Is Keto Dangerous for Cholesterol? | with Dr. Bret Scher
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- We got to sit down with Dr. Bret Scher to discuss how the medical ketogenic diet impacts heart health and specifically cholesterol. Dr. Scher is a cardiologist and metabolic health specialist and is also the Director of Metabolic Mind, a nonprofit transforming the study and treatment of mental disorders by exploring the connection between metabolism and brain health. He is also the host of Metabolic Mind's RUclips channel (@metabolicmind) where you can learn even more about metabolic health.
Thank you so much Dr. Scher for joining us!
MEDICAL KETO RESOURCES
You can learn more about medical keto for mental illnesses on the Metabolic Mind RUclips channel (@metabolicmind) and on their website www.metabolicmind.org/
You can also learn more about metabolic health and mental illness from the book 'Brain Energy' by Dr. Christopher Palmer - brainenergy.com/
You can find more about my keto coach Nicole Laurent and her work on her website:
www.mentalhealthketo.com/
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I'm so glad you're approaching this by showing the research and advice from a non-quack specialist and making it clear that this is something you're trying and not something you're trying to convince everyone watching to do. Could not have been done better! Thanks so much for sharing this with us in such a considerate way!❤
I’m so happy you are trying keto. The establishment medical community is so stuck in the past and chooses to ignore the millions of people benefiting from keto or carnivore. They are so resistant to any sort of change. I’m glad that this year we will finally get some studies which will finally show that cholesterol may not be the bad guy that traditional medicine has simplified for so long. I’ve followed you for a long time and seen some of the dramatic lows in your life and when you were trying keto I was so hopeful and praying you benefit from it. I just want you to be well forever whether that is from keto, your meds or a combination of both. Just stick to diet keto and not any extra crap. All the on store keto snacks and supplements are not good.
Hi Lauren, I just want to say, your are so beautifully ethical, also details are so important to you. I love listening to how you speak, it brings me such peace that my traumatized brain needs. Thank You so very much for taking us on your's and Robs Ketogenic journey. ❤❤
You just managed to sum up Lauren's channel so well! I have been trying to articulate this for a while!
@@mayaflorey5018 I was about to say the exact same thing! @kavitadeva put into words exactly what I was feeling.
Thank you for spreading awareness on this!!
Yes, keto diet is the best for people with schizophrenia. I notice when my sister eats sweet food and with gluten or carbs her issues increased with delusional matters. It might sometimes related to nerve system.
My cholesterol was through the roof!
However I switched to a Mediterranean diet with lots of Omega 3 and exercise and it has come down- I blame the anti- psychotics
I have been on Keto for 6 years. It was the best thing I ever did for myself. So many health issues disappeared.
Thank you so much Lauren, I am really grateful to you for trying out this diet and investigating all the ins and outs. I have been researching this diet on the internet along with watching your videos. I think I have said before, I did go into ketosis once and immediately felt a little hypomanic. I know it is something that will adjust, but I will need to take time off work (like a few months), in order to deal with the side effects. Right now I am eating more protein, and by itself that is making changes. Sorry, I am thinking out loud about my plans. Take good care and thank you again for this video, and thanks to Doctor Scher too, he is a really good communicator.
We're just about to publish a video about keto and hypomania. Watch for it on metabolic mind youtube.
My own experience: I always have ApoB measured along with my LDL cholesterol. My LDL-chol tends to be close to the maximum value of the range (of healthy values) whereas my ApoB is in the middle of the range. What that tells me is that my LDL particles are larger than average. It is the number of LDL particles (and not the amount of cholesterol in them) what matters for determining the rate at which plaque accumulates. And for heart health, lowering inflammation is key (e.g. check your high sensitivity CRP value). Last year, I was on carnivore for 3 months and my LDL-chol was extremely high while my ApoB was at the top of the range. I introduced a lot (25 grams per day) of fiber back into the diet (basically went back to keto) and that lowered my LDL-chol again. So, it is the fiber what should help with LDL-chol, in my experience.
So thankful for this channel and the specialist you are including! I decided to try Keto because of you and the "why not try it" factor about 2 weeks ago. I got my bloodwork done for a non-connected reason and my cholesterol has SKY ROCKED (168 to 259) for the first time in my life. BUT my blood glucose is much lower than normal too . If i had not seen this information a few days ago, I might have freaked and stopped! Thank you!!
Great video! Thanks for telling us about the pros and cons of Keto.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing!
I'm so glad you're approaching this by showing the research and advice from a non-quack specialist and making it clear that this is something you're trying and not something you're trying to convince everyone watching to do. Could not have been done better! Thanks so much for sharing this with us in such a considerate way!❤
This x1000.
