The ArchCast Special - What Happened To Trench Crusade - Political Bans And Mass Drama
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Trench Crusade is a skirmish wargame centered around art created by Mike Franchina and with rules by Tuomas Pirinen set to enter a kickstarter stage this year. Normally when you are about to launch an extraordinarily niche product into a niche market you want all the attention you can get but not in this case! As 28 magazine with which Trench Crusade shared a discord server started banning a wave of people who got interested in the game due to it's resemblance to 40k. These banning's where apparently near universally political in nature and individuals where banned for theorycrafting or asking questions about why some one was banned or simply for giving of the wrong vibes! This all ended with the Trench Crusade of the discord being completely wiped and eradicated by their friends at 28 magazine
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Fun fact, when describing the demons of hell to the Aztecs, the preachers where told they where basically what the Aztecs worshiped as gods.
Also, the Aztecs where not really popular, they ruled through extreme fear and violence. Without the overwhelming support of the locals, the Spanish victory would have been impossible.
So yeah, they would team up with hell in a heartbeat, but not all of the natives where like that.
It's hilarious reading the history of early Mexico. Aztecs listening to Catholics and facepalming _en masse_ that "We didn't need to do any of that!" Oh, but remember, like the European pagans, the Aztecs only ever converted to Catholicism because they were defeated, not because it was a more humane and satisfying religion ("God loves you enough that he sent his own son to save you. Yes, you personally. You matter to God.") than living in fear of some bloodthirsty murder cult.
@@harbl99plenty of European pagans converted without being conquered. Entire kingdoms converted peacefully at times.
true. I don't know why the left wants to side with the Aztecs so much? they are not the only culture in South America and they were almost the ancient world equivalent to Yazis.
just saying. there was a good reason why EVERYONE sided against them as soon as they could.
@@harbl99
Lmao most Pagan tribes/kingdoms converted without being conquered.
@@harbl99 "Oh, but remember, like the European pagans, the Aztecs only ever converted to Catholicism because they were defeated"
Off the top of my head, in Western Europe the first Anglo-Saxon converts in England where made when several thousand Saxons willing converted to Catholicism when a Mission from Rome visited there in the early Dark Ages, after which through the establishment of Catholic Monasteries and more missionary work it became the primary faith in the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms.
From England, Saint Patrick spread Catholicism to Ireland (at great personal risk to himself, even getting enslaved for several years at one point), again converting the tribes there willingly and without the threat of force or any army or Roman Legion or the like backing him up.
Saint Columba then spread Celtic-Christianity from Ireland to the Picts and other pagan tribes in Scotland, again through mission work and with no military backing or any threat of force behind him.
Back on the continent, the Visigoth Kingdoms in Spain very early on willingly converted to an early form of Arianism before eventually becoming Catholic, and King Clovis converted the Franks directly from paganism to Roman-Catholicism after swearing to do so if he were to win a great battle, which he did.
Basically the only significant examples of "Pagans being forced to convert because they were defeated" came from events like Charlemagne slaughtering the remaining pagan tribes of the Saxons in East Germany after giving them an ultimatum to convert the previous year, and the Teutonic Crusades into Eastern Europe centuries later. In the Mediterranean and Western Europe however, and indeed in most of Eastern Europe under Orthodox Christianity the process from pagan to Christian was a willing one, either individually through the work of the proselytizing Saints like Saint Cyril or most of the population of a tribe or kingdom converting after the conversion of a King and his court.
Much of the massive success of early Christianity in Europe is down to this process of willing, peaceful conversions, rather than the pagans being militarily defeated en masse or "living in fear of some bloodthirsty murder cult" (as if cultures with long histories of raiding and who invented such things as Blood Eagles would be afraid of something like that) like you ignorantly claim.
"WHITES could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this twitter before. There could be WHITES anywhere."
I have to wonder if Tuomas is one of those people who think Finland should definitely participate in "slavery reparations" - because Finland produced non-insignificant portion of the tar required by the transatlantic slave trade.
To explain why this is insane;
1) Finland was a Swedish colony at the time (not technically, same case with Algeria and France where latter declared former an "integral part.")
2) Average Finn involved in the tar industry was a destitute labourer trying to make a living or a poor peasant making use of his land.
3) Most goods produced by slavery, that made their way back into Finland, were luxuries that the average person could not afford.
4) If this standard is accepted, logical extension of it can make almost anyone guilty of almost anything, basically.
As the $800 HRT flowed through its veins, it’s myriad fear of caucasoids faded “as long as I’m a woman, I can do anything”
@@Xazamasoh he absolutely would. The Finnish people are white, or at least were before refugees were imported (don’t know how Finland handled it). Anyway by virtue of being white they and thus you personally are responsible for african slavery. No penance will ever wash away the stain of sin stamped upon you
It’s bs but that’s the CRT dogma
that greentext tho lol
@@XazamasOr Poland, Or Russia, or Hungary or Slovakia or Bulgaria, or Greece or Austria or Italy. He will believe whatever american deep state would order him to believe.
17:01 Never idiocy, always malice. They are deliberately dishonest because their entire ideology depends on it.
or better yet. they are very dishonest because they can't win on fair grounds.
Why they believe in it then?
@@АндрейНеугодников-м6еThe biggest lies are the one we tell ourselves.
@@АндрейНеугодников-м6е Conquest by the minority. That's pretty much the sole value.
I think the best example of that malice is just that sheer blank Discord. It really just emphasizes that they didn't care about this, the genuine sole interest was in the malice of destroying something others had for being outside the scope.
These are the same people who looked at fantasy race and thought of minorities. lol
Hang on, you're telling me hobbits aren't supposed to be asians?
@@markwatton4752 Look, I thought Orks were Vikings, but we can only dream.
They look at rorschach tests and just see minorities on every one
@@markwatton4752 Hobbits are obviously an idealized version of the British.
It pissed me off and made me laugh when some guy said half orcs in baldurs gate3 were racist because he thought of black people when he saw them. They expose themselves constantly.
It's sympathy for the bugs all over again.
Only far, FAR worse this time.
just think. they are more willing to have sympathy for actual hivemind bugs and murder demons than a fellow human being who just likes things differently.
What steinerscout said. I'd say worse. The original Bugs in Starship Troopers may be a group of genocidal Hive Mind Fascists but they're not particularly malicious, they just think this is their universe and we're all living in it. Nothing personal. The movie bugs are worse since they genocidally hate individual existence on concept. The Helldivers bugs MIGHT be intelligent and MIGHT have been benevolent at the start.
