of the greatest things to ever happen to controllers
ehhhhhhhh I mean it’s more flexible but it’s harder than controller but for a bit more reward and it’s harder than pc for less reward.
Why is gyro controls so underated? They make small and big adjustments all the like so much easier
@@hudsonator7259 Outrageously hard to master, far more than mouse or sticks on top of being actively unfun to learn. Plenty of devs that want to make it the standard control scheme, but it's not happening any time soon, if ever.
@@Hubbleshubbles Is it really that hard? I find I got better results with gyro than with sticks after not that much practicing in a bunch of fps
That's the last time I hear my brother talk about how Xbox controllers are better than Switch Pro Cons...
Solarlight... thank you for making this video.
Some time ago, I lost a lot of muscle in my arm and my hand. I found out I had something on my brain that was pushing down on the part of the brain that controls the functions to my arm and hand. It's been two years since that day, and I'm still unable to play any game with both hands. I'm only capable of using my left hand to control everything and to have my right hand weakly grasp the controller for some support. After watching this video, I was actually in disbelief. I was really amazed. It brought me pure joy that maybe, just maybe... I can play video games like normal again. Maybe I could play games with my friends like I used to.
From the bottom of my heart, I thank you for making this video🥲
Hey dude, look up Asus ROG Chakram. It's a mouse with a built in stick like on a controller. I don't know how it'd work exactly but you could walk with the stick and aim with the mouse, from just one hand. Depending on how capable your other hand is, you could use it for basic stuff like jumping, switching weapons, calling for medic,... Anyway, I'm sure that with how the technology is going, you can figure something out. Hell you can even get foot pedals for certain binds. Good luck dude.
@@emrebaskocak thanks man, I'll certainly look into it, and the idea of foot petals do sound like a good idea, though I might have to pad my room just to make sure I'm not making a crazy amount of sound🤣😂
bruh how do you jerk it
Dang, that sounds Bad, hope You are doing well and found the way to play with your Friends again
@@user-cm9kx9nf8p ÑñÑñÑ que haces aqui
I think it's kind of hilarious how the controller explicitly meant for the console on which TF2 was originally played ends up sucking the hardest at being used for the game.
Fun fact about the Razer Hydra: One of the first Steam Controller prototypes is an Xbox 360 controller hacked in half with a Hydra controller taking up the missing spot. It's very cursed.
I looked this up and holy shit, that’s amazing honestly. Still very cursed, but I had a good laugh over this. Definitely looks like the type of controller you’d get at a friends house when you play co-op games.
@@starryari2389 That was the only good thing about the wii u, the pro controller was an obvious purchase so with the monitor controller alongside it meant everyone had a good controller!
@@starryari2389 what search term did u use?
@@alex.g7317 "Steam controller prototype"
@@alex.g7317 I know this is a year old but I honestly just searched "steam controller prototype", went to images, and scrolled a little, but it also seems like there's a whole list of steam controller prototypes so you could probably look through anything that looks like those as well hehe
As a comp splatoon player I can confirm motion controls and gyro are completely viable and actually pretty easy to use
Can’t go back to 3 after this
As I gyro user, I will counter by saying gyro aiming is very bad. it is more addictive that meth and will result in people all around you in shooter games dying very quickly.
Splatoon gyro is not nearly as good as this. It allows for the basics but you’re still at the whims of “stick pushing” the camera horizontally.
@@hb-robo It can still be really fast
Easy to use, hard to master.
I played warframe on switch and noted how the motion controls allow for far more precise aiming than should be possible with a controller, and I'm glad to see someone else realized that controllers with motion controls are AMAZING for shooters.
Excellent video
The solar eclipse is over, he's back
The light come with his sword, shield, and his infamous scream
Yay
@@DA28007 there can be ONLY one.
An 8 month eclipse. That’s about how long I haven’t seen the sun in.
Funny enough the solar eclipse was this year
I'd given up on taking controller fps seriously 20 years ago. As an esports coach, this was massively eye opening.
that's why your mind needs to be opened like this,controller aim is not just about aim assist,it can be far more skill based while also being more viable if devs just gave controllers a chance.
May sound stupid, especially since I’m a complete casual, but if any scene has a dedicated competitive player-base, writing them completely off is kinda spitting in the face of any effort that gets put in,, especially if the reason is due to the input method that gets used.
@@-cactus.raven- problem with console games designed for controllers is that they rely heavily on VERY generous aim assist. As soon as you give people a game that doesn't have ANY assist they deem it unplayable (MAG on PS3 was great example of that, it was one of better multiplayer FPS on that generation of consoles and it died because people just couldn't stomach the raw inputs showing them how much they actually suck). This is why Halo multiplayer was such acclaimed console success and barely anybody gave the shit about the franchise on PC because while for us it was a dumbed down, slower take on Unreal Tournament, console players for the first time were able to play FPS game and not utterly suck at it. In competitive setting you can't really accept these kind of assists and unfortunately, they're not optional but an integrated part of the experience. Hence why each and every console Call of Duty tournament was a pure meme, entirely ignoring here how bad of a competitive experience CoD as a game is.
