How can she say 'the bible does not change'? They had literal councils of chrisitian bishops that got together to decide what parts to keep and what parts to toss.
Many hate when you bring up the mistranslated things and things like what you said. They think it's the perfect book and has zero flaws even tho there are mistranslated parts, and missing books in it. I think most of them don't want to accept it's been messed with and things through the years just because they're stubborn and want to hate and the current book gives them an excuse to.
The Bible changed so much the Torah only ever said abusing children was the sin and that got changed into man should not lie with another man because the translators didn't want to lose their pederasty back then. Sodom and Gomorrah is such a strange word of warning when the three sins was animals, incest and then children got changed to just male homosexuality specifically, and no fundamental "Christian" seems to call attention to it.
@@jasonpickles2576 That doesn't really matter. They changed the content, in some cases some things that changed might just have been updated language so that people would actually understand what they were reading. So the Bible changed, regardless how recent a change was.
@animefanka Yeah, as an ex-catholic as well, now independent christian, I feel like it would be a positive experience for people, if all bigger churches collapsed and people started their own spiritual trip
Her saying that debate should be civil is yet another instance of her being hypocritical becasue of the few debates I've seen her in she was not civil whatsoever
i've seen my very existence debated with "civility" too many times. most calls for "civil debate" are feeble, pathetic and disgustingly insincere. then at the end you and your debate partner lick each other's assholes over how civil you were and get exactly nothing done.
“Queer people weren’t in the bible” NEITHER WERE PENCILS, SUSAN -i didn't do my homework okay im sorry i didnt know there were a bunch of gay people in the bible-
"The bible doesn't change" oh I think it does. The language of Jesus would have been Aramaic, then it would have been in Hebrew, then coming through Greek, then Latin, across the middle languages into multiple generations of English (I assume Gothix is using English). And then when you are looking at versions, King James had it rewritten to fit his own needs which has clear differences to other versions you can still find eg. English Standard. The bible has gone through a big game of telephone and everyone who has passed along the message has put their own opinions into it.
That's why a lot of it seems so controversial to the idea of spreading "love and kindness" and passages go against the idea of an unconditionally loving god. (That's mostly what I thought anyway, but thank you for clarifying it in better terms that are more easily understandable!)
Lol an obvious Christian older lady was in the store I work in and was buying a Bible for her granddaughter. They were talking about it and the lady says it used to be written in another language before it got translated to English, but couldn't remember what language. Me, who is currently agnostic by admittedly use to go to church until 2013ish, said "I think it was Aramaic."
A “doctor” suggested my sister undergo electroshock therapy for her depression/anxiety. It left her with severe memory loss issues. Our mental healthcare system is fucked up.
Okay so modern ECT isnt wild convulsions. The person is under anaesthesia and its light voltage. And yes a side effect is memory loss and temporary difficulty with learning as the brain does run on electrochemical impulses . However Im going to assume the doctor did not inform you guys of that! At all!
@@maem7462 Modern ECT is much like modern psychosurgery Should only be done as a last resort when the patient hasnt responded to anything else. Like literally nothing else works and the mental health issue is causing such a negative impact on life you cannot just leave it be. You dont just chuck someone into ECT for depression (and not for anxiety!) without having tried therapy and medications first. And then going through all the different medications and trying different dosages. And the various therapies that the patient may respond to. I sincerely doubt the... Ethics of those who go: Yea lets just put patients under anaesthesia (which has its own multiple risks) and use ECT, heck all the other things. especially if the patient is under... 18
My christian therapist is currently working with doctors to get me HRT at the moment and supports me whole heartedly and has helped dozens of others just like me, therapist’s should never bring their own religious opinions into their practice and those who do should lose their license
I think it’s one thing for doctors to recommend the care of another doctor to do non-emergency care that they are not comfortable doing, but they should never be allowed to shame you for your decisions or prevent you from learning about or accessing them. I’m so glad you found a great doctor!
The gender-clinic that I'm at (and once was the very first gender-clinic treating children in the world, beginning of the 1990's) is situated in a hospital that had it's origins in medical care for people who were Catholic... Sometimes, when people want to use religion as an excuse I like to throw that in their face because they would consider that the ultimate of evils they could think of: a Catholic hospital providing that type of care (even though their Catholic exception to treating Catholic patients only stopped being a thing in the 1970's I think).
If I had to guess with these kinds of people: "You're using/reading it incorrectly" = "Your interpretation is invalid just because it doesn't match mine"
@Jason Pickles Bothsideism when conservative politicians frequently use misinterpretions of their favorite bible passages as justification for destroying people's lives with asinine laws that no one asked for. Alrighty.
Hoping someday we get a 40+minute video debunking alpha male/incel rhetoric like the “women dont like men who cry” lie or the “women dont like men who wear dresses and makeup” lie
I was just on the phone with my female best friend of 18 years and her other also female friend. She's going through a breakup and we were discussing the "Only emotion men are allowed to express is anger" thing and they both started talking about how a man who is comfortable crying and actually fkin' apologizing is sexy as hell. I'm an ace, I didn't veer the conversation this way, they both just started talking about how men who are actually emotionally mature are sexy. Men out there trying to act like John Wayne, stop, it only hurts you and your relationships. Most normal women don't want some emotionless machine of a man, they want someone they can freaking talk to and connect with ffs.
@@edwardzignot2681 yea its crazy bc so many men will agree with us that anger and stoicism are the only feelings men are allowed to feel, but the problem is they think women are the the only ones perpetuating that, I remember a this one dudebro type guy reacting to a video called “questions women have for men” (on buzzfeed I think). One of the questions was “why dont men allow themselves to cry? It makes you human” and the guy reacting said “men dont cry because when we do, we get made fun of…BY WOMEN!” & all the comments consisted of misinformed men saying “women always want us to cry and express our emotions, but the second us men cry and open up about things that make us sad, no women women wanna date us and were single forever” It not only sucks how many men physically and emotionally drain themselves just to attract women when they’d have a better chance by being themselves and treating women like people, but these guys will hear THOUSANDS of women saying “we like xyz be yourself” and claim they’re lying, but the second they hear one pick me girl say “nah if my man cries, doesn’t have other women trying to get with him, or feels scared when dangerous people or animals attack us, I’m leaving him” the guys are like “SEE I TOLD YOU ALL WOMEN WANT ALPHA MALES ITS BIOLOGYYYY” Sad times were living in but people like Kiwi, Annamarie Forcino, Sam collins, etc are turning men to the light, I know cause I’m one of them
I feel like it needs to be more clearly established - emotional control is a fantastic trait in anyone. Being able to suppress emotional reactions in a dire situation, or to avoid triggering those more emotionally vulnerable around you, is a trait that everyone should have and should be encouraged to have. However, we have men taking it to the extreme on both sides. Men thinking that anger is the only valid emotion on one end, and on the other, men who think that they can behave like emotionally stunted man-children just because we say "it's okay to feel emotions other than anger".
She unfortunately reminds me of a coworker I have who is an old school goth with a lot of racist and transphobic beliefs. I've had conversations with this coworker where she would claim "they/them as a singular pronoun doesn't make sense grammatically so I won't use it" and then IMMEDIATELY used "they" to refer to a trans woman because she doesn't think trans women are women but recognizes that she wasn't a man and thus used a ""grammaticality incorrect"" neutral pronoun instead as a compromise. Really disappointing to see folks taint a community I've so lovingly been a part of since my teen years
@@meowwsus That’s exactly what a gatekeeper would say lmfao. People can’t enjoy a certain style of art or fashion because they disagree with you on stupid modern culture war problems, got it. I can see why gothix’s bible thumping would conflict with gothic style on a foundational level, but subcultures are not monoliths on every specific social dilemma. If they were, then they would all be no-true-scots circklejerks akin to organized religions or political parties
An old school goth is tainting the community? But old school by definition means they’ve been a part of the subculture for a long time (likely she had the same views back then). So your comment doesn’t make sense. I think you’re lying for clout.
I literally used to be a conservative goth. Basically my mom was cool with me dressing however I wanted as long as I wasn’t being mean about it. The catch was my parents believed in TONS of conservative Christian beliefs so if I wanted freedom in how I looked I had to act like them. Obviously at the time I just thought ‘that’s how people are supposed to act’. now that I’m out of that brainwashing station, I can proudly say I’m a Socialist Goth 🖤
They also seem to conveniently forget that Jesus very openly did not agree with religion and was not promoting Christianity, but redemption through god and accepting peace and love. The bible says Love thy neighbor, not convert them with physical and psychological force🙄 Jesus isn't political he's a neutral humanitarian, objectivevly single chromosome demi god that was the first hippie to say " hey maybe war and sacrefice isn't good?
the actual person jesus was litterally jewish and tried to change the religion bc he thought there were some hols that could be fixed. but everyone just made a whole new religion around him-
@@dollyrex Not to mention that the reason he decried the accumulation of wealth was because he viewed it as a distraction from living a holy life and while he encouraged the people to help the downtrodden, that was mostly because he believed that the end times were neigh. As Spencer McDaniel from Tales Of Times Forgotten put it, sure Jesus advocated for some things that might be perceived as socialist, his reasoning was different.
Yep, agreeing as a Christian! When Jesus went to the temple and there were Stallholders at the entrance trying to commercialise it, he scattered and overturned everything. Jesus removed the barriers for people seeking God. Jesus was and is concerned with the purity of worship, not merely religion. My aim is to emulate his love and grace and I hope you encounter Christians who truly represent Him :)
Yep, agreeing as a Christian! When Jesus went to the temple and there were Stallholders at the entrance trying to commercialise it, he scattered and overturned everything. Jesus removed the barriers for people seeking God. Jesus was and is concerned with the purity of worship, not merely religion. My aim is to emulate his love and grace and I hope you encounter Christians who truly represent Him :)
@opposum1114 And many of the followers of the religion in question use it to justify some of the worse crimes humanity has done and will do. I don't see Jesus as flawed, but I see Christianity as flawed.
I do not hate Christians, most of my family are devoted Christians but when you come to someone who doesnt have the same faith and push past set boundaries and actively ignore their boundaries to spread the word of your faith , thats crossing the line and thats what frustrates non-Christians . I know not all Christians are like this , i mean those who dont take "no" " not interested " seriously . I honestly like how the lgbtq+ is coming into the churches, because i have heard to much stories about Christian lgbtq+ being discriminated , hated on and judged by other Christians .
This is a huge reason I went no contact with my mother. I am not a Christian, have zero interest in Christianity, and will never be a Christian. I’m actually a pagan, and she knows this. I don’t bring my religion up to her because it would be WW3, but she had no issues with preaching to me every single time I was on the phone with her. My boundaries in general meant nothing to her, but the preaching got fvcking beyond old.
@@auggiet8380 as a fellow pagan i understand how frustrating that is , i am just grateful I made clear boundaries with my Christian family and so far have respected them
I’ve had exorcisms/faith healing attempts forced on me by random strangers on public… because ‘god put it on my heart to reach out to you. I know you are hurting and suffering.’ I’m not, but I’m a metalhead who wears a lot of black. I’ve been through a lot in my life but I’ve been stable for years. I actually was miserable when I was in a christian/catholic school. But they look at me and assume it’s ok to try and cast out some sort of demon I don’t have.
@jakes4164 my mind is as open as the sun is hot , that doesnt stop or change what I said or feel . Claiming someone doesnt have a open mind without an attempt of understanding where Im coming from is just sad
Capitalism didn’t become a concept up until 200 years ago Socialism has been around as far as 5 AD with China being the earliest examples So given one is significantly older than the other but hasn’t had as nearly drastic effect on poverty and lifting people out of it, tells me enough about the system
I can't tell if this comment is saying "boo socialism" or."boo capitalism" even after reading it thrice. Capitalism overall has caused more misery tho.
