Kubota vs Kioti Hydraulic System-Definitely different.
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- Опубликовано: 4 фев 2024
- Doing a bit of real world operation between the two tractors doing some loader work.Nothing technical or fancy,just real world comparison and my personal preference.
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Hey Mike love your vids. I looked at a ck3510se last year and saw exactly what your pointing out here. Brought my new ck3520se home today. Night and day difference on splitting the functions in my opinion. They must have figured something out. Was a Kubota owner but once it was time to upgrade I could not spend more for less with them. They’ve gotten a little too proud of their product these days. -Taylor
Thats great!Hopefully they keep striving forward.Will they ever be as good as KUBOTA?time will tell.They are no slouch in the tractor world.Thanks for watching.
Same my 23 2620se I do rock work all day no issue better than my old new holland 😊
@@devshewitt4809 Hey,does the 2620se have pollution crap?
@@northeasterndirtandpropert7974 what are you talking about the regen system? If so no emissions on 2610 or 20
Update: Kioti must’ve updated the new 20 series because my CK2620 will do both curl and up/down with the front loader as smooth as butter. (Edit: as long as the RPM’s are above 1600) It does however still do the jerky motion up/down on the rear 3 point. Hope this helps some folks. As stated before former Kubota and Deere owner also.
I have driven Kubota, and as you say the dual movement is smooth, which for your case is fine. However, for equivalent models Kioti can lift large logs whereas Kubota fails. I just want to lift a log off the ground and transport it, not do the swan ballet with it. I'd probably go with a blower for snow anyhow.
For the nearly $10k I saved on my Kioti CK2620 cab vs a comparable Kubota LX series or Deere 3 series I can live with the slower hydraulics. I’ve owned a Kubota, Deere, and now Kioti and I like them all but when it comes to lift capacity the Kioti puts the other two comparable sized tractors to shame. For a homeowner who owns a few acres or a small homestead a Kioti is a great tractor based on cost but if I were in a professional business where my butt was in the cab most of the day then I could make a case for the extra cost of the Kubota. Just my thoughts on this.
Can't blame you for going Kioti.Thanks for watching.
I just priced both models and they're actually exactly the same price at about 28 to 29000 depending on which dealer you get it from
Good video to help you sell the kubota and keep the kioti. I have nothing but respect for kubota and was seriously going to buy a used/new one but couldn't pull the trigger on one for over a year (was at the dealer more than once). Discovered kioti and bought a kioti ck2620 in a week cuz i knew the kubota numbers inside and out. No regrets.
Yea I’ve used both and I’ve definitely noticed it do you think Is it the loader valve Kioti used that creates this issue or something deeper
Great video. Seems that machines days are numbered on your property. Any major work lined up for the summer/spring? We just moved down to Port Stanley from Angus, ON. Hoping to get some work down this way.
Really what it comes down to with me.I enjoy operating,and buying and selling equipment.KIOTI is definitely closing the gap between themselves and KUBOTA and DEERE.So i figure I may as well see how they truly operate and hold together.Work?Work is everywhere,you gotta constantly chase it,put yourself out there,advertise steady,get into those coffee shops,vehicle signage,make yourself noticeable or people will forget about you in an area.Hard work and determination got me further than anything else.Thanks for watching and commenting.
Nice video Mike. There are lots of potential tractor buyers out there that don't know that there might be a difference like this between tractors. I hope lots of people get to see your video before they make a decision.
Thanks.Just a video comparing 2 tractor brands.Obviously,some people are not happy with the results.Thats unfortunate.I just happen to have both at home here.Thanks for commenting.
Seems like on the kubota you raise it and then dump so not really 2 functions at the same time
Watch the bucket roll and boom at the same time all thru the demo.I tried to be as unbiased and ran both machines at 1800 RPM where both machines have more than adequite flow and engine RPM to do most loader applications.thanks for watching.
I’m seeing the same thing. Two different styles being used when using the loader.
@@TM-jl1zd if in doubt,try one out.I only present what KIOTI engineers.
Probably the different geometry between the 2 loaders but after watching this comparison a few times (I've also watched part 2), I have to agree that you are using slightly different techniques when dumping-the kubota slows down when lifting dumping also, and then you stop lifting and complete your dump quickly on kubota whereas on the kioti you continue to lift and dump at the same time. But having said that I wouldn't give up my extra ~1,000lbs (+/-) lifting capability on the KL4030C fel vs kubota. But then again I never have to worry about plowing snow either!
@@7M-7 Thanks for watching and accessing the videos.But again,i don't engineer hydraulics for KIOTI,i just present the facts as stated during operationAND quoted in the KIOTI owners manual.Both are good tractors,one is just superior in the hydraulic engineering dept.Kubota,known for well engineered Hyd,enginneering,resale,uptime,fit and finish.I own them both,I like them both.Thanks for watching and commenting.