Heck, even the Chaos Gods are multifaceted and not completely evil. In contrast this is Literal Satan fairly accurately portrayed. The Idea of Evil. Redeeming features? What are those?
leftism is a mental illnes, xenophilia is an illness
You mean sympathy for the devil? lol
Hey Arch.
Im the one who started the idea of Aztecs and actually wanted them to be converted or at least use their symbol which was the eagle eating the snake which would be an amazing Church faction symbol.
Then after a talk with Helis i accepted Evil worshipper Aztecs would be better and an Inca Catholic Empire with Tlaxcaltecas forces would be great to side with the Church to fight Aztecs.
Its so sad it was over so fast, but at least im happy this little action of mine turned into a snowball that exposed the ones behind this game.
nice
Eres un héroe, vro.
At least you exposed them and show them wiouth the mask, is a pity see an amaising stuff die so fast but better to know early than late
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
Och man I would liked that. Even probably would played The aztecs but not anymore.
It is woke like Warhammer.
Blantlant americanisation and wokeisation of warhammer already tought me to not be invested into anything.
"people are leaving 40k because they don't like women"
Right. Who else wants a story focused on Sisters of Battle hunting a rogue Space Marine chapter?
The left intentionally doesn't like to think about the Sisters of Battle because they're too religious and serve the patriarchy (The Emperor and ecclesiarchy).
They would shelve them if they weren't the only major "girl power" faction (and I believe they will once they finally have butch femmarines).
More Sisters of Battle and Silence in general please
@@commisaryarreck3974I loved the interaction of Nathaniel Garro and sister of silence you can easily do so much with them
I’d love the Sisters do Silence to get an actual fucking update but considering what GW passes of as “Lore” now they are safer in blessed obscurity
SoB have insane potential if done rightm but in this day and age, it will be wasted
Trench Crusade were served up an eager fanbase on a silver platter, a situation most game devs could only dream of. And their response was to promptly vomit their vitriol thousands of potential customers.
I hate modem day game development.
until this mass cult psychosis has burned out or got purged,avoid everything western entertaiment like a plague!
They couldnt wait to blow their shot. Also people: This is what you get when you give your "friends" power over your company to such a degree. YOU are the one investing your time and money, YOU are the one with all the financial risk, YOU are the one whos life will be destroyed if your friends fuck up your project because of their political idealogy. DO NOT make your "friends" into community managers.
These discord mods? They will be fine after they tanked YOUR project 7 foot deep into the ground. You on the other hand will be left with nothing.. infact worse then nothing.. you wont even be able to find a new job in the industry because everyone will see that youre a failure AND have toxic baggage dragging along behind you.
then let them fail maybe even help them fail
but at least dont give your money to them
Never call malice incompetence.
This was not incompetence but malice in service of Deep state woke. I like The art style but i would rather steer clear of that port.
Its amazing how stupid these people are
On the "Christianity bad" thing, I"m reminded of the movie Priest. I'm not a fan of Catholicism, but, when they're all that stands between you and a vampire apocalypse....any port in a storm.
sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend! vampires don't care about your religion, only your blood!
NGL, as a non believer, I look out the window and see demons Zerg rushing my flower bed, I'm probably revising my stance and reaching for something cross shaped.
That's the whole point of a grim dark universe - there aren't any good guys anywhere
Moral relativism in games where literal evil wants to murder and devour everything.
Moral relativism at all...
If actual good and evil exist (which I believe it does) then moral relativism as a notion in play serves only to strengthen the position of evil and weaken the position of good.
Therefore moral relativism is a force of evil.
@@astrovarius543how do you define good and evil then?
@@astrovarius543
What does God say about you not having taken your Schizo-meds again?
@@tomaszwota1465 Is hard to define, as many said maybe something good for you, for other is evil or something that evil in short terms due to situation or long term is good.
But seen we are in a kind of religious topic, what about these, good, will be something that allow to a society being built and prosper and benefict not only you but others, allowing them to prosper be a short or long turn, also not necesarily is always a good thing, maybe a thing that is for teaching them a situation or an action that maybe in the moment is counter prudent but at the same time in long term is necesary, also if these require an acction that damage others or hurt or cause a potential damage to others or theyre properties talk to them and explain respecting theyre decicion.
As for evil is the oposite, causing a situation or taking for others, wiouth returning anything, or lying, deceiving in order to obtain more riches, or resources for you or those who you want to benefict, be because material or mental satisfaction, wiouth caring if these beneficts or help you, or the society around you in short or long run, or aquiring for you wiouth caring how are these obtain or if it is necesary for you.
I think the reason i choose these idea, because good and evil are hard to define, but using the 7 capital sins as an example, all the sins are things that benefict you, or excess that benfeicts you taking all benefict at the cost of others or society you live, meanwhile the seven heavenly virtues, are the opposite they restrain you, you must restrain and show your restriction in order to give to others or mantain what is necesary so society prosper at the same time in these virtus are many, read about them, the corralation betwen the sins and the virtus and oyu have an idea where they go.
I think the idea be behavuors that are not taken to excess, i think the idea is excess and avoid it, dont fall to excess and restrain, allowing by restrain not taken and allow others to prosper, with the idea the more you give to others the more you have to yourself, but at the same time, if we take the idea of back and foward, if you live in a society that respect, you respect and society respect you, so if you restrain yourself the society do the same, allowing you to prosper.
These comes with the idea, a society that is sinful it gets corrupt, evil, why because everyone wants more for itself and those that you care, wiouth thinking in allowing others to prosper but more important taking from others, wanting from others, and seen others like nothing, objects numbers.
So taking these how would i define good and evil, evil be conducts and acctions that look to take from others, be materail, resources, or even act in ways that make them unhappy, wiouth any way of return, taking wiouth any way of return, that beneficts me, or those that support me, wiouth caring or wiouth returning, in an excess way, meaning i dont need these, good is the opposite, i restrain miself, mi conduct and desires, in a way that i measure miself, these doesnt mean, i dont do anything that benefict me or take something for me, it measn i act but i dont exceed miself, in ways it hurts others or the society i live, i also think and care for it, and those who live in it,but remember you cant care for everyone in a society, when i said i care, means i think if mi acctions wont have a high impact in others, i respect others properties and material, i dont exceed miself.