@@Micromation You reminded me of my thoughts on Quake and arena shooters in general. Always thought the reason the genre died was because of consoles, aim assist doesn't do a whole lot of those games and making predictive shots. Also the movement required on older console controllers was just not possible. Hence the scripting of movement which most fps games have now. With this they seem playable, honestly gives me hope. That being said this controller setup seems very difficult for the majority of people to use and would require such a learning curve it won't catch on.
@@半蔵-x5h it's a new control scheme and people have no muscle memory associated. If you don't put any effort into it, you will never become proficient. If you've never played with mouse, your first time (and probably several dozen hours later) would suck too until you got accustomed and built some muscle memory.
Honestly I just want to try it so I can "fall in love" with tf2 again, relearning all the controls and funny quirks that are possible. Looks so fun!
can i get an unban c:
@@Pikachara what the fuck are you talking about
Fatherless pfp
degenerate
Wohoolad R34
Okay so I'm coming back to this video after nearly a year due to a conversation about controller vs. kbm in shooters, and that bit at 13:07 about your game knowledge applying but having to rebuild muscle memory from scratch reminds me of an experience I had with another game.
Back in 2019, I switched from playing Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on a Switch Pro Controller to playing on an all-button arcade-style controller, and that also had a similar initial learning curve where I had no muscle memory but all of my game knowledge. It was a really weird and kinda surreal experience. I'd almost compare it to what it was like getting used to walking again after I had back surgery when I was 15 (long story).
Honestly now I kinda wanna learn to play TF2 on controller just because that experience of playing a game I'm already familiar with but have zero muscle memory is genuinely fascinating, and it's something I'd like to experience again.
You can just switch mouse/keyboard hands. Or turn your screen upside down.
Or drastically change your settings. Don't need more hardware for that
As someone who recently tried playing Splatoon for the first time, the controls I found most intuitive was to play with the joycons separated from each other. It still acts like one controller, but all of the gyro controls are on the right joycon, making it feel more like a mouse. From that perspective, I can definitely see the appeal of the razer hydra, and if there were something similar (but good) I'd definitely be interested in getting it.
Is that true? I’ve always just used sticks on a singular controller to aim, but I might have to try that, sounds fun!
Split controllers need to become more of a thing. It's sad outside of VR that Joycons are the only ones.
@@CorrosiveCitrus It's nice not being handcuffed while you play. I wish the joycons were bigger though.
That's how I've been playing Doom Eternal on Switch.
@@ThomasDailey What about this idea: Have a left joycon-like design and a mouse (and some how sync them up). This will give the benefits of a controller (precise stick movement compared to WASD), while you get the benefits of the mouse (camera control in basically all games are enhanced)
The only issue I can see is the lack of buttons. But I think this could be worked through by adding more mouse/controller buttons whether that's on the side of the mouse or on the back of the joycon. Ergonomics might be uncomfortable, but not sure until it's tested tbh. plus the controller would be designed better than a joycon which is constrained to the switch's shape.
This is why I believe that gyro controls should be implemented in every game that has aiming to some degree. I love the comodity of playing with a controller, but I absolutely despise everytime I have to aim down something with it. Great vid Solar!
Absolutely!! Going from gyro to stick in a game that doesn't support gyro feels almost unplayable
long as they make it better than OW2's. tried playing that on switch and it feels hellish.
then again, I didn't try to tweak settings if there were any.
Thank god the steam deck lets you just enable gyro externally for every game
I loved using gyro for warface
Splatoon walked so other shooters could run
I learned the superiority of Gyro while trying to aim the bow in BotW. To compare it to mouse aim is very accurate
🤦♂🤦♀🤦🤦🏽♀🤦🏽♂🤦🏽🤦🏻♀🤦🏻♂🤦🏿♀🤦🏿♂🤦🏻
@@frog382he’s right.
@@poker8086 Looking forward seeing professional counterstrike players using controllers. Aim is very important in cs, i hope they learn this secret...
🤨
@@frog382 nobody is arguing its as good as mouse for high level professional cs lmfao. but for the vast majority of players its absolutely viable once you learn it
@@1venusflytrap You should not compare it to the mouse, since its inevitable people will organise busting of that myth. If you approach it as a upgrade to the existing controller instead, you will not receive the shit. The reality is it is closer to the controller than to a mouse, so just call it for what it is. I actually believe mouse will become obsolete at some point, but its hard to imagine how.
When you started showing off the Razer Hydra gameplay, it looked completely normal to me… then I realized the hundreds of hours playing Metroid Prime with the Wiimote aiming has wired my brain like an absolute goofball
I want to do this now.
Idea that popped into my head: if they allowed Spy to be able to move at max speed disguised as every class, controllers would let players attempt to match the movement speed of the heavier classes he’s disguised as, thereby needlessly increasing the skill depth of the game, which I’m all for.
mimic the speed of classes manually?
