HUMAN vs AI AUDIO MIXING || Do the SONIBLE SMART PLUGINS make better mixing decisions than me?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- HUMAN vs AI AUDIO MIXING || Do the SONIBLE SMART PLUGINS make better mixing decisions than me?
*BELOW IS A SOUNDCLOUD LINK SO YOU CAN HEAR THE WAV FILES FROM THE FINAL SHOOTOUT*
/ ai-mixing-vs-human-mixing
You heard it right.. Paul Third is going up against the digital mixing revolution of audio engineering that is smart AI plugins!! The sonible smart comp and eq are audio plugins that use smart engines in order to maintain spectral balance which if used correctly should result in a balanced and transparent mix free from harshness and mud. The sonible plugins include grouping, sidechain ducking, frequency clashing, spectral compression, resonance suppression all at the click of a button.
But can a smart plugin make a better mix than an actual audio engineer? Thats what I'm going to try and find out...
In my mix I am using acustica audio brown, acustica magenta, noiseash ruletec, acustica titanium cl1b compressor and also oeksound soothe to reign back any eq overhyping, wavesfactory trackspacer for eq clashing and also some NEOLD big al tube saturation to smooth out any peaky harshness.
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www.thomann.de/gb/audient_id1...
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 intro
1:05 what is spectral balancing?
3:53 using smarteq:3 grouping to reduce frequency clashing
5:16 how the comparison has been set up
7:58 premix vs sonible vs my eq & compression
9:08 did the sonible do a better job?
10:15 using waves factory track spacer to fix eq masking
10:45 using oeksound soothe2 to reduce mud and harshness
11:28 why do I intentionally 'over mix' or overhype eq?
13:32 final comparison: premix vs sonible vs my final mix
14:51 should I buy sonible smart comp and eq?
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FYI there are 2 tests.
First is sonible vs my eq and compression vs my premixing
if you want to see how I premixed the track then you can watch here
ruclips.net/video/DczJWrWC0SQ/видео.html
Second is sonible vs my eq and compression with soothe and trackspacer
For anybody wanting to hear the WAV's from the session I have left a link in the description 🤓
Listening on laptop speakers (which I know is not a great idea - but real world) there's not much in it. Will try headphones, in ears and a small speaker, before my main reference speakers. Not bad though.
Ah chimed in too soon, the final mix comment was subtly more in your favour, However, very impressive. And I get your angle on the whole "hit it hard to get the effect, tame any harshness" I think that's simply the mindset of humans wanting to hear their gear and then use their tools to remove anything. Sort of stems from analogue too in that we can get some musicality out of hitting things hard / getting things to clip...Very useful though this Sonible thing!
Totally. The sonible eq to me is a really useful tool. Honestly if you use it right it's near impossible to get any harshness out it. It's just not its nature so a very good reference to check if your over eq'ing 🤓
I'll take that as I put a lot of effort into the premixing on this one haha 🤓
To get the best of both worlds could you process the tracks individually how you like (maybe referencing and using a little sonible there too).. Use a little soothe... And some track spacer and bus processing..... Then, have sonible mix..... Then slap on a Good particle at the end for good measure. Lol! 🤪🙃🤣
If you feel the Sonible mix was too dull, why not just a real smooth shelf to brighten it up a bit? Frankly, letting Sonible fix the problems in the tracks and then adding human flavor will probably be best
Just to add, balanced doesn't mean right. Add your flavor to what it does.
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I agree with this 100%!
@@tubeampsrule1 exactly this: balanced is balanced, it’s not necessarily the most musical or emotionally appropriate state for music to be in. No human being is perfectly balanced, so our music doesn’t have to be. However, AI tools that can do balance this well are *massive* time savers & problem solvers. It’s like having a rock solid mix assistant with technical prowess that frees you up to make the artistic decisions
@@mrnelsonius5631 wholeheartedly agree!
I like using tools like this first to “clean up” the sound for me so I can spend more time (and thought) doing more creative work
That's what I do. The grouping is pretty important to me as well as it solves a lot of frequency clashing
You could have set up Soothe 2 the same way as Trackspacer and Sonible. Just use the sidechain function in Soothe 2 and it basically works like Trackspacer but with more in depth control.
I think you are spot on with using the Sonible mix to create a "reference" of the track you're working on. Mixing is a strange creative process as it's full of contradictions... so starting with a vanilla mix and then adding the chocolate sauce and gummy bears is how I work. I actually use Sonible, Soothe and Gullfoss as expensive metering... I'll EQ with my usual faves and then drop an EQ3 after it to see if it wants to "fix" my ears! 😁 I like your honesty as it's clear there are a lot of RUclipsrs who are "punching above their weight" both in knowledge and experience. I have to admit I preferred the Sonible mix... if I were to "critique" your mix it sounds like you're mixing to sound like a "final master". We all do it because our experience of recorded music is only "mastered finals"... the trick is to focus primarily on the "balance" of a mix and not the "shine". The Sonible mix is a little bland but it's cohesive - so it will respond really well to sweetening when mastered whereas your mix has that "half mastered" sound.
You've actually made a great point Ive never thought of. I watch the pros and they'll be like
"mix the record how you want the final master to sound"
But being a non-working engineer I'm kind of almost trying to run before I can walk. The pro's know exactly what a final pro mix sounds like due to experience, recalls and also having subjectively bad mixes that they've learnt from.
I think your right that if I was to try and stick a little closer to the sonible reference then over time my eq'ing would naturally start being less severe which would mean soothe is having to do less.
