$50 Pentacon vs. $1400 Sigma 135mm lens for DEEP SKY ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY - vintage lens vs modern
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- I shot the Cygnus constellation with a $1400 Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM ART lens and a vintage Pentacon 135mm f/2.8 (with 15 aperture blades!) and here is how the image compares. Vintage lenses on mirrorless cameras are cool, fun and can give you a unique look but the image quality is not gonna be great especially compares with modern expensive glass. I show a side by side comparison of how these two lenses stack up against each other for astrophotography.
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Хобби
What do you think about the macro sequences to showcase the lenses’ external features? 😃
I can get the Pentacon for $20 including shipping, this video sealed the deal for me. I can get a better lens when my processing and shooting skills justify it. Thanks a lot for making this comparison, there's a lot of talk about vintage lenses but really not a lot actual results, this is valuable knowledge.
The Pentacon made me remember in the 1980's when I would pickup some magazine about Space, Sci-Fi, National Geographic, or something in that era, I dig it
Hi, the chromatic aberration can be easily removed by just one f step down and that will solve the problem.
I know that the image quality is not gonna get better but for the lens price, you get a fair picture.
I have a Takumar Pentax 135mm F2.5 and shot the north America nebula and the quality is not so bad if you step down one step, but then you have to track for a longer time (that is the price you pay if you want a cheaper option).
I bought a Super-Takumar 135mm F3.5 . A star test I saw on CloudyNights showed way less blue halos and aberrations than the Pentacon but it does benefit from being stopped down to reduce star bloat and coma. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but at $70 or so for my copy, seems like a pretty good deal. I'm putting together a budget setup along with my EvoGuide!
Best of luck and clear skies! Yeah, stopping down should help for sure
I have old USSR Tair-11a 135/2.8, I think it deserves to be given a chance.
After seeing this video I got me a Vibrator 200mm f3.5. I attached it to my filter wheel and a Zwo 294mm camera. I think that would help with the CA. Going to try more vintage lens so wish me luck.
I use mostly vintage lenses, I don't really care for the stars to be perfectly round as my focus is either the galaxy or the nebula. Most people remove the stars anyways and the chromatic abberation can also be removed to a certain point. Vintage lenses can save you a ton of money. Yes, newer lenses are usually better but that's up to each person's budget and if they really want to spend. Vintage glass is a good starting point to experiment with various photography areas.
Just ordered a rokinon 135mm. I'm still waiting for it.
I suspect that the difference in image brightness at the same f stop arises in a major part from the anti reflection coatings on the lenses (combined to a lesser extent with optical glass quality and number of elements). Even a relatively small improvement in modern coatings is amplified by the large number of optical elements/surfaces in the lenses.
Might be, might be!
Interesting video, but I think it would have been more useful to compare images with the two lenses at their best settings. Instead of doing a direct like for like comparison between them, how about showing what a $50 lens CAN do, instead of showing that it's not as good at a fast setting as a lens 30 times the price?
I would strongly suspect that much of the aberration from the Pentacon lens would be mitigated if you dropped it a stop to f4. Obviously, it would require longer exposures to get the same amount of light, but I'm fairly sure a lot of people out there (including me) could far more easily find an extra couple of hours of their time, maybe even splitting time over different nights, than they could find an extra $1350.
Only yesterday, I bought a Tokina 135mm f2.8 for £20, so I'm about to find out for myself ;)
But how did it work max?
Absolutely on point with your comment since I expect the Sigma to have lots of CA on F1.8, like my Sigma 50-100 does and my primes also do, which is why I went to take Astro pictures at F2.8. I’d also love to see the vintage lense performance at its best aperture size. Besides that, there is a lot more technical development in the modern lenses, which leads to a sharper image and more light collected - that was well presented in the video with a stunning view of the nebula.
Don't get me wrong, the image taken with the Sigma looks amazing, but the one taken with the old lens has a charm to it, very spacy looking. Although it also looks like the kind of thing that gets really annoying really quick...
