I have a VTX1800R. I had it dynotuned. They starting air to fuel ratio was 12 to 1. They set the full throtlle mixture to 13 to 1. the part throttle is leaner but I was not given a number. the horsepower started at 88.24 at 4,900 rpm. it went to 95.42 at 5,000 rpm. the torque started at 110.21 at 3,300 rpm and went to 118.63 at 3,300 rpm. the torque is over 100 at 2,100 rpm. I have not rode the bike much since it has been tuned. I did notice it pulls smoother in high gear at a lower speed. I had it tuned mainly to improve fuel mileage which was averaging about 31.
Thanks for the video.. As a former car drag racer HP was the focus but the V twin in my Ultra is def a different animal. Thanks for helping keep things in perspective.
Harley torque curves remind me of a desiel engine. Pulling power down low. Suits me fine, I don't wanna rev mind to the moon! I just want to cruise these days. Thanks guys. Keep up the good work 👍
Great explanation. Folks always toss around HP numbers but really have no idea as to what they really mean - other than "it's a bigger number" than my buddy. Torque is king and the V-Twin motor is at the top.
When you are talking about air fuel ratio, what does the 13, 14, or 15 mean. Is it part fuel to air or air to fuel? I don’t understand the values of these numbers.
Fuel doesn't burn on its own. It has to be mixed with air. AFR tells you how many parts of air are mixed with each part of fuel. For example, a 14.7:1 AFR (or just 14.7) means the mixture is 14.7 parts air to one part fuel. Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
@@DKCustomProducts I knew it was air to fuel, but wondered what part the 14.7 was. Thank you 👍🏻🤓 I have a FP4 and it is saying air fuel ratio bounces around 12 to 15 AFR. I LOVE the live data logger 😁
I just had my 114 dynod it has s&s 475, Bassani 2-1 and Arlen ness intake. 102 hp and 116 tq. The afr is at 13 across the board. Everything I’ve seen online is showing I should be getting a lot more out of the cam. Any advice?
While the list below is not complete, these are the 3 things I would do if it was my bike. 1. That exhaust is going to have reversion, which robs power. You can add a TTI to it and get a bump in power. See video on this subject here- ruclips.net/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/видео.html 2. That air cleaner is feeding hot, oily, oxygen depleted air into the combustion chambers, which robs power. You can add an External Breather System to that air cleaner and pick up some power. See video on this subject here- ruclips.net/video/EfDeFZblMck/видео.html 3. 13 is too rich for max power in closed loop and too lean for max power in heavy open loop. Last thing, it is not possible for me to know how hot the bike got on the dyno, but if the bike hit 270 F or more on the dyno, that is a huge power robber. Here is a video showing just that happening on a bike we had on the dyno, along with charts showing how much power it dropped. ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html Also, here is a written report on the subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/sleeper-performance-mods.htm One more thing to keep in mind. Every dyno will read a bit different than others, and the ambient temp and humidity Does make a difference. Even though dyno's are supposed to correct for that, it is really not very effective. The same exact bike can be on a dyno in a dyno room that is 65 f low humidity and produce one chart, and then it can be on the same dyno, everything the same, but put the temp in the dyno room at 90 F and high humidity, and it will be a very different chart. And of course, dyno tuning is a hit a miss affair. It is totally dependent on the experience/skill of the human running the dyno...and even a skilled dyno tuner can have a bad day. We have done a video exploring all the ins and outs of getting a good tune, you can see it here- ruclips.net/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/видео.html Hope that helps.
Do you tune with powervision1? If so PM me a price for you to dyno tune my 13sg. Mods are as follows. Stock bore/compression, 2-1 sharkroad pipe, se heavy breather and .574 Chris rivas rocket cams. The tune I got from dynojet runs good but part throttle it's like it's missing or sputtering until you Raise/lower the throttle. Wfo runs really well.
