I was kind of disappointed the rest of V wasn't like this. GZ might have had limited content, but the map was so well designed and fun to run around. Lots of ways to evade enemies but just as many to get trapped and cornered if you weren't careful
GZ really casted a shadow on TPPs locations. TTP has some really memorable places, like the airport, the place where you rescue Emerich, the diamond mine, the mansión, etc. But they all pale in comparison to GZ
I get where you’re coming from. I like the level too. I played this game recently and it made me wonder if the level was modeled after a real military base in Cuba.
@G3rq No it's not, but the design was inspired by the Hind D and Mi-28 Havoc, a fictional hybrid kinda design, like with all the weapons in GZ and TPP. I don't really understand why they went with tip toeing around real world stuff, but I suppose I can't blame anyone for wanting to step away from possible lawsuits. In 2017 the Humvee company tried suing Activision for having humvees in their game, so I guess it *can* happen.
@@NPC_GENERIC_ENEMY_INFANTRY I believe it was because of weapon customization, you can put a barrel from one gun onto another in some situations which may not be possible in real life and companies might not like having parts mixed with another company Weird legal stuff
Hard mode GZ is what TPP should have felt like, to me it always seemed like TPP was made to be more accessible, GZ also has a darkness to it that I think TPP missed the mark on, i dunno, I blame Konami and I’ll never forget what they did, it was ours and they took it from us.
I actually kinda like how ground zeros feels more than mgs5. Though of course mgs5 is more enjoyable. Escp with the GZ suit and the classic solid snake
It's almost like they planned to double down on the hyper realism but realized that I made the game less fun/ didn't lend itself very well to a sandbox bugger than Camp Omega.
One thing's for sure - stealth works better in more "enclosed" and industrialized environments, where there's more corners, blind spots etc etc. Besides, I was never a big fan of this whole kindergarten sim with the motherbase and resources/costs (I already hated Peace Walker for that)
@@averagejpegmafiafan GZ, though the camp is full of lights, actually has patches of darkness. Meanwhile the desert Afghanistan with no lights is permanently illuminated by the brightest full moon ever and it's at most twilight.
@@MarkArandjus some part of me wants to believe that was intentional to increase the inherent amount of invisibility you'd have at nighttime but now that I think about it, something about GZ's lighting just seems more dynamic
@@Skyrim_Thalia Well you aren't in MGS2 either but it doesn't change how the game feels compared to when you actually are Snake on the Tanker. Ground Zeroes feels like a different game in many ways.
@@Britishwolf89 different dosent always mean better in ground zeros ther is a lack of options in tpp there are so many options to tackle a situation i thought ground zeros was cool but should have been a prolouge to tpp my opion ground zeros is a bad game there is nothing to do
I feel like GZ and it’s reception allowed the team to refine the controls for TPP a bit. They’re both basically the same control scheme but jumping in particular feels a lot more fluid in TPP compared to GZ. Having said that I honestly prefer GZ, it feels much more MGS to me and the map is so perfectly designed and packed with content. I wish every single outpost, base and mission in TPP was as intricately designed as Camp Omega
It's actually since in GZ running and diving while going forward will result in snake getting back up and running, while in TPP he keeps crawling. That and the camera in GZ waits for you to fall and then moves down, while TPP's camera follows you as you fall.
@@imranmeco3393 glad they changed that crawling thing, the amount of times big boss got up and I got caught because I held my stick forward after a dive is a bit high. Also there's no roll after falling a certain height. And vehicles feel kinda odd to control in GZ compared to TPP (which makes sense considering you're mostly supposed to be on foot ig)
A big thing is that GZ has a further sight range than TPP, at least on hard mode. So you gotta be wayyy more careful because they spot you more easily... Also imo the single map on GZ is way better designed than any TPP location so it's far more interesting to traverse, easier to get spotted from many directions but with better obstacles and unique "terrain" such as the tents, vents etc. I wish TPP had more maps that were better designed, like dungeons with an open map for inbetween.
very true, i think the only location thats slightly similar to gz's map in tpp is okb zero. The slightly less open maps with more cover spots makes up for a better initial experience with the game imo, also helps in doing recon if youre trying to figure out an approach to perfect a mission or a base, etc.
the thing about that is that Ground Zeroes didn't have the smart difficulty system that TPP has...difficulty in TPP scales with each soldiers rank or with the adapting AI. Sight range differs hugely between soldier ranks. S soldiers and upwards are much more formiddable than the beginning of the game where most soldiers are E-C. For example if an E soldier catches a glimpse of you in the distance and you lay down flat he will stare for a while wondering and then does the "there's nothing there" and goes back to his business, an A soldier will look for a shorter duration and then slowly walk to where he spotted you, and S soldiers will call a nearby soldier for backup and they both will run towards where they spotted you and will look around that area for a little. Similar with cardboard boxes, in the beginning they are very useful and soldiers tend to ignore them if they don't see it moving, while after about 60+ hours they become almost useless as no soldier will leave any box unchecked and at some point they don't even walk up to the box and start shooting it from a few meters away. And there's much more that you might miss if you're not paying attention. If I had to make a bad point about TPPs enemies it's that it takes a little too long for them to become formiddable, apart from that there's no game that I know where enemies are remotely as smart as in lategame Phantom Pain. But while I love the fulton system I'd argue that it's the most noticable feature that makes TPP easier in certain regards...having to move sleeping/KO'd bodies into dumpsters or outhouses is so much better than simply ballooning everyone into the sky. It also trivialises any rescue missions that would be so much better if you had to carry them to the next landing area or clear out the outpost and have the chopper land there.
@@AgeofJP when it comes to vision, the guard's rank has no influence (FOBs may vary idk i never play them). they don't get "smarter," however having a sniper rifle, light, or turning on NVGs will enhance their view. and obviously weather/time of day makes a huge difference, but there are no circumstances in which regular guards can have as much of a view range as GZs hard mode, which iirc is set to 150%. calling another soldier to investigate for them isn't unique to S rank soldiers, but rather to "important" guards like mission targets. commanders and the like. regular guards on watchtowers will also do this, and if you raise suspicion of a group, there's a good chance multiple will move towards you at once. the difference in their reaction time to you comes down to how suspicious they are. if they already caught a glimpse of you, and then they catch another, they'll move to immediately investigate. on full alert, they'll spot you quickly instead of getting suspicious. finding a tranq'd guard won't raise caution, but finding a knocked out one will. like in previous games, they have tiered priorities, and may stop what they're doing if your actions break their chain of priority.
If only they would have released The Phantom Pain only on Xbox One and PS4 then it wouldn’t have been so limited in the amount of things that could be placed at any one location. Also we might’ve gotten that Mission with Liquid Snake and the Diamond Dogs.
nova braga airport, codetalker estate, the base where you get huey, and the first village you encounter were all more fun than the GZ base for me. aesthetically there wasnt much happening, just a brutalist outpost, some bland seaside terrain, and little else
The main reason it feels so strange compared to the phantom pain is because it was an experiment in storytelling where you would miss key story revelations about the base itself if you played only the main mission and moved on without collecting all the xof patches etc.. you literally can't get one of chico's tapes without holding up the right guy in a side mission. Because gz failed critically we will probably never see another attempt at an approach to story telling like this again.
The youtube channel Futurasound has an insane number of extremely detailed and well-researched literary analyses on MGSV, GZ, and even an 8 part series on Chico's Tapes. Having done just what you said (Main mission, moved on), those videos were a fucking revelation. There's so much more to GZ than I ever could have imagined. Highly recommend checking that channel out.
My first Metal Gear game was TPP and I was incredibly confused but kept trudging on because I enjoyed the base development stuff. I didn’t even realize I was limiting my options in gameplay until I watched a video criticizing it for the tranq extract loop. Much later I decided to play the Metal Gear games in order of the timeline, without having played the other games. (I have heard most of the story though) Now I’m on Ground Zeroes and it feels like a more difficult Peace Walker, I’m having more fun then I’ve ever had with a stealth game. It’s strange how I actually had to learn how to have fun, since I’m more of a third person action game kind of guy, Snake Eater and Peace Walker showed me that taking the same route every time and only using the safest tactics leads to a boring experience. Now in GZ I genuinely feel like a soldier worthy of the title Boss.
