Wow! That's impressive! I appreciate what you share to help us wannabes learn more of what it takes to make horsepower. You can't make everyone happy keep doing how you do man
getting that narrow sweep is very important,, in the center of the valve is not AKA mid lift geometry do use knurled guides or knurl and hone the guides to hold some oil? I od hone/ cross hatch the valves huge gains congrats
When considering valvetrain weights, it's typical engineering practice to consider 33% of cylindrical valvespring weight in valvetrain weight calculations. Springs with multiple inactive coils can be considered at 25%. Of course, the valve, retainer and locks are factored in at 100%.
Good tradeoff on the intake valve and spring/retainer weight. IMO the spring pressure from mid lift to full open where the valve train is accelerating the most is more important than seat pressure
@WeingartnerRacing yes it makes more power if you are limited on lift, otherwise it's better to build the extra area into the cam and smoothly control it
Those heads are nice!!! Have you had any experience with stock hollow Ls3 valves? Are they any good for stock 821 heads and I'm building a street and maybe an occasional track day. Burn outs and ice cream mostly lol.
I have a real question, but first, I had never heard of that other flow bench you use until I started watching you, say 2 years ago now.. It seems like all the shops I've been in use the SuperFlow SF 750 or their older model the SF 600 bench. Why wouldn't the SuperFlow that most shops use and been around a long time not be the more consistent one? I know their trans and engine stan dynos are very popular too
The Saenz bench is superior to the Superflow. It has way more capacity and spools faster. The superflow benches seem to have more variance from bench to bench even though they are calibrated correctly. This may be due to people using not accurate bore fixtures and plates to mount the head correctly to the bore. Their dynos vary from place to place as well. As far as consistency both will repeat within 1cfm from day to day.
I've see many posts of guys who, with the help of a spintron, are running much lighter spring pressures and spinning their BBC engines to 8000+ rpm. I'm talking like 190 on the seat with large lift cams! Also, since you have micro welding on the retainers, wouldnt it be better to consider a change of spring pressures? Or, just set up closer to coil bind?
Hey Eric, Tim here, was watchin another vid, older gentleman, forget the name......(my age aint helpin my memory)......anyhoo, he's got AFR heads for a 406 SBC....from Skip White......he did a leak down b4 install, they leaked......Skip said put 'em on anyway, they'll work in......i disagree, if lapped properly (and we got the bounce) shud be no leaks.......what are ur thoughts on that scenario, sorry, i know its un-related to this vid.....just curious of ur opinion......he's gotten a ton from machinists, race motor builders etc......what ur take?
You mentioned closer to coil bind... do you target distance to bind rather than installed height? Or have a distance to bind with undeflected lift preference?
The mass of the valve train on those units, has to be high. Normal units we get to play with, here in the UK, that are OHC with shim under bucket and rev no hight than 8000 rpm, generally need no more than 70-90Lbs on the seat and 180-200 over the nose. Of course were only making 135hp from 1 Ltr. and the unit is only 2Ltrs 🏴🧑🏼🔧
Goes to show you can't just race flow benches. At first glance you might think the AFR 357 is better, outflowing until 0.700 with a smaller cross section flowed on a smaller bore, untill you show the 600 numbers that is. And still don't know if you're running the same radius plate and pipe... Looks like a nice setup 👍.
You cannot compare flow numbers from different places. The proof is in the stock flow of the AFR 345cc it flows much less on my bench than what AFR claims.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks Ed Iskenderian developed his (for a long time only) .904 lifter cam for our Max Wedge 413. He got most of his springs from So cal (pre PAC) I would think that someone would build nested conical with a range of pressures
My builder had my engine on his dyno and it started to float at about. He used the same valve springs but the cam is different from what he usually uses. I figured the cam may be faster ramp or something but now I wonder if the springs maybe different. It’s just a street motor. He’ll get it fixed, he’s the pro not me and he wouldn’t give me junk. You’ve just learned me and I’m thinking. Thank you.
Probably like you were told in school, “show your math”. Think it would go a long way toward justifying your course with these heads and other induction systems, demonstrate your professionalism, abilities, and maybe, reduce the number of sh*t talkers making criticisms. Thanks for sharing your sound reasoning regarding the valve spring package, but, think you should have included the importance of rigidity in the rest of the valve train, to make it work reliably.
@@WeingartnerRacingthat’s the window licking f-tards that can’t watch and actually learn something, it’s got to be entertaining. Pretty sorry people out there. I enjoy your videos. Always good information!
Wow! That's impressive! I appreciate what you share to help us wannabes learn more of what it takes to make horsepower. You can't make everyone happy keep doing how you do man
Appreciate your videos and taking the time to share your knowledge and experience! Great job mate 👍
awesome jawb Eric. greets fromCPH dinmarc EU scandinawia
Really beautiful work, and good numbers. Now we just need to fill up a piggy bank to get you an EM69HP so you can get out of that grinding room!
getting that narrow sweep is very important,, in the center of the valve is not AKA mid lift geometry
do use knurled guides or knurl and hone the guides to hold some oil? I od hone/ cross hatch the valves
huge gains congrats
When considering valvetrain weights, it's typical engineering practice to consider 33% of cylindrical valvespring weight in valvetrain weight calculations. Springs with multiple inactive coils can be considered at 25%. Of course, the valve, retainer and locks are factored in at 100%.
thats much better now.
