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I've been using one of these and have done about 10 ct70/ct90 heads with them. You DEF do not want to be running a drill on it. You're supposed to push them down by hand and do maybe 3-4 turns. make sure you slather the guide with oil and the seat with cutting oil. Start with the 30, then the 60, then the 45, then the grinder one. You can chuck the grinder one up in a drill. Valves can be reground, in a valve grinder or lathe. New valves are cheap though.
Agree 100%. I’ve overhauled thousands of cylinder heads meaning oversize inlet and exhaust guides reamed to finished inside diameter after installation, next seat pockets are carefully cut to the next oversize ensuring they are absolutely centralized in relation to the new guides. Sometimes the pocket may require cutting two sizes over to ensure a fresh pocket due to heat distortion in the casting. All tooling must be in perfect condition and treated carefully. The mandrels used for both the cutting of the seat pockets and then valve seat angle is frequently measured and checked for it’s integrity. If using a sliding mandrel oil is used to ensure the tolerances are taken up between it and the finished valve guide. This is what oil does besides 6 other things, it supports parts like a valve in its guide. Neway carbide cutting tools are used to carefully and slowly cut the valve seats, some times only two single rotations by hand are required to see a perfect concentric mating band. Depending on manufacturer etc seats come pre cut at the correct angle and width. If all the previous steps have been carried out perfectly the gentle 2 passes with the Neway is simply a verification the seat is correctly installed. It also provides a bright clean surface for the new valve face to mate with free of any high spots. Occasionally a little more cutting may be required with a quick Crown and Throat to achieve the preferred seat width. You could simply then clean and assemble the valves and leak check from here however a simple and effortless valve lap is then carried out. This provides a witness mark on the valve face showing correct positioning and width however I have seen in some videos that it appears the person is using the valves shadow/ mark as a sign the valve is seated all around. It is the witness mark/shadow on the seat that should be checked. It should fill and dull the cut seat angle entirely. The quality and suitability of the tooling for valve, seat and guide replacement and repair is paramount to a perfect job as is obviously the correct manufacturer specs and parts. Cutting stones are a much cheaper option to Neway cutters as Neway cutters are a much cheaper option to a CNC machine that is able to perform all these tasks with perfect repeatability. However they too must be treated and checked constantly to avoid butchering a valve seat. They require a high speed to cut or grind the seat angles and need constant trimming to ensure the correct angle is not lost on the stone face. Only light pressure is applied if any, just enough to prevent the stone chattering or bouncing on the seat as it rotates. Quick light cuts are made constantly checking the seat looking for a full clean ring free of any low points caused by a previous leaking valve that allowed the combustion gasses to escape past the valve at extreme pressure burning the seat face away. They create abrasive dust that needs to be managed while cutting so as not to wear the mandrels and valve guides if using a sliding and not adjustable type. It contaminates the oil used to lubricate and centralize the mandrel and stone carrier so lots of carefull cleaning is needed before assembly. It will linger in valve guides if they aren’t cleaned with brushes and solvent. I can’t stress how important cleanliness is to a valve guide and stem before assembly. Obviously the same applies to every area of the inside of an ICE engine however we are talking valve jobs here. Basically for a freshen up of a head after removal the stones are probably the most affordable and easy option to freshen up a seat In the field or when an equipped shop isn’t available. Realistically a valve leaks for a reason. If a seat is cut then so to must the valve. The valve face must be re faced or ground which must be done precisely preferably In a valve grinding machine. Obviously this is only an option for valves not having valve face coatings or being made of materials like Titanium. If refacing a serviceable valve is not permissible then a new valve must be used. You can not fit a new valve to a seat that hasn’t been resized and shaped and vice versa. It’s just not an option. Any leaking of combustion gasses which is almost guaranteed if not done together will mean an imminent failure. The fact valves are able to do what they do is actually pretty amazing when you understand the task they have. A thin band of two dissimilar metals slamming closed and opening thousands of times a minute for potentially thousands of hours in extreme pressure and heat without leaking and breaking is a huge deal. This part of an engine is critical particularly for an engine that is intended to have a long service life.
No you and a big thank you to the vid producer because he started this conversation I have jut bought this kit super cheap off ali express £22.50 delivered and tax paid I have a cg125 engine that has sat in a garden for 15 years both seats are horrible I could not understand it seemed simple just use one cutter but I would have messed up I'm going to try tomorrow
Blue and red thick Sharpies are often used as layout dye by machinists and their contrast with the background makes any defects easier to see. They're also thinner than Dykem/Prussian Blue dye which often flakes off.
