Ffs, just send it to a good machine shop and have the seat width, depth & angles finished properly. Honestly, we don't mind doing these jobs and it'll cost you MORE if you proceed to fuck it up and then ask us to fix it. Sheesh...
Absolutely! No one should even attempt to do things themselves any more. I mean why did I even tear it apart or assemble it? I could have just had someone else do it. For that matter why do I even drive a car? I could always just call a Lyft. You've convinced me! I'm getting rid of all my vehicles, just have to find someone to sell them all for me.
Plus, we can see the work the professional machine shop did with the resurfacing. Taking it somewhere doesn't mean it will be done better. It seems more and more it means it will be done worse.
@@damnimcooltom1 I bought a set for myself after a machine shop fucked it up in the first place, they didn't use heat to remove the guides, snapped one, threw an old inlet in to the exhaust side and called it a day!
Why send it to a competent machine shop? CNC machining. Depth of all 3 angles correct to head joint face, concentric bore and k-line of valve guides and superior surface finish. Money well spent, and I get a kick out of doing the job.
Maybe, just MAYBE that is not an option. Machine shops around Boise are 4 months out. 'qualified staff' shortages' ........ And, dissing someone who is showing an alternative and effective DIY, shows your character and arrogance.
I've been a small engine mechanic for thirty five years, and I've had my Neway valve seat cutters for thirty some odd years. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many valve jobs I've done with them. Expensive, but worth every penny. If you do enough of this type of work, they pay for themselves in just a handful of jobs. They've literally earned me tens of thousands of dollars over the years, maybe more. Awesome video, well explained.
Tearing down my fzr250, im up against the challenge neway mentions on their site... Basically... "Save your money, the cutter BODY wont fit" Looks like i gotta make custom cutters to do a 15mm exhaust valve... Meh. At least if i tool up i will probably be the only person that can do them... Do love my neways... when theres room!
Thats Rash, learning the hard way... is just part of living. I'd highly recommend learning to cut seats with this process long as the guides are in good condition to start.
These are a great tool, I use them all the time. Machine shops are not what they used to be. There's a very small number of competent machinists out there.
The 46 deg angle on the valve and the 45 deg on the seat is so that the valves and seat will slap into a tight seal for mass production. When I was working on the old VW motors. When cutting valve seats you can slam the valve in hard or just seat the valve and give a gentle tap. The valve will get a fine line on it so you can get an idea of the seat position prior to lapping/ grinding the valve and seat. It saves time from going back and forward from cutting and lapping. I have had a set of Neway cutters for years, wouldn't be without them. They live on the shelf and they don't eat much. Kerosene is a good cutting fluid and don't drop the cutters. Cars, Lawnmowers, motorcycles and most anything they can be used on.
Run that 60 again: seat width is bigger than I-10 through Houston. Margin at the outer diameter [on valve] is good enough. Aim fpr about 0.045" seat width. Self cleaning and low lift flow will improve.
@@skylinefever Thanks for the explanation. I 'found' an old thumb drive today (from around 2010) with valve seat width information as percentage of valve head diameter.
@@skylinefever I live near i10 and work on 10 at the beltway on the west side of Houston . I-10 on the westside of Houston is 26 lanes wide. Remember every thing is bigger in Texas!!!
I've Been using the Neway Seat cutters since the early 80's on motorcycle,atv,and marine engines.They work great and it sure beats having to take stuff to a machine shop.
Just watched this. Always felt I didn't have enough knowledge or skill to do this myself, but now I feel much more confident. I also like how you presented it... slow, calm, and detail-oriented. Thank you.
Excellent video on how to use the Neway cutter system..They're right down the road from me in Corunna Michigan..If you've got a problem, they are always willing to help..Great bunch of people..
The 60 and the 30 cutters do give you a more progressive flow pattern but their main purpose is to give a vale seat its correct width and its correct position on the valve face that is why you must have the valves you are using with you when you cut the seats. it is also very important with cutters like these that the valve guide is well within wear tollerances or your seat will be out of center or tilted. You also need to keep an eye on valve depth as undercutting seats leads to uneven valve spring heights and tensions. This is also very important when using new valves and new valve seat inserts because with some engines if you leave the valve sitting to high and have shaved the head the valve may hit the piston. This is more of a problem on heads with no combustion chambers like with most diesel engines. Gas engines with multi valve systems at more acute angles can have this problem as well. The valve seat shown at the end is to wide and that will work against flow rate.
I highly recommend using a valve seat runout gauge from someone like Goodson Tools. It goes over the pilot rod and will tell you if the seat is concentric with the pilot. It will also let you know which side of the seat is higher and to press the cutter a little harder on that side. Valve seat runout plus valve face runout combined should be less than 0.002”. New valves out of the box can have as much as 0.005 runout and need to be trued up on a valve grinder like your friend has. /John
I used to teach this and video is probably better in most respects than the official Neway training video. (plus it doesn't have the 1970's background music) There are a few extra things to check, seat width as mentioned by 'Flinch', seat position on valve face plus valve installed height Seat width around 0.040"~0.060" (1~1.5mm) on intakes is normal with 0.060"~0.080" on exhaust side (1.5~2mm) There is a general formula to calculate seat width based on valve diameter but maximum and minimum is generally in the accepted range (unless your doing a 'race tuned' 35cc Honda weed-whacker or marine diesel with 3 to 4inch diameter valve heads.........LOL) For 'ordinary' engines, centre of face is good as it will give maximum life before replacement or reconditioning. For performance, move contact point closer to outer edge cut 45 to slightly larger diameter then reduce seat width with 60 degree cutter. Although installed height is 'less critical' on engines with push-rods or adjustable rocker (or some form of non-shim adjustment) it can be very important and need the valve stem tips ground shorter to either get clearance (with OHC shim motors) or correct rocker arm geometry
It should be noted that the 30 and 60 degree angles are used to adjust the width of the 45 degree sealing surface. Too hide and the valve can actually run too cool. Too narrow can cause the valve to over heat. If I remember correctly a good width is 1mm. Also you need to avoid tool chatter when cutting and make sure the valve guides aren't worn.
Excellent video thanks so much for posting. And I can't believe I am saying this, but, excellent comments from viewers too! No BS just actual valid discussion about valve cutting. Cheers from Canada!
I've used the Neway cutters on every thing from Briggs and Stratton to 455 Pontiacs including winning late model stock car engines. Never had any problems if you take your time.
Good job on the video. The Neway cutters are tricky to master using the hand t-wrench. I'll typically use (2) hands pushing downwards with my palms to balance the cut while rotating with some Windex for the cutting fluid. Using (1) hand typically produce an unbalanced cut that takes forever to cleanup, thus lighter cuts are better. A helper spring would have saved me from dulling the carbide cutters when the cutter head drops accidentally every so often so extra carbide blades are a good option. I've used 800 grit lapping compound to quickly lapp the valves in and nothing rougher. Then a wire wheel to remove the lapping compound off the valve face and seat. Not too hard to adjust the seat width according to the factory spec but it takes some practice for sure and I use a loop and caliper. Trick is removing just enough to avoid cutting the seat too deeply or at least keeping them all consistent so IMHO it's good to practice on another junk head to get the technique down. I believe the Neway powered head would be a huge improvement in cutting consistency and speed so that's probably my next upgrade. But otherwise with some skill you can definitely get some nice 3-angle valve jobs with these if you take the time and develop the feel for them. Most of the pros would probably recommend a Serdi, Sunnen, or Rottler but for the DYI folks these Neway are not too bad for the money.
