So far I've enjoyed all the video's that I have viewed on this channel. I also am one of those that is almost petrified by the thought of making my own circuit boards. Thanks for giving me the inspiration too give it a try.
You are awesome! Look at the perfectly centered blueprint. Highly developed sense of art. Also, I like that you cut the unnecessary frames off getting to the point without wasting time. One of the best RUclipsrs.
I've found that a laser engraver is fantastic for making custom pcb. Rather than having to rely on those light sensitive boards, simply paint the whole board black, print your circuit out with the laser engraver removing the unwanted paint i.e. the copper that is to be removed. Then continue with Ferric Chloride.
Thanks for the kind words. I have finally perfected the process all the way to solder mask. It comes form a conglomerate of others work and tweaking it. In a nutshell, there are papers out there saturated with silicone oil that toner prints to with no problem (assuming the write paper) and little pressure initially with the board hot and flat and clean. It transfers perfectly then once stuck in the right place, in my heat laminator2X. Cooled and done right it peals right off and reuse the sheet.
I just did this process following this video, and using the same products from Jameco. It worked perfect, and I got a great board. The only difference I found was my board had to sit in the developing solution for almost 30 minutes, I give this process a big thumbs up, it worked great.
I liked this video a lot, put my mind at ease. The guy was your "quintessential electronics geek", but he was smart, and cool about the process. Highly recommend to my friends already. Thanks for the info!
What I always use is regular A4 paper instead of transparent sheets. It'll block more light but, the print is very sharp and does not have holes. So no need to print it twice. You need a laser printer for that though. 4.5 minutes in UV light and you're done. You can also use a marker to draw your layout on the board. The marker paint will protect it while you are etching off the copper.
If we want to have something thats cheaper to no cost thats satisfying and you can be proud of yourself. DIY! Its not all about the money. You cant be too proud if money is doing it for you.
I have the photographic negative for making the pcb , but Im not sure how to start making the PCB yet, thanks for your video it was the best I have seen so far.
Tip: use tracing paper instead of transparants. Toner adheres much better and because of the fine grain, layouts can be very detailed. It's cheaper as well. UV exposure needs to be a little longer. I don't need to double-up the layouts, allowing for a sharper image and therefore much finer tracks (I make 10 mil, 0.25mm tracks without a problem).
This is an excellent tutorial on this topic. I have shied away from etching my own boards due to my fears of having perilous chemicals around my house (I have to do most of my hobby stuff in my living room & kitchen) e.g ferric chloride and the like. Yes, using stripboards can be tricky, but the main hassle with these is soldering one up that was copied from a breadboard - and the breadboard test wasn't a proper test to begin with...Thanks for the info, anyway.
Nice vid! :) You can use a toner spray that spreads the ink so it covers holes that your printer hasn't drawn. or you can use nitrocellulose thinner. take a thin box, put the mask in and pour some nitrocellulose thinner on the box cover. The alcohol fumes will also spread the ink evenly along the printed mask.
True yea its very true indeed, it got heart because you made it yourself the same way i feel when i finished doing one of my own work. The satisfaction level is rewarding enough especially when you made it to work as intended :)
I'm using sodium persulfate. It's much less messy:) 200g/1L, with 60C heat, takes 10-15 minutes when it's fresh. Also it's better to place PCB copper side down (but not too deep, just under surface. I'm using holder from isolated wire). And get it out for a few times to remove bubbles.
Some more hints: for etching i use 1/3 h2o2 (18% ) 1/3 water 1/3 hcl . Don't make too much since you can not store it, it etches a board in just less then a minute. You must do it outside since it produces Cl in the reaction.
Red light exposure to the photosensitive PCB wont have any effect. BlackLight or Purple is at the other side of the color spectrum, and WILL have effect(Even better than the light bulb mentioned in the video). So if you want to setup the frame first, just use a dim room, as it will not have much effect. After that, you can use the purple/blacklight to exposure the PCB. Hope it helped! :>
some pads there were in short, the ones that passes between 2 IC pads, This is the most proffesional way to do a board, but it is quite expensive, and you need a 2 differnt liquids. but the result is very good. Im going to build a CNC mill to do this stuff.
