Why Did This Ford F-150 3.5L EcoBoost Engine FAIL?
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2024
- In this video we examine why this Ford 3.5L EcoBoost engine has failed and what is causing all that noise. @ford #ford #fordf150 #enginerepair #automotiverepair #ecoboost #failure #automotive
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Insane that engine was functioning totally normal with a chunk of piston ring and skirt missing. Would have expected the oil control ring to come out as well missing that much support.
It would have eventually blowed a hole in the side of the block
Yes sad to say…anything mechanical can break down even when you follow all the maintenance requirements
Great video
What a shame when the owner did everything right!
Filthy engine internally and high heat.
@@Ranger-vv2jvit's clean...that's not dirty
@@Ranger-vv2jvlooks like he’s probably got an aftermarket tune with all the stuff he has added on
@@FishFind3000 true
Friends don’t let friends buy fords
Glad to see you getting that content back out! We know you're busy. Thanks for all you do! PS, I never would have guessed that the root cause was "piston skirt failure". GOD BLESS, BRIAN!!!
I love my 2018 F 150 3.5 It's been good to me never did me wrong. 257,894 on it now still going strong 💪
any leaks and how many miles have you put on it
I have no issues whatsoever... I run amsoil in it.
@@AllenStuckbut have you owned it since new or you bought it used
I purchased the truck brand new in 2018.
I've got the 2016 3.5L in a edge, normally aspirated. She's been good to me. I use Penzoil platinum 5W30, I will not use 5W20, Ford can get bent. The engine only turns about 1400-1500 @ 55 MPH. So why would you put light oil in a engine that is lugging all the time? Ah to wear out your main, rod, bearings and piston skirts. hmm. This is my opinion, but diesel uses thicker oils because they are lugging engines. I also use Motorcraft oil Filters since I know they have the Anti-Drain back valve. Which is extremely important for most Ford engines due to the fact the filter is mounted sideways.
I will just keep my old 2003 4.6 sohc with 450,000 miles(1 timing set at 212,000 miles as precautions), never an issue and still runs like new...Great video....
Have the 5.4 2 valve and it’s got 318,000 still running flawless. All original internal
I saw an F150 3.5L Ecoboost with a hole in the block at 130k miles. Service history on the truck was perfect. Customer declined the long block. I was so mad for that customer that he did everything right and his engine still blew up. Usually the 3.5L Ecoboost is a reliable engine.
Keyword is sometimes
Hmm so strange.
From my experience with LS engines, turbos, and powdered metal rods, the rod on your failed cylinder looks bent to me. Right down near the wrist pin.
I've seen that happen to LS engines. Rod bends, then the skirt breaks off and you get that noise.
Pull that rod/piston and have a look.
first yaman LS forever .....and 2 hyperutectic and détonation very hard on piston skirt
I think you're right. I bent a rod on a supercharged 4.6 2v (powdered rods too) and it made similar noise and still ran. I cant remember if the piston was damaged at all or not, it most likely was.
In the area of mass production, there’s always a small percentage of failures based on a variety of factors. Quality control is vital to the manufacturing process in any industry. It would be interesting what Ford knows about this issue and if their suppliers knew about this piston head.
More specifically, there"s a statistical distribution for all processes. Call it the bell curve. You always end up with some really good parts (right side of the bell curve), some lemons (left side of bell curve), and most are in the middle. Six Sigma processes seek to control the width of the bell curve precisely, not necessarily make it narrow, through process design and random sampling of produced parts. When you buy OEM parts, they generally have bell curves centered further to the right and that are narrower than aftermarket parts. But because there's always parts on the right side of the bell curve, even aftermarket parts do well sometimes. It's just that they end up back in the shop more often because of the wider bell curve leaving a lot of parts on the left (bad) side.
