i gotta admit lies of p was better than everything besides dark souls 1 , i dont mean quality wise or anything just the way those two games made me feel. they did great fucking job
The only souls-likes I've enjoyed are Lies of P and Another Crab's Treasure, both amazing games. Lies of P has excellent replay value (for me at least) and Another Crab's Treasure has a suprisingly good story.
Valid criticism. My opinion is that most "souls-likes" are not souls-like to begin with. The term is a selling point 80% of the time but it applies only around 20% of the time.
How? Soulslike doesn’t mean it has to be 100% in line with Dark Souls. Soulslike just means it has the basic combat and mechanics that is mostly derivative of Souls games. Nioh, Remnant, Lies of P, the Jedi games, etc. are definitely all soulslike in that sense. Maybe there are some games labeled soulslike that aren’t, but all the ones I’ve seen are.
Nioh and Nioh 2 are amazing and have enough different from a typical souls like that I don't consider them so. The Surge and especially Surge 2 are great and Salt and Sanctuary for a great 2d game.
Lies of P is the only soulslike I've played that manages to not only be authentic to From Software, but also manages to iterate on that formula and retain its own identity. Such a great game
Honestly, Lies Of P used to be the closest souls-like to an actual souls game. But after Wukong came out, that game changed everything. I would even goes as far as to say that, that game is as good as some of the Fromsoftware games. Most importantly, it tried to the majority of the game in it's own way, without trying to imitate to much of the souls formula. It certainly deservers game of the year.
@@AnastasiaRose.-. it is, just because it wasn't advertised as a genre made by a community doesn't mean AAA games need to label it as such. it quite literally has the same souls formula.
@@JBrandonMercer123 yeah I know they disagree. But, ultimately it is generally a souls-like because of bonfires, boss challenges to progress through the story, more than one attainable ending. Stakes of Marika, and more. I've played it myself and beaten it so I can say that it is pretty much of a souls-like but it's not really trying to be one occasionally.
Lies of P is so good it made me question why other teams can't achieve that level of quality. The only thing I've played since that gave me the same feelings was the closed beta for Khazan, and that's gone now until sometime in 2025. I think a lot of teams don't grasp the way FROM's world-design and exploration-flow / itemization / player-customization actually ties into the experience. What makes FROM games so enjoyable to me (and why I like Lies of P and Khazan so much) is that I really feel like I'm making choices that benefit or hurt me based on what kind of character I'm trying to be -- usually, a rogue. Most studios who take inspiration don't really approach that aspect of the experience. Lies of P (and by the feel of the beta, Khazan) also feel appropriately difficult right up until the end, or until you have so much knowledge of the way the game works that you have instinctive solutions to its most threatening moments - which is fine, even the hardest games FROM have ever made work that way too and it's pretty satisfying to leverage. (Watch someone who understands Sekiro/Armored Core vs someone who doesn't, they make it look easy.)
"Lies of P is so good it made me question why other teams can't achieve that level of quality." I mean, isn't the answer already clear like the sun in the sky? Of course if you copy a critically acclaimed timeless masterwork like Dark Soul on literally an 1:1 scale, then the final result it is gonna be a tolerable souls-like game like Lies of Overhype.
Understandable if you want to keep it quiet so far but if you wanted to mention some of your ideas or interesting tidbits, please share. I only ask because this is the third year in a row where a high percentage of my favourite games were made by smaller scale indie devs. I haven't even bought a 'AAA" game so far this year because I'm still working on my massive backlog of indie or retro games. As such, I am very interested in the entire development process !
@@ThommyofThenn thank you for your interest! So far i dont have an official name for my project (all my datas and folders refer to it as "project: soul blade") Since a half year i started with planing everething like gameplay, enemies, map, gamemechanic and basicky every other stuff i need for it (all programm and lizens stuff we learning at dev universaty) so far im making the 3d Assets like charakters, swords and archetecture Setting: u r a sekiro like dude with the order from you god to defeat the god-abondemations because they draining the "living energy" of this world. It basicly was a elementak-energy-based world who got destroyed because of the war and a small god trys to save it with sending theyr blade (protag). The athmosphare is supposed to be hopless, melanchonic and a nostalgic desire of a lost world and a metaphor of a realationship between mother and son. This setting is not fixed thou, next week starts the winter semester and i hope i find some guys who got interest and help me out or give me atleasr feedback of my so far concept material Unfortuanlly it could take pretty long to make (mabey like 2028) BUT if i find helpfull hand, i would decide to poen a channel of our groops name and make a devlog so i could link it down here if you interested.
@@ThommyofThenn thank you for your interest! So far i dont have an official name for my project Since a half year i started with planing everething like gameplay, enemies, map, game mechanic and basicly every other stuff i need for it (all programm and lizens stuff we learning at dev universaty) so far im making the 3d Assets like charakters, swords and archetecture Setting: you are a sekiro like dude with the order from you god to defeat the god-devild (?) because they draining the "living energy" of this world. It basicly was a elementak-energy-based world who got destroyed because of the war and a small god trys to save it with sending theyr blade (protag). The athmosphare is supposed to be hopless, melanchonic and a nostalgic desire of a lost world and a metaphor of a realationship between mother and son. This setting is not fixed thou, next week starts the winter semester and i hope i find some guys who got interest and help me out or give me atleast feedback of my so far concept material Unfortuanlly it could take pretty long to make (mabey like 2028) BUT if i find helpfull hand, i would decide to open a channel of our groops name and make a devlog so i could link it down here if you interested.
@@andyb.4698 Ok i have had this happen multiple times in recent weeks. They will just completely vanish. It's weird because it normally is totally fine and doesn't seem like a bug
There are some soulslikes that keep up the quality over the course of the game. The Surge has excellent level design, rivaling DS1 with its many, many, many many shortcuts and focus on tense level exploration. It has a cool limb targeting mechanic that is relevant for the entire game. It mixes up combat against the small enemy roster enough to keep it interesting over the whole runtime and it gets expanded upon towards the end. Salt and Sanctuary does exploration INCREDIBLY well. It is challenging and rewards observation, patience and care. Enemies are threatening and you can get overwhelmed if you aggro many at once, but generally they come at a very reasonable pace when you don't try to rush. It adds platforming to the mix, and uses it effectively in both exploration and combat from beginning to end, expanding the player's moveset with a few metroidvania abilities. Also I counted 25 uses of the word soulslike.
Yeah the Surge 1 and 2 are great games. I personally liked Lords of the Fallen too. The new one. I didn't play enough of the old one but starting armor being so heavy you have to level up 10 times just to wear it was extremely annoying. Had to do the whole first area and boss naked.
@@The_Roosta Currently playing through The Surge 2 so can't comment on it. It's a good follow-up but I liked the first one just a little bit more, so far.
@comradecatbug5289 I hated it at first. Went back to the 1st game. And I was bored of the games I was playing and figured I'd give it another shot and once I got a bit further into it I had a lot more fun with it.
My only issue with the Surge was how small variability of enemies it had and only like 3 bosses in whole game. But I loved the story and the atmosphere. I will always remember when I got to the boardroom at the executive floor, it really gave me the shivers. Plus those creepy cyborgs
Lies of P is so so good. Ive always said the soulslike formula has plenty of room for improvement and Lies of P takes every favourable element and brings them together. Its simply the ultimate soulslike experience, above even Dark Souls 3, for me.