Only ever used neway cutters on Lycoming and continental engines, always working on seats from the other end of the cylinder with a long extension must have helped keep things square as I never had issues applying even pressure. Agree cutting fluid is essential for decent results.
So many people don't understand this. Seat concentricity is so critical to longevity. Factors such as valve guide wear only compound the problem. Yeah, a monkey can make a seat that will seal for a while with a Neway. But to create a correct seat is much harder. The real issue for Neway is the finish of the cut (as you commented) and the lack of cut depth indication with a hand cutter. There is a powered track system for Neway type cutters but it dose not depth indicate. Runout is still an issue with any floating type of cutter like Neway And 3acut (ebay brand). By the time you have purchased all that you can buy a good used seat and guide machine like a Peterson 25 or a Winona and a basic Newen (not Neway) 3 angle system. The Newen has several knockoffs that are even cheaper than the brand name. Regardless quality application specific cutters are sold by cylinder head supply of Oregon, or Goodson, beam equipment. Silverline and many others. www.cylinderheadsupply.com/pr3vasecuki.html
@@bad406camaro Holy shit, someone who actually has a grasp of engineering principles. Well explained mate. But you know what they say.. " I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" Seems to be the overriding vibe here.
In Dr. Lynn Mosher's head rebuilding class at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo back in the late 70's we were taught to forget about lapping ,as it should have gone out with the model T. It seems as the valve heats up it gets longer and no longer seals at the nice frosty line from lapping that gave you a warm fuzzy feeling.I had lapped valves since high school like my ole man did once a year on his flathead Hudsons. I checked this out once and actually did it with a 170c.i.slant 6 with new valves and 0.030 larger stems like Chrysler recommends for worn guides. I step reamed the guides to the .030 as wellof course . I heated the exhaust valve in a lab oven to about 600 degees installed with dykem and proved the valve face did not hit the previously lapped area.
Is exactly the way I have done it for50 yrs, never had a problem. Soon as I saw that pogo stik an paste come out,I could see an otherwise reasonable job being vandalised. My saying, "lapped to crapped". Also he only machined an intake with no insert straight cast iron "chocolate ", compared to some modern inserts. I say, show us a job on a well used welltite inexhaust insert using these cutters. And show the actual outcome with the markings on the valve. Adrian.
@@adriandines I've had Neway stuff for years, as well as an old flexible grinder with stones, but I made a mistake using the Neways using a T bar handle in an old air cooled engine with rock hard seats (same with sintered Kolbenschmiddt stuff). I eventually got out of the poor cutting results by using a slow speed cordless drill and ball joint driver, and learnt a lesson in the process. They did produce a good finish in the end, but the next engine I build I will definitely pre-finish the replacement seats in a lathe first to reduce the amount of material I need to remove.
I think a light lap at least lets you know there is full contact around the valve and where it is seating. The engine running is going to pound that fuzziness flat in no time.
Great video ! While porting my DOVE heads for my 460 I slipped on the second to last port. I put a nice little nick on an exhaust valve seat. Hopefully I can clean the seat up with the cutter and save a ton of money. Its worth a try. All the machine shops in south central Texas are backed up for months. I been calling every where and seems to be 2-4 month wait to get the seat fixed. My 460 block has been at the engine shop for five months. I sent it to get bored .060 over, align honed, decked, new pistons and the whole thing balanced and short block assembled. Owner told me 8 to 10 months at least !
So how likely is it to cut to much and require a larger valve, or is that even possible. Very good video. Reason I ask is because I'm seriously considering buying a neway set, and actually do my own heads. Thank you, your input is appreciated
As a machinist of 50+yrs I can tell you that valve seats can be cut quite a bit. As long as you narrow the seat. What you must check is the stem height. From the spring seat to the tip of the valve before cutting valves and seats. After machining is done grind the tips on your valve refacer attachment. Otherwise on non adjustable rockers, lifters will bottom out and hold valves open. And shim your springs accordingly. Valves can sink .060 easily and be no problem. That's why they make spring shims. Don't listen to the BS on line. It's not a computer. The valves need to be the right height on the TOP side. But you wouldn't want the heads of the valves lower than the combustion chambers. Tha'd be max+!
According to Neway's instruction manual, you're supposed to do the seat last. Here is what it says: Begin the process by cutting the bottom narrowing angle (usually 60° or 75°) using light pressure. Cut until some amount of surface has been cut all the way around, forming a continuous line with the valve seat. This operation raises the bottom edge of the valve seat. Repeat as above using the top narrowing angle (usually 30° or 15°). Again, cut until some amount of surface has been cut all the way around. This operation lowers the top edge of the seat. Before making the final cut, make sure that the width of the seat (i.e. the uncut surface between the top and bottom narrowing angles), is slightly less than desired finished width. Also, this uncut surface should appear uniform in width before making the final cut. If the width of the uncut surface varies significantly from one side to the other, continue cutting both the top and bottom narrowing angles until the width is uniform.
Yep, supposed to move the seat to contact the valve face close to the outside edge (about a 64th) using the 60 and 30 (I'm using the most common angles for convenience). Then cut as little as possible (cutting too much "sinks" the valves into the port, which hurts performance) with the 45 until the seat is cleaned up and the correct width. Then check, and make adjustment if required - go back to the 30 and 60 to shift the seat if it is out of place or too wide. Rinse and repeat. Also try and keep the height of the valve consistent between chambers, too.
Best way is , cut main angle first top angle second ,to position valve correctly with small margin, then use bottom angle to narrow seat, otherwise you could get unlucky and end up digging mote out the seat than necessary Adrian
I have had a set of Neway cutters and pilots for 40 years. Used them on industrial engines and they worked fine. I would still get a 3 or 5-angle valve job on a serious street bike or car.
Usually a 3 angle valve job is done for performance, a single cut or 2 if seat is too wide is used in stock applications. You forgot to mention about seat width. The whole reason for a 3 angle valve job is to make the seat as small as possible and the other cuts is to make that width correct and to increase flow for performance. You had your valves reground, did you also have multiple angles cut on them to maximize airflow ? If spending that much to do seats I didn't see any porting done to the heads. I'd port them before doing seats as porting may damage seats and you would have to repeat doing them over again.
The maximum flow restriction of any head is the valve seat and valve. A closed valve is very restrictive. 🤔 #1 thing is a good valve job. #2 bowl shape #3 port shape and size
ShOcK & AWE... I haven't been this impressed since I stepped out of the shower dripping wet (sorry for that visual). Very COoL. I had not idea these tools exsisted. You RoCk! Cheers from So.CA.USA 3rd House On the Left
Thanks for this video. I had no idea what all entailed to performing a valve job, aside from lapping the valves in. Instills some confidence we can do this ourselves, by just taking a bit of time and having the right tools.
Nice video! Didnt know that you can cut the valve seats on your own, so if I ever come across the need to get this done, now I know I can do it by myself! Thanks!
These are handy tools - Neway makes them. You can add an extra angle or two to an existing valve job if you like. I picked up a 75 degree to improve effective intake radius on a set of heads some time back. If the cut goes past seat register on aluminum heads, you probably need a light blend with a stone to smooth the transition. No big deal, but dissimilar materials under the same cutter don't always get the same bite. As he says, keep cutting force near center of carbide inserts - they will walk on you if don't [from side loading] and you could cut a groove instead of a clean angle face. They may chatter a bit on powdered metal seats [cutting by hand], and not sure if I would choose them for the 45 [or whatever the seat angle is going to be] in those cases.
