Do Your Own 3-Angle Valve Seats!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In this video we cover how to do your own 3-angle valve job on a Mopar Slant 6 head, but really it's the same for any engine, from a lawnmower to a big block. Doing your own valve seats really is no more expensive than having a shop do them, and with the quality I see out of machine shops today, I trust my own work far more than theirs.
Links:
Source for Neway tools (not sponsored or affiliated):
www.cylinderhe...
For a slant 6, I ordered Part #'s CU234 and CU205
If you have a different application, the size guidelines are here:
www.newaymfg.co...
Marking fluid: amzn.to/3uoUD2M
Lapping compound: amzn.to/3E0VES2
Lapping tool: amzn.to/3E0VES2
Ffs, just send it to a good machine shop and have the seat width, depth & angles finished properly. Honestly, we don't mind doing these jobs and it'll cost you MORE if you proceed to fuck it up and then ask us to fix it. Sheesh...
Absolutely! No one should even attempt to do things themselves any more. I mean why did I even tear it apart or assemble it? I could have just had someone else do it. For that matter why do I even drive a car? I could always just call a Lyft. You've convinced me! I'm getting rid of all my vehicles, just have to find someone to sell them all for me.
Plus, we can see the work the professional machine shop did with the resurfacing. Taking it somewhere doesn't mean it will be done better. It seems more and more it means it will be done worse.
@@damnimcooltom1 I bought a set for myself after a machine shop fucked it up in the first place, they didn't use heat to remove the guides, snapped one, threw an old inlet in to the exhaust side and called it a day!
Why send it to a competent machine shop? CNC machining. Depth of all 3 angles correct to head joint face, concentric bore and k-line of valve guides and superior surface finish.
Money well spent, and I get a kick out of doing the job.
Maybe, just MAYBE that is not an option. Machine shops around Boise are 4 months out. 'qualified staff' shortages' ........ And, dissing someone who is showing an alternative and effective DIY, shows your character and arrogance.
These are a great tool, I use them all the time. Machine shops are not what they used to be. There's a very small number of competent machinists out there.
THIS !
And the competent ones are booked out for 6-9 months!!!
I've Been using the Neway Seat cutters since the early 80's on motorcycle,atv,and marine engines.They work great and it sure beats having to take stuff to a machine shop.
👍🇦🇺
I used to teach this and video is probably better in most respects than the official Neway training video. (plus it doesn't have the 1970's background music)
There are a few extra things to check, seat width as mentioned by 'Flinch', seat position on valve face plus valve installed height
Seat width around 0.040"~0.060" (1~1.5mm) on intakes is normal with 0.060"~0.080" on exhaust side (1.5~2mm)
There is a general formula to calculate seat width based on valve diameter but maximum and minimum is generally in the accepted range (unless your doing a 'race tuned' 35cc Honda weed-whacker or marine diesel with 3 to 4inch diameter valve heads.........LOL)
For 'ordinary' engines, centre of face is good as it will give maximum life before replacement or reconditioning.
For performance, move contact point closer to outer edge cut 45 to slightly larger diameter then reduce seat width with 60 degree cutter.
Although installed height is 'less critical' on engines with push-rods or adjustable rocker (or some form of non-shim adjustment) it can be very important and need the valve stem tips ground shorter to either get clearance (with OHC shim motors) or correct rocker arm geometry
The step before you started cutting the seats was to check valve stem to valve guide clearance with a dial indicator. If it was out of spec, the fix is to knurl the guides or install guide inserts. The clearance must be within specs before cutting the seats.
If after the lapping, it shows the valve face is not contacting the seat in the center of the valve seat, then you can adjust with the 30 or 60 degree stone to center contact area of valve face to seat. Finally measure width of contact area of valve face to verify that it is at least the minimum width.
Or use a tapered pilot ….