These is more or less what i think when i read the opposition of the seven sins and virtus
@LordTurtleneck
My God, says you forgot to take your lead pill, again.
As an atheist, I used to be annoyed when Christians thought we worship Satan. I'm starting to understand the confusion.
Yeah playing Devil's advocate(pun intended) to the point of making excuses for the literal personifications of evil from Hell itself will do that to an image of people, especially if those people are anti-theists.
Its not that THEY don't believe in something, they just hate your religion for existing.
Its much harder to brainwash you if you already believe in something. As an Atheist myself, I witnessed in real time the Atheist movement transform into this just before Hitchens died.
Either you're worshipping God, or you're worshipping satan, this world corrupts very quickly and if you're not aiming at that which is highest you will meander off all the easier
@@mcorte2224 Is your argument seriously that believing in and worshipping neither (how or why would you worship something that you do not believe exists?) is unironically the same as directly and sincerely worshipping the literal devil? Really? That is exactly the kind of uncompromising simplistic duality I would expect out of a communist ("For or against the revolution") and it makes you no friends amongst the undecided. It turns people against you who do not have to be your enemies because you leave them no choice.
Once I understood the philosophical meaning of Satan and sin as a metaphor or stand in for destructive influence, and not a literal horned dude with a pitchfork, my perspective changed a bit.
The infection is spreading so fast that it's set in before the only people who would pay for it even find out about it.
That tends to happen of you have zero immune response built into your system.
The second I heard 28mag was involved I knew this was doa.
@@RedStar441 The issues of 28 I’ve flicked through were merely weak imitations of the modern, thin-on-the-ground White Dwarf format, but if it’s staffed by their rejects…
God, I can only imagine.
Dude, based on the screen shots of 28, they painted the artwork on known plague bkankets
Yeah. I see this as a positive. It always gets worse before it gets better, and if the infection is running THIS fast, I think they are nearing the end.
If the creators don’t divest and denounce the other company soon, I’m not gonna be supporting them.
WoW, 😮😣 just had a €0MMENT removed 🚫 for *_siding_* with the Establishment (guess the A.l. AIgo-€ensor doesn't yet understand nuance, context or indeed "QUOTES" (i.e. Re-teeets essentially) (not very *_PR0GRESSIVE,_* is it ❓
After a few days of not denouncing, their silence is louder than any outright endorsement.
Let them go bankrupt, once they do we can steal the IP back
Oh no, we have lost Kevin's support! Detrimental blow to the IP
^This my friends is a crazy person.
The progs keep telling to "move on", only to find out that when you try to join a new community, the progs already went it and tell the admins and mods of the new community about you, and the said progs tells you again to "move on".
And if you make your own community, either they will hijack it and kick you out, or get your community be scrubbed off from the Internet.
They all know each other and have a lot of influence in social media and many corporation think that social media will bring them fans, when already shown that most social medias are just pits of woke
they can only hijack something because it is open to be taken over
Let's just make a wargame where the main evil faction are communists/marxists imbued with powers of eldritch evil.
Got the same idea, I was going to have communism be a dark eldritch knowledge that came from outside the universe that being push into this reality (sort of a tongue and check making fun of communist people pushing their politics into everything and other fandom universe).
@@Underworlddream I'd say go for it;-)
Bet.
@@Underworlddream also I think a good name for such faction would be 'The Woken" as in they have been "awaken" to the warped reality presented by the eldritch abominations they now serve. They would also view these abomination as an ultimate form and expression of collectivism and their twisted version of "egalitarianism".
Fuck it, i'd play it.
Hey _Trench Crusade_ , Keith Thompson called, says he wants his aesthetic back.
You know Keith Thompson? I love that artist. I wish he got more notoriety.
Aw man I love Keith Thompson's work, he made me want to learn how to draw. My favorite artwork of his is the modern representation of the 4 horsemen.
When God is LITERALLY IN YOUR CORNER!
You are the good guys.
Yeah, that's the thing, they are evil. There was literal satanist on their side of the argument.
Depends on the god ...
The Christian god is FAR from good...
@@MnemonicHack The alternative seems to be a neverending age of darkness and suffering of which even death wouldn't be an escape. Like, Bruh, I read the lore primer.
@@MnemonicHackMaybe don't sin then.
Trench Crusade was a weird speedrun for me. During my morning coffee I saw someone post artworks and I thought: "Hey, this looks neat. I'll have to look into it." After work and doing chores the next thing I saw was screenshots from their discord ree-ing about "tradcath chuds" and other buzzwords.
Shame really, I liked the Iron Sultanate. I am a bit of a sucker for all things Ottoman.
I was going to jump on the KS at the time but I couldn't was bad timing but have been signed up to their play test stuff. And wow this has damaged things beyond belief. I bet they are just trying to sort their stuff out hard now trying to do their own thing like they should of from the start. Never get activists to run things for you.
Same I really like the Iron Sultanate
witch hunting new and potential customers sure is a grand marketing strat!
Bold strategy, let's see how it plays out.
DOA
Calling these witch hunts is an insult to the actual witch hunts!
When you got that mega corps mentality but don't git that mega corps money
Ahh trench crusade ive never seen some speed run the table top miniature lifecycle so fast why it was killed before they even sold a model
The community is still growing. It definitely wasn’t killed off. Cutting off leaches isn’t killing the body.
@@Algernir cutting off leeches? thats a funny way of saying purging your community to please the woke biggots
@@Algernir "leaches"
The fact you cannot spell on top of your incessant lying is absolutely hilarious.
@@Algernirthe community, what community? the channel is gone, hence no community
@@eng3d what are you talking about? The subreddit and discord have been booming
Thing is, Christianity does not and never has required human sacrifice so honestly I do see it as them trying to drag Christianity down to some extent
Certainly not human sacrifice, but there have been historically Christian practices(usually of more radical and fringe groups) that involved the inflicting or enduring of pain and suffering upon one’s self in order to “cleanse” the body and soul of sin. With some of the rationality for it being a mimicking of how Christ suffered upon the cross for the sins of mankind.
Given this setting picks up around the time of the Crusades those ideas would have still been around and most certainly grown more extreme and mainstream when facing the literal demonic hordes. Just as they saw a public spike during the Black Death in our own reality.