I can still eq instinctively but reference the sonible piece by piece I.e. Drums. Eq. Compare and then rebalance. Then move on to bass. Eq. Compare. Follow that process and hopefully the mix should start to piece together where I'm getting the character and excitement I want without overhyping and getting carried away. That's my thinking anyway haha 🤓
I have had the Smart EQ3 for 3 weeks now and still learning it. It's a very useful tool
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Sonible was my favorite for the first round. I wasn't expecting your first mix to sound worse to me than the unmixed version, but it made sense after you explained the CLA method and not having finished. That said, I think there's a sweet spot between your mix and the Sonible in terms of the vocals at least. I found your vocal EQing way too harsh, even after smoothing. Sonible could have been perfected with a little highs from a Pultec. Great to see this comparison.
It's been a great learning experience and I actually used sonible smart eq all over my new single I released on Friday. Used Compressors and pre's for colour. Not had any negatives regarding the mix or any tonal balance issues so I'd say a blend of the 2 is a killer combination 🤓
So much respect to you for putting your balls on the line and giving honest commentary especially after the first set of A/B's.
Kudos mate! Never cease to stop impressing!
It was worth it as I feel my mixes are in such a better place now learning from that experience. I'm building a mixing portfolio and I don't really have any fear in regards to others listening to my mixes which at that time I really had
@@PaulThird Mate Good on you! Excited to hear your portfolio when you publish it; it's very important to back yourself as a mixer;
Big ups for this very humble reaction, i prefer the low mids on the sonible mix could have done with a touch more highs and I'd say the opposite about yours more low mids fewer highs! Once you work with it saves you so much time and allows you to focus on spending time producing more creatively rather than technically.
I've found using this in conjunction with normal plugs for particular colour seems to get the best results.
Not so keen on smart eq 3 for drum breaks and bass, smart eq2 does that way nicer!
Check out Focusrite fast as a spectral sidechain, it uses the sonible ai, I preferred it to trackspacer there's a bit more control
I think I'll take way more from this test than any I've ever done. It's hard to judge when you aren't a working engineer. No recall notes etc so it's a good way of judging what you need to evaluate and how you adapt your ear and brain to think differently.
Tbh I'm just gonna sit back and observe the reaction and then make a decision. I was thinking using the smart eq in conjuction with my choice of compressors and possibly certain pre's from units to still give me that colour. On reflection, if the sonible mix wipes the floor with me then I can use that and train my ear to get used to that certain sound 🤓
INSTANT vs. OZONE vs. REAL MASTERING --->maybe you can check this out
I prefer the balance of the Sonible mix. I find it overall smoother, and even with Soothe at work, I hear some harshness in your final mix. All that being said, Paul, you absolutely win. NO guillotine can't touch that!
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Let’s say your Sonible mix is a little polite, but is well balanced….add some character afterwards with saturation and some sparkle and depth with a smiley eq curve with a coloured mix buss eq
That's what I've been doing ever since but more Conservative with the saturation
Paul, thanks for being humble. I agree with your comment on how there are SO many youTube mixing vids showing "follow me". We need more people like yourself opening up, and being humble. Im sure CLA made a TON of bad choices and stupid decisions too. Thankyou!!!
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You’re giving away *all* my secret weapons! 😂. FWIW, I 100% prefer your final mix. It has more character and excitement. The Sonible sounds nice and polite. Kinda like “ready mixed for drug store waiting area”. Yet… I use Sonible Smart EQ and Comp on every mix I’ve done since I got them. They are top notch. I use them like a mix assistant, I’m the bad cop “I like cranking a little 2k with this API EQ on the guitars, it hurts just enough” Sonible , the good cop, steps in and is like “that’s too much nasty bro”. Then I realize I might be going too far: split the difference. Using a character comp on a track doing modest gain reduction then following with Smart Comp spectral typically retains the character I want while balancing out the side effects. I also use Trackspacer and Soothe every mix. I’m with you on the “make some aggressive moves, tame it downstream if a problem” approach. I hear that philosophy in a lot of big mixes today
I genuinely believe if I incorporate smart eq like yourself then I'll be able to find that right balance of excitement. I think it's very easy to get carried away in the mid range and all it takes is for you to over hype 1 track and the rest of the mix will start being overhyped. I'd definitely say this test has taught me more about trusting your instinct but trying to not let the excitement take over by using a balanced and smooth reference. This test has given me so much more hope that I will stop over analysing my mixes as much and make the process much quicker
@@PaulThird exactly! I suffer from overthinking things, going back and forth on decisions. Having a stable safe baseline to fall back on is really helpful. I’ve had smart EQ make a few whack decisions (dont like it on mixbus) but usually it’s very safe and consistent for tracks. If you take taste out of the equation completely you’ll get technically sound but possibly boring mixes, but with a counter balance you can get the best of both. I think that’s the future of our craft
Yeah I agree. The technology is there so let's abuse it! haha
Looking into getting this plugin and came across your review.........once again, superb and honest. Cheers Paul!!
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Nothing better than a Paul Third Wednesday! I'm 1 minute in and I think Paul gonna win.. If he didn't he probably wouldn't upload it.. lol
You won't be saying that after the first test 😅😅😅
@@PaulThird Took balls to press upload on this one.. lol
Your mix is way better,keep it up mate!
Thanks man appreciate it 🤓
I think the major part where AI did better was choosing to favour the body of the vocal rather than the high-mids, it fits the style of music well. When you talk about the CLA method keep in mind that works very well for him but he most often gets to mix heavier music where a pointier vocal fits better with electric guitars etc...
Tbh I'm just using sonible eq now for tonal balance and pre's for colour. Much quicker and easier approach now haha
you are genuinely amazing
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This is for me an "as well as" as opposed to an "instead of" situation. Use both kinds of plugins together, you don't have to choose one or the other. I have both the sonible plugins and use them all the time. Smart comp i often use 1st in the chain and then use a Nebula comp afterwards for colour, best of both worlds. Same routine for Smart Eq. I don't always agree with Smart Eq's suggestions, they always need a bit tweaking, but i have been amazed at some of the results i get with it. I also use Izotope's Neutron and also Master The Mix's Mixroom to give me other sonic alternatives to compare, each one has their own intepretation of the source and having those different options helps me to find my way. Good honest video, i really enjoyed it. Gon yer sel Son!