Lords of the Fallen was awesome, other than some underwhelming bosses. The level design, ranged combat, lore, and upgrade systems were top tier for a souls-like.
I didn't look at it from this perspective before, but I think you are ABSOLUTELY right. These games usually start really well, and then they eventually lose their charm. I believe Remnant 2, Nioh, Lies of P, and Lords of the Fallen 2023 are the only Souls-likes that keep their formula throughout the game. All the others, like Nostalgia, Surge, Thymesia, Wo Long... become basic and straight-forward after 3-4 hours.
I feel the exact opposite. They start out very painful, and the first few hours are a chore, but then you get the hang of it and it becomes managable and fun.
I like Wo Long, but I couldn't even get past the first boss lol, the second phase with him turning into a monster kept killing me... I also tried Thymesia and thought it was weird, Lies of P has a similar "bloodborne" style and does it way better... Also barely got into lords of the fallen, both versions...
@lololollololol629 I'll admit the first boss was a bit unfair. It was forcing you to get the hang of bl9cking and parrying, but punished you harshly for failing.
Nioh 2 is a better game than at least half of the fromsoft titles… it’s combat has so much depth and complexity that fromsoft games can only dream of. but sadly most people heard it was a “soulslike” so they play it in the most basic, boring way possible as if it’s dark souls. Also calling it (and probably some others) a soulslike is a disservice. It’s a ninja gaiden like with some souls inspiration
Nioh 2 is def its own thing but i still think the fromsoft games are better imo especially enemy wise both gameplay and design, the complexity of nioh comes from the builds which is why its fun
Night 2 is my favorite Souls-Like of all time and I agree that it's better than most Fromsoft Titles. If your on Console then Wolong: Fallen Dynasty is also great.
It may sound utterly ridiculous to say this, but I feel that not enough recogniztion is given to the importance of world and level design in FromSoftware’s games. In my opinion, this is why most Soulslikes feel inferior, and why so few have grabbed my attention enough to make me want to play them. Exploration in the Dark Souls trilogy felt rewarding and satisfying in a way that few other games match, and I attribute this to the way that FromSoft incentivizes the player to familiarize themselves with their surroundings by designing their environments to be _intentionally_ confusing and hard to navigate. Because it’s easy to get lost, or to not know how to reach a certain are, you’re put into a headspace where you’re required to pay closer attention and focus more on what’s around you, and as a result, the world becomes more memorable through repeated exposure. In modern times, this kind of level design is foreign thanks to developers improving at their craft. But an unfortunate side effect of current day game design philosophy is that many people are now accustomed to being told exactly where to go and how to get there - to the point of it even being an automated process, like in the case of fast travel. This means that games with minimaps and objective markers no longer require you to build up that visual library of landmarks and interconnected pathways. And by extension, developers are also incentivized to build more simplistic architecture that’s understood at a glance. This, much like their approach to difficulty options, is another example of the way that FromSoftware excels in their gameplay experiences by going against the grain and breaking established norms. An area like Blighttown or the High Wall of Lothric would not be made by most other companies or indie developers: a) because the ability to get lost would be considered a detriment to keeping players invested and not losing a potential customer, and b) because the amount of thought and care that it takes to actually construct those environments would be too much of a challenge for development. And yet even just a single location in one of the Soulsborne titles, like the ones I mentioned, feels more interesting and alluring to me than even the _entire worlds_ of some other games. The two games (that I’ve personally played) that felt like they understood these principles, that had worlds that were reflective of a FromSoft experience, were Salt & Sanctuary and Hollow Knight. And one of those games wasn’t even _trying_ to be a Soulslike.
That's why lies of p, nioh, lord of the fallen doesn't come close to fromsoft souls games, those souls likehave better combat but that's it... everything else is mid or trash compared to fromsoft souls games
I am playing Nioh 1 now. I am enjoying it quite a bit. The story is a bit forgetable, but the premise and the setting is pretty good. Level design is a mixed bag though.
I don't like many souls likes because most of them always do something wrong that annoys me. Lies of P is the ONLY one that has come close to anything Fromsoftware has made. I had some issues with the difficultly and the length mostly towards the end, but overall it was damn solid, and it should be the golden standard for how to make these types of games for every developer going forward
IMO Lords of the Fallen (2023) was the best soulslike of 2023 and easily ranks in my top soulslikes. Yeah, it’s a hard game but it’s incredibly satisfying to me. P was extremely meh but I think Neowiz did a great job, they just played it too safe. Hopefully if they make another P game they add more build variety, ranged options, coop-pvp and more intricate level design. P is basically a good boss run sim.
So, every problem you listed for souls-likes also appears in Fromsoft games, but somehow Fromsoft games are better because ... Fromsoft made the game ...
Last Hero Of Nostragia is like Dark Souls 1, had a great first half but fell hard near the end. Imagine DS1 but after the amazing duel fight, all you have left is Lost Isalith for the remainder of the game.
I've been thinking for a long time about the main difference between regular Souls games and trashy Souls-likes that no one cares about. The reason clearly isn't in the lore, the depth of the mechanics, or the builds. Because when a trailer for a Souls-like drops, there's an immediate bad feeling from the first few seconds. And I realized the reason-it's the animations. Every Souls-like, except for Lies of P, looks janky. The same reason Ds2 is bad from the start. It feels poorly polished Souls-like in terms of animations. The feeling of hits, the combat-it’s unpleasant, no impact. There are often moments where you don't understand how you took damage, because your character simply didn't have a damage-receiving animation (for example, during a dodge). Plus, the character controls very poorly. Often hits in the wrong direction you want, turns around slowly. Try killing a lizard with a rapier-you won’t be able to, it's super hard to land a hit.
This is why I have no intention of ever playing DS2 despite so many RUclipsrs saying "it's actually great!" It simply looks bad, like an unpolished Souls-like. I've watched plenty of DS2 gameplay and it simply is not up to the quality of DS1 and DS3. I think some people have a sort of nostalgia for their own personal experience with DS2 that does not reflect the game's actual quality. They look at it through rose colored glasses. There's a reason 1 and 3 are so well regarded: the director matters. Miyazaki was not director on DS2 and it really shows. It's a real shame they cashed in on the Dark Souls name with that sequel. DS3 should have been DS2.
@@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy the dlc is a masterpiece, Fume Knight, Sir Alone, smelter demon. If you fix your stats to maximise it becomes much more playable btw
"Poorly polished" DS1 lagged to death in Queelag's fight on PS3 and 360, let alone the frequent frame rate drops on Blight Town or Lost Isalith. Stop the religion, those are just videogames.
Guess I'm adding to your comment section to boost your engagement. You're welcome :) Dark Souls 3 also had bosses that were not amazing. Curse Rotten Tree Thingy is one of the worse bosses I ever fought in a From Soft game (and I have beaten all bosses in DS2 multiple times). Also the fact that EVERY boss had a phase two did get tiring as I am not a quick learner as others might be so constantly working through phase one just to try and learn the moveset of phase two gets old really quick (especially when for some bosses, a phase two makes no sense).
DS3 glazing is crazy. Ive beaten the game 5 times, including one I took to NG+2. I like a lot of DS3, but the early bosses are either boring or suck. The early areas are awful and made me not want to replay the game over and over. Honestly I'd say there isn't really an area I love, and few I like. Even the DLC is only good bc of the bosses, 2/6 of which are NPC fights. It fails to follow up on many of the improvements brought by DS2, while walking back some of them entirely. And don't get me started on the drab colors and art design. I don't even hate the game, but I think it's overly praised compared to 1 and 2, which are in themselves not perfect games.
