As a manufacturer we don’t actively take part in user forums as clearly having a vested interest in the brands and products we are connected with means it doesn’t seem ethical to play an active role. That said we are aware that a number of our team are passionate music creators and they personally take part in the forums and in the main this is done in a positive and open way as people will have seen from historical posts by various SSL staff.
Unfortunately recently one of our team over stepped the mark with a post stating their own personal opinions and using rather poor language. To make matters worse the individual regrettably used their company email to approach an independent reviewer related to the same posting, again with some badly worded personal suggestions on how best to test equipment. This was clearly not acceptable and we have spoken with the individual to ensure that this error of judgement will not occur again.
This occurrence was not a statement of the company’s opinion and it is not characteristic of our company nor does it reflect the long standing reputation of Solid State Logic in our industry. We are disappointed with this indiscretion and have taken the matter very seriously. We do though hope and feel that the apology that has been publicly made by the individual on the forum and the emailed apology that will be made privately to the reviewer, combined with this company statement will demonstrate that we are not supportive of this kind of correspondence.
We hope this puts a close to what has been a regrettable incident and we apologise for any upset this personal post has caused. Solid State Logic
To SSL's credit, this is the only acceptable way for them to handle this situation. Regrettable indeed, and the damage control on their side seems reasonable. I think Paul is providing an extremely important service for everyone concerned, even the manufacturers.
Sooooo what tools DO you guys use to measure the hardware as well as the results of the modeling process in the final plug-in product releases and how do you compare the two?? 😏 And yes it’s nice to see you take some action on someone’s poor representation of your company. I happen to have taken receipt of a Fusion myself and can’t wait to dive into it.
It's strange to me that a people at a company like SSL would see a video demonstrating the differences between the emulated version and the hardware version of a piece of gear and get so upset that they would threaten a lawsuit. The guy didn't explicitly say it, but I feel like we all got that impression reading the eMail. This comment mentions "passion" and I'm certainly no stranger of taking offence at what is CLEARLY intended to be an objective observation, but come on...There are other, much smaller companies that have received similar criticism from RUclipsrs such as White Sea Studios and rather than getting overly upset and practically say everything except "Say it again, and we'll sue you," they...Fixed the problem. If ANYONE from ANY small startup company sent something like this in an eMail, that company would be in for some rough months ahead, if not totally bankrupt by the end of the quarter, but no. Instead, it's someone from SSL who has gotten an overly large ego because "I work at SSL so you can't say anything negative, objective or not. ESPECIALLY if more than 1,000 people hear it!" This is part of why so many people are furious that these companies can make such a large chunk of an industry's profits. They're so wealthy and so profitable that they can throw large chunks of money at lawyers for seemingly any problem and the problem just vanishes. This is not how you stop objectively negative reviews. This is how you create PR nightmares. You stop objectively negative reviews by fixing the problem, or at the very least, explaining why the problem doesn't actually exist because, as was brought up in an okay manner in the eMail (Although it still comes off as whining like a spoiled brat, given the context), you are modeling it differently than it's being measured, or component tolerance differences exist, or whatever else that can happen. Although, I suppose I can be happy that someone at SSL is mindful of situations like this, but it sounds like a select few individuals let money and ego get the better of them. I guess this turned into a whiny rant just like that eMail. Oh well. I'll just take a bunch of hate comments and release a public apology in 2 days and the problem will get better, right?
For anybody confused why I made the decision to make this. Sometimes you've just got to stand up for yourself. I couldve left it and hid but I decided to do the opposite. I'm fine to deal with feedback and criticism from big companies and have done so in the past in a professional manner but with this one.. Nah I'm just no being pushed about.. Its the Scottish stubbornness in me 🤣
thats called bullying . thats what they try to do to silence those who expose their gimmicks. they want to lie to consumers , extort money from you and get away with it ,whilst these big name engineers get payed to support their nonsense. if they want to prove that their product is what they say it is , then make videos to debunk the false information. thats all...but no ,try to intimidate the youtube guy...thats weak and shameless. continue to bring the videos.
SSL have shot themselves in the foot with this idiotic letter. They are a busted flush selling good products but have hit a dead end. Now they want to approach the budget market and have their evangelists creating the demand for them. No one gave a monkeys about SSL until they started with the emulations that sounds just like the real thing and then a few years later it doesn’t lol. Thank God I didn’t fall for this nonsense. I use Cakewalk’s fake analogue console channel but I’m not under any illusions. It is a digital plugin, very good for what it does. But it is not analogue really is it?
Hellloooo Paul Third. Good on you. Respect dude. You have called out these assholes on what we all know is true. Marketing bullshit. I 100% agree with you and rely on your videos to cut through the marketing spin that these developers spit at us in an attempt to get our hard earned cash. The plugin world has become a bukkake of verbal ejeculate with promises of that" professional hardware sound" which we know makes no economic sense if those said units are still in production. To think these plugins match the sound of of gear worth thousands of dollars more makes zero sense. Imagine going to your bank manager with that business plan??? " yes we want to release a plugin for $100 that emulates the sound of our $3000 hardware unit that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to manufacture." Even a bank moron would see problems in this plan. Anyway I could spit on for pages but my only objective here is to let you know I support you and would love to bitch slap that c**t from SSL back to his daycare centre in time for his lunchtime nap. What a child. Respect for your caution and the professional way you have dealt with these useless foreskins. And although I'm a fan of Dan W videos and rate his knowledge and expertise, he too acted like a petty child when responding to your previous video. So thankyou for having the balls to say what you believe . Look forward to see what knickers you knot in upcoming videos. Respect from downunder....
I think you absolutely did the right thing making this video. It's embarrassing to watch a huge company like SSL make thinly-veiled threads against someone calling out flaws in their product. I'm sure it would have been an entirely different story if they had reached out to you in a kind and friendly way suggesting a different set of tests or adjustment to your testing process, but being blatantly threatening is so wrong. If anything, everyone who's purchased an SSL software product should now be wondering what other issues are hiding in the products they bought, and what lengths SSL will go to suppress dialogue about those. What a shame, huge fan of the sound of SSL's products, and I hope they apologize to you for this.
They obviously feel very strongly about what I've said and feel that I'm giving out misinformation so if that's how they feel then fair enough but yeah I think the personal stuff was uncalled for especially as there would be nothing stopping me from trying out other native plugins and liking them.. But I think you'd imagine why I'm not interested in ssl plugins right now haha
@@PaulThird You summed it up in the outro of the video perfectly. The only one SSL is hurting by trying to undermine your credibility and the tests you use is themselves. Best thing they can do is provide evidence to support their position, like adults.
2 observations - One, you should feel AMAZING that they actually took the time out to send you that kind of email - that means you are having a huge impact. Two, I lost a TON of respect for the brand just based off that email and the GS thread - very fucking douchey behavior, kind of reminds me of AVID which I boycotted over a decade ago.
@@PaulThird They are extremely smug - they never take suggestions from their users and their pricing is insane. They haven't innovated anything since beat detector.... If you want some good background on Avid check out Barry Johns Studio Talk, they banned him from their forum for just telling the truth.
daaammm I totally agree hahaha thats exactly what I thought wen I was adding my comment to Pauls video that SSL Is sounding like Avid , thats I why I don't use Protools any more ,
@@aviatedviewssound4798 Avid has always been a trash company. I worked in broadcast and motion graphics for years and they were always an overpriced “name” when there were plenty of products that did as good or better a job in video editing or audio.
I support this whole heartedly. We've spent FAR too long hiding from the things that we imagine could be done to us because of our knowledgeable and well thought out opinions. I really hope that this becomes a trend with RUclipss and other people with social access and followings. It is not the users that should be worried, it should be those on the other side that should be worried about how they handle things, because these things that they always want to hide, are only hidden because they want to continue to have the upper hand in the shady things they do.
If I were SSL I'd find someone else to interface with consumers. "Jim" seems to take questions about the plugin as personal attacks and loves to talk about people "flaming" him. Some would label this "cry-bully" behavior. Such a sad and unprofessional way to go about business. Jim, if you read this, it's not about YOU. It's about the software and honesty. When you make it all about you, you give SSL a bad name and exacerbate the rift between SSL and those of us who actually pay for their products.
