heatless toner transfer for PCB etch--Impatient version

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 21 дек 2024

Комментарии • 106

  • @E4E
    @E4E 11 месяцев назад +1

    Excellent, best results I've had and I've tried them all.
    I put mine through a cheap GBC laminator afterwards and worked 99% perfect. Cheers!

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  11 месяцев назад +1

      yeah, i eventually went to using a laminator as well- it really makes the process much faster.

  • @shashankparab
    @shashankparab 4 года назад +6

    Great work. TBH with a thin glossy magazine page, It will take only 5-7 minutes to make this size of PCB. Here is how i do it consistently everytime.
    1) Remove the Toner cartridge, shake it vigorously and replace it. then print
    2) Heat the iron to just below the "wool" setting. temperature around 125-135 degree C works best.
    3) Heat the PCB using Iron for 30 seconds.
    4) Put the artwork on PCB.
    5) Put a folded paper towel on PCB and keep the Iron on it for a minute.
    6) Spend 2 minutes moving the Iron's sides here and there and all corners applying pressure thoroughly.
    7) let the PCB cool down on its own. don't rush it . If we put the PCB under water while it's hot, the copper shrinks faster than the transferred toner and the toner cracks.
    8) Once cool, dip the PCB in water until you see the artwork through damp paper.

  • @edgwatergirl4220
    @edgwatergirl4220 8 лет назад +3

    YOU ARE TALENTED. THIS METHOD IS SO SIMPLE, YET EFFECTIVE.

  • @ihtsarl9115
    @ihtsarl9115 2 года назад +1

    Thank you again I will be grateful if you can explain more about the paper you printed your pcb on, and what type of printer you used?

  • @ihtsarl9115
    @ihtsarl9115 2 года назад

    Thank you for this video I have been using the laser printer on the yellow paper and the iron heat for 3 minutes with 8: 10 results but I will try your method which looks good.

  • @sle118
    @sle118 7 лет назад +1

    I think this technique addresses the toner porosity problem that creates imperfections during the acid bath; it seems to be creating a thicker barrier (of lacquer) between the copper and the toner. Can anyone confirm? Anyhow, this is brilliant and I'll try it on my next prototype.

  • @ZafodB3
    @ZafodB3 2 года назад

    Murriatic Acid is Hydrochloric Acid. Fisher sells, for the industrial laboratory a 12N (12 times Normal) concentrated solution that will smoke/fume when opened and should be used under a hood (your breathing chlorine vapor) since it will burn your sinuses. My question is do any of these home-store/hardware store bought murriatics state a concentration either as a percent solution or normality on the bottle? And remember… “Acid to Wata like you oughta”!

  • @leebarnes655
    @leebarnes655 Год назад

    Muratic acid has some unusual properties in that it can escape thru the side of the plastic jug you bought it in to rust any iron nearby. I won't keep it inside anymore for this very reason. What I do have is kept outside 24/7 so that the fumes escaping do just that without throwing a layer of rust onto nearby objects. I hate it when "they" change their formulations without any notice, black flag flying insect spray (blue can) did this and while it still works aces, it tends to shoot a stream clear across the room when you wanted a fog. So after years of keeping a stash of the "good" nozzles which didn't help at all, I did something remarkable, I shook it. Ya know just like it says to on every spray can for the past 50 years.

  • @kostix777
    @kostix777 8 лет назад +2

    Brilliant! Man, you're a genius! Thank you!

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  8 лет назад +2

      +Konstantin T: you bet! I just never could get the hang of it the other way, so I stumbled onto this.

    • @porterkylo8604
      @porterkylo8604 3 года назад

      instablaster.

  • @jasonzdora
    @jasonzdora 7 лет назад +2

    Thanks, Ed! I tried this with mixed results and I had a question or two. I have the exact ingredients in your video (rustoleum spray lacquer, acetone, denatured alcohol).
    When I rub the alcohol to remove the lacquer from the board, some of the toner comes off with it, making the solid black areas kind of spotty and the traces weak. It kind of makes sense, since the lacquer is "under" the toner. I tried waiting a little longer before using the alcohol but that made the lacquer cure and the PCB didnt dissolve at all in the acid (thin layer of lacquer covered the surface).
    Any advice on timing or method would be greatly appreciated!!
    Thanks!!