2:46 I don't remember getting any answers on this "mystery". I love dark souls but story is mostly ambiguous and your interpertation of the story can differ based on your personality. It is unique and original type of storytelling, but tbh I'd prefer normal story instead, I guess I'm just simple.
The only 3 Soulslikes I've finished are Remnant 2, Another Crabs Treasure, and Lies of P. Maybe its because the games difficulty wasnt bullshit, maybe it was because it felt a need to have an actually interesting world I could get invested in. Maybe it actually expanded its concepts beyond a surface level. I think my point is made lol, difficulty was never what made a souls like a souls like. The world building, interconnected world, and the vibe about it was what made me think of a soulslike. TBH I think people disrespect fromsoft when they say Souls likes are all about difficulty
I think my favorite is either NIOH 2 or LOTF. I feel like those 2 do it right. With their own unique gimmicks that set them apart but they still have that “souls-like” feel. I love the umbral realm mechanic of LOTF and the handling of ranged weapons in that game is peak imo. With NIOH 2. I just like how it really changes the formula the most but still being a souls like enough to count. The fighting in that game is great and the abilities you get are also really cool. Game is HARD AF tho.
With Lords of the fallen 2014 it felt good when I first used heavy armor because there was a very noticeable damage reduction and I used to enjoy the style and graphics at the time. The gauntlet was extra but I didn't really use it much except in certain areas. Building my own custom class was fun even though it was pretty limited, by the end of the game I was running around in heavy armor and healing over time, it felt so op. Lords of the fallen 2023 lost me because of all the tech errors I was experiencing, I lost my character file I had invested time into building up. Fromsoft games just have a uniqueness to them, there so easily distinguishable and yet familiar from each other. Fromsoft games do feel incredibility polished, animations control etc. My favorite souls likes definitely has to be the nioh games and I agree with other comments about those games combat and how they really are there own game. Overall the same I can't bring myself to finish likes with the exception of the nioh games.
I played both Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen (2023) I quit Lords of the Fallen because the spam bosses as regular enemies and hate the living and umbral world mechanic Lies of P.... Beat it 3 times, got all the weapons, did all side missions, I have all the records and I got all the achievements. This is one of the best games I've ever played and is on par with the best souls game, Bloodborne
People still think souls genre is all about slow combats and difficult but they're actually wrong, souls genre is about the explorations, rewarding, and environment storytelling. That's why most soulslike aren't good as fromsoft's souls games (the only come close to fromsoft souls game is lies of P)
i've only really ever played the original Lords of the fallen and nioh 1 like 8 years ago and decided that souls likes will never live up to the Authentic souls feel
Pretty much agree with everything. The only souls like i liked is Lies of P but even Lies of P i couldn't finish,. because everywhere I go I see bloodbourne, whenever I do deflect, I see Sekiro. Like with an ex girlfriend who you wish to be back, everywhere I go I see her face, and it makes my heart pain.
Souls like games are underperforming imo due to two reasons. Studios are trying to replicate the success of a game that will be several years old by the time their title launches, and lack the passion and vision to create something as unique. You see the exact same mistakes being made for Hollow Knight clones.
Souls-Likes are this generations FPS trend from the 2010s. Everything wants to be a SoulsBourne game without actually realizing what makes those games good in the first place. 99% of SoulsLike games are objectively garbage
You can literally find a RUclips video / comment arguing all the possible combinations of for and against. You can like or hate any of them, you can meme any of them to death. That being said, Bloodborne is the the best and f* everything else.
If we consider Black Myth Wukong as a Souls like, It would be in the top 3 for sure, my top 3 are 1: Lies of P 2: Lord of the fallen 3: Nioh 2 If we do consider and factor in black myth Wukong it would be 1: Black Myth Wukong 2: Lies of P 3: Nioh 2 or Lords of the fallen
Nioh 2, Remanent 2, and LoP are the only good soulslikes I’ve played, and personally I find Nioh 2 to be better than any FS game because I prefer good combat (Nioh2 has arguably the best combat system ever created, it’s more similar to Ninja Gaiden than souls) over level design and art style both of which Imo are better in FS games.
Yeah one reason why Demon's Souls was succesful and got popular - because back then games started catering to casual audience and getting game with any challenge (that's not done by giving enemies tons of HPs and damage) was rare to the point of extinction. Indies didn't catch up yet (Kickstarter? More liek Scamstarter, also no Early Access) so they couldn't deliver something challenging yet. Someone (on reddit?) imported DeS and people shared the news about this unknown game. Rest is history...
Don't know how you exactly categorize "Souls-Like" (I might have missed it) but mine would be Death's Door. Such an amazing game. Want to also try Nine Sols as that also sounds like great fun.
-This started as a reply to another comment but grew in scope enough to warrant a comment I believe. - Agreed and I loved my playthrough of Mortal Shell. But that's the thing isn't it? I felt no need to touch the game again after that one run. I started again a few months later but there wasn't really anything to make it rewarding! And the lore, while cryptic, I didn't feel like it succeeded at painting a 'read between the lines' narrative like the fromsoft games did. Dark Souls rarely spelled anything out, but if you read item descriptions and thought about the environments from a functionalist perspective, you got a sense of understanding the broad strokes of the lore, with effort being rewarded with deeper understanding. With Shell, it felt like the writers found a dictionary and wrote a bunch of flavour text containing a certain amount of cool words without much picture of the lore forming over the course of the game. I would still recommend most fans give it that playthrough it deserves, even if just to enjoy the harden mechanic. Few things in soulslikes are as satisfying as performing a jump attack and freezing mid air to 'parry' an enemy attack. Once their attack connects, you revert to normal form and the devastating jump attack you were performing is completed, raining a massive blow down on them
@@ThommyofThenn I wasn’t gonna reply to this until I noticed it was you lmao, and just wanted to say I completely agree with your take, I’m not 100% disagreeable
I just find it funny how there's people that treat Souls games as some kind of religion and try making some kind of weird cult. Wake up guys, it's just a videogame series, not the reason of your existence nor the definition of your personality. Go treat yourselves before you all end fucked in the head and stop seeing videogames as perfect. No game of From Software is perfect, every single one of them has problems and that goes for the entire industry. The only perfect thing about those games exists only in your mind, you're acting like some kind of elitist because of a videogame! *WAKE UP!*
By far the most enjoyable slikes for me are Surge 1 & P. I wanted so much to like others, such as Nioh with its cool setting & enemies, but only Surge & P effortleasly kept my attention & actual enjoyment for many hours
What I don't like about soul games is that there are too few clues and it will take thousands of hours to find them. Without the internet it is impossible to find all the clues scattered throughout the world.
I’ve played them all and like most of them. I think lords of the fallen captured that From dark souls feeling the most and lies of p was bloodborne. My ultimate favorite soulslike is Remnant 2 it’s amazing.