That would be a nice little buff for spy
Problem is that would force everyone who takes spy seriously to buy a controller to have disguises that actually fool players. That, or script awkward key inputs at preset speeds for movement.
the shift key does exist
Fun fact: a spy on a controller with the cloak and dagger, crouching and moving as slow as possible will not drain any cloak
Shoutouts to Splatoon for, in my mind at least, making gyroscope + right stick the new meta for console shooters.
For a shooter game, i mean, it's good to know they made a way to aim better
Was just about to post something about Splatoon but people beat me to it lol. I use the Classic because it reminds me of how chargers in Splatoon play; I just miss the leniency that flick shots have in Splatoon
@@CBaller The Sydney and Classic are currently fighting each other for the title of "favorite Rifle" because they both remind me of Splatoon's Chargers.
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
Hello fellow splatoon enjoyers
I really like the Splatoon school of aiming which involves using a higher sensitivity on the analog stick to make big movements and then a much lower sensitivity on the gyro for precision corrections.
i reckon itll be a preferential choice between that and the flick stick stuff
The flick stick is far better, I can tell you that much. You can't beat that level of fine control and the ability to instantly turn to any direction you want with traditional analog movement.
There is no contest high sens and flickStick
FS is better in about every way
@@Thornskade You can instantly turn to any direction you want without flick stick. Flick stick is a preference, it is not superior to normal motion aim. You can turn around in one frame with properly calibrated motion sensitivity.
@@tiggerbiggo lolno
Okay, the usage of SRB2 Music caught me completely off-guard, but that has earned you an *_instant_* subscription. You are indeed a chad of culture
I feel like Nerrel’s video on Gyro is one of the most convincing videos on the topic I’ve seen. Definitely recommend if you have skepticisms over motion controls on Controllers
What’s so criminal is that the Daulshock 3 controllers had gyro, which means technically gyro aim could’ve been implemented in so many FPS games (yes I know gyro aim wasn’t too mainstream until the 3DS and Wii U)
The issue here is that while Wii and PS3 had some sort of Gyro option Xbox, which a big part of online console shooters are played on never had any sort of Gyro option.
@@diegomedina9637 I think the problem the OP alluded to, is that no developer even conceived the gyro could be used for aiming. I'm not even sure what the first gyro-aim game was or when it came out.
@@Creshex8 literally no one uwed gyro on ps3 ever. lbp used it to tilt your character around but that was the most useful feature attached to the sixaxis (which isnt even a full 3d sensor as it has just pitch and yaw so no roll), AND IT WAS MAKING FUNNY COTTON MAN TURN HIS HEAD AROUND. some usermade levels in lbp2 also used it but ehhhhhhhhhhhh
@@kellymountain Besides LBP only games I recall using PS3's gyro were Uncharted games & Mirror's Edge when balancing on thin objects. Such an underutilized mechanic.
EDIT: I mean games that I own. There's probably more games that use the gyro but I haven't played them.
@@WEndro333 you could drive in gta 4 via sixaxis 😂
Ive always believed gyro is the future of console gaming.
However it always gets heavy backlash. If you go on forums of people asking why it doesnt have it people respond "because we dont need that gimmicky shit". And if its on by default, most players turn it off without trying it. Because "motion controls bad".
Im honestly excited to see steam deck endorse it heavily. Hopefully this will be a new age of gyro. Not just in splatoon and zelda.
It's pretty much nintendo's fault
@@Sir_GrimReaper How? Their implementation in Splatoon and BotW is better than majority of companies have done.
@@ScoutOW2 i'm talking about the wii
yeah, some of the first motion controls were bad at best, utter crap at worst at that left a bad impression
I'm just a stubborn prick so I will never attempt to learn how to use it and will never, ever want to.
I feel like gyro and flick stick are the biggest innovations in fps controls since standard twin stick aiming.
the only problem is that people find it hard to convert from one method to the other. Most players aren't willing to dedicate the time to learning it
absolutely
@@parknplay8328 I did since I play games on my TV sometimes, and I started playing fps games with gyro once I got ahold of a Steam Controller.
I'm not using gyro aim for the heck of it as I maintain that a mouse is still better. My aim on gyro controller has small imprecisions due to the slight jitter of your hands. This jitter is alleviated with a mouse since it rests on a desk, giving it stability, kinda like a gun stock. In that sense, gyro controller aim is a bit like aiming a gun without a gun stock. It's similar to aiming with a stock, but there is definitely less stability to your aim.
Seeing the crosshair go off center is the most cursed thing I have ever witnessed in TF2.
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
Having played modern warfare reflex on Wii back in the day, it was a weird nostalgia trip.
I can't even imagine how a spectator feels seeing THIS
im glad gyro tech is finally getting the recognition it deserves
"the recognition it deserves"
That could mean anything!