This is the most enlightening video I have ever seen yet on YT! Im a music producer looking to repair and maintain my own music equipment. Now, (Mind Expansion) I realize I dont have to send it to ANYONE to repair it. I can repair it down to the MotherBoard. Soldering or Duplicate the Circuit Board. VICIOUS! - Logikbomb (DC Producer) THX @makemagazine
Protip: Wipe off the resist before drilling. Otherwise paper can easily get stuck on the copper near the holes, which is annoying. Worse, the copper around the holes might even get ripped away from the board if you are unlucky. This is often not a problem if the drill-bit is really sharp though, as it probably was in this video. Better yet, only use surface mounted components! :)
@v8power101 Light will make an unwanted exposure of the whole unmasked board. Red light doesn't do anything to the plate, so you can fix the mask while actually seeing it.
you'd want to do at least 5 of them to beat-out the alternative cost of a breadboard. and with the drilling and etching it takes more work. but in the end it looks better and would probably be more robust.
@deliusism1 ferric chloride is used in yours nearby coal operated power plant for cleaning tubes from deposits. wouldn't believe how much of the stuff gets into water. This is not nearly concerning as chemical industries. The pipes for wastewater are mainly ceramic or plastic, so You will clean the deposits (calcium based) from pipes. For all of these chemicals there are ways to recycle, depends greatly on country You are in. At my place, we just run a lot of water with it :)
we at school first make the paths with Alcohol Marker, make the holls and then put the bord in acid. After 2-3 min the metal is eaten by the acid, but where was with marker there is metal. We clean it with 70% alcohol and we move next...
I vote for hydrogen peroxide and HCl too. Doesn't stain if you spill a bit on the counter, and it's way easier to dispose of properly than ferric chloride. Using regular hardware store floor cleaning HCl and pharmacy peroxide works all right, and if you can find industrial peroxide (30 to 50% concentration) it works amazing and is dirt cheap. I got a quarter gallon of 50% peroxide from an industrial supply in town for around $5, once I got the dilution right, it's a wonder.
Great video :) Question on the topic: Have you ever attempted the toner transfer method and if so, how did it go? If you're not familiar with it: Basically, you print the pcb on paper, glossy preferably, and then lay the paper on the board, circuit side down. You then apply heat and pressure for a while (using and Ironing iron or similar), after this you dissolve the paper with warm water and the toner remains on the board, acting as protection when etching.
Patrick Hansen I use the toner transfer method with the cheap scotch TL901 laminator instead of the iron. It works unbelievably well. The trick is finding the right paper. THICK glossy magazine covers usually work really well. The paper is important because it needs to come off in the water really easily to keep you from having to rub it off, causing possible mistakes. But what's great about it, if it doesn't work. just wipe the toner off the board with acetone and try again. No wait time.
Patrick Hansen It applies a nice constant pressure between it's two rollers. Just have to pass it though a few times in order to make sure it gets hot enough.
I used to make my boards that way it was a good way until I came across a method that got rid of a lot of that work. Still use my laser printer, but using a direct transfer method. Using a special paper that allows the toner to be embedded on the paper. Then all I had to do was clean the board and iron on the toner transfer to to a standard copper clad board. after ironing the transfer on I just develop the board like normal.
what do you use to protect the copper from corrosion? People say that putting solder on the copper protects it but that's alot of solder to waste, very time consuming and looks bad. Can I use some sort of transparent lacquer or just spary paint?
you forgot to include the final part where u bundle up the Bi product send it to Mexico so they can dump in their creeks. That's why 90% of car electronics are made in Mexico
@v8power101 The point of the red LEDs ? Old enough to know what a film camera is and to know what a "dark room" is ? Basically, he can't work in the dark, but he can't work in broad day light neither (the board is pre-sensitized so the moment he removes the white coat, there's a reaction).. So there must be some kind of "harmless" lighting.. He uses the red LEDs for that, sets things up, and then "flashes" it. (Red light is also used in the military at night as pupils adapt faster to darkness)
Great video. Can you help me make a small sound board that makes engine start, idling, running. Cannon fire and machine gun fire. Caterpillar tracks squeak noise. For a 1/35 tiger tank. And be installed to a receiver?