After getting into Souls games and playing DS1, DS2, DS3, BB, and Elden Ring over and over and over I decided to dive into Souls-likes, giving Lies of P a chance because I heard nothing but great things about it I'm not gonna lie....between the linear level/world design, attack and movement animations, and severe lack of side paths to explore and lack of visual variety and verticality in locations, I've quit playing the game on 3 separate occasions, never making it back to where I was previously. I find Lies of P extremely boring As much as everyone said Lies of P felt like the closest to a From Souls game, I just couldnt shake the feeling that I was just playing a cheap knockoff FromSoft Souls game which surprised me because again, EVERYONE was praising Lies of P to the moon and back In my eyes, no one can do it like FromSoft can. No one
Personally, I love Lies of P and the quality it brought to the Souls-like genre. I will most likely pre-order their next game, but your description is pretty much how I feel about most other souls-likes out there.
personally i welcome every souls like games, the same way a jrpg fan would welcome any new jrpgs even though there's probably a million different titles already exist.
Ive not enjoyed a single souls like apart from the Star Wars Jedi games (if you consider them souls likes). However, I absolutely love Hollowknight and other 2d games like it.
For me games like nioh and lies of p not only got the combat right and even expanded on it adding depth. They look great and feel good to play. But im missing the same flavor of story and lore as fromsoft games. Also the invasion/pvp mechanics keep me playing these games forever
I dislike the obnoxiousness if the genre itself, though FS makes them function the best. Only they give actual gameplay variety while others are just the melee-only with little attack variety. I played a demo where you dont drop your "souls" when you die, but the lack of combat feel made me not care anyway. Melee combat in most games suck nowadays anyway.
Another crabs treasure, lies of p, and the Jedi games have gotta be my favorite souls-likes. I'd put Jedi survivor in S tier if it wasn't for the horrid performance STILL IN 2024
I think another thing that adds to the point about difficulty in these games is the souls games they choose to take inspiration from. Many of them are influenced most heavily by DS3 and maybe Bloodborne. Now, these are great games, masterpieces even, but I think they tend to lead developers down the wrong path for adapting difficulty. Starting from Bloodborne, Fromsoft has continued to emphasize the action aspects of their action-RPGs more and more, culminating with Sekiro, which is a straight up action game. And because Bloodborne and the games that followed are what popularized Fromsoft in the larger cultural sphere, other developers look at them and think "Well that's what the difficulty should be; a faster-paced combat system that still relies on a foundation that was created 15 years ago." They think the difficulty should come from dexterity, from your reaction time and ability to memorize hyperspecific dodge timings. To a certain extent, i think this should he the case, but this should not be the *only* aspect of difficulty, or even the main one. The part of difficulty they forget is that part Brollo talks about. The difficulty, and skill expression, in these games comes from using what the game gives you, learning its mechanics, how to craft strong builds, what the items do, etc. The difficulty of the souls games comes from a lack of understanding, a fog that is slowly peeled away the more time you invest in these experiences, and therefore the more you come to love each of them.
No tactics for the Capra Demon fight? The plunge opportunity is taught to new players in the previous boss and is clearly there to be used in Capra fight - it is just a little more difficult to pull off. You also have many opportunities to learn how effective firebombs are, which eliminates the initial challenge of the dogs and can chip away Capra for you in the opening of the fight. Even the cheese for this boss is based in the mechanics of the game, not just a glitch, and could be considered a tactic to overcome this challenge.
is the giveaway still up? you said "souls-like" 23 times. Btw great video! I used to wonder why these games just don't have the same feeling as playing a soulsborne game!
Im sorry but capra demon is no different than any other souls boss. If you failed to beat it your strategy is flawed. I honestly think capra demon is easier than taurus demon
Fromsoft games just do this right, world and charectors lore, environment story telling, perfect enemy placement, variation in areas and boss attack patterns. All these things we remember after single playthrough where in soulslike games it's just forgettable 😅
I like most soulslikes except for Lies of P. I enjoy exploration and build options. Button mashing just isn't what I want in a soulsgame. I recognize it's still a good game. Just not soulsy enough for me.
Played lies of P it’s alright. got to the church area. Died like 20 times in that play forming plank area. Got hit by the ball at the end went to heal and got killed by the guy in the corner. Died a few more times and then uninstalled.The wind ups are also pretty Annoying. But yeah by far the best souls like
What is your favorite Souls-like and why is it Lies of P?
Because of the genius naming choice of the level up tree. "The P ORGAN"
@@redwanzerari lmaoo
Because monkey sees "Sekiro combat + BB combat + Souls combat" without stat requirements, monkey Happy.
it is actually the only souls-like that feels like a fromsoft game
Another Crab's Treasure, then Lies of P, and then... maybe Code Vein?
Lies of P was so good that I got every achievement. I can't wait for the dlc and sequal.
💯💯💯💯
Meh is alright kinda overrated
it's all just VIBES. most souls-like just miss getting the right vibes for a souls game
Lies of p was actually really good
agreed
My favorite game!
Remnant's also a great game.
@ indeed definitely top tier
i gotta admit lies of p was better than everything besides dark souls 1 , i dont mean quality wise or anything just the way those two games made me feel. they did great fucking job
mortal shell has such a strong start shame nothing improves after the first zone
Fair. It almost felt like it took more from demons souls and warframe than dark souls. I still liked it, but...
Mortal Shell feels absolutely horrendous to control. I played for like 30 minutes before uninstalling because the movement just felt that bad.
The only souls-likes I've enjoyed are Lies of P and Another Crab's Treasure, both amazing games. Lies of P has excellent replay value (for me at least) and Another Crab's Treasure has a suprisingly good story.
Valid criticism. My opinion is that most "souls-likes" are not souls-like to begin with. The term is a selling point 80% of the time but it applies only around 20% of the time.
How? Soulslike doesn’t mean it has to be 100% in line with Dark Souls. Soulslike just means it has the basic combat and mechanics that is mostly derivative of Souls games. Nioh, Remnant, Lies of P, the Jedi games, etc. are definitely all soulslike in that sense. Maybe there are some games labeled soulslike that aren’t, but all the ones I’ve seen are.
@@dakotatrue12 as if dark souls invented combat in videogames lmao
Yeah like difficulty? Old games were difficult, does that mean they're soulslikes?
Nioh and Nioh 2 are amazing and have enough different from a typical souls like that I don't consider them so. The Surge and especially Surge 2 are great and Salt and Sanctuary for a great 2d game.
Lies of P is the only soulslike I've played that manages to not only be authentic to From Software, but also manages to iterate on that formula and retain its own identity. Such a great game
Honestly, Lies Of P used to be the closest souls-like to an actual souls game. But after Wukong came out, that game changed everything. I would even goes as far as to say that, that game is as good as some of the Fromsoftware games. Most importantly, it tried to the majority of the game in it's own way, without trying to imitate to much of the souls formula. It certainly deservers game of the year.
Wukong isnt a souls like thought
@@AnastasiaRose.-. it is, just because it wasn't advertised as a genre made by a community doesn't mean AAA games need to label it as such. it quite literally has the same souls formula.
@@interstellar3837 The developers disagree. They say it isn't a souls-like. I don't know. Never played the game. Looks like a souls-like to me.
@@JBrandonMercer123 yeah I know they disagree. But, ultimately it is generally a souls-like because of bonfires, boss challenges to progress through the story, more than one attainable ending. Stakes of Marika, and more. I've played it myself and beaten it so I can say that it is pretty much of a souls-like but it's not really trying to be one occasionally.
Lies of P is so good it made me question why other teams can't achieve that level of quality. The only thing I've played since that gave me the same feelings was the closed beta for Khazan, and that's gone now until sometime in 2025.