I didn't realise how many engineers own smart plugins haha this is the first I've heard of any of this being mentioned. I'm slugging away at it on my tod here!! 😂😂
@@PaulThird mate, i've got them all haha! Just always looking to make life easier and for cool production techniques.
Just curious, Paul... if you used the sonible in conjunction with analogue-emulated pre's/saturation etc, wouldn't the end result retain an 'analogue' edge (or would the sonible reduce those analogue qualities?). Hope that makes sense 🙂
I did both on my new single. Sonible with pre's afterwords. I liked combining both 🤓
Great video, Paul!
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This was really helpful, thank you for the honesty and in-depth comparison.
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for the 2nd/final test, did you put the sonible before or after the other effects? It sounds like yours had much more reverb, but if the reverb was the same, and it's after the eq, then it shouldn't make this much of a difference... How does it work with buses and suchs, especially with the 5 limit.
I do feel that it lacks emotion, while yours had too much emotion. A lot of people have said it probably already, but I feel it's probably better to have both instead of choosing one over the other. Use the sonible to balance it out, and then adding your emotions, or maybe adding your emotions, and then have the sonible balance it.
I am genuinely interested in getting this to help me prepare my mixes (I usually prepare my mixes to make it smooth first before adding everything... and honestly (as much as I hate to admit it) the sonible just does a better job smoothing it out, and with tremendously less time. it might be great to add this to my workflow
The routing was all exactly the same in both with verbs after the eq's 🤓
The grouping is meant to be more of an overall mix grouping. You'd probably have a smart eq instance on your drum bus and use that for your group along side vocals, bass etc. Really depends on the track and what you want it affect
I've now got smart eq so definitely going to use it in every mix!
@@PaulThird Thanks, man!
Yeah the vocal is where the harshness is really noticeable in your mix. I think the sonible would translate better. I have played around with sonible too. I tend to use it to give me direction and then do my own processing and see which I prefer.
Yeah I think it can be a really useful tool 🤓
i love these plugins, they speed up my workflow so much.
How do you use them? 🤓
what are the common genres you are mixing in?
@@PaulThird hey buddy, all over my mix, on vocals, drums. The EQ is a little bit CPU intensive for my old mac, but if I bounce down into groups it works well. I mix a lot of Scratches for hiphop artists, the Smart Comp is great for quickly controlling peaks. I have the Smart Reverb as well but need to spend more time with it.
@@akagerhard hip hop, drum and bass, pop.
Interesting test. I'm not sure I had strong preferences towards either. They had different characters that I appreciated in their own way.
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I preferred the Sonible in the first mix version, but i gotta be honest, I preferred your mix in the 2nd version. The Sonible one in the 2nd version was absolutely fine, but there was just a 'attitude' that i liked about yours. I agree that these tools are great for helping learn how to get better yourself. Its exactly how I use things like Neutron, especially for mastering.
Anyway, great video. 🤘
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Great video! One of your best!!
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Just so you know, Smart:Comp's sidechain ducking is more transparent than Trackspacer. Try that sometime. It might help keep a tiny bit more of that warmness in your mix that was in the Sonible one, but not so boxy. I liked both and found myself wanting to tweak the Sonible one to match yours more but keep some of the low low mids. What I really liked about this video is that you did the test and learned from it. I think having tools like Sonible are a great way to put yourself to the test and see what you might like better than what is in your own box of tricks.
I use smart eq in all of the my mixes now. I just make small eq tweaks on top of it to get more of what I want. Mixroom from mastering the mix is really handy as it removes the right amount of low mids on the mixbus that smart eq adds in with its spectral balance on the channels
@@PaulThird One thing we can all learn from reading the comments is that everyone hears things differently. If we did a blind listen test using a song mixed by an A-list professional and a mid-level engineer I wonder how many people would pick the A-list pro. Sometimes I even listen to mixes of famous musicians and think, "I would do this and this to the mix." Perhaps the future of mixing is on the end user side of things, where we can apply our own remastering to tracks in our media players 🤪
Pre Percieved conclusions is huge in the audio world. Even on youtube. You set yourself up in a studio with tons of gear around you, people will perceive you much better than a guy mixing from his bedroom regardless of ability.
Lots of smoke and mirrors in the audio world. Lots of elitism as well. Many engineers mirror what others want to see and be and use that as an advantage over social media.
Its all photos of gear and expensive set ups. You can genuinely buy perception in this day and age.
The amount of engineers that have told me 'I mix in the box but keep this stuff out for the clients' is crazy. They'll admit back in the 80's & 90's they used it all but don't feel the need as much now unless they want that particular sound.
I know guys that use their ssl console essentially for levels and automation.
The deeper I dive I find that as much as they are all really talented engineers, the quality of the recordings & productions they are given are what makes a big difference in the quality of the end result.
I know 4 or 5 Grammy winners and they all say to me that they aren't magicians and can only work to the standard of what they are given.
Sure they can hack away at it and still make a great sounding record but admit that their best sounding work has been working on already awesome sounding recordings. They both go hand in hand.
@@PaulThird Ain't that the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Honestly, the REAL talent is in the writing, arranging and recording. Give someone great performances recorded well and their job is easy.
I preferred your mix to the Sonible. I totally agree with you that the Sonible does have a bit of that muffled sound. The word I would use is “generic”. Your mix has more color and verve in the midrange- to me it’s more exciting. Your comments are spot on - do we really want a world where every single mix is the Sonible generic sound? Honestly though, it’s a bit disconcerting that the Sonible mix is as good as it is, at least in this case.
I know. Imagine what the tech will be like in another 5-10 years time 😅😅
Before I use these helping hands like Trackspacer, Soothe 2, Sonible etc. I think it is important to make your own EQ decisions before using these tools to fix problems. Setting levels and eqing is the fundamental of mixing. And this represents your very personal taste as a mixer. And that's totaly ok. I also like these tools (and some more).