I did a video also on the Fusion Left Right Discrepancy. Its at the CheadleJuice channel. I didn't even think about it until I saw my meters shifting and thought it might be my cables. Well, my cables were fine. I use the Aurora (n) convertors. I found that the overall piece of gear not very good. I did test after test Audibly and visually for over 8 hours with different material and was able to match the sound of the unit with Kelvin and PA Bettermaker 232 to about 99%(really!). I tried other saturators but that combo was it. Now that I've lived with it and trained my ears to what the box sounds like. I went back to the other demos on youtube demonstrating different sources and now I'm hearing this same sonic imprint that does not work well on most sources. I think you will find this to be a novelty after a while. I returned the unit and bought a pair of Neve 542's and Wes Audio DIONE. The 542's sound magical on every source demonstrated, plus I used to use them for a couple years at a studio I worked in Atlanta so I do remember feeling the same when watching the videos. Brought back a lot of memories. Thanks for reading!
There is even proof on this channel that you don't mind being proven wrong. I recently watched the Waves Helios shootout video where you oversampled it and got much better results. Why is SSL just attacking you instead of proving you wrong or fix their plugin (becouse they know you are right). This is a really immature way of dealing with this issue. Thanks for making this video and good luck on this situation.
We got your back Paul. I find you to be honest. Period. You’ll give props where it’s do and ask for improvement where it’s do. So I’m throwing in with you. Rock on!
What u said is exactly what I was thinking. Why engage in an ad hominem attack when they could just prove you wrong. BTW I was recently thinking of investing in some SSL plugins. After watching ur videos and listening to the comparisons I decided not to but. Instead I downloaded Gsat for free and ALL of the Analog Obsession plugins also for free. (I did subscribe to AO patrion for $5 a month. Thanks Paul for helping me avoid the mistake of investing in SSL.
Everybody messes up, and I think particularly when you’re invested in your work, brand and mission it probably hurts to see what may feel like disparaging feedback.. at the end of the day nobody is perfect, he could of been having a bad day.. even if he wasn’t who cares really. You’re making solid informative videos and you have the right attitude about being open to being proven wrong, which is really commendable. At the end of the day all of us can benefit from taking a chill pill and getting on with making music, which in and of itself isn’t the end of the world! 🎉❤
I really like this video. it was so funny when you did the accent, i know it was actually a serious video and i cant say i disagree with your message. I enjoy when you unbiased go deep with plugins Paul Third, going into harmonics, aliasing, comparing plugins to plugins and plugins to hardware, its entertaining and i learn a lot i didn't know. Its interesting that you also compare Acustica/Nebula plugins to plugins and HW, there are few that focuses only on the sound like you do keep up the good work. You are offering something special on your channel i cant find anywhere else
Goodness.. the level of insecurity in their response to you.. the personal jabs at your LinkedIn as well, shows where that persons level of development is at. I hope the writer can learn from this and become better at how they deal with criticism. Thanks for sharing this with the community. Certainly don’t take this as a representation of SSL as a whole, just one of their employees who will hopefully look back on this one day and shake their head at how poorly they handled the situation.
Dear SSL... perhaps you need someone else to be the voice of your company, unless this IS how you communicate with those who are kind enough to review your products. I have learned a lot about SSL today, and I won't be buying from you until I see a change in how you treat those who don't agree with you. It's NOT WHAT YOU SAID... It's HOW you did it. I'd rather you NOT contact my chosen reviewers for "behind the scenes" anything - it should be public... it's the courtesy they pay YOU, after all. Thank you, Paul... you're clearly a kind spirit trying to do the right thing - and look out for us.
@@PaulThird I appreciate you, and all you share, and I have your back. I wrote to SSL privately, as a customer of theirs, and sent them the link to this video and asked "Is SSL the kind of company who likes to make fun of someone's job?" in response to their LinkedIn comment, and asked them to respond to me... they haven't yet. It can be scary out there being the one to stand up for the little ones, but, Paul, deep down, people are suckers for the TRUTH. You are the truth, and we like you. :)
Hi Paul, dropping a comment in support. Very unprofessional way of handling this, even if there was any validity to his points. The condescending approach and passive aggressive threats were totally unnecessary. Keep up with the quality content!
As a layman with two audio degrees, I find the response from SSL to be extremely unprofessional. I trained on an SSL Duality 48, and I intended to buy one for my own studio one day, but after seeing the response of these people to Paul, I refuse to ever spend money on any SSL product again until they apologize to Paul, and come onto his channel to have a fair and reasonable discussion about his findings of this plug-in. I hope that other engineers who care about the science of their craft do the same.
Seems SSL share the same cocky arrogance that ProTools have, believing that their past success in large studios will save them as the world progresses 'in the box' and leaves them behind. The world doesn't care about who you were and what you had anymore. Todays kids producing 100% in the box won't spend big $£€ on gear when they can get something else that's close for a fraction of the price... They don't care about big fancy studios and what gear 'used to be good'. An ever increasing percentage of todays music is fully produced, mixed, mastered & released without going anywhere near a studio with a large SSL console running the latest version of ProTools. There will be a day, sooner than later I imagine, where big studios fade away and all that's left are the old dinosaur hardware engineers left fighting about who's gear's better in a huge disused studio with a depleting client base while millions of producers sit in their home studio's using VST's that achieve the same result. Regardless if Paul was right or wrong in his analysis, the manner in which an official SSL spokesperson has dealt with this, just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. I would have expected more class and finesse from a company of SSL's reputation, however, this cocky passive-agressive big dick swinging who are you attitude has put SSL firmly in the ranks of ProTools, and more than likely will end down the same dead end road. Oh well, just as well there's 10,000 other plugin's to choose from, most of which are cheaper. Just my 2 cents - Rant over, keep up the good work Paul.
Well said Paul, if SSL can’t prove you wrong or come up with something more concrete more fool them for even mentioning it. Stick your guns we all appreciate your input and advice.
Shame you can't do what Glen Fricker does but it's a bit difficult to take a sledgehammer to software. Ironically he does love the SSL channel strip though. Keep up the good work Paul and don't take any shit.
The most professional thing SSL could have done was update their product or vindicate it through transparent testing. Which you say. I'm extremely disappointed to see a reputable company debase themselves with the kind of unprofessional communication seen here. It's a complete Ad Hominem fallacy to attack you as a reviewer rather than (or in addition to) the review itself. Their forum posts seek to devalue you as a reviewer in the eyes of the audio community, while the petty and manipulative language of their email (particularly the latter portion) seems designed to exacerbate any natural private insecurities you might have yourself. I find that disgusting. That's the stuff you'd expect of an abusive husband, not an audio corporation. The whole 'we make products, not just videos' sanctimony belongs in primary school. It's fallacious logic that is used to undermine critique. The same logic could be employed against reviewers in any form of media you care to name: film reviewers who haven't directed films, book reviewers who haven't written novels, music reviewers who can't play an instrument, etc. Ultimately, SSL seem to have mistaken correct grammar for professional communication and have attacked your person rather than implementing transparent consumer friendly practices. And you've stood your ground like a champion. Paul, I'm so impressed.
This is in part the times we live in. Honesty and directness in critics is nowadays offensive to a lot of groups and companies. In core it´s the same behavior like minority groups, medical "science" and politics. They all want to protect their monopoly in opinions, "facts" and image, especially when money, benefits and tax payer privileges are involved.
Paul you ve been astonishing all the way, without mentionning the astounding work you are doing, the logic and reason have paid, with elegance, which I found so rare nowadays. Keep your ethic, you ve won a HUGE battle, a kind of david vs Goliath story! I m pretty sure it will help a lot in the long run! Awesome, This whole story makes my day! yeeha
Thank you Paul for standing your ground and exposing how marketed and influenced is the plugin business. Really good answer from you. Keep up the good work and your honest and bumpy journey through audio geekery. 🙏🏻
Paul, amazing video. Thank you for shining light on what SSL thinks is fair to do. Ad hominems is never okay, even if someone feels they have been personally attacked. The whole thing stinks. However, remember: You can always talk about your feelings. There's nothing defamatory if you say "I think this sucks" or "I think this guy is a huge dunce". If it is your opinion, you're entitled to express that. If you said "It is without a doubt, and a fact, that SSL are selling software that's deliberately worse than their hardware, so that they can ", then that's different. If you say "I feel they do deliberately ruin their software", then that's your protected opinion, and they can go fuck off. So, there's no reason for you not to speak about how you feel. Maybe that would make this spiral out, but there's no legal side to this. Maybe it would egg them on, but they can fuck off with the way they're behaving. Thanks for your videos. They're very informative, and teach me a lot!