Something similar happened to me years ago, it all started with dark souls 1 for me, after a friend introduced me to it, and having then beaten it myself I started watching videos both criticising or praising the difficult games and souls like games. I kind of silently realized that I actually pretty much enjoy challenges in videogames, and that's why for example I'm replaying tpp using all sorts of tactics, no hud, and mods like no health regen first aid revamp ammo and suppressor rebalance etc, it's pretty fun honestly
@@catzor4795I don’t really mind that aspect of the game it took a long time playing the game before I get to that level of competency playing the game same could be said for any of the metal gear games of course but at least you aren’t fighting the controls anywhere as much as the older games and have to deal with camera angles where I had no choice but to use the first person mode just to see what is further then the 10 feet the map and the radar allowed me to see
I got both on a "super sale". I paid less than $5 for both. I played MGSV first, then GZ, and, yes, while they are VERY different games, I STILL enjoy both. To this day! I love saving that operative, what's his name? Kideo, Hojima, or something like that?
A tighter map with more meaningful areas to sneak around certainly helped contribute to that. Phantom Pain had way too much open space, shitty areas to hide and exploit in favor of sandbox gameplay and dynamic environments, and no real sense of objective since it was open world and most missions weren't entirely linear in a traditional sense.
@@mercury2157 this is both good and bad, because it can expand the ways you can complete a mission, but withouth some leadings its reaky hard do missions on a original way or in a "Metal Gear Solid" way
@@icookchildrenandeatthem9085 I still love it and find it one of the greatest games in a long time. Lots of ways to play but do agree on certain parts of this!
Movement in Phantom Pain is a definite upgrade over Ground Zeroes with one specific exception. In GZ, there are different standing up animations depending on if you were initially laying on your back or your stomach. In Phantom Pain, you just roll onto your stomach and stand the same way when starting on your back. Kind of lame that they removed it because it actually did look pretty slick in GZ.
@@spikey288 But you're not in there most of the time, though. You're more likely to traverse around big AOs on foot or horseback. There's nothing wrong with that, though.
@@TITANia69420 I don't know about that...I usually just go to the mission areas right away by chopper...so I didn't do much "traversing" outside of missions.
The only thing better than TPP that GZ has is your chopper. Morpho is one sexy hind. Yet the Blackhawk gives you more of a covert feel. Which it should since boss should be finishing a mission by himself no problem. While morpho is designed to be support. A beefy chopper dropping a stealth king off is a bit off. But really love both choppers
I personally think that Phantom Pain, as far as game design goes, should've simply been a bigger Ground Zeroes. While it would suck to do away with a lot of the creative and wacky stuff you could do in Phantom Pain's open world, I don't consider it a worthy trade-off to the type of raw Metal Gear stealth and level design present in Ground Zeroes.
yeah like a true metal gear experience is better then any other experience out there,hell i even spend most of my time in mgs 5 fobs which is so tightly packed and difficult
@@uraveragewiteguy Africa is really boring but Afghanistan looks great, should have skipped Africa and spent recourses on mountain climbing. Even then sides ops are just meh and general challenge of open world is literally absent
Yea i agree , it should had a smaller a more focused world , like self contained sandboxes maybe . GZ feels much more like a traditional MG experience .
Well yeah. Two different games. Lol. Why do u think they sold it full price as a full game originally. They made it fluid af control wise on mgsv. It still felt a little experimental in GZ… Honestly tho I don’t mind. I love MGS3 and the controls are garbage. Pisses me off that they made a definitive PW control mode with crouch walking on the 3DS and that Nintendo garbage can’t even RUN It 😂. But if the game story & game play & stuff is immersive and fun & engaging. That’s all that matters. Love Kojima.
It's a tough one. GZ while still detailed was a glorified Tech demo to get people to pre order TPP and get Konami to keep the budget. Kojima by the end of the dev cycle spent like 500million last time I checked (going back 6 years ago) and Konami wasnt having it. They were greedy and limited Kojima's creativity. TPP feels empty, lifeless in what's supposed to be active battlefields. Outside of the random outposts and the main outposts nothing really happens. You're either running from checkpoint to checkpoint so you can go straight back to the ACC (If you hit a checkpoint at anytime outside of a mission you can go cut out calling the heli and be in the command centre free of charge in 10 seconds. Handy tip don't forget) or dicking around with every tool at your disposal Side ops copy the same formula as Ubisoft and litter the same activity 20-30 times around the map. Once you've played one you've played them all. However there are some unique side ops like legendary gunsmith, capture the brown bear etc To me, I thought TPP was going to have a bunch of random battles taking place at anytime like in mgs4's act 1&2 where you can help the rebels, kill the rebels or kill everyone. Rebels in TPP would of given you useful Intel about upcoming missions, weapons, gear ect, give you gmp or locations of where they got reserve caches of gmp and other useful items like resources or they'd be terrified of you especially with the skulls patrolling regularly and anything that isn't one of their buddies are KoS. Idk, I feel like mgsv could of been so much more and I don't buy it that Kojima himself thinks what he created is the complete product. That there's nothing else to add to the game. I'm fairly certain Kojima only said that was to give his fans closure to stop worrying and waiting for something that'll never come
I had the same impression. Looks like The Phantom Pain has more visual effect on camera (when you sprint or dodge for example) and motions are more polished. I think BB is a little slower that Venom, but not completely sure about that
i think they decided to streamline a lot of stuff from ground zeros like the scope target marking time, animations and even some AI rework, ground zeros AI feels a bit slow in reacting to say me killing a soldier in front of them but it still makes up for a really good experience and just shows how good the fox engine can be even in its early stages
@@lady_deaths_head There are staff members more skilled than you in some aspects so it is possible that venom is a really good all rounder. Can't tell though
GZ had the perfect scale, putting it in the same vein as immersive sims like Dishonored. I like a little structure in my level, some routines besides just a day night cycle and an extremely rare truck passing through.
The mechanics as you know feel different, this was early stages of development and as they moved too mgsv phantom pain, running and combat changed. This was being developed in.... 2011-2012. I play this more often then phantom pain becouse it has this campy feel too it.
I thought this video was about the controls, I went to Ground Zeroes after completing every Main and Side Op in TPP, I found I absolutely hated how GZ controls, everything just felt wrong, I’m not sure how to explain it, such as the dive not boosting you anywhere near as far forward as it should and the crawl being too slow
Yep. No idea what anyone is referring to here when saying it feels more like mgs than tpp. To me it's just worse tpp and that's the point. It was a drawing board
if you leave the stick in a neutral position, big boss will stay on the ground in gz, where if you move the stick during the dive, he'll get back up. I like having the option between the two in gz
@@3babylon3 Well also in ground zeroes it's fine, personally I like it better in tpp because if, for example, you're very injured and they're shooting at you, you can cover yourself more easily in coverage, worse, well, the one from ground zeroes I really love
I appreciated GZ so much when it came out. Hell even to this day over 7 years later it feels ahead of it’s time. Still okay MGSV a couple times a week.
I get the point of key differences in both games. But a difference i think worth mentioning is that between Big Boss and Venum snake "The msf medic" In ground zeroes you play as Big boss himself and his abilities Is similar to Venum snake only that Venum's skills and performance becomes better than Big Boss himself due to him spending more time infiltrating bases and become handy with the equipments that the Motherbase provides. His speed of sprint changes, He utilizes his CQC the best than any other snake i ever seen, His strength Is incredible due to him being able to carry soldiers on his back while sprinting and or even crouching just about fine. So while Big Boss was laying low I believe that we witnessed Venum truly surpassed his Mentor but due to old age he gets overcome by Solid snake which where solid was way younger and more flexible than him and led venum to his defeat.
@@birdsteak9267 You could say that, I believe what Mr. Kojima tried to deliver in his message. If you love someone so much and inspire be like them, You don't have to be exactly be like them and Its not impossible, You can be the better version of them. So no achieving dreams Isnt impossible with dedication and self discipline, Everything will be possible In time
I think BB intentionally sent solid snake in MG1 not to assassinate venom but just to see which one is the superior snake (and then kill the one that survives). He definitely wanted both of them dead but considering how evil he'd become, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to test his "creations" instead of just killing them off quickly. I kinda wish konami remastered MG1 & 2 since they can add more to the story between BB, venom, and young solid snake
@@oetz_p Ofcourse! Big Boss did sent solid to test out whos the superior snake, He had low expectations for solid to survive and there's a comic even himself says it when venom at brink of death through the radio. Ngl im dying for mgs 1,2,3,4 remake too the feeling is mutual
Man I wish this game had the default classic peace walker fatigue. You all know what uniform I'm talking about...... snakes default peace walker skin. That would bring back some childhood memories.