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Sonible is cheaper than just Sooth 2, as well. Pretty amazing how they are able to get rid of the harsh stuff. Currently own Smart:EQ3 and Smart Limit, may have to take a closer look at the Comp too. Curious how the CPU usage is going on your end though. Mine can get fairly out of hand, as SmartEQ3 seems to prefer my resources.
I prefer Fast EQ from Focusrite. It uses the Sonible AI, but it’s much easier to put your on slant on it. Check it out. Keep up the great videos.
I dunno how I've not heard of this before haha 😅
Great video Paul. Waiting for Acustica Audio Black :)
Maybe next week.. Maybe haha
Awesome video man
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Great self assessment and perspective/ear for your work. That's hard to do. Great work.
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@@PaulThird Unfortunately you're inspiring me to pickup the 4U+blind test plugin (so you costing me $).
[Edit: It's free! winning!]
I have plenty of audio edu, but wee little practical experience (been to busy feeding my children, etc). Now that I'm approaching my retirement age with little to no hearing above 11.5k, I'm going to rely on AI and visuals, asking younger ears, to tame or taunt the high end of things. That said, this is what I've been noticing watching/hearing your videos:
First pass on this plugin by thought is "I don't hear much difference".
Second pass "oh, wait, that is different".
Third pass "well yeah, why didn't I notice that the first pass?".
I actually hear enough by third/forth pass to have an opinion on one track being better than the other. My listening needs a lot of work. I actually see a glimmer of light I could possibly train my ears/mind to recognize things more quickly.
Without the side by side, back and forth, I'm not yet able to pick out the diffs from what I hear and what I'd rather hear.
At least I see a gap to close in on rather than a mess of WTF? Thanks for the vid.
Is that Oaksound Soothe better than the Gullfoss do you know?
2 different plugins. Soothe is all about harsh and muddy resonance suppression where Gulfoss is more about overall balance
@@PaulThird Thanks man
Magic midrange with Sonible!
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I really liked your mix Paul. There was just a touch of "hissyness" (I know that's not a word but I think you'll know what I mean) almost like it needed a bit of de-essing but that's an easy fix. I also felt yours had more 3d or depth to it than the sonible. The sonible was just overall a bit smoother. The low end on the sonible was smooth but really tame like a good 1970's recording. Tame can be good or boring. Depends on what you're going for I guess. Overall with just a slight high-end attenuation I'd choose yours.
That's why I've actually really enjoyed comparing with the sonible as I can use that to go back and re-eq a few things and create a finer balance and understand where I've went wrong. A few engineers have messaged me being a worried that I've possibly opened the door for really harsh criticism but that's what it's all about when your not a working engineer. Every day is a school day. Only way I learn is to learn from my mistakes 🤓
Hi Paul! I love your videos. Thank you.
Can you share the test project? It's really a great project for testing. Especially the drums. Thanks again.
I don't think I've got it any more tbh I can't even remember what I did with the session haha it might be on one of the hard drives. I know I definitely uploaded my mix and the sonible mix to soundcloud though
@@PaulThird Thanks. :)
Interesting. I was trying to think if this could improve dialogue mixes, but the 5-instance limit isn't for me. I might make an exception for very busy Music&Effect tracks placing an instance on a dry dialogue bus and one on the M&E, but those busy mixes rarely happen. Still, it's a great option to have. Thanks for showing off your examples. I like smooth, but even though it's more work, I very much like to be in control to create more excitement.
Its probably meant for busses, not individual tracks. I use trackspacer on only 2 busses, on on the bass to duck for the kick, one on the "music" bus to duck for the vocals.
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Nice job. :)
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Smart EQ 3 is my secret weapon on busses. Soothe is ok but to my ears it tends to sound slightly artificial.
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Great video Thanks
Paul Third doing this took courage because you already knew the SMART EQ3 was a very very good tool.
you definitively showed us that Smart EQ3 is not a joke, i did not expect that good results by AI to be honest
I think i have to buy it now haha
Im definitively thinking of using SMART EQ to make a quick reference mix and make the personal mix after.
If everyone uses only Smart EQ3 to mix, mixes is going to sound a bit same`ish which will be boring
But for example it will be a great tool for a singer songwriter who want to know how the results sounds quickly
I do think your mix has better dep't but after hearing the Smart EQ on the vocal i think i would have dialed the lead vocal a bit down( closed the openness a tiny bit), but you stuck to you're guns, that's why this Video was so meaningful, you could have easily cheated, i probably would have :)
did you end up buying smart eq?
Damn man, the Sonible bundle is fantastic if you're doing podcast mixes. Makes sense you said you were using smartlimit for that. That bundle is worth its weight in gold. And smartEQ and smartCOMP today did a lot better in my vocal mix today than Nector too so thats a real thing. Well priced for the bundle too...
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not sure about Sonible EQ, but Smart Comp is fantastic imo
Been using smart eq on my new single and very impressed with the results 🤓
How about combining both? Get your sound and character then let the AI balance it. Smart EQ has a split band so you can dial back the highs more than lows and mids if it's too harsh.
BTW, they have a Smart Reverb too. 😉
Was thinking that but I think printing a smart eq mix first and referencing it whilst eq'ing should hopefully keep me from exciting things too much and also help train my ear more so if whatever reason I didn't have access to smart eq my ear has adapted enough so it's not a crucial necessity. My plan is to use sonible but more as a reference 🤓
@@PaulThird Using Smart EQ for ear training is a fantastic idea. I also love using it (and Gullfoss) while mixing because it's dynamic so it can better correct issues in real time throughout the mix as they pop up. I've used it along with other character effects and it's the best of both worlds.
Man I just want to say I really appreciate this video. Your honesty and transparency is a breathe of fresh air.