I believe you should be running about 2200 RPM on the new Kioti’s
Work out a wee bit, and you will find that sweet spot where you can curl and dump real quick. One thing I like about the coyote, you can certainly lift a little bit more more weight than you can with the Kubota.
Not only lift more,but a heavier tractor overall,at a more affordable price for the machine.But in the end,everybody should demo the tractors,and make an informed decision on what suits there needs best.Tractor companies can't afford too many mistakes these days,they won't last.
You need to rum kioti at a higher rpm and it works great... from the sound on your video it sounds like you are running the Kubota at a higher rpm...
Kubota also costs more so it makes sense as typically you get what you pay for. Personally I have a CK 2620 and I love it no complaints. It has done everything I’ve asked of it and then some
Good to know. I guess that one replaced the 2610 with the 4030 loader. May I asked what you paid and what implements you got?
@@MrCPPG Yes it replaced the 2610. I got mine about a year ago for $23,500 out the door with the loader at 0% interest. I have pallet forks, a stump bucket and a TR3 rake at the moment. Looking into a stump grinder and grapple next.
I want a cab, but don’t know if I can part with the l2501. Damn good work horse tractor. Positive my kids will inherit it in good working order if I hang on to her, but the tym and kioti cabs look nice for about what she’s worth…
That was some fantastic visual proof of the differences. I guess it all boils down to what you need and what makes you happy. I guess you needed a cab more than super smooth hydraulics. I guess if 10 - 15K means nothing to you then you can have both in the Kubota.
Unfortunately 2 tractors is just not cost effective around here.BUT,you never know whats gonna roll in and out of my shop.And honestly,here in Canada 10-15 thousand ain't getting you much size or something thats not clapped out.Hobby tractors just ain't cheap.What is.Thanks for watching and commenting.
Do they both have the same gpm? or does the kubota have larger capacity, helping the two circuits happen at the same time. I prefer my komatsu wheel loader to any farm tractor. or any of my skidsteers. visability and hydraulic capacity makes any conventional tractor sad.
KIOTI on paper puts out more flow.GPM would make NO difference in this case.It would make hydraulics happen faster,but you still lose the ability to do two functions at once.That comes into manifold and valving stack arrangement.With KIOTI,the loader gets priority and the roll in the bucket gets secondary flow,or whatever the circuit can feed it while the loader is going up cons uming the bulk of the flow.Thanks for commenting
Just subscribed and enjoying your content. I have a new 2023 Kioti 2620 hst open station and Im coming from a Kubota b1700 from 1999. The Kubota definitely has refined hydraulics but mine doesn't seem as big of a difference as your video. My rear hydraulics on the Kioti does the same as yours and reading up on it from different sources that jerkiness is normal for Kioti's and is called step hydraulics whatever that means. Everyone says to raise fast and then lower where you want it. Overall I'm satisfied with the Kioti. I find higher rpms works better for loader work and using the 2 functions at the same time.
Higher RPM's definitely makes a difference in flow rates to a point.BUT,I'm a big fan of adjusting RPM's to the task at hand.High RPM's cause excessive fuel burn,premature engine wear and in the end,overall its costing you more money to operate.It will still not change the priority vs secondary valving in the hyd stack,that never changes.Thanks for watching and commenting.
I've owned two Kioti tractor so far, a subcompact CS series and currently a DK 5320se cab. When I upgraded I looked hard at a Kubota and did lots of test driving different brands. Kubota tractors DO have smoother hydraulics overall. I operate a construction grade wheel loader at my everyday job and the hydraulics on it are better than Kubota's as well. So there are always better options out there. However, in order to get the same lift capacity in a Kubota that I get with my Kioti, I needed to go all the way up to an MX series tractor. That thing is WAY too big for what I do. The DK series hydraulics is better than my CS series tractor was though as far as smoothness and ability to do two functions at the same time. I do agree with you though, Kubota's hydraulics are better than ANY of the other tractor brands I tested and I tested them all. Great video you put out showing this obvious difference in performance.
I agree.thats why the video was based on function and not lifting capacity,tractor weight and so forth.Kioti Has a lot to offer a tractor owner,I see it.Watch the next video,and i will reveal a couple small notes on the KIOTI that i have not mentioned.I want ALL the comments to roll in before I reveal a smackdown on any doubters out there on my testing and performance between the two.Thanks for commenting,I like hearing from operators who actually put there hands on other brands.Thanks
@northeasterndirtandpropert7974 oh ya brother! There are lots of different views and applications for each person. I do appreciate your point in this video though. It's accurate from my point of view. Subbed to see more
My NX5010HST doesn't have this problem. Maybe it's because of the higher flow rate on the NX chassis.