The FIX for out of spec guides it to REPLACE THEM. The cheap hack that might last a while before you get high oil consumption is to knurl them
With the cost and scarcity of tools, knurling probably isn't cheaper. But I do have access to a set of the tools, so now I think I might pull an old head off the shelf and knurl the guides. Could be fun and interesting, and as a bonus it will trigger a bunch of machine shop guys into telling me I'm doing it the wrong way.
excellent tutorial
the job is excellent except for a detail, your seat is a bit too wide, you should consider 1/16" to 3/32" max ( 1.5 to 2 mm ) otherwise, the valve will eventually seat on carbon and burns off due to lack of heat transfert capability
Great feedback. Thanks
Agree with ensuring the seat is proper width for the engine application. Narrow 3-angle for short life performance , wider for high load durability. Your point of heat transfer area is key, and should be understood. Narrow width on intakes can burn too.
Great to know Neway is still going strong.
I have had a set of Neway cutters and pilots for 40 years. Used them on industrial engines and they worked fine. I would still get a 3 or 5-angle valve job on a serious street bike or car.
Too big the 45 angle for contact valve, usually are 1,2 mm tickness for the Inlet valve and 1,6 for the Exhaust valve.
YES!! Very important details overlooked by most.
When your done cutting, don"t forget to measure the seat to be within tolerance!
you also can use the dychem to check where it is seating on the valve seat. by either coating the valve face or the seat and lightly seating the valve, this will also show you if the valve seat is inline with the valve. many times they are not even though the test you did will show it all looks fine...but may be AFU. especialy when guides have been instaled.
Excellent Video. Yes you can pay others to do it, but there's something to enjoy about doing these things yourself
Nicely done, thanks for sharing! Those look like some good tools!
I recognize a slant 6 head anywhere, lol
Never seen or done seats without the valve to see where the margins are on the valve. Need to get some of those Nuway cutters.
wow thank you sir for your totorial, yes I can see with old school V8 heads your 3 angle valve job method would be no drama, like you said go slow and do it right.
The surface finish on that valve after the lap seems not great I don't know that it matters but I'd lap it a little more
Nice explanation, well done. Thanks for this video.
Grinding paste never failed me .....just takes a fuck ton of time when its badly burnt.
Lapping paste doesn't achieve the same as a three angle valve job. Lapping paste is for reseating. Three angle jobs also improve flow across the valve seat.
innformativ ! Slowly and at all no stressing education ! Nice ! :-)
Excellent video. Thanks YOSHI 👍
Sounds like Bob Ross doing a valve😂 job
I think I'll cut in some happy little seats.
😁
Use 400 to 600 grit valve compound instead of that 220.
There is always the light tap with a ball peen hammer.
Very nice, this is good for most engine work 👍
wanna see Dr Torque‘s work too
actually there is black and deker set, the vintage one in that set it has same tools, it doesnt use metal cutter and all this you do in couple seconds with power tool. That set has many i say many parts for engine fix. Some you cant even tell for what are. If you get lucky you find in some auction, or flee market, same is for 45 degree angle drinder
I have the Black and Decker seat grinding set, and was going to loan it to him. His father used to own it. He decided that with the cost of shipping it back and forth, he would try these hand cutters instead. It's fun either way.
Is it necessary to have the valves lapped with a coarse lapping compound for the best sealing surface? Bacause i would continue to use finer grits till i have a smooth finish. Just because my logic makes me think that would be better. Not because i know for sure. And thats why i am asking.
It's not necessary to use coarse at all. All you're checking for here is that the seat is concentric with the guide, so you're just lapping enough to remove the marker/marking fluid, not remove material.
thanks🔧🔧
Great video !! can't wait to my heads !!
I so wanted to attack those ports with a die grinder. A bit of pocket porting would do wonders even on a stock engine.
I took down casting ridges, etc. but didn't do much else. My plan is to force-feed it some air later in the year once I get the True Spirit built.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Later in the year after the truck is built? Ambitious.
Later in some year?
Maybe clean up the sharp edges a little, but Dude - have you seen the crankshaft in a Mopar Slant 6? Not exactly the hot set up for making high RPM horsepower. The crank is almost as heavy as the block. Only has 4 main bearings, so it whips real bad at anything over 4000 RPM. And giant counterbalance throws to throw and bludgeon the oil like an angry rhinoceros. Porting a nearly stock one is an exercise in wasted time and effort.
The combustion chambers must have been built by Chrysler.
Excellent, many thanks!
Hi, would you know which Neway cutter set to get for Honda V6 J series- J35A7? Thanks. Nice video. So rare to see a video like this. Thanks again.