Sonible did have the cleanest file at sound to me. But on the final test I preferred your mix. The harshness everyone keeps referencing in your vocal is actually my favorite part. Sounds more human and beautifully flawed, in a good way! All the best brother 🤙
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Paul-star I encourage you to check out Neural Dsp’s guitar sims, especially with the genre of music you make. Archetype Nolly has been a dream for the last year
Your mix sounds better overall. The only issue is the low end balance.
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very cool video.
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IMO the sonible still sounds more smooth after you use soothe and trackspacer. It sounds better for this song, which is already fairly open and smooth. Your mix isn't bad though, if the song was more dense and heavy like a rock song your mix would definitely be the winner.
Tbh Ive got sonible all over my mixes now haha but I use other stuff to add in some colour so I have best of both worlds
If I am not mistaken there is slight cramping on the SEQ3. I am surprised you did not touch on that :)
I didn't know or check for cramping at that time. That's why I print with smart eq on my 96k premixing session
Such a BALLSY VIDEO, man!!! Thank you!... I'd share and shout out on Twitter if you had a profile on there to Tag, man.
@paulthird4 🤓
I got Smart:comp because of the sidechain feature. I used to like Trackspacer because it was the only thing that did what it did, but if you're cutting drums into a thick musical element then Smart:comp is faster. I assume it uses some lookahead whereas Trackspacer responds more "live", but whatever it is I get a vital few milliseconds before Trackspacer responds which means it simply can't do that job; you get overlap.
Good to know 🤓
I like your mix on the drums, but the character of this vocal benefits from the Sonible IMO
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Interesting test. I have the smart plugins but they kill my cpu. I should use them on all of my sends but until they reduce the cpu usage they just aren’t usable for me. I do use them on the occasional track like drums and synths. I always reduce and adjust its decisions. I add my own curves with the sonible where needed to shape the sound.p to my liking. I also have izotope Neutron so sometimes use that instead or in addition. I compare the results. Adjust. Turn off what doesn’t sound great. Izotope EQ curves are often similar to Sonibles but they also ad compression. Exciters etc in the chain depending on what its algorithm thinks. Compression is still a mystery to me after all these years so i check izotopes results and listen .adjust to taste. Izotope can also be a cpu killer so i have to be selective on which tracks get it but again its usually my sends for drums, kick, bass,snare and synths. Im still experimenting with these so its a hodgepodge of eqs and compressor for character and transparency depending on what im looking for.
As I've got the i9, cpu isn't as much of a worry even though having mostly all acustica instances and smart instances side by side took its toll at the end with the odd cpu quiver here and there but still managed it.. Just haha
I think what I may do is get smart eq and set it up before any eq. Print the results, take the instances off, eq my way and use the printed track as a spectral balance reference track 🤓
@@PaulThird I’m running an upgraded 12 year old Mac pro tower.lol. Im surprised its still running but its been hacked pretty thoroughly (ssd’s.faster cpu,OS and graphics card) so as long as i freeze/ print a bunch of tracks it works fine. I was looking to upgrade to a fast pc but the chip shortage killed that idea and then apple started coming out with the m1 macs. Now i wait for the M1x machines to be released. I think thats a good idea to print it and use the print . It gives you a spectrally clean starting point version and you can adjust to how you hear the sound. Might give that a try.
Does anybody else prefer Smart EQ 2 vs 3 version?
thinks its the 3rd commentv I've read already stating that they prefer eq2 over eq3 but only on certain sources
@@PaulThird I use SmartEQ2 pretty often as a starting point (and as a linear phase gentle eq) and I really like its curves on Kick or Snare for example. But seems v3 has different and much faster (which is not an advantage in this case) algorithms.
So this is soothe 2 and fab pro q 3 in one unit? BTW WHAT(!) dialect is that?!?! ❤
Kiiiiinnndaaaaa.. In a VERY loose term.
Its Scottish BTW
I did Me vs AI Master VST - twice actually. I also did it against eMastering webservice ages ago but that was not a fair match in many ways.
These things may work but they are not the Craft of Mixing at all. It may take potential $5 clients from me but I have little to no interest in that mindset at all as I work as an artist and that is something that these pattern matching fripperies are never going to be about.
As for Freq Clashing (such a modern obsession) that is just what an engineer learns over time. if you know you over did the EQ and over-brighted the mix, you can just learn not to get there first (or should that be third hihi) place. My advice is that the more you think of mixing as being the Story of the whole Song the less you have things being overdone.
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Each to their own but I've found the process so much more quicker using sonible smart eq in my process now. Not using the comp but from a workflow perspective the eq is really freeing me up to think more creatively now instead of obsessing over frequencies and the fear of over eq'ing or going too far without knowing it until you pull up a reference or that. Dunno, I'm just finding plugs that save me more time and make me over analyse less are becoming a pretty big thing to me recently
The smart mix sound Moore clearer and balanced Vs the 2 the dry sound Moore balanced than the eq and compress .. 😊✋
Could have added izotope neutron for leveling too.
I was back at work as of Monday so was lucky just to get this done, edited and uploaded for Wednesday.. JUST 😅
Not enough time in the day again 😔
I also like the sonible. Your mix was a bit scooped but not a bad mix at all. I think the sonible mix would be good enough to start and then tweak from there. AND THEN GULFOSS haha. AI taking over man. Then go Cloudbounce with your taste... more bass more mids etc.. good times we live in actually.
Agreed .. Amazing times to be making and producing music 🤓
Here's the question; can it learn? Does it take the objectively better mix decisions of some users and save them, dialing home to upload and learn from them? If it doesn't, they're missing a big trick, albeit a controversial one.
That there is the real difference between real AI. Real AI would allow you to import an entire session which it would learn every element and create a spectral profile then create custom algorithms which would almost recreate the mixing decisions or balance of a set engineer or certain track.