@@Pickelrye i did mean something
oh shit@@corneliuscornwallis I did NOT expect you to reply to that. Yea I'm glad that gyro's getting into more places as an option, but there's still the reputation of Wii-waggle-itis. I kinda figured that with a year-old comment I could swoop on by and mention that the recognition is multi-sided, but I guess this is what I get for being shocked in a reply section: lengthy reasons with beeg text.
17:12 Solarlight it made me laugh just to see a VERY small portion of the piechart being compettive
I remember first seeing the type of technology intergraded in Splatoon and thought it was brilliant. Took some time to learn, but once I did, I never want to play on a controller without it. I am so happy that more games are getting this feature.
As a PS4 Duelshock 4 player, this video is GOLD. My mind is actually blown, and I had no idea gyroscope aiming was actually viable, it's mostly just tossed around as a joke. The high sensitivity actually makes this possible and flick stick is completely new to me as well. Despite playing with the right stick for 8 years, I've just learned something new. Thanks Solar, and thanks for defending the casual controller plebs!
As a splatoon comp player, It's nice to see people realize and learn how good motion controls are ^^
Amen
comp splatoon lol
@@nurgle-j5n shhhhh. we like to keep it a secret
@@nurgle-j5nIt’s a very real thing and you’d likely be shit at it if you don’t use gyro
@@nurgle-j5n Splatoon is extremely mechanically intensive I don't know why you guys always react like this lol
6:20 Is that music from Sonic Robo Blast 2?! You, sir, are based.
I played splatoon 1 heavy when it came out on the Wii U and I realized how broken motion aim was pretty early on a lot of people in the community would turn off gyro aiming at the beginning because it was new at the time and people weren't used to it but you would see everyone who wasn't using motion get stomped by people who were
Splatoon is honestly the reason I even consider motion control good in fps games
9:48
Spy: oh… FU- *Starts speaking Default Killsound language*
I have always thought gyro controls were pretty good even if I personally prefer a mouse due to being more used to it, it is a shame that the first thing everyone thinks about when they hear "motion controls" is like wii sports swinging a wii thing around when it has so much potential.
Nerrel
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
The switch controller is how I was introduced to gyro controllers, and while I still prefer a keyboard and mouse, aiming in BOTW with the bow using gyro was amazing! Gyro actually made controllers competitive to PC now!
Actually played with one yesterday, and a few times previously. Gotta say: I aim so much better as most of the classes except sniper, and even that i can just do alright with a huntsman. It takes some getting used to, but its certaintly worth it if you have the opportunity. Oh and a tip: Default nintendo pro controller binds in TF2 are awful, change them immediatly. Theres no default jump bind, but theres a default contracker bind??? Not hard to fix though.
the switch controller config was made for the steam controller,which has paddles for stuff like jumping
Yeah But How About S : PS3 And XBOX360 Team Fortress 2 ? They Still Alives Presents Todays ! +1
@@C.A._Old They can't use gyro on the 360 and PS3, they have to live with what they got or switch to PC.
@@Thornskade Oh Yeah ? Thing About ! People Still Alives İn PS3 And XBOX360 ! +1
@@C.A._Old Are you suffering from a perpetual stroke or something?
This has shed new light on controllers for FPS. The flick stick + gyro combo honestly seem like it could work for any FPS game.
I agree, I've tried using a Switch Pro controller and definitely felt how you could play well with it with practice. But, that's just the thing, it takes practice. A new skill you have to learn. When you have years of experience playing using a mouse and keyboard, you master it, it becomes totally intuitive. Moving to a controller, even with gyro controls, feels awful at first by comparison, since all of that stuff you've learned to do intuitively is gone. You have to learn the controls all over again, which of course means you perform worse, you're busy trying to get used to aiming which distracts you from other important things like spychecking. And because they perform worse when trying it and aren't going to invest the time to actually get good with it, most everyone thinks controllers are garbage.
Honestly, people really sleep on motion controls with controller, it's insane. I personally play on controller lol. I usually use my stick for looking around and for recentering instead of a button.
This was actually crazy informative.
Had never heard of gyro aiming etc.
Thanks for sharing man, really well put together, researched and presented.
Well done.
I played Resident Evil 4 on the Wii and the aiming was fun and very effective. When I got a Switch, I mistakenly thought it was like the WiiMote, and had a pretty wacky period of adjustment as I learned about gyros. I was also always wondering how my PS4 controller could let me use motion control to type on its keyboard without any IR sensor.
You legend. Great work with this video! I've been looking forward to it, and you did not disappoint!
It's such a pity the Hydra wouldn't let you turn the camera with the stick 😬 I have a couple of prototypes of games that use gyro for free aim and right stick for camera (optionally even flick stick) and it's such a great combo.
Gaming would look so different today if the Wiimote had a stick
The epic man himself. Thanks for bringing Flick Stick to the community!
I've been wondering what it would be like for dual controllers (like the Hydra or dual joycons) to have one gyro set to normal gyro aim and the second set to free cursor, so you can use both gyros at the same time.