I've got a link in the description that has a size list. You'll have to look up or measure your valves
The only question I have is how does this effect the hardened exhaust seat does it remove the hardening or is the hardened surface deep enough.
Induction hardening goes to a depth of 0.050-0.080 inches, which is quite a bit. You're definitely not taking that much off.
This valve needs the width and position of the contact area set properly. The 30and 60 degree cutters are used to manipulate that. The valve contact pattern should not be wider than specification. This is not a complete job.
Nice video!
Can the Neway Cutter be Successful used on new Blank ring Seats ??
I can't see why not, you just have to make sure the diameter is right and valve sits at the right height. It's just going to be a lot more measuring than if they were already cut
This works on all the cylinder heads?
Every one I've seen, yes
Those Neway cutters tend to follow defects in the seat as they’re three point contact (120*) cutter spacing. Basically they’re junk. You’re better off with a stone or ideally a single point profiled cutter. Yeah good on ya but still a valve job only worthy of a tractor or lawnmower.
I guess I'll pull the engine back apart. Even though it runs and has solid compression in all cylinders, the internet says it doesn't work!
@YoshimoshiGarage can You post the link to the tool ? in the description You doubleposted the grinding compound but and there is no link to the tool itself. THX
right above the tools is a link to newaymfg.com that takes you to their list of cutters to determine the part number. I ordered the tools from the link at the top of the description, cylinderheadsupply.com
What do you mean by adjusting the blade to the other side? And what does this produce?
I'm not certain where in the video you're referring to, but these cutters have moveable blades that can be adjusted to fit a wider range of seats. You want to adjust them so the middle of the seat is roughly centered on the cutter.
This tool looks as if it could faster than an old school stone grinder. How do you think it stacks up.(I recently obtained one with a valve grinder too,but have not had time to shake it down yet)
I've used the old school stones plenty. This is probably about the same speed to do the work, but takes up way less space in the shop and replacement cutters are way cheaper
There good but I’m sticking to my valve machine because you can do more inspections with it and it’s paid for
Sorry i got it now lol. Thanks sir.
OLÁ Yoshimoshi 24/07/24 Dependendo do sistema de fabricação as válvulas elas NÃO SÃO RETIFICAVEIS. O aparelho manual de retificar sédes de válvula "trepidou" durante a apresentação. Deve haver uma diferença de 1/2° entre séde e válvula, aumentando na parte superior da área de assentamento na válvula. A correção deverá ser feita (e há como o fazer) na séde. Na válvula só se for constatado o sistema de fabricação da válvula. Roberto Udo Krapf
Yes, with better and more precision tools and setups you can get to 1/2 degree. But I doubt that when this came of the mass manufacturing line in 1960-whaever that it was any better than what I have now.
@@YoshimoshiGarage OLÁ 27/07/24 Neste setor as montadoras regrediram e é a razão pela qual os alojamentos de comando de válvulas estão com desgaste excessivo e as MOLAS DE VÁLVULAS foram reforçadas. Faz parte da trapaça do surgimento do TORQUE ANGULAR. É um longo capitulo. ABRAÇOS... ROBERTO UDO KRAPF ANALISTA DE MOTORES A COMBUSTÃO INTERNA
OLÁ 27/07/24 PARABÉNS pela possibilidade de regular 1/2 ° . Sugiro divulgar pois a maioria não conhece a importância em relação de qualidade e diminuição do tempo de execução. ABRAÇOS e Boas vendas Roberto Udo Krapf
I guess it's time to throw that Black and Decker seat grinding set in the garbage!
I'm hard-pressed to ever throw out a tool, but man, these things are WAY easier than the old-school corundum cutting stones.
If you have a complete Black & Decker setup use it, biggest drawback is most people aren't religious about keeping the stones dressed, there are many applications where the results using the stones are superior to a Sirdi or Neway .
One place I use my B&D seat grinder is on hardened (like Stellite or Inconel exhaust seats), quicker and smoother than the carbide cutters.
I do have the setup, including the dressing tool. I haven't used it in a long time, but I also never get rid of anything, so...