Imagine Greg wells importing his last 5 pop mixes and the AI calculating an average making a 'Greg wells spectral balance'. If it learned all sessions like that then you could have proper presets like genre > rock > CLA, scheps, brauer etc etc
Now that's the future!! Haha
I listened on SoundCloud you’re mix is better. Warm, full, nice vocal. But the volume isn’t the same. Yours is louder but even so you’re mix is better. Good job and song.
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Smart mix is to nasal, yours is too bright in the top but the vocal comes through much better, but a little to sharp, could use a little softening up
That's why I'm combining both moving forward haha
@@PaulThird I think you got a really good ear. Spot on on every shootout, I've not disagreed with your opinions yet. Keep up the good work
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Reminds me of Gulfos ai plugin
I think Gulfoss is more about real time processing where sonible is more focused on learning a snapshot to result in more fixed results. That's my take from it anyway
I heard much more energy and excitement in your mix, but the high end was slightly too bright to my ear. Also, is it just me, or is your channel growing by 1k subs about every month or two?
It's slowing down now haha May was 2.2k subs, June 850, July 550.
Hopefully when I appear on one of Warren's videos I'll get another jump in subs 🤓
@@PaulThird still sounds like great numbers to me. Congrats. You are well on your way.
I like your work although I would say, would you not think that you rely a little much on the band aid approach, as to say that creating a problem then just slapping a plug-in on in to ‘fix’ the issue, would it not be better to start from the ground up. For instance, trackspacer and soothe 2 (both great plugins), could you not achieve the same thing by just using an eq to show and hide certain frequencies instead of creating a problem 5-6 plugins deep then adding more to ‘fix it’ personally, and this is personally your approach might be different, I try to avoid unnecessary processing maybe in your own time try limiting yourself to basic tools after you do a mix the way you usually would. I think you’ll most likely find that all that harshness and boxiness doesn’t end up there in the first place, let alone needs fixed. You’ll know this yourself but you can get maybe 50% through your mix by doing some level, panning and a touch of automation.
If you think about a mix like making a meal, if your having a steak you might actually want something acidic to balance out the taste of the meat but if instead the chef decided to make everything extremely meaty then the steak isn’t really a special part of the meal it just gets washed away in everything else because it’s all so strong, a good chef chooses a couple things and makes them the focal point, everything else is merely to enhance that focal point further.
Obviously your style is your style but as you said you’ve been having issues with the harshness and the overhyped nature perhaps if you focussed on a few core elements and made them exceptional, everything else sits back and allows the focal point to shine because you’ve created contrast. That’s just my way of working, what do you think?
Well this was like 2 years ago. My approach is less is more now. I clean up and compress in my premix session and then put everything through my template which isn't really doing that much eq wise.
I still use smart eq for instruments ie guitar, piano, synths, strings but only because it gives me consistent results that I hardly ever need to add much eq to.
Trackspacer I still use but only to duck the guitars from the snare and the instruments bus from the vocal.
And soothe I use all the time on any harshness I hear when premixing. I've taught myself to hear harshness and it's never harshness that I've added, it's from the recording. And soothe is also an amazing kick/bass sidechain.
So whilst I'm not the one creating the problems any more I still use smart eq, soothe, reso & trackspacer in every mix. How much they are doing is dependent on the quality of the recording or production.
I mix in a way where I don't think about stuff any more. It's pretty robotic. Premixing is my critical fixing head where only certain elements are compressed to my liking and any issues are removed and my mix session is my creative space where I'm simply hi passing and lo passing and trying to make things work with panning, level, fx and automaton.
When I mix now I don't worry about stuff. I can put on izotope tonal balance and it never shows me anything to worry about at the end of the mix.
I believe that smart plugins are to be used less for fixing issues you create but to enhance what's already there. Very much like acoustic treatment in a room.
Let the smart plugins make your life easier so you have less of a critical head and more of a creative head
@@PaulThird when you say your thinking less are you saying that your less overly analytical and skeptical about mix decision/finding problems or that in general even with the creative stuff you don’t think about it anymore?
No I seperate the process. One session is purely critical but I'm not adding anything. It's mostly all clean up and organisation. Fixing drum phase, choosing drum samples, comping bla bla and then compressing what I know needs compressed. I'm not doing any tonal eq moves whatsoever.
Print all the tracks and put them into another session which is setup with all the routing and busses. In this session I listen to the song and try to get it to all come together and advance the artists rough mix.
This is where I'll add reverb, delay fx, automation and mostly all of the tonal shaping is hi passing and Lo passing. If I feel I need to reach for an eq then it's something that needs it to sit better in the mix.
The only tonal eq I use in my mix session is ayaik ceilings of sound for vocals and split eq for kick bass and snare. Same eq but shift the frequencies based on the fundamental of the source. Even still, the split eq's are all parallel and dialed into taste.
I mix into a specific mixbus eq and God particle does the rest. I've only got 3 plugins on my mixbus.
I do basically the same thing every time and let the fundamental of the source dictate the frequency. Means my workflow is quicker and I don't think about things over critically, it just works and I can dial into taste. Allows me to force the rest of the mix with panning, fx and automation. Focus on the song rather than the intricate details. I don't overthink mixes anymore
@@PaulThird ah, that makes sense. I’d be interested to know, what do you think about the state of modern plug-in lists, I have a lot of plugins but I try to slim it down to only the ones I use all the time so that I can spend more time learning them properly rather than just slapping a plug-in on there when you don’t fully understand what it’s doing and how it’ll effect your signal, have you noticed that you (over time) tend to go overboard with the amount of plugins in your session or have you managed to work your way out of that stage?
Worked my out of plugin anxiety a while back. I'm fortunate though cause I don't pay for stuff so I dont have any psychological justification to use a plugin.
My advice is create a template and go through it first. Then see what the mix is like.
I don't even overthink compression any more. I have my go to's and that's it. Analog emulations are the crux of plugin anxiety cause you have to think about your decisions which can make things worse. You have to fuck about and then the more time you tweak the more you lose perception.