I had soo much fun completing GZ before TTP! Completing all tasks and missions on the GZ phone app for extra content in TTP !! Could had been soo much more ! None the less many fun hours spent ! I remember finishing the main mission in 5m but spent like 400 hrs in this game🐍
My wife gave me GZ and PP as a birthday gift just before we celebrated our first aniversary. Liked GZ quite alot. And played alot more PP, but as a package, GZ was better.
The Phantom Pain, while technically impressive, feels isolated from the rest of the series to me. Even before the "big reveal" at the end, the whole game felt disconnected and far removed from everything else. "Oh, man! We get a whole base with our own soldiers?" You sure do, but they don't matter. You can't interact with them in any meaningful way. Even the primary supporting characters barely feel connected to Snake. It didn't help that he hardly speaks two sentences together. It felt like standing alone at a crowded party. The whole thing comes off as lonely. You aren't some legendary soldier leading his men to victory. You're a one-man army and 98% of your staff are glorified security guards. "You've written your own history." Sure doesn't feel like it. Feels like I was a side act to the main story; running around doing whatever while the real plot was taking place elsewhere. TPP is a whole hell of a lot of fun, but man, did the story fall flat for me.
Ground Zeros from a core mechanics standpoint really is bizarre. Certain things like guards being more responsive, weighty movement, more accurate weapons but with more bullet drop, and many missing QOL options from TTP make GZ feel distinct from its brother despite being similar on the surface. It's the result of taking what essentially was a beta MGSV and polishing a section of it for public release. A lot of these things are merely preference, but some aspects I can't deny were superior is the level and mission design. The open world of TPP meant you couldn't have missions like the ones in GZ. A real shame considering the open world added very little to TPP in my opinion.
Should have gone with a bigger qorld building based on MGS3 principle of having the world chopped up into sections, you leave one area > Load > another area, this will Grant each Map far more available resources, each map the same size as GZ or bigger. MGS was better when it had the "Corridor style" open world and it would offer better level designs with nuances in challenges. No MGS fan would ve disappointed by that, it's basically what MGS always was.
What I personally noticed is that in TPP you feel more “light”. You can make quick adjustments in movement pretty easily, which the best way to explain would probably be turning. When you turn in TPP it feels very immediate and responsive but in GZ it feels slower and that you have to be more careful as to not overshoot or undershoot. In TPP when you sprint you feel like you can stop and/or aim your weapon pretty fluidly while in GZ it again feels sluggish. Overall I’m glad they changed how the controls feel in TPP because “Big Boss” shouldn’t feel so limited in movement
That is such a great point !!! You know I’ve got 3000 hours into mgsv and didn’t even connect mgs1 and mgs5 in that way I always just thought 1 was indoors the other is out but god now that you said that it’s like someone saying you’re now breathing manually I wish 5 had big indoor sections too or at least different that what it is
the point of the game is to be stealthy til u get caught, & once that happens you kill everybody til u die (if you die) then restart the whole mission bc u cant be fufilled by restarting by checkpoint.
Yeah for some reason GZ feels like a real Metal Gear and TPP just feels…off. GZ actually feels like a good continuation of Peace Walker. I love them both though.
It was always my headcanon that since you play as two different characters (Big Boss in Ground Zeros and Venom Snake in MGS5) it would make sense that they control different. As they are different individuals with their own styles and techniques.
@@Type1-2 Yeah I know that. That's why I believe the controls of Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain are different because you are essentially controlling two different people.
People called me stupid for having over 55 hours in GZ. Everything about it was amazing, I'd call it perfect if it had just a littleee bit more content. Glad it's not a controversial opinion to say GZ>TPP now
Feels weightier the cqc is better you can flip them mid punch combo as to not finish it past cover and reveal yourself I wish too had alot of maps like omega and didn't go open world.
tbh i like the open world elements in tpp more bc it creates a much more dynamic environment where the AI adapts to the decisions you make during each deployment, but yeah i get what you mean i wouldve liked bigger bases like camp omega too
@@averagejpegmafiafan yeah I understand but it was best during camp omega and also the soundtrack for gz was amazing and I preferred the peace walker era actual BB base your own metal gear being able to fight it and do coop
@@alexparker2353 soundtrack was lit ngl, here's to you during the ground zeros mission and then the weighted score for the other missions really made the game feel intense
@@averagejpegmafiafan the best mgs mission I ever played must have been destroy the anti air emplacements it has the perfect build up of tension grabbing the optional prisoner defeating the armoured vehicle via a trap rockets or the mines on the cliff edge then collecting all the prisoners within the 3 minute time limit before the camp is blown to bits as you barley avoid the bomber jets it's kino
@@averagejpegmafiafan That's because Harry Gregson William's composed the score for GZ but didn't come back for TPP, so a lot of the tracks don't have the punch they are supposed to
Chopper door in GZ (1975): Super futuristic space airlock operated by a push button Chopper door in TPP (1984): Rusty sliding door that Snake has to manually pull shut. Both games: Holographic iDroid with technology we don't even have yet in 2022.
The gz one is actually just a modified version of the doors on the mi 24, but they dont open by a push button irl i think theyre to be manually opened. In tpp its just a UH60 Black hawk and it is a pretty accurate portrayal of the helicopter including the door. The idroid is the only unrealistic aspect here but atleast it looks cool
@@averagejpegmafiafan I think it's more just strange that the in-universe helicopter door tech seemingly went backwards in the nine years between GZ and TPP.
While an old video I want to add my thoughts to this, while GZ has a single map, I felt like I could tell you where you are from a single picture, while TPP I found the area you fight quite in I was like wait it was here ? TPP had better control and animations as GZ felt sluggish to play at, Wish we had more in door levels and large base type missions, while it’s a huge world if felt so empty, like oh a guard post, like all others, and the enemies didn’t feel threatening, hard just makes them one shot you or nearly, I wish I was give a very hard base to infiltrate where finding the smallest chance to slip in and start planning my route and escape, but most of the times I could walk nearly next to them, GZ npc would find you way easier… TPP was amazing but it could have been so much more, maybe the sudden firing of kojima didn’t allow the team to notice these problems? Who knows. Sorry for the long rant.
tbh Gz animations are more heavy? let's say that but it did feel weighty and BB was slower than Venom. But I did like how heavy it felt. But GZ has better hud. AI is brutal in GZ too
@@TobiGame1 I never felt any danger even i get caught in PP but GZ was definitely was something else I didn't wanted to be caught. Also Americans Soldiers in GZ felt more dangerous than Russians ever did in PP. I wish PP had atmopshere and night, heavy weight and a few unique animations from GZ.
I get that people like to pretend that gz is better than phantom pain. But fact is, it's the inferior product with less content. Worse gameplay. Dumber A.i. 🤷
At times, Ground Zeroes felt like it was Peace Walker Part II but on the Fox Engine. It really expanded the experience gameplay wise after having played Peace Walker and so for me I consider it to be a way more MGS experience compared to The Phantom Pain.
This game is slower paced because it’s so small. On my first try I got into the back of a truck and ended up sitting for hours on the back. You look for your objectives but study patterns. That’s how I found Paz my total accident. I feel it’s lacking but I’m no game designer or programmer. But fox engine is so smooth
I see a lot of people complaining about the "large enemy compound" aspect of GZ when compared to TPP, but people forget that invading other players mother base is pretty much on par with the location of GZ, albeit it's more of an online aspect more so than story in some sense.
I spent 38 hours on playing mgsv and 50 hours on playing ground zeroes LOL. GZ is kinda better in some aspects! The stealth gameplay is dynamic and the map is more detailed and diverse. Strange how a demo version could hook me up that much. BTW I LOVED morpho! I wish I could have the hind in MGSV as an alternative to UH-60
Ground zeroes was awesome. The more confined maps were an excellent playground to explore. V was brill also it just could have benefitted from being on a smaller scale - not every game needs GTA level maps you can just end up with a whole lot of nothing.
I remember pre-ordering ground zeros and I didn't own a ps4 yet, it sat on my shelf for about a year unopened. I loved the idea it had special bonuses for MGSV. Finally I got my PS4 and I got to play it. I remember it feeling so smooth so capable you could play it out how you want. I don't think we will get an alternate universe military espionage game with this level of "you do you" again.