Yeah the legal side of it does get me worried cause in the end I'm just some autistic guy on youtube.. To me I'd only need a lawyer if I got divorced 😂
im very disappointed in the way SSL is choosing their voice and how to be represented, im sorry you had to go through this paul theres nothing i hate more than a disproportionate and unprofessional reaction from a company's team and im definitely reconsidering my options when it comes to mixers. was never interested in their plugins tbh but im definitely not getting that ssl six now
For context Ive used SSL Consoles since 1985 on a regular basis but never really interfaced with the company directly much. Man, you put the wind up them! Incredibly passive / aggressive email.
Paul, thank you for taking time to review products and share your findings. While there was a public apology for one of their employee’s response, the personal email still contains troubling language. If any company wants to refute a revue and instill confidence in their products, the solution is simple; disclose their own analysis and testing methods. I find it interesting that the email to you mentioned PR as a concern. The BEST PR, in my opinion comes from delivering a rock solid product that is beyond reproach. The responses from that company would cause me to re-think my allegiance to their brand, as I am a huge SSL proponent; at least for the time being.
I effin love this, Paul, I knew you were the best of them and this is when you had only 8k. Effin hell, mate this SSL reaction screams they did exactly the thing you said - for all intents and giggles whilst sitting around a table tearing the heart out of the guys who actually give a shit about making the very best thing they could - turning the plugin into an effin advert. I know this is too old for you to probably check so late after, but cheers anyway, you effin legend.
I love your channel. I always got into discussions with people who boasted about emulations and used them as something mandatory, without having heard or seen real hardware in Zivot. I love this channel because it's honest and honesty hurts we know who
I'm impressed you were able to pick out that difference. I wasn't hearing enough of a difference myself to be able to accurately pick the plugin vs. the hardware. Here I thought I had good monitoring. Or maybe I need I need better ears 🥺
I had the time to set it up and critically listen. That's why I was able to pick them out at different drive settings. Once you know what your actually listening for it becomes easier which you especially need when doing triple blind tests
@@PaulThird Just put on my headphones to listen again and the vocal sounded more forward and the high end sounded more "open" on the plugin, and the fusion sounded "warmer" with a little more low-end, but not necessarily better to me. On my headphones I can definitely hear a clear difference between the Fusion and Plugin, but if I had to pick what I liked the sound of better not knowing what I was listening to I would've picked the plugin, lol.
Paul if your test is NOT wrong and you can hear a difference. Well I would say maybe it's right then. Even if every other plugin they make is fine. You can't ask Rupert unless you get a Seance booked. I think they may have increased your subscribers a tad
I've seen low-frequency artifacts coming through my low-frequency speakers, and I don't appreciate it. It doesn't matter whether I can hear it or not. I don't like the wear-and-tear on my speakers. All I need is for my voice coil tubes to start scratching from banging when they bottom out on a low frequency. As an aside, when I listened to the manufacturer's message, I noticed the use of poor English grammar. What does that say for the manufacturer?
lmao wowwww. These emails/posts are jaw dropping. Imagine not being able to comprehend that someone who knows about carpets and tiles might also be able to know about other things - even when linkedin hasn't bestowed appropriate medals. The whole tone of this..."I can ask some of the engineers from R&D to step in", "so their ears are tuned to the family sound"...pass me a bucket to be sick in.
I couldn't stop smiling and occasionally laughing while watching this video. Life can be brutal at times and have us questioning our self worth. I want you to know that I appreciate you and your content and wish there were more people like you in the world. There are good and bad aspects to everything in life and you're what's good about RUclips. Stay safe and remember how important you are.
That was absolutely hilarious, Paul. I've seen every SSL video for the last few years and I know SSL Jim's voice very well. Your parody will go down in the history books of sound engineers. As a German, I always have to think of Monty Python when I hear British people talking funny :)10 out of 10 points for this unique video.
I make plugins as a hobby and I use a combination of matlab and plugin doctor for analysis. I'm unaware of anything commercial or otherwise that's more superior 🤷♂️
18:54 You know, on a lot of these wet/dry or hardware/vst plugins, I feel like the differences are often subtle, niggling, or downright invisible due to either source material, youtube compression, or just my more gentle attitude towards compression and mastering. However! This one was drastic. The moment you clicked the third button, I thought "ope! someone's in trouble, and it ain't me and it ain't Paul" 🤣🤣🤣
Haha. The Begbroke guys have found out that there are RUclipsrs who don't just look at the shiny GUI of plugins, but dare to have an opinion ;-) Disclaimer: I'm an SSL fan since the 80s. I own a lot of (old and new) SSL gear. But I love Paul's videos!
If there's one thing I'm never going to deny.. Is the quality of SSL hardware. There's a reason why they are one of the most used and admired hardware manufacturers. However theres a difference between making gear and coding plugins 😜 haha.. Fs I do it to myself 😂
Weeoooo more P3 drama. In all honesty stoked you went ahead and did this. Sometimes you gotta respond, especially toward a Goliath like SSL. I would love to see them respond with A/B testing. Would also love to see some.code but I'm certain that's never going to happen.
Didn't like the accented parts but I never do. It feels a bit disingenuous to me and I wish you had only extracted their concrete points and addressed those (as well as pointing out any bad faith attacks). I respect that you do you and go ahead and do it anyway. I just pause the video and read it.
That response was mostly defensive and unnecessarily personal, which made the few substantive parts of their response less credible and less useful. Further, they just weren't very convincing. Regarding your "tone" -- I actually find you videos to include a lot of qualifiers and to be measured, and not reactionary or troll-ish, which is what I like about your videos/reviews. The accent used while reading that email, however, was one of the more challenging things I've had to listen to this week 😂
I paused the video and read the email haha. I got your back though Paul. Ur a fantastic creator. I agree with you 100%, SSL needs to prove the video wrong or move on
Paul that was brilliant! The accent was comedy genius & it was class.. Jim fae SSL seems a bit of a stickler as a genius of sound would be.. If I was SSL I'd have given you a cheeky wee analogue SSL for you to test away to your hearts content (on your records) & showing the viewer they are a company with no fear of wee coorin timerous frequencies.. Plus a new ssl would have bought me off.. Ken? Great work my brother - mon the Asties 🤘🏽😎
Well done exposing them. As a company even if they disagree 100% with a RUclipsr, they should embrace free speech and opinions. If something is off anyhow it will be flagged in 100 other youtube videos. Shame on them.
This video made me a fan. There's a ton of RUclipsrs who talk music biz or review plugins, but the ones who will give you their honest opinion regardless of popularity? I can count those channels on five fingers. Keep on keepin on. New subscriber here.
I would also like to know what analyzers the developers use… Good point Paul!! I own a lot of high end hardware, as well as licensed software plug-in versions of the same gear - the difference is usually pretty significant (obviously….). This is just my opinion of course.
I agree Paul, SSL should be arguing their point with data. Doing so otherwise seems fishy at best on SSL's part and doesn't help their case at all. I would however support developers ignoring requests about what tools and how they analyze hardware when modelling, that's propriety IP and shouldn't be shared where it could be used by a competitor.
You explain the converging lines of evidence between multiple objective data points and blind testing to validate your hypothesis. Professor emeritus of analytic philosophy Harry Frankfurt republished his seminal work "On Bullshit" in 2005. I would argue that he would approve of your stance. I hope you are rewarded for believing your own thinking, if this happened more often our artistic and cultural landscape would be all the richer.
One important piece of evidence is Jim's admission that his hardware product produces an effect he had been unaware of. Extrapolating, what other things about his products might he not understand, or even know about?
Surely he must have known the hardware was showing harmonics in the sides. They've stated that they intended the fusion to be perfect stereo but thats not what came out due to analog tolerances which is the 'magic' of the fusion.. So I'm wrong for saying the plugin purposely doesn't sound like the hardware when he's admitting they created a perfectly digital stereo version 🙃 I give up sometimes 😂
I’m starting to think all this plug in stuff is mostly snake oil marketing and ego. Fantastic mixes can be done with stock used correctly. The listener don’t give a shit what plugs were used as long as the song moves them, and it holds up well compared to professional mixes. What do you think?.