The key to professional mixing is mixing quick. That's not my advice that's Jaycen Joshua's advice. He mixes through his template and does things a very similar way every time. I do the same now and I don't over analyse things any more cause a lot of the decisions weren't made by me, it was either the artist or the smart plugin.
Many people Diss smart plugins but don't understand the psychological benefit of them. When you make a lot of big tonal decisions you tend to second guess and you tweak the living daylights out of stuff to make it work but I find I don't think about what the smarter plugins do. I just analyse the other decisions I've made. So I spread the mental load and focus on making big decisions that I know won't fuck with other things tonally and are quick fixes.
Hello Paul!
HELLOOO BOB 👋
Omg. Much prefer your mix. The AI mix sounds more constrained, too tight infact, i think thats the compression envelopes. Yours is breathing, has air, and your added high end gives it some sparkle. I think, but i couldnt really find the moment to compare, that the AI has some nice defintion of the side info, but maybe its a side effect.
I use a blend of both now 🤓
@@PaulThird yea i guess it's like having a second set of ears to refer to
Great video man - I admire your honesty Paul - spot on what you said in my opinion
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IMO... Your mix sounds better. Why? In a word, character. It sounds like the difference between mixing that particularly track on an SSL or a Neve console and in my opinion that track is always going to sound better through a Neve with the warmth and character it delivers. Like I said, just my personal opinion and sonic preference.
Just to add, my comment above was made immediately after listening to the tests before going back and listen to the remainder of the video, only to hear you use the two words, warmth and character. interesting.
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Remember to check out my autism channel if you want to learn more about my life 🤓🤓
Hmm. Interesting. I thought your mix had more character overall and liked the sound of it, but the AI mix is less harsh. To me, it sounds like, if you put a little bit more de-essing or automation on the lead vocal, your mix would retain your character and be a bit smoother.
That's what my plan is going back. I purposely didn't go back to the mix for the video so it resulted in a real world test. Having the sonible mix as a reference should be enough for me to go back and adjust my eq in certain areas so I hopefully end up with the character of my mix without any added harshness in comparison to the sonible 🤓 I plan on doing this moving forward and printing a sonible mix before making any eq moves
@@PaulThird That sounds like a very good "sanity check" process. Custom reference material each time, almost. Hmm...I mostly work in analog processing these days but probably also something that would be handy for me.
mmmm, well, nice try. on to Paul Fourth I guess! i like your mix, still a little harsh, and still find the vox a little too edgy which just sounds "off" with the genre imho. yeah, it's hard to criticize the Sonible, it's very safe and smooth. nice test
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Gonna call this one before having seen it past 1:06. The emotion of the AI-MIX will be severely lacking. Every element will be audible, probably seperated better than the real mix.. but there will be weird balance and tonal decisions.
okay, you made it hard for yourself. The song is recorded great and it has a very natural sound, needs not much work on the creative/producy side. I'm not sure which one I prefer. While your mix has the vocals too present for my taste, the AI mix has the vocals not quite present enough in some parts. After listening again I must say I prefer the AI mix :(. But this is no shame on you. The AI-mix is actually perfect in many ways.. everybody would struggle beating that. Now I want to know how this AI would do on a modern pop or rap-song. I think it would do really bad.. but then again I didn't think it would be THAT good on a more "natural"/acoustic song.
PS: I will follow your example and let my failure of prediction be a failure. You are right.. nobody is willing to fail and be wrong on social media - unless it's on purpose. This has to change.
I think it just goes to show how good my premixing was haha the tracks weren't great and I had to manualy subtractive eq as well as Acustica blond premixer, tape and sonimus Britson for all of the crosstalk and routing. all the manual work I put in during that really meant i shouldn't have had to do much eq moves as the sonible shows. It's not a million miles away from the premix but I think it's cause I'm used to demoing plugins now where I try and show off the curves more so you can hear what it's doing. I think I'm so used to eq'ing till something changes that's the issue. I think it's also about knowing when stuff doesn't need too much or any processing. It's almost like I'm really forcing sources to fit too much when I need to chill more
@@PaulThird it probably does. I think I should spend more time on pre-mixing. I do it on vocals, but I'm a bit lazy on the rest if it's sample/VI-based. Watching your premixing video now. I'd buy a good premixing plugin in a heartbeat - haha
I didn't like what the Sonible Mix was lacking IMO. I thought the Sonible Mix Vocals had more High mid Frequencies I found a bit harsh.
Your Mix felt more balanced in that regards. Also, your Mix had more "musical" choices like a bigger Low end or fuller Snare. This is what AI mixing hasn't mastered yet.
Musical choices why in a certain Mix u want less High Frequencies or why another Mix needs to feel hyped wich means more energy in 3-5 k.
It wouldn't surprise me if in 10 years time they'd developed machine learning where AI can learn engineers mixing decisions. Observe and learn say 100 mixes and deduce averages in combination with its own algorithms. Technology only gets scarier and more advanced with every year. Its crazy
Either mix was good.
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I demoed it for about an hour and absolutely hatted it. I was like wow! “ that sounds worse”. I have smart comp and smart limit and they both do decent jobs but are not that smart. Its a 50/50 crapshoot if they get something that works.
Did you utilise smart eq's grouping functions as well as the dynamics? That's where it really does the job for me. I'll set my priorities using the groups and it really sorts out a lot of frequency clashing. I find if you use smart eq on everything and then do like a 2-3db low mid cut you'll find it sounds the way you want it to. A spectral balance means that you'll have an overall balance so the low mids will be as present as other bands but if you take those out via the master you'll find you've got a solid sounding track.
@@PaulThird I did use it on groups. Im pretty sure i used dynamics globally.