TPP just needed some more enemy patrols and encounters between outposts and compounds, really sucks how they barely had anything interesting going on between outposts when they could have easily slapped any sort of random assets playing around in some random encounter or event that would have been great. Areas unrelated to some of the better missions would have done great to have the same tight security with fewer safe openings. While TPP lost itself with the base management power scaling you to being a terminator, but thats fun in a few specific missions. The interesting challenges of extracting people via heli definitely makes fultons seem cheap and boring in the game loop.
i think the phantom pain shouldve just been closed bespoke missions with unique maps, expanding everything to a full open world was a waste of development resources that couldve gone into handcrafting more levels like Ground Zeroes which is what the fox engine is actually best at. imagine a version of "hellbound" where you had to sneak through quiet's killzone and two soviet bases while carrying emmerich, and support functions were unavailable because of the soviets' air security. imagine a version of "where do the bees sleep" where you were racing to get across the valley and through da smasei laman before the soviets could find evidence of the honeybee's existence, and you would have to find clues on where it was hidden for every playthrough, all without getting spotted once. imagine if the "lord of the flies" level were finished, and you had to finish an entire mission without any lethal weapons - or imagine a version of "code talker" where XOF agents working for Cipher were specifically on guard for diamond dogs, and you had to complete the mission completely OSP and without leaving a single trace of your presence. imagine different climates, different enemy types, different SKULL boss fights. i think the game would have been far more replayable and memorable if the missions were all to the standard set by the Ground Zeroes main mission, and it's a shame because it feels like so much of the fox engine's potential for a stealth game was just missed due to poor creative priorities, presumably because of konami
tbf after you get through the first like 10 missions in tpp i think most people realize that they can beat every level without any air support or supply drops lol
I swear I only used air support cus Pequad looks really cool with its flight mechanics. Other than that it's all easy without him if you're into mgs as a stealth game
This felt like what Phantom Pain should've been. The open world design of Phantom Pain sort of kneecapped what you could do in those environments, but Cuba felt like a perfect mix of a Peace Walker and Portable Ops map. There was so much you could do here because of the small size. Imagine the jungle in Africa with this size. People would've loved the hell out of it. Sorry to rant or complain, but I really like the gameplay and overall design of Ground Zeroes.
It’s amazing how boring and unsatisfying GZ was yet TPP was one of the best games of all time. I guess they just needed a trial run to understand the game design.
I am very surprised by your comments so mgs 5 with a lot of nature and open terrain feels more like a sequel to mgs 3 which is filled with a lot of nature environment and which is the best metal gear solid game according to 90% of those who ranked the franchise, yet in comments you say that you like more ground zeroes which is more like mgs 1 game my fave game ever is mgs 1 but mgs 5 terrain is absolutely perfect and realistic, with a lot of open space and a lot of nature around enemies with only a few objects you can hide behind, for me that is far better than thousands of objects everywhere around and only few plants and grass tho i am also not so surprised because many of you living in the city and you got used to not normal way of living and not being surrounded by the nature and many living things other than humans i always prefer nature, no matter the game i want to see a lot of nature around me while playing, the more the better that is what made crysis and far cry being epic games, also just cause, the witcher and horizon zero dawn and other similar games for example mass effect trilogy has almost zero nature in it, and its a great game, but imagine if half of the game was happening in the nature, it would be 300 times better game
Gz was little bit harder then TPP because you had to truly use stealth. TPP you had more open world and little bit of freedom on getting caught bit still get s ranking. The mission on GZ were different kinda like peacewalker while tpp can seem bit the same especially the side mission. This why I think GZ was little bit better tpp. TPP could probably been alot better. You can tell Kojima was burned out Metal Gear. The time frame the Konami give Kojima was probably a bit short and there was alot cut content. Especially on Ch2.
It clearly shows that they had much more time to optimise and perfect the gameplay and map design in Ground Zeroes. The Phantom Pain is much bigger but because the game is incomplete it is also much more flawed compared to this.
It feels different than PP? Well yeah, Ground Zeros was a polished, %100 finished title whereas Phantom Pain is unfinished, unpolished, and half baked.
I like mgsv as a game but their sense of story progression is probably the worst I’ve ever seen in an open world game. I tried committing to this game twice with over 20 hours put in and just got bored with the pointless mandatory side missions
Well of course.. GZ was a demo.. a sold demo none the less. This was to raise awareness for TPP.. Honestly I would have rather had a full remade Metal Gear Solid. That game just hurts.. hearing it, seeing it, thinking about it.. Pure work of art. Such a beautiful thing that sadly marked a dying time...
Originally gz was ment to be alot longer than what it was when it came out kind of wished we got at least 5 to 8 main missions leading up to the GZ mission
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
I was kind of disappointed the rest of V wasn't like this. GZ might have had limited content, but the map was so well designed and fun to run around. Lots of ways to evade enemies but just as many to get trapped and cornered if you weren't careful
GZ really casted a shadow on TPPs locations. TTP has some really memorable places, like the airport, the place where you rescue Emerich, the diamond mine, the mansión, etc. But they all pale in comparison to GZ
I get where you’re coming from. I like the level too. I played this game recently and it made me wonder if the level was modeled after a real military base in Cuba.
@@DialloMoore503 lol it is Guantanamo
@@Cory989
Oh, okay.
LOL!!
Did Guantanamo look like that in real life?
I know it’s been closed down.
@@DialloMoore503 probably a lose recreation. Doubt they have blueprints of that thing sitting around for the world to see haha
In GZ you can still hear optimism in Kaz's voice
Hmm. Sad…
He still had limbs
Miller is really sad m8…
Ruff
I dont blame the man, dude went through hell
I love how Morpho is still one of the Hind D's from Peace Walker. Nice attention to detail.
@G3rq No it's not, but the design was inspired by the Hind D and Mi-28 Havoc, a fictional hybrid kinda design, like with all the weapons in GZ and TPP.
I don't really understand why they went with tip toeing around real world stuff, but I suppose I can't blame anyone for wanting to step away from possible lawsuits.
In 2017 the Humvee company tried suing Activision for having humvees in their game, so I guess it *can* happen.
@@NPC_GENERIC_ENEMY_INFANTRY I believe it was because of weapon customization, you can put a barrel from one gun onto another in some situations which may not be possible in real life and companies might not like having parts mixed with another company
Weird legal stuff
Hard mode GZ is what TPP should have felt like, to me it always seemed like TPP was made to be more accessible, GZ also has a darkness to it that I think TPP missed the mark on, i dunno, I blame Konami and I’ll never forget what they did, it was ours and they took it from us.
The gun sounds in GZ have a beefy sound to them. TPP for some reason doesn’t sound as good.
In gz it didn’t feel smooth but in TPP knocking out a guy felt smooth and somewhat amazing in my opinion
No doubt. The controls in TPP are smooth as butter. I was just talking about the gun sounds
@@delowg7805 Yeah I guess your right
TPP didn't need to be open world...
I actually kinda like how ground zeros feels more than mgs5. Though of course mgs5 is more enjoyable. Escp with the GZ suit and the classic solid snake
feels like a classical MGS1 mission
I still had more fun with GZ than I did with the entirety of TPP.
I actually played PP before GZ
while I enjoyed the hell out of GZ I still find PP underwhelming
PP feels like it is missing something
It's almost like they planned to double down on the hyper realism but realized that I made the game less fun/ didn't lend itself very well to a sandbox bugger than Camp Omega.
One thing's for sure - stealth works better in more "enclosed" and industrialized environments, where there's more corners, blind spots etc etc. Besides, I was never a big fan of this whole kindergarten sim with the motherbase and resources/costs (I already hated Peace Walker for that)
Something I'm now realizing is that the night is actually dark in GZ.
night is darker in tpp imo, i found the lighting in gz quite artificial especially during daytime, looks way too saturated imo.
@@averagejpegmafiafan GZ, though the camp is full of lights, actually has patches of darkness. Meanwhile the desert Afghanistan with no lights is permanently illuminated by the brightest full moon ever and it's at most twilight.
@@MarkArandjus some part of me wants to believe that was intentional to increase the inherent amount of invisibility you'd have at nighttime but now that I think about it, something about GZ's lighting just seems more dynamic
@@MarkArandjus I always played the game at the lowest brightness option cause of that
TPP is more dark what do you mean lol.