Good tradeoff on the intake valve and spring/retainer weight. IMO the spring pressure from mid lift to full open where the valve train is accelerating the most is more important than seat pressure
Valve float is where it bounces off the seat, which is why seat pressures are important.
@@WeingartnerRacing what about lofting over the nose and bouncing on the downslope all the way into the seat?
@@treyrags that tears up the lifter but if done right makes more power.
@WeingartnerRacing yes it makes more power if you are limited on lift, otherwise it's better to build the extra area into the cam and smoothly control it
Nice work ! Great info !
I run a set of AFR 345s as cast on my 555. That much improvement would gain a lot of power up in the RPMs
Hell yeah that's very good
Those heads are nice!!! Have you had any experience with stock hollow Ls3 valves? Are they any good for stock 821 heads and I'm building a street and maybe an occasional track day. Burn outs and ice cream mostly lol.
I have a real question, but first, I had never heard of that other flow bench you use until I started watching you, say 2 years ago now.. It seems like all the shops I've been in use the SuperFlow SF 750 or their older model the SF 600 bench. Why wouldn't the SuperFlow that most shops use and been around a long time not be the more consistent one? I know their trans and engine stan dynos are very popular too
The Saenz bench is superior to the Superflow. It has way more capacity and spools faster. The superflow benches seem to have more variance from bench to bench even though they are calibrated correctly. This may be due to people using not accurate bore fixtures and plates to mount the head correctly to the bore. Their dynos vary from place to place as well. As far as consistency both will repeat within 1cfm from day to day.
I've see many posts of guys who, with the help of a spintron, are running much lighter spring pressures and spinning their BBC engines to 8000+ rpm. I'm talking like 190 on the seat with large lift cams! Also, since you have micro welding on the retainers, wouldnt it be better to consider a change of spring pressures? Or, just set up closer to coil bind?
Hey Eric,
Tim here, was watchin another vid, older gentleman, forget the name......(my age aint helpin my memory)......anyhoo, he's got AFR heads for a 406 SBC....from Skip White......he did a leak down b4 install, they leaked......Skip said put 'em on anyway, they'll work in......i disagree, if lapped properly (and we got the bounce) shud be no leaks.......what are ur thoughts on that scenario, sorry, i know its un-related to this vid.....just curious of ur opinion......he's gotten a ton from machinists, race motor builders etc......what ur take?
would it not have been better to go to a beehive or conical spring?
They typically don't have enough spring pressure.
You mentioned closer to coil bind... do you target distance to bind rather than installed height? Or have a distance to bind with undeflected lift preference?
Both. It goes Seat pressure and distance from coil bind.
Are these the AFR heads Skip White sells with his BBC mid engines?
No. Completely different casting.
The mass of the valve train on those units, has to be high. Normal units we get to play with, here in the UK, that are OHC with shim under bucket and rev no hight than 8000 rpm, generally need no more than 70-90Lbs on the seat and 180-200 over the nose.
Of course were only making 135hp from
1 Ltr. and the unit is only 2Ltrs 🏴🧑🏼🔧
Goes to show you can't just race flow benches. At first glance you might think the AFR 357 is better, outflowing until 0.700 with a smaller cross section flowed on a smaller bore, untill you show the 600 numbers that is. And still don't know if you're running the same radius plate and pipe...
Looks like a nice setup 👍.
You cannot compare flow numbers from different places. The proof is in the stock flow of the AFR 345cc it flows much less on my bench than what AFR claims.
Do titanium retainers wear faster than cm?
yes but not bad unless valve train is way off.
do the double conicals work
They typically don't have enough spring pressure for most applications.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks Ed Iskenderian developed his (for a long time only) .904 lifter cam for our Max Wedge 413. He got most of his springs from So cal (pre PAC)
I would think that someone would build nested conical with a range of pressures
My builder had my engine on his dyno and it started to float at about. He used the same valve springs but the cam is different from what he usually uses. I figured the cam may be faster ramp or something but now I wonder if the springs maybe different. It’s just a street motor. He’ll get it fixed, he’s the pro not me and he wouldn’t give me junk. You’ve just learned me and I’m thinking. Thank you.
Probably like you were told in school, “show your math”.
Think it would go a long way toward justifying your course with these heads and other induction systems, demonstrate your professionalism, abilities, and maybe, reduce the number of sh*t talkers making criticisms.
Thanks for sharing your sound reasoning regarding the valve spring package, but, think you should have included the importance of rigidity in the rest of the valve train, to make it work reliably.
I don’t care. I use to show more of that then people complained the videos were too long. You can’t win.
@@WeingartnerRacing fully understandable…
For what it’s worth, I look forward to your videos, for the knowledge you pass on.
@@WeingartnerRacingthat’s the window licking f-tards that can’t watch and actually learn something, it’s got to be entertaining. Pretty sorry people out there. I enjoy your videos. Always good information!
You can't please everybody, and if you did, somebody wouldn't like it.
Titanium for the WIN. @@WeingartnerRacing