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад +1

      Use the alcohol immediately after doing the transfer and--this is the key-- don't use any pressure when wiping the lacquer off. Use lots of alcohol and just gently wipe rather than rub. If you have these exact ingredients, it should wipe right off if you use enough alcohol. If you get a stubborn area, just take a very small screwdriver or similar and scrape in just that small area.
      I usually go back and review the transfer under a magnifying glass and use an ultra fine tip paint pen to fill in any spotty areas in the ground plane or touch up a trace or pad.

  • @julianfreto1666
    @julianfreto1666 3 года назад

    "coca cola thats just product placement if they need enforcement..." 😂

  • @sinyuevan9539
    @sinyuevan9539 8 лет назад +1

    If you have to work with these tiny elements, such as PCB, i recommend you guys a HDMI digital microscope ADSM201.

  • @tcurdt
    @tcurdt 7 лет назад

    This looks really easy when you are doing it. But when I use alcohol to remove the white paint I need to press too hard to clean all the small details - which then also rubs off the toner.

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад +1

      Torsten Curdt the secret is to use lots of alcohol and very little pressure.

    • @tcurdt
      @tcurdt 7 лет назад

      I tried again. Still not working for me. I've completely immersed the thing in ethanol for a few minutes. The lacquer did not even start to dissolve, nor did the force needed to clean the copper became less. Maybe the lacquer I am using is wrong? But then the question is - what should it be else?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      I think you just have some acrylic/water based lacquer. I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing, but I think several people have had the same trouble. make sure the can says to clean up with mineral spirits or some other similar solvent rather than water.

    • @tcurdt
      @tcurdt 7 лет назад

      Unfortunately it doesn't say on the can. It's a 385836 white dupli color - apparently meant to be used on cars. www.motipdupli.com/en/products/dupli-color/mobility/cars-rallye-sprays/ipg-1089/tm-1089.html It says "nitro-combi" based and "Limited resistance against petrol"

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      i think you probably need to look for a different lacquer. I've used Deft and Rustoleum and Krylon lacquers with good result.

  • @sto2779
    @sto2779 4 года назад

    doesn't applying acetone to the copper and toner ink makes the toner ink stick to the copper?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  4 года назад

      it actually will completely melt the toner. you can make a diluted solution of acetone and isopropyl and transfer that way. there is a tutorial on here about doing it that way by someone else.

  • @souvicknaskar4538
    @souvicknaskar4538 3 года назад

    Can I use laser printer to print the pcb on glossy paper? Or should I use laser printer for this work?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  3 года назад

      Not exactly sure of the question. You definitely need to use a laser printer-- ink jet won't work. I use either pcb transfer paper available from Amazon, or the glossy side of shipping label backing paper. Does that answer your question?

  • @WroughtIronEffects
    @WroughtIronEffects  6 лет назад +3

    UPDATE: apparently Rustoleum has changed the formulation of their lacquer and it no longer dissolves in alcohol!!! The last 2 cans i bought have been extremely difficult to work with, which might explain some of the difficulty some of you were having duplicating my results. I will update further with a substitute transfer base soon. Thanks!
    Ed

    • @robertvernon2186
      @robertvernon2186 6 лет назад

      4 months ago you promised an update. Where is it?

    • @jpm83
      @jpm83 5 лет назад

      Shellac will dissolve in alcohol you only would need to add pigment to it for this method. And i'm not sure if that toner would stick to it.

  • @bjl1000
    @bjl1000 7 лет назад +1

    I just got the iron on method to work great. I print on the shiney side of a transparency. clean the board, iron it on, peel it off then do it again. I have two layers of toner. Its easy to align the patterns since you can see through it. It Works perfect, and I have a brother printer, with toner from InkOwl.

    • @jerrywhidby5259
      @jerrywhidby5259 7 лет назад +1

      Please upload a video of this. I would love to see this method in action.

    • @adiis2009
      @adiis2009 4 года назад

      yes, I do that.. the film transparency print with HP1102 with high resolution 1200.. put on the pcb.. then iron about 1 minute... 99% the tonner on film move to pcb

  • @kimballwiggins3976
    @kimballwiggins3976 8 лет назад +10

    There is another video of a dude using 8 parts Alcohol and 3 parts acetone and it's a lot easier looking then this. Anyway better then the ironing method!

    • @Mike-ff7ib
      @Mike-ff7ib 8 лет назад

      Kimball Wiggins I tried the 8 part alcohol and 3 part acetone with no luck. I even tried straight acetone using his methods and still no transfer.