The problem is it 8snt a small problem this has happened to thousands of the 1 Gen 3 5L ecoboost motor. I own one and it has been the worst truck I have ever owned. Honestly I will never own a newer the. 2010 ford truck again. I currently have a 95 with over 250k on the clock and it is still running strong. However my 2011 with only 103k and was babied it's entire life blew up. Yet my 95 has been abused and used and keeps coming back for more.
Plenty of high mileage ecoboost engines out there with no issues.
@@MendicantBias1 based on who’s information? Our shop talks to Ford techs in our city. Issues with timing chains, tensioners and failing oil pumps on a weekly basis. Our independent shop has done what FMC did to the 5.4 3 valve and replace all of the worn components in the timing chain assembly area but upgraded to the Melling HO oil pump. There’s engine are great for shops.
YEAH and that's why they are *F O R D S* (garbage in - garbage out)
Have a 2012 3.5 that just rolled over 200,000 miles, no issues at all
I barely got 70000 on my 2012 before the timing chain stretch. I replaced it with new VVT's, water pump and thermostat. That's with 3000 mile oil changes.
I replaced a 17 Expedition 3.5 last month with 80k on it. Main timing chain snapped and crashed the valves.
I'm hoping to get 300,000 K
I have a 2011 3.5 with 181,000 miles. Never had an issue!!
2019 expedition cam phasers timing chain 50k . POS
Another Great diagnosis & video !
Now almost a Million subscribers that you have entrusted to your personal integrity.
Brian : WELL DONE !
Might have just been a piston with an internal flaw and it eventually let loose.
I’m impressed that piston ran as well as it did with boost!
defective casting most likely and eventually the piston would have disintegrated completely.
Bad luck to get the one engine with the defective piston, but with thousands produced not surprising to have one bad egg.
People complain about things like this, but if you lived in a world where everything was perfect and lasted forever no one would have a job.
I've been seeing a lot of piston failures on all different makes and models. I wonder how many of these failure has to do with one of the largest piston manufactures moving all of their production to Mexico.
Funny, no one mentioned that, till now.
WOW. Been waiting for a New Video from the Channel and Brian Never Fails to have the Best stuff for us to see. This is pretty Strange here. I ain't seen this happen without Other Stuff being Ripped out also. Thanks again Brian for another Fantastic VIDEO! Keep em coming, we Miss the Heck outta ya!!! MISSING YA Here Big Guy.. Whatcha got for us? This is by far the best place to watch and learn no Doubt!
It's good to hear 'good' tapping and 'bad' tapping and know the difference. Thanks again.👍
Thanks for all your videos! Have helped more than you know with our fleet of Fords!
Great video. It's very kind of you to answer emails my friend sent you about his mid 90's F150 with spark plug issues and torque settings.
My dad's 1.0 Ecoboost did something similar, but the piston didn't completely shatter. Just a chunk of the skirt came off (I think it was Cylinder #2).
Because the entire block is cast iron, the cylinder walls had no visible damage, and the piston was mostly intact, so the head didn't have any damage on it as well. He threw a new piston in, new oil pump and belts, and it's been running great ever since.
1.0L Ecoboost is an engine I would avoid at all costs. Belt driven oil pump. I saw a bunch of those fail when I worked in a Ford dealership.
Fantastic video. The detail on the piston skirt was well done. Thanks for videoing that difficult area.
Oh and Brian, thanks taking time out to show us the carnage.
As soon as you fired it up, I said to myself that’s piston slap. That sound is so distinctive I’ve heard it a hundred times.
When I hear it now, I do hear a distinct rap instead of a tapping noise.
I have a 2013 f150 3.5 that just turned 100k miles that sounds exactly the same. Already replaced the timing chain and cam phasers with no change. Guess I need a new engine. How much does it cost to replace the engine? @FordTechMakuloco
I had an 1970 F350 in the shop with a 351, the reason it was in the shop was the rear axle shaft slid out, and the clutch was slipping. The rear main soaked the clutch so I dropped the pan and 3 piston skirts were in the pan. As per the customer do the seal, fix the clutch and axle and slam it altogether!