I’ve tried to use these cheap kits on a larger engine, they just chattered and left a very poor finish. I bought a Neway setup with the expanding pilot and the finish was perfect. They aren’t cheap but they are very good.
Factory service manual gives specs for valve seat and how to move seat 'up or down'. A lot of people get surprised that motorcycles (even Honda 50-90) had 3 angle valve seats from mid 1960's. (never worked on one made before 1965) I was actually more surprised that it wasn't common on car engines until late 1990's Using a drill is a terrible way to 'lap' valves, glad to see you did it properly in the end. It WILL put radial grooves into valve and seat causing very fast wear. (that's why every service manual and instruction book say to oscillate valve back and fore) Honda only use 0.002" intake and 0.003" exhaust valve clearance, it will wear in over 0.001" in first few miles (I know someone who thought it was smart and did it on his Kawasaki 1000, around 900 miles later he was buying new valves)
@@bad406camaro I know, aircraft engines and racing engines. They were not used in general production though plus I don't think FORD or GM used them on anything except race motors, maybe in 1950's?
Just because you can does not mean you should. Yes, this will help restore some sealing to valve seats. That is about as close as you get. There is no depth measurement of seat or width of seat angle measurements going by "eye" is guaranteed to be incorrect. You do not lap valves with a power drill. All that will do is make lines in the seats causing premature failure. Valve guides must be measured with split ball gauge NOT FINGERS. Valve stems also must be measured to determine guide to valve clearance. Doing this procedure with this tooling will guarantee someone will have to do it again in the future to correct the seat
Sorry, I don't know much about those. You'd have to know the valve and valve guide sizes and see if the kit has the size of mandrels and cutters you need. Might have luck asking one of the sellers on ebay if you have that info. Thanks for watching!
I guess I've never tried it. I guess it would come down to if the valve guides and sizes are included in the kit. Probably best to ask the seller. Thanks for watching
This is sht set... With hard long time you can make ur engine starting but for sure ur valve will leaks ..... I try this set after alot work time my valve still leaks at high pressure ....
Definitely not supposed to be using a drill on that specific tool set - and shame on your assistant for advertising such..... There are seat grinders made specifically for use of a valve grinding drill (turns at a specific speed range) and that's not so critical but what is is that with the correct tools the guide pin stays in the valve guide while your grinding dye floats up & down along the shaft. Should the shaft move in any event you fail your cutting/grinding and that's what you've done. Additionally with that guide pin spinning & rocking in the valve guide you're oblonging your valve guides some - you can guess what valve+guide wear issues come of that besides poor valve seating (poor compression) and oil burning. As I finish writing this I see your warped guide pin, you're definitely going to have long term issues if not immediate. You should have really checked to see how well the valves sealed afterwards too. Being this set isn’t made for a drill (no fixture to mate the drill to the dyes/stones) it should be hand-operated only.
Thanks for the experience and knowledge William. That drill was a bit dramatic and over the top wasn't it 😁 I did check the valve seals after everything was said and done but didn't have that in the video. I am going to have some follow up videos to this one in the near future as soon as it warms up and I can paint and re-assemble the bike. Be sure to stop by and see how it runs (or doesn't run 😀) And please feel free to give any suggestions or criticism on any of my future videos. I honestly do appreciate it. I wish you the best and thanks again for watching!
If you are receiving value from watching my videos, please return the favor and share my videos with your friends and family and on social media. You can also subscribe to my channel here www.youtube.com/@BIGFOOTBIKESANDBREWS?sub_confirmation=1
I've been using one of these and have done about 10 ct70/ct90 heads with them. You DEF do not want to be running a drill on it. You're supposed to push them down by hand and do maybe 3-4 turns. make sure you slather the guide with oil and the seat with cutting oil. Start with the 30, then the 60, then the 45, then the grinder one. You can chuck the grinder one up in a drill. Valves can be reground, in a valve grinder or lathe. New valves are cheap though.
Excellent info, thanks for the recommendations and thanks for watching!