DK Custom does not do dyno tuning. If we were going to have a bike dyno tuned we would use J&T V-Twin Repair & Mobile Dyno- 901-584-5760. HOWEVER, watch these two videos linked below to see what we do instead of dyno tuning- ruclips.net/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/qVEhzU0sMYE/видео.html
I have a twin cam 110 with 10:5:1 compression fueling 594 cams mva heads and bassani road rage exhaust and its only making 105 horse power and 114.93 torque it also feels like it cuts off briefly around 3500 rpm the numbers seem to low for the build. Are these numbers normal ?
Those numbers seem low. The dip is almost assuredly a tune issue...if the dip/flat spot were lower in the RPM band, I would say it is because of reversion in the exhaust, which would be fixed with TTI's, but if it is pulling strong up til 3500, then flattening out, that sounds more like a tuning issue. You did not mention what tuner you are using?
@@DKCustomProducts Hey DK the harley dealership tuned it with a power vision. I had a cracked piston they covered it under warranty installed the rocket cams Chris Rivas 110 cylinder kit Carillo CP pistons and the MVA heads. Definitely pulled harder before without the MVA heads so your probably right about a tuning issue. Also when I bought it it had basically the same setup minus the mva heads and they just through a stage 1 canned tune according to the paperwork.
@racex3721 Yeah, I would look at getting it tuned for your setup. Here is a video you may find helpful - ruclips.net/video/qVEhzU0sMYE/видео.html I think you would benefit from a Power Vision with a tune for your setup. You can see the Power Vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns: Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828
These guys are missing the whole thing with horsepower and torque. The higher the horsepower an engine has the faster the available torque can work. You take a diesel truck that weighs 6,000 lbs and just say it has 100,000 lb feet of torque but it only has 300 horsepower my Civic with 190 HP and 190 lb feet of torque will destroy it on acceleration even though the truck has an extremely higher torque to weight ratio. And yes of course the truck will be able to haul more etc But it's going to accelerate extremely slow but it will be able to pull the whole world haha. for pure performance acceleration from stop light to stop light etc is horsepower to weight ratio. Because you can have torque without horsepower but you cannot have horsepower without torque. Because horsepower is how fast your torque can work.
Uhhh, we are talking about typical riding Harley's in this video...and we reference the video in this link- ruclips.net/video/DOxzN8r35O4/видео.html in this video. As you will note in the video linked above, Harley does not even publish Horsepower numbers, they focus exclusively on the torque.
@@DKCustomProducts That's exactly why a CBR 650r at 460 lbs with only 43 lb feet of torque at the rear wheel will destroy Harley-Davidson motorcycles on acceleration if it was all about torque the Harley-Davidson with over 120 lb feet feet of torque should beat it. But no the CBR has a significantly higher horsepower to weight ratio which is what matters for acceleration. Now if you're talking about putting a lot of weight on a motorcycle yes the one with higher torque will be less affected you can put 1000 pound feet of torque on a motorcycle if it has low horsepower the acceleration will be slow. If you don't believe me look at the semi truck look at the dump truck extremely high torque but really really low horsepower.
The key on why the CBR out accelerates is that it is running over 5200 rpm. It it was run at lower rpm (where torque is important) it would not out accelerate a Harley. Since HD's primarily run below 5200 rpm, torque is what is important. Also, the feel of torque on acceleration is very different than what HP feels like at higher RPM.