Perhaps for songs that are created drag and drop, sampled stuff which already sounds good, but for someone using organic mic-ed instruments, the better plugs make a huge difference🤠😃
Yeah tbh I'm using less plugins than ever before. My new single comes out on Friday and I'm pretty happy with it but more due to the production and how I managed to incorporate a lot of different elements. I really mixed the song to have a balance. No over eq'ing and way less colour than I've ever used.. But give me 3 months after release and I'll hate it 😂
The email wasn't bad the forum comments were insane though.why he did that is unfathomable..keep up the good work and..any chance you could do Skoda cars next...;))
I think a defense response is totally fine, and wanted - that manufacturers defend themselves and respond to false (or true) criticism. That is what we actually want. Or as I might have said on my channel "these bastards we need answers now", lol. What I mean is, that the fact that they are paying attention is great. That wasn't the case always. Barry Johns calling out Avid and UAD, Julian Krause, White Sea, little me and others. All things considered, these are small channels, not 200K subscribers, and yet large manufacturers are starting to respond and take notice. That is good. Eventually they will learn to not respond in a defensive way but engage with us about their product. Or even about product they are working on. I think our community is small and based on excitement but bad news travel fast. We understand that we all make mistakes and I think we are a forgiving community, as long as manufacturers want to be part of our community and not some overlords that see us as recipients of "product". My channel isn't nearly as good as this one in terms of analysis and detailed comparisons, but I think we are all coming together more, working in the same direction. I've raved about SSL in one video and attacked the flaws in another. Same with UAD, While YT videos and blogs been around forever, I think we are seeing a shift. Driven by the Saints of the revolution, such as Paul3rd, JayKay, Larry Bond 007 and Wite Cee. And forgive me for incorrectly spelling these names on purpose, I always wanted to see how it looks like, now that I type it out.
Hahaha.. your accent verged on Blakey from 70's sitcom "On The Buses"... "I'm gonna get you Thirdy"! 😂 I just love that you didn't capitulate to his very loaded passive aggressive threatening email. 👏
It was hard but I genuinely needed my audience to give their opinion on the email as with my aspergers I can really read stuff the wrong way. I've been stung a few times and had the piss taken out of me not that long ago so it's good to have such a big soundboard 🤓
Look, SSL has been king of the hill for 4 decades. After Neve making some horrible creative decisions from the 80s onwards SSL was hands down the industry standard. But now with competition in the mid format console being so fierce and secondly coming to the proprietary plug-in market c late they are feeling the heat for the first time, possibly in their company history. Finally they are used to people being v respectful toward them.
@@PaulThird there are few things more impressive and alpha than going up against a powerful organisation on principle, let alone having them adapt their behaviours and apologise. That shows you have character, brains and balls, unlike the clown who wrote to you.
Well done for standing up to Jim@SSL, the big bully! You showed their plugin doesn’t sound/measure like the hardware. Simples! They should thank you and work on improving their plugin code. Jim@SSL’s behaviour sadly reflects badly on him and the reputation of a company held in high regard by many in the industry. Keep up the great work. And I can’t wait for your review of the new SSL Native Channel Strip 2 & Bus Compressor 2. 😊🙏🏽
Imagine having such a confrontation with Waves. You'd have to pay for an insulting and condescending email by them in the first place, and then subscribe to WUP for any further update on the argument.
I worked in the music industry as a marketing director and I can tell you that it was common to tell the press "we will not continue our ads in your magazine when you publish a negative product review again." Nowadays the big companies have a problem: they can't control social media. I would look for a good lawyer. I can imagine that there are some other serious RUclips channels that face the same problem. The freedom of press is an invaluable human right in democracies.
Yeah I think cause I don't need devs to give me plugins to make videos or make a living via paid videos and stuff I have the luxury of giving my own opinion and deciding when or if I make a video which I imagine to be pretty concerning for many developers as they have zero control over what I put out This is the first time I've faced this level of scrutiny though but I'm glad it turned out OK in the end I'm still to recieve a direct apology so it looks like it was only for the benefit of the gearspace community to calm the situation down
@@PaulThird SSL has to save their brand for the next generations. There will be a time when young producers will not know who ssl is. We are living in this transition period from hardware to software. It's a fact. The same is true in other industries. They are afraid of a small RUclipsr who dares to criticize the untouchable SSL brand. Get yourself an islay single malt and smile.
You’re doing great! What if SSL would hire you to help them come closer to the hardware instead and they could actually use that to market the product. As you say. No developer show you these measurements and proofing the accuracy between the hardware and the software. Imagine the impact if a developer would start to show how to measure and compare to the hardware… the entire market would have to follow and refurbish most of the plugins.
Would've taken SSL less time to demonstrate audibly and visually how you were wrong. But instead they hope to smear word poo all over the walls with a wall of text. SSL get your egos in check. You're a business. We're your customers. We don't care for pettiness we just want to get what we pay for.
For the longest time audio companies had control over different publications because these publications make minimum $1,000 per advertisement. So if a magazine or website wrote a negative review guess what? No more expensive ad revenue! But because now there are so many audio engineering RUclips channels that have a big reach and because of companies like mix analog and access analog we can compare hardware to software. Not just people who can afford expensive equipment but basically anyone who has an extra $20 to throw around can do it. And they're not happy about that. They're not happy that the "little people" are uncontrollable. I'm honestly shocked by SSL's behavior because they are one of the companies I respect. I'm glad to read that Jim apologized but the damage to the company's reputation has been done.
I like your review on tools I think its always fair and realistic. SSL Native really liked that bundle'' Not so much the fusion tool. But the channel strip, Bus, Drums strip, Verb, All them other tools are really good. Got most of them practically free.
What a shameful unprofessional behavour from SSL. They´re blowing this up, like this is fucked up! They´re using the same tools just in expensive hardware boxes!
Thanks for the vids on this Paul. Clearly the quality of SSL software is no match for their hardware. The behaviour of their rep was astonishing. You hit a nerve... Issuing veiled threats, condescending, passive-aggressive, contemptuous and patronising. Wow. You, found-them-out. SSL just fix your broken plugin (or lower the silly price). Keep up the good work!
*This is the price you have to pay as an influencer.* Personally, I like your videos and I am not bothered if you have an "official legitimation" (as an audio engineer) or not and I also always consider your recommenadations! What I miss is technical tips how to do something in mixing for instance. Like Kush Audio guy, who explains how to do this or that.
As a manufacturer we don’t actively take part in user forums as clearly having a vested interest in the brands and products we are connected with means it doesn’t seem ethical to play an active role. That said we are aware that a number of our team are passionate music creators and they personally take part in the forums and in the main this is done in a positive and open way as people will have seen from historical posts by various SSL staff.
Unfortunately recently one of our team over stepped the mark with a post stating their own personal opinions and using rather poor language. To make matters worse the individual regrettably used their company email to approach an independent reviewer related to the same posting, again with some badly worded personal suggestions on how best to test equipment. This was clearly not acceptable and we have spoken with the individual to ensure that this error of judgement will not occur again.
This occurrence was not a statement of the company’s opinion and it is not characteristic of our company nor does it reflect the long standing reputation of Solid State Logic in our industry. We are disappointed with this indiscretion and have taken the matter very seriously. We do though hope and feel that the apology that has been publicly made by the individual on the forum and the emailed apology that will be made privately to the reviewer, combined with this company statement will demonstrate that we are not supportive of this kind of correspondence.
We hope this puts a close to what has been a regrettable incident and we apologise for any upset this personal post has caused.
Solid State Logic
To SSL's credit, this is the only acceptable way for them to handle this situation. Regrettable indeed, and the damage control on their side seems reasonable. I think Paul is providing an extremely important service for everyone concerned, even the manufacturers.
Sooooo what tools DO you guys use to measure the hardware as well as the results of the modeling process in the final plug-in product releases and how do you compare the two?? 😏 And yes it’s nice to see you take some action on someone’s poor representation of your company. I happen to have taken receipt of a Fusion myself and can’t wait to dive into it.
It's strange to me that a people at a company like SSL would see a video demonstrating the differences between the emulated version and the hardware version of a piece of gear and get so upset that they would threaten a lawsuit. The guy didn't explicitly say it, but I feel like we all got that impression reading the eMail.
This comment mentions "passion" and I'm certainly no stranger of taking offence at what is CLEARLY intended to be an objective observation, but come on...There are other, much smaller companies that have received similar criticism from RUclipsrs such as White Sea Studios and rather than getting overly upset and practically say everything except "Say it again, and we'll sue you," they...Fixed the problem. If ANYONE from ANY small startup company sent something like this in an eMail, that company would be in for some rough months ahead, if not totally bankrupt by the end of the quarter, but no. Instead, it's someone from SSL who has gotten an overly large ego because "I work at SSL so you can't say anything negative, objective or not. ESPECIALLY if more than 1,000 people hear it!" This is part of why so many people are furious that these companies can make such a large chunk of an industry's profits. They're so wealthy and so profitable that they can throw large chunks of money at lawyers for seemingly any problem and the problem just vanishes.