How shish its the flick stick guy
It’s really weird how gyro aim and flickstick end up giving you the jittery aim and the quick 180 flicking of an aimbot, yet still dependent on actual skill to pull off.
And because of that it can get you votekicked for "cheating"
@@MaximG. I mean it definitely FEELS like cheating to me. If a keyboard player rebound their arrow keys to face them in fixed directions people would call that cheating
@@notcarbuncle1493 no
@@notcarbuncle1493 If you can set those settings in game, then it's not cheating, pretty simple.
My mouse supports buttons that emulate it spinning in 90 degrees for certain games, that's not cheating either considering it's simply build in by the company, it's just how some devices work.
7:35 it shoots a small laser that doesnt go far, so it doesnt pause, it just cant register air inputs
YOOOO FINALLY
When I bring up controllers to people for PC games, they often shake it off by saying 'sticks are bad and not precise', while ignoring the entire point of gyro, or saying its a gimmick and inferior. Glad to see this video explain how a controller can keep up to par with keyboard+mouse, and I personally didnt even know about the flick stick, probably because I use the steam controller for PC games.
i didnt even realize a lot of modern controllers had gyro. Im def trying this tonight
I had no idea gyro aiming even existed before watching this, thanks for enlightening me
As someone who already likes gyro aim, flick stick sounds ingenious (albeit difficult to get used to). This makes me wish Xbox had support for either
11:55 TF2 always had these features, but they are broken with custom HUDs
Knew it had something to do with gyro. I used to play Splatoon 2 and the difference between stick and gyro is night and day. Even more so when used in combination
Splatoon really pioneered gyro aiming in competitive shooting games.
I have been a big proponent of Gyro aim for a while now, I consider it a core feature for a controller to have these days and the fact the Xbox Series Controllers lack it is shocking. but its lack of acceptance of even understanding by people isnt just a TF2 problem. part of this is probably due to stigma around motion controles in general left over from the nintendo Wii and its over reliance on Waggle control. People see the Wii and by extension motion controls as a "casual only" thing.
And again, the most easy to set up, core PC controller option, the Xbox controller, is at this point the only current gen controller that lacks the feature, meaning most probably dont have access to it.
Seeing that this is the first time I’ve heard people really praising gyro controls or them being talked about at all in recent memory and that most can get on perfectly fine without them it seems obvious why Microsoft doesn’t invest in them. It’s not really required, they already have tons of people on PC using them and they’re in a good position. Maybe next series x version release they might consider implementing them.
You might be right about were the stigma comes from, but honestly, you'd think that most of the people who feel this way have only ever watched a 2009 xbox kinect commercial and are under the impression that waggling your arms about like a noodly cartoon character is, or even ever was, the state of the art.
While the Wii often failed to provide a compelling use for its unique controller, I would argue that it succeeded more often than not, at least within the 1st-party library of games. A lot of games on the Wii play... really really well, especially first person shooters. IR pointer aiming is, in my opinion, better than gyro aiming, and possibly even better than mouse aiming. it never looses calibration and gives you a very wide range of movement which maps 1:1 on to your character's movements. Metroid prime 3, one of the first big examples of this type of aiming, came out in august 2007, less than a year after the Wii was released. Other notable early examples of IR pointer aim include resident evil 4 "wii edition" (2007) and sin and punishment 2 (2009). Sega's "The Conduit" (2009) also has great aiming, although I must add the caveat that it is a bad game, and you should definitely play the superior "the Conduit 2" (2011) instead. Regardless, all of these games are well over a decade old at this point. In fact, metroid prime 3 and resident evil 4 "wii edition" are both older than TF2 itself.
I get the feeling that if many gamers had actually bothered to play any of these games, they might not have such a negative impression of motion controls as a whole. But they didn't. They never played the games at all. They saw the Wii sports commercials, saw people standing up, and decided that they were right out of there. Or, even worse, they did give the games a chance, but happened to play zelda or mario-- both of which use controller waggling for no good reason, where a button press would have been better-- and abandoned motion controls right then and there. It's tragic, because some of the best motion experiences are, in fact, first person shooters. the IR aiming of the Wii was great, and current-gen gyro aim, while less precise and impressive than the IR pointer, is far better than dual analogue.
The Wii is a sword that cut both ways. it offered the best pointing/aiming experience that has ever been available on consoles, and in that has not been equalled or surpassed** by any subsequent mass-market machine. But people also deride it for retarding the acceptance of motion controls by the wider gaming community.
I must disagree. The Wii was a machine, nothing more, nothing less. the experiences it provided varied greatly, just like any other games console-- but, in a more pronounced way, because of the new axis of input available for developers. Some devs used them to create novel experiences that were meaningful improvements on older control schemes. Others didn't. Either way, claiming that the Wii is responsible for how people view motion controls gives too much credit to Nintendo's marketing department, and doesn't put enough impetus on gamers themselves, who by-and-large appear to have eschewed thinking critically about the issue and forming their own, nuanced opinions-- instead opting in to a ready-made take, served to them piping hot from the presses of gaming news media outlets everywhere.