Agree 100%. I’ve overhauled thousands of cylinder heads meaning oversize inlet and exhaust guides reamed to finished inside diameter after installation, next seat pockets are carefully cut to the next oversize ensuring they are absolutely centralized in relation to the new guides. Sometimes the pocket may require cutting two sizes over to ensure a fresh pocket due to heat distortion in the casting. All tooling must be in perfect condition and treated carefully. The mandrels used for both the cutting of the seat pockets and then valve seat angle is frequently measured and checked for it’s integrity. If using a sliding mandrel oil is used to ensure the tolerances are taken up between it and the finished valve guide. This is what oil does besides 6 other things, it supports parts like a valve in its guide. Neway carbide cutting tools are used to carefully and slowly cut the valve seats, some times only two single rotations by hand are required to see a perfect concentric mating band. Depending on manufacturer etc seats come pre cut at the correct angle and width. If all the previous steps have been carried out perfectly the gentle 2 passes with the Neway is simply a verification the seat is correctly installed. It also provides a bright clean surface for the new valve face to mate with free of any high spots. Occasionally a little more cutting may be required with a quick Crown and Throat to achieve the preferred seat width. You could simply then clean and assemble the valves and leak check from here however a simple and effortless valve lap is then carried out. This provides a witness mark on the valve face showing correct positioning and width however I have seen in some videos that it appears the person is using the valves shadow/ mark as a sign the valve is seated all around. It is the witness mark/shadow on the seat that should be checked. It should fill and dull the cut seat angle entirely. The quality and suitability of the tooling for valve, seat and guide replacement and repair is paramount to a perfect job as is obviously the correct manufacturer specs and parts.
Cutting stones are a much cheaper option to Neway cutters as Neway cutters are a much cheaper option to a CNC machine that is able to perform all these tasks with perfect repeatability. However they too must be treated and checked constantly to avoid butchering a valve seat. They require a high speed to cut or grind the seat angles and need constant trimming to ensure the correct angle is not lost on the stone face. Only light pressure is applied if any, just enough to prevent the stone chattering or bouncing on the seat as it rotates. Quick light cuts are made constantly checking the seat looking for a full clean ring free of any low points caused by a previous leaking valve that allowed the combustion gasses to escape past the valve at extreme pressure burning the seat face away. They create abrasive dust that needs to be managed while cutting so as not to wear the mandrels and valve guides if using a sliding and not adjustable type. It contaminates the oil used to lubricate and centralize the mandrel and stone carrier so lots of carefull cleaning is needed before assembly. It will linger in valve guides if they aren’t cleaned with brushes and solvent. I can’t stress how important cleanliness is to a valve guide and stem before assembly. Obviously the same applies to every area of the inside of an ICE engine however we are talking valve jobs here.
Basically for a freshen up of a head after removal the stones are probably the most affordable and easy option to freshen up a seat In the field or when an equipped shop isn’t available. Realistically a valve leaks for a reason. If a seat is cut then so to must the valve. The valve face must be re faced or ground which must be done precisely preferably In a valve grinding machine. Obviously this is only an option for valves not having valve face coatings or being made of materials like Titanium. If refacing a serviceable valve is not permissible then a new valve must be used. You can not fit a new valve to a seat that hasn’t been resized and shaped and vice versa. It’s just not an option. Any leaking of combustion gasses which is almost guaranteed if not done together will mean an imminent failure. The fact valves are able to do what they do is actually pretty amazing when you understand the task they have. A thin band of two dissimilar metals slamming closed and opening thousands of times a minute for potentially thousands of hours in extreme pressure and heat without leaking and breaking is a huge deal. This part of an engine is critical particularly for an engine that is intended to have a long service life.
No you and a big thank you to the vid producer because he started this conversation
I have jut bought this kit super cheap off ali express £22.50 delivered and tax paid
I have a cg125 engine that has sat in a garden for 15 years both seats are horrible
I could not understand it seemed simple just use one cutter but I would have messed up
I'm going to try tomorrow
❤
Blue and red thick Sharpies are often used as layout dye by machinists and their contrast with the background makes any defects easier to see. They're also thinner than Dykem/Prussian Blue dye which often flakes off.
Excellent. Thanks for the sharing the advice and experience! I will definitely use that next time!
I’ve tried to use these cheap kits on a larger engine, they just chattered and left a very poor finish. I bought a Neway setup with the expanding pilot and the finish was perfect. They aren’t cheap but they are very good.
Thanks for the info! I definitely want to get a nicer set. I will look in to the Neway! Thanks again for watching!
Nice. Looks like it did the trick. Please put more ct90 engine info videos up
Will do!!!