Back in the 1980's FORD 302 had "piston slap" on start ups, FoMoCo's response? "That's normal"
In the 1990's when FoMoCo owned Jaguar 4.0L engines had "soft" pistons. FORD has a long history of piston problems from my POV!
Good job getting to the bottom of this one Brian! 😎👍
Great diag video and demo.
Another great video. I learn something every time.
Question: I have a 2016 Gen1 (I think) 3.5 ecoboost and am starting to see some things go wrong, i.e. intermittent antifreeze leaks, slow, and a cracked exh. manifold causing the chirping on acceleration. When I'm ready to overhaul the engine, should I do a stock 1 for 1 swap with a factory crate, or upgrade components that typically fail? Or other option? TIA.
I'm a 70's car mechanic and still going but working on industrial stuff. Back then most engine issues were due to the not so great oils and some people in small towns not heating up the engines enough to not created sludge and failures. But today, even with the best oils ever, I see all brands having issues that are destructive long before their time, excellent maintenance or not. Poor engineering and materials seems to not be specific to any one brand although some have way more issues that others. Like all the 5.4 3V with phasers. Other MFG brands that have VVT and all the extra and critical parts to try to make the engine get more gas mileage but then sacrifice on durability. Can't we got back to basic engines and just use the multi speed overdrive transmissions to get that extra MPG, because all these vehicles don't really seem to get the extra MPG and stay together for long enough to make it all cost effective. As here, a person can watch engine failure issues all day long and never run out of one to watch.
Love your channel. Has helped me alot with my 2011 Ford F150 fx4.
Wondering if I could pick your brain with some issues I am having with mine.
Quick version:
losing power ( think it's timing chain )
Random shifting or staying in high gear ( lead frame )
Turn signal stays on or won't fully engage
Rearview mirror backup will stay on for some time after shifting back into drive.
Tried scanning with forscan and Vlinker FS USB but keep getting connection issues and warning about not being able to read PCM DTS.
Here's the kicker: put about a yard of soil and sand in the back, and the truck ran like a dream for 2 days before I got the majority of it out. It was not in Tow/haul as when it was the issue came back.❤
As far as engine failures go, this was a best case scenario. It clearly ran good enough to get him home and not leave him stranded on the side of the road, like a LS would.
Thought for sure it was a valve spring…bad piston manufacturing?
Thanks Brian for the great videos !!!!!
Or this was at the edge of "net fit" manufacturing. If that's true, how many engines are shipped out that have this kind of net fit.
Thanks for posting. Question how many miles were on this engine? And is it a rebuild able core?
Had a gen1 eb farm truck for 7 years had the heck worked out of it never had major failures, 135k still ran strong.
I have 211k on my gen 1 running fine. Interesting he had after market coil packs 🤔. Just did my valve covers thanks to you!
That would really frost you as an owner who tries to take good care of his engine and still has an indeterminate piston failure! All metal parts have a fatigue life, I guess that piston reached it's, a shame.
I love your videos because your constantly repairing F150s and telling me that Fords are high maintanence..
Thanks Brian
thank you
Thanks Brian, even if he was leaning on the engine it’s very unusual to break a piston skirt don’t you think. Even though it’s the load side there really isn’t a lot of pressure there, just my humble opinion, thanks for the upload.
Definitely don't see it very often.
Tuned vehicles usually break the ring land from massive amounts of cylinder pressure... But most likely it was The operators fault could have been manually shifting and hit the rev limiter or something like that
I really like this guy, very informative. Watching his videos definitely keeps me away from any Ford products. I think he has good Job Security Specializing in Ford.
Looks like a high rev burnout.. and then suddenly your tires catch traction.. That sudden deceleration pulse at the crank.
He would have DEFINITELY heard it when it happened. I don't think he's giving the whole story. Maybe he let someone else drive it. but oh well
As someone who drives the non eco 3.7 it is ridiculously difficult to resist tromping that pedal on these vehicles. I kinda tense up when mine hits 6900 on the tach, but merging into 70 mph traffic is more fun.