Noone of the Christian-equivalent units actually work off explicit sacrifice unlike the Hell and Sultanate armies.
The only mention of it is even said to be frowned upon by the church, but people on the frontlines in superstition wanting to offer themselves as protection of the not-dread on the Catherine wheel or criminals seeking atonement through blowing themselves up/unable to live with guilt and make a difference in the fight against hell and the sultanate.
And that one of the not-dreads uses lambs blood to keep the wrath of god away from him when its brought down on the battlefield.
@@BigBroTejano the activities of flagellants and the skoptsy are hardly mentioned in the bible and even less encouraged. There's mention of Paul doing it to himself which is roughly where the scriptural basis begins and ends.
@@BigBroTejanoYou’re missing the point of what he’s saying, Christianity and Judaism don’t just not practice Human Sacrifice they specifically condemn the practice, it’s complicated and you need to understand some pretty heavy theological points to understand why, but for Christianity at least it’s actually tied into the reason that vampires where believed to be repelled by crosses, to involve human sacrifice into the Christian faction’s modus operandi is at the very least a pretty big misunderstanding of how Christianity works, and at worse it’s malicious in intent, either option is going to have a pretty big impact on how the narrative is handled.
@@BigBroTejano Self-harm as punishment for sins and gruesomely killing people are two different things.
Im convinced that they react so bad to fighting against demons is because they see themselves in them because they destroy any happiness and sense of humanity from everything like the demons so the action of violence against the enemy is seen as violence them so they attack us.
The chat made the wrong choice in the poll. The only correct stance for developers like this is contempt and distain. Refusing to acknowledge their efforts and letting them rot on the vine is the best recourse.
Do not give them attention, exposure or coverage. Focus that energy on far more deserving developers. It's not about giving ground, it's about supporting franchises that won't betray their ideals and their fans for DEI ideology.
this
i know its cliche but make your own
not only that boycott any franchises that you supported once and have since turned their backs on you
This is some wild projection, im amazed to have seen all the stages. From the enter to mainstream to petitions, tantrums, the company starting to agree, then the gasligthing of "it was always satire" to quell the intruders, and now the npcs are gasligthing themselves into having always being part of the fandom they never cared about
All of these before even the first miniature and books start
Yeah it's actually pretty fascinating to watch.
@@carbonjohnson6414Its the normie's (derogatory) paradoxical obsession to be included in the popular thing but at the same time want to feel unique. Its a special brand of narcissisism for people with no personality or real convictions
Companies can't stop us from playing their games, only deter us from giving them money.
Already downloaded the free rulebook and looking into kitbashing. I'll enter on my own terms.
Exactly. We’ll take what we want and leave the refuse behind
That's the spirit!
ah, it is kinda sad that some Left tea made a nice toy and then saw some kids looks very interested in his toy, but it was those kids that he hated so much that he preferred to destroy his nice toy than sharing it with the kids that he hates out of spite. what a sad world we are living in
like won't it better to "convert" people but no...
Perhaps adults should stop playing with toys to begin with.
@@LordTurtleneckwell that is retsrded thing. Everything can and should be a toy.
@@LordTurtleneckYou're right. I should get home from work and just stare at the wall for a few hours.
Man went full Perturabo Levels of Spite
Y'know I didn't quite understand the phrase "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" until I heard about the short-lived legacy of Trench Crusade.
They whine about seeing repeated stuff all the time in entertainment. *It's always been "Christianity bad!" for literally decades now.*
Isent 'banning people for vibes' just basicly 'banning people for wrongthink' though?
The Aztecs sacrificed so many people that there are reports of the rivers running red. When the movie Appcolypto came out some south Americans tried to give Mel Gibson (director) grief for depicting them as blood thirsty. So they hired some historians to look into it... They found that if anything his portrayal was too kind. So, yes, they were blood thirsty savages.
I've known about Trench Crusade (or more accurately about the art pieces) for a long time and finally it dawned on me what problem I have with it and many other aspiring project. There are zero art pieces of the factions interacting, no battles depicted. That makes the whole thing feel like a pile of independent works instead of a coherent thing.
CHRIST IS KING!
Daz right!
CHRIST IS KING
Take your meds.
@LordTurtleneck Militant atheist snowflakes are so cringe.
Amen
I would suggest changing or turning off the donation sounds. It's kinda disruptive to have those two soundbites routinely talking over you.
That twitter post from Aurora is so generally evil. I’m surprised it didn’t realize how evil it actually sounded.
Those things have no self awareness.
56:00 at this point it would be punker if they were uninronically pro church
It is already, since being punk usually is about being counter-culture. I’d argue that being left wing is quite mainstream these days.
Punk to Orthodox Christian pipeline is very real. Look up "Death to the World".
Some dumb takes from people that don't know the lore out there, Astartes have no concept of "romantic" love or lust. They live for war, they are reapers of flesh and for the most part look down on baseline humans for being weak, rutting like animals etc. so it stands to reason they would be completely disgusted by what the alphabet people get up to.......
I don't think they care whether the Space Marines are capable of love or not. It's not about making sense, it's about turning Space Marines into a copy of themselves. It's about corrupting and destroying what fans of WH40k love, just because they hate seeing others having fun.
> Uhhh, the Christians aren't the good guys in this, ackshually
> How dare you align the Aztecs with the demons
🥴
A counter invasion is an interesting idea, the weapons of the enemy are twice as effective after all. I'd suggest straight up copying what we like of the setting, art and all, and then running with it in our own directions with only the smallest of acknowledgement for the origin of the setting. If they are this corrupt at their core, there is almost no chance the lore wont crumble as well in time; thus, better to take it from their hands and write our own lore. Given they can't, and have stated they won't try to, copywrite the general aesthetic, we can just make our own heaven vs hell in ww1, with Aztec demon worshippers and muslim, christen, and even jewish crusaders if we want.
They said they aren’t copyrighting it?
Sounds like it was a very anti-Christian game. Whole premise from the start is "What if the Crusades hadn't stopped killing the poor innocent muslims who never did anything wrong ever?" As if there hadn't been about a dozen genocidal Jihads before the first crusade ever happened.
I think they favor Islam only because of the race, "POC" if you will, even though Islam isn't strictly about race.