Bro I love this! You've gained a sub! Awesome content. Thx ❤
Thanks for watching, Glad you liked it!
The guy thats doing the work is old school and know his sh*t. Thanks for a great vid.
He really does!!! Kind of crazy how many tricks he has up his sleeve.
Factory service manual gives specs for valve seat and how to move seat 'up or down'.
A lot of people get surprised that motorcycles (even Honda 50-90) had 3 angle valve seats from mid 1960's. (never worked on one made before 1965)
I was actually more surprised that it wasn't common on car engines until late 1990's
Using a drill is a terrible way to 'lap' valves, glad to see you did it properly in the end.
It WILL put radial grooves into valve and seat causing very fast wear. (that's why every service manual and instruction book say to oscillate valve back and fore)
Honda only use 0.002" intake and 0.003" exhaust valve clearance, it will wear in over 0.001" in first few miles (I know someone who thought it was smart and did it on his Kawasaki 1000, around 900 miles later he was buying new valves)
Excellent information!!! Thanks for the expertise and experience!!! It's greatly appreciated! Glad to have you here!!!!
3 angle seats have been in use as far back as 1930`s.
@@bad406camaro
I know, aircraft engines and racing engines.
They were not used in general production though plus I don't think FORD or GM used them on anything except race motors, maybe in 1950's?
Small cam a little more spring.
Just because you can does not mean you should. Yes, this will help restore some sealing to valve seats. That is about as close as you get. There is no depth measurement of seat or width of seat angle measurements going by "eye" is guaranteed to be incorrect. You do not lap valves with a power drill. All that will do is make lines in the seats causing premature failure. Valve guides must be measured with split ball gauge NOT FINGERS. Valve stems also must be measured to determine guide to valve clearance. Doing this procedure with this tooling will guarantee someone will have to do it again in the future to correct the seat
Thanks for watching and thanks for sharing your expertise. Greatly appreciated!!!
Shut up boomer
Can you use this kit to cut newly replaced valve seats that do not yet have an angle?
I'm not totally sure Ryan. Sorry!
Hey sir would this work for a vx110 jet ski 2005 ski
Sorry, I don't know much about those. You'd have to know the valve and valve guide sizes and see if the kit has the size of mandrels and cutters you need. Might have luck asking one of the sellers on ebay if you have that info. Thanks for watching!
Boht best tools hamko magbana haa
These do any good on a 212?
I guess I've never tried it. I guess it would come down to if the valve guides and sizes are included in the kit. Probably best to ask the seller. Thanks for watching
link to buy the kit please?
I got mine off ebay. You can search ebay for "universal valve seat cutter" and you will find it. What are you rebuilding?
How did this valve job end up working in the long run?
Still running strong!!!
You could have brought it to a machine shop and have 2 seats cut and 2 valves cut for $10. Or just lap new valves in. Save your money!
I felt like experimenting a bit 😁
This is sht set... With hard long time you can make ur engine starting but for sure ur valve will leaks ..... I try this set after alot work time my valve still leaks at high pressure ....
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Definitely not supposed to be using a drill on that specific tool set - and shame on your assistant for advertising such.....
There are seat grinders made specifically for use of a valve grinding drill (turns at a specific speed range) and that's not so critical but what is is that with the correct tools the guide pin stays in the valve guide while your grinding dye floats up & down along the shaft. Should the shaft move in any event you fail your cutting/grinding and that's what you've done. Additionally with that guide pin spinning & rocking in the valve guide you're oblonging your valve guides some - you can guess what valve+guide wear issues come of that besides poor valve seating (poor compression) and oil burning.
As I finish writing this I see your warped guide pin, you're definitely going to have long term issues if not immediate. You should have really checked to see how well the valves sealed afterwards too.
Being this set isn’t made for a drill (no fixture to mate the drill to the dyes/stones) it should be hand-operated only.
Thanks for the experience and knowledge William. That drill was a bit dramatic and over the top wasn't it 😁 I did check the valve seals after everything was said and done but didn't have that in the video. I am going to have some follow up videos to this one in the near future as soon as it warms up and I can paint and re-assemble the bike. Be sure to stop by and see how it runs (or doesn't run 😀) And please feel free to give any suggestions or criticism on any of my future videos. I honestly do appreciate it. I wish you the best and thanks again for watching!
@@BIGFOOTBIKESANDBREWSbs dude it will work fine
Cek harg
$35