Are SMART PLUGINS really smart? (ME vs NEUTRON + OZONE vs SONIBLE + GULFOSS battle)
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Heeey, my web dwellers, hope you're still good!
I got worried that smart plugins are too smart and I'll loose my job, so I decided to make a grand mixing battle: me vs Neutron + Ozone vs Sonible + Gullfoss for mixing and mastering.
Can machine learning / anything AI-like can really outsmart us? Will I manage to win this epic battle? See the vid to find more :) Enjoy!
0:00 Intro
1:43 Battle contestants
2:38 Session overview
4:16 Manual mixing
6:48 Manual mastering
7:41 Neutron smart mixing
10:53 Ozone smart mastering
11:36 Sonible smart mixing
15:00 Sonible + Gullfoss smart mastering
16:00 Grande Finale
18:36 Summing the thingz up! 
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Great video - I've used both Izotope and Sonible Smart for a couple of years now. My conclusions are these:
Izotope Neutron (& Nectar) create severe phase and thinning issues. They also suggest stupid amounts of compression, and equally ridiculous attack/release times. I adjust neutron's suggestions afterwards but I still always come away with a feeling that it has made it sound too 'digital' or overprocessed. Less is more with mixing and Neutron will always suggest more.
I also noticed it always suggests bass and treble boosts irrespective of what it hears. I tested this once by stacking several instances of neutron on after another and found it told me to boost bass and treble of EVERY instance. This tells me that Izotope have tried to trick customers into thinking they hear an improvement, when actually they just hear a volume boost. i mainly mix rock and folk and so I always wondered if the above issues were because I was going for a more retro sound than izotope was designed for, but this video proves that the same thinning and phase issues happen with all genres.
Izotope Ozone is, on the other hand, brilliant. Particularly the maximiser and complimentary dynamic eq that helps increase the maximiser's transparency. With Ozone's EQ I do sometimes have to counteract a bit of the same bass and treble boost overexcitement that it suggests though! Along with Izotope RX, I use Ozone on almost every song, for the pre-mixing and mastering stages respectively. Not really for mixing using these nowadays though.
Smart EQ:3 is a lot more sensible than Neutron, but can sometimes create some thinning issues due to over-processing as shown here. I would recommend staying away from the dynamic EQ mode unless you have a track with serious harshness issues as it can make things sound very digital.
Smart Comp:2 (which improved a lot on Smart Comp 1 as shown here) is amazing. It always seems to suggest a sensible amount of comp and gives optimal attack/release times.
Paul, I just subscribed to your channel and find your reviews on target and very interesting! Kudos to you!
Thanks, Jake, hope to see you back soon! :)
Great video thanks so much.
Siemanko….you picked a great topic for today's video. As we all know more and more AI plugins coming out, this video was a great taste of what is coming in near future….cheers
Great, thanks, Johnny! Siemanooo! :D
Thank you- instructive, elucidating and Fun
Thanks, Jerry, hope to hear from you soon!
I've done this comparison myself a number of times, putting iZotope against Sonible. What I find, without my touching anything, is sometimes iZotope is better on a specific track and sometimes Sonible is better. I understand the spirit of your experiment here and your method, but these smart plugins are meant to provide starting points which you are then meant to tweak. In any event, I enjoy you and I subscribed.
It seems the sonible version had removed more of the mud frequencies compared to the manual version along with attenuating the dynamic range making it sound a little more punchy. The neutron/ozone version seemed to have taken this approach further but in doing so made the sound output thinner and harsher.
Yep, spot on!
very interesting!
Thanks, man!
Great video! Would be amazing if you did another video test with electronic music (say techno). And also maybe to a version with and without gullfoss. Cheers!
Gullfoss vs Teote would be a nice idea, what do you say? Cheers!
@@FoliaSound Why not, I would personally love to see what a sonible + Gullfoss + Soothe2/Spiff arrangement can do to a techno track! Hope you'll make it happen! Cheers!
You should also try and test Sonible Smart:limit!
Aaah, I know it and I'm using it and yes - it's stellar!
Thanks for another great video!
Neutron is way too cpu-taxing on top of being crap, don't use it. Ozone 9 is far better and has it's moments, especially with the stereo image but also on other things. It is a handy little toolbox and I would not be without it.
I am also a big fan of Sonible like you, especially the EQ and the limiter that I use both all the time. The smart comp need some manual help and also should be put first as the very first instance with some EQ and then perhaps a colour comp after it. The EQ is not perfect but damn close. It is fast and when it is on 70 - 100 % dynamic it get results that are impossible to get from normal EQ'ing. And with a little bit of manual help that EQ can easily be my desert island EQ. The comp is OK, the limiter and EQ are pure gold!