A lot of top engine builders, will argue that the stones are best,
Why not Let the Neway Cutter tool do 99.9% of the cutting work & Then just Touch the 45° Seat with a Freshly Trued Stone ?? ...This would greatly Reduce wear on the 45° Stone & produce the Perfect finished 45° Seat surface possible.....This should greatly Extend the Stone service Life .....
Eu preciso comprar um jogo
LAP IS TOO WIDE
Just valve lapping would have worked. No need to cut seats
That would help sealing of course. Multi angles help flow
Couldn't u use a new valve as a guide for the cutter. Would think it would line up perfectly with the guide. As long as the guides arent bad
I think a valve would be too short, plus it's unlikely to be the same diameter as the hole in the cutter head
my like
I've been a small engine mechanic for thirty five years, and I've had my Neway valve seat cutters for thirty some odd years. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many valve jobs I've done with them. Expensive, but worth every penny. If you do enough of this type of work, they pay for themselves in just a handful of jobs. They've literally earned me tens of thousands of dollars over the years, maybe more.
Awesome video, well explained.
Tearing down my fzr250, im up against the challenge neway mentions on their site...
Basically...
"Save your money, the cutter BODY wont fit"
Looks like i gotta make custom cutters to do a 15mm exhaust valve...
Meh. At least if i tool up i will probably be the only person that can do them...
Do love my neways... when theres room!
Thats Rash, learning the hard way... is just part of living. I'd highly recommend learning to cut seats with this process long as the guides are in good condition to start.
Run that 60 again: seat width is bigger than I-10 through Houston. Margin at the outer diameter [on valve] is good enough. Aim fpr about 0.045" seat width. Self cleaning and low lift flow will improve.
I don't know I-10 through Houston but agree.
@@1crazypj Houston, Texas has many 10 lane highways that are still packed with traffic. I am so glad I don't have to live there.
@@skylinefever Thanks for the explanation. I 'found' an old thumb drive today (from around 2010) with valve seat width information as percentage of valve head diameter.
@@skylinefever I live near i10 and work on 10 at the beltway on the west side of Houston . I-10 on the westside of Houston is 26 lanes wide. Remember every thing is bigger in Texas!!!
@@mlwakatholy 🐄
The 60 and the 30 cutters do give you a more progressive flow pattern but their main purpose is to give a vale seat its correct width and its correct position on the valve face that is why you must have the valves you are using with you when you cut the seats. it is also very important with cutters like these that the valve guide is well within wear tollerances or your seat will be out of center or tilted. You also need to keep an eye on valve depth as undercutting seats leads to uneven valve spring heights and tensions. This is also very important when using new valves and new valve seat inserts because with some engines if you leave the valve sitting to high and have shaved the head the valve may hit the piston. This is more of a problem on heads with no combustion chambers like with most diesel engines. Gas engines with multi valve systems at more acute angles can have this problem as well. The valve seat shown at the end is to wide and that will work against flow rate.
Correct I agree
Usually a 3 angle valve job is done for performance, a single cut or 2 if seat is too wide is used in stock applications. You forgot to mention about seat width. The whole reason for a 3 angle valve job is to make the seat as small as possible and the other cuts is to make that width correct and to increase flow for performance. You had your valves reground, did you also have multiple angles cut on them to maximize airflow ? If spending that much to do seats I didn't see any porting done to the heads. I'd port them before doing seats as porting may damage seats and you would have to repeat doing them over again.
The maximum flow restriction of any head is the valve seat and valve.
A closed valve is very restrictive. 🤔
#1 thing is a good valve job.
#2 bowl shape
#3 port shape and size
FINALLY, SOMEBODY EXPLAINED HOW IT WORKS THE RIGHT WAY. THANKS A LOT, I'M GOING FOR IT.
The 46 deg angle on the valve and the 45 deg on the seat is so that the valves and seat will slap into a tight seal for mass production. When I was working on the old VW motors. When cutting valve seats you can slam the valve in hard or just seat the valve and give a gentle tap. The valve will get a fine line on it so you can get an idea of the seat position prior to lapping/ grinding the valve and seat. It saves time from going back and forward from cutting and lapping. I have had a set of Neway cutters for years, wouldn't be without them. They live on the shelf and they don't eat much. Kerosene is a good cutting fluid and don't drop the cutters. Cars, Lawnmowers, motorcycles and most anything they can be used on.