Ground zero feels like some classic solid snake action.
this
@@averagejpegmafiafan if you think about it in tpp your not really snake
@@Skyrim_Thalia Well you aren't in MGS2 either but it doesn't change how the game feels compared to when you actually are Snake on the Tanker. Ground Zeroes feels like a different game in many ways.
@@Britishwolf89 different dosent always mean better in ground zeros ther is a lack of options in tpp there are so many options to tackle a situation i thought ground zeros was cool but should have been a prolouge to tpp my opion ground zeros is a bad game there is nothing to do
It's even more classic than that. This is the real deal, The Big Boss himself.
I feel like GZ and it’s reception allowed the team to refine the controls for TPP a bit. They’re both basically the same control scheme but jumping in particular feels a lot more fluid in TPP compared to GZ. Having said that I honestly prefer GZ, it feels much more MGS to me and the map is so perfectly designed and packed with content. I wish every single outpost, base and mission in TPP was as intricately designed as Camp Omega
Totally agree.
It's actually since in GZ running and diving while going forward will result in snake getting back up and running, while in TPP he keeps crawling.
That and the camera in GZ waits for you to fall and then moves down, while TPP's camera follows you as you fall.
@@imranmeco3393 glad they changed that crawling thing, the amount of times big boss got up and I got caught because I held my stick forward after a dive is a bit high.
Also there's no roll after falling a certain height. And vehicles feel kinda odd to control in GZ compared to TPP (which makes sense considering you're mostly supposed to be on foot ig)
I've always said TPP should have been 5-10 levels of a similar scale to GZ
Aiming feels much better in TPP as well. It feels like trying to steer a truck in Ground Zeroes.
A big thing is that GZ has a further sight range than TPP, at least on hard mode. So you gotta be wayyy more careful because they spot you more easily...
Also imo the single map on GZ is way better designed than any TPP location so it's far more interesting to traverse, easier to get spotted from many directions but with better obstacles and unique "terrain" such as the tents, vents etc.
I wish TPP had more maps that were better designed, like dungeons with an open map for inbetween.
very true, i think the only location thats slightly similar to gz's map in tpp is okb zero. The slightly less open maps with more cover spots makes up for a better initial experience with the game imo, also helps in doing recon if youre trying to figure out an approach to perfect a mission or a base, etc.
the thing about that is that Ground Zeroes didn't have the smart difficulty system that TPP has...difficulty in TPP scales with each soldiers rank or with the adapting AI. Sight range differs hugely between soldier ranks.
S soldiers and upwards are much more formiddable than the beginning of the game where most soldiers are E-C. For example if an E soldier catches a glimpse of you in the distance and you lay down flat he will stare for a while wondering and then does the "there's nothing there" and goes back to his business, an A soldier will look for a shorter duration and then slowly walk to where he spotted you, and S soldiers will call a nearby soldier for backup and they both will run towards where they spotted you and will look around that area for a little.
Similar with cardboard boxes, in the beginning they are very useful and soldiers tend to ignore them if they don't see it moving, while after about 60+ hours they become almost useless as no soldier will leave any box unchecked and at some point they don't even walk up to the box and start shooting it from a few meters away. And there's much more that you might miss if you're not paying attention.
If I had to make a bad point about TPPs enemies it's that it takes a little too long for them to become formiddable, apart from that there's no game that I know where enemies are remotely as smart as in lategame Phantom Pain.
But while I love the fulton system I'd argue that it's the most noticable feature that makes TPP easier in certain regards...having to move sleeping/KO'd bodies into dumpsters or outhouses is so much better than simply ballooning everyone into the sky. It also trivialises any rescue missions that would be so much better if you had to carry them to the next landing area or clear out the outpost and have the chopper land there.
@@AgeofJP when it comes to vision, the guard's rank has no influence (FOBs may vary idk i never play them). they don't get "smarter," however having a sniper rifle, light, or turning on NVGs will enhance their view. and obviously weather/time of day makes a huge difference, but there are no circumstances in which regular guards can have as much of a view range as GZs hard mode, which iirc is set to 150%.
calling another soldier to investigate for them isn't unique to S rank soldiers, but rather to "important" guards like mission targets. commanders and the like. regular guards on watchtowers will also do this, and if you raise suspicion of a group, there's a good chance multiple will move towards you at once.
the difference in their reaction time to you comes down to how suspicious they are. if they already caught a glimpse of you, and then they catch another, they'll move to immediately investigate. on full alert, they'll spot you quickly instead of getting suspicious. finding a tranq'd guard won't raise caution, but finding a knocked out one will. like in previous games, they have tiered priorities, and may stop what they're doing if your actions break their chain of priority.
If only they would have released The Phantom Pain only on Xbox One and PS4 then it wouldn’t have been so limited in the amount of things that could be placed at any one location. Also we might’ve gotten that Mission with Liquid Snake and the Diamond Dogs.
nova braga airport, codetalker estate, the base where you get huey, and the first village you encounter were all more fun than the GZ base for me. aesthetically there wasnt much happening, just a brutalist outpost, some bland seaside terrain, and little else
The main reason it feels so strange compared to the phantom pain is because it was an experiment in storytelling where you would miss key story revelations about the base itself if you played only the main mission and moved on without collecting all the xof patches etc.. you literally can't get one of chico's tapes without holding up the right guy in a side mission. Because gz failed critically we will probably never see another attempt at an approach to story telling like this again.
The youtube channel Futurasound has an insane number of extremely detailed and well-researched literary analyses on MGSV, GZ, and even an 8 part series on Chico's Tapes. Having done just what you said (Main mission, moved on), those videos were a fucking revelation. There's so much more to GZ than I ever could have imagined. Highly recommend checking that channel out.
@@insanelyheinousbeefer oh I'm well aware
I think it was a good thing ground zeroes was a failure. I mean. 40 dollars for 1 hour of content? F outta here. 😂
@@frogglen6350 you do know games used to be an hour long and $40 all the time in the 8bit era
@@shawnwilliams1917 yeah. And AVGN pointed out why that was terrible
My first Metal Gear game was TPP and I was incredibly confused but kept trudging on because I enjoyed the base development stuff. I didn’t even realize I was limiting my options in gameplay until I watched a video criticizing it for the tranq extract loop.
Much later I decided to play the Metal Gear games in order of the timeline, without having played the other games. (I have heard most of the story though)
Now I’m on Ground Zeroes and it feels like a more difficult Peace Walker, I’m having more fun then I’ve ever had with a stealth game. It’s strange how I actually had to learn how to have fun, since I’m more of a third person action game kind of guy, Snake Eater and Peace Walker showed me that taking the same route every time and only using the safest tactics leads to a boring experience. Now in GZ I genuinely feel like a soldier worthy of the title Boss.
Glad the game turned around for you
Something similar happened to me years ago, it all started with dark souls 1 for me, after a friend introduced me to it, and having then beaten it myself I started watching videos both criticising or praising the difficult games and souls like games.
I kind of silently realized that I actually pretty much enjoy challenges in videogames, and that's why for example I'm replaying tpp using all sorts of tactics, no hud, and mods like no health regen first aid revamp ammo and suppressor rebalance etc, it's pretty fun honestly
I’m trying to play peace walker but something about it is off. I feel like it’s the movement of snake for me
"Tranq extract loop" is a personal problem. Just don't do it if you don't like it or think it's too easy.
@@catzor4795I don’t really mind that aspect of the game it took a long time playing the game before I get to that level of competency playing the game same could be said for any of the metal gear games of course but at least you aren’t fighting the controls anywhere as much as the older games and have to deal with camera angles where I had no choice but to use the first person mode just to see what is further then the 10 feet the map and the radar allowed me to see
I got both on a "super sale". I paid less than $5 for both. I played MGSV first, then GZ, and, yes, while they are VERY different games, I STILL enjoy both. To this day! I love saving that operative, what's his name? Kideo, Hojima, or something like that?
yep, the man himself, hideo kojima.
@@averagejpegmafiafan Hell yeah! Eyewear by J.F. Rey!
lmao
@@gandalfstormcrow7943 First there was Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello, Michaelangelo and all the other -turtles- master artists. Then came Hideo!
Jared Kajimbo
GZ feels a lot more like an MGS game than TPP.
A tighter map with more meaningful areas to sneak around certainly helped contribute to that. Phantom Pain had way too much open space, shitty areas to hide and exploit in favor of sandbox gameplay and dynamic environments, and no real sense of objective since it was open world and most missions weren't entirely linear in a traditional sense.