Great song! The instrumentation is refreshing. Also, sorry AI kicked your butt. 😜
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Just wait until they add saturation
They've got saturation in smart comp but I'm not a big fan as there's no oversampling
Hi PAUL DUDE , ok 9 mins into your VID , am thinking shit paul has over cooked his eq , but that's very strange coz even if we say forget that, the smart eq and just made the mix nice PERFECT mmm its bloody good , but what paul has do needs to be looked at . u have as we say over egged it AND i am all for that , its A GOOD THING , u just need now at this point back it all down a db ISH , then your be in the right ball park . I WILL now press play watch the rest of vid , OK your next mix 1st off the smart sounds better on the Keys to my old fucked ears , but i like your mix , BUT its still needs to be chilled down a little not much but some , its got more life in your mix but it need s chiling , u could do this with a comp ,and oak master on master . and that would sort it , no need get into to chan s , well u could but if you have 4 mins and the mix needs be out the door . OK so ill say this to u paul dude and others , its 100 times quicky to mix on a desk and and to have hardware , you could do the mix so quick , but bcoz you got all the toys it will take longer playing . the point i would make is paul and most people will play and spend hours on there mixes and using there plugins for hours . . play it back at 70 to 80 db and up it and go down . your be ok . 1 more thing all this stuff about hi pass low pass ,, drives me mad crazy , DONT get hung up about it . There are some NASTY frequencies going on in the mixes u played , it still sounds good , not perfect but not bad ..... LAst thing i would say is BUY this plug in , it is mega good . THE WORD is LESS iS MORE , I say GIVE ME MORE GIVE ME MORE .... works in live sound better that recording i have to say , u can get away with more and its about impact in the moment more . Paul u are mixing like live sound dude would do at the end of the day , u just need do what ur doing just back it all down a little and it will be a better mix than the perfect eq thang .AT the end of the day u are finding your sound mate , it dont need be perfect it just needs be YOU . great vid love u man .:)
I think if I go with the idea of printing a smart eq mix first and then referencing it periodically through the EQ process I'm hoping that it should result in that right amount of refinement I'm lacking before soothe. Means soothe won't have to work as hard and hopefully over time my ear starts to chill out and get used to that.. That's the idea anyway haha 😅
I'm glad I did the test though cause I know I'm in the right direction of where I want to end up but just needs a bit of refinement and ear training 🤓
@@PaulThird i think its good to try all things out and find workflows that work for you now and mayb not next month , when i started out i would spend hours on just a sn trying to get it to sound perfect , we wanted it to sound so good people would say fuck me that the best sn , and so on bass sound gits all of it , when i look back now and the sn i did 30 years ago its easy for me to say way to much rev but at the time it was the best thing ever haha . talking about snare sounds , when i heard Oasis great tunes they did i always thought how did they think that snare sound was good in the mix , it isnt good still isnt but that didnt stop it selling buckit loads and they becoming one of the biggest uk bands ever and no one says bad snare sound , we all get too court up in mixing and sound brother , what you think matters dont to the people who buy your records , only us music dudes care about what delay is on that vox . back to you try putting oak and perfect Eq , on as the first in your plugin chain , turn them out set them to sound good , turn them off and then do what u do , then turn them on off have both on , 1 on , on off now and then , ur like the mix with them or with out , it with be like a light switch , try that , it may help . i put loads of plugins on and then turn them on and off until i get the right sound for the sound . SOME TIME s , over times i just try using something new . u got to try stuff out . after watching the rest of the vid , u kind of say what i was , we dont all want to sound the same do we . no point in that . the one thing about that perfect EQ its good at getting the eq right for a laptop , i dont like to mix to make it sound good on a laptop , but i do find more people ask for a mix that works on laptop and ear buds than then ever have b4. your ears are fine by the way , its just where your heads at at this moment , all the people reading this that mix will all no this or will when they mix next and think about it .
I did prefer the eq decisions that the AI made. However the compression felt a bit all over the place. Your mix was too harsh for my taste but your compression was waaaay better. I'd rather listen to your mix but with lower volume.
I'd agree. I'm confident in regards to my compression decisions but if I continue to use smart eq as a reference then hopefully I'll be able to dial back the overhyping and find the right balance 🤓
@@PaulThird Seems like a healthy thing to do! I do that myself. My ears tend to do the opposite, my mixes easily sounds muffled. I have extremely sensitive ears to the higher frequencies.
Sorry bro but sonible was better on the vocal but the low end on the instrumental of your mix was great 👍🏾
I mix completely different to how I did back then anyway so it doesn't put me up or down haha
@@PaulThird no worry's Sir i really enjoy and love your content I'm your fan Man👍🏾
Use the "balls on the guillotine" analogy again and i unsub body. ;-)
Hopefully I never need to be in a position to say that again 😂
You're being too harsh on yourself.
IMO, the only sane way to mix is to mix for how YOU want to hear the track, then if the rest of the world doesn't like it, it's their problem. If you're mixing for a client, then either they picked you for YOUR ears and YOUR taste, or they should give you a reference.
However, even if you're mixing "purely" for your own taste, references are really important because they give you needed context, as your ears can adapt to virtually anything. So I say mix to your own taste but reference religiously.
Also, if you have the budget, why not buy the plugs? Maybe think of it as getting basic sanding and sealing done on a woodworking project, then you get to apply the paint. You're still making art here after all.
painting is not woodwork, it's paintwork. I'd rather think of it as a masking/unmasking AI. I'd use it after getting the rough tonal shape I want (after: flanger, phaser, distortion, pre-amp, amping, etc), but before adding finishing touches (reverb, delay, gluey-saturation). So you'd go out, kill a tree, cut out rough shapes (creativity), let the machine do the "work", add finishing touches and corrections by hand - and if you're into it you can paint it too :D
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@@akagerhard haha thanks for the correction. As you might be able to tell I don't do a lot of either woodwork or paint work.
You should try with real instruments instead of that MIDI-shite!
What midi shite 🤷♂️