I tend to agree with that. I have a '19 with the 3.5 and find that it is ridiculously easy to break the tires loose especially with the 3.55 rear end gears
@@jeffisaliar I drive a '12 Mustang, 3.7, 115,000 miles. It's making a similar noise now. I changed to 20W50 oil, and it helped a lot, but still there. Should I drop the pan for a peek?
I hope and pray that FoMo. is watching and taking notes... great content Brian, be safe pardner... 👍😎
Not much they can do about this issue, it was probably a defective piston from whoever makes the piston for Ford. The design of this piston looked to be rock solid. However in turbo applications I would've preferred forged pistons and crank.
Ford could give a flying F.
Hi, love the channel and all the content! Have a questuin about 2019 3.5 with 64K and needs phasers but has had the FSA reflash to the ECM. How can I email you? Thanks
I've been a loyal F150 owner for 20 years but this channel and my own experience with my 2019 5.0 has me looking at Tundras. Anyone feel the same or is it just me?
I would wait a year or two on the Tundra. They have been having issues with the new engines locking up. Wait for them to work the bugs out. I have a 2014 with the 5.7 I force. The engine is pretty bulletproof but not easy on gas. Too bad they stopped making them for that reason.
It's just the Internet. The bad stuff catches our attention. Millions of Ecoboost out there with no issues, but that doesn't make for good entertainment. That's not to say nothing ever goes wrong, but the major Gen 1 and Gen 2 Ecoboost issues have been identified, so now you know how much cash to set aside.
New tundras with turbos are having just as many problems as ford.
@@kineticchiropractic8268 They haven't been around long enough to see what percentage wind up with issues. Give it a few more years.
Keep what you have. The 5.0 is a beast.
EcoBoost was EcoToast! Guess: Original tiny casting defect kept getting gradually worse. ..... It's 10 years old, and cracks can propagate s-l-o-w-l-y in those piston skirts over time. When a jet engine blade or disk crack is present, sometimes it will take years for the engine to actually fail in flight (took 18 years for the 1989 DC-10 Sioux City crash to happen, from an oriignal manufacturing defect). So my guess is an original factory casting defect, and a "Fatigue Crack" propagation, making it past the warranty period.
Had the same thing happen to my 67 289 back in 1980. Piston Skirt pieces made it past pick up screen, locked oil pump and twisted distributor shaft.
When I worked for Jeep the 4 liters had huge piston slap issues. We would tear them down and find skirts in the pan pretty regularly.
The thing is they would run forever like that.
It was a poor design. The castings broke just under the pin holes. But they would just keep putting along.
Always on the thrust side
Engine is super clean
Wow that is wild, just one side of the piston skirt, just looking on the top side motor you would think anything
was wrong, a super clean motor. A maybe a fracture crack when the piston was made maybe? For sure 100%
it doesn't look like abuse or lack of care.
My guess is a micro crack in the skirt from when it was cast and over time it fatigued and let go.
Typical of what happens to airplane parts such as jet engine fan blades.
Love my 2020 expedition, Ecoboost 3.5 for me from now on in all vehicles!
Yes!
Thank you
Mines sounded like that! But the tapping wasnt as forceful sounding. Brouught it to the dealer and they said they changed the cam phasers. The tapping is gone after that. 2019 expy
I have same engine and yr model mine when u get on gas like to pass someone or pulling something up hill it does like a hunting or skipping but anytime else it doesn't do it.Would u know what may be wrong
My old 351W’s you would find piston skirts in the pan before rebuilding every time.
I would say that someone that uses Duralast ignition coils isn’t someone that treats their engine as they should. Obviously this didn’t lead to the broken piston (most likely a manufacturing defect) but just an observation.
Yeah, and why replace all the OEM coils with cheap junk anyways. Just replace the bad coil.
Had a friend do that (replaced all the coils and tossed the OEM ones, and then every 6 months to a year one of the duralast coils would fail when the OEMcs lasted over 10y before one failed. And it was only a 4 cylinder..