@@mercury2157 this is both good and bad, because it can expand the ways you can complete a mission, but withouth some leadings its reaky hard do missions on a original way or in a "Metal Gear Solid" way
i always thought so to. was tpp supposed to be as detailed as gz and it got dropped?
@@nunyanunya4147 tpp is detailed but he is like. 60% or 50% complete, it realy was gonna be one of the greatest game with a realy long playtime
@@icookchildrenandeatthem9085 I still love it and find it one of the greatest games in a long time. Lots of ways to play but do agree on certain parts of this!
Movement in Phantom Pain is a definite upgrade over Ground Zeroes with one specific exception. In GZ, there are different standing up animations depending on if you were initially laying on your back or your stomach. In Phantom Pain, you just roll onto your stomach and stand the same way when starting on your back. Kind of lame that they removed it because it actually did look pretty slick in GZ.
I dunno, in GZ it feels as if you're alone and surrounded in an Enemy Compound.
In MGSV, you're not really in an Enemy Compound most of the time.
You're traversing the map on horseback or in a truck between missions in TPP most of the time
There are plenty of enemy compounds in TPP...
@@spikey288 But you're not in there most of the time, though. You're more likely to traverse around big AOs on foot or horseback.
There's nothing wrong with that, though.
@@TITANia69420 I’ve spent countless hours in enemy compounds.... the beauty of mgsv is it’s open world, you get to choose where you go.
@@TITANia69420 I don't know about that...I usually just go to the mission areas right away by chopper...so I didn't do much "traversing" outside of missions.
2:01 the kid named finger:
The only thing better than TPP that GZ has is your chopper. Morpho is one sexy hind. Yet the Blackhawk gives you more of a covert feel. Which it should since boss should be finishing a mission by himself no problem. While morpho is designed to be support. A beefy chopper dropping a stealth king off is a bit off. But really love both choppers
RIP Morpho
Better than Pequod
I personally think that Phantom Pain, as far as game design goes, should've simply been a bigger Ground Zeroes. While it would suck to do away with a lot of the creative and wacky stuff you could do in Phantom Pain's open world, I don't consider it a worthy trade-off to the type of raw Metal Gear stealth and level design present in Ground Zeroes.
yeah like a true metal gear experience is better then any other experience out there,hell i even spend most of my time in mgs 5 fobs which is so tightly packed and difficult
@@MGrey-qb5xz nah I liked the open world
@@uraveragewiteguy Africa is really boring but Afghanistan looks great, should have skipped Africa and spent recourses on mountain climbing. Even then sides ops are just meh and general challenge of open world is literally absent
This felt the same as TPP tho. It only seems more slow because the uploader proned through everything
Yea i agree , it should had a smaller a more focused world , like self contained sandboxes maybe . GZ feels much more like a traditional MG experience .
Well yeah. Two different games. Lol. Why do u think they sold it full price as a full game originally. They made it fluid af control wise on mgsv. It still felt a little experimental in GZ… Honestly tho I don’t mind. I love MGS3 and the controls are garbage. Pisses me off that they made a definitive PW control mode with crouch walking on the 3DS and that Nintendo garbage can’t even RUN It 😂. But if the game story & game play & stuff is immersive and fun & engaging. That’s all that matters. Love Kojima.
It's a tough one. GZ while still detailed was a glorified Tech demo to get people to pre order TPP and get Konami to keep the budget. Kojima by the end of the dev cycle spent like 500million last time I checked (going back 6 years ago) and Konami wasnt having it. They were greedy and limited Kojima's creativity.
TPP feels empty, lifeless in what's supposed to be active battlefields. Outside of the random outposts and the main outposts nothing really happens. You're either running from checkpoint to checkpoint so you can go straight back to the ACC (If you hit a checkpoint at anytime outside of a mission you can go cut out calling the heli and be in the command centre free of charge in 10 seconds. Handy tip don't forget) or dicking around with every tool at your disposal
Side ops copy the same formula as Ubisoft and litter the same activity 20-30 times around the map. Once you've played one you've played them all. However there are some unique side ops like legendary gunsmith, capture the brown bear etc
To me, I thought TPP was going to have a bunch of random battles taking place at anytime like in mgs4's act 1&2 where you can help the rebels, kill the rebels or kill everyone. Rebels in TPP would of given you useful Intel about upcoming missions, weapons, gear ect, give you gmp or locations of where they got reserve caches of gmp and other useful items like resources or they'd be terrified of you especially with the skulls patrolling regularly and anything that isn't one of their buddies are KoS.
Idk, I feel like mgsv could of been so much more and I don't buy it that Kojima himself thinks what he created is the complete product. That there's nothing else to add to the game. I'm fairly certain Kojima only said that was to give his fans closure to stop worrying and waiting for something that'll never come
Why is this blowing up but hey yo thanks for the comments ive honestly never seen a better comment section in my life
I had the same impression. Looks like The Phantom Pain has more visual effect on camera (when you sprint or dodge for example) and motions are more polished.
I think BB is a little slower that Venom, but not completely sure about that
i think they decided to streamline a lot of stuff from ground zeros like the scope target marking time, animations and even some AI rework, ground zeros AI feels a bit slow in reacting to say me killing a soldier in front of them but it still makes up for a really good experience and just shows how good the fox engine can be even in its early stages
venom does run faster than BB. i noticed that on a recent replay
I turned off screen shake while running and yup, venom is faster
@@Disissid19 i think he may also be more skilled in lore than BB
@@lady_deaths_head There are staff members more skilled than you in some aspects so it is possible that venom is a really good all rounder. Can't tell though
GZ had the perfect scale, putting it in the same vein as immersive sims like Dishonored. I like a little structure in my level, some routines besides just a day night cycle and an extremely rare truck passing through.
Nuh uh
The mechanics as you know feel different, this was early stages of development and as they moved too mgsv phantom pain, running and combat changed. This was being developed in.... 2011-2012. I play this more often then phantom pain becouse it has this campy feel too it.
Gz felt much more like the classic tactical espionage, however I still had my fun in TPP just in a different way
I thought this video was about the controls, I went to Ground Zeroes after completing every Main and Side Op in TPP, I found I absolutely hated how GZ controls, everything just felt wrong, I’m not sure how to explain it, such as the dive not boosting you anywhere near as far forward as it should and the crawl being too slow
Yeah it feels clunky
Yep. No idea what anyone is referring to here when saying it feels more like mgs than tpp. To me it's just worse tpp and that's the point. It was a drawing board
@@shogunpug4071True it’s almost like people are hating on TPP
It also happened to me that when Big Boss does the fast dive in gz once he does it he gets up again and in mtpp he just stays on the ground
if you leave the stick in a neutral position, big boss will stay on the ground in gz, where if you move the stick during the dive, he'll get back up. I like having the option between the two in gz
@@3babylon3 Well also in ground zeroes it's fine, personally I like it better in tpp because if, for example, you're very injured and they're shooting at you, you can cover yourself more easily in coverage, worse, well, the one from ground zeroes I really love
Because two different person bruh
@@MrMaskYTWithin the context of the game it is understood, but in reality it is a simple change in gameplay 😅
I appreciated GZ so much when it came out. Hell even to this day over 7 years later it feels ahead of it’s time. Still okay MGSV a couple times a week.
I get the point of key differences in both games. But a difference i think worth mentioning is that between Big Boss and Venum snake "The msf medic" In ground zeroes you play as Big boss himself and his abilities Is similar to Venum snake only that Venum's skills and performance becomes better than Big Boss himself due to him spending more time infiltrating bases and become handy with the equipments that the Motherbase provides. His speed of sprint changes, He utilizes his CQC the best than any other snake i ever seen, His strength Is incredible due to him being able to carry soldiers on his back while sprinting and or even crouching just about fine. So while Big Boss was laying low I believe that we witnessed Venum truly surpassed his Mentor but due to old age he gets overcome by Solid snake which where solid was way younger and more flexible than him and led venum to his defeat.