@@DallinBackstrom NGL, not mentioning Red Steel 2 is almost a crime. It's the best Wii shooter imo. It nails the FPS mechanics while also oozing with style.
Finally , after year and a half , a new video
People said I was crazy when converting to Steam Controller for TF2 when it first came out and now they are eating their words
Gyro aiming the bow in BOTW singlehandedly changed my opinion on controllers and motion controls simultaneously. I would still prefer a mouse wherever possible, but it's shockingly effective for something I previously dismissed as a clumsy gimmick.
The "flick stick" is something neat I haven't seen before. Clearly there's still room for innovative and *useful* input methods!
i saw flick stick when it was first created and seeing it get as far as it has over the last 2 years has been so awesome, even some console games have official support for it!
It's so good to hear people finally talking about this.
I've played splatoon 2 for a good few years now, and after learning how to actually use the motion controls it's amazing how precise you can get.
I don't understand why they get such a bad rap.
I think most people just associate controllers with the _bad_ one *ahem* xbox *ahem* and didn’t realize how gyro is a thing.
@@yousorooo Even gyro aim is trash when not implemented properly. It gets too jittery and stuff, like older VR setups used to be. It's headache-inducing for me personally.
Walking demoman doesn’t exist, he can’t make you laugh to death
Walking demoman: 21:00
Hes walking
3:35 WTF your thumb xD
B E N D
The stick flick is one of my fave features because it precisely aims to the direction corresponding to the x and y axis while the z axis is done by the gyro.
Increasing the gyro sensitivity is what I didn't even consider back when I tried to play TF2 with a Steam Controller myself. Therefore, with the default sens I had to move a controller way too much to get anything done, which wasn't playable on anything besides the Heavy.
The second I saw that James Bond clip, that confirmed my suspicions that this video was inspired by Nerrel's on motion control. Great video!
This reminds me of the good old Splatoon and it’s gyro controls. My first ever fps game I use a gyro, and it was a experience! When you get use to it, it is actually just like the video says. Almost like a mouse but somewhat, “better” as it’s like a physical 3D movement.
as a ex console player who played a lot of battlefield 4, i can say that i directly guessed gyro. not only was that the thing i used when playing bf4, but i liked it so much that it became a default for me. literally recognised the small jitters when using it but damn is it fun! i am impressed tho by how much more you can turn a simple controller into a literal combination of a keyboard and mouse. this is severely awesome :D
The small jitters it picks up makes the Nintendo pro controller technically more competitive, with its short throw triggers. However, I play with a Dual Sense. I know it has the disadvantage of being even more prone to picking up small movements with its long-pull triggers, but I consider it a hidden blessing. Learning to aim with steady hands is a skill you need to learn to handle REAL firearms, among other things. I use it as an opportunity to train my hands to be more steady, and it honestly creates some mini-games in some games you can play with gyro. The biggest example of this is using the bow in Horizon: Forbidden West. You pull back the trigger all the way to draw the bow, then release the trigger to let the arrow fly. For the most long-range shots, the challenge of steadily releasing the trigger could be really tough (when the target is very small). You also have to factor in arrow travel time (turn off aim assist, or the arrows will literally home-in on the targets). Even though it was tough, it was also incredibly fun AND very immersive (you really felt the experience was similar to shooting a real bow). Nothing was more satisfying than nocking an arrow and aiming at an enemy's head which was no larger than the head of a pin, while he was moving on a mount, calculating arrow travel time to lead the shot, and carefully releasing the arrow... to then see the guy spin his head from the impact, and reveal a long arrow sticking out of his head, and fall off his mount. Just an absolute blast. I finished the game on hard, with no aim assistance at all, only gyro. The only challenges I couldn't finish were some of the final arena fights in the later tiers, but that was due to having such a short allotted amount of time to finish the fights.
10:29 i like how the reload animation is red but he’s on blu
Gyro aim is underrated
its funny how console players and devs completely neglect it
Ive always put down gyro controllers because my hands dont really stay still so my aim would just shake everywhere compared to a stick where its just. Yeah
@@Genjink you might be able to fix that issue with steam input, i believe there's a setting where you can set a minimum movement threshold so that your shaking won't actually move the crosshair. if you have to put it too high then it may mess with aiming but it'd be worth messing around with if you're interested
It hurt brain I dont like
@@Genjink Just put your arms on legs , that's the main position for gyro aiming
honestly it's disappointing how Sony put work to add gyro to their controllers only for it to barely be used, atleast not for aiming.
maybe there's been progress with ps5 games, but idk I don't own one.
if only we could all get the bad stigma surrounding gyro from the console community (not Nintendo) to go away..
Literally the largest reason why i play splatoon and fell in love with the series is the finetuned gyro-controlled. I really love it.