Were those duralast coils? They looked a little funny. Yeah why would you do that!!
Maybe a shop put them in and used Duralast to save money and charge more? We don't know and obviously it's a moot point now.
Dirty Last huh? 😅😅
Was that rod bent on cyl 2 near the wrist on the side where the camera was on?
How many miles were on this engine?
I really need a Timing Job done on my 2011 F150. I just can't bring myself to do it again right now. I have already done it once and money is just too tight right now.
Can this happen with the 2021 f150 3.5? My truck sounds the same way. I change the oil diligently
Weird failure. Just curios, and I don't have a ton of experience with this kind of thing, but is the reason for swapping in a new engine simply that it's cheaper to grab one from a wreck than it is to rebuild that block, or would that block be toast? How did the bore on #2 look?
Always love these videos. You helped me with my timing and my 3.5 is running great 4 years later.
Sad to see any EcoBoost break just because. But it can happen. Hope my 2.7 behaves. Would love to see any follow-up on this.
I have a 14 3.5 and the exact same thing happened after oil change. it actually threw a connecting rod. Same cylinder. Only had 97k on it.
Thankyou reverend makuloco
Curious to see if the spark plug and top of the failed piston shows sign of detonation/pre-ignition.
Hi FTM, I suggested to Ford that they contact you and get your opinion on things Ford.
Looks like rod is bent. Which can cause this failure. Wondering if the owner hydralocked the engine.......maybe doing an intake valve/engine decarbon cleaning or possibly sucking up water?
Wooow nice job Ford and nice 2 se you again
Wow! I drive an old 1995 Ford ranger XLT 2.3l manual transmission with 330k original miles. This is the one with the 8 spark plugs.
Reason why I don't let it go is, the quality of ford trucks today. Also the outrageous cost on what is meant to be a work truck. Hope it keep running until I find another truck with good quality and low miles lol.
I've got a 96, 250k. Great mini truck. 1 clutch. 1 timing belt.
@@edjacobs8876 same here, I did the timing belt and water pump simple trucks to work on. Paid for clutch job.
FORD TECH MAKE YOU LOCO 😜
Its a ranger. Hardly much of a truck when any random honda has more power and torque.
Ive had no problems with modern Ford truck quality. 300k for me is three years on a truck. Expensive, thats an entirely different matter. They are ridiculously expensive.
Maybe there was an air pocket in the piston when it was formed? I know a guy that had a crankshaft break in 2 and he was told there was an air pocket in the metal when it was made
I have a 2014 f150 with the ecoboost. I just recently purchased a brand new (not reman) long block, and I'm installing it in my truck. My question is, should I go ahead and open the motor to install the Melling HV oil pump, or should I leave it as is? The motor has a 5 year warranty, FYI. Thanks for the advice in advance.
The piston is also cracked up beyond the oil control ring
Looks like the rod in the offending cylinder was bent. Is this the case? If so that'd explain the damaged skirt which likely came in contact with the counter weight.
2013 f150 platinum 4x4 ecoboost ac relay not getting a signal jump it out and compressor runs?
I've never had one of these down. What are those marks on the side of rods 2 and 3? And number 2 looks bent. That will take out a skirt.
I don't remember seeing this kind of failure on older 8 cylinder engines.
They don't make as much hp per cylinder and don't tow my 7k camper at elevations over 6,000 ft like an Ecoboost.
When you changed the engine, did it get 2 new turbos?
Damn this video has me worried about mine. Guess before I go get the stuff for a timing job I may want to inspect further.
10:30, zoom in. You can see a crack through the piston in the opposing direction if the wrist pin. Possibly started out as a broken ring land from detonating and grew to the point of breaks chuck of the skirt off.
I thought that looked like a crack as well. Is that a cause or a result, though?
Pretty wild, I’m surprised the truck ran as well as it did. I wonder how many miles were on it, unless he mentioned it and I missed it.