So basically the creation of Venom snake pretty much broke the entire lore
@@birdsteak9267 You could say that, I believe what Mr. Kojima tried to deliver in his message. If you love someone so much and inspire be like them, You don't have to be exactly be like them and Its not impossible, You can be the better version of them. So no achieving dreams Isnt impossible with dedication and self discipline, Everything will be possible In time
I think BB intentionally sent solid snake in MG1 not to assassinate venom but just to see which one is the superior snake (and then kill the one that survives). He definitely wanted both of them dead but considering how evil he'd become, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to test his "creations" instead of just killing them off quickly. I kinda wish konami remastered MG1 & 2 since they can add more to the story between BB, venom, and young solid snake
@@oetz_p Ofcourse! Big Boss did sent solid to test out whos the superior snake, He had low expectations for solid to survive and there's a comic even himself says it when venom at brink of death through the radio. Ngl im dying for mgs 1,2,3,4 remake too the feeling is mutual
Grey 3d map is better than blue 2d
Man I wish this game had the default classic peace walker fatigue. You all know what uniform I'm talking about...... snakes default peace walker skin. That would bring back some childhood memories.
I had soo much fun completing GZ before TTP! Completing all tasks and missions on the GZ phone app for extra content in TTP !! Could had been soo much more ! None the less many fun hours spent ! I remember finishing the main mission in 5m but spent like 400 hrs in this game🐍
My wife gave me GZ and PP as a birthday gift just before we celebrated our first aniversary.
Liked GZ quite alot.
And played alot more PP, but as a package, GZ was better.
The Phantom Pain, while technically impressive, feels isolated from the rest of the series to me. Even before the "big reveal" at the end, the whole game felt disconnected and far removed from everything else. "Oh, man! We get a whole base with our own soldiers?" You sure do, but they don't matter. You can't interact with them in any meaningful way. Even the primary supporting characters barely feel connected to Snake. It didn't help that he hardly speaks two sentences together. It felt like standing alone at a crowded party. The whole thing comes off as lonely. You aren't some legendary soldier leading his men to victory. You're a one-man army and 98% of your staff are glorified security guards. "You've written your own history." Sure doesn't feel like it. Feels like I was a side act to the main story; running around doing whatever while the real plot was taking place elsewhere. TPP is a whole hell of a lot of fun, but man, did the story fall flat for me.
Ground Zeros from a core mechanics standpoint really is bizarre. Certain things like guards being more responsive, weighty movement, more accurate weapons but with more bullet drop, and many missing QOL options from TTP make GZ feel distinct from its brother despite being similar on the surface. It's the result of taking what essentially was a beta MGSV and polishing a section of it for public release.
A lot of these things are merely preference, but some aspects I can't deny were superior is the level and mission design. The open world of TPP meant you couldn't have missions like the ones in GZ. A real shame considering the open world added very little to TPP in my opinion.
Should have gone with a bigger qorld building based on MGS3 principle of having the world chopped up into sections, you leave one area > Load > another area, this will Grant each Map far more available resources, each map the same size as GZ or bigger.
MGS was better when it had the "Corridor style" open world and it would offer better level designs with nuances in challenges. No MGS fan would ve disappointed by that, it's basically what MGS always was.
What I personally noticed is that in TPP you feel more “light”. You can make quick adjustments in movement pretty easily, which the best way to explain would probably be turning. When you turn in TPP it feels very immediate and responsive but in GZ it feels slower and that you have to be more careful as to not overshoot or undershoot. In TPP when you sprint you feel like you can stop and/or aim your weapon pretty fluidly while in GZ it again feels sluggish. Overall I’m glad they changed how the controls feel in TPP because “Big Boss” shouldn’t feel so limited in movement
Dude moves like a demon in TPP. Kinda like how some games like to break the 4th wall when mentioning this
You don't play as BB in TPP ... you play BB only in GZ
In ground zeroes, you play as big boss
In Phantom Pain, you play as some paramedic 😅
I wish tpp had huge indoor sneaking sections
That is such a great point !!! You know I’ve got 3000 hours into mgsv and didn’t even connect mgs1 and mgs5 in that way I always just thought 1 was indoors the other is out but god now that you said that it’s like someone saying you’re now breathing manually I wish 5 had big indoor sections too or at least different that what it is
the point of the game is to be stealthy til u get caught, & once that happens you kill everybody til u die (if you die) then restart the whole mission bc u cant be fufilled by restarting by checkpoint.
all the way to perfection to S!
Yeah for some reason GZ feels like a real Metal Gear and TPP just feels…off. GZ actually feels like a good continuation of Peace Walker. I love them both though.
It was always my headcanon that since you play as two different characters (Big Boss in Ground Zeros and Venom Snake in MGS5) it would make sense that they control different. As they are different individuals with their own styles and techniques.
Its nog your headcannon, venom snake is litellary another person
@@Type1-2 Yeah I know that. That's why I believe the controls of Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain are different because you are essentially controlling two different people.
It's not that deep
People called me stupid for having over 55 hours in GZ. Everything about it was amazing, I'd call it perfect if it had just a littleee bit more content.
Glad it's not a controversial opinion to say GZ>TPP now
Feels weightier the cqc is better you can flip them mid punch combo as to not finish it past cover and reveal yourself I wish too had alot of maps like omega and didn't go open world.
tbh i like the open world elements in tpp more bc it creates a much more dynamic environment where the AI adapts to the decisions you make during each deployment, but yeah i get what you mean i wouldve liked bigger bases like camp omega too
@@averagejpegmafiafan yeah I understand but it was best during camp omega and also the soundtrack for gz was amazing and I preferred the peace walker era actual BB base your own metal gear being able to fight it and do coop
@@alexparker2353 soundtrack was lit ngl, here's to you during the ground zeros mission and then the weighted score for the other missions really made the game feel intense
@@averagejpegmafiafan the best mgs mission I ever played must have been destroy the anti air emplacements it has the perfect build up of tension grabbing the optional prisoner defeating the armoured vehicle via a trap rockets or the mines on the cliff edge then collecting all the prisoners within the 3 minute time limit before the camp is blown to bits as you barley avoid the bomber jets it's kino
@@averagejpegmafiafan That's because Harry Gregson William's composed the score for GZ but didn't come back for TPP, so a lot of the tracks don't have the punch they are supposed to
Ground Zeroes is a finished product with proper MGS gameplay, TPP is just another empty open world with no essence let alone MGS properties.
Chopper door in GZ (1975): Super futuristic space airlock operated by a push button
Chopper door in TPP (1984): Rusty sliding door that Snake has to manually pull shut.
Both games: Holographic iDroid with technology we don't even have yet in 2022.
The gz one is actually just a modified version of the doors on the mi 24, but they dont open by a push button irl i think theyre to be manually opened.
In tpp its just a UH60 Black hawk and it is a pretty accurate portrayal of the helicopter including the door.
The idroid is the only unrealistic aspect here but atleast it looks cool
@@averagejpegmafiafan I think it's more just strange that the in-universe helicopter door tech seemingly went backwards in the nine years between GZ and TPP.
i cant help but catch an eye at how much cake big boss had packing like dang
And the way the suits fabric stretches down there as he crawls
😏
Ground zeroes feels more clunky after playing TPP
This game is harder than Phantom Pain in my opinion
Honestly I prefer the chunkier movement of gz, as well as the more fluid CQC mechanics
Tbh this feels more mgs1 but new than any other metal gear
While an old video I want to add my thoughts to this, while GZ has a single map, I felt like I could tell you where you are from a single picture, while TPP I found the area you fight quite in I was like wait it was here ? TPP had better control and animations as GZ felt sluggish to play at, Wish we had more in door levels and large base type missions, while it’s a huge world if felt so empty, like oh a guard post, like all others, and the enemies didn’t feel threatening, hard just makes them one shot you or nearly, I wish I was give a very hard base to infiltrate where finding the smallest chance to slip in and start planning my route and escape, but most of the times I could walk nearly next to them, GZ npc would find you way easier… TPP was amazing but it could have been so much more, maybe the sudden firing of kojima didn’t allow the team to notice these problems? Who knows. Sorry for the long rant.
tbh Gz animations are more heavy? let's say that but it did feel weighty and BB was slower than Venom. But I did like how heavy it felt. But GZ has better hud. AI is brutal in GZ too
@@weplo1597 i felt i was in denger in GZ but not in PP
@@TobiGame1 I never felt any danger even i get caught in PP but GZ was definitely was something else I didn't wanted to be caught. Also Americans Soldiers in GZ felt more dangerous than Russians ever did in PP. I wish PP had atmopshere and night, heavy weight and a few unique animations from GZ.