I would think it’s everything to do with flow rate, also perhaps speed is also sacrificed for additional lift capacity as well.
That’s why people shouldn’t get all dead set on which lifts more because it’s not going to matter much if the one that lifts a Little less lifts twice as fast.
@@jacobhendrickson8935 That's a very good point !
I think this is the case with many brands in some ways to a degree more or less two functions at once is robbing from the other . I find it to be so on my 753 skidsteer
Hello there my name is Arthur hemstreet and I was wondering how much you were selling the Kubota and were are you located at
Sold.
Likely flow rate related. Realistically tractors area all slow. If you need speed and production you need a backhoe or a skid loader
To anybody who is saying the kioti are significantly less than the Kubota you are wrong. I got multiple prices on both cab models kioti CK 2620 and the Kubota LX 2620. The Kubota actually came out cheaper at $28,500 and the kioti was $29,600 therefore the Kubota was actually cheaper. I have the paperwork right here to prove it.
I guess it depends on the dealership.When i compared equivalent models,KIOTI was substancially cheaper.I don't doubt your pricing for a minute,dealerships are all over the place.Personally,i would buy the KUBOTA.
I've noticed that too and it is going to be dealer dependent but it does seem the price gap between the two brands is not what it use to be. Kioti still seems to be cheaper but not as much as it use to be, not like TYM or LS cheaper. It seems like their popularity increasing has also caused their pricing to increase.
@@brianlb78 Kioti is definitely gaining ground.Along with that,comes the ability in the mindset of the company to jack up pricing.Kioti would be my second choice after bypassing Kubota.they make a good tractor and a great warranty.
I like the smoothness and dual functionality of the Kabota. Definitely helps justify the higher cost of a Kabota.
The difference in cost I bet would be minimal to design the kioti circuit to deliver a little more flow to the secondary function.Every tractor manufactire has multiple hydraulic engineers in R@D that work on these circuits in design phase.Kioti in my opinion is just taking the easy,simplistic,way out.Just my opinion.
There is a substantial difference in price. When I was shopping, it was almost 9k difference, less warranty and features on the kubota.
@@northeasterndirtandpropert7974 It may have been a compromise to increase capacity in a single function. Some folks prefer to lift a bigger log even if it is a little jerky without going up in class of tractor. You should get rid of the Kioti rather than bitch about it. I definitely won't buy a Kubota like my brother. Lousy dealer, lousy factory customer treatment.
@@MrCPPG I just state the facts as engineered by KIOTI.Don't let the reveal from the owners manual sway you from purchasing a KIOTI,they are good machines.Every one has different needs.
Is there a point in the future¿
Did you buy a KIOTI?
I can vouch for this. I own a kioti ck3510 hst and had to backfill a septic tank/leach field just recently. The curl on the bucket was so slow when lifting and lowering the loader.
But for the most part... im not moving that much dirt, and that project was a rare occasion.
Exactly my point.For the average hobby farm,or home owner these tractors are great.Not until you really need to do all day loader work does it become an issue.Thanks for watching
Apples and an Orange!! Love oranges!!!
There's only one REAL orange,everyone else is chasing it.
What's re sale like on kioti curious if you were to trade up on one of the top 3 tractors i.e kabuta,deere or massy do they give decent value.
@@corycanada97 There resale is pretty reasonable.Definitely way better than the more obscure brands.Again,solely based on parts and dealer networking and quality of build.Most KIOTI dealerships I see in Ontario have been around several years and seem to have fairly good success.All my opinion.Thanks for watching.
just wait . by july all that snow will be gone
the hydros are to be ran at WOT on the kioti.....
Why of all diesel powered equipent that ive owned and ran,is the Kioti the ONLY one to run or supposed to run WOT?What in the hydraulic system is different that requires this?Im interested.
Good information
Thanks,some people may not like it,but its handy to know.Thanks for watching
kioti tractors put a limiting value on dump and down movement of loader . safety feature so that it doesn't come down on you.
That’s a terrible safety feature or excuse…it is very important for it to get to the ground as fast as you can specifically for safety. In case your load shifts or you get tippy for one reason or another you anticipate that loader on the ground asap…one to lower center of gravity but also to stabilize yourself. Hugely important making that a very nit safety feature.
Could it just be the difference in pump specs where the kioti pump is less GPM making the split function slower??
Definitely pump volume is the big deal when comparing unequal systems.BUT,in the case of KIOTI,the spec sheets will tell you it puts out more GPM.KUBOTA is the loser in the GPM category here.But its what KUBOTA does with there flow in the system thats the difference.Kubota knows where and when to utilize max flow to each valve.Kioti hasn't got there yet on this particular tractor.WHY?i have my own personal opinion on this.Thanks for commenting and watching.