Goth is a music-based subculture. Goths sure have other shared values and characteristics, but that's the basis. And if that's her style, she likes it and feels good in and about it, I'm happy for her. Personal style is also an explorative and individual journey. Criticizing her for her content, yea, but shaming her for her appearance is really not the way to go...
@@michi9866Yes! You can call yourself goth if you're a fan of the music. No need to have a specific clothing style (even the people from the bands don't always have an extravagant style). Unfortunately the mainstream thinks it's just about fashion, or some dark interests and aesthetics, it has been like that for many years.
careful about calling her “conservative” Savannah, she’ll soon be screeching to you about how she’s “politically homeless” (a conservative that doesn’t understand what words mean)
I think you are doing a pretty good job of pushing your agenda. My view on humanity changed pretty drastically while listening to you. I used to be very ignorant to a lot of things, and I had misanthropic views too. I never verbally attacked people because I'm an introvert and confrontational conversation is scary, but my thoughts went into dark places, which made me miserable too. I'm still not an overly empathetic person, but it has gotten so much better. I changed a lot of my views and it made me happier too. So, thanks for that.
@@sparklinginfinity2887 Hey, well, I grew up in a very rural place, and I hate to say it, but we have a lot of bigots here. You know, they frequently use slurs and all that, and you can imagine, growing up like that, it influences you. Through peer pressure, I started to participate in bullying this one girl because she had strong acne. (However, we later became friends for a while, and there was no bad blood between us in the end.) However, people started to gang up on me eventually. One other girl spread the rumor I was lesbian. Which was false, but she was jealous that I was good friends with these other people. (We were in 7th grade, btw and up until I was 17, I had no idea what "lesbian" even meant, it was just not talked about) Instead of asking me if I was lesbian, they just told me they couldn't be friends with "someone like me." I switched classes eventually and got another friend group. But, when we got a new girl in class, I was cast aside again. There was also some bullying because I didn't believe in God. So they concluded I must be a Satanist and give BJs to Satan (8th grade, btw). Anyhow, those experiences made me pretty bitter, and I didn't want to participate in anything anymore. For years I didn't have friends. Basically, any contact with people from school vanished. I got into a toxic relationship which didn't help. I was in it for over a year, and while he didn't physically abuse me, he made me more and more uncomfortable. He took drugs and drank a lot, too, both things I don't like. We had more than once the police called. I started to imagine how much damage I could do with one knife (on other people, I don't live in the US, so access to guns was thankfully not given). I started to be so hateful to anyone. Why was everyone so annoying? My misanthropic worldview wasn't helped when I heard the people in my town always complain about the "damn refugees." And "Those damn immigrants ruin everything." All this toxic bullshit. But then Corona hit, and I stumbled upon Kiwi while I was pretty sick. I think it was a video about That Vegan Teacher? In general, this was when I found many RUclipsrs I watch today (One Topic, TheClick, Jammidodger, Sam Collins). All of them not only helped me to adjust my world views, but they also helped me figure stuff out about my gender identity. Figuring this stuff out made me realize why I was so unhappy. It made me realize why I hated being called anything with "girl" in it. (I used to despise it when older men called me "young lady/pretty lady" because I'm not.) I figured out why I just couldn't be "like everyone else." I'm aroace, and people always told me I must have a relationship to be happy. A relationship and kids. When I learned what Asexuality was, I realized that I'm not some unnormal freak. Kiwi talked a lot about topics that affected me in some way, so it helped a lot to get a different view of them. I started to question myself if Topic X/Y was really a problem or just an artificial one because people were uninformed bigots? Most of the time, it was the latter. Because the town I live in is full of old geezers that spew so much nonsense while drinking entire beer crates in one go. I also talked to my mom about stuff that was going on and that I didn't want to have a partner or children, and she told me it's okay. Just because she wanted children doesn't mean I have to have them. This helped too. I also got some online friends that I treasure. I plan to visit this one guy, but he lives in the UK, so it is a bit complicated to just fly over. I also made friends with someone else, and visiting her is what I look forward to all year. She's lesbian, and we did talk about our different experiences. This helped me too. I still sometimes struggle with overly pessimistic views, especially when my mood is really bad. But I have gotten so much better, and those phases are not as frequent anymore and much shorter. I am thankful for that. I also started to call out various racist or homophobic things that they said. (Their main argument for being racist/phobic is, "They can't hear us, so it's okay to say stuff like that.") Anyhow, I still have a lot in front of me, but I want to get rid of my stupid, pessimistic mindset. I don't want to be like I used to be, but getting 25 years of this mindset out of my system is challenging. But I will keep trying to better myself.
ngl ur comment made me tear up a bit :( i’m so glad that ur happier now, & i’m glad u were able to figure things out for yourself. i hope things only get better for u!
It's sad that there are people who need a book or someone else to tell them how to be moral or what values they should have and yet still get it so wrong. As someone who grew up in the church, I didn't have good values growing up because despite what I was taught, I'd see the hypocrisy from within and understood that to mean that that's how it was supposed to be. You could do shitty things but as long as you asked for forgiveness, you're morally balanced. People who hide behind that book can do whatever and they'll be protected by that institution in the name of God and forgiveness. It wasn't until I broke away from that, did I actually learn what it meant to be a good, loving and accepting person. I've never known anything but harm and dysfunction from religion and I look at my peers who grew up with me in the church and it was just as awful, if not worse for them. So no, I'd rather think for myself and understand the world around me to form my own values based on empathy. Not what an outdated text tells me.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I personally don’t like the church and putting that on children at a young age, it allows for a twisted faith that nobody in that organization can recognize.
I had friends who were trump supporters in high school mainly cuz of gun rights stuff which I was like um ok… until I started learning about more of what he’s done and cut off that whole friend group 💀 it’s good too cuz one of them genuinely tried justifying incest and was against migrants coming into the US n wouldn’t do yoga because that’s how Christian she was
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 Can't get much lower than we already are except complete societal breakdown. Part of me would see that as a cleansing fire, but most people are not prepared for that, and a lot of innocents would be hurt or killed. I'd read that apocalyptic novel, though.
I had horrible friends in high-school. Because I didn't really have much choice. Because of financial issues I went to free program to go to high-school in Israel. (Due to Jewish heritage). And everyone in the school was completely fine going to Israeli army ("it's called 'defence force' so they can't be the oppressors"). Most of them excited and eager to kill some Arabs. (Wanted combative roles). Only like one guy was like "I don't really want to go, but I'm not gonna do anything to avoid it" And I have been told kibbutzim are more progressive.
These people love to use the term "Social justice" instead of "human rights" in order to dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them. But it kind of kicked them where it hurts because they're admitting that they're being socially unjust lol
They do the same with “woke”. It’s lost every ounce of its original meaning (the one from many, many decades ago) because these people love to use it as an end-all term to discredit anyone who makes valid points. The second that people start screaming “WOKE BAD, SOCIAL JUSTICE GRRR” is the second that you can tell that they know that their side has no real argument or factual base. It reminds me of people who don’t want to teach science/history to kids because they believe it’s “liberal agenda”. Like, you literally just admitted that you’re against education because it makes it harder to indoctrinate your kids into your weird ass beliefs..
This reminds me of something from a class I took. The teacher read a poem and the guys were weirded out and the women in the room had to correct them because the author was a woman and was written about a woman's love/lust. They needed that perspective to understand the poem because they didn't understand it the first time they read it. In ancient Egypt the writers were mostly women but they assumed it was a male author because historical literature is a male dominated field. But it was funny because the teacher then explained how common women authors were in history and the men in class learned about the clitoris. Literature can be interpreted in different ways because of different perspectives. Like art, the bible can be interpreted in different ways. Good people use it to do good and be good and bad people use it to justify they shit behavior and hate.
I actually had a full conversation with my dad (he's an ordained pastor and has a doctorate in the Bible) about how heaven is literally socialism. He agreed, but said he thinks capitalism is the best choice for Earth. (I don't agree, for numerous reasons) I genuinely don't understand how Christians don't see that Jesus would be a socialist. Yes he did say pay your taxes, but that was "to give back to Ceasar what belongs to him." Jesus preached that we do not need material belongings, which is the opposite of what capitalism encourages. If you look at the early church, it was small communities who shared their wealth. I'm not saying that this would work on a larger scale, but there is a way to integrate socialism to our current society in small ways.
I'd love to have a talk with you at a café or something over this, lol. As someone who became agnostic out of disillusionment, people like you reignite my interest & passion for Christianity.
@@spaghetto9836 Thank you! That's such a big compliment! I'm not sure if I'd be the best person to talk to tho, since my understanding of Christianity is still very base level. I'm planning on researching more when I'm doing better mentally, but I'm glad that what I said is having a positive impact :) (even if you stay agnostic)
Same, as a goth, whenever I see her I think "I don't wanna be in the same community with a person like that.". but she's probably not even goth, goth's a music based subculture, and she probably doesn't even know goth music exists
Anyone who uses their religion to hate others… does not understand that they are making themselves AND their religion look terrible. Who would want to hate others so much that they are willing to make their own religion look awful? I would rather love than hate and so far… Christianity is full of hate and I want nothing to do with it. I used to be a Christian but then I would just hear people be scared and hateful all the time. Like nah… I’m good. And I’ve never been better. I just want to be happy and to love everyone. I want everyone to just love. Fell compassion. Feel empathy. Feel acceptance. Be nice and just simply respect people. I whole heartedly believe this world would be so much better.
Rev Left Radio recently did a podcast episode on early christianity. His movement was not really something I would describe as socialist. The conditions for socialism did not exist back then, so it would not be possible anyway. Trying to imagine what his ideology would be in the current context is unhelpful I think, because he would be a different person.
"the gospel doesn't change, it's an anchor for people and their moral compass" Right, and that's a bad thing, you see that right? Morality shouldn't be inflexible and never changing unless you think the world is perfect right now
Plus, it's a metaphor for how Conservative Christianity is hindering society. It's literally _dragging society down and drowning us all_ because they're refusing to let go and tying everyone else to it.
I looked up the book that Gothix was citing, and it was written in the late 50s by a former FBI agent. And she was using it to argue that communists are the ones using the government to control how you think!
I think it would be so funny to see these two do a live debate. Like they're 2 girls on opposite ends of the alt fashion spectrum, opposites on the political spectrum, on even believing in social spectrums lol. I think it'd either be funny or... like really deep and makes u think. Idk I get the vibe they'd have a very entertaining debate.
Same. I'd pay good money to watch Gothix and Queer Kiwi debate XD But I don't think Queer Kiwi does debates unfortunately. Vegan Gains once challenged her to a debate on the topic of veganism and she refused...
Have you actually listened to Goth bands outside of the same four bands constantly spouted by teens on TikTok? Despite what normies think, Goth bands are incredibly diverse in subject matter. You have bands like Skinny Puppy that talked against animal abuse. You have Voltaire that makes us all laugh! You have Love Spirals Downwards that makes dreamy otherworldly music that feels Shakespearian inspired. You have VNV Nation that will make you cry your eyes out while on the dancefloor. You have Switchblade Symphony that makes songs about morbid nursery rhymes. None of these bands conflict with the views of any political party. That's because Goth is largely an APOLITICAL SUBCULTURE. In the early 2000s, there was a Goth Club in Los Angeles called Bar Sinister. I saw their flyer with a giant green butterfly that said, "Leave your religions and politics at the door and elevate your mind". That's the entire point of the Goth scene. You can have your religious and political beliefs but when you enter the Goth Club leave all that at home and just HAVE A GOOD TIME. Dance your ass off. Make friends. Leave the mundane world behind.