I would like to Etch my own boards but I am thinking its pretty scary stuff. The chemicals are pretty nasty. Then what do you do with them after your done you cant dump them in the back yard. Anyway nice video.
@anariaq This is an extremely cheap method compared to cnc. Even the cnc machines you've seen on make: cost roughly $300 to build, which is waaaay too expensive compared to this. If you already owned one, however, in theory you could.
Hi Collin, You still watch this? How did you get your circuit twice on to one transparency? Any one else know? I only have pdf reader so can't do it that way. Looked on sourceforge for a pdf creator program but my first search didn't find any thing. (that fit) When I exported to image it reversed the colors, ugh. I'm using Eagle 6.4 free.
@Mitch200714 OH! now I get it I always thought the first acid was uncovering the traces or something and never realized that you did it as a negative. I guess this way it actually works XD
i like this video but guys what is the perfect etching process in pakistan there is less source so i can put the PCB in Na Oh but it remove the circuit part>>>>???
so is jameco sponcering make now? XD. ive never seen the photo-etching method. its interesting, but it looks like a lot of hastle. more hastle than the toner transfer method. anyway, great work collin
New to this so sorry for any dumb questions, but can I print the PCB layout on an inkjet printer instead of a laser printer? I don't have a laser printer. Thanks!
+lightingball123 You can use the inkjet standard printer however, the PCB transparency will be flawed at best. I recommend going into your printers settings and selecting "Hard print / Thickness increased printing" or similar. If that doesn't work, go to the local post office / FedEx (If your American) and ask to use their laser based printer. They will happily oblige. (For a small fee of course). May I also suggest buying a laser - based printer? If you are going to be making PCB's on a more regular basis, I highly recommend it, as it will save you an insane amount of money in the long run.
I love Collin's Mannerisms and personality. Makes me feel welcomed.
Couldn't have said it better, Yogi.
Isaac Asimov reincarnated :D
So far I've enjoyed all the video's that I have viewed on this channel. I also am one of those that is almost petrified by the thought of making my own circuit boards. Thanks for giving me the inspiration too give it a try.
i made my first one today
You are awesome! Look at the perfectly centered blueprint. Highly developed sense of art. Also, I like that you cut the unnecessary frames off getting to the point without wasting time. One of the best RUclipsrs.
I've found that a laser engraver is fantastic for making custom pcb. Rather than having to rely on those light sensitive boards, simply paint the whole board black, print your circuit out with the laser engraver removing the unwanted paint i.e. the copper that is to be removed. Then continue with Ferric Chloride.
What type of black paint, if I may ask? Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words. I have finally perfected the process all the way to solder mask. It comes form a conglomerate of others work and tweaking it. In a nutshell, there are papers out there saturated with silicone oil that toner prints to with no problem (assuming the write paper) and little pressure initially with the board hot and flat and clean. It transfers perfectly then once stuck in the right place, in my heat laminator2X. Cooled and done right it peals right off and reuse the sheet.
I just did this process following this video, and using the same products from Jameco. It worked perfect, and I got a great board. The only difference I found was my board had to sit in the developing solution for almost 30 minutes,
I give this process a big thumbs up, it worked great.
I liked this video a lot, put my mind at ease. The guy was your "quintessential electronics geek", but he was smart, and cool about the process. Highly recommend to my friends already. Thanks for the info!
you look like mad scientist .. hehe keep up the good work ..... very educatational
seen this video years ago an got me into etching found it again an by far the best video out on how to
What I always use is regular A4 paper instead of transparent sheets. It'll block more light but, the print is very sharp and does not have holes. So no need to print it twice. You need a laser printer for that though.
4.5 minutes in UV light and you're done.
You can also use a marker to draw your layout on the board. The marker paint will protect it while you are etching off the copper.
If we want to have something thats cheaper to no cost thats satisfying and you can be proud of yourself. DIY! Its not all about the money. You cant be too proud if money is doing it for you.