How do you get that out of a setting where Christianity is fighting the literal forces of hell alongside the Muslims
Preach
Not sure where you are getting that. I read through the lore primer and have been involved in the discord and there’s definitely not an Islamic bias. For one they only get one faction while currently the Christians have two and a potential third in the works. They aren’t presented as better or worse than the Christians, both are presented as delving into their respective religions and sciences to gain an edge against the forces of hell.
When they side with the demons they are not stupid, they are identifying themselves.
I don't get why they made the setting as it is if they were planning on making a critique of Christianity. "We wanted to critique Christianity, so we made a setting where they're fighting the forces of pure evil. Look at how bad the church is." It beggars belief.
As an aside, the only setting where I would unironically join the demons would be the monster girl encyclopedia setting. And that's because the demons there just want to be waifus that have lots of sex with their husband and raise a family.
I think they somehow believe that they’re showing that the Christians are just as bad as the Demons, but as Arch points out that doesn’t really make sense here because everything the Christians are doing is being forced by the fact that they have to do these things or suffer a fate worse than death.
To be fair, good is not good if it does evil. Sacrificing human life to commune with the dead is the exact opposite of what God teaches in the bible.
The setting looks to be a collaboration between an artist and a rules writer. We have a fair idea of Toumas's tastes, given the direction he took Warhammer Fantasy Battle and his work on Mordheim. The idea seems to be to create a setting around the art. The art is being created by one artist and is personal and nightmarish, the artist is clearly affected by Christianity that doesn't necessarily make them Christian or at least not the type of Christian who thinks that their enemies are literally demons and need to be destroyed.
I doubt very much that the creators even want to be the next 40K. I am sure they would be happy to make enough out of this to eat, have a roof over their heads and do things for their family. But a big part of the motivation is also going to be artistic expression.
Part of this is going to be a fascination with Medieval European culture but for very different reasons to an evangelical christian.
@@kayosiiii I don’t think this is just artistic expression, this is much darker, there’s a reason the 1980s writers of Warhammer chose not to use Christianity in their fantasy work, it’s not just because they where ripping off Elric of Melniboné and Michael Moorcock did it so they needed to do it, you can do moral ambiguity when it’s Chaos versus Order, because both can be taken to extremes, and become self-destructive, good vs evil can never be anything but black and white, and the only reason why you would try is because you hate the religion you’re claiming to critique.
@@drewjohnson-85 If I had a critique of Games Workshop that they frequently forget they are doing Law vs Chaos and stray into good vs evil territory in recent years. I think the characterisation of Chaos really becomes less interesting because of it.
Just because the subject matter is humans (or heaven) vs hell doesn't mean that the underlying conflict is supposed to be good vs evil.
Take for example Milton's "Paradise Lost", or a more recent example "Good Omens".
I am not saying that Trench Crusade is the same but you do have to examine where you are making assumptions.
Having said that I wouldn't be at all surprised if the artist was at some level dealing from trauma relating to Christian dogma. That's an experience that myself and a lot of other people have had.
The aztec thing is reasonable, but there is also the theory that the reason why so many of the central and southern Americans took on Christianity, on top of being forced, was because Christianity's god is the one that dies for them, not the other way around. So yeah I could see how the priest class, zealots and the like who may get more power and influence from joining the demons, would join them, but I can also see how the masses who would rather not be sacrificed, would side with Christianity.
Not even out yet, and they're already on the attack. They don't even wait for it to become popular anymore. They just snuff it out.
Evil cannot create, only destroy. The left is evil.
Cant have a setting that could possibly put a dent in "their" 40k. That would take away from "their" power afterall... so better destroy the project in its infancy before it can take off
They just hate Christianity THAT much.
@@riptors9777 You know you might be onto something there, maybe there is some plot to ruin any rival to 40k.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD 40k is in the process of breaking into the mainstream, wich means there is alot of clout, prestige and influence to be had. And as much as it pains the wokesters, if the playerbase would leave the IP now for another that scratches that particular grimdark itch, the IP would collapse since it hasnt secured its mainstream position yet.
It also could be another case of incredibly stupid and naive creatives that are so inept at dealing with the business side of things that they readily welcome socialite parasites into their midst to deal with all that stuffy business stuff. Shit like that was why alot of successfull dev studios back in the day sold out to publishers like EA. They just want to create.. they dont want to deal with things like finances and community work
I like Dev but I think we've overindulged in his communism.
How about some Kibs?
I do miss Kibs in the archcasts!
Hearing Arch and Kibs bounce off each other and bringing up points the other never thought of discussing Hazbin Hotel was great!
This is fixed very simply: NEVER, EVER, allow the fandom to be a part of the development of your concept. It will turn to fucking shit every time. A concept/universe will stand on its own two feet.
Plenty of fandoms are competent enough to carry the mantle when the company itself goes away. In this case the pattern should be obvious why this one is spoiling everything.
@@RedStar441
Spergs on the Internet never make anything better. Keep the unwashed masses the hell away from your product if you want it to have a shred of value.
@@RedStar441it all depends on external demographics:
Tumblur-like fandoms are mostly self containing circlejerks that exist within their own separate reality bubble, slowly fading into hyper niche communities that are almost impossible to stumble across the normal way.
Genshin-like communities are annoying privileged brats towards anyone that isn't part of them, and are utter menace towards their fellow members and content developers.
*'THE'* Wh40k in all of it's glorious Derp, on the other hand is beyond insufferable to the point where nothing containing even a single asset that's even remotely similar within 80 conceptual universes is allowed to exist. If GW doesn't get you, the WH40k fans *WILL* turn your whole community into a reference $h!t show even when they themselves adore your product and have the best of intentions for it.
And **IF** by a miracle you somehow manage to survive GW and the WH40k fans, then without a doubt you are *BOUND* to go down to the very far-right political locusts of insecure incels seeking 'temporary refuge community' as even WH40k dosen't want them- which on itself is a paradox considering the story of how WH40k came to be and the closeted political messages & biases within it.
I mean open source development have shown pretty good results and often the best writers and artists of a IP usually come from the fandom
this
decentralized things will always be open to subversion
They never thought the females were the reason the fans were upset, just like how they never actually thought the skin colour of the new Doctor in the latest season of Doctor Who was what the fans were upset about. Subvert, deflect and project is the name of the game.