    • @khueha5566
      @khueha5566 7 лет назад

      Botwire You can try Acrylic instead Axetone

  • @0MoTheG
    @0MoTheG 8 лет назад +1

    I was amazed by how easily the lacquer came off. Is that only because it was fresh?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад +1

      it will come off pretty well with alcohol even after quite a while. I've been running mine through a laminator lately after doing the lacquer layer and it still wioes right off with denatured alcohol.

  • @mathewmcgill6266
    @mathewmcgill6266 7 лет назад +1

    What about water dissolving paper?
    How about pressing the paper and board in a vase?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      both of those sound like interesting ideas, @Matthew McGill! Give it a shot!

  • @nguyenhainam458
    @nguyenhainam458 7 лет назад

    Its acrylic lacquer ? I using spray lacquer but cant using alcohol to remove paint

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      It has to say "lacquer" on the can. If it's enamel, this probably won't work. It should not be acrylic based.

  • @Mike-ff7ib
    @Mike-ff7ib 8 лет назад +2

    i have a samsung laser printer and i am having a hard time getting a good transfer. i have 7mil glossy inkjet photo paper and was wondering if you were using the same type of paper. i have not tried using laqour yet but it looks like something to try. Does the laqour need to be fully dry or just dry to the touch?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      hey Botwire, sorry for the delayed response. technical difficulties. Anyway, I print onto the backing paper from shipping labels. You remove the label and print right onto the glossy side of the backing paper (see comment below for printer help). These work way better than any others I've tried.
      www.amazon.com/Best-Print-200-Half-Sheet/dp/B0069RY9BY
      Spray the lacquer, then blow it dry just for a few seconds till there's a film over it. Then carefully set the transfer onto it and start pressing and rubbing.

    • @bjl1000
      @bjl1000 7 лет назад

      Botwire ­ try transparencies and iron on two layers of toner,

  • @zngrrr
    @zngrrr 3 месяца назад

    Whats this spray.. is it normal paint spray?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  2 месяца назад

      It's "lacquer" and due to new formulations, you probably need to use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol to dissolve it.

  • @Berghiker
    @Berghiker 4 года назад

    Why the laquer? What does that do?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  4 года назад

      the lacquer provides a transfer medium. It gives the toner something to stick to that's soft. Kind of like glue. Other mediums may work, too. But Lacquer is the one that I have found that can be easily removed with a solvent (91% isopropyl) that doesn't affect the toner.

  • @yatzecyatzec
    @yatzecyatzec 5 лет назад

    Hi, please give me exactly what varnish you use under the toner? Is it a water or solvent based varnish?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  5 лет назад

      Sorry for the late reply. I use solvent based lacquer. If you use isopropyll alcohol to dissolve it, most any solvent based lacquer i have tried has worked.

  • @kampkrieger
    @kampkrieger 6 лет назад +1

    when do you actually use acetone?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  6 лет назад

      the acetone is just for cleaning off the toner after you're done etching or if you mess up and need to start over.

  • @Galova
    @Galova 4 года назад

    What kind of laquer is that? I mean is it acrylic or something?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  4 года назад

      I can't remember exactly what lacquer that was, but I still do it this way, and any lacquer I have worked has tried as long as you use 91% Isopropyl alcohol as the solvent-- NOT Denatured alcohol like in this video.

    • @Galova
      @Galova 4 года назад

      @@WroughtIronEffects Well I just have some laquer but it reacts to acetone. Not so much as the toner, but it does

  • @pir869
    @pir869 6 лет назад

    you can buy the shiny waxy paper without buying the labels too,and is so much more cost effective.

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  6 лет назад +1

      I have tried PCB transfer paper (more expensive, worse results), parchment paper (has to be cut to size to go through a printer and is so thin some printers can't grab it) and freezer paper (still have to cut it in both dimensions, mixed results for transfer). None of them has worked as good as the label backing and the labels are about $10/100 sheets.
      If you have a source for 8.5x11 sheets of shiny wax paper that's less than 10 cents a sheet, I'd love to try it.