@@DKCustomProducts Yes but you're missing the point. Horsepower and torque are the same thing. You get your horsepower number by calculating your torque x 5252 RPMs. The best performing Harley-Davidsons on the streets are the ones that flash the ECU and increase their rev limiter and therefore increase horsepower. If it was all about torque Harley-Davidson would be faster then almost every single Honda motorcycle on the road in acceleration but it's the opposite because Honda has a high higher horsepower to weight ratio than Harley-Davidson. I personally have a 2021 Honda Rebel 1100 it weighs 500 lbs with my accessories. Has 83.77 horsepower and and 67.79 lb feet of torque that was on the dyno at the rear wheel completely stock besides for a two brother slip-on exhaust. My uncle has a 2014 Harley Davidson ultra limited with a stage 4 tune 133 lb feet of torque at the rear wheel and 120 horsepower. He can't even begin to keep up with me on acceleration like it's not even close. As of yet I have never lost in a race against a Harley-Davidson from a stoplight I have 15,000 miles on my motorcycle and trust me a lot of Harley-Davidson guys have tried. The rebel 1100 0 to 60 is about 3.4-3.5 seconds. I'm not saying torque is bad it has its place but if you're looking for pure performance if you have low horsepower and high torque that's not going to get you good acceleration. High torque engines always have lower horsepower and that always slows them down on acceleration dump trucks semi trucks diesel trucks Harley-Davidsons ECT.
I would be careful going too lean on 98 octane fuel. You are correct, Higher octane fuels can withstand higher compression ratios without causing knocking or pre-detonation. This can allow engines to run safely with a leaner mixture under certain conditions, or to utilize more advanced timing settings for improved performance. With a Harley engine, you just don't want to get too hot. Thanks for commenting! KP
I have a VTX1800R. I had it dynotuned. They starting air to fuel ratio was 12 to 1. They set the full throtlle mixture to 13 to 1. the part throttle is leaner but I was not given a number. the horsepower started at 88.24 at 4,900 rpm. it went to 95.42 at 5,000 rpm. the torque started at 110.21 at 3,300 rpm and went to 118.63 at 3,300 rpm. the torque is over 100 at 2,100 rpm. I have not rode the bike much since it has been tuned. I did notice it pulls smoother in high gear at a lower speed. I had it tuned mainly to improve fuel mileage which was averaging about 31.
Good add. Thank you! 👍
Thanks for the video.. As a former car drag racer HP was the focus but the V twin in my Ultra is def a different animal. Thanks for helping keep things in perspective.
Thank you for the comment. Glad you liked the video. 👍
Torue is king of the hill. I want the hard pull when I hit the throttle. HP is important but definitely secondary in seat of the pants response.
Absolutely! Torque is what most of feel, and want to feel as much as we can! 👍😎👍
Harley torque curves remind me of a desiel engine. Pulling power down low. Suits me fine, I don't wanna rev mind to the moon! I just want to cruise these days. Thanks guys. Keep up the good work 👍
Yes. Many folks liken their Harley to pulling like a tractor. Thanks for the comment. 👍
Great explanation. Folks always toss around HP numbers but really have no idea as to what they really mean - other than "it's a bigger number" than my buddy. Torque is king and the V-Twin motor is at the top.
True that!
Thanks for the dyno explanation, the whys and what’s important.
👍
When you are talking about air fuel ratio, what does the 13, 14, or 15 mean. Is it part fuel to air or air to fuel? I don’t understand the values of these numbers.
Fuel doesn't burn on its own. It has to be mixed with air. AFR tells you how many parts of air are mixed with each part of fuel. For example, a 14.7:1 AFR (or just 14.7) means the mixture is 14.7 parts air to one part fuel.
Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
@@DKCustomProducts I knew it was air to fuel, but wondered what part the 14.7 was. Thank you 👍🏻🤓 I have a FP4 and it is saying air fuel ratio bounces around 12 to 15 AFR. I LOVE the live data logger 😁
Tuners with live data are nice! Thank you for commenting! 👍MB
How’s the bike build coming along ?
Absolutely nothing done on it since the last video. Depressing, but hopefully we will get to working on it this year.
I just had my 114 dynod it has s&s 475, Bassani 2-1 and Arlen ness intake. 102 hp and 116 tq. The afr is at 13 across the board. Everything I’ve seen online is showing I should be getting a lot more out of the cam. Any advice?
While the list below is not complete, these are the 3 things I would do if it was my bike.