Never believe them when they claim to be "perplexed" or "get the wrong end of the stick" and start arguing about a totally different issue. They're not confused. They know exactly what they're doing. You can't lose a debate if you can make your opponent start debating something else entirely, especially if what you've tricked them into doing is defending themselves against an accusation of moral impurity - this is a particularly malicious one you should watch out for, because the very act of defending yourself against the accusation... is itself a validation of their claim to the moral high ground, and that's what they want. They want you to acknowledge that they are the true moral arbiters, and you are subject to their judgements.
… I had to literally stop and read that bit about justifiable violence. That hurt my head it was so stupid
No Dev this stream, stream was good.
Agreed. That dude ruined the one with Sargon completely
He has been insufferable recently
Kick Dev bring on Vee
@nebulamask81 Vee has a wife, apparently who keeps him away.
Dev's boyfriend forces him out of the house.
Dev? Who? I'm new here.
It's a shame, this had such a good aesthetic & some really great worldbuilding potential. I loved the ideas, something very similar to an aspect I had once lain out that I might still return to eventually which also had influence on the primary setting I now work on which currently includes books, TTRPG, & narrative videos nearing production. Such a tragedy to be decimated in its infancy by the infectious devilish whispers of DEI. I saw it, was greatly excited, then it destroyed my interest within an hour of having learned of it. I have some small fragile hope that Toumas pulls it back from the brink but at the moment I will stop following it at all.
Oh also not interested in a shirt but I would be interested in a mug or pin.
If anything i think it should be everyone's beat interest to sort of "restart" the community. I feel like in their own effort to gatekeep (I want to make it very clear that i am supportive of gatekeeping, this is just that in this case), they placed a target on themselves and it's now making things bad. People jumped the gun so to speak and now it's backfiring onto the community as a whole.
What’s frustrating is seeing all this go down and causing needless controversy. Meanwhile the real controversy is waiting years at this point for them to get their kickstarter models out 😭
Best ArchCast in a while! Strangely enough EFAP suffered from a dip in quality at the same time.
I was excited for this setting for about a day until I saw this banning going on, yeah no longer interested. The art is pretty metal though, I will say that.
I think one thing that has put me off was the lack of a byzantine empire faction and instead we get as always Ottomans that borrow hellenic and byzantine mythology and aesthetic because they have no identity of their own
They don't want to bring up the Byzatine Empire cause they want to uphold their narrative that Christianity brought down Rome.
No Dev! Finally I can enjoy an Archcast! Praise the God Emperor!
we made community discord for Trench Crusade, with freedom of discussion and a focus on discussing the settign apolitically.
for the setting and hobby itself, not to inject and infect with politics.
in less than 72 hours, it has over 400 memebers. all are welcome if they wish to enjoy THE GAME.
Link me. I’m not into Rench Crusade, but I just may end up becoming into it
Whats the addy?
doubt, post the link then so I can inspect this claim
Don't care. I'm not going to give money to a company that displays active hatred towards me because of who I vote for.
@@varietywiarrior from what I seen it look like the community there is working on 3d party 3d model so people don't need to buy the official stuff. The game already have a bunch free models, by fans of the setting so they don't need to pay the creator.
Can we Gatekeep them from life?
Not legaly.
@malaficus
We can make it legal
@@10011110011 I love democracy
Damn Warhammer 3k didn't even last that long
so we could have all been rejoicing and yelling " Jesus Protects!" or " FOR CHRIST!" instead we're all going " OH God, here we go again!"
and that's why nobody want's you in their club.
@@kayosiiiiChristus Rex Regum. Hope you enjoy knowing that all morality in the west viewed in a positive light is based on Christian values. Also including most scientific invention and progress is also from Christians. You should also be thanking the church you were even allowed an education as education was only for royalty before Christianity, oh and charity, helping the needy is thanks to Christianity. Community and healthy relationships was thanks to Christianity. Liberal views protected under law was thanks to Christianity too. Can keep going, but I already know based on your other comments that you're mentally stunted and have zero capacity for an open mind with a complete failure of understanding the "human experience", via psychology
To be honest I can't complain too much, the longer this drought continues the better it'll be when I get my project is ready to launch.
Imagine laying a golden egg and smashing it because people who disagree with your shitty politics like it.
Finaly a ArchCast without Dev again those are my fav. i can't stand his stuborness where he doesn't even want to think about other options
Doesn't he always brag about being a centrist?
Kinda weird to do this when your game is not even out yet
if this does nothing else, then it should show you that there is no respite, there is no safe haven. your only choice is to keep your hobby alive however you can, to give no inch, and never by their products. start your own groups and meet others of like mindedness. Play the game and know they can never take it away from you. And when theres enough of you, make something yourself.
People continually fail to learn the truth that there is nowhere to 'escape' to. The woke will always follow you like a haunting malevolent spirit. Oh, you're tired? Too fucking bad, you're not allowed to rest, because the left wing will not rest until they control everything
I recently started attending church (since Easter this year). Obviously I've been reading the rule book and lore (Bible) but I've started looking into the main company and their social engagement with customers (Vatican).
Turns out the Church is also a victim of shrinkflation (devalued and stripped down services) and deep in the process of woke corporate takeover (the pope is woke and working with DEI and secular elites).
The parallels to what's going on in geek culture are truly shocking. The very same forces employing the very same strategies and corrupting towards the very same ends.
There is no escape. There is no retreat. There is no safety.
Oh, and they're banning and shaming any employees (priests and bishops) who speak out against the take over.
@@astrovarius543 I think if oyu think in the bible, remember, the spirit, the real spirit is in you, god is everywere, your spirit is in yourself, yes the churt is being devalue and the woke is coming and making everithing worst, look the world and you see how the west is deminishing, but dont look evil, yes it is hard and for me seen many things going down, and i am not the most pious, i go to church and pray dont atend to sermons, i go and pray mi way, i thanks to the lord for everithing, and become more spiritual, i am not the best but is what i see.
I at difference of mouse utopia these will end, because in mouse utopia humans give them everithing in reality, well when you see what is happening quality goes down competence goes down, someone has to tend farms, mantain eveirthing and when things start failing eventualy we will need masculinity and yes maybe regions lost but the moment lost the invaders will leave because they dont care the land or the place land is, they care the wealth, and when see nothing they will leave, not from all what was taken but leave of most, and more important all these feminist and woke will leave disapear, woke and comunism only exist as long as they have riches, when everithing goes downis bye bye.