@@northeasterndirtandpropert7974 oh wow yea the Kubota has gotta be just way more defined. If I was you I’d sell the Kioti and keep the Kubota. Ain’t there a aftermarket cab you can get for it?? Or better yet sell both and get a used Kubota with a cab.
I have an old 88 Kubota L2850, and I love that thing.
your comparing apples to oranges !!
Are we talking quality,Price,engineering,capability?
Wow, That's 2x faster than if not more than the Kioti. I'm impressed.
It really is.I was trying hard to run both machines alike.The KIOTI just falls short.AND I will show the viewership Proof right shortly as to why.Thanks for watching
I agree with you on the Kioti hydraulics being sluggish.
I've compared the tractors side by side several times on paper and the specs point to Kioti outperforming the Kubota, but in running them both I can work circles around the Kioti with the Kubota due to the fast hydraulic response and the increased smoothness of the controls. I can say I've noticed the same thing on the hydrostatic drive as well. When grading my road with a Kubota I switched half way through the job to my neighbors Kioti and it felt like a slug in comparison to my Kubota. The drive system feels so unresponsive and sluggish in comparison. When pulling hard up hills the transmission felt like it was overwhelmed and it would simply run out of power and felt like it was going to relieve before it would break traction and it would just quit moving foward...
My Kubota will pull and pull and if you don't pay attention grading up the hills you could really dig in the tires and spin out. To me It feels like there's so much more hydraulic power provided to the drive train on the Kubota in comparison. The Kioti is an impressive machine but when operating one I can't wait to get off it and get back on my Kubota.
If I was doing production type work like building a new lawn/ landscape around a new house I could work circles around the Kioti that I've operated with my Kubota.
For the extra features and lifting capacity you get for less money with the Kioti it would probably be the better choice for some but for me I'm too accustom to the faster hydraulics to make the switch. I would find this very frustrating if I traded to a Kioti even though you get more tractor.
Very true.Like I said,instantly noticed the difference between the two after operating the Kubota.I'm not sure if it's in the newer models,but KIOTI should do the engineering and make the changes required to put the flow where it is required.Thanks for commenting.
Just bought a 2502. Its definitely very smooth.
And dependable,and tough.
I don’t like the hydrostatic pedal on the Kubota and the paint is low quality, fades to quick,I don’t want either tractor , I’ll take Massey over both
Well,I can't help you with the peddle,but certainly Kubota paint lasts many years if the machinery is taken care of.That means proper storage,unless your rich and don't care.Massey makes good stuff,owned several over the years.
I wouldn't buy either tractor i farm for a living the newest tractor i got is a 2003 belarus the new tractors dont hold up and the old ones got no deff or computer every body i know says the old ones are best just my opinion
Old tractors definitely hold up.The biggest problems on any newer tractors with any reasonable farming horsepower are Emmisions.The corporations got you by the balls.They own proprietary programs only to be accessed thru dealer netwoking.Its no different with my excavators,any computer issue,or DPF issue,Im screwed.John Deere vs. the farmers is one of the biggest right to repair issues around.But the hobby class tractors we deal with are top sellers vs farm tractors and pretty much dominate the tractor classes.Less farmers,more people playing in the garden.They got it all ass backwards.Thanks for watching!
You got that right
there is no computer or DEF on the L2501 it is just like a 30 year old tractor because it is under 26hp and does not have the emissions restrictions. All of the bigger L series tractors have the emissions controls and DPF filters. The nice thing about the L2501 is the engine is way derated and can be tuned up to about 35hp with some tweaking of the injection pump. If you are in the market for a new tractor I would go to a Kubota dealer and look and the l2501.
@@anthonysimpson2847 That was the base Kubota in the FEL operation.L2501 vs Kioti 3510SE.Both good tractors,just one is engineered a bit differently.
Kioti is a waaaaay better machine!! Kubota, Deere, Mahendra ect all waaaaaaaaay over rated!!
Okay.
I agree kubota is way better on the valves. Its what drove me away from kioti and back to Kubota on my last tractor purchase.
I would'nt hesitate to buy a KIOTI as a hobby farmer or general around the woodlot tractor,not at all.But for everyday production work,especially if you have a business and employees,I would go straight to Kubota.They can take all you can give them.
Kubota, Kioti…., you wouldn’t buy either one if you could afford a John Deere. End of story.
Thats the mentality that Im trying to avoid.I've got an open mind and don't mind trying out another brand.As long as its name brand and holds its value,I don't mind giving it a go.Thanks for commenting.
Nope
😂 ignorant comment.
I've ran kabota and John Deere and definitely preferred kabota.
@@ronaldferino3414 Everybody has there preference.Lots of brand loyalty out there.Japanese seemed to always put out a good,well engineered product.Thanks for watching