I have the photographic negative for making the pcb , but Im not sure how to start making the PCB yet, thanks for your video it was the best I have seen so far.
Damn, every single song you have in this series is really cool.
Tip: use tracing paper instead of transparants. Toner adheres much better and because of the fine grain, layouts can be very detailed. It's cheaper as well. UV exposure needs to be a little longer.
I don't need to double-up the layouts, allowing for a sharper image and therefore much finer tracks (I make 10 mil, 0.25mm tracks without a problem).
nice
This is an excellent tutorial on this topic. I have shied away from etching my own boards due to my fears of having perilous chemicals around my house (I have to do most of my hobby stuff in my living room & kitchen) e.g ferric chloride and the like. Yes, using stripboards can be tricky, but the main hassle with these is soldering one up that was copied from a breadboard - and the breadboard test wasn't a proper test to begin with...Thanks for the info, anyway.
Appreciated that you posed the part names at the end.
Why is some people dislikes this video? This video is very helpful.
Nice vid! :)
You can use a toner spray that spreads the ink so it covers holes that your printer hasn't drawn. or you can use nitrocellulose thinner. take a thin box, put the mask in and pour some nitrocellulose thinner on the box cover. The alcohol fumes will also spread the ink evenly along the printed mask.
4:47 I could smell the chemicals in my nose :) Does FeCl3 smell?
True yea its very true indeed, it got heart because you made it yourself the same way i feel when i finished doing one of my own work. The satisfaction level is rewarding enough especially when you made it to work as intended :)
Thanks, I didn't know it was so accessible. I won't say easy, but for anyone who has done photographic processing, it's much easier.
If I recall correctly, the Radio Shack PCB etchant is mostly Ferric Chloride and water.
I'm using sodium persulfate. It's much less messy:) 200g/1L, with 60C heat, takes 10-15 minutes when it's fresh. Also it's better to place PCB copper side down (but not too deep, just under surface. I'm using holder from isolated wire). And get it out for a few times to remove bubbles.
Wow thats actually quiet amazing to watch! May the force be with you!
No BSing around! Great vid!
Some more hints: for etching i use 1/3 h2o2 (18% ) 1/3 water 1/3 hcl .
Don't make too much since you can not store it, it etches a board in just less then a minute. You must do it outside since it produces Cl in the reaction.
Outstanding! Greetings from Brazil, friend.
Red light exposure to the photosensitive PCB wont have any effect. BlackLight or Purple is at the other side of the color spectrum, and WILL have effect(Even better than the light bulb mentioned in the video).
So if you want to setup the frame first, just use a dim room, as it will not have much effect. After that, you can use the purple/blacklight to exposure the PCB.
Hope it helped! :>
some pads there were in short, the ones that passes between 2 IC pads,
This is the most proffesional way to do a board, but it is quite expensive, and you need a 2 differnt liquids.
but the result is very good.
Im going to build a CNC mill to do this stuff.
depends on the ink itself... there is special expensieve ink that may stick, but the more common inks can get wiped off right away...
Loved It... Thanks for the presentation and music...
The design of the newer platform of board allows for better etching.
This is the most enlightening video I have ever seen yet on YT! Im a music producer looking to repair and maintain my own music equipment. Now, (Mind Expansion) I realize I dont have to send it to ANYONE to repair it. I can repair it down to the MotherBoard. Soldering or Duplicate the Circuit Board. VICIOUS! - Logikbomb (DC Producer) THX @makemagazine
Protip:
Wipe off the resist before drilling.
Otherwise paper can easily get stuck on the copper near the holes, which is annoying. Worse, the copper around the holes might even get ripped away from the board if you are unlucky. This is often not a problem if the drill-bit is really sharp though, as it probably was in this video.
Better yet, only use surface mounted components! :)
I using self adhesive foil for printer and stick it directly on PCB. This way i have a little bit better results. But good job.
I use 1% sodium-hydroxide for etching. It takes about 10 mins. Great video.
Really want to try this! Great video.
@v8power101
Light will make an unwanted exposure of the whole unmasked board.
Red light doesn't do anything to the plate, so you can fix the mask while actually seeing it.
Great info, great sound, great video!