Difference in picture brightness between Pentacon and Sigma is mainly due to difference in diameter of front lens, which is collecting the light. Unobstructed dimeter of front element is Sigma lens is about 72mm and Pentacon lens around 50mm. That means that Sigma lens surface area of the front element (which collects the light) is almost twice as much as Pentacon lens. And that means that Sigma lens can harvest almost double amount of photons in the same time when compared to Pentacon - hence difference of almost one f stop.
No. It is the difference in lens coatings. Different front lens diameter has nothing to do with this. That is the difference caused by the fact that one lens is F1.8 and other F2.8.
@@xmeda Both pictures were shot at f/2.8 and coating only amounts for max. few percent of difference in light (due to reduced reflection and therefore better transmittance), so you woul not even notice influence of coatings on brightness. The reason for brighter picture shot with the same settings is larger light gathering power of Sigma lens due to its larger front lens diameter.
I have the pentacon 135 f2.8 and yes wide open it's useless for astro, the CA and sharpness improves somewhere after f4. This is not such an issue for portraits and can still get beautiful shots at f2.8. It'd interesting to see how close could pentacon get to wide open sigma at the cost of longer exposure or higher iso.
I just shot on an oshiro 135mm f2.8 and it worked awesome!! Sharp stars edge to edge at f.4. . Picked it up for under 200$
That’s great. Every lens is different so you may have found quite a gem. Altough for twice as that you can easily get a second-hand Samyang 135mm f/2 😉
@@kamilkp I had that lens in mind when buying the oshiro lens.
Didn't get for budget purposes.
Black Friday sales are around the corner and I was thinking maybe my 1st small refractor like redcat 51 or the radian raptor 61 for the sake of more value, a little more focal length and for damn near the same price as the rokinon f.2 .
Also, More bang for my buck with a doublet apocromatic design, still wide field, light weight, able to fit my Skywatcher star adventurer 2i and will introduce me into telescopes over always using camera lenses. Clear skies.
P.S. I absolutely love all your videos. Very detailed education and cinematic content. Thanks for putting in the work.
I'm not an Astro Photographer, but i think if you stop down the pentacon to F4, you should get much better results.
Cracking video Kamil, I have the 135mm Pentacom Super takumar but it is an M42 mount getting infinity focus on either my Canon 600d or 7d is not easy, as yet not used it for astro due to weather.
Mine is M42 as well and getting it to focus is not a problem on my EOS R via RF-EF and EF-M42 adapter
@@kamilkp I have found a mod online to adjust the lens beyond the infinity mark, at my risk I only paid £25 for it so I may do it, but as a lens for portrait it superb value for money, but that's not the reason why I bought it :)
your video encouraged me to buy this lens and I did as a beginner in astrophotography. After buying it, I'm reading a lot about the infinity focus problem when being used with a Nikon camera body unless you use an M42 adapter with a corrective lens which will no doubt degrade the image quality of the lens. My question is, which camera did you use your lens on for this project and did you have to use an adapter with a corrective lens?
I'm in the same situation. The trouble with infinite focus only affects Nikon DSLR cameras, mirrorless cameras should be safe. I just bought such adapter, I'm waiting for a clear night to test it.
Fajniejsza czołówka.
I use this Sigma for astrophotography, no color aberration and fringe, no distortion, i have no complain, best lens i have, i would not trade it for another 135mm. Is simply perfect. Easy to focus. My settings are 1 sec exposure, / 1.8 to 2.8, the best sharpness is at 2.8...ISO 1000 cause i shoot with a Nikon D850 and is the best sensor ISO signal for astrophotography in my tests, considerating my camera. Is a very heavy lens but 1400$ can be too much money, but you can use it for portrait, landscapes, anything. Very good performance. Fast auto-focus. Again, my best lens. Nobody will be sad by having this, only if you do not use it. But i just know one 135mm that can be sometimes better than this Sigma, and is a Zeiss that cost 4000$ or something like that, do not remenber well.
I agree, it’s an absolute beast. One of the best performing lens in benchmarks ever!
Neat!
Is it more important to keep the focal length long or aperture wider? For example, would It be better to use a 135mm f2.8 or a 200mm f4? I also have teleconverters which can double the length of these, but I think that also halves the aperture e.g. the 200mm f4 becomes a 400mm f8 (ish). Thanks.