I think a lot of teams don't grasp the way FROM's world-design and exploration-flow / itemization / player-customization actually ties into the experience. What makes FROM games so enjoyable to me (and why I like Lies of P and Khazan so much) is that I really feel like I'm making choices that benefit or hurt me based on what kind of character I'm trying to be -- usually, a rogue. Most studios who take inspiration don't really approach that aspect of the experience.
Lies of P (and by the feel of the beta, Khazan) also feel appropriately difficult right up until the end, or until you have so much knowledge of the way the game works that you have instinctive solutions to its most threatening moments - which is fine, even the hardest games FROM have ever made work that way too and it's pretty satisfying to leverage. (Watch someone who understands Sekiro/Armored Core vs someone who doesn't, they make it look easy.)
"Lies of P is so good it made me question why other teams can't achieve that level of quality."
I mean, isn't the answer already clear like the sun in the sky? Of course if you copy a critically acclaimed timeless masterwork like Dark Soul on literally an 1:1 scale, then the final result it is gonna be a tolerable souls-like game like Lies of Overhype.
Im currently working on a souls like game so this video could give me interessting and helpfull input
Understandable if you want to keep it quiet so far but if you wanted to mention some of your ideas or interesting tidbits, please share.
I only ask because this is the third year in a row where a high percentage of my favourite games were made by smaller scale indie devs.
I haven't even bought a 'AAA" game so far this year because I'm still working on my massive backlog of indie or retro games. As such, I am very interested in the entire development process !
@@ThommyofThenn thank you for your interest! So far i dont have an official name for my project (all my datas and folders refer to it as "project: soul blade")
Since a half year i started with planing everething like gameplay, enemies, map, gamemechanic and basicky every other stuff i need for it (all programm and lizens stuff we learning at dev universaty) so far im making the 3d Assets like charakters, swords and archetecture
Setting: u r a sekiro like dude with the order from you god to defeat the god-abondemations because they draining the "living energy" of this world.
It basicly was a elementak-energy-based world who got destroyed because of the war and a small god trys to save it with sending theyr blade (protag). The athmosphare is supposed to be hopless, melanchonic and a nostalgic desire of a lost world and a metaphor of a realationship between mother and son.
This setting is not fixed thou, next week starts the winter semester and i hope i find some guys who got interest and help me out or give me atleasr feedback of my so far concept material
Unfortuanlly it could take pretty long to make (mabey like 2028) BUT if i find helpfull hand, i would decide to poen a channel of our groops name and make a devlog so i could link it down here if you interested.
@@ThommyofThenn thank you for your interest! So far i dont have an official name for my project
Since a half year i started with planing everething like gameplay, enemies, map, game mechanic and basicly every other stuff i need for it (all programm and lizens stuff we learning at dev universaty) so far im making the 3d Assets like charakters, swords and archetecture
Setting: you are a sekiro like dude with the order from you god to defeat the god-devild (?) because they draining the "living energy" of this world.
It basicly was a elementak-energy-based world who got destroyed because of the war and a small god trys to save it with sending theyr blade (protag). The athmosphare is supposed to be hopless, melanchonic and a nostalgic desire of a lost world and a metaphor of a realationship between mother and son.
This setting is not fixed thou, next week starts the winter semester and i hope i find some guys who got interest and help me out or give me atleast feedback of my so far concept material
Unfortuanlly it could take pretty long to make (mabey like 2028) BUT if i find helpfull hand, i would decide to open a channel of our groops name and make a devlog so i could link it down here if you interested.
@@ThommyofThenn hmm thats strange my assey like comment gets deleted
@@andyb.4698 Ok i have had this happen multiple times in recent weeks. They will just completely vanish. It's weird because it normally is totally fine and doesn't seem like a bug
There are some soulslikes that keep up the quality over the course of the game.
The Surge has excellent level design, rivaling DS1 with its many, many, many many shortcuts and focus on tense level exploration. It has a cool limb targeting mechanic that is relevant for the entire game. It mixes up combat against the small enemy roster enough to keep it interesting over the whole runtime and it gets expanded upon towards the end.
Salt and Sanctuary does exploration INCREDIBLY well. It is challenging and rewards observation, patience and care. Enemies are threatening and you can get overwhelmed if you aggro many at once, but generally they come at a very reasonable pace when you don't try to rush. It adds platforming to the mix, and uses it effectively in both exploration and combat from beginning to end, expanding the player's moveset with a few metroidvania abilities.
Also I counted 25 uses of the word soulslike.
Yeah the Surge 1 and 2 are great games. I personally liked Lords of the Fallen too. The new one. I didn't play enough of the old one but starting armor being so heavy you have to level up 10 times just to wear it was extremely annoying. Had to do the whole first area and boss naked.
@@The_Roosta Currently playing through The Surge 2 so can't comment on it. It's a good follow-up but I liked the first one just a little bit more, so far.
@comradecatbug5289 I hated it at first. Went back to the 1st game. And I was bored of the games I was playing and figured I'd give it another shot and once I got a bit further into it I had a lot more fun with it.
My only issue with the Surge was how small variability of enemies it had and only like 3 bosses in whole game.
But I loved the story and the atmosphere. I will always remember when I got to the boardroom at the executive floor, it really gave me the shivers. Plus those creepy cyborgs
The Surge games are fine but they definitely don't rival DS1 in terms of level design.
Lies of P is so so good. Ive always said the soulslike formula has plenty of room for improvement and Lies of P takes every favourable element and brings them together. Its simply the ultimate soulslike experience, above even Dark Souls 3, for me.
Lords of the Fallen was awesome, other than some underwhelming bosses. The level design, ranged combat, lore, and upgrade systems were top tier for a souls-like.
I didn't look at it from this perspective before, but I think you are ABSOLUTELY right. These games usually start really well, and then they eventually lose their charm. I believe Remnant 2, Nioh, Lies of P, and Lords of the Fallen 2023 are the only Souls-likes that keep their formula throughout the game.
All the others, like Nostalgia, Surge, Thymesia, Wo Long... become basic and straight-forward after 3-4 hours.
Leave Wo Long alone
You did not just praise lords of the fallen .. you must be insane, please elaborate
I feel the exact opposite. They start out very painful, and the first few hours are a chore, but then you get the hang of it and it becomes managable and fun.
I like Wo Long, but I couldn't even get past the first boss lol, the second phase with him turning into a monster kept killing me... I also tried Thymesia and thought it was weird, Lies of P has a similar "bloodborne" style and does it way better... Also barely got into lords of the fallen, both versions...
@lololollololol629 I'll admit the first boss was a bit unfair. It was forcing you to get the hang of bl9cking and parrying, but punished you harshly for failing.
Nioh 2 is a better game than at least half of the fromsoft titles… it’s combat has so much depth and complexity that fromsoft games can only dream of. but sadly most people heard it was a “soulslike” so they play it in the most basic, boring way possible as if it’s dark souls.
Also calling it (and probably some others) a soulslike is a disservice. It’s a ninja gaiden like with some souls inspiration
PREACH!
Nioh 2 is def its own thing but i still think the fromsoft games are better imo especially enemy wise both gameplay and design, the complexity of nioh comes from the builds which is why its fun
Night 2 is my favorite Souls-Like of all time and I agree that it's better than most Fromsoft Titles. If your on Console then Wolong: Fallen Dynasty is also great.
Tbf, Nioh 2 is kind of a souls like in the first two difficulties
Agree
It may sound utterly ridiculous to say this, but I feel that not enough recogniztion is given to the importance of world and level design in FromSoftware’s games. In my opinion, this is why most Soulslikes feel inferior, and why so few have grabbed my attention enough to make me want to play them.