    • @pir869
      @pir869 6 лет назад +1

      personally,i'm moving towards getting away from any transfer method,by building my own cnc for laser etching and milling pcb track,honestly fed up messing with this whole setup,ferric chloride is too bloody messy,and i have the proper etch tanks,your wax paper is far stiffer than the yellow sheet i have been using,but it's still a pain in the arse,whether ironing it or some other tedious heating method,the only saving grace is that if the transfer toner screws up the copper clad board is still usable for a repeat of the process ,i bought my transfer sheet from china post free,150 sheets for about £2 or £3 sterling(uk),no where lese could the stuff be so cheap,but again the gauge is a factor,also i have seen the actual vinyl being cut with a cnc vinyl cutter for pcb trace resist,a whole piece is stuck on the board first then cut and weeded out,might have been a laser cut now i think of it,anyway,asap i'm going cnc,bluetooth connected to my workshop and watch via web cam,while i do other stuff at my cosy indoor bench,as it should be.
      Enjoyed the vid,just thought the vinyl a bit wastefull,atb.

  • @evergriven7402
    @evergriven7402 7 лет назад

    Thank you for your Insights and this video

  • @robertvernon2186
    @robertvernon2186 6 лет назад

    I can't get the white to come off without the black coming off too.

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  6 лет назад

      Hey Robert, I've been having trouble with the new formulations of Lacquer as well. Isopropyl works better than Denatured alcohol for me, but I've been using an older can of lacquer, apparently from before they changed the formulation. If I find a good substitute, I'll post it here.

    • @robertvernon2186
      @robertvernon2186 6 лет назад

      I just tried the alcohol/acetone mix method ruclips.net/video/HBIxvwZ_0og/видео.html. One of the comments said use Regular Nail Polish Remover. Worked 4 me. I suggest you try that.

  • @RuiSjm
    @RuiSjm 8 лет назад +1

    pelos vistos basta ter acetona, quase todos tem!

  • @Koodie2
    @Koodie2 7 лет назад +1

    I like how the coke is between all the chemicals :) dont get confused!

  • @JohnSmith-li3wv
    @JohnSmith-li3wv 7 лет назад

    'It's not smoke, it's toxic vapor' ... lol ... awesome vid!? Can this method be used with a glossy paper or even just standard bond or will the tiner not 'release!?' Also, can clear lacquer or shellac even work!?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      Hey John, you *can* use glossy photo paper, but it won't work nearly as easily. probably the second best thing I've used is freezer paper. glossy photo paper was pretty frustrating to me. clear lacquer will work, it's just a little harder to see that you've got it all off. Not sure about shellac, but i would guess it might.

  • @johnfrankforther8162
    @johnfrankforther8162 7 лет назад

    I have been wanting to do my own pcb's and have watched many, many videos and so far... Yours seems to be the easiest to get the towner on to the board. I have tried the iron with no success. Do you have a way to get a two sided board to work with your methods as far as alignments? Great video!!

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад +1

      Hey john, I haven't done any two sided boards. If I were going to do it, I would probably locate a hole in each corner of the layout, then measure very carefully and pre-drill those holes into the copper-clad board. then hold it up to the light as you lay your transfer on to get it to line up exactly with the holes. Then do the same with the top side transfer. I line up the slikscreen layer for the top of my boards kind of in this fashion. I am usually off by just a little bit, but then again I'm not being super careful because being off just a hair on silkscreen layer isn't a problem.

  • @velcroman11
    @velcroman11 7 лет назад

    What about the paint under the toner?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      velcroman11 the paint under the toner will resist the etchant, so it actually kind of reinforces the resist.

  • @LorriCarnevale
    @LorriCarnevale 7 лет назад +1

    can this be done on metal?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      Lorri Carnevale it sure can. there's a video on my channel doing it with clear lacquer onto an aluminum plate.

  • @rimmersbryggeri
    @rimmersbryggeri 8 лет назад +1

    aliphatic or achrylic spray paint?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      this is what I use. ANything acrylic is not going to work well with this method.
      www.amazon.com/Deft-Interior-Semi-Gloss-12-25-Ounce-Aerosol/dp/B000ZYWE00/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1486872254&sr=1-7&keywords=lacquer+spray

    • @gelenkutum
      @gelenkutum 7 лет назад

      California Proposition 65 Warning: WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and/or birth defects or other reproductive harm.
      www.walmart.com/ip/Deft-Interior-Spray-Lacquer-Clear-Wood-Finish/21079281
      In case, you do not know.

    • @juliusvalentinas
      @juliusvalentinas 6 лет назад

      here is msds www.highlandwoodworking.com/msds/Deft-semi-gloss-brushing-lacquer.pdf
      There is no acetone in you spray that's why it works. You can use hair spray I think it should work just as good. And that's common product.