@@malkavianr1ddle371 I think it depends on the fanbase. But in more circles it’s left leaning because its meant to be a place to express yourself and that could attract like gay and black people but politics are confusing to pinpoint where you stand as a person and also there’s it being post-punk but they’re more siblings. I’m just saying it’s more liberal because conservatism is all about things staying like before. But politics are just about well know people trying to please the working class in the end. But also goth baby bats shouldn’t be shamed for knowing the known, maybe talk more about them and they can learn. No offense it’s just alternative culture is very popular with minorities and it’s hard to get along with someone voting for you to not be yourself. Especially with the really divided politics in America and maybe other places but that’s my theory. Sorry if I’m wrong on something and if I am please tell me.
@@malkavianr1ddle371 yeah, I have heard a lot of goth music, and I think you'd have to either go digging for bands that don't contradict your conservative morals or ignore the lyrics. the bible literally warns against "worldly music." Apolitical?! There's nothing apolitical about goth! maybe the watered down marketable version you see in the main stream today, or in the 2000s as you say, but goth is literally an offshoot of punk, an incredibly political subculture, and it does a lot of subversive things that go against a lot of people's political beliefs, such as defying gender roles and modesty, not ignoring the fact that the world really sucks sometimes and maybe we should change things, and that it's OK to be different. I'm trying to wrap my head around why a conservative would even WANT to be goth. Don't disrespect the subculture's history by calling it "apolitical."
@@k4nd1incyb3rsp4c3 " I think you'd have to either go digging for bands that don't contradict your conservative morals or ignore the lyrics." This alone let's me know that you haven't listened to a lot of actual Goth music. But you're intent on being right so of course you'd say this without giving evidence to back it up. Also, Conservatives are a political party. Politics ARE NOT about morals. Politics are about the legislature and policies of a Government. NOT gender, sexuality, nor religion. Conservatives and Liberals are defined by their ideals on how they believe the government should be run (i.e. Big government vs small government). THAT'S IT. "maybe the watered down marketable version you see in the main stream today, or in the 2000s as you say, " You've given no examples and I've given plenty. It's funny that you call the early 2000s Goth Scene "watered down". Yet, I doubt you were even going out to clubs back then (since you most likely were too young or not even born yet). "I'm trying to wrap my head around why a conservative would even WANT to be goth. Don't disrespect the subculture's history by calling it "apolitical." I'll give you some reasons based on the people I've known. Conservative Goths love the subculture because: - They like the music - They like to dance at Goth clubs - They have friends in the community. - Their lifestyle celebrates the Goth aesthetic and philosophy. - They fit in. People aren't two dimensional characters one a screen. People are multifaceted and multilayered. A 6'7" man can have no interest in sports. A short feminine woman can love football. A conservative can be a member of the Goth subculture. "but goth is literally an offshoot of punk, an incredibly political subculture," Nice Googling but that's a common misconception and oversimplification. The early Goth community was a mixture of elements, punk being one of many but not the only one. Glam Rock, New Wave, Silent Films, Victorian mourning rites, and old Horror films had just as much influence. Also, not all Goth bands were rooted in Punk (i.e. Depeche Mode, The Sisters of Mercy). The Sisters sound more like Led Zepplin (especially on Vision Thing) with spooky atmosphere than anything remotely Punk. And they're considered an archetypal Goth band. And their lyrics are mostly maudlin poetry, introspection, or bemoaning lost love. There are political Goths Goth is a movement that was birthed circa the POST PUNK era. Post Punk isn't a genre that came out of punk. It's a genre that defines a time period that came after the death of the Sex Pistols wave of Punk in the UK. Goth cropped up as push back against what they saw as the staleness of the Sex Pistols era. If you intend to speak about a subculture you should get experience in REAL LIFE and not rely on TikTok or Google to inform you.
I understand why people say that people with opposing political views should be able to be friends, but as someone with a mixed ethnicity, part of LGBTQ and disabled I simply don't WANT to be friends with people that are against my existence. Is that really hard to believe? I don't want to be friends with homophobes, racist people or people that are ableist. Because that affects me... So while I get where she's coming from, I don't agree at all. If it affects me and my existence badly, I won't be friends with someone. I thought that was common sense...
I went to a Catholic school as a kid, and one day we were doing a bible search for religion class in the seventh grade. Me and my friend were looking for the verse we needed for the assignment and found one about how a SA survivor deserved what happened to her because she had a baby unwed. because of the SA. We told our teacher and he (a Catholic) said "The bible was written a long time ago, and most of it is okay, some is good, but there's also had had parts and we can't believe all of it, like this or the one about homophobia. That kind of stuff isn't okay, and it's not now nor was it back then" and that's the nicest response I've ever gotten from pointing out and parts of the bible
It makes no sense for a god that is supposed to be the only god to have a sex. If their god were a he, that would imply a species of gods with she-s and other he-s. It isn't possible to be monotheistic with a father god.
Honestly I’ve had a complicated relationship with my religion. I was turned away from Christianity because of the community and my beliefs were more in line with Judaism. However, conversion takes a while and I’m not sure if it would be worth it. As someone who is a non-binary lesbian, I find it so saddening that the people who claim to believe in the same god as I do are also the same people who want to see the world burn. I’ve tried defending the Christian community, but it’s not worth it. They won’t change their mind and I never understood why religion had to align with conservatism.
As a Christian, I am really sorry you feel that way and have become disheartened. The first time I read the Gospel I cried because I was shocked at home much Jesus loved people and showed grace. I was then shocked to come onto social media and see that that’s not what ppl know the community for. I can only pray for change and try to be a better representation 🌸
Hey Kiwi, in my country we had communism for around 40 years and it wasn't a great time. Still I'm a socialist, cuz there is a huge difference between communism and socialism and a lot people don't get that. I recomend you to learn more about communism beacause yes it was based on socialism but it led to genoside and it litteraly broke ours economy. That's why the difference is important.
Communistic Russia killed more of its own people, North Korea is holding its own people hostage, China has clear areas of rich and poor. Communism would work if there wasn't corrupt government, but sadly the vast majority of the worlds government is absolutely corrupt
Unless your country was 100% stateless, classless and moneyless it wasn’t communism, most “communist” countries were/are just socialist run by a communist party
yes this is an important thing to point out! it's tiring whenever capitalism enjoyers bring up countries as an example for why leftist ideologies are all bad when they aren't educated on any of it
I also want to add that looking at all the european countries that became communist after ww2, communism wasn't applied the same way and therefore didn't have the same effect. my family is from one of these former communist countries. ww2 would have left the country poorer regardless of the economic system. things improved a lot over the years. my parents did grow up fairly poor but they weren't starving by any means and my grandparents were able to go to university because it was free. the country was poor before, during, and after communism so that's probably not the only problem here
i mentioned something similar on the last vid about this girl, but hate when people like this try to use goth/punk/grunge and things like that and try to make them something completely different...like, just because you wear black doesn't make you goth, it's not that simple i'm punk myself, and i hate when people try to lump neonazis and skinheads and other alt right shit and say that's "punk", like do you even know what punk means? it's not even close, just because you're loud and aggressive and wear spikes and ripped clothes doesn't make you punk, you can't just put on a costume and claim to be that thing, usually i don't gatekeep or bitch about posers but like, you can't sit with us lmao
I’ve met way too many people like that, who take these subcultures as nothing but an aesthetic or fashion. I’m goth and punk, and though I have piercings, tattoos, and a generally dark style, I’m much more dedicated to the subcultures for the typically unnoticed beliefs and community. The music is a big plus too, but I cannot stand when people claim to be a part of these groups only to turn around and say the most horrendously bigoted BS that I’ve ever heard. There’s no singular correct way to be involved in these subcultures, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a wrong way. These assholes have clearly found that wrong way.
@@Mars-jf4gy definitely, when people say someone isn't "punk enough" because they don't dress a certain way or they don't listen to exclusively punk music and nothing else that's annoying because punk doesn't have one specific look, but there definitely is situations where gatekeeping should be a thing, and fascism is definitely one of them. punk is inherently anti-fascism, and the people who desperately try to claim that it isn't are gross as hell and don't understand the meaning of being punk, it's not a matter of opinion, that's just what punk is.
@@hellbound_psyker she thought we'd be like "wow, nature is beautiful, god must exist since he made all this" but what actually happened is we said "wow, nature is beautiful, I'm going to worship it."
@@k4nd1incyb3rsp4c3 SAME and it’s hard to take “Christian’s” seriously when they are all for destroying earth with capitalism and not actually being grateful for earth and nature and how it provides us the ability to exist. Edit: cuz god forbid they didn’t have all these culdasacs deforesting the world just so they can segregate themselves from the “peasants” Lmao it’s kinda funny but depressing more than anything Because even in their glass neighborhoods they still have no sense of true community
Issa identity crisis. You can't say this but in the Black community colorism and tokenism breed people like this all the time. They want to be accepted by people who won't accept them and so go hard AF to be that one Black friend they're always preaching about.
I think my favorite bible quote to tell people like her is "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" James 4:12 KJV, usually makes them quiet
"I don't think you deserve to be alive," shouldn't be a debate, it shouldn't be seen as a mere "difference of opinion." Like, seriously, if someone came up to her and said, "you deserve to burn in hell!" would she REALLY be cool with sitting there and "debating" her right to exist?
I used to work with a "conservative goth" and she was perhaps one of the meanest people I've ever met. Like, she's definitely in the top 5. She was mean to everybody except this one guy because she was into him. But she was ESPECIALLY mean to me because me and her had a similar fashion sense (even though I don't consider myself goth) and the guy that she was into was into me and not her. She only lasted a few weeks at work before she was fired. And the funny thing is that she was transferred to our workplace from another workplace because she was being mean to people. She's now pretty popular on TikTok and surprise surprise, she's still mean!
@@chris135xNope. I've met plenty of conservatives. Some of them are nice, some of them are kind, and many of them are horrible egocentric people who rant all day about how the left are destroying everything and they're totally A holes. Sorry you don't like the truth.
Damn she made up a conservative goth wtf girl it's so contradictory and she's even all serious about it it's embarrassing💀 Goth community deffo disowns her
Is Gothix still doing that thing where she'll just read random statistics vaguely related to the topic at hand with no source or context, do the Dreamworks smirk and declare she's won the argument forever?
I'm sorry but if your "opinion" invalidates people, calls people names, or calls for the freedom to hurt people, then that opinion is already not civil. You can't have a civil debate if you started it with anything hurtful.
She keeps quoting verses like it’s some sort of own. She doesn’t even try to explain why she’s quoting those verses or why it even matters what the Bible says at all. It’s so infuriating
A woman who I once spoke who was a member of the Pentecostal Church (not the most trans-friendly branches of religions) once said it like this: "People who find support in their faith through scripture because of what they read in the Bible. Good, wonderful. The problem starts when there are people who interpret this scripture and in turn think that interpretation is the only true way to live, and try to convince others that they need to live according to their interpretation. That's the biggest danger." I think she was very well aware of the problems religion can have and was not afraid to call out some of the problems it can cause.
She can be conservative and goth if she wants to, but that's not gonna change what the vast majority of the subculture stands up for and believes in. She's only setting herself up for frustration lol. Also no one is gonna want her preaching in the club. We're here to listen to music ma'am not debate whether or not half of us here are conforming to your idea of gender.
Why is it so hard for people to be a good person if you need a book to tell you to be a good person thats pretty sad when you can just be a decent person
I love Queer Kiwi and Gothix frustrates the shit out of me every time so I LOVE seeing one of my favorite RUclipsrs react to one of my least favorite RUclipsrs. Thanks for this video, I loved every second of it!!!