1. That exhaust is going to have reversion, which robs power. You can add a TTI to it and get a bump in power. See video on this subject here- ruclips.net/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/видео.html
2. That air cleaner is feeding hot, oily, oxygen depleted air into the combustion chambers, which robs power. You can add an External Breather System to that air cleaner and pick up some power. See video on this subject here- ruclips.net/video/EfDeFZblMck/видео.html
3. 13 is too rich for max power in closed loop and too lean for max power in heavy open loop.
Last thing, it is not possible for me to know how hot the bike got on the dyno, but if the bike hit 270 F or more on the dyno, that is a huge power robber. Here is a video showing just that happening on a bike we had on the dyno, along with charts showing how much power it dropped.
ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
Also, here is a written report on the subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/sleeper-performance-mods.htm
One more thing to keep in mind. Every dyno will read a bit different than others, and the ambient temp and humidity Does make a difference. Even though dyno's are supposed to correct for that, it is really not very effective. The same exact bike can be on a dyno in a dyno room that is 65 f low humidity and produce one chart, and then it can be on the same dyno, everything the same, but put the temp in the dyno room at 90 F and high humidity, and it will be a very different chart.
And of course, dyno tuning is a hit a miss affair. It is totally dependent on the experience/skill of the human running the dyno...and even a skilled dyno tuner can have a bad day. We have done a video exploring all the ins and outs of getting a good tune, you can see it here- ruclips.net/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/видео.html
Hope that helps.
Do you tune with powervision1? If so PM me a price for you to dyno tune my 13sg. Mods are as follows. Stock bore/compression, 2-1 sharkroad pipe, se heavy breather and .574 Chris rivas rocket cams. The tune I got from dynojet runs good but part throttle it's like it's missing or sputtering until you Raise/lower the throttle. Wfo runs really well.
DK Custom does not do dyno tuning. If we were going to have a bike dyno tuned we would use J&T V-Twin Repair & Mobile Dyno- 901-584-5760.
HOWEVER, watch these two videos linked below to see what we do instead of dyno tuning-
ruclips.net/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/qVEhzU0sMYE/видео.html
I have a twin cam 110 with 10:5:1 compression fueling 594 cams mva heads and bassani road rage exhaust and its only making 105 horse power and 114.93 torque it also feels like it cuts off briefly around 3500 rpm the numbers seem to low for the build. Are these numbers normal ?
Those numbers seem low.
The dip is almost assuredly a tune issue...if the dip/flat spot were lower in the RPM band, I would say it is because of reversion in the exhaust, which would be fixed with TTI's, but if it is pulling strong up til 3500, then flattening out, that sounds more like a tuning issue.
You did not mention what tuner you are using?
@@DKCustomProducts Hey DK the harley dealership tuned it with a power vision. I had a cracked piston they covered it under warranty installed the rocket cams Chris Rivas 110 cylinder kit Carillo CP pistons and the MVA heads. Definitely pulled harder before without the MVA heads so your probably right about a tuning issue. Also when I bought it it had basically the same setup minus the mva heads and they just through a stage 1 canned tune according to the paperwork.
@racex3721 Yeah, I would look at getting it tuned for your setup.
Here is a video you may find helpful - ruclips.net/video/qVEhzU0sMYE/видео.html
I think you would benefit from a Power Vision with a tune for your setup.
You can see the Power Vision at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns:
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Great video as usual
Glad you enjoyed. Thank you. 👍
No mention of the V-Rod at all 🤦🏻
Nope. Sorry. Sportsters, Dynas, Softails, Baggers & Trikes. Have not ventured into any of HD other attempts in the market.