👍
Wonderful video! I would love another update from Rob on how he is feeling and doing!
I come from the weightlifting world. Athletes eat far more meats, fats than regular people ever will, and cholesterol isn't an issue, general population has a misconception as to what causes high cholesterol. Couple years ago I had a full blood test done , after 20 years of eating 2-3 pounds of meat per day my cholesterol and all other numbers were perfect, absolutely no blood abnormalities.
The best athletes are vegans and consume super low fat diets because high fats are hard on the digestive system and on the liver! Check Jokovic's diet
@@marijasamardjioska7051no, there are no elite world class athletes who are vegan. Give me names. Name me one vegan who won the SuperBowl, Stanley cup, NBA championship, Mr. Olympia, Gold medal at the Olympics anything give me a name.
@@bdegrds Djokovic!
@@bdegrds There are some here and there. If you're truly interested, just Google athletes who are vegan. I don't think that commenter should have implied it's the norm though.
Except that's not the same as someone who eats alot of meat yet never gets off their couch. People who don't exercise at all have different body reactions and test results to food than a very active person.
Thanks!
Exercise is very important to management of heart health
Is medical keto meant to be used long-term?
It certainly can be, but doesn't always need to be.
typically 2-5 years, which is what's been studied in epilepsy. Most can then come off the diet and maintain their seizure control. We hope the same to be true for mental health
We don't know. If the theory is that poor metabolic health due to lifestyle caused the damage to mitochondria and that a medical ketogenic diet helps put the body in a state where those damaged mitochondria can be repaired and /or replaced, it may be that once everything is running properly, the medical ketogenic diet won't be necessary.
That said, returning to the same or similar lifestyle that created the dysfunctional mitochondria in the first place, may result in a reversal of healing and having issues once again. It's sort of like diabetics reversing or putting their diabetes into remission with a low carb ketogenic diet and then returning to eating a standard western diet. More than likely, their diabetes will return. Once in remission, they could probably add more healthy carbs and not need to be in ketosis, but there would be limits to what they could ingest without getting ill again.
Excellent interview! Great info and not discouraging!
I am not a big meat eater and I lean more toward vegan thinking but if a body needs healed for metabolic disorder etc. I see it as an option for people and safer than using meds health wise.
Medical keto, as Laruen has explained and shown us is a very strict and expensive regime. Deviation from it, may knock you out of ketosis and into psychosis So Keto is functionally used like medication. What happens when you get sick, travel, or your body changes with age? Will Lauren be able to do this for decades out?
Did anyone ask the same question about the medications she takes?
Hi have you tried the MACE Energy Method ?
Thanks for the valuable information. I was wondering about this subject (cholesterol and the Keto diet).
I weigh 106 kg at a height of 170 cm and have been diagnosed with obesity and tobacco use disorder. I've been in full abstinence from any form of smoking for over two years. I'm physically strong, with muscle mass and 35% body fat. I'm working out with the goal of reaching 90 kg, which means I need to lose 14 kg. I have addictive behaviors and need to have something around my lips or mouth, such as salty crackers with various flavors, to maintain focus and avoid feeling down throughout the day. I also drink coffee regularly but try to eat healthily, consume minerals, and avoid processed foods. What do i do?
Thankyou :))
How does this diet help with burning fat if you live a high anxiety or stressful life style
Outstanding once again. The truth is setting us free....
My mom has done low carb/keto for a long time. She's 63 and has a calcium score of 0, while the rest in our family have quite high calcium scores.
In a mouse study, keto alone decreased glucose utilization gene expression in the heart long term, but keto + exercise did not. I assume that means glucose utilization via glucogenesis. So it appears your heart and muscles still get enough glucose, in addition to ketones, when exercising regularly. Somehow that seems relevant to me.
All our love for you Lauren, as your viewers. 🫶
I found with the addition of medication I lost all modulation to keep performing
Does medical keto diet cause fatty liver?
I noticed you’re blinking quite a lot in this video, and you once said it is a side effect of your illness. Is it aggravated by contact lenses? I am assuming you’re wearing them here. If not, my apologies. Anyway, when I wear contacts, my eyes get really dry, and I blink more because of that. I have depression and anxiety, and take sertraline and cymbalta, but the blinking for me only happens when my contacts are in. Just wondering. Nothing to do with keto, I’m just very curious.
Is medical keto diet hard to follow if you need to avoid cows milk products (intolerance) and want to avoid processed red meat (cancer risk)?