How much would my 2016 ford f150 valve cover gasket for both sides cost to replace?
How much does a new engine cost? Would it be worth rebuilding this one?
Good rebuilable core!
How many miles was on it?
could be the camera lense but that rod looks bent just below the pin. skirt to crank clearance few people think about. seen the exact same thing on a chevy 454.
I had a chevy 350 that was running fine when I shut it off then when I went to start it up after work something acted like it was locked up so I kept bumping the starter and it finally cranked over and fired up, it sounded like someone was banging pots and pans together inside the block so I shut it off and had it towed home, once I got around to tearing it down I found number 8 rod bent and twisted in such a way that it shrank the piston straight down to where the skirt was contacting the crank counterweight there wasn't any damage to the cylinder wall, the crank, bearings, heads, valves, cam, lifters, rocker arms or piston tops, still the strangest thing how the rod bent and twisted while it was just sitting there.
@@AreaThirteenThirteen Fuel or coolant may have entered the cylinder and it hydrolocked the piston bending the rod.
@FordTechMakuloco You said that they were replacing the engine. Just curious; is this a repairable failure, or is it just so labor/parts intensive that it's more economical to replace the engine. Do you buy a created new engine from Ford, from a rebuilder, short block/long block? Thanks.
How many miles? Was it tuned? Seems like ringland failure... high RPM or mo'boost?
Those Tundras are vicious on gas. Go for it!!
Good ole Motorcraft oil , nice varnish. Not saying oil caused it but that's a lot of varnish, neglected it would be sludge . But he was using a cheap oil .
Yep, kinda strange to blow off the skirt on that piston. I was guessing a skirt popped, because I didn't like it when Ford used the long skirts that were real thin and skinny at the end that had a tendency to snap off. (with many miles on them) I'm not sure why those certain engines had that design.
As for this engine it looks like a normal smooth wide skirt base, which should hold up just fine. As some have said though, it may have been a casting defect.
As far as in my opinion, if you're going to be building engines with turbo, you should be running forged pistons and cranks anyway, from the get go.
At least this particular year 3.5 I like the inards due to the fact it is a normal overhead cam without rocker arms/followers.
Last sentence, it is possible his son borrowed the truck and was out rod stretching the engine. A computer scan usually can tell on you when it comes to WOT commands. lol.
@fordtechmakuloco any info on the new 2021+ f150s 5.0 and 3.5l? Seeing anything common with them yet?
nope
Hay how would I go about getting ahold of you to ask some questions about my 2010 5.4 I just did a timing job on it and am having some issues that I can't figure out.
That sounds to me like the metal experience fatigue. And the Pistons weren't hardened enough. And made strong enough to withstand high stresses
Why is there so much varnish in this engine at the front and oil pan? Everything else seems clean. Sounds like the owner was on top of the oil changes. Cheap oil?
And for a 'recent' oil change, that oil sure was dark.
What spec oil? Could be LSPI.
Can it be fixed and sold seem like a great engine still
I have a 2005 F150 bought it in 2017 at 134,000 miles now has 219,000 miles on it just did a timing job a day ago have always taken care of the oil and all the other fluids. I’ve had replaced the AC unit four years ago. I have replaced the transmission three years ago at 203,000 miles . I replaced the alternator last year replace the spark plugs two or three years ago, but after all that, after the timing job, the truck is quiet, it sounds just like when I first bought it totally worth the money how many more miles you think after all that I might get out of this truck
Brian,
Thank you for this. What was the mileage on that F150?
@6:47 Isnt that a piece of piston ring in with the chucks of piston skirt?
Yes as explained it was an oil control ring.
Thanks for another telling video on anything ecoboost, love it. I'm a gen 1 f150 2011 with 162k so far with no major engine issues.
When this engine first came out it was tortured in a trophy truck and survived I've never understood in a normal application it fails so often!
Super knock can cause broken of piston skirt. You may want to check the knock counter in the PCM.