The step before you started cutting the seats was to check valve stem to valve guide clearance with a dial indicator. If it was out of spec, the fix is to knurl the guides or install guide inserts. The clearance must be within specs before cutting the seats. If after the lapping, it shows the valve face is not contacting the seat in the center of the valve seat, then you can adjust with the 30 or 60 degree stone to center contact area of valve face to seat. Finally measure width of contact area of valve face to verify that it is at least the minimum width.
With the cost and scarcity of tools, knurling probably isn't cheaper. But I do have access to a set of the tools, so now I think I might pull an old head off the shelf and knurl the guides. Could be fun and interesting, and as a bonus it will trigger a bunch of machine shop guys into telling me I'm doing it the wrong way.
I'm here because machine shops are a dying breed. Plus, if you find one, they are backed up for months before you even get your parts back. Looking into doing things myself if at all possible.
excellent tutorial the job is excellent except for a detail, your seat is a bit too wide, you should consider 1/16" to 3/32" max ( 1.5 to 2 mm ) otherwise, the valve will eventually seat on carbon and burns off due to lack of heat transfert capability
Agree with ensuring the seat is proper width for the engine application. Narrow 3-angle for short life performance , wider for high load durability. Your point of heat transfer area is key, and should be understood. Narrow width on intakes can burn too. Great to know Neway is still going strong.
Need to do this job and I found your video well presented. Also very well explained and told in good detail. Very easy to understand. Best video on the subject outhere.
Nice vid clear explanation. I have my Newey set from 19??, regularly used. However, I only use the 30/60 degree cutters to take the sharp edge off the main seat, v light cut. Making the 30/60 degree cuts any bigger is pointless, as if too wide, they quickly coke up, leaving you with one wide seat, roughly 45 degrees.
I find the hand cutter makes it hard to get a good constant cut as you have to reposition your hands while cutting. I use a Milwaukee cordless in slow speed with 3/8 socket adapter and 1/2 inch deep socket. It cuts quickly and leaves a nice finish..
I have an old Black & Decker valve seat grinder from the 50s or 60s. I don't do very many valve jobs anymore, but I do think a ground seat is the way to go. Especially for hardened seats.
@@pb68slab18 Back in the 70s I had a snap-on valve seat and valve grinder. IIRC they were B&D rebadged. When I got out of mechanics professionally, I sold them. At the same time. the hand cutters came out. They did not produces as good a finish as the ground seats. Still using a drill motor real slow make the cutters work very well.. Still regret selling grinder but at the time I needed the money.
I do SEVEN angle valve cuts on my motorcycle valves and seats. I learned from the late "Pops" Yoshimura. The 30% open flow is 50% GREATER, which is VERY important on my 1964 305 Honda SuperHawk twin two-valve engine. Yes, the flycutter cost nearly a thousand dollars and there is only one man in town I let use it-he also does the cylinder honing for me. He is an artist with the Sunnin honing machine. When he decides to retire, the lady that runs the machine shop says she'll probably close-up, because she can't get any young guys that will learn to do race engines and drag boat engines. REAL machinists are a dying breed, sadly. If you can install new bronze valve guides and ream them to fit the valve stems, you might have the makings of a machinist. Now when like my late Daddy, you can cut the taper for the pins that hold on the wings of a B-47 bomber (by hand!) you ARE a machinist! He also built the first and second stages of the Saturn V rocket booster for Rocketdyne. We ALL knew the astronauts PERSONALLY, so it wasn't "Just a job". I'm a klutz.
Lapping paste doesn't achieve the same as a three angle valve job. Lapping paste is for reseating. Three angle jobs also improve flow across the valve seat.
I have been reconditioning heads for almost fifty years using Rose cutters, stones and newway cutters although the set I used had 46 degree cutters and RVR machines. I would note that with some hardened seats it is a good idea to use some fine emery paper initially to remove the hardening as it can dull the cutters very quickly.
I have had valve jobs done by two different shops and after both cut the valves and seats the contact area was not acceptable. I also purchased these cutters and it does take time to properly cut the seats. I use new valves as they are cheep. I use an old valve to carefully lap the seat with fine compound just to clean up the seat of any very minor imperfections. I typically do not use the new replacement valve for lapping the seat (and yes its not really lapping) as if you over lap the valve it just screws up the valve face and if they are coated it can ruin the surface. Then I use the new valve with Dyekem to check the contact width. If I do lap with the new valve I use very fine compound. Its time consuming but I get it exactly what is specified.
I started off rebuilding Air-cooled VW engines and was taught using Sioux stones which I have had ever since but I always wanted to get a Neway set for both a backup and in a pinch can use it on mobile jobs or when power is unavailable. Thanks for the video !
Some shops don't give you a 3 angle valve job but they charge you for it dons machine shop in Gresham Oregon did this to a couple people I know of because I installed the heads and checked to see if it was a 3 angle cut before I installed them ,check there work and don't be afraid to call them out on it
Typical. Also Oregon is one of the few states without a Bureau of Automotive Repair. Be on your guard. Anyone can nail up a shingle and go into any aspect of the car repair business.
cutting 30° and 60° is for air transition but also to give the seat the just contact width with de valve. To large => valve pressure on the seat is reduce, leaks can appear. To low => pressure to high. I think !
Engines will work after doing a job of this level. Yes it can be done better. Yes it can be done worse. Goal for many is not perfection but instead functionality. Everyone does not operate on the same standards. For the most part everyone in the comments on videos such as these are all correct. In the end the engine starts, goes down the road, and is reliable enough to do this daily. This is good enough for anyone not capable of doing the work.
wow thank you sir for your totorial, yes I can see with old school V8 heads your 3 angle valve job method would be no drama, like you said go slow and do it right.
I’ve used nuway cutters for many years , Would never use the T-handle Because it induces inaccuracy in the cut. Nuway makes a electric drive motor that makes it effective for accuracy.I would always use a cutting lubricant on the top two seats Which is dishwashing soap ,water and a spray gun, it works flawlessly and it produces a chrome like finish .It also smells awesome when you hit it with the air gun…lol. in my opinion a good valve job does not need to be lapped in because it scrapesthe shit out of the seat and the valve. Valves need a period of time to seat them selves in ,Aftert that you’re good. Keep on rockin
What do you mean by saying "valves need a period of time to seat them selves in"? You don't hone them with compound and you just install them as it is from the factory, so they will become sealed after some time of working when the motor will running? But if the valves doesn't seal before, how will this motor work?
you also can use the dychem to check where it is seating on the valve seat. by either coating the valve face or the seat and lightly seating the valve, this will also show you if the valve seat is inline with the valve. many times they are not even though the test you did will show it all looks fine...but may be AFU. especialy when guides have been instaled.
50 years ago when the sales rep's were going around demonstrating these to the machine shops they told you to never lap a valve. They claimed you were grinding sand into the valve and seat that would melt and promote burnt valves. The factory/OEM dont lap valves why would you? 50 years later I'm surprised how many on RUclips do it. Back then the machine shops either had the kwick way stone (shudder) or these newway cutters. These are a quality tool that a lot of shops used and probably still do.
Why? Because by marking it and doing a couple laps I verify concentricity. Saying "the factory doesn't do it" I wouldn't call a great indicator. They didn't remove casting flash, gasket match or anything else that took any additional time.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Well prior to the neway rep coming in our shop we used the kwick way stones and lapped them. It was neway rep that enlightened us. You're grinding sand into the seats, sand melts with the heat and becomes glass. Usually the seat cutters were 1* off from the valve face. 45* valve 46* seat. If you wanted to see where the valve sat put some blue die on the Valve tap it down and you would get a nice ring on the valve showing where it sat. Just telling you how it was done by the speed shops/machine shops around here. No body was lapping valves, made sense not to. We had all the latest equipment and there was nothing else around. I loved this tool, it was fast and a lot safer then the stones. Edit; 46* seat.