I would use a Q tip and acetone (fingernail polish remover) to remove only what is needed, as to give added protection against potential shorts.
Collin please do a show on NI Ultiboard or some other PCB layout software
you'd want to do at least 5 of them to beat-out the alternative cost of a breadboard.
and with the drilling and etching it takes more work.
but in the end it looks better and would probably be more robust.
Yes, with this method you can, because it does not envolve transfer the toner to the PCB.
Last time I made one I used a ziplock bag. Used about a tenth the amount of etchant and the cleanup was a breeze.
@deliusism1 ferric chloride is used in yours nearby coal operated power plant for cleaning tubes from deposits. wouldn't believe how much of the stuff gets into water. This is not nearly concerning as chemical industries. The pipes for wastewater are mainly ceramic or plastic, so You will clean the deposits (calcium based) from pipes. For all of these chemicals there are ways to recycle, depends greatly on country You are in. At my place, we just run a lot of water with it :)
i'd love to make one. . . its beautiful. .
I usually go with pref boards for permanent circuits, maybe you could try it too.
we at school first make the paths with Alcohol Marker, make the holls and then put the bord in acid. After 2-3 min the metal is eaten by the acid, but where was with marker there is metal. We clean it with 70% alcohol and we move next...
I vote for hydrogen peroxide and HCl too. Doesn't stain if you spill a bit on the counter, and it's way easier to dispose of properly than ferric chloride. Using regular hardware store floor cleaning HCl and pharmacy peroxide works all right, and if you can find industrial peroxide (30 to 50% concentration) it works amazing and is dirt cheap. I got a quarter gallon of 50% peroxide from an industrial supply in town for around $5, once I got the dilution right, it's a wonder.
I am most impressed, thank you, I just learned so much.
Great video :) Question on the topic:
Have you ever attempted the toner transfer method and if so, how did it go?
If you're not familiar with it: Basically, you print the pcb on paper, glossy preferably, and then lay the paper on the board, circuit side down.
You then apply heat and pressure for a while (using and Ironing iron or similar), after this you dissolve the paper with warm water and the toner remains on the board, acting as protection when etching.
Patrick Hansen I use the toner transfer method with the cheap scotch TL901 laminator instead of the iron. It works unbelievably well. The trick is finding the right paper. THICK glossy magazine covers usually work really well. The paper is important because it needs to come off in the water really easily to keep you from having to rub it off, causing possible mistakes. But what's great about it, if it doesn't work. just wipe the toner off the board with acetone and try again. No wait time.
That's a brilliant idea, hadn't thought of using a Laminator, seems obvious though since it's job to melt plastic :) good tip
Patrick Hansen It applies a nice constant pressure between it's two rollers. Just have to pass it though a few times in order to make sure it gets hot enough.
I have used a mixture of 1 part hydrogen peroxide 1 part 45% Hydrochloric acid. Though it releases noxious fumes at first, it works quite fast
I used to make my boards that way it was a good way until I came across a method that got rid of a lot of that work. Still use my laser printer, but using a direct transfer method. Using a special paper that allows the toner to be embedded on the paper. Then all I had to do was clean the board and iron on the toner transfer to to a standard copper clad board. after ironing the transfer on I just develop the board like normal.
I see my next hobby thanks to you. Keep it up and I'll keep watching rating and subscribing.
this is Great stuff !!!
Many thanks for sharing.
@secretst0ld yes. As long as you have transparencies designed for inkjets.
Thanks, its a good build!
Cool. Is there a website I can go to to find different electronics to build other then audio hardware? Maybe a multi project website.
Oh more!! we want more, well i at least!
And yes, the board looks pritty, and it have heart.. :)
so do u have to use little clippings from old electrical components
is that the only type of bulb you can use or can you use a regular desk lamp over it?
what do you use to protect the copper from corrosion? People say that putting solder on the copper protects it but that's alot of solder to waste, very time consuming and looks bad. Can I use some sort of transparent lacquer or just spary paint?