Be safe and remember your spirit, the way you talk to god and what you and how you talk to him, is you and your soul, not a chruch a church is a place that yes facilitate or maybe is a special palce, for you but the spirit is in you god is everywere and loves us
For the price of a single unpainted warhammer army, you can get a mid range Resin printer, quality pre supported STLs, and enough resin to print nearly double the amount of models. The doom they were already staring out they have now welcomed and fed themselves. You can make your own rules, make your own models, next is some tech to mix your own paint and they will be well and truly fucked
18:48 bro, we actually made it
the doom remake with "humanity challenged" demons arguments, being unironically made by the very people it was parodying
Arch please see this
It's 'the bugs are actually the good guys' argument all over again.
This is a damn shame. But I guess it should be a lesson for any other companies wanting to engage with the public. Make sure you control your social media, and that you trust the people you put in charge of it, and that those moderators are in fact people who are worthy of trust. The developers behind Trench Crusade might be woke themselves, but even if so, they've just been thrown under the bus by their so called friends.
Whenever I see these people making accusations of sorts towards anyone, it nearly always is projection; to accuse the others of what they are guilty of.
Just like they attacked Shift Up and Stellar Blade for "daring" to have an asian female protagonist.
Looks like 28 Mag can't tell the difference between getting punked, and being Punk. Color me surprised, unless that'd be black-face, I'm not Canadian enough to get away with that.
Bring back the ancap trap cat cohost!
The anarchy of being a gaymer chair-bound LARPer
Sucks that the trench crusade turned out to be a dud. But at least we got more updates on arch's game that looks dope
Right, because trench crusade continuing to be successful is a dud but Arch’s game no one’s talking about or cares about is great. None of the tabletop communities, local groups, or online communities and blogs have been talking about it I’m sure it’s a banger.
@Algernir I was personally excited for it. I dont really care about the overall tabletop community. So I guess.......cool?
@@Algernir me calling it a dud also is my own personal opinion. Not on its overall success. I meant I was really interested and not anymore after how they acted
@@cloudstrife2878 Ahhh, that’s fair. Yeah calling it a dud since it was dead on arrival for you makes sense. I thought you were talking about the game in relation to the wider tabletop community.
@@cloudstrife2878 I more meant it sounds odd to say a game that’s still going strong is a dud and then go on to say that a game no one’s heard of looks great. It seemed like you were suggesting that Arch’s game was comparatively successful when it’s not being talked about outside his own community. Fair enough about the tabletop community as a whole but tabletop games are inherently community based. If you have your own game group that’s going to play it that doesn’t matter as much but the fact that neither local nor larger gaming bodies are discussing it means that it may end up dead in the water otherwise. I have a bad habit of getting into games without checking if the community as a whole plays it and then not having anyone to play with. I’ve got plenty that are playable around me but a couple that I jumped the shark on. TC is one that’s getting local interest due to it making the rounds online while Arch’s would probably be another one that would end up in my “there’s no community to play with” stack and I’m trying to keep that stack down haha.
Whatever. They made their bed. They can lie in it now. Shame, seems like it would have been a really interesting setting. It is amazing that time and time again, these companies end up siding with the screaming minority who almost never buy what they're selling. They just can't wrap it around their head that it is really hard to sell a product when your priority is virtue signaling instead of just making the damn game.
Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us sinners.
The best prayer! ☦
Arch you mean by "capitalizing" on Games Workshop's mistakes. Capitulation means to surrender
Wait, so the Crhistians opened the gates of hell on porpuse? Aww cmon why do we have to be the fucking badguys all the time
Technically it was the Templars who opened the gates of hell. In real world history one of the accusations against the Templar Order during the persecution and destruction of their order was that they had fallen into heresy and the worship of “demonic” beings.
@@BigBroTejano but that was from the french king, THE FRENCH they are the true devil worshippers everyone knows that
@BigBroTejano claimed to be heretical by the guy highly in debt to the Templars.
Nothing to see there!
@@sadwingsraging3044 truly a shame how everyone I need to purge always happens to be guilty of some heresy or another. What a shame.
But the idea of heretical templars does lend itself to interesting stories.
They got corrupted by ancient demon not-spaceship not-stargate they dug up.
More of a mines of moria deal.
Now you can actual build a world based of art alone i mean look at the world of scythe
As someone who had no personal interest in WH40K, and not much interest in trench crusaders either (I'm just not into Grimdark)... I still find it a tragedy that the people who like that keep having their hobby subverted; I'd rather people segregate into enclaves with their preferred tone and genre rather than see those with conflicting tastes be forced to share a table... But as it stands, its getting harder to avoid the tourists and still enjoy one's hobbies without those who like Noblebright getting stuck playing with those who like Grimdark; not to mention all the shades in between, or worse.
Been working on a tabletop game for about 2 years now. Basically Fallout meets Gamma world with a healthy dose of the movie Idiocracy. Style is based around the overly macho comic book style of the late 80s and 90s.
I'm glad I didn't get into it but I still wish for a non corrupted replacement for 40k
Just press charges on them for refusal to serve you based on your religious beliefs. Sue them. Win the lawsuit easily. Use that money to make a conservative version of the same game.
lol, that is not how this works in any way.
Lol was money exchanged? No? Then it won't work you midwit.
No Dev, best Arch stream.
I mean, it's totally understandable why these people wouldn't like people crusading against the forces of Hell...seeing as they ARE the forces of Hell
"You just want an excuse to do violence" WHAT THE HECK DO YOU THINK YOU DO IN A WARGAME? They going to say they just think this is a good aesthetic for a tea party or something?
This setting goes so hard I could probably get some Christian fundamentalists to get into it.
For real, I became aware of Franchina's artwork when I was a pretty radical Christian, years ago. I thought it was metal AF. Sad to see this project killed in teh crib by the usual suspects.
Nope. Too much heresy.
I can't imagine being an artist these days and seeing people abuse your passion as a political tool. Just let the man create a kickass universe, and if you are that indoctrinated in your belief system to the point of not being able to separate imagination from reality please just leave and stop ruining the fun for everyone else. EDIT: the discord thing is fucked up though
Love that trench crusade clipped their own wings, and threw themselves into obscurity before we were even aware how woke they were, frankly saving us the effort I suppose.
Four weeks later. From my perspective, I get an update on reddit twice a week, and in the update they are always happy they don't have to deal with "the chuds". Then the mods all congratulate them and point very hungrily at links that make them anything that looks like money, with desperation. But... no one does. So congrats, you won.