I purchased does cutter set in 1980s. I paid $1600 US. I cut the seats at 45 degrees, and the valves face at 44 and half degrees for best sealing
ruclips.net/video/uOk5L8Q__as/видео.html valve seat ring removers
Excellent video! Not only great, calm presentation, but perfect audio and video quality. Thank you!
Got me to sub. I have 10 motors to build and was going to pay the machine shop for valve jobs. Not any more.
Thank you.
@Dartgame 340 cross that bridge when I get there.
I got one, love mine
Hey, your videos have helped me repair some small engines. Thanks for your content.
Soooo many people think this is an inferior method when it is actually superior to a machine shop as you absofuckinglutely only remove the bare minimum when a machine shop cuts a lot of material and then will say you gotta replace the seats because there wasn't enough material left or want to sell you new springs .. machinists are truly assholes they want every job that comes in the door to finance their kid to go to college, and any time you do not go for the up sell for the extra machine work it gives them that loophole to screw something up because YOU did not do what they recommended. Been building engines for 45 plus years not my first rodeo. The only thing iffy about this entire procedure was doing it on guides that were not recently replaced or in perfect condition which is why this is a good thing to invest in because when doing a 3 angle valve job you are almost always talking about new guides at the same time. all this adds up to a lot of profit for the machine shop because this is all LABOR and the guides are not expensive specially if not racing and do not need bronce guides and oem iron guides are perfectly fine to use. because lets face it the bronze valve guides do not play well with stock valves they are for when you start buying exotic alloy expensive race valves that cannot use iron valve guides.
Putting a 3 angle valve seat on this head is almost a waste of time since the whole thing is as-(badly)-cast and requires a port and combustion chamber clean up before contemplating any valve seat work. The width of the valve seat should be 40-50thou and that has not been contemplated here, which appears to show that a little knowledge is ..............
No fair stating facts.. typical Chrysler garbage.
There’s a lot more to this than he thinks there is. Needed a lot more cleaning to start off with.
I highly recommend using a valve seat runout gauge from someone like Goodson Tools. It goes over the pilot rod and will tell you if the seat is concentric with the pilot. It will also let you know which side of the seat is higher and to press the cutter a little harder on that side. Valve seat runout plus valve face runout combined should be less than 0.002”. New valves out of the box can have as much as 0.005 runout and need to be trued up on a valve grinder like your friend has. /John
excellent recomendation
Using ink on the seat, and the new valve is a great way to see whether you have run out or not
You sent it to be decked, and then fucked the surface with a steel brush first thing in the video :D
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or if you're seriously saying that a wire brush will take off so much cast iron that a head gasket won't seal it. Damn you internet!
Need to do this job and I found your video well presented. Also very well explained and told in good detail. Very easy to understand. Best video on the subject outhere.
I do SEVEN angle valve cuts on my motorcycle valves and seats. I learned from the late "Pops" Yoshimura. The 30% open flow is 50% GREATER, which is VERY important on my 1964 305 Honda SuperHawk twin two-valve engine. Yes, the flycutter cost nearly a thousand dollars and there is only one man in town I let use it-he also does the cylinder honing for me. He is an artist with the Sunnin honing machine. When he decides to retire, the lady that runs the machine shop says she'll probably close-up, because she can't get any young guys that will learn to do race engines and drag boat engines. REAL machinists are a dying breed, sadly. If you can install new bronze valve guides and ream them to fit the valve stems, you might have the makings of a machinist. Now when like my late Daddy, you can cut the taper for the pins that hold on the wings of a B-47 bomber (by hand!) you ARE a machinist! He also built the first and second stages of the Saturn V rocket booster for Rocketdyne. We ALL knew the astronauts PERSONALLY, so it wasn't "Just a job". I'm a klutz.
“The lady that runs the machine shop.”
WTF??
@@psychbomb7543
SMH
REAL engine machinists aren't a dying breed. Maybe you lack the ability to find them but they're still out there and new ones are coming along behind.