The red meat causes cancer is a fabrication and not true. You don't have to fear red meat at all. Dr. Ken Berry has good videos about that topic, supported by true science. Hope that will help to ease your mind.
ApoE 4, look it up. Might explain the rise in LDL.
I am interested in someone more objective. I need more info from all sides. I am getting worse in my mental suddenly and don't want to increase meds but this is a high maintenance diet and I don't know if I could stick to it.
Iain Campbell has hours of footage of 28 or so very rational people claiming full remission from keto. The problem is that people think this kind of claims are made all the time, and in fairness, we've all heard of fad diets. But the last time anyone claimed a treatment effect of this magnitude was John Cade in 1949 with the rediscovery of lithium salts.
I have spent a decade reading literature to save my wife's life, and Danan et al. immediately stuck out because it was the only study other than Cade's making claims of substantial remission. The most effective treatments are evident without RCT, in other words, the effects are so obvious, that they are visible to the naked eye. You should be far more skeptical of effects so tiny that it takes huge RCTs to detect them.
The other factor is that there is very little money to be made directly from keto, yes the diet industry is worth a lot, but they can back any horse they like and still make money, there is no particular advantage to backing keto over any other diet. So the lack of financial incentive is another reason to think there is probably something to this.
I will leave you with this question, "if you had a choice between a drug shown in a 22-person trial without a control group that showed a 60% remission rate, or a drug in 400 people randomized control trial that showed only a 10% improvement on a rating scale (so not even actual remission), which drug should you take? Most people would answer the second drug because "RCT is the gold standard", but you should actually choose the drug that was so obviously effective it only took 20 people to prove it. Don't believe me, go and ask a meta-analyst.
Here is Cade's study, his observational methodology may ease your doubts: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2560740/pdf/10885180.pdf
Here is Danan: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35873236/
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Yes, I think it can because isnt cholesterol derived from fat? too much cholesterol not good. even though, for fuel for exercise i think it's ideal to burn fats next to the normal glucuse, and stuff
Lauren, how is keto now affecting your schizo affective disorder?
That has been all her videos up until this point. She covers it in detail up until the last two videos.
yoga, meditation, Ayurveda is terrific !! 💛
Compare keto to anti-psychotic meds if you want to talk heart health! Of course, do NOT stop taking meds without careful supervision, but seriously, people with schizophrenia are at serious heart risk. How much worse could keto be?
If you're worried about cholesterol do a low fat Keto. You'll still have the same ketogenic response in your body but will have less harmful fats. That's what I do.
That only works if you have lots of stored fat on your body that can be used, but even for those people, that excess fat storage will eventually be used up (not necessarily a bad thing though of course). Most people doing a medical ketogenic diet need to up their exogenous fat consumption to increase ketones sufficiently. You could do a ketogenic diet with mostly mono and unsaturated fats and very little saturated fats. Most likely your LDL cholesterol will not go up and may even decrease, depending on what your pre-keto diet was.
Important thing to note - keto diet is not for everyone. Neither is vegan, high carb etc ... Lot of things depend on your genetic inheritance. Check what kind of lifestyle your ancestors had. If, for example, they were raising cattle for milk and meat, and didn't have much grain or potatoes around, then keto could be right thing for you. On the other hand, if they were mostly grain farmers, did not use much milk and meat, then keto could be very wrong for you. This is of course oversimplification, but bear in mind that your genetic code is usually adapted to lifestyle of your ancestors, especially if they were doing that for centuries.
But agriculture has only been around for about 10,000 years of the millions of years of human evolution.
@@jan_ellison_baszucki It is usually considered that smaller evolutionary steps for humans do take around ~1000 years. For example, it is assumed that Neanderthals interbred with modern humans 45 - 70 thousand years ago.
Basing dietary choices on evolutionary theories is pure speculation. We have far better data looking at case studies.
The claims that keto is leading to full remission in some individuals is indicative of a very effective treatment. There are three indications of robust evidence, sample size, duration and signal strength. The keto argument is a signal strength argument.
In small samples a strong signal strength such as full remission is indicative of efficacy. It's similar to Schou's argument for lithium efficacy.
@@replaceablehead You need to be careful there. What causes schizophrenia is still unknown today, but is generally assumed it is hereditary i.e. genetic. If we assume that keto is a treatment for schizophrenia, then it could be concluded that for certain genetic makeup high-carb diet is "wrong" .Or simply, they have evolved around low-carb , high fat and protein diet. On the other hand, majority of population does not have schizophrenia despite high-carb diet. Thus, their genetic makeup is able to cope with such diet, i.e. they have evolved differently. It is worth mentioning that sample studies of some treatment are usually heavily biased towards people that do have some illness, not towards healthy people.