I love how she “cites” a book written by a conservative to explain the “rules of communism.” the amount of cognitive dissonance conservatives experience on a daily basis is mind-boggling. Everything that leaves their mouths is a drooling-on-the-floor take.
As someone who grew up within the church and went to a private school and is now an atheist, Christianity did nothing for me other than give me religious trauma and the ability to argue with people like this because of my background and knowledge of the religion. I wish people like this would listen to themselves talk and really read the passages around the verses they throw like darts at people
14:40 Well, to be fair, I'm from Ukraine which was under USSR for a long time. There was ethnic cleansing, starvation, and much more the communist rule. All without US intervention. "If you ask anyone from Eastern Europe how communism works they will tell you it doesn't" - my sociology teacher's Slovak husband.
I wish you had addressed the book that she was basing her arguments from. Not the Bible, but The Naked Communist. The author of that book was known to be a conspiracy theorist, an extremist, and even a nutjob... Even by others on the political right, and even by others of the time it was written (more than 60 years ago).
Depends on the background of the agency. I've been to a few therapists in a religious based mental health agency (which offered more than just therapy, but that's what most of my participation was) and also several non religious mental health agencies, and I can say that I never heard anything about religion even in the religion based agencies unless I brought it up in session first. Also, if you have government insurance, it will cover your treatment if you're obviously struggling to maintain a decent life or have already been diagnosed, but even if they paid for it, the insurance is the asshole, not the people up top.
The people 'up top' are the ones who decide what that insurance is required to cover. The people 'up top' are also the ones that decide how much doctors, clinics, and hospitals are paid for providing those services- which is why the USAmerican Healthcare system has ballooned to absurd degrees. It's also why many doctors and clinics have stopped taking government insurance. The people 'up top' dictate what the insurance covers, so if something isn't covered or isn't sufficiently covered, it *is* their fault.
this is totally unrelated to how good the video was, I went to your site to see what links you have there in terms of petitions and donations, and I found Lebanon?? Palestine??? Yemen???? honestly such a slay I'm so happy someone outside of our region gives a shit 😭😭😭 ty for this (I'm lebanese btw)
And on the religion, I'm pagan and I believe that none of the religions are "correct" That's just where I stand, but I don't pressure others into believing what I believe. I'm also aware that the positivity I feel from my deities could be placebo affect, I just don't care. The effects I get from my faith are real, even if the cause is more scientific
Wow, her whole video was literally her being a major hypocrite. This was one of your best videos yet. You obliterated all of her points with perfect sense and just the right amount of humor. 😂👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
“Women have never been told to smile” Ben Shapiro clearly wasn’t around when the internet was attacking Brie Larson during Captain marvel for that exact thing
Is she even AWARE of how hard is it to “close down” a church? Many people would LOVE to take down terrible and disgusting churches, but religion is the be all, end all of North America, that will likely not change for a very long time.
To answer ur question there Gothix: It's not the church that's really the issue or even the religion. It's not that people are upset with those things they're upset when people are using their religion to hurt other people or trying to force their beliefs onto others. If u want to practice a religion or not is entirely up to u but when ur telling other people how to live their lives & that they must follow ur faith exactly like u do that's when we have an issue
To say the church didn't hurt people is acting as though residential schools didn't happen and that LGBT+ people weren't hurt either. Her arguments are so stupid it hurts my brain.
The tittle of this video made me think of the time back when I was still forced to go to church. I wore a black sweater with little golden crosses on it to a church party/function. And one of the church leaders walked up to me and was like I like your sweater it’s goth and Christian just like you. And I was just like who said I was goth or Christian.
25:02 there’s actually a psychological thing behind this, it’s called the six stages of moral development and it’s by lawrence kohlberg. it says that as people get older, their morals are defined by different things, which are punishment reward social acceptance obedience lawfulness equality (not everyone gets to this stage) i think that’s correct lol, but it’s a really interesting concept and i’d recommend looking into it further
omg thank u for doing this video, u are absolutely right. my mom and her family lived under communism and literally everything u said is right. also, being alternative and being conservative are 2 things that like u said, CANNOT coexist. so thank u so so so much for spreading awareness (i speak as a communist goth). i'm sending u so much love from Italy🫶
Coming from someone who has spent decades working within the Goth community and serving it as a member of it: You are spot on. I have run into a large number of white supremacist (like *openly* white supremacist) Goths over the years. For the most part, the community just lets them be (which is a major problem for any minority members of the community of course). This same laissez-faire attitude is prevalent in many related communities, largely in the US, as is the same attitude about them, unfortunately. American, conservatives, particularly, are just fascists who find that word distasteful without finding the practices associated with that word distasteful. Open identification with that movement is a concession that they either support the elimination of people they deem undesirable or find political moves towards that elimination to not be a dealbreaker. Either way, they aren't worth the conversation anymore.
Omg i knew a girl almost exactly like this. She was a christian goth and one of those "allies" (suuuuper heavy on the quotations), she was also a HUUUGE hypocrite because she did the dirty and judged and was generally a really annoying person who had the "sweet enough to give you cavities" personality that thinks that phrase is a compliment and not calling her fake. She alienated all of her friends and was either clueless over how little people liked her or chose to ignore it. Last i heard she was attempting to be a content creator and failing because none of the christians, goths, or lgbtq communities wanted her and she rejected the people part of the chiristian goth community because she thought they were "doing it wrong" and were "fake," unlike her so shes just, all alone
As a pagan who has issues with Christianity, I have never had issues with Jesus. Most of his messages are things that I agree with and how he went against the Roman Empire is super interesting to me
EXACTLY. I have issues with most version of the Bible, Old and New Testament included, but I do not have an issue with Jesus Christ himself. In fact, I fins the history and mythology behind the true version of him infinitely interesting
Idk how to start this but- Your makeup looks absolutely amazing and your hair just looks so soft and fluffy and pretty and- you get the idea but you just look like such an adorable bean today- well everyday but your makeup and hair just makes you look so soft TvT
I'm so sick of religious people conflating being a devout follower of their faith with morally good behaviour. If a religious person does what their scripture deems morally right in order to avoid divine punishment or gain divine reward (like heaven or hell respectively in the case of Christianity), then those choices aren't based on morals, they're selfish. Morals are about what's the right thing to do for your community, people as a whole, sentient animals or even the entire world, depending on how holistic your views are. Morally good people do good things because they want to have a positive impact on others, not because some kind of doctrine tells them to.
I do believe we CAN have civil discussions. But when it comes to basic human rights it’s like really ? If you’re religious and you’re against basic human rights, you’re against your own religion
JC was the rebellious lefty son of an almighty MAGA dad..and pops co-opted and skewed the message after he was sacrificed. Just a theory (..could make a fun little sect out of this). Never heard of this woman before, kind of annoyed that I now do but still love the QK's analysis, as always.
How can she say 'the bible does not change'? They had literal councils of chrisitian bishops that got together to decide what parts to keep and what parts to toss.
Many hate when you bring up the mistranslated things and things like what you said. They think it's the perfect book and has zero flaws even tho there are mistranslated parts, and missing books in it. I think most of them don't want to accept it's been messed with and things through the years just because they're stubborn and want to hate and the current book gives them an excuse to.
Also the fact that there are multiple versions of the bible and different sects of christianity shows that the bible changes
Well, they stopped editing it a while ago
The Bible changed so much the Torah only ever said abusing children was the sin and that got changed into man should not lie with another man because the translators didn't want to lose their pederasty back then. Sodom and Gomorrah is such a strange word of warning when the three sins was animals, incest and then children got changed to just male homosexuality specifically, and no fundamental "Christian" seems to call attention to it.
@@jasonpickles2576 That doesn't really matter. They changed the content, in some cases some things that changed might just have been updated language so that people would actually understand what they were reading. So the Bible changed, regardless how recent a change was.
“If the church is doing bad things, then the church should be closed”
The Catholic Church: 😅
Scientology, prosperity gospel megachurches, Mormon LDS: 😰
as an ex-catholic - yes, it should be, world would be better off without it
@animefanka Yeah, as an ex-catholic as well, now independent christian, I feel like it would be a positive experience for people, if all bigger churches collapsed and people started their own spiritual trip
@@blairfujin As someone who is officially Atheist now, and cut contact with religions. I 10000% agree.
Especially dont force kids.
@@feistygheistyJWs 😨
My sister, back when she was christian, said she figured Jesus incarnated as male because that was the only way to be taken seriously.
I hate that she's right
Oh wow, i never thought about it that way. But to be fair, i never thought about why Jesus was a man at all.
I love that statement. But just to throw it in here as well: he could have flipped a coin as well to decide on the gender
@@cloud_catus8500 lmao
Yeah, that tracks.
Her saying that debate should be civil is yet another instance of her being hypocritical becasue of the few debates I've seen her in she was not civil whatsoever
Do you have any links? I would love to see that
@@Saturn_Drawz Her and Hunter Avallone's impromptu debate's a good one to check out
@@ember5551 thanks
i've seen my very existence debated with "civility" too many times. most calls for "civil debate" are feeble, pathetic and disgustingly insincere. then at the end you and your debate partner lick each other's assholes over how civil you were and get exactly nothing done.
“Queer people weren’t in the bible” NEITHER WERE PENCILS, SUSAN
-i didn't do my homework okay im sorry i didnt know there were a bunch of gay people in the bible-
I mean, biblical scholars since the medieval age looking at david and johnathan might disagree on that first point lol
@@PugandOwn eh close enough
Neither were goth people
Or modern technology and they use those 😐
@@PugandOwn Not to mention Ruth and Naomi.
"The bible doesn't change" oh I think it does. The language of Jesus would have been Aramaic, then it would have been in Hebrew, then coming through Greek, then Latin, across the middle languages into multiple generations of English (I assume Gothix is using English). And then when you are looking at versions, King James had it rewritten to fit his own needs which has clear differences to other versions you can still find eg. English Standard. The bible has gone through a big game of telephone and everyone who has passed along the message has put their own opinions into it.
That's why a lot of it seems so controversial to the idea of spreading "love and kindness" and passages go against the idea of an unconditionally loving god. (That's mostly what I thought anyway, but thank you for clarifying it in better terms that are more easily understandable!)
Lol an obvious Christian older lady was in the store I work in and was buying a Bible for her granddaughter. They were talking about it and the lady says it used to be written in another language before it got translated to English, but couldn't remember what language. Me, who is currently agnostic by admittedly use to go to church until 2013ish, said "I think it was Aramaic."
So she’s surprised people react negatively to her quoting passages about love.
When all she does is talk about how and why she hates people.
I seriously don't get how religion who was founded on the idea of love and forgiveness is also one of the most hateful religion out there.
A “doctor” suggested my sister undergo electroshock therapy for her depression/anxiety. It left her with severe memory loss issues. Our mental healthcare system is fucked up.
Isn’t electroshock therapy illegal in the U.S?
Only some states, I don't think it's a federal law :/
@@parker1443 It should be but I think some places sadly still allow it
Okay so modern ECT isnt wild convulsions. The person is under anaesthesia and its light voltage.
And yes a side effect is memory loss and temporary difficulty with learning as the brain does run on electrochemical impulses .
However Im going to assume the doctor did not inform you guys of that! At all!
@@maem7462 Modern ECT is much like modern psychosurgery
Should only be done as a last resort when the patient hasnt responded to anything else. Like literally nothing else works and the mental health issue is causing such a negative impact on life you cannot just leave it be.