Sign me up I’ll do it, it’ll give me the extra kick in the ass I need to do the old Palmer in my sailboat
I do 9 angles on my honda c50
I find the hand cutter makes it hard to get a good constant cut as you have to reposition your hands while cutting. I use a Milwaukee cordless in slow speed with 3/8 socket adapter and 1/2 inch deep socket. It cuts quickly and leaves a nice finish..
I have an old Black & Decker valve seat grinder from the 50s or 60s. I don't do very many valve jobs anymore, but I do think a ground seat is the way to go. Especially for hardened seats.
@@pb68slab18 Back in the 70s I had a snap-on valve seat and valve grinder. IIRC they were B&D rebadged. When I got out of mechanics professionally, I sold them. At the same time. the hand cutters came out. They did not produces as good a finish as the ground seats. Still using a drill motor real slow make the cutters work very well.. Still regret selling grinder but at the time I needed the money.
Start and stop of the hand cutter is not best.
Motor driven will be smoother.
Excellent video on how to use the Neway cutter system..They're right down the road from me in Corunna Michigan..If you've got a problem, they are always willing to help..Great bunch of people..
Well done...the calm approach is very appropriate!
You done well buying all the Neway pieces for $200 odd dollars. Here in Australia aside from the exchange rate just one cutter is around $350 by the time I get 2 cutters to make the 3 angles right pilot and handle Im up for $800-900 ridiculous ripped off prices. It would be cheaper going for a holiday to the US and getting the cutters while Im having one, Great video by the way and close up what needs to be done. What are your thoughts on the portable Serdi type manual adjustable carbide blade 3 angle cutters that sit flat on the head, and have a manual turning handle to cut seat? They tend to be a bit cheaper, Im not sure go with Neway or the Serdi style ? thank you
I've not used the serdi type but have heard good things. I've used the old school stones before, but the setup is bulky and expensive for doing just the occasional head.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thanks for the reply
Nice vid clear explanation. I have my Newey set from 19??, regularly used. However, I only use the 30/60 degree cutters to take the sharp edge off the main seat, v light cut. Making the 30/60 degree cuts any bigger is pointless, as if too wide, they quickly coke up, leaving you with one wide seat, roughly 45 degrees.
Great video - how do we find Dr. Torque???
He doesn't have a channel, but it a regular over on www.youtube.com/@MotorsandMischief
So how likely is it to cut to much and require a larger valve, or is that even possible. Very good video. Reason I ask is because I'm seriously considering buying a neway set, and actually do my own heads. Thank you, your input is appreciated
it's very hard to mess up
Big mistake to use the T handle. Use a common speed handle and 13 mm socket. Because you have a tendency to go back and forth. With a speed handle you go around in a much smoother way
How many times did he go *around and around".?
It should be noted that the 30 and 60 degree angles are used to adjust the width of the 45 degree sealing surface. Too hide and the valve can actually run too cool. Too narrow can cause the valve to over heat. If I remember correctly a good width is 1mm. Also you need to avoid tool chatter when cutting and make sure the valve guides aren't worn.
I did a comparison between the neway /serdi and mira portable valve seat cutters : ruclips.net/video/AxosHLO1bAg/видео.html
Great video, well explained with good visuals. Thanks
Maybe the title should be any a hole can do a valve job? Your first mistake? decking the head first. You do that last. Your 2nd mistake? cleaning the head AFTER YOU DECKED IT. Your 3rd mistake? not using a light spring to hold the cutter off the seat. 4th mistake? you are using the 30 degree cutter to set the seat outside dia. 5th mistake- you are using the 60 degree cutter to set the valve seat inside dia. 6th mistake- lapping compound simply ruins the seating surfaces . 7th mistake? posting this video
So make your own video and post it. Question: Are you a huge dick in real life, or just on the internet?
Thanks for watching. 😆😆😆
I've used the Neway cutters on every thing from Briggs and Stratton to 455 Pontiacs including winning late model stock car engines. Never had any problems if you take your time.
Thanx
what if the valves are worn? just go with new valves?
If you have access to, or know someone with, a valve grinder, you can usually reface them. If not, it's almost certain that buying new valves is cheaper than taking them to a machine shop.
This is what the machines look like:
ruclips.net/video/JZ659SudkZM/видео.html
Do I see a possible crack in that head?