Can you name de disadvantages, of satying in the 70¨s, in relation to the the aplication that he was developing?
just made my PCB,worked from second time, first time was to short eching time in acid
you forgot to include the final part where u bundle up the Bi product send it to Mexico so they can dump in their creeks. That's why 90% of car electronics are made in Mexico
SO awesome!!!! Glad Collin is at ADAFRUIT
I put my board into sodium hydroxide and saw the circuit board beautifully for a few seconds and then it just washed off. Did I use too my NaOH?
Does it have to be filled in around the edges or can you just have the bare traces ie. A pdf from fritzing
Good stuff, hopefully I can make my super Nintendo controller to usb adapter pcb using this method.
Nice Tektronix 465 back there at 0:33.
I love Eagle it's easy to learn :)
can you make a vid about circuit board etching of double sided boards?
So can you make two side PCBs using this method?
@v8power101 The point of the red LEDs ? Old enough to know what a film camera is and to know what a "dark room" is ? Basically, he can't work in the dark, but he can't work in broad day light neither (the board is pre-sensitized so the moment he removes the white coat, there's a reaction).. So there must be some kind of "harmless" lighting.. He uses the red LEDs for that, sets things up, and then "flashes" it. (Red light is also used in the military at night as pupils adapt faster to darkness)
Bevor etching or masking they (professionals) drill the hole, then coat the holes with copper again. Then the masking and etching the board.
Fantastic! Thank you!
Great video. Can you help me make a small sound board that makes engine start, idling, running. Cannon fire and machine gun fire. Caterpillar tracks squeak noise. For a 1/35 tiger tank.
And be installed to a receiver?
What is the point of the Red LEDs then doing the developing in the light?
I would like to Etch my own boards but I am thinking its pretty scary stuff. The chemicals are pretty nasty. Then what do you do with them after your done you cant dump them in the back yard. Anyway nice video.
@anariaq This is an extremely cheap method compared to cnc. Even the cnc machines you've seen on make: cost roughly $300 to build, which is waaaay too expensive compared to this. If you already owned one, however, in theory you could.
Where can the copper plates be bought, in Ireland would be great cheers
Whats so special about the PCB? does it have a layer of photoresist film already applied to it?
i can't find a pcb with photoresist here in the philippines. i guess i'll go back to old masking tape method.
to cleen ferric chloride off of stuff use some hydrochloric/muriatic acid. same type of acid just different names.
I like your Videos. You got a new subscriber!
Great job, thank you man.
Hi Collin, You still watch this? How did you get your circuit twice on to one transparency? Any one else know? I only have pdf reader so can't do it that way. Looked on sourceforge for a pdf creator program but my first search didn't find any thing. (that fit) When I exported to image it reversed the colors, ugh. I'm using Eagle 6.4 free.
hahahaha para quem conhece vai ver que tem um curto na placa que ele fez !! entre o emissor e o coletor do transistor :P
Great Info. May try this in the future. side note....has anyone ever told you that you sound like Agent Smith?
how much does it cost to make something like that
was that a Storm Trooper?
@Mitch200714
OH!
now I get it
I always thought the first acid was uncovering the traces or something and never realized that you did it as a negative.
I guess this way it actually works XD
Where can I buy this stuff?
I used google already, searched on Radioshack but can't find it. ):
i like this video but guys what is the perfect etching process in pakistan there is less source so i can put the PCB in Na Oh but it remove the circuit part>>>>???
thanks
nice video... thanks
so is jameco sponcering make now? XD. ive never seen the photo-etching method. its interesting, but it looks like a lot of hastle. more hastle than the toner transfer method. anyway, great work collin
New to this so sorry for any dumb questions, but can I print the PCB layout on an inkjet printer instead of a laser printer? I don't have a laser printer. Thanks!
+lightingball123 You can use the inkjet standard printer however, the PCB transparency will be flawed at best. I recommend going into your printers settings and selecting "Hard print / Thickness increased printing" or similar. If that doesn't work, go to the local post office / FedEx (If your American) and ask to use their laser based printer. They will happily oblige. (For a small fee of course). May I also suggest buying a laser - based printer? If you are going to be making PCB's on a more regular basis, I highly recommend it, as it will save you an insane amount of money in the long run.
do you need a laserprinter for this?