Another Informative Full Torque Video. 😎👍🇨🇦
😃 Thanks. 👍
Good video!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed. 👍
The Dream Team 😎😎
lol, We're the ones that drew the short straws. j/k, we enjoy doing the vids. 👍
Good info, now maybe new users will understand the truth and myths about Harley's
Hey Jack. Yes, perhaps. Thanks for your comment. 👍
These guys are missing the whole thing with horsepower and torque. The higher the horsepower an engine has the faster the available torque can work. You take a diesel truck that weighs 6,000 lbs and just say it has 100,000 lb feet of torque but it only has 300 horsepower my Civic with 190 HP and 190 lb feet of torque will destroy it on acceleration even though the truck has an extremely higher torque to weight ratio. And yes of course the truck will be able to haul more etc But it's going to accelerate extremely slow but it will be able to pull the whole world haha. for pure performance acceleration from stop light to stop light etc is horsepower to weight ratio. Because you can have torque without horsepower but you cannot have horsepower without torque. Because horsepower is how fast your torque can work.
Uhhh, we are talking about typical riding Harley's in this video...and we reference the video in this link- ruclips.net/video/DOxzN8r35O4/видео.html in this video.
As you will note in the video linked above, Harley does not even publish Horsepower numbers, they focus exclusively on the torque.
@@DKCustomProducts That's exactly why a CBR 650r at 460 lbs with only 43 lb feet of torque at the rear wheel will destroy Harley-Davidson motorcycles on acceleration if it was all about torque the Harley-Davidson with over 120 lb feet feet of torque should beat it. But no the CBR has a significantly higher horsepower to weight ratio which is what matters for acceleration. Now if you're talking about putting a lot of weight on a motorcycle yes the one with higher torque will be less affected you can put 1000 pound feet of torque on a motorcycle if it has low horsepower the acceleration will be slow. If you don't believe me look at the semi truck look at the dump truck extremely high torque but really really low horsepower.
The key on why the CBR out accelerates is that it is running over 5200 rpm. It it was run at lower rpm (where torque is important) it would not out accelerate a Harley. Since HD's primarily run below 5200 rpm, torque is what is important. Also, the feel of torque on acceleration is very different than what HP feels like at higher RPM.
@@DKCustomProducts Yes but you're missing the point. Horsepower and torque are the same thing. You get your horsepower number by calculating your torque x 5252 RPMs. The best performing Harley-Davidsons on the streets are the ones that flash the ECU and increase their rev limiter and therefore increase horsepower. If it was all about torque Harley-Davidson would be faster then almost every single Honda motorcycle on the road in acceleration but it's the opposite because Honda has a high higher horsepower to weight ratio than Harley-Davidson. I personally have a 2021 Honda Rebel 1100 it weighs 500 lbs with my accessories. Has 83.77 horsepower and and 67.79 lb feet of torque that was on the dyno at the rear wheel completely stock besides for a two brother slip-on exhaust. My uncle has a 2014 Harley Davidson ultra limited with a stage 4 tune 133 lb feet of torque at the rear wheel and 120 horsepower. He can't even begin to keep up with me on acceleration like it's not even close. As of yet I have never lost in a race against a Harley-Davidson from a stoplight I have 15,000 miles on my motorcycle and trust me a lot of Harley-Davidson guys have tried. The rebel 1100 0 to 60 is about 3.4-3.5 seconds. I'm not saying torque is bad it has its place but if you're looking for pure performance if you have low horsepower and high torque that's not going to get you good acceleration. High torque engines always have lower horsepower and that always slows them down on acceleration dump trucks semi trucks diesel trucks Harley-Davidsons ECT.
@@DKCustomProducts ruclips.net/video/mRROa_plpTc/видео.html
for your 91 octane fuel maybe but other countries run 95-98 so thats way to rich for your AFR,s
I would be careful going too lean on 98 octane fuel.
You are correct, Higher octane fuels can withstand higher compression ratios without causing knocking or pre-detonation. This can allow engines to run safely with a leaner mixture under certain conditions, or to utilize more advanced timing settings for improved performance.
With a Harley engine, you just don't want to get too hot.
Thanks for commenting! KP