Exploration in the Dark Souls trilogy felt rewarding and satisfying in a way that few other games match, and I attribute this to the way that FromSoft incentivizes the player to familiarize themselves with their surroundings by designing their environments to be _intentionally_ confusing and hard to navigate. Because it’s easy to get lost, or to not know how to reach a certain are, you’re put into a headspace where you’re required to pay closer attention and focus more on what’s around you, and as a result, the world becomes more memorable through repeated exposure.
In modern times, this kind of level design is foreign thanks to developers improving at their craft. But an unfortunate side effect of current day game design philosophy is that many people are now accustomed to being told exactly where to go and how to get there - to the point of it even being an automated process, like in the case of fast travel. This means that games with minimaps and objective markers no longer require you to build up that visual library of landmarks and interconnected pathways. And by extension, developers are also incentivized to build more simplistic architecture that’s understood at a glance.
This, much like their approach to difficulty options, is another example of the way that FromSoftware excels in their gameplay experiences by going against the grain and breaking established norms. An area like Blighttown or the High Wall of Lothric would not be made by most other companies or indie developers: a) because the ability to get lost would be considered a detriment to keeping players invested and not losing a potential customer, and b) because the amount of thought and care that it takes to actually construct those environments would be too much of a challenge for development. And yet even just a single location in one of the Soulsborne titles, like the ones I mentioned, feels more interesting and alluring to me than even the _entire worlds_ of some other games.
The two games (that I’ve personally played) that felt like they understood these principles, that had worlds that were reflective of a FromSoft experience, were Salt & Sanctuary and Hollow Knight. And one of those games wasn’t even _trying_ to be a Soulslike.
That's why lies of p, nioh, lord of the fallen doesn't come close to fromsoft souls games, those souls likehave better combat but that's it... everything else is mid or trash compared to fromsoft souls games
Dark souls 1 is a masterpiece.
“Souls like” isn’t a genre. The souls games are a very unique series with a very unique vibe that cannot be replicated.
It's obviously a genre. You're kidding yourself if you cut recognise obvious patterns in gameplay design.
back then it isn't a genre. but nowadays it basically is a genre right now.
Brother really tried being smart but turns out he’s a complete nut job 😂😂 I
@letmetellyouabouttheconsti139 right. It is literally a genre, and the term is one that is now ubiquitous. Accept it and move on
Mortal Shell's harden mechanic was so much fun! Best part of the game but a souls like needs to succeed in more than one comparative metric
Lies of P was epic, Lords of the Fallen was Epic, Another Crabs Treasure was Epic. I'm sorry i have to disagree.
Yeah it's the lore and the world building that makes fromsoft games so special to me. The combat is a bonus to me.
I am playing Nioh 1 now.
I am enjoying it quite a bit.
The story is a bit forgetable, but the premise and the setting is pretty good.
Level design is a mixed bag though.
Combat in the nioh serie is soo underrated
@@vincentmichel5165nioh combat is better than in any fromsoft game
@@omegazx7236 definitely I've been saying that for years
@@vincentmichel5165 Because it is inspired from souls lol so it definitely is better in combat but FSW games far outclasses Nioh in terms of lore.
@@omegazx7236 Sekiro >>>>>>>>> Nioh
I don't like many souls likes because most of them always do something wrong that annoys me.
Lies of P is the ONLY one that has come close to anything Fromsoftware has made. I had some issues with the difficultly and the length mostly towards the end, but overall it was damn solid, and it should be the golden standard for how to make these types of games for every developer going forward
IMO Lords of the Fallen (2023) was the best soulslike of 2023 and easily ranks in my top soulslikes. Yeah, it’s a hard game but it’s incredibly satisfying to me. P was extremely meh but I think Neowiz did a great job, they just played it too safe. Hopefully if they make another P game they add more build variety, ranged options, coop-pvp and more intricate level design. P is basically a good boss run sim.
So, every problem you listed for souls-likes also appears in Fromsoft games, but somehow Fromsoft games are better because ... Fromsoft made the game ...
Last Hero Of Nostragia is like Dark Souls 1, had a great first half but fell hard near the end. Imagine DS1 but after the amazing duel fight, all you have left is Lost Isalith for the remainder of the game.
Damn im making a soulslike myself, very interesting points to think about! great video!
I've been thinking for a long time about the main difference between regular Souls games and trashy Souls-likes that no one cares about. The reason clearly isn't in the lore, the depth of the mechanics, or the builds. Because when a trailer for a Souls-like drops, there's an immediate bad feeling from the first few seconds. And I realized the reason-it's the animations. Every Souls-like, except for Lies of P, looks janky.
The same reason Ds2 is bad from the start. It feels poorly polished Souls-like in terms of animations. The feeling of hits, the combat-it’s unpleasant, no impact. There are often moments where you don't understand how you took damage, because your character simply didn't have a damage-receiving animation (for example, during a dodge). Plus, the character controls very poorly. Often hits in the wrong direction you want, turns around slowly. Try killing a lizard with a rapier-you won’t be able to, it's super hard to land a hit.
This is why I have no intention of ever playing DS2 despite so many RUclipsrs saying "it's actually great!" It simply looks bad, like an unpolished Souls-like. I've watched plenty of DS2 gameplay and it simply is not up to the quality of DS1 and DS3. I think some people have a sort of nostalgia for their own personal experience with DS2 that does not reflect the game's actual quality. They look at it through rose colored glasses. There's a reason 1 and 3 are so well regarded: the director matters. Miyazaki was not director on DS2 and it really shows. It's a real shame they cashed in on the Dark Souls name with that sequel. DS3 should have been DS2.
@@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy the dlc is a masterpiece, Fume Knight, Sir Alone, smelter demon. If you fix your stats to maximise it becomes much more playable btw
"Poorly polished" DS1 lagged to death in Queelag's fight on PS3 and 360, let alone the frequent frame rate drops on Blight Town or Lost Isalith. Stop the religion, those are just videogames.
Damn, am I the only one who prefers DS2 animations to DS1...
@@ЭльдарСергазин-ч3д Don't even try. You're talking to people from a cult, not people that enjoy a game.
Guess I'm adding to your comment section to boost your engagement. You're welcome :)
Dark Souls 3 also had bosses that were not amazing. Curse Rotten Tree Thingy is one of the worse bosses I ever fought in a From Soft game (and I have beaten all bosses in DS2 multiple times). Also the fact that EVERY boss had a phase two did get tiring as I am not a quick learner as others might be so constantly working through phase one just to try and learn the moveset of phase two gets old really quick (especially when for some bosses, a phase two makes no sense).
Ds3 has really mid early game and amazing late game
deacons of the deep, greatwood, wolnir are mid but everything else is perfect
DS3 glazing is crazy. Ive beaten the game 5 times, including one I took to NG+2. I like a lot of DS3, but the early bosses are either boring or suck. The early areas are awful and made me not want to replay the game over and over. Honestly I'd say there isn't really an area I love, and few I like. Even the DLC is only good bc of the bosses, 2/6 of which are NPC fights.
It fails to follow up on many of the improvements brought by DS2, while walking back some of them entirely. And don't get me started on the drab colors and art design. I don't even hate the game, but I think it's overly praised compared to 1 and 2, which are in themselves not perfect games.