A tip for those frustrated by lapping suction cup always slipping off the valve head: Remove all oils from the suction cup and the surface of the valve, then stick the suction cup to the valve with double stick carpet tape. Leave the tape a bit bigger than the valve head so you can roll the extra tape up over the edge of the suction cup. I’ve been able to gently lift the suction cup off the valve and reuse it on two or even three valves, just keep the tape clean and be sure each valve head is oil free. 😎
I used Neway cutters 50+ yrs ago on several hundred VW engines. When used properly, they do a great job, never had a job not seal. Never used them on hardened seats though. Do your homework for pilots, clearances etc - that is just standard procedure.
You done well buying all the Neway pieces for $200 odd dollars. Here in Australia aside from the exchange rate just one cutter is around $350 by the time I get 2 cutters to make the 3 angles right pilot and handle Im up for $800-900 ridiculous ripped off prices. It would be cheaper going for a holiday to the US and getting the cutters while Im having one, Great video by the way and close up what needs to be done. What are your thoughts on the portable Serdi type manual adjustable carbide blade 3 angle cutters that sit flat on the head, and have a manual turning handle to cut seat? They tend to be a bit cheaper, Im not sure go with Neway or the Serdi style ? thank you
I've not used the serdi type but have heard good things. I've used the old school stones before, but the setup is bulky and expensive for doing just the occasional head.
Really good helpful video....Maybe I missed it, but you seem to be Cutting the Seat Surfaces Dry without any Cutting Fluid.. Neway recommends using a certain type Cutting Oil on their Carbide Cutter & the Seat surface & some users use WD-40...Just wondering why you didn't use any Cutting Fluid ? ....Thx again for showing all the details on how to use this affordable tool.
A great question. Neway recommends lubricant for "soft seats." For automotive applications, this probably means anything before about 1974 when they started induction hardening seats from the factory.
Reco shop i did my apprenticeship in the late seventies bought a set of these to try we found you got a better result with a stone but the 3 way cutters that are used nowadays in the machines are the best. Realistically how often would you cut seats at home and what if the valve guides are worn out? Unless you are a business for the cost of all the gear your better off to take it to a shop and get it done properly heads should almost all be surfaced anyway while it is off so it needs to go to a shop.
Try using a speed handle for more even motion/pressure and the aforementioned spring to back the cutter off the seat so you can gently 'disengage'...... may need to fab an extended socket to clear the pilot shaft. We're 4-5 months out and shops are charging $100 -$150 an hour in the Boise area ........
If you have access to, or know someone with, a valve grinder, you can usually reface them. If not, it's almost certain that buying new valves is cheaper than taking them to a machine shop. This is what the machines look like: ruclips.net/video/JZ659SudkZM/видео.html
Holy balls, are the combustion chambers rough on those heads. My ocd would have kicked in and I would have put in some junk valves and removed some of that before doing the valve job. I also use Neway cutters and they work great. I got a different handle to turn them as well as a cutter that cuts 90* to the combustion chamber to flatten the lip or burr caused by the oem valve cut.
@@hotrodray6802 Neway makes a wide cutter to bring the ridge around the port down to the same height. It flattens it out quicker and more consistently than I can by hand and avoids getting into the actual seat. I've done this with some factory heads that had horrible chamber slag and uneven chamber height.
I note you picked the inlet seat to demo, this seat is straight in the cast iron head, chocolate compared to say a well used welltite insert for instance, or even a new soft welltite, 40% nick. Insert, these cutters don't work easily with these materials. Adrian
This head has cast-in seats for both intake and exhaust. The exhaust seats are probably induction hardened, but I didn't notice any difference cutting any of them.
![Save Money And Lap Your Own Valves! [Measured Results]](/img/1.gif)
Ffs, just send it to a good machine shop and have the seat width, depth & angles finished properly. Honestly, we don't mind doing these jobs and it'll cost you MORE if you proceed to fuck it up and then ask us to fix it. Sheesh...
Absolutely! No one should even attempt to do things themselves any more. I mean why did I even tear it apart or assemble it? I could have just had someone else do it. For that matter why do I even drive a car? I could always just call a Lyft. You've convinced me! I'm getting rid of all my vehicles, just have to find someone to sell them all for me.
Plus, we can see the work the professional machine shop did with the resurfacing. Taking it somewhere doesn't mean it will be done better. It seems more and more it means it will be done worse.
@@damnimcooltom1 I bought a set for myself after a machine shop fucked it up in the first place, they didn't use heat to remove the guides, snapped one, threw an old inlet in to the exhaust side and called it a day!
Why send it to a competent machine shop? CNC machining. Depth of all 3 angles correct to head joint face, concentric bore and k-line of valve guides and superior surface finish.
Money well spent, and I get a kick out of doing the job.
Maybe, just MAYBE that is not an option. Machine shops around Boise are 4 months out. 'qualified staff' shortages' ........ And, dissing someone who is showing an alternative and effective DIY, shows your character and arrogance.
I've been a small engine mechanic for thirty five years, and I've had my Neway valve seat cutters for thirty some odd years. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many valve jobs I've done with them. Expensive, but worth every penny. If you do enough of this type of work, they pay for themselves in just a handful of jobs. They've literally earned me tens of thousands of dollars over the years, maybe more.
Awesome video, well explained.
Tearing down my fzr250, im up against the challenge neway mentions on their site...
Basically...
"Save your money, the cutter BODY wont fit"
Looks like i gotta make custom cutters to do a 15mm exhaust valve...
Meh. At least if i tool up i will probably be the only person that can do them...
Do love my neways... when theres room!
Thats Rash, learning the hard way... is just part of living. I'd highly recommend learning to cut seats with this process long as the guides are in good condition to start.
FINALLY, SOMEBODY EXPLAINED HOW IT WORKS THE RIGHT WAY. THANKS A LOT, I'M GOING FOR IT.
These are a great tool, I use them all the time. Machine shops are not what they used to be. There's a very small number of competent machinists out there.
THIS !
And the competent ones are booked out for 6-9 months!!!
Undoubtedly, simple tool , but, definitely, great in value
The 46 deg angle on the valve and the 45 deg on the seat is so that the valves and seat will slap into a tight seal for mass production. When I was working on the old VW motors. When cutting valve seats you can slam the valve in hard or just seat the valve and give a gentle tap. The valve will get a fine line on it so you can get an idea of the seat position prior to lapping/ grinding the valve and seat. It saves time from going back and forward from cutting and lapping. I have had a set of Neway cutters for years, wouldn't be without them. They live on the shelf and they don't eat much. Kerosene is a good cutting fluid and don't drop the cutters. Cars, Lawnmowers, motorcycles and most anything they can be used on.
Run that 60 again: seat width is bigger than I-10 through Houston. Margin at the outer diameter [on valve] is good enough. Aim fpr about 0.045" seat width. Self cleaning and low lift flow will improve.
I don't know I-10 through Houston but agree.
@@1crazypj Houston, Texas has many 10 lane highways that are still packed with traffic. I am so glad I don't have to live there.
@@skylinefever Thanks for the explanation. I 'found' an old thumb drive today (from around 2010) with valve seat width information as percentage of valve head diameter.