Play with a wii controller
I mean imagine if orange box was on the Wii that will be something
Bet
I play on a calculator
@@welikedominos6583 that would be cool tho ngl
Demoknight wii f2
Honestly, as a comp player I think scout would be very playable with this sort of controller setup. Vertical aiming would maybe be the largest challenge. Lots more big vertical flicks when both enemy soldiers are rocket jumping around like mad lads
I've been playing a whole life with controllers
But I can certainly say that DualShock 4's sticks are the most comfortable ones to use in shooters, the dead zone is so tiny that *almost* feels like playing with a keyboard
After playing Splatoon and BOTW all I could think of is "why is gyro aim not a standard in console fps yet!?" Maybe we'll be seeing a shift in the future.
You sir have uploaded a rare TF2 video for me
That is, it's introduced an entire detailed area of TF2 knowledge I simply have never heard of. wow
I've started using a controller a lot more because mouse and keyboard is starting to take a toll on my wrists. I wasn't expecting this level of depth in your controller discussion but it helps me find new ways to play the games I love without hurting my wrists!
Thanks a bunch for making this video. 💖
3:41 your thumb scares me more than a skilled player with 54 hours
Fun fact: A mayflash dolphinbar (a sensor for the wii remote, usually used for wii emulation) can actually let you use a wii remote and nunchuk as a mouse and keyboard. You use the wii remote sensor to aim, and use the nunchuk to move. I never tried fixing my binds and my computer drivers to make playable with tf2, but it's possible to play tf2 with a wii remote, you just gotta set up some stuff, almost like the steam controller settings
The fact that you use that one ost from Kill la Kill at 2:55 is pretty dope
another point in favor of flick-stick being legal is that I and many others have around a 2-5 inch 360, which means we can immediately turn around. It looks probably just as sus, but it's just high sens.
Also, really cool video! Never knew about gyro aiming. I'm trying to think about how movement might be hindered instead of aim and the first thing I thought off was cancelling movement while strafing on the ground. Maybe it's all still possible, but sometimes if I am in a fight, and let's so you're strafing to the right, you can hit "a" and you won't simply SLOW DOWN, you'll IMMEDIATELY STOP. This is very useful to mixup sometimes slowing, sometimes stopping. I suppose you could map a button, but you cannot have the stick be at both sides at once (whereas on a keyboard you can have "a" and "d" pressed simultaneously). I would argue it seems that having a separate button mapped to that would be less quick and intuitive, however, perhaps even that could be practiced to the same extent.
I also have misgivings about rocket jumping. As someone who has completed some T4 jump maps, some of the cardinal inputs you have to do in conjunction with aiming...maybe it's possible but it just seems like a controller would be a handicap. I don't have an argument though, it's just viiiiiiiiBBBbbbbbeeezzz
I've never tried Gyro aim, so if I end up with a controller for some reason, I'll give it a shot.
I mean, I play my games with a trackball (Logitech MX Ergo) nowadays, so I have what's basically a 0 inch 360 as the body of the trackball mouse unit sits in one comfy place and my thumb just rolls the ball quick and smooth or even send it spinning just about as fast as those spinbot snipers can rotate.
3:03 Holy shit I could see that scotsmans rave mask and neon dangeresque glasses from a mile away, fuckin good times.
I'm comin for yas arse's at I69
I literally never knew gyro aiming was even a thing. My 360 controller is garbage!
@@Peterscraps same here
Also hi peter
I've always loved the feeling of using and configuring controllers on games that wouldn't normally have controller controls. And to see someone destroy an entire server using only a controller and gyroscope, makes a tear fall from my eye.
We've seen motion controls go from a complete gimmick to a perfectly good input method and I think that's great.
This might be good with sniper since you can change your walking speed to throw off other experienced snipers and the snapping thing might make medic stronger since you can instantly turn around without too much effort
Solar, I need to thank you inspiring me to try out trimping, it is easily some of the most fun I have had in this game, and it remains massively funny to teleport behind a tryhard scout. Even if you don't kill them, you die knowing their blood pressure is no longer okay.
Ever since fortnite introduced gyro aiming I started shilling gyro aiming (which imo makes aim assist redundant now, as it was a bandaid solution to make controller equivalent to mkb), and I’m glad that now more people are getting convinced about how useful it is
This is the first time I have heard about gyro aim and flick stick today, neat! I do hope that this information is spread around more.
Top tier video. I've always liked the notion of conch trimping even after the turnspeed bug got patched, but I've never considered gyro.
although...now I'm considering TF2 on a Wiimote + Nunchuk, although you'd need a Wii Motion Plus since motes and chuks don't have gyro built in iirc
just use the wii remote with motion plus built in.
though i am curious to see how you'd play tf2 with the good old sensor bar, wiimote, and nunchuk.