@@CatbutnoWares calling crystal dage, alrdich, yhorm, oceiros, ancient wywern, gundyr and vordt perdect is a big stretch
@@Ironica82 if you don't even know the boss names I don't see how you could have played enough to really know what you're on about
2:46 I don't remember getting any answers on this "mystery". I love dark souls but story is mostly ambiguous and your interpertation of the story can differ based on your personality. It is unique and original type of storytelling, but tbh I'd prefer normal story instead, I guess I'm just simple.
The only 3 Soulslikes I've finished are Remnant 2, Another Crabs Treasure, and Lies of P. Maybe its because the games difficulty wasnt bullshit, maybe it was because it felt a need to have an actually interesting world I could get invested in.
Maybe it actually expanded its concepts beyond a surface level. I think my point is made lol, difficulty was never what made a souls like a souls like. The world building, interconnected world, and the vibe about it was what made me think of a soulslike. TBH I think people disrespect fromsoft when they say Souls likes are all about difficulty
The Surge 1 is my favorite soulslike.. but nothing compares to an actual souls game.. especially DS1
I think my favorite is either NIOH 2 or LOTF. I feel like those 2 do it right. With their own unique gimmicks that set them apart but they still have that “souls-like” feel. I love the umbral realm mechanic of LOTF and the handling of ranged weapons in that game is peak imo. With NIOH 2. I just like how it really changes the formula the most but still being a souls like enough to count. The fighting in that game is great and the abilities you get are also really cool. Game is HARD AF tho.
the long and short of it is that most developers making souls-likes simply arent good at making games
Sekiro is not a Souls. If anything, it's a Tenchu-like
Like people know what is tenchu. They only know what is trending
With Lords of the fallen 2014 it felt good when I first used heavy armor because there was a very noticeable damage reduction and I used to enjoy the style and graphics at the time. The gauntlet was extra but I didn't really use it much except in certain areas. Building my own custom class was fun even though it was pretty limited, by the end of the game I was running around in heavy armor and healing over time, it felt so op. Lords of the fallen 2023 lost me because of all the tech errors I was experiencing, I lost my character file I had invested time into building up. Fromsoft games just have a uniqueness to them, there so easily distinguishable and yet familiar from each other. Fromsoft games do feel incredibility polished, animations control etc. My favorite souls likes definitely has to be the nioh games and I agree with other comments about those games combat and how they really are there own game. Overall the same I can't bring myself to finish likes with the exception of the nioh games.
Apart from the boring bosses, I thought LOTF 2023 was great. It had one of the best level designs and exploration of any souls-like.
It was the closest to Dark Souls. I'm amazed at how many people slept on the game or outright refused to give it a chance.
I played both Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen (2023)
I quit Lords of the Fallen because the spam bosses as regular enemies and hate the living and umbral world mechanic
Lies of P.... Beat it 3 times, got all the weapons, did all side missions, I have all the records and I got all the achievements. This is one of the best games I've ever played and is on par with the best souls game, Bloodborne
People still think souls genre is all about slow combats and difficult but they're actually wrong, souls genre is about the explorations, rewarding, and environment storytelling. That's why most soulslike aren't good as fromsoft's souls games (the only come close to fromsoft souls game is lies of P)
i've only really ever played the original Lords of the fallen and nioh 1
like 8 years ago
and decided that souls likes will never live up to the Authentic souls feel
Pretty much agree with everything. The only souls like i liked is Lies of P but even Lies of P i couldn't finish,. because everywhere I go I see bloodbourne, whenever I do deflect, I see Sekiro. Like with an ex girlfriend who you wish to be back, everywhere I go I see her face, and it makes my heart pain.
Souls like games are underperforming imo due to two reasons. Studios are trying to replicate the success of a game that will be several years old by the time their title launches, and lack the passion and vision to create something as unique. You see the exact same mistakes being made for Hollow Knight clones.
Lies of P in my opinion is on the level of From Software's games. Its freaking great.
🔥👍🔥
Souls-Likes are this generations FPS trend from the 2010s. Everything wants to be a SoulsBourne game without actually realizing what makes those games good in the first place. 99% of SoulsLike games are objectively garbage
I dobt like «Souls Like» but I love the actual souls games
You can literally find a RUclips video / comment arguing all the possible combinations of for and against. You can like or hate any of them, you can meme any of them to death. That being said, Bloodborne is the the best and f* everything else.
Animal crossing is the best souls like game
The Surge games have very satisfying combat with some of the coolest animations I've ever seen in a game.
I blame Cuphead for this.
None of this would've happened if that Reviewer would've just beat the Tutorial level in one run.
Lies of P is actually fire, didn't have this much fun with a game since... well, since Elden Ring
Preference issue. Get good
Nice satire!
@@ThommyofThenn cope harder buddy
@@djthundergoose2959 Your comment was so lame I just assumed you had to be joking xD
You're making me ashamed of being a part of Soulsborne community.
@@ThommyofThenn and this guy’s criticism was so invalid to most players my only advice was get bettor or stop playing, it’s not for you.
Lords of the Fallen (2023) and Lies of P are great.
The simple answer is Myazaki. Shame there's only one.
If we consider Black Myth Wukong as a Souls like, It would be in the top 3 for sure, my top 3 are
1: Lies of P
2: Lord of the fallen
3: Nioh 2
If we do consider and factor in black myth Wukong it would be
1: Black Myth Wukong
2: Lies of P
3: Nioh 2 or Lords of the fallen
Nioh 2, Remanent 2, and LoP are the only good soulslikes I’ve played, and personally I find Nioh 2 to be better than any FS game because I prefer good combat (Nioh2 has arguably the best combat system ever created, it’s more similar to Ninja Gaiden than souls) over level design and art style both of which Imo are better in FS games.
Yeah one reason why Demon's Souls was succesful and got popular - because back then games started catering to casual audience and getting game with any challenge (that's not done by giving enemies tons of HPs and damage) was rare to the point of extinction. Indies didn't catch up yet (Kickstarter? More liek Scamstarter, also no Early Access) so they couldn't deliver something challenging yet.
Someone (on reddit?) imported DeS and people shared the news about this unknown game. Rest is history...
Don't know how you exactly categorize "Souls-Like" (I might have missed it) but mine would be Death's Door. Such an amazing game. Want to also try Nine Sols as that also sounds like great fun.
I cheesed the Capra demon with black bombs throwing them from behind the fog wall. That was before I found out about dung pies.
-This started as a reply to another comment but grew in scope enough to warrant a comment I believe. -
Agreed and I loved my playthrough of Mortal Shell. But that's the thing isn't it? I felt no need to touch the game again after that one run. I started again a few months later but there wasn't really anything to make it rewarding!
And the lore, while cryptic, I didn't feel like it succeeded at painting a 'read between the lines' narrative like the fromsoft games did. Dark Souls rarely spelled anything out, but if you read item descriptions and thought about the environments from a functionalist perspective, you got a sense of understanding the broad strokes of the lore, with effort being rewarded with deeper understanding.
With Shell, it felt like the writers found a dictionary and wrote a bunch of flavour text containing a certain amount of cool words without much picture of the lore forming over the course of the game.