@@aleksazunjic9672 Yes, correct, in fact heritability is likely underestimated in studies on the subject. If you take the top papers on heritability in schizophrenia and adjust the rating scale criteria to include schizotypal and schizoid personality disorders and schizoaffective disorder the heritability jumps into the high 90th percentile range. Epigenetics likely effect the coarse and severity but it's clear that genes cause susceptibility. However, to say that we can base dietary choices on what certain populations ate is pure speculation. For a start we just don't see radical differences in dietary needs based on heritability.
I’d really rather hear from a doctor not associated with Metabolic Mind given that both Nicole (the keto coach) and Dr Scher are part of the team. A third party expert would be more helpful in offering a more objective opinion.
Also: how wild that the Roblox CEO is one of the founders of Metabolic Mind. Or perhaps ironic given the issues and concerns around Roblox.
You know why the roblox cdeo is one of the founders right? His son's bipolar symptoms are in remission after implementing metabolic therapies with Dr. Palmer
@@CashMoneyMoore Yes, I know that. It still makes it ironic given the reported issues around Roblox that have detrimentally affected the mental health of many children.
My huband is living with schizoaffective disorder and his bipolar is depressive type. Keto drove hus cholesterol very high and we cannot get it back down. Currently Mediterranean lifestyle. He has disordered eating and carb addiction.
All of you are talking way over my head…..I fast more than I eat because of gut issues and also heart. I have the abundance of the little lipo a, I had a bypass in 2008 and 16 stents since then. I’m scared to put food in my mouth for that reason alone. I stay in a brain fog most of the time. Lauren just showed up on the side bar, I liked her and now follow. My opinion is that Lauren does not look well. I worry about this journey she has embarked on. Go easy on me, y’all are all smarter and I have already admitted to that lol
There have been comments in the past that your rapid blinking is now more under control, but there is a LOT of rapid blinking in this latest video. Does it mean anything either way?
She's not wearing glasses so perhaps it is contact lenses which cause more blinking than normal.
@3872Apparently this has been a topic before, by both her and in comments. I don't always watch every portion of every video, nor in order, so it's something I've seen more about in the comments. Viewers have commented about her rapid blinking in the past, and I asked about it, and was told that rapid blinking for her has been an indicator of pending psychosis, someone else suggested med side effects, etc. More than one commented, since she started Keto, her blinking has decreased. I never noticed in her videos at all, until this one. If you watch her interactions with Dr. Scher, her rapid blinking is not "more blinking than normal." Now I can see what others have previously referred to. It's more tic-like than typical blinking. Watch closely at those parts. @15:50 through @18:20 is a good example.
Atkins diet helped kill my brother...clogged an artery in the back they couldnt operate on.
Easy to claim without proof.
@stevec3872 well he was on the diet for a long while, been to the doctor, dropped dead. He lived next door...had lost some weight with it.
@@johnnyplunkett8532 Yet again, all we have is your claim and correlation is not causation.
@stevec3872 true
Probably was the seed oils they are notorious for clogging arteries
An LDL over 70 mg/dL causes atherosclerosis. Most people fail to meet this threshold. A typical keto diet will have you well above that level; to get below that level you need to eat a plant based ketogentic diet, so called 'Eco-Atkins'. Most studies I can find show an extreme rise in LDL on a normal keto diet. It only lowers LDL in people with ridiculously insane starting levels, bringing it to a number that is still way above guidelines (we're talkin' more than double).
For reference, here is a paper showing a net decrease in LDL particle number on low carb diets with relatively "normal" starting points, pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34159352/, And here's another showing no net change but an improvement in LDL size. cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-020-01178-2. We hope that helps provide a little more perspective.
You should look up the lean mass hyper responder study. The lead author, Dr. Matthew Budoff shared some data a few weeks ago comparing a group with extremely high LDLc vs a group with "normal" LDLc. Not only was there no difference in the amount of atherosclerosis between the two groups but there was also no correlation in either group between LDLc and how much plaque build up individuals had. LDLc is a player in plaque development, but as far as being "causal", that has never been established and is showing to be a non issue. But since that is what modern cardiology has been primarily built on, it's going to tke a long time for that house of cards to fall. But I bet it will, just maybe not in my lifetime.
@@reinerschafer1708 Mendelian randomization studies demonstrate causality. High cholesterol causes heart disease, whereas genetically low cholesterol is strongly protective. 5 years simply doesn't compare to lifetime cholesterol randomized at birth.
@@reinerschafer1708 Mendelian randomization studies demonstrate causality.