You dont just chuck someone into ECT for depression (and not for anxiety!) without having tried therapy and medications first. And then going through all the different medications and trying different dosages. And the various therapies that the patient may respond to.
I sincerely doubt the... Ethics of those who go: Yea lets just put patients under anaesthesia (which has its own multiple risks) and use ECT, heck all the other things.
especially if the patient is under... 18
My christian therapist is currently working with doctors to get me HRT at the moment and supports me whole heartedly and has helped dozens of others just like me, therapist’s should never bring their own religious opinions into their practice and those who do should lose their license
I think it’s one thing for doctors to recommend the care of another doctor to do non-emergency care that they are not comfortable doing, but they should never be allowed to shame you for your decisions or prevent you from learning about or accessing them.
I’m so glad you found a great doctor!
The gender-clinic that I'm at (and once was the very first gender-clinic treating children in the world, beginning of the 1990's) is situated in a hospital that had it's origins in medical care for people who were Catholic... Sometimes, when people want to use religion as an excuse I like to throw that in their face because they would consider that the ultimate of evils they could think of: a Catholic hospital providing that type of care (even though their Catholic exception to treating Catholic patients only stopped being a thing in the 1970's I think).
I had a therapist and I hate her sm. She found out I am bisexual and she tried to make me straight.
@@Moon-eg1bu unfortunately idiots exist everywhere. But they should never work like that either
@@Moon-eg1bu sorry to hear you had a shitty therapist who can't do their jobb properly. Hope you find a better one
She practically said “you should debate Nazi not beat them up!”
No replays :sadge:
As a Jewish person, she’s right.
@@awesomekingakathe66bro36 you’re not the spokesperson for Jewish people lol
@@johnsullyB oh, but I am one of them. Also, didn’t you storm the capitol on January 6th? What are you doing siding with the left? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@awesomekingakathe66bro36 …what are you talking about?
I love how she says that leftists only use the Bible incorrectly, but she says one Peter instead of first peter.
If I had to guess with these kinds of people:
"You're using/reading it incorrectly" = "Your interpretation is invalid just because it doesn't match mine"
It sucks when people purposefully misinterprets the bible, doesn’t matter what side you’re on.
@Jason Pickles Bothsideism when conservative politicians frequently use misinterpretions of their favorite bible passages as justification for destroying people's lives with asinine laws that no one asked for. Alrighty.
@@saintkohle yeah, that sucks to see
@@jasonpickles2576I don't think it's "purposefully misinterpret"
Hard to say what's the correct interpretation.
They just see what they want.
Not-at-all fun fact: The largest mental health system in the US is the prison system.
Hoping someday we get a 40+minute video debunking alpha male/incel rhetoric like the “women dont like men who cry” lie or the “women dont like men who wear dresses and makeup” lie
I
I was just on the phone with my female best friend of 18 years and her other also female friend. She's going through a breakup and we were discussing the "Only emotion men are allowed to express is anger" thing and they both started talking about how a man who is comfortable crying and actually fkin' apologizing is sexy as hell. I'm an ace, I didn't veer the conversation this way, they both just started talking about how men who are actually emotionally mature are sexy. Men out there trying to act like John Wayne, stop, it only hurts you and your relationships. Most normal women don't want some emotionless machine of a man, they want someone they can freaking talk to and connect with ffs.
Im a lesbian but platonically all my male friends wear/sell makeup and have emotions like human beings😭
@@edwardzignot2681 yea its crazy bc so many men will agree with us that anger and stoicism are the only feelings men are allowed to feel, but the problem is they think women are the the only ones perpetuating that, I remember a this one dudebro type guy reacting to a video called “questions women have for men” (on buzzfeed I think). One of the questions was “why dont men allow themselves to cry? It makes you human” and the guy reacting said “men dont cry because when we do, we get made fun of…BY WOMEN!” & all the comments consisted of misinformed men saying “women always want us to cry and express our emotions, but the second us men cry and open up about things that make us sad, no women women wanna date us and were single forever” It not only sucks how many men physically and emotionally drain themselves just to attract women when they’d have a better chance by being themselves and treating women like people, but these guys will hear THOUSANDS of women saying “we like xyz be yourself” and claim they’re lying, but the second they hear one pick me girl say “nah if my man cries, doesn’t have other women trying to get with him, or feels scared when dangerous people or animals attack us, I’m leaving him” the guys are like “SEE I TOLD YOU ALL WOMEN WANT ALPHA MALES ITS BIOLOGYYYY”
Sad times were living in but people like Kiwi, Annamarie Forcino, Sam collins, etc are turning men to the light, I know cause I’m one of them
I feel like it needs to be more clearly established - emotional control is a fantastic trait in anyone. Being able to suppress emotional reactions in a dire situation, or to avoid triggering those more emotionally vulnerable around you, is a trait that everyone should have and should be encouraged to have.
However, we have men taking it to the extreme on both sides.
Men thinking that anger is the only valid emotion on one end, and on the other, men who think that they can behave like emotionally stunted man-children just because we say "it's okay to feel emotions other than anger".
She unfortunately reminds me of a coworker I have who is an old school goth with a lot of racist and transphobic beliefs. I've had conversations with this coworker where she would claim "they/them as a singular pronoun doesn't make sense grammatically so I won't use it" and then IMMEDIATELY used "they" to refer to a trans woman because she doesn't think trans women are women but recognizes that she wasn't a man and thus used a ""grammaticality incorrect"" neutral pronoun instead as a compromise. Really disappointing to see folks taint a community I've so lovingly been a part of since my teen years
That coworker is a poseur and probably listens to Morrissey.
@@meowwsus”Gatekeeping is good when we do it!”
@@meowwsus That’s exactly what a gatekeeper would say lmfao. People can’t enjoy a certain style of art or fashion because they disagree with you on stupid modern culture war problems, got it.
I can see why gothix’s bible thumping would conflict with gothic style on a foundational level, but subcultures are not monoliths on every specific social dilemma. If they were, then they would all be no-true-scots circklejerks akin to organized religions or political parties
I don’t usually like to say that, but you’re totally right. No self respecting goth, ESPECIALLY an OG one, would ever act like that
An old school goth is tainting the community? But old school by definition means they’ve been a part of the subculture for a long time (likely she had the same views back then). So your comment doesn’t make sense.
I think you’re lying for clout.
I literally used to be a conservative goth. Basically my mom was cool with me dressing however I wanted as long as I wasn’t being mean about it. The catch was my parents believed in TONS of conservative Christian beliefs so if I wanted freedom in how I looked I had to act like them. Obviously at the time I just thought ‘that’s how people are supposed to act’. now that I’m out of that brainwashing station, I can proudly say I’m a Socialist Goth 🖤
They also seem to conveniently forget that Jesus very openly did not agree with religion and was not promoting Christianity, but redemption through god and accepting peace and love. The bible says Love thy neighbor, not convert them with physical and psychological force🙄 Jesus isn't political he's a neutral humanitarian, objectivevly single chromosome demi god that was the first hippie to say " hey maybe war and sacrefice isn't good?
the actual person jesus was litterally jewish and tried to change the religion bc he thought there were some hols that could be fixed. but everyone just made a whole new religion around him-
@@dollyrex Not to mention that the reason he decried the accumulation of wealth was because he viewed it as a distraction from living a holy life and while he encouraged the people to help the downtrodden, that was mostly because he believed that the end times were neigh. As Spencer McDaniel from Tales Of Times Forgotten put it, sure Jesus advocated for some things that might be perceived as socialist, his reasoning was different.
Yep, agreeing as a Christian! When Jesus went to the temple and there were Stallholders at the entrance trying to commercialise it, he scattered and overturned everything. Jesus removed the barriers for people seeking God. Jesus was and is concerned with the purity of worship, not merely religion. My aim is to emulate his love and grace and I hope you encounter Christians who truly represent Him :)
Yep, agreeing as a Christian! When Jesus went to the temple and there were Stallholders at the entrance trying to commercialise it, he scattered and overturned everything. Jesus removed the barriers for people seeking God. Jesus was and is concerned with the purity of worship, not merely religion. My aim is to emulate his love and grace and I hope you encounter Christians who truly represent Him :)
@opposum1114 And many of the followers of the religion in question use it to justify some of the worse crimes humanity has done and will do. I don't see Jesus as flawed, but I see Christianity as flawed.
Honestly Gothix reminds me of my mom, who's also always taking the Bible out of context to get me to do shit
Laxatives would be far more effective, and it probably isn't safe to eat the ink.
@@justinwatson1510 was going to comment the same
@@justinwatson1510 🤣
Gothix is also a poser.
@@justinwatson1510PLS
I do not hate Christians, most of my family are devoted Christians but when you come to someone who doesnt have the same faith and push past set boundaries and actively ignore their boundaries to spread the word of your faith , thats crossing the line and thats what frustrates non-Christians . I know not all Christians are like this , i mean those who dont take "no" " not interested " seriously . I honestly like how the lgbtq+ is coming into the churches, because i have heard to much stories about Christian lgbtq+ being discriminated , hated on and judged by other Christians .
This is a huge reason I went no contact with my mother. I am not a Christian, have zero interest in Christianity, and will never be a Christian. I’m actually a pagan, and she knows this. I don’t bring my religion up to her because it would be WW3, but she had no issues with preaching to me every single time I was on the phone with her.
My boundaries in general meant nothing to her, but the preaching got fvcking beyond old.
@@auggiet8380 as a fellow pagan i understand how frustrating that is , i am just grateful I made clear boundaries with my Christian family and so far have respected them
I’ve had exorcisms/faith healing attempts forced on me by random strangers on public… because ‘god put it on my heart to reach out to you. I know you are hurting and suffering.’ I’m not, but I’m a metalhead who wears a lot of black. I’ve been through a lot in my life but I’ve been stable for years. I actually was miserable when I was in a christian/catholic school. But they look at me and assume it’s ok to try and cast out some sort of demon I don’t have.
there are some good christians out there, but they are far outnumbered by the bigots.
@jakes4164 my mind is as open as the sun is hot , that doesnt stop or change what I said or feel . Claiming someone doesnt have a open mind without an attempt of understanding where Im coming from is just sad
A lot of my christian friends say if you actually read the bible you' ll see Jesus is strongly anticapitalist and I agree
Capitalism didn't exist back then, but greed, selfishness, and cruelty justified by wealth and class certainly did.
Capitalism didn’t become a concept up until 200 years ago
Socialism has been around as far as 5 AD with China being the earliest examples
So given one is significantly older than the other but hasn’t had as nearly drastic effect on poverty and lifting people out of it, tells me enough about the system
I can't tell if this comment is saying "boo socialism" or."boo capitalism" even after reading it thrice. Capitalism overall has caused more misery tho.
@@hyperboles6563 I think it's boo capitalism
@@hyperboles6563it's also 400 years old, not 200
She doesn't even seem like an actual goth. It's like she saw a hot topic in the mall and was like, "YES! That's the costume I'm going to wear!".
And guess what? That's valid,there are hardcore goth people and more low-key goths. They are equally valid.
Goth is a music-based subculture. Goths sure have other shared values and characteristics, but that's the basis. And if that's her style, she likes it and feels good in and about it, I'm happy for her. Personal style is also an explorative and individual journey. Criticizing her for her content, yea, but shaming her for her appearance is really not the way to go...
@@michi9866Yes! You can call yourself goth if you're a fan of the music. No need to have a specific clothing style (even the people from the bands don't always have an extravagant style). Unfortunately the mainstream thinks it's just about fashion, or some dark interests and aesthetics, it has been like that for many years.
exactly, she thinks because she wears black that makes her goth, everyone disagreeing has no idea what goth is
@ChuckStegall777 there’s nothing “gatekeeping” about this comment lmfao
careful about calling her “conservative” Savannah, she’ll soon be screeching to you about how she’s “politically homeless” (a conservative that doesn’t understand what words mean)
I think you are doing a pretty good job of pushing your agenda.