This is not how you stop objectively negative reviews. This is how you create PR nightmares. You stop objectively negative reviews by fixing the problem, or at the very least, explaining why the problem doesn't actually exist because, as was brought up in an okay manner in the eMail (Although it still comes off as whining like a spoiled brat, given the context), you are modeling it differently than it's being measured, or component tolerance differences exist, or whatever else that can happen. Although, I suppose I can be happy that someone at SSL is mindful of situations like this, but it sounds like a select few individuals let money and ego get the better of them.
I guess this turned into a whiny rant just like that eMail. Oh well. I'll just take a bunch of hate comments and release a public apology in 2 days and the problem will get better, right?
I'm astounded Jim wasn't asked by the board to step down for his appalling representation of SSL. Over 13,000 views as of today - that's gotta hurt.
shame, I was just about to spend money. will save it for a company that knows how to communicate with its loyal customers
"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."
When you are getting mails like this it only shows that you’re doing a great job in reviewing plugins. Keep it up.
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😀 TheFatRat 😲
Exactly
It honestly baffles me how much power one youtuber can have on a multinational company so much that they comment on the response video.. big W Paul.
For anybody confused why I made the decision to make this. Sometimes you've just got to stand up for yourself. I couldve left it and hid but I decided to do the opposite. I'm fine to deal with feedback and criticism from big companies and have done so in the past in a professional manner but with this one.. Nah I'm just no being pushed about.. Its the Scottish stubbornness in me 🤣
Well done Paul, I've been engineering for a long time and we all want to learn right? Thanks for using your ears, being curious and asking questions!
I support this
thats called bullying . thats what they try to do to silence those who expose their gimmicks. they want to lie to consumers , extort money from you and get away with it ,whilst these big name engineers get payed to support their nonsense. if they want to prove that their product is what they say it is , then make videos to debunk the false information. thats all...but no ,try to intimidate the youtube guy...thats weak and shameless. continue to bring the videos.
SSL have shot themselves in the foot with this idiotic letter. They are a busted flush selling good products but have hit a dead end. Now they want to approach the budget market and have their evangelists creating the demand for them. No one gave a monkeys about SSL until they started with the emulations that sounds just like the real thing and then a few years later it doesn’t lol. Thank God I didn’t fall for this nonsense. I use Cakewalk’s fake analogue console channel but I’m not under any illusions. It is a digital plugin, very good for what it does. But it is not analogue really is it?
Hellloooo Paul Third. Good on you. Respect dude. You have called out these assholes on what we all know is true. Marketing bullshit. I 100% agree with you and rely on your videos to cut through the marketing spin that these developers spit at us in an attempt to get our hard earned cash. The plugin world has become a bukkake of verbal ejeculate with promises of that" professional hardware sound" which we know makes no economic sense if those said units are still in production. To think these plugins match the sound of of gear worth thousands of dollars more makes zero sense. Imagine going to your bank manager with that business plan??? " yes we want to release a plugin for $100 that emulates the sound of our $3000 hardware unit that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to manufacture." Even a bank moron would see problems in this plan. Anyway I could spit on for pages but my only objective here is to let you know I support you and would love to bitch slap that c**t from SSL back to his daycare centre in time for his lunchtime nap. What a child. Respect for your caution and the professional way you have dealt with these useless foreskins. And although I'm a fan of Dan W videos and rate his knowledge and expertise, he too acted like a petty child when responding to your previous video. So thankyou for having the balls to say what you believe . Look forward to see what knickers you knot in upcoming videos. Respect from downunder....
I think you absolutely did the right thing making this video. It's embarrassing to watch a huge company like SSL make thinly-veiled threads against someone calling out flaws in their product. I'm sure it would have been an entirely different story if they had reached out to you in a kind and friendly way suggesting a different set of tests or adjustment to your testing process, but being blatantly threatening is so wrong. If anything, everyone who's purchased an SSL software product should now be wondering what other issues are hiding in the products they bought, and what lengths SSL will go to suppress dialogue about those. What a shame, huge fan of the sound of SSL's products, and I hope they apologize to you for this.
They obviously feel very strongly about what I've said and feel that I'm giving out misinformation so if that's how they feel then fair enough but yeah I think the personal stuff was uncalled for especially as there would be nothing stopping me from trying out other native plugins and liking them.. But I think you'd imagine why I'm not interested in ssl plugins right now haha
@@PaulThird You summed it up in the outro of the video perfectly. The only one SSL is hurting by trying to undermine your credibility and the tests you use is themselves. Best thing they can do is provide evidence to support their position, like adults.
2 observations - One, you should feel AMAZING that they actually took the time out to send you that kind of email - that means you are having a huge impact. Two, I lost a TON of respect for the brand just based off that email and the GS thread - very fucking douchey behavior, kind of reminds me of AVID which I boycotted over a decade ago.
What happened with avid?
Yeah avid has become a trash company I fear ssl are too provocative I wish they don't value money over quality as avid did.
@@PaulThird They are extremely smug - they never take suggestions from their users and their pricing is insane. They haven't innovated anything since beat detector.... If you want some good background on Avid check out Barry Johns Studio Talk, they banned him from their forum for just telling the truth.
daaammm I totally agree hahaha thats exactly what I thought wen I was adding my comment to Pauls video that SSL Is sounding like Avid , thats I why I don't use Protools any more ,
@@aviatedviewssound4798 Avid has always been a trash company. I worked in broadcast and motion graphics for years and they were always an overpriced “name” when there were plenty of products that did as good or better a job in video editing or audio.
This was not just a response. Sounded more like a threat in the begining imo. Very disapointing of such a big company.
It was a passive-aggressive threat. "Keep it up and I have the power to get our lawyers involved." Cowardly
I support this whole heartedly. We've spent FAR too long hiding from the things that we imagine could be done to us because of our knowledgeable and well thought out opinions. I really hope that this becomes a trend with RUclipss and other people with social access and followings. It is not the users that should be worried, it should be those on the other side that should be worried about how they handle things, because these things that they always want to hide, are only hidden because they want to continue to have the upper hand in the shady things they do.
If I were SSL I'd find someone else to interface with consumers. "Jim" seems to take questions about the plugin as personal attacks and loves to talk about people "flaming" him. Some would label this "cry-bully" behavior. Such a sad and unprofessional way to go about business. Jim, if you read this, it's not about YOU. It's about the software and honesty. When you make it all about you, you give SSL a bad name and exacerbate the rift between SSL and those of us who actually pay for their products.
I did a video also on the Fusion Left Right Discrepancy. Its at the CheadleJuice channel. I didn't even think about it until I saw my meters shifting and thought it might be my cables. Well, my cables were fine. I use the Aurora (n) convertors. I found that the overall piece of gear not very good. I did test after test Audibly and visually for over 8 hours with different material and was able to match the sound of the unit with Kelvin and PA Bettermaker 232 to about 99%(really!). I tried other saturators but that combo was it. Now that I've lived with it and trained my ears to what the box sounds like. I went back to the other demos on youtube demonstrating different sources and now I'm hearing this same sonic imprint that does not work well on most sources. I think you will find this to be a novelty after a while. I returned the unit and bought a pair of Neve 542's and Wes Audio DIONE. The 542's sound magical on every source demonstrated, plus I used to use them for a couple years at a studio I worked in Atlanta so I do remember feeling the same when watching the videos. Brought back a lot of memories. Thanks for reading!
There is even proof on this channel that you don't mind being proven wrong. I recently watched the Waves Helios shootout video where you oversampled it and got much better results. Why is SSL just attacking you instead of proving you wrong or fix their plugin (becouse they know you are right). This is a really immature way of dealing with this issue. Thanks for making this video and good luck on this situation.
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We got your back Paul. I find you to be honest. Period. You’ll give props where it’s do and ask for improvement where it’s do. So I’m throwing in with you. Rock on!
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What u said is exactly what I was thinking. Why engage in an ad hominem attack when they could just prove you wrong.
BTW I was recently thinking of investing in some SSL plugins. After watching ur videos and listening to the comparisons I decided not to but. Instead I downloaded Gsat for free and ALL of the Analog Obsession plugins also for free. (I did subscribe to AO patrion for $5 a month. Thanks Paul for helping me avoid the mistake of investing in SSL.
Everybody messes up, and I think particularly when you’re invested in your work, brand and mission it probably hurts to see what may feel like disparaging feedback.. at the end of the day nobody is perfect, he could of been having a bad day.. even if he wasn’t who cares really.
You’re making solid informative videos and you have the right attitude about being open to being proven wrong, which is really commendable.
At the end of the day all of us can benefit from taking a chill pill and getting on with making music, which in and of itself isn’t the end of the world! 🎉❤
I really like this video. it was so funny when you did the accent, i know it was actually a serious video and i cant say i disagree with your message.