I get that people like to pretend that gz is better than phantom pain. But fact is, it's the inferior product with less content. Worse gameplay. Dumber A.i. 🤷
I got both dirt cheap and I think the contained nature of GZ gives a tighter experience.
AI is much dumber in TPP
kid named finger:
At times, Ground Zeroes felt like it was Peace Walker Part II but on the Fox Engine. It really expanded the experience gameplay wise after having played Peace Walker and so for me I consider it to be a way more MGS experience compared to The Phantom Pain.
This game is slower paced because it’s so small. On my first try I got into the back of a truck and ended up sitting for hours on the back. You look for your objectives but study patterns. That’s how I found Paz my total accident. I feel it’s lacking but I’m no game designer or programmer. But fox engine is so smooth
Yo wtf happened at 3:21😂😂 jack stepped on that container and the game almost broke😂
I see a lot of people complaining about the "large enemy compound" aspect of GZ when compared to TPP, but people forget that invading other players mother base is pretty much on par with the location of GZ, albeit it's more of an online aspect more so than story in some sense.
thank you, average jpegmafia fan
I spent 38 hours on playing mgsv and 50 hours on playing ground zeroes LOL. GZ is kinda better in some aspects! The stealth gameplay is dynamic and the map is more detailed and diverse. Strange how a demo version could hook me up that much. BTW I LOVED morpho! I wish I could have the hind in MGSV as an alternative to UH-60
Is not a demo
Yes. In tpp, just full charge stun arm to take all soldier on outpost.
I enjoy that Ground Zeroes is more difficult than Phantom Pain, although the tranquilizer is so bad
Ground zeroes was awesome. The more confined maps were an excellent playground to explore. V was brill also it just could have benefitted from being on a smaller scale - not every game needs GTA level maps you can just end up with a whole lot of nothing.
I remember pre-ordering ground zeros and I didn't own a ps4 yet, it sat on my shelf for about a year unopened. I loved the idea it had special bonuses for MGSV. Finally I got my PS4 and I got to play it. I remember it feeling so smooth so capable you could play it out how you want. I don't think we will get an alternate universe military espionage game with this level of "you do you" again.
I noticed the aim assist is stronger on gz because this is the real big boss
there is no aim assist on pc
@@averagejpegmafiafan fyi there is ain assist on PC if you're using a controller. Not sure if the strength of it is different between GZ and TPP.
@@averagejpegmafiafan it's called auto aim correction
It’s the tanker all over again
TPP just needed some more enemy patrols and encounters between outposts and compounds, really sucks how they barely had anything interesting going on between outposts when they could have easily slapped any sort of random assets playing around in some random encounter or event that would have been great.
Areas unrelated to some of the better missions would have done great to have the same tight security with fewer safe openings. While TPP lost itself with the base management power scaling you to being a terminator, but thats fun in a few specific missions. The interesting challenges of extracting people via heli definitely makes fultons seem cheap and boring in the game loop.
Ground Zeroes is better than V
Its because you're playing as big boss
i think the phantom pain shouldve just been closed bespoke missions with unique maps, expanding everything to a full open world was a waste of development resources that couldve gone into handcrafting more levels like Ground Zeroes which is what the fox engine is actually best at. imagine a version of "hellbound" where you had to sneak through quiet's killzone and two soviet bases while carrying emmerich, and support functions were unavailable because of the soviets' air security. imagine a version of "where do the bees sleep" where you were racing to get across the valley and through da smasei laman before the soviets could find evidence of the honeybee's existence, and you would have to find clues on where it was hidden for every playthrough, all without getting spotted once. imagine if the "lord of the flies" level were finished, and you had to finish an entire mission without any lethal weapons - or imagine a version of "code talker" where XOF agents working for Cipher were specifically on guard for diamond dogs, and you had to complete the mission completely OSP and without leaving a single trace of your presence. imagine different climates, different enemy types, different SKULL boss fights. i think the game would have been far more replayable and memorable if the missions were all to the standard set by the Ground Zeroes main mission, and it's a shame because it feels like so much of the fox engine's potential for a stealth game was just missed due to poor creative priorities, presumably because of konami
you think you know me
My first mgs was this one and mgs1
Remember the stakes are higher in GZ with no cheating with air support xD
tbf after you get through the first like 10 missions in tpp i think most people realize that they can beat every level without any air support or supply drops lol
@@averagejpegmafiafan yeah, besides we can just flee into the dessert and smoke some e-cigar, Combe back later, when everything is chill out xD
I swear I only used air support cus Pequad looks really cool with its flight mechanics. Other than that it's all easy without him if you're into mgs as a stealth game
This felt like what Phantom Pain should've been. The open world design of Phantom Pain sort of kneecapped what you could do in those environments, but Cuba felt like a perfect mix of a Peace Walker and Portable Ops map. There was so much you could do here because of the small size. Imagine the jungle in Africa with this size. People would've loved the hell out of it.
Sorry to rant or complain, but I really like the gameplay and overall design of Ground Zeroes.
A remake of portable ops and peace walker with multiple ground zeroes type sandboxes is what I hope for after mgs delta.
@@NobleBoss Full on remakes of those in the fox engine would be INSANE
Morpho > Pequod
It’s amazing how boring and unsatisfying GZ was yet TPP was one of the best games of all time. I guess they just needed a trial run to understand the game design.
This mission is more fun non-leathal
I am very surprised by your comments
so mgs 5 with a lot of nature and open terrain feels more like a sequel to mgs 3 which is filled with a lot of nature environment and which is the best metal gear solid game according to 90% of those who ranked the franchise, yet in comments you say that you like more ground zeroes which is more like mgs 1 game
my fave game ever is mgs 1 but mgs 5 terrain is absolutely perfect and realistic, with a lot of open space and a lot of nature around enemies with only a few objects you can hide behind, for me that is far better than thousands of objects everywhere around and only few plants and grass
tho i am also not so surprised because many of you living in the city and you got used to not normal way of living and not being surrounded by the nature and many living things other than humans
i always prefer nature, no matter the game i want to see a lot of nature around me while playing, the more the better
that is what made crysis and far cry being epic games, also just cause, the witcher and horizon zero dawn and other similar games
for example mass effect trilogy has almost zero nature in it, and its a great game, but imagine if half of the game was happening in the nature, it would be 300 times better game
Forgot how satisfying the sound effects are in every game Hideo Kojima is involved in
Feels different but looks almost exactly the same, so describing the difference would be a better way of portraying that idea.
Gz was little bit harder then TPP because you had to truly use stealth. TPP you had more open world and little bit of freedom on getting caught bit still get s ranking. The mission on GZ were different kinda like peacewalker while tpp can seem bit the same especially the side mission. This why I think GZ was little bit better tpp. TPP could probably been alot better. You can tell Kojima was burned out Metal Gear. The time frame the Konami give Kojima was probably a bit short and there was alot cut content. Especially on Ch2.
The sniper named finger:
holy shit this was a terrible run
I agree
GZ is the original MGSV.
True
Technically Peacewalker, Ground Zeroes, and Phantom Pain are all one game.
It clearly shows that they had much more time to optimise and perfect the gameplay and map design in Ground Zeroes. The Phantom Pain is much bigger but because the game is incomplete it is also much more flawed compared to this.
peggy + mgs
perfect combo
It feels different than PP?
Well yeah, Ground Zeros was a polished, %100 finished title whereas Phantom Pain is unfinished, unpolished, and half baked.
I like mgsv as a game but their sense of story progression is probably the worst I’ve ever seen in an open world game. I tried committing to this game twice with over 20 hours put in and just got bored with the pointless mandatory side missions
Well of course.. GZ was a demo.. a sold demo none the less. This was to raise awareness for TPP.. Honestly I would have rather had a full remade Metal Gear Solid. That game just hurts.. hearing it, seeing it, thinking about it.. Pure work of art. Such a beautiful thing that sadly marked a dying time...
Originally gz was ment to be alot longer than what it was when it came out kind of wished we got at least 5 to 8 main missions leading up to the GZ mission
I thought gz and tpp was just meant to be one game but konami got impatience so they released gz on its own
i too, enjoy peggy and mgs
Bro watching you play is a torture, ur so bad😂😂
Not really, he plays like the average MGSV player tbh
@@FeeIRGYeah if there was that one realism mod George Salinokh played back like 6 years ago just for GZ it'd be impossible to play stealth
Honestly i liked it better