My view on humanity changed pretty drastically while listening to you. I used to be very ignorant to a lot of things, and I had misanthropic views too. I never verbally attacked people because I'm an introvert and confrontational conversation is scary, but my thoughts went into dark places, which made me miserable too.
I'm still not an overly empathetic person, but it has gotten so much better. I changed a lot of my views and it made me happier too.
So, thanks for that.
we love your growth ❤
Im glad to hear youre happier! Best of luck on your growth journey. Wishing you good friends and warm meals
Would you feel comfortable elaborating on your journey? I would love to know how you made such progress! ❤
@@sparklinginfinity2887 Hey, well, I grew up in a very rural place, and I hate to say it, but we have a lot of bigots here. You know, they frequently use slurs and all that, and you can imagine, growing up like that, it influences you.
Through peer pressure, I started to participate in bullying this one girl because she had strong acne. (However, we later became friends for a while, and there was no bad blood between us in the end.)
However, people started to gang up on me eventually. One other girl spread the rumor I was lesbian. Which was false, but she was jealous that I was good friends with these other people. (We were in 7th grade, btw and up until I was 17, I had no idea what "lesbian" even meant, it was just not talked about) Instead of asking me if I was lesbian, they just told me they couldn't be friends with "someone like me." I switched classes eventually and got another friend group. But, when we got a new girl in class, I was cast aside again. There was also some bullying because I didn't believe in God. So they concluded I must be a Satanist and give BJs to Satan (8th grade, btw).
Anyhow, those experiences made me pretty bitter, and I didn't want to participate in anything anymore. For years I didn't have friends. Basically, any contact with people from school vanished. I got into a toxic relationship which didn't help. I was in it for over a year, and while he didn't physically abuse me, he made me more and more uncomfortable. He took drugs and drank a lot, too, both things I don't like. We had more than once the police called.
I started to imagine how much damage I could do with one knife (on other people, I don't live in the US, so access to guns was thankfully not given). I started to be so hateful to anyone. Why was everyone so annoying?
My misanthropic worldview wasn't helped when I heard the people in my town always complain about the "damn refugees." And "Those damn immigrants ruin everything."
All this toxic bullshit.
But then Corona hit, and I stumbled upon Kiwi while I was pretty sick. I think it was a video about That Vegan Teacher?
In general, this was when I found many RUclipsrs I watch today (One Topic, TheClick, Jammidodger, Sam Collins). All of them not only helped me to adjust my world views, but they also helped me figure stuff out about my gender identity.
Figuring this stuff out made me realize why I was so unhappy. It made me realize why I hated being called anything with "girl" in it. (I used to despise it when older men called me "young lady/pretty lady" because I'm not.)
I figured out why I just couldn't be "like everyone else." I'm aroace, and people always told me I must have a relationship to be happy. A relationship and kids. When I learned what Asexuality was, I realized that I'm not some unnormal freak.
Kiwi talked a lot about topics that affected me in some way, so it helped a lot to get a different view of them. I started to question myself if Topic X/Y was really a problem or just an artificial one because people were uninformed bigots? Most of the time, it was the latter. Because the town I live in is full of old geezers that spew so much nonsense while drinking entire beer crates in one go.
I also talked to my mom about stuff that was going on and that I didn't want to have a partner or children, and she told me it's okay. Just because she wanted children doesn't mean I have to have them. This helped too.
I also got some online friends that I treasure. I plan to visit this one guy, but he lives in the UK, so it is a bit complicated to just fly over.
I also made friends with someone else, and visiting her is what I look forward to all year. She's lesbian, and we did talk about our different experiences. This helped me too.
I still sometimes struggle with overly pessimistic views, especially when my mood is really bad. But I have gotten so much better, and those phases are not as frequent anymore and much shorter. I am thankful for that.
I also started to call out various racist or homophobic things that they said. (Their main argument for being racist/phobic is, "They can't hear us, so it's okay to say stuff like that.")
Anyhow, I still have a lot in front of me, but I want to get rid of my stupid, pessimistic mindset. I don't want to be like I used to be, but getting 25 years of this mindset out of my system is challenging. But I will keep trying to better myself.
ngl ur comment made me tear up a bit :(
i’m so glad that ur happier now, & i’m glad u were able to figure things out for yourself. i hope things only get better for u!
It's sad that there are people who need a book or someone else to tell them how to be moral or what values they should have and yet still get it so wrong. As someone who grew up in the church, I didn't have good values growing up because despite what I was taught, I'd see the hypocrisy from within and understood that to mean that that's how it was supposed to be. You could do shitty things but as long as you asked for forgiveness, you're morally balanced. People who hide behind that book can do whatever and they'll be protected by that institution in the name of God and forgiveness. It wasn't until I broke away from that, did I actually learn what it meant to be a good, loving and accepting person. I've never known anything but harm and dysfunction from religion and I look at my peers who grew up with me in the church and it was just as awful, if not worse for them. So no, I'd rather think for myself and understand the world around me to form my own values based on empathy. Not what an outdated text tells me.
I’m sorry that happened to you, I personally don’t like the church and putting that on children at a young age, it allows for a twisted faith that nobody in that organization can recognize.
@Girl in the Striped Sweater 🏳️🌈
Exactly
Lol don't we all read books to give us ideas. Isn't the same way you wrote this down
Genuinely asking for forgiveness and just claiming to apologize are 2 different things.
@@jasonpickles2576 yet you’re ok with talking to young kids about sexual stuff?
Conservatives be like “I don’t think people like you should exist or have rights, why won’t you politely debate me about that?”
I had friends who were trump supporters in high school mainly cuz of gun rights stuff which I was like um ok… until I started learning about more of what he’s done and cut off that whole friend group 💀 it’s good too cuz one of them genuinely tried justifying incest and was against migrants coming into the US n wouldn’t do yoga because that’s how Christian she was
You know you’re in the wrong when you justify incest
I will vote Trump, he will bring the downfall of America.
Ew
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 Can't get much lower than we already are except complete societal breakdown. Part of me would see that as a cleansing fire, but most people are not prepared for that, and a lot of innocents would be hurt or killed.
I'd read that apocalyptic novel, though.
I had horrible friends in high-school. Because I didn't really have much choice.
Because of financial issues I went to free program to go to high-school in Israel. (Due to Jewish heritage).
And everyone in the school was completely fine going to Israeli army ("it's called 'defence force' so they can't be the oppressors"). Most of them excited and eager to kill some Arabs. (Wanted combative roles).
Only like one guy was like "I don't really want to go, but I'm not gonna do anything to avoid it"
And I have been told kibbutzim are more progressive.
These people love to use the term "Social justice" instead of "human rights" in order to dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them. But it kind of kicked them where it hurts because they're admitting that they're being socially unjust lol
They do the same with “woke”. It’s lost every ounce of its original meaning (the one from many, many decades ago) because these people love to use it as an end-all term to discredit anyone who makes valid points. The second that people start screaming “WOKE BAD, SOCIAL JUSTICE GRRR” is the second that you can tell that they know that their side has no real argument or factual base.
It reminds me of people who don’t want to teach science/history to kids because they believe it’s “liberal agenda”. Like, you literally just admitted that you’re against education because it makes it harder to indoctrinate your kids into your weird ass beliefs..
This reminds me of something from a class I took. The teacher read a poem and the guys were weirded out and the women in the room had to correct them because the author was a woman and was written about a woman's love/lust. They needed that perspective to understand the poem because they didn't understand it the first time they read it. In ancient Egypt the writers were mostly women but they assumed it was a male author because historical literature is a male dominated field. But it was funny because the teacher then explained how common women authors were in history and the men in class learned about the clitoris.
Literature can be interpreted in different ways because of different perspectives. Like art, the bible can be interpreted in different ways. Good people use it to do good and be good and bad people use it to justify they shit behavior and hate.
I actually had a full conversation with my dad (he's an ordained pastor and has a doctorate in the Bible) about how heaven is literally socialism. He agreed, but said he thinks capitalism is the best choice for Earth. (I don't agree, for numerous reasons)
I genuinely don't understand how Christians don't see that Jesus would be a socialist. Yes he did say pay your taxes, but that was "to give back to Ceasar what belongs to him." Jesus preached that we do not need material belongings, which is the opposite of what capitalism encourages.
If you look at the early church, it was small communities who shared their wealth. I'm not saying that this would work on a larger scale, but there is a way to integrate socialism to our current society in small ways.
I should also say I'm still a Christian, I'm just also a leftist
I'd love to have a talk with you at a café or something over this, lol. As someone who became agnostic out of disillusionment, people like you reignite my interest & passion for Christianity.
@@spaghetto9836 Thank you! That's such a big compliment! I'm not sure if I'd be the best person to talk to tho, since my understanding of Christianity is still very base level. I'm planning on researching more when I'm doing better mentally, but I'm glad that what I said is having a positive impact :) (even if you stay agnostic)
Early churches in the first century promoted egalitarian society. Rich, poor, men, women, slave, free men were all considered equal. That's socialism.
Only a few seconds in but I can tell from the title alone this is gonna be a banger
Fr
FR
Hell yeah 🦖
@@NotVille Okay, stop trolling please. That is not okay
@@maapauu4282 I’m probably glad I didn’t see whatever that person said 😅
whenever i see gothix's face i wanna scream in anger and sadness
same :/
Same, as a goth, whenever I see her I think "I don't wanna be in the same community with a person like that.". but she's probably not even goth, goth's a music based subculture, and she probably doesn't even know goth music exists
She throws around the term "communism" more than the John Birch Society... it is the rallying cry of the lost arguement!
Anyone who uses their religion to hate others… does not understand that they are making themselves AND their religion look terrible. Who would want to hate others so much that they are willing to make their own religion look awful? I would rather love than hate and so far… Christianity is full of hate and I want nothing to do with it. I used to be a Christian but then I would just hear people be scared and hateful all the time. Like nah… I’m good. And I’ve never been better. I just want to be happy and to love everyone. I want everyone to just love. Fell compassion. Feel empathy. Feel acceptance. Be nice and just simply respect people. I whole heartedly believe this world would be so much better.
jesus would totally be a socialist
i literally just wrote an essay at my christian school about why i think Jesus was a socialist 😍
Rev Left Radio recently did a podcast episode on early christianity. His movement was not really something I would describe as socialist. The conditions for socialism did not exist back then, so it would not be possible anyway. Trying to imagine what his ideology would be in the current context is unhelpful I think, because he would be a different person.
That sounds right
100%🔥💯
@@chrissyswifeyAs someone else at a Christian school you’re giving me ideas ❤
"the gospel doesn't change, it's an anchor for people and their moral compass"
Right, and that's a bad thing, you see that right? Morality shouldn't be inflexible and never changing unless you think the world is perfect right now
Plus, it's a metaphor for how Conservative Christianity is hindering society.
It's literally _dragging society down and drowning us all_ because they're refusing to let go and tying everyone else to it.
I looked up the book that Gothix was citing, and it was written in the late 50s by a former FBI agent. And she was using it to argue that communists are the ones using the government to control how you think!
I think it would be so funny to see these two do a live debate. Like they're 2 girls on opposite ends of the alt fashion spectrum, opposites on the political spectrum, on even believing in social spectrums lol. I think it'd either be funny or... like really deep and makes u think. Idk I get the vibe they'd have a very entertaining debate.