I enjoy when you unbiased go deep with plugins Paul Third, going into harmonics, aliasing, comparing plugins to plugins and plugins to hardware, its entertaining and i learn a lot i didn't know.
Its interesting that you also compare Acustica/Nebula plugins to plugins and HW, there are few that focuses only on the sound like you do
keep up the good work. You are offering something special on your channel i cant find anywhere else
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Goodness.. the level of insecurity in their response to you.. the personal jabs at your LinkedIn as well, shows where that persons level of development is at. I hope the writer can learn from this and become better at how they deal with criticism. Thanks for sharing this with the community. Certainly don’t take this as a representation of SSL as a whole, just one of their employees who will hopefully look back on this one day and shake their head at how poorly they handled the situation.
Dear SSL... perhaps you need someone else to be the voice of your company, unless this IS how you communicate with those who are kind enough to review your products. I have learned a lot about SSL today, and I won't be buying from you until I see a change in how you treat those who don't agree with you. It's NOT WHAT YOU SAID... It's HOW you did it. I'd rather you NOT contact my chosen reviewers for "behind the scenes" anything - it should be public... it's the courtesy they pay YOU, after all. Thank you, Paul... you're clearly a kind spirit trying to do the right thing - and look out for us.
I'll always try and look after you guys 🤜🤛 even if it does get me in trouble from time to time 😅
@@PaulThird I appreciate you, and all you share, and I have your back. I wrote to SSL privately, as a customer of theirs, and sent them the link to this video and asked "Is SSL the kind of company who likes to make fun of someone's job?" in response to their LinkedIn comment, and asked them to respond to me... they haven't yet. It can be scary out there being the one to stand up for the little ones, but, Paul, deep down, people are suckers for the TRUTH. You are the truth, and we like you. :)
Hi Paul, dropping a comment in support. Very unprofessional way of handling this, even if there was any validity to his points. The condescending approach and passive aggressive threats were totally unnecessary.
Keep up with the quality content!
Badass! Okay now I'll officially subscribe! :-) Thanks for keeping it real mate.
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As a layman with two audio degrees, I find the response from SSL to be extremely unprofessional. I trained on an SSL Duality 48, and I intended to buy one for my own studio one day, but after seeing the response of these people to Paul, I refuse to ever spend money on any SSL product again until they apologize to Paul, and come onto his channel to have a fair and reasonable discussion about his findings of this plug-in. I hope that other engineers who care about the science of their craft do the same.
yes I agree.
I agree
Seems SSL share the same cocky arrogance that ProTools have, believing that their past success in large studios will save them as the world progresses 'in the box' and leaves them behind. The world doesn't care about who you were and what you had anymore. Todays kids producing 100% in the box won't spend big $£€ on gear when they can get something else that's close for a fraction of the price... They don't care about big fancy studios and what gear 'used to be good'. An ever increasing percentage of todays music is fully produced, mixed, mastered & released without going anywhere near a studio with a large SSL console running the latest version of ProTools. There will be a day, sooner than later I imagine, where big studios fade away and all that's left are the old dinosaur hardware engineers left fighting about who's gear's better in a huge disused studio with a depleting client base while millions of producers sit in their home studio's using VST's that achieve the same result. Regardless if Paul was right or wrong in his analysis, the manner in which an official SSL spokesperson has dealt with this, just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. I would have expected more class and finesse from a company of SSL's reputation, however, this cocky passive-agressive big dick swinging who are you attitude has put SSL firmly in the ranks of ProTools, and more than likely will end down the same dead end road. Oh well, just as well there's 10,000 other plugin's to choose from, most of which are cheaper. Just my 2 cents - Rant over, keep up the good work Paul.
Fully agree .
I'd love to hear Dan Worrall's opinion on this.
I don't know if I could go through it all again 😂
Dan just did a video on the Violet EQ... That's worth a watch!
Another SSL bashing haha
That SSL dude is an audio Tyrant
Well said Paul, if SSL can’t prove you wrong or come up with something more concrete more fool them for even mentioning it. Stick your guns we all appreciate your input and advice.
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Shame you can't do what Glen Fricker does but it's a bit difficult to take a sledgehammer to software. Ironically he does love the SSL channel strip though. Keep up the good work Paul and don't take any shit.
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I don't think he uses the SSL one though. I often see him the waves or brainworxs one
@@rossbalch He uses $50 Channel Strip2 and Bus Compressor2 essential bundle.
You nailed Paul! SSL just lost even more points with me.
The most professional thing SSL could have done was update their product or vindicate it through transparent testing. Which you say. I'm extremely disappointed to see a reputable company debase themselves with the kind of unprofessional communication seen here.
It's a complete Ad Hominem fallacy to attack you as a reviewer rather than (or in addition to) the review itself. Their forum posts seek to devalue you as a reviewer in the eyes of the audio community, while the petty and manipulative language of their email (particularly the latter portion) seems designed to exacerbate any natural private insecurities you might have yourself. I find that disgusting. That's the stuff you'd expect of an abusive husband, not an audio corporation.
The whole 'we make products, not just videos' sanctimony belongs in primary school. It's fallacious logic that is used to undermine critique. The same logic could be employed against reviewers in any form of media you care to name: film reviewers who haven't directed films, book reviewers who haven't written novels, music reviewers who can't play an instrument, etc.
Ultimately, SSL seem to have mistaken correct grammar for professional communication and have attacked your person rather than implementing transparent consumer friendly practices. And you've stood your ground like a champion. Paul, I'm so impressed.
One of the best comments 👏
This is in part the times we live in. Honesty and directness in critics is nowadays offensive to a lot of groups and companies. In core it´s the same behavior like minority groups, medical "science" and politics. They all want to protect their monopoly in opinions, "facts" and image, especially when money, benefits and tax payer privileges are involved.
Paul you ve been astonishing all the way, without mentionning the astounding work you are doing, the logic and reason have paid, with elegance, which I found so rare nowadays. Keep your ethic, you ve won a HUGE battle, a kind of david vs Goliath story! I m pretty sure it will help a lot in the long run!
Awesome, This whole story makes my day! yeeha
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Thank you Paul for standing your ground and exposing how marketed and influenced is the plugin business. Really good answer from you. Keep up the good work and your honest and bumpy journey through audio geekery. 🙏🏻
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Paul, amazing video. Thank you for shining light on what SSL thinks is fair to do. Ad hominems is never okay, even if someone feels they have been personally attacked. The whole thing stinks. However, remember: You can always talk about your feelings. There's nothing defamatory if you say "I think this sucks" or "I think this guy is a huge dunce". If it is your opinion, you're entitled to express that. If you said "It is without a doubt, and a fact, that SSL are selling software that's deliberately worse than their hardware, so that they can ", then that's different. If you say "I feel they do deliberately ruin their software", then that's your protected opinion, and they can go fuck off.
So, there's no reason for you not to speak about how you feel. Maybe that would make this spiral out, but there's no legal side to this. Maybe it would egg them on, but they can fuck off with the way they're behaving.
Thanks for your videos. They're very informative, and teach me a lot!
Yeah the legal side of it does get me worried cause in the end I'm just some autistic guy on youtube.. To me I'd only need a lawyer if I got divorced 😂
Agree with you Paul... ssl needs their devs to show quantifiable proof or share what analyzers they are using. Keep up the good work Paul.
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im very disappointed in the way SSL is choosing their voice and how to be represented, im sorry you had to go through this paul
theres nothing i hate more than a disproportionate and unprofessional reaction from a company's team and im definitely reconsidering my options when it comes to mixers. was never interested in their plugins tbh but im definitely not getting that ssl six now
For context Ive used SSL Consoles since 1985 on a regular basis but never really interfaced with the company directly much. Man, you put the wind up them! Incredibly passive / aggressive email.
Paul, thank you for taking time to review products and share your findings. While there was a public apology for one of their employee’s response, the personal email still contains troubling language. If any company wants to refute a revue and instill confidence in their products, the solution is simple; disclose their own analysis and testing methods. I find it interesting that the email to you mentioned PR as a concern. The BEST PR, in my opinion comes from delivering a rock solid product that is beyond reproach. The responses from that company would cause me to re-think my allegiance to their brand, as I am a huge SSL proponent; at least for the time being.
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We're totally with you Paul. I'm just ordering that suit of armor for you for Xmas...