The Hydra control scheme was pretty much exactly how Wii shooters controlled. I remember playing Metroid Prime 3 and Goldeneye and liking the shooting control better than normal twin stick aiming. The "shake to jump" feature on the Hydra wasn't really a thing with Wii shooters, but definitely inspired by the waggling of the whole Wii era.
Having used Gyro aiming for Splatoon, I have to say now I just straight-up can't play shooters on controller without it anymore. it's like night and day.
Also it's kinda interesting how Splatoon being a third-person game and also being designed from the ground up with gyro aiming in mind affects how it solves some of the problems of gyro aiming, since instead of having gyro ratcheting, you have a re-center button. You can even use it as a pseudo "turn around" button like what Resident Evil 4 had.
The fact that Splatoon is designed to be fairly approachable for younger players is also a factor in why it takes the approaches it does. Their approach of having a more normal right stick camera and a re-center button offers skilled players less control than flick stick and gyro ratcheting, but it also has a gentler learning curve.
and honestly I have to wonder if Microsoft not adopting gyro aiming is a big part of why people generally aren't as aware of it. It's a feature that should be as revolutionary for shooters as right stick aiming, but just didn't catch on to nearly the same degree, and I have to assume that part of it is developers not wanting to put resources into a feature that isn't available on one platform - especially as crossplay becomes more and more of an in-demand feature.
In the past, console/PC crossplay already had problems due to PC players having an advantage, but nowadays aim assist in a lot of games is strong enough to mitigate that. I assume a lot of devs wouldn't want to deliberately put in a feature that would also give Playstation players an inherent advantage against Xbox players (then again Fortnite gave that exact feature to Switch players)
It's increasingly becoming harder and harder to argue that gyro isn't being implemented due to development time. Gyro output technically can be read exactly like a mouse. That's how Steam treats the Dual Sense, and that doesn't require individual development and tuning on a per-game basis. The Nexus Xim DOES have that problem. Joystick input has to be outputted as displacement measurements. This means each game requires its own implementation and programming.
Splatoon is the BEST example of gyro, originally I used sticks only which hindered me unconsciously. After I switched to gyro a few months ago (I played the entire lifetime of Splatoon 1 with sticks btw) I inmediatly increased in capabilities and I went from losing almost every encounters to being able to go onto full teamwipes
Gyro is awesome, but Splatoon isn't maybe the best example of gyro in shooters; splatoon is a game that doesn't have a direct focus on aiming, from a design perspective; and aiming towards players is greatly helped by aim assist. Yes, it works really well, and Splatoon works a lot better with gyro than without, but in a practical setting it's a little different.
There are a lot better examples in my opinion, and Splatoon is awesome, but y'know
@@MixAndMash it's easily the best example since it's built up from gyro. Mainly helped by the fact that Splatoon has ZERO aim assist.
Splatoon has a lot of focus on aiming, especially for weapons like the blasters and especially the chargers which can easily miss of you overshoot or undershoot.
I know it sounds rude and I mean it in the most respectful way possible but. You have zero idea on what you're talking about
Watching the controller gameplay with the gyro stick feels like watching someone play tf2 on VR. The camera movements are really jittery and feel more human, less like the smooth movement of a mouse. Very cool.
Another cool thing about BotW is that flick stick sort of exists. Obviously there’s gyro aim (and it’s awesome), but if you use the left stick to face link in a direction and then hold down the shield button, it will make the camera look where link is looking. I was trying to explain to a friend who uses regular stick aim (somehow) why this is so helpful and I didn’t have a term to describe it.
Z targetting was in ocarina of time long before botw but I see you point
@@PorkSnorkle I actually haven’t played OoT (but I’ve played other Zelda games w/z-targeting). Does z-targeting in that game turn the camera even if there isn’t actually anything to target?
How is this different from camera resetting in games since, probably even the N64? (The thing that happens when you press the camera stick)
@@z.m.6053 yes, in fact it's your only form of camera control in that game.
You mean slowly turning the camera with the right stick doesn’t make you feel in control?
Moral of the story, no one on reddit knows what they are talking about.
i fucking love gyro aim and anyone who dismisses it because it's motion needs to stop being a baby and give it a real try. and flick stick is something i don't ever personally see myself using, but it's so goddamn cool and i love how much recognition its getting, i love seeing it discussed by more and more people
Cool. Now tell me, how do all that stuff on a PS5 ? Enabling Gyro aim sure, however enabling flick stick and binding a button to pause gyro aiming ? I haven´t been able to find anything on that.
@@gordonfeetman2425 on consoles it's entirely a game by game basis because that's just how consoles are, sony love wasting the potential of their controller by not including support for it. nintendo games and switch ports are the only console games that consistently have gyro support. flick stick is supported in a small handful of console games, but it's a long way from being a common feature still. for now at least if you want to be able to do this in any game you play you have to just play on pc
@@ralphthejedimaster Ok, thx :)
10:25, I'm rewatching this now and, HOW did I not notice that Solar's arm model here is that of a red Demoman while he's on Blu? That really confused me for a sec