Same. I'd pay good money to watch Gothix and Queer Kiwi debate XD But I don't think Queer Kiwi does debates unfortunately. Vegan Gains once challenged her to a debate on the topic of veganism and she refused...
@@balkancherry6690 vegan gains is the worst so i can see why she'd do that lmao
How is she goth and conservative?! Does she just ignore all goth lyrics? What goth bands are even safe for conservatives?
And it rooted in punk and punk is inherently leftist
Have you actually listened to Goth bands outside of the same four bands constantly spouted by teens on TikTok?
Despite what normies think, Goth bands are incredibly diverse in subject matter. You have bands like Skinny Puppy that talked against animal abuse. You have Voltaire that makes us all laugh! You have Love Spirals Downwards that makes dreamy otherworldly music that feels Shakespearian inspired. You have VNV Nation that will make you cry your eyes out while on the dancefloor. You have Switchblade Symphony that makes songs about morbid nursery rhymes.
None of these bands conflict with the views of any political party. That's because Goth is largely an APOLITICAL SUBCULTURE.
In the early 2000s, there was a Goth Club in Los Angeles called Bar Sinister. I saw their flyer with a giant green butterfly that said, "Leave your religions and politics at the door and elevate your mind". That's the entire point of the Goth scene. You can have your religious and political beliefs but when you enter the Goth Club leave all that at home and just HAVE A GOOD TIME. Dance your ass off. Make friends. Leave the mundane world behind.
@@malkavianr1ddle371 I think it depends on the fanbase. But in more circles it’s left leaning because its meant to be a place to express yourself and that could attract like gay and black people but politics are confusing to pinpoint where you stand as a person and also there’s it being post-punk but they’re more siblings. I’m just saying it’s more liberal because conservatism is all about things staying like before. But politics are just about well know people trying to please the working class in the end. But also goth baby bats shouldn’t be shamed for knowing the known, maybe talk more about them and they can learn. No offense it’s just alternative culture is very popular with minorities and it’s hard to get along with someone voting for you to not be yourself. Especially with the really divided politics in America and maybe other places but that’s my theory. Sorry if I’m wrong on something and if I am please tell me.
@@malkavianr1ddle371 yeah, I have heard a lot of goth music, and I think you'd have to either go digging for bands that don't contradict your conservative morals or ignore the lyrics. the bible literally warns against "worldly music." Apolitical?! There's nothing apolitical about goth! maybe the watered down marketable version you see in the main stream today, or in the 2000s as you say, but goth is literally an offshoot of punk, an incredibly political subculture, and it does a lot of subversive things that go against a lot of people's political beliefs, such as defying gender roles and modesty, not ignoring the fact that the world really sucks sometimes and maybe we should change things, and that it's OK to be different. I'm trying to wrap my head around why a conservative would even WANT to be goth. Don't disrespect the subculture's history by calling it "apolitical."
@@k4nd1incyb3rsp4c3 " I think you'd have to either go digging for bands that don't contradict your conservative morals or ignore the lyrics."
This alone let's me know that you haven't listened to a lot of actual Goth music. But you're intent on being right so of course you'd say this without giving evidence to back it up.
Also, Conservatives are a political party. Politics ARE NOT about morals. Politics are about the legislature and policies of a Government. NOT gender, sexuality, nor religion. Conservatives and Liberals are defined by their ideals on how they believe the government should be run (i.e. Big government vs small government). THAT'S IT.
"maybe the watered down marketable version you see in the main stream today, or in the 2000s as you say, "
You've given no examples and I've given plenty. It's funny that you call the early 2000s Goth Scene "watered down". Yet, I doubt you were even going out to clubs back then (since you most likely were too young or not even born yet).
"I'm trying to wrap my head around why a conservative would even WANT to be goth. Don't disrespect the subculture's history by calling it "apolitical."
I'll give you some reasons based on the people I've known. Conservative Goths love the subculture because:
- They like the music
- They like to dance at Goth clubs
- They have friends in the community.
- Their lifestyle celebrates the Goth aesthetic and philosophy.
- They fit in.
People aren't two dimensional characters one a screen. People are multifaceted and multilayered. A 6'7" man can have no interest in sports. A short feminine woman can love football. A conservative can be a member of the Goth subculture.
"but goth is literally an offshoot of punk, an incredibly political subculture,"
Nice Googling but that's a common misconception and oversimplification. The early Goth community was a mixture of elements, punk being one of many but not the only one. Glam Rock, New Wave, Silent Films, Victorian mourning rites, and old Horror films had just as much influence.
Also, not all Goth bands were rooted in Punk (i.e. Depeche Mode, The Sisters of Mercy). The Sisters sound more like Led Zepplin (especially on Vision Thing) with spooky atmosphere than anything remotely Punk. And they're considered an archetypal Goth band. And their lyrics are mostly maudlin poetry, introspection, or bemoaning lost love. There are political Goths
Goth is a movement that was birthed circa the POST PUNK era. Post Punk isn't a genre that came out of punk. It's a genre that defines a time period that came after the death of the Sex Pistols wave of Punk in the UK. Goth cropped up as push back against what they saw as the staleness of the Sex Pistols era.
If you intend to speak about a subculture you should get experience in REAL LIFE and not rely on TikTok or Google to inform you.
I understand why people say that people with opposing political views should be able to be friends, but as someone with a mixed ethnicity, part of LGBTQ and disabled I simply don't WANT to be friends with people that are against my existence. Is that really hard to believe? I don't want to be friends with homophobes, racist people or people that are ableist. Because that affects me... So while I get where she's coming from, I don't agree at all. If it affects me and my existence badly, I won't be friends with someone. I thought that was common sense...
Oh you got ‘the left is the only option to be treated as a person’ starter pack too? 😂🎉
I went to a Catholic school as a kid, and one day we were doing a bible search for religion class in the seventh grade. Me and my friend were looking for the verse we needed for the assignment and found one about how a SA survivor deserved what happened to her because she had a baby unwed. because of the SA. We told our teacher and he (a Catholic) said "The bible was written a long time ago, and most of it is okay, some is good, but there's also had had parts and we can't believe all of it, like this or the one about homophobia. That kind of stuff isn't okay, and it's not now nor was it back then" and that's the nicest response I've ever gotten from pointing out and parts of the bible
As said in your previous video abt Gothix, as a certified goth tm (lol) we do NOT claim her
to be fair, from what I know of the torah (jewish) God was technically NB - their pronouns are they/them as far as I've read
It makes no sense for a god that is supposed to be the only god to have a sex. If their god were a he, that would imply a species of gods with she-s and other he-s. It isn't possible to be monotheistic with a father god.
Also there is a Word to describe people that are Not man Nor Woman. Androgyne Or a similar writing.
Honestly I’ve had a complicated relationship with my religion. I was turned away from Christianity because of the community and my beliefs were more in line with Judaism. However, conversion takes a while and I’m not sure if it would be worth it. As someone who is a non-binary lesbian, I find it so saddening that the people who claim to believe in the same god as I do are also the same people who want to see the world burn. I’ve tried defending the Christian community, but it’s not worth it. They won’t change their mind and I never understood why religion had to align with conservatism.
As a Christian, I am really sorry you feel that way and have become disheartened. The first time I read the Gospel I cried because I was shocked at home much Jesus loved people and showed grace. I was then shocked to come onto social media and see that that’s not what ppl know the community for. I can only pray for change and try to be a better representation 🌸
Hey Kiwi, in my country we had communism for around 40 years and it wasn't a great time. Still I'm a socialist, cuz there is a huge difference between communism and socialism and a lot people don't get that. I recomend you to learn more about communism beacause yes it was based on socialism but it led to genoside and it litteraly broke ours economy. That's why the difference is important.
Communistic Russia killed more of its own people, North Korea is holding its own people hostage, China has clear areas of rich and poor. Communism would work if there wasn't corrupt government, but sadly the vast majority of the worlds government is absolutely corrupt
Unless your country was 100% stateless, classless and moneyless it wasn’t communism, most “communist” countries were/are just socialist run by a communist party
yes this is an important thing to point out! it's tiring whenever capitalism enjoyers bring up countries as an example for why leftist ideologies are all bad when they aren't educated on any of it
I also want to add that looking at all the european countries that became communist after ww2, communism wasn't applied the same way and therefore didn't have the same effect. my family is from one of these former communist countries. ww2 would have left the country poorer regardless of the economic system. things improved a lot over the years. my parents did grow up fairly poor but they weren't starving by any means and my grandparents were able to go to university because it was free.
the country was poor before, during, and after communism so that's probably not the only problem here
i mentioned something similar on the last vid about this girl, but hate when people like this try to use goth/punk/grunge and things like that and try to make them something completely different...like, just because you wear black doesn't make you goth, it's not that simple
i'm punk myself, and i hate when people try to lump neonazis and skinheads and other alt right shit and say that's "punk", like do you even know what punk means? it's not even close, just because you're loud and aggressive and wear spikes and ripped clothes doesn't make you punk, you can't just put on a costume and claim to be that thing, usually i don't gatekeep or bitch about posers but like, you can't sit with us lmao
When it's a "Nazi punks fuck off" worthy situation, gatekeeping is mandatory.
@@oculttheexegaming2509 so true, they aren't punk they're just assholes
@@oculttheexegaming2509 Same with the mantra "Fascists do not dance in our darkness" for goths.
I’ve met way too many people like that, who take these subcultures as nothing but an aesthetic or fashion. I’m goth and punk, and though I have piercings, tattoos, and a generally dark style, I’m much more dedicated to the subcultures for the typically unnoticed beliefs and community. The music is a big plus too, but I cannot stand when people claim to be a part of these groups only to turn around and say the most horrendously bigoted BS that I’ve ever heard. There’s no singular correct way to be involved in these subcultures, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a wrong way. These assholes have clearly found that wrong way.
@@Mars-jf4gy definitely, when people say someone isn't "punk enough" because they don't dress a certain way or they don't listen to exclusively punk music and nothing else that's annoying because punk doesn't have one specific look, but there definitely is situations where gatekeeping should be a thing, and fascism is definitely one of them.
punk is inherently anti-fascism, and the people who desperately try to claim that it isn't are gross as hell and don't understand the meaning of being punk, it's not a matter of opinion, that's just what punk is.
Regarding the book thing I think John green put it perfectly. He said, "And I think efforts to ban books are often efforts to restrict empathy".
Perks of having post notifications on! ❤ been binge watching your videos today
this is unrelated but ur so pretty-
@@chrissyswifey Thank you so much! That just made my whole day
@@clarece7522 aww🥺
As a pagan, I view Jesus, and beings like him, as an entity.
One of the entities of all time.
What's really funny is she said "if you go outside you'll become Christian" but going outside made me wiccan.
@@k4nd1incyb3rsp4c3 same, except I'm Norse and Celtic pagan
@@hellbound_psyker she thought we'd be like "wow, nature is beautiful, god must exist since he made all this" but what actually happened is we said "wow, nature is beautiful, I'm going to worship it."
@@k4nd1incyb3rsp4c3 SAME
and it’s hard to take “Christian’s” seriously when they are all for destroying earth with capitalism and not actually being grateful for earth and nature and how it provides us the ability to exist.
Edit: cuz god forbid they didn’t have all these culdasacs deforesting the world just so they can segregate themselves from the “peasants” Lmao it’s kinda funny but depressing more than anything
Because even in their glass neighborhoods they still have no sense of true community
Issa identity crisis. You can't say this but in the Black community colorism and tokenism breed people like this all the time. They want to be accepted by people who won't accept them and so go hard AF to be that one Black friend they're always preaching about.