@@skylinefever I live near i10 and work on 10 at the beltway on the west side of Houston . I-10 on the westside of Houston is 26 lanes wide. Remember every thing is bigger in Texas!!!
@@mlwakatholy 🐄
Excellent video! Not only great, calm presentation, but perfect audio and video quality. Thank you!
I've Been using the Neway Seat cutters since the early 80's on motorcycle,atv,and marine engines.They work great and it sure beats having to take stuff to a machine shop.
👍🇦🇺
Just watched this. Always felt I didn't have enough knowledge or skill to do this myself, but now I feel much more confident. I also like how you presented it... slow, calm, and detail-oriented. Thank you.
Excellent video on how to use the Neway cutter system..They're right down the road from me in Corunna Michigan..If you've got a problem, they are always willing to help..Great bunch of people..
Got me to sub. I have 10 motors to build and was going to pay the machine shop for valve jobs. Not any more.
Thank you.
@Dartgame 340 cross that bridge when I get there.
I purchased does cutter set in 1980s. I paid $1600 US. I cut the seats at 45 degrees, and the valves face at 44 and half degrees for best sealing
ruclips.net/video/uOk5L8Q__as/видео.html valve seat ring removers
By far, this is the best simplest way to rebuild cylinder head in your garage, Thanks for the tips
The 60 and the 30 cutters do give you a more progressive flow pattern but their main purpose is to give a vale seat its correct width and its correct position on the valve face that is why you must have the valves you are using with you when you cut the seats. it is also very important with cutters like these that the valve guide is well within wear tollerances or your seat will be out of center or tilted. You also need to keep an eye on valve depth as undercutting seats leads to uneven valve spring heights and tensions. This is also very important when using new valves and new valve seat inserts because with some engines if you leave the valve sitting to high and have shaved the head the valve may hit the piston. This is more of a problem on heads with no combustion chambers like with most diesel engines. Gas engines with multi valve systems at more acute angles can have this problem as well. The valve seat shown at the end is to wide and that will work against flow rate.
Correct I agree
Easy, i machined a piece of aluminium with the same angles and inner and outer diameter of the valve seat to fit over a pilot to test with
Well done...the calm approach is very appropriate!
Thank you for taking the time to show me a new tool and how it works !! New to the channel and now it’s time to go down the rabbit hole
We're never better served than by ourself, thank you for this precise and very informative presentation. Cheers from Geneva Switzerland
Great video, well explained with good visuals. Thanks
I highly recommend using a valve seat runout gauge from someone like Goodson Tools. It goes over the pilot rod and will tell you if the seat is concentric with the pilot. It will also let you know which side of the seat is higher and to press the cutter a little harder on that side. Valve seat runout plus valve face runout combined should be less than 0.002”. New valves out of the box can have as much as 0.005 runout and need to be trued up on a valve grinder like your friend has. /John
excellent recomendation
Using ink on the seat, and the new valve is a great way to see whether you have run out or not
I used to teach this and video is probably better in most respects than the official Neway training video. (plus it doesn't have the 1970's background music)
There are a few extra things to check, seat width as mentioned by 'Flinch', seat position on valve face plus valve installed height
Seat width around 0.040"~0.060" (1~1.5mm) on intakes is normal with 0.060"~0.080" on exhaust side (1.5~2mm)
There is a general formula to calculate seat width based on valve diameter but maximum and minimum is generally in the accepted range (unless your doing a 'race tuned' 35cc Honda weed-whacker or marine diesel with 3 to 4inch diameter valve heads.........LOL)
For 'ordinary' engines, centre of face is good as it will give maximum life before replacement or reconditioning.
For performance, move contact point closer to outer edge cut 45 to slightly larger diameter then reduce seat width with 60 degree cutter.
Although installed height is 'less critical' on engines with push-rods or adjustable rocker (or some form of non-shim adjustment) it can be very important and need the valve stem tips ground shorter to either get clearance (with OHC shim motors) or correct rocker arm geometry
It should be noted that the 30 and 60 degree angles are used to adjust the width of the 45 degree sealing surface. Too hide and the valve can actually run too cool. Too narrow can cause the valve to over heat. If I remember correctly a good width is 1mm. Also you need to avoid tool chatter when cutting and make sure the valve guides aren't worn.
Excellent video thanks so much for posting. And I can't believe I am saying this, but, excellent comments from viewers too! No BS just actual valid discussion about valve cutting. Cheers from Canada!
I've used the Neway cutters on every thing from Briggs and Stratton to 455 Pontiacs including winning late model stock car engines. Never had any problems if you take your time.
Good job on the video.
The Neway cutters are tricky to master using the hand t-wrench. I'll typically use (2) hands pushing downwards with my palms to balance the cut while rotating with some Windex for the cutting fluid. Using (1) hand typically produce an unbalanced cut that takes forever to cleanup, thus lighter cuts are better. A helper spring would have saved me from dulling the carbide cutters when the cutter head drops accidentally every so often so extra carbide blades are a good option. I've used 800 grit lapping compound to quickly lapp the valves in and nothing rougher. Then a wire wheel to remove the lapping compound off the valve face and seat. Not too hard to adjust the seat width according to the factory spec but it takes some practice for sure and I use a loop and caliper. Trick is removing just enough to avoid cutting the seat too deeply or at least keeping them all consistent so IMHO it's good to practice on another junk head to get the technique down. I believe the Neway powered head would be a huge improvement in cutting consistency and speed so that's probably my next upgrade. But otherwise with some skill you can definitely get some nice 3-angle valve jobs with these if you take the time and develop the feel for them. Most of the pros would probably recommend a Serdi, Sunnen, or Rottler but for the DYI folks these Neway are not too bad for the money.
Thx for the input bro, all this while I was thinking about the machine shops for this kind of jobs. I am awakened. 😁
Only ever used neway cutters on Lycoming and continental engines, always working on seats from the other end of the cylinder with a long extension must have helped keep things square as I never had issues applying even pressure. Agree cutting fluid is essential for decent results.
So many people don't understand this. Seat concentricity is so critical to longevity. Factors such as valve guide wear only compound the problem. Yeah, a monkey can make a seat that will seal for a while with a Neway. But to create a correct seat is much harder. The real issue for Neway is the finish of the cut (as you commented) and the lack of cut depth indication with a hand cutter. There is a powered track system for Neway type cutters but it dose not depth indicate. Runout is still an issue with any floating type of cutter like Neway And 3acut (ebay brand). By the time you have purchased all that you can buy a good used seat and guide machine like a Peterson 25 or a Winona and a basic Newen (not Neway) 3 angle system. The Newen has several knockoffs that are even cheaper than the brand name. Regardless quality application specific cutters are sold by cylinder head supply of Oregon, or Goodson, beam equipment. Silverline and many others. www.cylinderheadsupply.com/pr3vasecuki.html
@@bad406camaro Holy shit, someone who actually has a grasp of engineering principles. Well explained mate. But you know what they say.. " I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"
Seems to be the overriding vibe here.
In Dr. Lynn Mosher's head rebuilding class at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo back in the late 70's we were taught to forget about lapping ,as it should have gone out with the model T. It seems as the valve heats up it gets longer and no longer seals at the nice frosty line from lapping that gave you a warm fuzzy feeling.I had lapped valves since high school like my ole man did once a year on his flathead Hudsons. I checked this out once and actually did it with a 170c.i.slant 6 with new valves and 0.030 larger stems like Chrysler recommends for worn guides. I step reamed the guides to the .030 as wellof course . I heated the exhaust valve in a lab oven to about 600 degees installed with dykem and proved the valve face did not hit the previously lapped area.