Presents world where humanity and God fight side by side against the devils of hell...
And these people choose Hell...
No human sacrifice is never good and Christianity will never and has never needed human sacrifice.
To share the "I have a tabletop game idea" idea...
I'm trying out a concept that I think would be a #wh40k "killer" because it goes right back to the core ideas of Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader-
1-The right amount of earnest seriousness,
2-A lot of epic teenage cringe moments, and finally
3-Massive amounts of sarcasm.
I'm hoping that my Gen-X/Gen-Z teenage cringe, combined with a definite set of aesthetics (humans are '00 powered armor, "elves" are '80s/90s anime, "dwarves" are dieselpunk, "Chaos" has no less than SEVEN factions you can pick from, etc, etc, etc) can get people interested in going further.
So, should I share more or should I work on this in quiet peace?
for the last bit, do both. Reach out and find SOME (that is the key word) people and get a think tank going and go quiet until everything is ready to unveil.
Also NEVER go public and have stocks, that is how most good IPs die.
Honestly that kinda sounds like the Fantasy Flight 40k RPG's, and those are pure badassery bound in print. Although this whole debacle gave me the thought to make Trench Crusade into a D&D 5e supplement using the Savage Company book for 5e as a basis.
@@borderlands10 I liked the FFG 40K RPGs, and felt they were the closest we could reasonably get to a Warhammer 40K RPG in all respects. Especially with the hard-core focus on exactly one faction/part of the 40K universe. This is where I think the new RPG is failing, in that it's trying to do everything at once.
But I'm keeping track of my notes, it might be useful at some point.
Being "punk" isn't contradictory to being Christian. The punk to Orthodox Christian pipeline exists.
To join into the collection of "I have this tabletop wargame I'm making" I have this tabletop wargame I'm making. By actual coincidence it is set in hell where 11 demonic factions, 1 angelic faction, and 1 victim faction are vying for supremacy. It is a grimdark setting where demons are still evil and Heaven is actively and intentionally making Hell terrible for the sake of its own opulence. A key gimmick of the game is that players can spend movement reactively to dodge attacks and AoE, since I always found it weird how in tabletop games you often just dodge everything while remaining stock still.
Remind me to solidum infernum, i would love to see the oposite i will see if i start a story but opposite, heavenly factions or a heaven army, guide by comanders building it, and trying to avoid a world to corrupt, is more reacting and trying to mantain good enougth time, but i would love to see a heaven game have angels at the side, because i think or see too many games with evil factions and when good factions are not necesarily good, would love to see a heaven game with heaven factions, figthing against evil, as angels vs demons
@@Krysnha I see. The angels in my game sorta justed ended up as the bad guys due to them being the second faction I created and the nature of the setting I had in mind. Or well, the angelic faction is "the Exiled" and basically the dregs of Heaven, and I wanted to make them both legitimately Exiled and those stranded in Hell, thus creating tension among them as they don't know who among them is a criminal of Heaven or a wayward soldier. This was also to make Heaven's armies not an actual faction from the get-go, both to hype up their power and keep the setting's focus in Hell. But I had to justify *why* angels would be present in Hell in the first place.
That fit in nicely with the idea I had of Sin and Virtue being tangible resources. Essentially, both can be created in Heaven and Hell equally by the actions of their denizens, and can be used for various magical purposes. Eventually (setting-wise, nigh immediately idea-wise) the status quo became that Heaven uses Hell as the dumping ground for any Sin it generates, and makes excursions to Hell to harvest Virtue and make sure no demon faction is strong enough to threaten Heaven. And I like the grimdark nature of how there are no shining beacons of hope in the setting, with the most "good guy" faction being the "victim" one.
@@Krysnha Looking at Solium Inferum I will say that the aesthetics will be very different. My factions each have an associated color and drastically different appearances. Combined with how each one has a preference for environment which they can actively influence and I would say it's closer to Warhammer than Solium.
Additionally my factions operate completely independently, and while they all are vying for power what that means can be drastically different between them. Some build empires, some stalk the wilderness between civilizations, and others are reclusive. And ideologically each faction has noticable differences as well, with any two demonic factions being just as different from each other as they are to the angelic faction.
@@vadandrumist1670 Sounds as an amaising setting, nice ideas
@@vadandrumist1670 nice, really good, is well better than solium in regards, yes, well now we have to wait
looking like they would rather ruin their own product than it be a success by appealing to the "wrong" people.
Around 1:02:13, I’m left with a conundrum.
The meta-Christ thing is weird because the construction is wrong. Christ is a title meaning “the anointed, the expected,” with an emphasis on the “the” in the sentence. You’d need a Greek prefix similar to “pseudo” to make it work.
The only sacrifices in the lore you’ve read out have been voluntary ones, making them strictly martyr-ings, not a “sacrifice” in the common English usage, which implies coercion of the offering. In a world where you have literal demons at your door, you have the biggest families you can and pray some of your young-uns are devote enough to be willing to be martyred for their family and Christendom by extension.
The weirdest part of the lore is that a sequence of Islamic empires had been squatting on top of this book and never read the (literally) damned thing, despite having higher literacy rates than the templars… THAT is probably supposed to be a jab at Christian’s but I’m not following the how of their avoidance and can’t come up with an idea beyond “templars stupid but capable of performing esoterica”
The stream donation notifications going off every 5 seconds eventually just makes this unwatchable
Cope
It's their IP and their failure.....
Interestingly, i have a transgender friend who is usually far more left leaning then i am and she was like "what the hell are those people on about? The setting is absolutely Manichaean, the church is absolutely on the right". So imagine the level of disillusion those people have to be in.
No Dev on sight...
Good stream.
Watching and liked.
Finishing the stream now, it's INCREDIBLY refreshing to watch archcast without Dev.
I'm serious, it's horrendous to have the stream with him. Get another co-host or just go solo, you are good enough at it Arch.
If you want to make a parallel community with out supporting the developer, you need to make stuff like models, fan rules and codex that people can used instead of the offical stuff. Look at Warhammer their plenty of 3rd party model that are just as good if not better then the offical stuff, alot are way cheaper if not free to 3d print. Even the Battketech people do this sense they are upset with the company. People who are good with 3d stuff need to flooding the 3d printing website with alternative models that are free or cheaper then the official stuff.
Archs description of humanity gave me a rod.