  • @RuiSjm
    @RuiSjm 8 лет назад

    thanks a lot for the vídeo, what is that Paint? i cant find it in Portugal... do you know other translate for what " lacquer Paint" is? thanks a lot

    • @bergweg
      @bergweg 8 лет назад

      same thing here, I don't know what the analog would be in Italy. I wonder if regular "graffiti" acrylic spray paint would work?

    • @bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321
      @bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321 8 лет назад

      laca acrílica p madeiras.

    • @RuiSjm
      @RuiSjm 8 лет назад

      I will try!! Thanks

    • @bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321
      @bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321 8 лет назад

      Rui Duarte
      olhe q achei no site aki.pt
      Spray acrílico branco brilhante 9010
      sendo barato, vale a provar

  • @Dad-ij2qy
    @Dad-ij2qy 8 лет назад

    Nice job. Thank you for posting.
    Do you know of a way to transfer a component outline/lettering (for example "R1 10k")
    onto the etched PCB with the white spray lacquer, so that the lettering is white? Am guessing you would need to make some kind of stencil, but I don't know what you'd use to make small letters legible.

    • @edchew7770
      @edchew7770 8 лет назад

      Hey Allan, Sorry I just now saw this. I DO transfer the silkscreen layer onto the other side of the PCB using clear lacquer. It works nicely. If I can find the video I made of that, I'll post it.

    • @edchew7770
      @edchew7770 8 лет назад

      Oh, but that won't make the lettering white. Hmmm...

    • @roidroid
      @roidroid 8 лет назад

      Sounds like you just need a way of removing the (black) toner layer afterwards, in a way that doesn't also remove the (white) underlying lacquer layer. Have you tried a water soaked kitchen scouring pad?
      I'd recommend leaving it to dry a while before you do this final step, so the lacquer layer can harden as much as possible.

    • @ta5fa
      @ta5fa 5 лет назад

      @@edchew7770 have you got another video ?

  • @k3dydxing708
    @k3dydxing708 8 лет назад

    Great job Ed. I ordered the label paper on amazon. What side are you printing on? The paper is not glossy and although it seems I have the same exact paper, it looks like yours is a bit glossy?

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      Hey sorry for the delay, I got cut off from this account for a while. for this to work, you need to remove the labels from the backing paper, then print onto the *glossy* side of the backing paper. Some toners won't stick to it very well. What helps for me is to set the printer to the thickest paper setting (or the Card Stock setting) and print 4 or 5 blank sheets of paper to warm the printer up. Then i print onto the backing paper.

  • @bryanjcera
    @bryanjcera 8 лет назад +1

    This is fucking awesome. Thank you so much for sharing!

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  8 лет назад

      +Bryan Cera: no problem man! It takes a little practice, but once you get the hang of it it's a real time saver.

  • @SKpetter
    @SKpetter 8 лет назад

    Hi Ed!
    It´s small risk cola between chemicals! Or not?
    :-)))

    • @WroughtIronEffects
      @WroughtIronEffects  7 лет назад

      I don't think there is much risk with these chemicals other than you need to use them in a well-ventilated area.

  • @roidroid
    @roidroid 8 лет назад +1

    I'm amazed the toner doesn't rub off. I wonder if the solvents in the lacquer are "curing" it somehow.
    ruclips.net/video/5FWUul62irY/видео.htmlm45s This guy fuses toner to copper by putting it in an acetone vapour bath, could be related.

  • @MrToni99
    @MrToni99 8 лет назад

    Fantastic good...thanks so lot

  • @azzym8794
    @azzym8794 7 лет назад

    *Clean water will probably work too.*
    I like that!
    Why the heck this complex method? I just print on Teflon coated paper and iron it down to copperclad? This is crazy.

    • @johnvanderpol9059
      @johnvanderpol9059 6 лет назад

      Teflon and some transfer papers are too static charged and give a poor photo copy on the film,if you can kill the static most baking papers will also work

  • @ventureelect
    @ventureelect 7 лет назад +1

    I use a iron set to medium heat. then throw the board in hot water, it is way faster than this method.

  • @johanhansson4574
    @johanhansson4574 5 лет назад +1

    Or why not just use photoresist.....

  • @Penfold8
    @Penfold8 4 года назад

    There is heat from you finger rubbing though.

  • @cedricapacer9514
    @cedricapacer9514 7 лет назад

    I do not know that Freddie Roach is working on PCB.. LoL

  • @BETA21ML
    @BETA21ML 4 года назад

    Poor lighting for the video

  • @emilee172
    @emilee172 5 лет назад

    I Have SEEN Much Better, sorry