Great info!
Is exactly the way I have done it for50 yrs, never had a problem. Soon as I saw that pogo stik an paste come out,I could see an otherwise reasonable job being vandalised.
My saying, "lapped to crapped".
Also he only machined an intake with no insert straight cast iron "chocolate ", compared to some modern inserts.
I say, show us a job on a well used welltite inexhaust insert using these cutters. And show the actual outcome with the markings on the valve.
Adrian.
@@adriandines I've had Neway stuff for years, as well as an old flexible grinder with stones, but I made a mistake using the Neways using a T bar handle in an old air cooled engine with rock hard seats (same with sintered Kolbenschmiddt stuff). I eventually got out of the poor cutting results by using a slow speed cordless drill and ball joint driver, and learnt a lesson in the process. They did produce a good finish in the end, but the next engine I build I will definitely pre-finish the replacement seats in a lathe first to reduce the amount of material I need to remove.
My 90's cadillac service manual says that new valves should never be lapped. So I assume used valves can be lapped?
I think a light lap at least lets you know there is full contact around the valve and where it is seating. The engine running is going to pound that fuzziness flat in no time.
I have these cutters, Its been a long time since I did a set of valves so watching this video as a refresher. Great video.
I have the cutter but I still use the valve machine and guides instead, been using it 60 years
Show the video
Great video ! While porting my DOVE heads for my 460 I slipped on the second to last port. I put a nice little nick on an exhaust valve seat. Hopefully I can clean the seat up with the cutter and save a ton of money. Its worth a try. All the machine shops in south central Texas are backed up for months. I been calling every where and seems to be 2-4 month wait to get the seat fixed. My 460 block has been at the engine shop for five months. I sent it to get bored .060 over, align honed, decked, new pistons and the whole thing balanced and short block assembled. Owner told me 8 to 10 months at least !
So how likely is it to cut to much and require a larger valve, or is that even possible. Very good video. Reason I ask is because I'm seriously considering buying a neway set, and actually do my own heads. Thank you, your input is appreciated
it's very hard to mess up
As a machinist of 50+yrs I can tell you that valve seats can be cut quite a bit. As long as you narrow the seat. What you must check is the stem height. From the spring seat to the tip of the valve before cutting valves and seats. After machining is done grind the tips on your valve refacer attachment. Otherwise on non adjustable rockers, lifters will bottom out and hold valves open. And shim your springs accordingly.
Valves can sink .060 easily and be no problem. That's why they make spring shims. Don't listen to the BS on line. It's not a computer. The valves need to be the right height on the TOP side.
But you wouldn't want the heads of the valves lower than the combustion chambers. Tha'd be max+!
According to Neway's instruction manual, you're supposed to do the seat last. Here is what it says:
Begin the process by cutting the bottom narrowing angle
(usually 60° or 75°) using light pressure. Cut until some
amount of surface has been cut all the way around, forming
a continuous line with the valve seat. This operation raises
the bottom edge of the valve seat.
Repeat as above using the top narrowing angle (usually
30° or 15°). Again, cut until some amount of surface
has been cut all the way around. This operation lowers
the top edge of the seat.
Before making the final cut, make sure that the width of
the seat (i.e. the uncut surface between the top and
bottom narrowing angles), is slightly less than desired
finished width. Also, this uncut surface should appear
uniform in width before making the final cut. If the width
of the uncut surface varies significantly from one side to the
other, continue cutting both the top and bottom narrowing
angles until the width is uniform.
Yep, supposed to move the seat to contact the valve face close to the outside edge (about a 64th) using the 60 and 30 (I'm using the most common angles for convenience). Then cut as little as possible (cutting too much "sinks" the valves into the port, which hurts performance) with the 45 until the seat is cleaned up and the correct width. Then check, and make adjustment if required - go back to the 30 and 60 to shift the seat if it is out of place or too wide. Rinse and repeat. Also try and keep the height of the valve consistent between chambers, too.
Best way is , cut main angle first top angle second ,to position valve correctly with small margin, then use bottom angle to narrow seat, otherwise you could get unlucky and end up digging mote out the seat than necessary
Adrian
I have had a set of Neway cutters and pilots for 40 years. Used them on industrial engines and they worked fine. I would still get a 3 or 5-angle valve job on a serious street bike or car.
After the 45° seat is cut, you do the 30° top cut to define seat O.D. then do the 60° undercut to define seat width.
Usually a 3 angle valve job is done for performance, a single cut or 2 if seat is too wide is used in stock applications. You forgot to mention about seat width. The whole reason for a 3 angle valve job is to make the seat as small as possible and the other cuts is to make that width correct and to increase flow for performance. You had your valves reground, did you also have multiple angles cut on them to maximize airflow ? If spending that much to do seats I didn't see any porting done to the heads. I'd port them before doing seats as porting may damage seats and you would have to repeat doing them over again.
The maximum flow restriction of any head is the valve seat and valve.
A closed valve is very restrictive. 🤔
#1 thing is a good valve job.
#2 bowl shape
#3 port shape and size
ShOcK & AWE... I haven't been this impressed since I stepped out of the shower dripping wet (sorry for that visual). Very COoL. I had not idea these tools exsisted. You RoCk! Cheers from So.CA.USA 3rd House On the Left
Thanks for this video. I had no idea what all entailed to performing a valve job, aside from lapping the valves in. Instills some confidence we can do this ourselves, by just taking a bit of time and having the right tools.
Nice video! Didnt know that you can cut the valve seats on your own, so if I ever come across the need to get this done, now I know I can do it by myself! Thanks!
These are handy tools - Neway makes them. You can add an extra angle or two to an existing valve job if you like. I picked up a 75 degree to improve effective intake radius on a set of heads some time back. If the cut goes past seat register on aluminum heads, you probably need a light blend with a stone to smooth the transition. No big deal, but dissimilar materials under the same cutter don't always get the same bite. As he says, keep cutting force near center of carbide inserts - they will walk on you if don't [from side loading] and you could cut a groove instead of a clean angle face. They may chatter a bit on powdered metal seats [cutting by hand], and not sure if I would choose them for the 45 [or whatever the seat angle is going to be] in those cases.
So do I bro 🙏
The step before you started cutting the seats was to check valve stem to valve guide clearance with a dial indicator. If it was out of spec, the fix is to knurl the guides or install guide inserts. The clearance must be within specs before cutting the seats.
If after the lapping, it shows the valve face is not contacting the seat in the center of the valve seat, then you can adjust with the 30 or 60 degree stone to center contact area of valve face to seat. Finally measure width of contact area of valve face to verify that it is at least the minimum width.
Or use a tapered pilot ….
The FIX for out of spec guides it to REPLACE THEM. The cheap hack that might last a while before you get high oil consumption is to knurl them
With the cost and scarcity of tools, knurling probably isn't cheaper. But I do have access to a set of the tools, so now I think I might pull an old head off the shelf and knurl the guides. Could be fun and interesting, and as a bonus it will trigger a bunch of machine shop guys into telling me I'm doing it the wrong way.
I got one, love mine
Hey, your videos have helped me repair some small engines. Thanks for your content.
I'm here because machine shops are a dying breed. Plus, if you find one, they are backed up for months before you even get your parts back. Looking into doing things myself if at all possible.
excellent tutorial
the job is excellent except for a detail, your seat is a bit too wide, you should consider 1/16" to 3/32" max ( 1.5 to 2 mm ) otherwise, the valve will eventually seat on carbon and burns off due to lack of heat transfert capability
Great feedback. Thanks
Agree with ensuring the seat is proper width for the engine application. Narrow 3-angle for short life performance , wider for high load durability. Your point of heat transfer area is key, and should be understood. Narrow width on intakes can burn too.