These are exactly my thoughts, Erik. Thanks!
Paul >= Sonible >>>> Izotope. Btw I love Sonible plugins and this case shows they can point out a right direction for further mixing decisions. Great job!
Yea, Sonible actually made machine learning really exist in pro audio. They are real pioneers in making it fully functional and usable!
I've been using smart:EQ2 for sometime and it is quite a good tool. Although I'm an amateur composer only writing music for fun, my actual work is with AI and ML. Maybe I should give sonible a call and make a video from a professional AI perspective.
Aaah, that would be awesome!
Did you use Smart Limiter on this? do you have a video on Gulfoss? I know Smart Comp does an amazing job of masking and kick and bass beautifully. Manual version far ahead good job.
Your version is the best hands down. Simple as that. All the other ones are too nasal (2 to 3kHz).
I mean yeah tech will always remove jobs. smart tech in audio is insane these days. Between virtual instruments replacing real people to making demos at home instead of getting a pre-production studio there's a lot of jobs lost. I have always been a part time audio engineer sadly. I think a lot of that is due to my skill set being outdated in audio (so i'm shifting more towards podcasts/post) as I wanted to be a recording engineer primarily, specifically live drums and bands. As soon as i graduated school, half the studios in my area closed and the recession happened. no real jobs available in studios, only internships. live sound had work, but ugh how I hate it. Smart plugins will eventually get to a point where we aren't needed for most projects. just as plugins have replaced hardware in most studios.
Good point, sir!
@@FoliaSound Thank you! also remember technically correct doesn't necessarily mean emotionally correct, which is a lot of what our job is. A human touch is always appreciated that's why this is art
for this part at 17:00 i just love you
I think SmartEQ is just hesitant to make major changes like to eat too loud sub-bass because it thinks you might want too much subs... It's really good. But it errors on the side of caution. It would be better to feed it tracks that already have had some work towards what you want on them.
Sonible is awesome.
i was kinda surprised by Neutron and Ozone. They sounded kind of weird and phasey to my ears. I have heard them both sound a lot better though. Although if that was the result of tweaking and user intervention it kind of throws the whole concept of automatic tools ilke this out of window. Smart eq though and gullfoss. Use them all the time. Wicked tools.
Yep, I really tried to make Neutron and Ozone sound good, no success. Sonible was extremely easy on the other hand!
Dobry test
Dzięki!
When you see Sonible eq raise low frequencies from around 50-700hhz on a bass guitar track by up to 9-12db, you know there's zero "intelligence" going on. Hey sonible...it's a bass guitar. By definition it's....bassy. There's no reason to crank the low end by up to 12db. I've seen it do this. The intelligence may work a tad better on the comp and limit. But for eq...the intelligence is pretty dumb.
awe, also try dseq if you can, cheers.
I'm a Soothe2 fan, but i'll give a shot one day :)
I am wondering that Neutron is so bad. Did you tried to choose the right instrument before starting to analyze in Neutron? In Smart:EQ you choose the Instrument/Type, but in Neutron you always used Universal, why? I am getting quite good Results with Neutron giving him the right Instrument, but i recently also moved to Smart:EQ. I use it at starting Point and tweak to my liking, and as you said, it is very fast to work with the Smart-Plugins. Very nice Video. Greetings form Germany, Dziękuję bardzo, Gregor
I believe that Neutron's assistant detects the content automatically, this is what the manual says :) Anyway, thanks for your feedback, Gregor, hope you're back soon!
@@FoliaSound Try it out, i think it will produce better results. Cheers!
@@GregorMucha , I will, thanks!
TDR plugins are also pretty smart, though less functional
Yes, they're great! No machine learning used in them, but the're on the smart side for sure!
Smart EQ4 and SmartComp3... U r fired! XD
Jk, jk 😅
I think I would like the sonible one better than yours if you tweaked the grouping. the voice is too loud, but it has more substance.
Also would have been intresting to use Ozone after sonible and gullfoss. and what about using gullfoss on seperate tracks, too?
Gullfoss is actually a dynamic EQ based on psychoacoustic effects, it's not a smart, self learning plugin, just a static piece of code :)
@@FoliaSound depends on how you define smart lol. it reacts to the input, right? I would say that is smart.
i think it's a lot to demand from AI to make artistic decisions.
neutron kinda sucked. but smart eq is pretty darn good