@@QstandsforredDoesn't mendelian randomization look at genetic variants? LDL can be changed by many things other than genetics. High or low LDLc due to genetics would see correlation with atherosclerosis, not causation.
Nonsense ... I started a ketogenic diet and in 6 weeks my cholesterol levels went from 160 to 235. I get Carotid artery scans every year. From those I get a number which is the state of my arteries with respect to plaque and blockage. My numbers are borderline. There is no way I am going to walk around with a blood cholesterol of 235. I want to live a long life. If you don't agree with me, what are your numbers. Have you gotten a scan to see what is actually going on. If not, you are following a trend with no real knowledge of how it actually effects you. I dare you to get a Carotid artery scan and see how a diet high in fat is affecting your arteries. Lauren, have you checked on how much plaque you have in your arteries?? Cardio vascular disease is the leading cause of death world wide. How could that be so if eating a high fat diet doesn't increase artery plaque. Where is the disease coming from? Do you really think you are different from the rest of the population and you will not get cardio vascular disease even though it is killing people world-wide more than any other cause. Really?
During our evolution we never tested cholesterol. Most of us were however eating a ketogenic diet for the majority of the year. Enough carbs to kick us out of ketosis just weren't available to us for the vast majority of the year. It's only when fruit were plentiful for a relatively short time and possibly we were lucky enough to find some honey that we would have been taken out of ketosis. Ketosis was the default stage for humans during the vast majority of our evolutionary history.
Knowing that, I doubt very much high cholesterol was killing us early. It just makes no sense looking at it through an evolutionary lens.
Im on day five of starvation. Ill be reintroducing 500 calories a day.
Voluntary fasting is not starvation which is a severe personal calorie restriction that is imposed upon you against your will.
@@stevec3872 I wouldn't care about your opinion if it came with a pallet of gold bullion.
@@tendiesoffmyplate9085 Ahh, but only if you knew what you are talking about but not understanding the difference between fasting and starvation indicates that you do not know what you are talking about. Plus, when you post on a public forum you are open to different opinions regardless if you like them or not.
@@stevec3872 see above
@@stevec3872 see above
Stop worrying! Eat low carb if you feel well. Don’t go back to feeling miserable.
Gut Check, by Dr. Steven Gundry... latest work just published...
I say everything in moderation except drugs and alcohol
The problem is that once you add "except" it is no longer "everything".
I agree that it's no good for heart health
Did you watch the video? Dr. Scher cites evidence to the contrary.
I am specifically on a ketogenic diet because I have heart disease. My HDL has shot up, my trigs have dropped dramatically which resulted in an extremely healthy trig:HDL ratio. My LDL went up slightly, but it went from Pattern B to Pattern A, so got much healthier. My LDLc is now sitting at the median level for all cause mortality, so perfect. My blood pressure also dropped significantly. My waist circumference dropped by 6" and I lost 50 lbs. I don't see how any of that is bad for heart health.
Well said. @@reinerschafer1708
Any way of eating that eliminates food groups is not good for overall health of a human body
It will catch up with you sooner or later
That's what I'm thinking. Plus it is difficult to eliminate food groups so I wonder how long most people could even stick to it.
@@SevenUnwokenDreamswell our ancestors stuck to it for the entirety of their lives. But then again, they didn't have a Dunkin Donuts in their village to tempt them.
@@reinerschafer1708 Yes we have many options now. I have a particular weakness for fruit, though I try not to overload on them.
Removing carbs (healthy carbs ) is insane. Our cells need carbs as fuel; that's literally our fuel, our carbon!!
It's actually a very dangerous diet.
You do not need to ingest any carbohydrates, they are not required and not eating them is not insane. Once you are metabolically adapted, your body (and especially your brain) will readily use ketones for fuel. You also produce your own glucose, as needed, no ingestion of carbohydrates needed.
You think fats don't have carbons? LOLL
@@CashMoneyMoore Exactly. Not sure where Natalie gets her info from and why she's spouting absolute nonsense as if she's an expert on the human body. She obviously isn't. Sometimes it's better to say nothing, rather than speak and show your ignorance.
Fats and oils are organic compounds that, like carbohydrates, are composed of the elements carbon (C), hydrogen (H), and oxygen (O), arranged to form molecules.
@CashMoneyMoore Did I say that? Any intelligent person understands that we need protein, carbs, and fats. They are macronutrients, essential for the body to function optimally. All 3 of them support the body's functions. To remove carbs is stupid; plain and simple.
Groups of people that have lived close to the Arctic circle, like reindeer herders and Inuits, have next to no carbs in their diet and they have successfully lived for hundreds of generations.