I think my favorite bible quote to tell people like her is "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"
James 4:12 KJV, usually makes them quiet
Am i confused? Yes
Am i surprised? No
"I don't think you deserve to be alive," shouldn't be a debate, it shouldn't be seen as a mere "difference of opinion."
Like, seriously, if someone came up to her and said, "you deserve to burn in hell!" would she REALLY be cool with sitting there and "debating" her right to exist?
in my experience, americans tend to confuse communism and fascism because they dont know what the words actually mean and refuse to learn
This was so great to wake up to. It made my 5AM shift so much brighter; thank you Kiwi
hey!!! i fucken love your shirt for one, and two, i'm so so grateful for you and your content, thank you so much.
I used to work with a "conservative goth" and she was perhaps one of the meanest people I've ever met. Like, she's definitely in the top 5. She was mean to everybody except this one guy because she was into him. But she was ESPECIALLY mean to me because me and her had a similar fashion sense (even though I don't consider myself goth) and the guy that she was into was into me and not her. She only lasted a few weeks at work before she was fired. And the funny thing is that she was transferred to our workplace from another workplace because she was being mean to people.
She's now pretty popular on TikTok and surprise surprise, she's still mean!
Press X to doubt.
No surprise there. It's like people refuse to get out of this high school bully phase as adults for some reason.
@@chris135xNope. I've met plenty of conservatives. Some of them are nice, some of them are kind, and many of them are horrible egocentric people who rant all day about how the left are destroying everything and they're totally A holes. Sorry you don't like the truth.
Damn she made up a conservative goth wtf girl it's so contradictory and she's even all serious about it it's embarrassing💀
Goth community deffo disowns her
no one asked for your permission, im still goth too
@@Strange9952 idgaf
It’s Miss ‘Be gay but not too gay’ returning to the channel.
Also, the Bible is basically ‘The Communist Manifesto’. Karl Marx who? (Jk)
Will be reading "The Naked Communist" now, thanks for the rec bestie
Is Gothix still doing that thing where she'll just read random statistics vaguely related to the topic at hand with no source or context, do the Dreamworks smirk and declare she's won the argument forever?
Yes
I'm sorry but if your "opinion" invalidates people, calls people names, or calls for the freedom to hurt people, then that opinion is already not civil. You can't have a civil debate if you started it with anything hurtful.
She keeps quoting verses like it’s some sort of own. She doesn’t even try to explain why she’s quoting those verses or why it even matters what the Bible says at all. It’s so infuriating
She’s a walking “bible but Jesus forgot the context” video
A woman who I once spoke who was a member of the Pentecostal Church (not the most trans-friendly branches of religions) once said it like this: "People who find support in their faith through scripture because of what they read in the Bible. Good, wonderful. The problem starts when there are people who interpret this scripture and in turn think that interpretation is the only true way to live, and try to convince others that they need to live according to their interpretation. That's the biggest danger."
I think she was very well aware of the problems religion can have and was not afraid to call out some of the problems it can cause.
She can be conservative and goth if she wants to, but that's not gonna change what the vast majority of the subculture stands up for and believes in. She's only setting herself up for frustration lol. Also no one is gonna want her preaching in the club. We're here to listen to music ma'am not debate whether or not half of us here are conforming to your idea of gender.
Why is it so hard for people to be a good person if you need a book to tell you to be a good person thats pretty sad when you can just be a decent person
I love Queer Kiwi and Gothix frustrates the shit out of me every time so I LOVE seeing one of my favorite RUclipsrs react to one of my least favorite RUclipsrs. Thanks for this video, I loved every second of it!!!
I love how she “cites” a book written by a conservative to explain the “rules of communism.” the amount of cognitive dissonance conservatives experience on a daily basis is mind-boggling. Everything that leaves their mouths is a drooling-on-the-floor take.
Can we talk about the fact that she’s not actually goth… wearing all black doesn’t automatically make you goth.
As someone who grew up within the church and went to a private school and is now an atheist, Christianity did nothing for me other than give me religious trauma and the ability to argue with people like this because of my background and knowledge of the religion. I wish people like this would listen to themselves talk and really read the passages around the verses they throw like darts at people
Using my gothly powers to gatekeep her
gatekeeping is okay when we do it
"People who watch us fight are the enemy" Omfg are *we* the enemy ?
I don't mind
I *think* she was referring to the "elites".
14:40
Well, to be fair, I'm from Ukraine which was under USSR for a long time. There was ethnic cleansing, starvation, and much more the communist rule. All without US intervention.
"If you ask anyone from Eastern Europe how communism works they will tell you it doesn't" - my sociology teacher's Slovak husband.
Ok but what about socialism? I'm just trying to find something that works better then what is going on now
I wish you had addressed the book that she was basing her arguments from. Not the Bible, but The Naked Communist. The author of that book was known to be a conspiracy theorist, an extremist, and even a nutjob... Even by others on the political right, and even by others of the time it was written (more than 60 years ago).
Depends on the background of the agency. I've been to a few therapists in a religious based mental health agency (which offered more than just therapy, but that's what most of my participation was) and also several non religious mental health agencies, and I can say that I never heard anything about religion even in the religion based agencies unless I brought it up in session first.
Also, if you have government insurance, it will cover your treatment if you're obviously struggling to maintain a decent life or have already been diagnosed, but even if they paid for it, the insurance is the asshole, not the people up top.
The people 'up top' are the ones who decide what that insurance is required to cover. The people 'up top' are also the ones that decide how much doctors, clinics, and hospitals are paid for providing those services- which is why the USAmerican Healthcare system has ballooned to absurd degrees. It's also why many doctors and clinics have stopped taking government insurance.
The people 'up top' dictate what the insurance covers, so if something isn't covered or isn't sufficiently covered, it *is* their fault.
@@alchemysaga3745 You right, you right, I was only thinking in terms of people who live on benefits (like me) and not int general
this is totally unrelated to how good the video was, I went to your site to see what links you have there in terms of petitions and donations, and I found Lebanon?? Palestine??? Yemen???? honestly such a slay I'm so happy someone outside of our region gives a shit 😭😭😭 ty for this (I'm lebanese btw)
I just started this video and heard you were gonna be talking about Gothix being hypocritical and I thought …. Wait what did the goths do?! 😂😂😂
unrelated but I love the "I did not ask to be born" shirt because mood
I need merch from you, you’re 1000% my favorite creator and have been for at least 4 months!!
as a christian communist, id like to say the title worked and i clicked
"I follow Marilyn Mason, but I obey Rush Limbaugh."
“You will learn by reading but you will understand with love.”
And on the religion, I'm pagan and I believe that none of the religions are "correct" That's just where I stand, but I don't pressure others into believing what I believe. I'm also aware that the positivity I feel from my deities could be placebo affect, I just don't care. The effects I get from my faith are real, even if the cause is more scientific
Wow, her whole video was literally her being a major hypocrite. This was one of your best videos yet. You obliterated all of her points with perfect sense and just the right amount of humor. 😂👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
43:05 lol, fr tho
“Women have never been told to smile”
Ben Shapiro clearly wasn’t around when the internet was attacking Brie Larson during Captain marvel for that exact thing
Im a leftist queer Christian this video's gonna be great
Yes you can be goth and conservative or Republican.
Is she even AWARE of how hard is it to “close down” a church? Many people would LOVE to take down terrible and disgusting churches, but religion is the be all, end all of North America, that will likely not change for a very long time.
To answer ur question there Gothix: It's not the church that's really the issue or even the religion. It's not that people are upset with those things they're upset when people are using their religion to hurt other people or trying to force their beliefs onto others. If u want to practice a religion or not is entirely up to u but when ur telling other people how to live their lives & that they must follow ur faith exactly like u do that's when we have an issue
To say the church didn't hurt people is acting as though residential schools didn't happen and that LGBT+ people weren't hurt either. Her arguments are so stupid it hurts my brain.
The tittle of this video made me think of the time back when I was still forced to go to church. I wore a black sweater with little golden crosses on it to a church party/function. And one of the church leaders walked up to me and was like I like your sweater it’s goth and Christian just like you. And I was just like who said I was goth or Christian.
25:02 there’s actually a psychological thing behind this, it’s called the six stages of moral development and it’s by lawrence kohlberg. it says that as people get older, their morals are defined by different things, which are
punishment
reward
social acceptance
obedience
lawfulness
equality (not everyone gets to this stage)
i think that’s correct lol, but it’s a really interesting concept and i’d recommend looking into it further
omg thank u for doing this video, u are absolutely right. my mom and her family lived under communism and literally everything u said is right. also, being alternative and being conservative are 2 things that like u said, CANNOT coexist. so thank u so so so much for spreading awareness (i speak as a communist goth). i'm sending u so much love from Italy🫶
Coming from someone who has spent decades working within the Goth community and serving it as a member of it: You are spot on.
I have run into a large number of white supremacist (like *openly* white supremacist) Goths over the years. For the most part, the community just lets them be (which is a major problem for any minority members of the community of course).
This same laissez-faire attitude is prevalent in many related communities, largely in the US, as is the same attitude about them, unfortunately.
American, conservatives, particularly, are just fascists who find that word distasteful without finding the practices associated with that word distasteful. Open identification with that movement is a concession that they either support the elimination of people they deem undesirable or find political moves towards that elimination to not be a dealbreaker. Either way, they aren't worth the conversation anymore.
Spot on!
Omg i knew a girl almost exactly like this. She was a christian goth and one of those "allies" (suuuuper heavy on the quotations), she was also a HUUUGE hypocrite because she did the dirty and judged and was generally a really annoying person who had the "sweet enough to give you cavities" personality that thinks that phrase is a compliment and not calling her fake. She alienated all of her friends and was either clueless over how little people liked her or chose to ignore it. Last i heard she was attempting to be a content creator and failing because none of the christians, goths, or lgbtq communities wanted her and she rejected the people part of the chiristian goth community because she thought they were "doing it wrong" and were "fake," unlike her so shes just, all alone
As a pagan who has issues with Christianity, I have never had issues with Jesus. Most of his messages are things that I agree with and how he went against the Roman Empire is super interesting to me
EXACTLY. I have issues with most version of the Bible, Old and New Testament included, but I do not have an issue with Jesus Christ himself. In fact, I fins the history and mythology behind the true version of him infinitely interesting
Idk how to start this but- Your makeup looks absolutely amazing and your hair just looks so soft and fluffy and pretty and- you get the idea but you just look like such an adorable bean today- well everyday but your makeup and hair just makes you look so soft TvT
I'm so sick of religious people conflating being a devout follower of their faith with morally good behaviour. If a religious person does what their scripture deems morally right in order to avoid divine punishment or gain divine reward (like heaven or hell respectively in the case of Christianity), then those choices aren't based on morals, they're selfish. Morals are about what's the right thing to do for your community, people as a whole, sentient animals or even the entire world, depending on how holistic your views are. Morally good people do good things because they want to have a positive impact on others, not because some kind of doctrine tells them to.
i luv that you're still rockin the rainbow hair 💕
(💁🏼♀ i've been RE-dying my same color streaks for the past DECADE)
Pov ever conservative: jesus IS the answer YOU CAN NIT BELIVE ANYTHING ELSE
-The crazy conservative old lady
"HAIL APHRODITE." She is the answer
I do believe we CAN have civil discussions. But when it comes to basic human rights it’s like really ? If you’re religious and you’re against basic human rights, you’re against your own religion
JC was the rebellious lefty son of an almighty MAGA dad..and pops co-opted and skewed the message after he was sacrificed.
Just a theory (..could make a fun little sect out of this).
Never heard of this woman before, kind of annoyed that I now do but still love the QK's analysis, as always.
Yoo this is the earliest I've ever been