More important for what? What are you trying to achieve?
@@kamilkp I am new to astro photography so I am open to it all. I was thinking deep sky photography as that is what this video is for. But I would love (more) to take photos of planets in our solar system, if possible. I have only ever taken a couple of shots of the moon in the past.
For planetary imaging you need as long focal length as possible even at the cost of aperture. So you can make use of those extenders even
@@kamilkp thanks. I think I would need a telescope for planets so will try galaxies/nebula instead.
@@blood_n_guts_murphy The problem is, that with longer lenses you'll reach other kind of serious problems.
A) Good quality lenses above 300mm are VERY expensive even if they are old. 600mm lenses are brutal.
B) With longer lenses the resolution is also needed and while making high resolving 50mm lens is quite easy, making hi-res 300 or 600mm lens is way more problematic and older long lenses tend to be rather weak with low resolution.
C) The longer the lens is, the more significant is any movement and if your lens is dark, you will need long exposures or multi-exposures stitched together. So you will need heavy duty tripod or also mechanism which turns the tripod head according to Earth rotation. With 10s exposure on 300mm lens you'll see very significant star trails without compensation. Or you can use Pentax camera with Astrotracer - that helps a bit, because it compensates the movement by sensor movement. After calibration of course.
Next time you might close the aperture a little more to check the CA
Watch the price go up for the Pentacon. lol. Good review.
Slightly unrelated question...what PA method do you use for your SW SA (software/manual)?
Thanks!
Manual. I’m eyeing the PoleMaster but this stuff is quite expensive 😕
@@kamilkp Thanks. I ask because I've been having star trails no matter how good (I think) I am polar aligned with my SA. Waiting for clear skies to try NINA 3 point polar alignment in manual mode and see how that goes. Maybe you can do a video on that if you want to try it out. Its free. :)
I’ll check it out!
you are right now they are twice the price on the average around $100 for a descent lens.
which is better for the astro sigma 135 f1.8 or the canon 70-200 f2.8?
Sigma 135 f/1.8 is an absolute beast. One of the highest scoring lenses in benchmarks for resolution sharpness and more. I’d choose that one for sure!
@@kamilkp thank you Kamil
This isn't really an apples to apples comparison. The Sigma is stopped down, whereas the Pentacon is not. On most lenses aberration and vignetting are reduced when stopping down. A fairer comparison would be to shoot both wide open but shoot at a shorter exposure on the Sigma. That said, I doubt the conclusion would be much different. Modern lenses are more robust. They need to be. Modern sensors are capable of capturing much more detail than film.
I would want my night sky to look darker anyway lol
Thanks for this video but you'd better mention that M42 lens can be a nightmare on Nikon DSLR cameras (not on Nikon mirrorless cameras) as they completely lose the focus to infinite, which is what we need in astrophotography. No infinite focus, no astrophotography with vintage lenses. Period. The only solutions are:
1) "hacking" the lens by unmounting it (job for tinkering experts / do not try this at home)
2) Using an adapter provided of an additional lens (further loss of image quality)
This is a trouble affecting Nikon DSLR cameras only, Nikon mirrorless cameras are safe for vintage M42 lenses.
Comparing these two doesn't make much sense, the difference in image quality will always be there, because the quality of the glass is so different
Yeah I don’t think anybody could expect there to be not much difference. It’s more of a fun experiment and proof that focal length and maximum apetrure is not everything when it comes to lenses 😉
Pentacon more true
So you stop modern F1.8 lenst to F2.8 and compare with old F2.8 lens with aperture wide open? Cmon. Close both to F5.6 and do it again. And yes of course Pentacon 135/2.8 has a lot of CA and PF when aperture is wide open. Especially on digital sensor. On film these issues are not that pronounced, because film is able to absorb light from worse angles than sensors. And Pentacon 135/2.8 with 15 blade always round aperture was mainly created for portrait work and smooth bokeh. Similar is his larger brother Pentacon 200/4 also with 15 blade aperture. Again soft wide open, but if you need to capture distand landscape, you will close it to F8-F11 anyway and then it is has very nice resolution (for that era).