I would still recommend most fans give it that playthrough it deserves, even if just to enjoy the harden mechanic. Few things in soulslikes are as satisfying as performing a jump attack and freezing mid air to 'parry' an enemy attack. Once their attack connects, you revert to normal form and the devastating jump attack you were performing is completed, raining a massive blow down on them
@@ThommyofThenn I wasn’t gonna reply to this until I noticed it was you lmao, and just wanted to say I completely agree with your take, I’m not 100% disagreeable
@@djthundergoose2959yeah i apologise, it was late at night and i was in a weird mindset lol. Glad we can find things in agreement
I actually had a lot of fun with LOTF. To each their own, I guess.
Theres only one fromsoftware. Many studios can rip off as much as they want that doesnt mean they can get close to the original gangsta
I just find it funny how there's people that treat Souls games as some kind of religion and try making some kind of weird cult. Wake up guys, it's just a videogame series, not the reason of your existence nor the definition of your personality. Go treat yourselves before you all end fucked in the head and stop seeing videogames as perfect.
No game of From Software is perfect, every single one of them has problems and that goes for the entire industry. The only perfect thing about those games exists only in your mind, you're acting like some kind of elitist because of a videogame! *WAKE UP!*
Nioh 2 is my favorite game of all times, and is a lot more enjoylable than DS2
Nioh along with Remnant and Lies of P is definitely a great game. It is one of the rare Souls-likes to innovate and build a good gameplay loop.
I read the title as souls games I was about to write a (respectful) paragraph😂
We need more nioh2 likes not souls likes. They should just give up after lies of p and elden ring.
By far the most enjoyable slikes for me are Surge 1 & P. I wanted so much to like others, such as Nioh with its cool setting & enemies, but only Surge & P effortleasly kept my attention & actual enjoyment for many hours
I tink it's simple... they cannot get the combat right..LOP came closest
I feel like if your gonna play a soulslike you might as well just play the best , fromsoftware
What I don't like about soul games is that there are too few clues and it will take thousands of hours to find them. Without the internet it is impossible to find all the clues scattered throughout the world.
One has all the hype, the other doesn’t.
Apart from some souls games dungeon level design, most of them are pretty similar.
Black myth wukong is the exception
Cool video. Hey quick question how do you feel about Lords of the Fallen?
I’ve played them all and like most of them. I think lords of the fallen captured that From dark souls feeling the most and lies of p was bloodborne. My ultimate favorite soulslike is Remnant 2 it’s amazing.
Damn, almost started out on-point until you listed Sekiro as a Souls game. But seriously, great video, thanks.
After getting into Souls games and playing DS1, DS2, DS3, BB, and Elden Ring over and over and over I decided to dive into Souls-likes, giving Lies of P a chance because I heard nothing but great things about it
I'm not gonna lie....between the linear level/world design, attack and movement animations, and severe lack of side paths to explore and lack of visual variety and verticality in locations, I've quit playing the game on 3 separate occasions, never making it back to where I was previously. I find Lies of P extremely boring
As much as everyone said Lies of P felt like the closest to a From Souls game, I just couldnt shake the feeling that I was just playing a cheap knockoff FromSoft Souls game which surprised me because again, EVERYONE was praising Lies of P to the moon and back
In my eyes, no one can do it like FromSoft can. No one
Personally, I love Lies of P and the quality it brought to the Souls-like genre. I will most likely pre-order their next game, but your description is pretty much how I feel about most other souls-likes out there.
Mortal Shell just feels dirty. Weird vibes that make me want to take a shower
personally i welcome every souls like games, the same way a jrpg fan would welcome any new jrpgs even though there's probably a million different titles already exist.
Ive not enjoyed a single souls like apart from the Star Wars Jedi games (if you consider them souls likes). However, I absolutely love Hollowknight and other 2d games like it.
For me games like nioh and lies of p not only got the combat right and even expanded on it adding depth. They look great and feel good to play.
But im missing the same flavor of story and lore as fromsoft games.
Also the invasion/pvp mechanics keep me playing these games forever
I would rank Nioh 2 and Lies of P above 99% of the FromSouls games, except Bloodborne, which is my favorite game.
Lords of the Fallen slander will not be tolerated 🙅♂️😠
I dislike the obnoxiousness if the genre itself, though FS makes them function the best. Only they give actual gameplay variety while others are just the melee-only with little attack variety. I played a demo where you dont drop your "souls" when you die, but the lack of combat feel made me not care anyway. Melee combat in most games suck nowadays anyway.
Another crabs treasure, lies of p, and the Jedi games have gotta be my favorite souls-likes. I'd put Jedi survivor in S tier if it wasn't for the horrid performance STILL IN 2024
I think another thing that adds to the point about difficulty in these games is the souls games they choose to take inspiration from. Many of them are influenced most heavily by DS3 and maybe Bloodborne. Now, these are great games, masterpieces even, but I think they tend to lead developers down the wrong path for adapting difficulty. Starting from Bloodborne, Fromsoft has continued to emphasize the action aspects of their action-RPGs more and more, culminating with Sekiro, which is a straight up action game. And because Bloodborne and the games that followed are what popularized Fromsoft in the larger cultural sphere, other developers look at them and think "Well that's what the difficulty should be; a faster-paced combat system that still relies on a foundation that was created 15 years ago." They think the difficulty should come from dexterity, from your reaction time and ability to memorize hyperspecific dodge timings. To a certain extent, i think this should he the case, but this should not be the *only* aspect of difficulty, or even the main one. The part of difficulty they forget is that part Brollo talks about. The difficulty, and skill expression, in these games comes from using what the game gives you, learning its mechanics, how to craft strong builds, what the items do, etc. The difficulty of the souls games comes from a lack of understanding, a fog that is slowly peeled away the more time you invest in these experiences, and therefore the more you come to love each of them.
There IS a strat for capra demon, get poise and poise through the dogs
The Jedi games, Lies of P and Wukong are pretty damn good.
I don't consider Wu long a souls like but between Lies of P & Lords of the fallen is tough to choose from them....
Both amazing games!
I got every achievement in Lies of P twice
This title is so clickbaity, I almost commented on it again after a month.
Oh wait...
No tactics for the Capra Demon fight?
The plunge opportunity is taught to new players in the previous boss and is clearly there to be used in Capra fight - it is just a little more difficult to pull off. You also have many opportunities to learn how effective firebombs are, which eliminates the initial challenge of the dogs and can chip away Capra for you in the opening of the fight.
Even the cheese for this boss is based in the mechanics of the game, not just a glitch, and could be considered a tactic to overcome this challenge.
is the giveaway still up? you said "souls-like" 23 times. Btw great video! I used to wonder why these games just don't have the same feeling as playing a soulsborne game!
Im sorry but capra demon is no different than any other souls boss. If you failed to beat it your strategy is flawed. I honestly think capra demon is easier than taurus demon
You spoke the word "souls-like " approx. 25 times through out the video.
they are not boring. Stop the cap.
Fromsoft games just do this right, world and charectors lore, environment story telling, perfect enemy placement, variation in areas and boss attack patterns. All these things we remember after single playthrough where in soulslike games it's just forgettable 😅
I like most soulslikes except for Lies of P. I enjoy exploration and build options. Button mashing just isn't what I want in a soulsgame. I recognize it's still a good game. Just not soulsy enough for me.
Played lies of P it’s alright. got to the church area. Died like 20 times in that play forming plank area. Got hit by the ball at the end went to heal and got killed by the guy in the corner. Died a few more times and then uninstalled.The wind ups are also pretty Annoying. But yeah by far the best souls like
Before I start the video
I play souls like not for fun
I play it for real life experience