😂😂😂😂 Mate I feel like I am gonna need it soon hahaha
Doing this community a great favor by doing these tests 👏 🙌 🙏 👍
I effin love this, Paul, I knew you were the best of them and this is when you had only 8k. Effin hell, mate this SSL reaction screams they did exactly the thing you said - for all intents and giggles whilst sitting around a table tearing the heart out of the guys who actually give a shit about making the very best thing they could - turning the plugin into an effin advert. I know this is too old for you to probably check so late after, but cheers anyway, you effin legend.
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Great work bro! I could easily hear the bass bump in your video & passed the blind test every time!!!
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This video is entertaining as hell... and also embarrassing for SSL. Glad you did this video. I'm curious to watch the review mentioned, I missed it.
Also.. the accent! LOL!
It's in the description 🤓
@@PaulThird yeah, I went to your videos and bookmarked it for tomorrow.
I love your channel. I always got into discussions with people who boasted about emulations and used them as something mandatory, without having heard or seen real hardware in Zivot. I love this channel because it's honest and honesty hurts we know who
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I'm impressed you were able to pick out that difference. I wasn't hearing enough of a difference myself to be able to accurately pick the plugin vs. the hardware. Here I thought I had good monitoring. Or maybe I need I need better ears 🥺
I had the time to set it up and critically listen. That's why I was able to pick them out at different drive settings. Once you know what your actually listening for it becomes easier which you especially need when doing triple blind tests
@@PaulThird Just put on my headphones to listen again and the vocal sounded more forward and the high end sounded more "open" on the plugin, and the fusion sounded "warmer" with a little more low-end, but not necessarily better to me. On my headphones I can definitely hear a clear difference between the Fusion and Plugin, but if I had to pick what I liked the sound of better not knowing what I was listening to I would've picked the plugin, lol.
And that's why audio is subjective 🤓 however.. As you'll agree. The fusion plug doesn't sound like the hardware
Thanks for your transparency about SSL's reaction, Paul. If I could give you two thumbs-up for this vid, I would. Jim... tch tch tch.
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Paul if your test is NOT wrong and you can hear a difference. Well I would say maybe it's right then. Even if every other plugin they make is fine. You can't ask Rupert unless you get a Seance booked. I think they may have increased your subscribers a tad
I've seen low-frequency artifacts coming through my low-frequency speakers, and I don't appreciate it. It doesn't matter whether I can hear it or not. I don't like the wear-and-tear on my speakers. All I need is for my voice coil tubes to start scratching from banging when they bottom out on a low frequency. As an aside, when I listened to the manufacturer's message, I noticed the use of poor English grammar. What does that say for the manufacturer?
That's a very good point that I would have never thought of regarding low frequency speakers 🤓
The truth doesn’t mind being questioned..
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lmao wowwww. These emails/posts are jaw dropping. Imagine not being able to comprehend that someone who knows about carpets and tiles might also be able to know about other things - even when linkedin hasn't bestowed appropriate medals. The whole tone of this..."I can ask some of the engineers from R&D to step in", "so their ears are tuned to the family sound"...pass me a bucket to be sick in.
Great Paul! Stay true, your community is supporting you always!!
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This was both entertaining and informative...
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I couldn't stop smiling and occasionally laughing while watching this video. Life can be brutal at times and have us questioning our self worth. I want you to know that I appreciate you and your content and wish there were more people like you in the world. There are good and bad aspects to everything in life and you're what's good about RUclips. Stay safe and remember how important you are.
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That was absolutely hilarious, Paul. I've seen every SSL video for the last few years and I know SSL Jim's voice very well. Your parody will go down in the history books of sound engineers. As a German, I always have to think of Monty Python when I hear British people talking funny :)10 out of 10 points for this unique video.
What does he actually sound like? Haha
Adding comment just to make this video visible.
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Great Job! Thinks you are doing great videos!
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I make plugins as a hobby and I use a combination of matlab and plugin doctor for analysis. I'm unaware of anything commercial or otherwise that's more superior 🤷♂️
Cool. I'll definitely need to take a look at matlab. Thanks for your insight 🤓
18:54 You know, on a lot of these wet/dry or hardware/vst plugins, I feel like the differences are often subtle, niggling, or downright invisible due to either source material, youtube compression, or just my more gentle attitude towards compression and mastering. However! This one was drastic. The moment you clicked the third button, I thought "ope! someone's in trouble, and it ain't me and it ain't Paul" 🤣🤣🤣
I purposely re-imported the shootout clip using better filmora settings I just found so I had a suspicion people would hear it clearer this time 🤓
Love it :) keep us updated
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Huge respect to you for making this
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Haha. The Begbroke guys have found out that there are RUclipsrs who don't just look at the shiny GUI of plugins, but dare to have an opinion ;-) Disclaimer: I'm an SSL fan since the 80s. I own a lot of (old and new) SSL gear. But I love Paul's videos!
If there's one thing I'm never going to deny.. Is the quality of SSL hardware. There's a reason why they are one of the most used and admired hardware manufacturers.
However theres a difference between making gear and coding plugins 😜 haha.. Fs I do it to myself 😂
Thanks for keeping it real! Best, D
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Weeoooo more P3 drama.
In all honesty stoked you went ahead and did this. Sometimes you gotta respond, especially toward a Goliath like SSL. I would love to see them respond with A/B testing. Would also love to see some.code but I'm certain that's never going to happen.
Didn't like the accented parts but I never do. It feels a bit disingenuous to me and I wish you had only extracted their concrete points and addressed those (as well as pointing out any bad faith attacks). I respect that you do you and go ahead and do it anyway. I just pause the video and read it.
I know it's purely for watch time as if have a silent gap then people would maybe switch off haha
That response was mostly defensive and unnecessarily personal, which made the few substantive parts of their response less credible and less useful. Further, they just weren't very convincing.
Regarding your "tone" -- I actually find you videos to include a lot of qualifiers and to be measured, and not reactionary or troll-ish, which is what I like about your videos/reviews.
The accent used while reading that email, however, was one of the more challenging things I've had to listen to this week 😂
Not gonna lie I had to do an accent as my ADD kicked everytime I read it in my accent.. I could barely get through it 😂
I paused the video and read the email haha. I got your back though Paul. Ur a fantastic creator. I agree with you 100%, SSL needs to prove the video wrong or move on
Paul that was brilliant! The accent was comedy genius & it was class.. Jim fae SSL seems a bit of a stickler as a genius of sound would be.. If I was SSL I'd have given you a cheeky wee analogue SSL for you to test away to your hearts content (on your records) & showing the viewer they are a company with no fear of wee coorin timerous frequencies.. Plus a new ssl would have bought me off.. Ken? Great work my brother - mon the Asties 🤘🏽😎
Well done exposing them. As a company even if they disagree 100% with a RUclipsr, they should embrace free speech and opinions. If something is off anyhow it will
be flagged in 100 other youtube videos. Shame on them.
Yup out of all the vintage drive reviews this YT video was always gonna be the target haha
This video made me a fan. There's a ton of RUclipsrs who talk music biz or review plugins, but the ones who will give you their honest opinion regardless of popularity? I can count those channels on five fingers. Keep on keepin on. New subscriber here.
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I would also like to know what analyzers the developers use… Good point Paul!! I own a lot of high end hardware, as well as licensed software plug-in versions of the same gear - the difference is usually pretty significant (obviously….). This is just my opinion of course.
Never know after this I might actually find out haha 🤓
I agree Paul, SSL should be arguing their point with data. Doing so otherwise seems fishy at best on SSL's part and doesn't help their case at all. I would however support developers ignoring requests about what tools and how they analyze hardware when modelling, that's propriety IP and shouldn't be shared where it could be used by a competitor.
You explain the converging lines of evidence between multiple objective data points and blind testing to validate your hypothesis. Professor emeritus of analytic philosophy Harry Frankfurt republished his seminal work "On Bullshit" in 2005. I would argue that he would approve of your stance. I hope you are rewarded for believing your own thinking, if this happened more often our artistic and cultural landscape would be all the richer.
I had to read this 3 times till I got what you meant haha
Great video. Glad I subscribed to this channel 👍🏼
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One important piece of evidence is Jim's admission that his hardware product produces an effect he had been unaware of. Extrapolating, what other things about his products might he not understand, or even know about?
Surely he must have known the hardware was showing harmonics in the sides. They've stated that they intended the fusion to be perfect stereo but thats not what came out due to analog tolerances which is the 'magic' of the fusion.. So I'm wrong for saying the plugin purposely doesn't sound like the hardware when he's admitting they created a perfectly digital stereo version 🙃 I give up sometimes 😂
@@PaulThird Hahah yes, he basically said that the flaw is the feature of the plugin lol
Wow! I can't believe they actually sent that email. That was distasteful as fuck!