Undoubtedly, simple tool , but, definitely, great in value
Great video bery well explained 👍
Good job on the video.
The Neway cutters are tricky to master using the hand t-wrench. I'll typically use (2) hands pushing downwards with my palms to balance the cut while rotating with some Windex for the cutting fluid. Using (1) hand typically produce an unbalanced cut that takes forever to cleanup, thus lighter cuts are better. A helper spring would have saved me from dulling the carbide cutters when the cutter head drops accidentally every so often so extra carbide blades are a good option. I've used 800 grit lapping compound to quickly lapp the valves in and nothing rougher. Then a wire wheel to remove the lapping compound off the valve face and seat. Not too hard to adjust the seat width according to the factory spec but it takes some practice for sure and I use a loop and caliper. Trick is removing just enough to avoid cutting the seat too deeply or at least keeping them all consistent so IMHO it's good to practice on another junk head to get the technique down. I believe the Neway powered head would be a huge improvement in cutting consistency and speed so that's probably my next upgrade. But otherwise with some skill you can definitely get some nice 3-angle valve jobs with these if you take the time and develop the feel for them. Most of the pros would probably recommend a Serdi, Sunnen, or Rottler but for the DYI folks these Neway are not too bad for the money.
Thx for the input bro, all this while I was thinking about the machine shops for this kind of jobs. I am awakened. 😁
Only ever used neway cutters on Lycoming and continental engines, always working on seats from the other end of the cylinder with a long extension must have helped keep things square as I never had issues applying even pressure. Agree cutting fluid is essential for decent results.
So many people don't understand this. Seat concentricity is so critical to longevity. Factors such as valve guide wear only compound the problem. Yeah, a monkey can make a seat that will seal for a while with a Neway. But to create a correct seat is much harder. The real issue for Neway is the finish of the cut (as you commented) and the lack of cut depth indication with a hand cutter. There is a powered track system for Neway type cutters but it dose not depth indicate. Runout is still an issue with any floating type of cutter like Neway And 3acut (ebay brand). By the time you have purchased all that you can buy a good used seat and guide machine like a Peterson 25 or a Winona and a basic Newen (not Neway) 3 angle system. The Newen has several knockoffs that are even cheaper than the brand name. Regardless quality application specific cutters are sold by cylinder head supply of Oregon, or Goodson, beam equipment. Silverline and many others. www.cylinderheadsupply.com/pr3vasecuki.html
@@bad406camaro Holy shit, someone who actually has a grasp of engineering principles. Well explained mate. But you know what they say.. " I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"
Seems to be the overriding vibe here.
When lapping a valve, turning the valve more than one complete turn is not correct and won't show any low spots in the seat. The correct method is to turn the valve only 3/4 of a turn.
cutting 30° and 60° is for air transition but also to give the seat the just contact width with de valve. To large => valve pressure on the seat is reduce, leaks can appear. To low => pressure to high. I think !
50 years ago when the sales rep's were going around demonstrating these to the machine shops they told you to never lap a valve. They claimed you were grinding sand into the valve and seat that would melt and promote burnt valves.
The factory/OEM dont lap valves why would you? 50 years later I'm surprised how many on RUclips do it.
Back then the machine shops either had the kwick way stone (shudder) or these newway cutters. These are a quality tool that a lot of shops used and probably still do.
Why? Because by marking it and doing a couple laps I verify concentricity. Saying "the factory doesn't do it" I wouldn't call a great indicator. They didn't remove casting flash, gasket match or anything else that took any additional time.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Well prior to the neway rep coming in our shop we used the kwick way stones and lapped them. It was neway rep that enlightened us. You're grinding sand into the seats, sand melts with the heat and becomes glass.
Usually the seat cutters were 1* off from the valve face. 45* valve 46* seat. If you wanted to see where the valve sat put some blue die on the Valve tap it down and you would get a nice ring on the valve showing where it sat.
Just telling you how it was done by the speed shops/machine shops around here. No body was lapping valves, made sense not to.
We had all the latest equipment and there was nothing else around. I loved this tool, it was fast and a lot safer then the stones.
Edit; 46* seat.
Rather than lap, a good smack on the valve with a "special, dedicated" ball peen hammer does the trick.