Great to know Neway is still going strong.
Need to do this job and I found your video well presented. Also very well explained and told in good detail. Very easy to understand. Best video on the subject outhere.
Nice vid clear explanation. I have my Newey set from 19??, regularly used. However, I only use the 30/60 degree cutters to take the sharp edge off the main seat, v light cut. Making the 30/60 degree cuts any bigger is pointless, as if too wide, they quickly coke up, leaving you with one wide seat, roughly 45 degrees.
Too big the 45 angle for contact valve, usually are 1,2 mm tickness for the Inlet valve and 1,6 for the Exhaust valve.
YES!! Very important details overlooked by most.
I find the hand cutter makes it hard to get a good constant cut as you have to reposition your hands while cutting. I use a Milwaukee cordless in slow speed with 3/8 socket adapter and 1/2 inch deep socket. It cuts quickly and leaves a nice finish..
I have an old Black & Decker valve seat grinder from the 50s or 60s. I don't do very many valve jobs anymore, but I do think a ground seat is the way to go. Especially for hardened seats.
@@pb68slab18 Back in the 70s I had a snap-on valve seat and valve grinder. IIRC they were B&D rebadged. When I got out of mechanics professionally, I sold them. At the same time. the hand cutters came out. They did not produces as good a finish as the ground seats. Still using a drill motor real slow make the cutters work very well.. Still regret selling grinder but at the time I needed the money.
Start and stop of the hand cutter is not best.
Motor driven will be smoother.
You'll still get chatter with a drill
I do SEVEN angle valve cuts on my motorcycle valves and seats. I learned from the late "Pops" Yoshimura. The 30% open flow is 50% GREATER, which is VERY important on my 1964 305 Honda SuperHawk twin two-valve engine. Yes, the flycutter cost nearly a thousand dollars and there is only one man in town I let use it-he also does the cylinder honing for me. He is an artist with the Sunnin honing machine. When he decides to retire, the lady that runs the machine shop says she'll probably close-up, because she can't get any young guys that will learn to do race engines and drag boat engines. REAL machinists are a dying breed, sadly. If you can install new bronze valve guides and ream them to fit the valve stems, you might have the makings of a machinist. Now when like my late Daddy, you can cut the taper for the pins that hold on the wings of a B-47 bomber (by hand!) you ARE a machinist! He also built the first and second stages of the Saturn V rocket booster for Rocketdyne. We ALL knew the astronauts PERSONALLY, so it wasn't "Just a job". I'm a klutz.
“The lady that runs the machine shop.”
WTF??
@@psychbomb7543
SMH
REAL engine machinists aren't a dying breed. Maybe you lack the ability to find them but they're still out there and new ones are coming along behind.
Sign me up I’ll do it, it’ll give me the extra kick in the ass I need to do the old Palmer in my sailboat
I do 9 angles on my honda c50
Grinding paste never failed me .....just takes a fuck ton of time when its badly burnt.
Lapping paste doesn't achieve the same as a three angle valve job. Lapping paste is for reseating. Three angle jobs also improve flow across the valve seat.
Great video bery well explained 👍
Excellent Video. Yes you can pay others to do it, but there's something to enjoy about doing these things yourself
Thanks for this. I could do this all day!!!
Great video - how do we find Dr. Torque???
He doesn't have a channel, but it a regular over on www.youtube.com/@MotorsandMischief
I have been reconditioning heads for almost fifty years using Rose cutters, stones and newway cutters although the set I used had 46 degree cutters and RVR machines. I would note that with some hardened seats it is a good idea to use some fine emery paper initially to remove the hardening as it can dull the cutters very quickly.
I have had valve jobs done by two different shops and after both cut the valves and seats the contact area was not acceptable. I also purchased these cutters and it does take time to properly cut the seats. I use new valves as they are cheep. I use an old valve to carefully lap the seat with fine compound just to clean up the seat of any very minor imperfections. I typically do not use the new replacement valve for lapping the seat (and yes its not really lapping) as if you over lap the valve it just screws up the valve face and if they are coated it can ruin the surface. Then I use the new valve with Dyekem to check the contact width. If I do lap with the new valve I use very fine compound. Its time consuming but I get it exactly what is specified.
Nicely done, thanks for sharing! Those look like some good tools!
I recognize a slant 6 head anywhere, lol
This is a great video! Thank you so much for making it. This will help immensely in the work on my old boat engine.
No it won't. You have no idea of the cost of these, do you? Cheaper to take to a shop and put the liability of a scew-up on them.
@@yeagermcbipper9008 Thanks for the feedback but Yes it did!
Thank you for your reply! I missed that the link was in the description.
I started off rebuilding Air-cooled VW engines and was taught using Sioux stones which I have had ever since but I always wanted to get a Neway set for both a backup and in a pinch can use it on mobile jobs or when power is unavailable. Thanks for the video !
I've done plenty with a Sioux set as well, but I must say these won me over the first time I used them
I got it but it’s still brand new
Can’t stop using valve machine
🤦🏻♂️
Some shops don't give you a 3 angle valve job but they charge you for it dons machine shop in Gresham Oregon did this to a couple people I know of because I installed the heads and checked to see if it was a 3 angle cut before I installed them ,check there work and don't be afraid to call them out on it
Typical. Also Oregon is one of the few states without a Bureau of Automotive Repair. Be on your guard. Anyone can nail up a shingle and go into any aspect of the car repair business.
cutting 30° and 60° is for air transition but also to give the seat the just contact width with de valve. To large => valve pressure on the seat is reduce, leaks can appear. To low => pressure to high. I think !
The neway instruction book states to cut the throat cut first then the top cut and the valve seat cut last.
Thats the way I've always done it.
@@ScatManAust me2, did it wrong at first like in the vid.
Awesome explanation ! I have the same set I’ve been using for many years, I love them…
Very good video and thank you for the link to cylinder head supply.
innformativ ! Slowly and at all no stressing education ! Nice ! :-)
Engines will work after doing a job of this level.
Yes it can be done better.
Yes it can be done worse.
Goal for many is not perfection but instead functionality.
Everyone does not operate on the same standards.
For the most part everyone in the comments on videos such as these are all correct.
In the end the engine starts, goes down the road, and is reliable enough to do this daily.
This is good enough for anyone not capable of doing the work.
wow thank you sir for your totorial, yes I can see with old school V8 heads your 3 angle valve job method would be no drama, like you said go slow and do it right.
Nice explanation, well done. Thanks for this video.
Great video and excellent camera work, Thanks
I’ve used nuway cutters for many years , Would never use the T-handle Because it induces inaccuracy in the cut. Nuway makes a electric drive motor that makes it effective for accuracy.I would always use a cutting lubricant on the top two seats Which is dishwashing soap ,water and a spray gun, it works flawlessly and it produces a chrome like finish .It also smells awesome when you hit it with the air gun…lol. in my opinion a good valve job does not need to be lapped in because it scrapesthe shit out of the seat and the valve. Valves need a period of time to seat them selves in ,Aftert that you’re good. Keep on rockin
What do you mean by saying "valves need a period of time to seat them selves in"? You don't hone them with compound and you just install them as it is from the factory, so they will become sealed after some time of working when the motor will running?