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I’m starting to think all this plug in stuff is mostly snake oil marketing and ego. Fantastic mixes can be done with stock used correctly. The listener don’t give a shit what plugs were used as long as the song moves them, and it holds up well compared to professional mixes. What do you think?.
Perhaps for songs that are created drag and drop, sampled stuff which already sounds good, but for someone using organic mic-ed instruments, the better plugs make a huge difference🤠😃
Yeah tbh I'm using less plugins than ever before. My new single comes out on Friday and I'm pretty happy with it but more due to the production and how I managed to incorporate a lot of different elements. I really mixed the song to have a balance. No over eq'ing and way less colour than I've ever used.. But give me 3 months after release and I'll hate it 😂
@@PaulThird Paul I’m getting that way. I’m learning how to use Less. Well done with the album. Keep on having fun.
19:52 well said Paul! This pretty much states the truth. Prove Paul wrong, Jim.
2:10 I FUCKING LOST IT 😂😂😂
I even had a chuckle myself when I pieced it all together 🤣
The email wasn't bad the forum comments were insane though.why he did that is unfathomable..keep up the good work and..any chance you could do Skoda cars next...;))
Honestly I'm more annoyed that he's got everyone thinking Im still a manager in sales 🤣
I think a defense response is totally fine, and wanted - that manufacturers defend themselves and respond to false (or true) criticism. That is what we actually want. Or as I might have said on my channel "these bastards we need answers now", lol. What I mean is, that the fact that they are paying attention is great. That wasn't the case always. Barry Johns calling out Avid and UAD, Julian Krause, White Sea, little me and others. All things considered, these are small channels, not 200K subscribers, and yet large manufacturers are starting to respond and take notice. That is good. Eventually they will learn to not respond in a defensive way but engage with us about their product. Or even about product they are working on. I think our community is small and based on excitement but bad news travel fast. We understand that we all make mistakes and I think we are a forgiving community, as long as manufacturers want to be part of our community and not some overlords that see us as recipients of "product". My channel isn't nearly as good as this one in terms of analysis and detailed comparisons, but I think we are all coming together more, working in the same direction. I've raved about SSL in one video and attacked the flaws in another. Same with UAD, While YT videos and blogs been around forever, I think we are seeing a shift. Driven by the Saints of the revolution, such as Paul3rd, JayKay, Larry Bond 007 and Wite Cee. And forgive me for incorrectly spelling these names on purpose, I always wanted to see how it looks like, now that I type it out.
Hahaha.. your accent verged on Blakey from 70's sitcom "On The Buses"... "I'm gonna get you Thirdy"! 😂 I just love that you didn't capitulate to his very loaded passive aggressive threatening email. 👏
It was hard but I genuinely needed my audience to give their opinion on the email as with my aspergers I can really read stuff the wrong way. I've been stung a few times and had the piss taken out of me not that long ago so it's good to have such a big soundboard 🤓
You do amazing work. Thanks for making this video, very insightful.
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Look, SSL has been king of the hill for 4 decades. After Neve making some horrible creative decisions from the 80s onwards SSL was hands down the industry standard. But now with competition in the mid format console being so fierce and secondly coming to the proprietary plug-in market c late they are feeling the heat for the first time, possibly in their company history. Finally they are used to people being v respectful toward them.
Let’s go for a couple of beers, Paul.
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Well done Paul, nice work.
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@@PaulThird there are few things more impressive and alpha than going up against a powerful organisation on principle, let alone having them adapt their behaviours and apologise. That shows you have character, brains and balls, unlike the clown who wrote to you.
Well done for standing up to Jim@SSL, the big bully! You showed their plugin doesn’t sound/measure like the hardware. Simples! They should thank you and work on improving their plugin code. Jim@SSL’s behaviour sadly reflects badly on him and the reputation of a company held in high regard by many in the industry. Keep up the great work. And I can’t wait for your review of the new SSL Native Channel Strip 2 & Bus Compressor 2. 😊🙏🏽
I thought you handled that really well Paul. Thank you for keeping it as “PC” as you did.
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Watching this again... They really shouldn't let him interact with the public at all ....
He said he'd be taking a break from posting on GS. Dunno how long that lasted haha
Never apologise, bad optics for SSL. Bottom line is it does not sound like an SSL fusion.
I agree 🤓
Imagine having such a confrontation with Waves. You'd have to pay for an insulting and condescending email by them in the first place, and then subscribe to WUP for any further update on the argument.
And still send you 15 sales emails a day 🤣
I applaud you bro, you said it boldly without hesitation👏👏👏👏👏
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I've got that t-shirt!
Great channel
I was a big lyle and Scott fan when it made its resurgence like 10-12 years ago haha
I worked in the music industry as a marketing director and I can tell you that it was common to tell the press "we will not continue our ads in your magazine when you publish a negative product review again." Nowadays the big companies have a problem: they can't control social media.
I would look for a good lawyer. I can imagine that there are some other serious RUclips channels that face the same problem. The freedom of press is an invaluable human right in democracies.
Yeah I think cause I don't need devs to give me plugins to make videos or make a living via paid videos and stuff I have the luxury of giving my own opinion and deciding when or if I make a video which I imagine to be pretty concerning for many developers as they have zero control over what I put out
This is the first time I've faced this level of scrutiny though but I'm glad it turned out OK in the end
I'm still to recieve a direct apology so it looks like it was only for the benefit of the gearspace community to calm the situation down
@@PaulThird SSL has to save their brand for the next generations. There will be a time when young producers will not know who ssl is. We are living in this transition period from hardware to software. It's a fact. The same is true in other industries. They are afraid of a small RUclipsr who dares to criticize the untouchable SSL brand. Get yourself an islay single malt and smile.
You’re doing great! What if SSL would hire you to help them come closer to the hardware instead and they could actually use that to market the product. As you say. No developer show you these measurements and proofing the accuracy between the hardware and the software. Imagine the impact if a developer would start to show how to measure and compare to the hardware… the entire market would have to follow and refurbish most of the plugins.
That's what my hope for the future is. Nothing to do with me. Just more transparency in plugin marketing
@@PaulThird with stronger and stronger CPU’s it must become easier to actually simulate an analog circuitry.
I think gsatpro showed that the variance that gives that 'magic' could have been replicated. PA even has TMT with differing L+R.. It can be done
Would've taken SSL less time to demonstrate audibly and visually how you were wrong. But instead they hope to smear word poo all over the walls with a wall of text. SSL get your egos in check. You're a business. We're your customers. We don't care for pettiness we just want to get what we pay for.
For the longest time audio companies had control over different publications because these publications make minimum $1,000 per advertisement. So if a magazine or website wrote a negative review guess what? No more expensive ad revenue!
But because now there are so many audio engineering RUclips channels that have a big reach and because of companies like mix analog and access analog we can compare hardware to software. Not just people who can afford expensive equipment but basically anyone who has an extra $20 to throw around can do it.
And they're not happy about that. They're not happy that the "little people" are uncontrollable. I'm honestly shocked by SSL's behavior because they are one of the companies I respect. I'm glad to read that Jim apologized but the damage to the company's reputation has been done.
Keep going Paul! You have my full support!
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The response of the company showed you that you were absolutely right!
I like your review on tools I think its always fair and realistic. SSL Native really liked that bundle'' Not so much the fusion tool. But the channel strip, Bus, Drums strip, Verb, All them other tools are really good. Got most of them practically free.
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It's about time, Someone who's sincere about music. And tells it like it is!!
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What a shameful unprofessional behavour from SSL. They´re blowing this up, like this is fucked up! They´re using the same tools just in expensive hardware boxes!
Thanks for the vids on this Paul.
Clearly the quality of SSL software is no match for their hardware.
The behaviour of their rep was astonishing. You hit a nerve...
Issuing veiled threats, condescending, passive-aggressive, contemptuous and patronising.
Wow. You, found-them-out.
SSL just fix your broken plugin (or lower the silly price).
Keep up the good work!
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*This is the price you have to pay as an influencer.*
Personally, I like your videos and I am not bothered if you have an "official legitimation" (as an audio engineer) or not and I also always consider your recommenadations!
What I miss is technical tips how to do something in mixing for instance. Like Kush Audio guy, who explains how to do this or that.
That's why i leave it to these guys 🤓
Good on ya mate. Well handled.
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Perfect video.... Also, bye bye to my plans on buying SSL plugins - I disliked the response and the way the entire situation was handled by SSL reps.