After the 45° seat is cut, you do the 30° top cut to define seat O.D. then do the 60° undercut to define seat width.
The neway instruction book states to cut the throat cut first then the top cut and the valve seat cut last.
Thats the way I've always done it.
@@ScatManAust me2, did it wrong at first like in the vid.
A tip for those frustrated by lapping suction cup always slipping off the valve head:
Remove all oils from the suction cup and the surface of the valve, then stick the suction cup to the valve with double stick carpet tape. Leave the tape a bit bigger than the valve head so you can roll the extra tape up over the edge of the suction cup. I’ve been able to gently lift the suction cup off the valve and reuse it on two or even three valves, just keep the tape clean and be sure each valve head is oil free. 😎
Are you building a top alcohol dragster , if not why in the F would you need a 3 angle valve job ..... K .I .S .S. over complicating things for no reason..
If the exhaust has hardened seats, it could become a little more difficult to get a cut...I would also add a spring under the cutter housing...
By far, this is the best simplest way to rebuild cylinder head in your garage, Thanks for the tips
I used Neway cutters 50+ yrs ago on several hundred VW engines. When used properly, they do a great job, never had a job not seal. Never used them on hardened seats though. Do your homework for pilots, clearances etc - that is just standard procedure.
Thanks for a Great Learning Video.. Excellent work 👏 👍
I started off rebuilding Air-cooled VW engines and was taught using Sioux stones which I have had ever since but I always wanted to get a Neway set for both a backup and in a pinch can use it on mobile jobs or when power is unavailable. Thanks for the video !
I've done plenty with a Sioux set as well, but I must say these won me over the first time I used them
I got it but it’s still brand new
Can’t stop using valve machine
🤦🏻♂️
How about doing a 5 angle valve job?
There was a big ass public hair on that valve when you put it in there, I'm sure that helped the lapping process immensely!! ROFL!
You could do a 5-angle, but first it's going to cost more for more cutters, and second, if you're looking at a 5-angle, it's because you're really, really wanting to optimize flow so you probably want a flow bench as well. At that point you're probably building something like a race engine and you probably need better precision, so I'd find a reputable engine builder. If you're building a daily driver or budget street type engine, these are great, but if you're dumping several thousand dollars into internal parts, you probably shouldn't be going cheap on the machining.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Dude, I told you to keep your pants on while working in the garage!
Nice video! Didnt know that you can cut the valve seats on your own, so if I ever come across the need to get this done, now I know I can do it by myself! Thanks!
These are handy tools - Neway makes them. You can add an extra angle or two to an existing valve job if you like. I picked up a 75 degree to improve effective intake radius on a set of heads some time back. If the cut goes past seat register on aluminum heads, you probably need a light blend with a stone to smooth the transition. No big deal, but dissimilar materials under the same cutter don't always get the same bite. As he says, keep cutting force near center of carbide inserts - they will walk on you if don't [from side loading] and you could cut a groove instead of a clean angle face. They may chatter a bit on powdered metal seats [cutting by hand], and not sure if I would choose them for the 45 [or whatever the seat angle is going to be] in those cases.
So do I bro 🙏
Ive seen oh somany guys using these and fucking up the seats. and they dont have a clue they are fucking them up. do your self a favor find a good shop that knows what theya re doing...witch can be quite a chore as you dont have a clue that may also not have a clue even though they may have a milliuon of $$ or more in equipment that they do not know how to use properly. Ive reworked oh omany fucked up other machine shops shit work it makes me sick. and they charged as much or more than I did. stay away from these cutters!! stay away from bubba down the road in the back of the waffel house or gastation that seem to never have a running vehicle...
Really good helpful video....Maybe I missed it, but you seem to be Cutting the Seat Surfaces Dry without any Cutting Fluid.. Neway recommends using a certain type Cutting Oil on their Carbide Cutter & the Seat surface & some users use WD-40...Just wondering why you didn't use any Cutting Fluid ? ....Thx again for showing all the details on how to use this affordable tool.
A great question. Neway recommends lubricant for "soft seats." For automotive applications, this probably means anything before about 1974 when they started induction hardening seats from the factory.
One word...editing