But if the valves doesn't seal before, how will this motor work?
you also can use the dychem to check where it is seating on the valve seat. by either coating the valve face or the seat and lightly seating the valve, this will also show you if the valve seat is inline with the valve. many times they are not even though the test you did will show it all looks fine...but may be AFU. especialy when guides have been instaled.
50 years ago when the sales rep's were going around demonstrating these to the machine shops they told you to never lap a valve. They claimed you were grinding sand into the valve and seat that would melt and promote burnt valves.
The factory/OEM dont lap valves why would you? 50 years later I'm surprised how many on RUclips do it.
Back then the machine shops either had the kwick way stone (shudder) or these newway cutters. These are a quality tool that a lot of shops used and probably still do.
Why? Because by marking it and doing a couple laps I verify concentricity. Saying "the factory doesn't do it" I wouldn't call a great indicator. They didn't remove casting flash, gasket match or anything else that took any additional time.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Well prior to the neway rep coming in our shop we used the kwick way stones and lapped them. It was neway rep that enlightened us. You're grinding sand into the seats, sand melts with the heat and becomes glass.
Usually the seat cutters were 1* off from the valve face. 45* valve 46* seat. If you wanted to see where the valve sat put some blue die on the Valve tap it down and you would get a nice ring on the valve showing where it sat.
Just telling you how it was done by the speed shops/machine shops around here. No body was lapping valves, made sense not to.
We had all the latest equipment and there was nothing else around. I loved this tool, it was fast and a lot safer then the stones.
Edit; 46* seat.
Rather than lap, a good smack on the valve with a "special, dedicated" ball peen hammer does the trick.
Cool tool. DIY is always great.
If I use new valves and the head is a wedge, easy to set seat depth all the same.
A tip for those frustrated by lapping suction cup always slipping off the valve head:
Remove all oils from the suction cup and the surface of the valve, then stick the suction cup to the valve with double stick carpet tape. Leave the tape a bit bigger than the valve head so you can roll the extra tape up over the edge of the suction cup. I’ve been able to gently lift the suction cup off the valve and reuse it on two or even three valves, just keep the tape clean and be sure each valve head is oil free. 😎
I used Neway cutters 50+ yrs ago on several hundred VW engines. When used properly, they do a great job, never had a job not seal. Never used them on hardened seats though. Do your homework for pilots, clearances etc - that is just standard procedure.
Me too. But VW 's are hard seats.
Thanks alot. Great video! This took away a lot of the anxiety involved with taking my head to an understaffed machine shop
When your done cutting, don"t forget to measure the seat to be within tolerance!
When I ran my shop i used to charge 5 bucks a port for a 3angle seat. I recently paid nearly 40. Times have changed!
Excellent video. Thanks YOSHI 👍
Thanks for a Great Learning Video.. Excellent work 👏 👍
Never seen or done seats without the valve to see where the margins are on the valve. Need to get some of those Nuway cutters.
You done well buying all the Neway pieces for $200 odd dollars. Here in Australia aside from the exchange rate just one cutter is around $350 by the time I get 2 cutters to make the 3 angles right pilot and handle Im up for $800-900 ridiculous ripped off prices. It would be cheaper going for a holiday to the US and getting the cutters while Im having one, Great video by the way and close up what needs to be done. What are your thoughts on the portable Serdi type manual adjustable carbide blade 3 angle cutters that sit flat on the head, and have a manual turning handle to cut seat? They tend to be a bit cheaper, Im not sure go with Neway or the Serdi style ? thank you
I've not used the serdi type but have heard good things. I've used the old school stones before, but the setup is bulky and expensive for doing just the occasional head.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thanks for the reply
If the exhaust has hardened seats, it could become a little more difficult to get a cut...I would also add a spring under the cutter housing...
The surface finish on that valve after the lap seems not great I don't know that it matters but I'd lap it a little more
Very good video and you did the valve job just right.
Really good helpful video....Maybe I missed it, but you seem to be Cutting the Seat Surfaces Dry without any Cutting Fluid.. Neway recommends using a certain type Cutting Oil on their Carbide Cutter & the Seat surface & some users use WD-40...Just wondering why you didn't use any Cutting Fluid ? ....Thx again for showing all the details on how to use this affordable tool.
A great question. Neway recommends lubricant for "soft seats." For automotive applications, this probably means anything before about 1974 when they started induction hardening seats from the factory.
Reco shop i did my apprenticeship in the late seventies bought a set of these to try we found you got a better result with a stone but the 3 way cutters that are used nowadays in the machines are the best. Realistically how often would you cut seats at home and what if the valve guides are worn out? Unless you are a business for the cost of all the gear your better off to take it to a shop and get it done properly heads should almost all be surfaced anyway while it is off so it needs to go to a shop.
Then by all means, take yours to a shop. I did the guides and the seats myself for under $200 in tools and parts. It runs. I'm fine with it.
Been a backyard me hanic my whole life a little physics goes a long way with some willpower .
There's a difference between a hobbiest and a consumer
Thanx
Try using a speed handle for more even motion/pressure and the aforementioned spring to back the cutter off the seat so you can gently 'disengage'...... may need to fab an extended socket to clear the pilot shaft. We're 4-5 months out and shops are charging $100 -$150 an hour in the Boise area ........
Good ideas. I might do the 360 heads I have lying around just to try it out.
@@YoshimoshiGarage You a Mopar guy ? ...
Mostly Mopar, yes.
That was really good, thanks for sharing.
Well done. Thank you for sharing. Keep up the great work
Very nice, this is good for most engine work 👍
There’s a lot more to this than he thinks there is. Needed a lot more cleaning to start off with.
Thank you!
what if the valves are worn? just go with new valves?
If you have access to, or know someone with, a valve grinder, you can usually reface them. If not, it's almost certain that buying new valves is cheaper than taking them to a machine shop.
This is what the machines look like:
ruclips.net/video/JZ659SudkZM/видео.html
Great tutorial best I ever saw thanks
Sounds like Bob Ross doing a valve😂 job
I think I'll cut in some happy little seats.
😁
60 back cut on valve ? Good instruction video . I just run my seats a little more narrow. Helps with flow .
Holy balls, are the combustion chambers rough on those heads. My ocd would have kicked in and I would have put in some junk valves and removed some of that before doing the valve job. I also use Neway cutters and they work great. I got a different handle to turn them as well as a cutter that cuts 90* to the combustion chamber to flatten the lip or burr caused by the oem valve cut.
90* flat cut kills the flow.
Hand blend the ridge without flattening 90*.
@@hotrodray6802 Neway makes a wide cutter to bring the ridge around the port down to the same height. It flattens it out quicker and more consistently than I can by hand and avoids getting into the actual seat. I've done this with some factory heads that had horrible chamber slag and uneven chamber height.
Your links in the description are wrong. There is two links for the grinding compound and none for the tools used.
Sorry about that. Fixed.
I note you picked the inlet seat to demo, this seat is straight in the cast iron head, chocolate compared to say a well used welltite insert for instance, or even a new soft welltite, 40% nick. Insert, these cutters don't work easily with these materials.
Adrian
This head has cast-in seats for both intake and exhaust. The exhaust seats are probably induction hardened, but I didn't notice any difference cutting any of them.
Hi, would you know which Neway cutter set to get for Honda V6 J series- J35A7? Thanks. Nice video. So rare to see a video like this. Thanks again.
I've got a link in the description that has a size list. You'll have to look up or measure your valves
super video, very handy tool, pl share the link for purchase
Links are in the description
@@YoshimoshiGarage thanks