The 2300 Days Deception: Adventism Challenged!
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- The foundational text of the SDA Church is Daniel 8:14, where they appeal to prop up October 22, 1844 and the start of an investigative judgement in Heaven. But is that what Daniel had in mind? 2300 days or years? Does the Day/Year Principle apply to this verse?
In this clip, Dr. Samuel Frost, Th.D, a Daniel scholar and translator, shares his thoughts.
Watch the full stream here: ruclips.net/user/live0edqzbqwPPs
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Daniel 8:14 Explanation
0:50 - 2300 Evenings and Mornings Interpretation
2:37 - SDA Movement's Unique Understanding
9:46 - Misinterpretations of Daniel 7
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The Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Man is a sinner (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8) and our sin has separated us from our Maker (Isaiah 59:2). In His grace, God entered into His own creation in the person of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14; Col. 1:19), born of a virgin (Matt. 1:23), and lived a perfect and sinless life, fulfilling all the Law’s demands (2 Cor. 5:21; Matt. 5:17), on a mission by God the Father to save sinners from condemnation (John 3:16-18, 6:37-40). He paid the penalty for sin which is death (Romans 6:23) and bore the sins of His people in His body on a cross (1 Peter 2:24), making propitiation by His blood (Romans 3:25). He died, was buried, and resurrected in the same body He died in on the third day for our justification (1 Cor. 15, Romans 4:25; Luke 24:39). By a living faith (James 2:18) in the Person and Work of Jesus (Romans 10:9-10), God graciously declares a person righteous (Romans 4:5), they are reconciled to their Creator (Romans 5:10-11), given Christ’s righteousness in full (Phil. 3:8-9), sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and have peace with God (Romans 5:1). They are born again of the Spirit (1 John 5:1, Titus 3:5), adopted into His family (Eph. 4:5-7), and are granted eternal resurrection life in Jesus Christ (1 John 5:11), set free to do good works that please Him (Eph. 2:10; 1 John 2:3-4). Jesus will physically return one day to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:5; Acts 24:15; John 5:24-5), throwing the wicked out of His Kingdom (Matt. 13:41-3), but His people will be spared from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 1:10) to dwell in union with God forever (Rev. 21:3).
#danielandrevelation #endtimes #answeringadventism #adventism #religion #christiantheology #seventhdayadventistchurch #apologetics #adventistchurch #sdachurch #sabbath #threeangelsmessages #threeangels #theology #theologymatters #christiantheology #christianity #thegospelofjesuschrist #doctrinematters #apologetics #christology #sda #spiritofprophecy 
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What are the 2300 “evenings and mornings” pointing to? answeringadventism.com/does-hanukkah-refute-the-investigative-judgment/
Glad to hear the truth! Been saying this myself.
Even if you take the 2300 days to be years it still doesn't add up to 1844. The Adventists do not take into account that the biblical year is 360 days not 365. Also, they don't take into account leap years which over 2300 years really add up. In short, the 2300 year reckoning actually comes up short by about 30 years or so from hitting 1844.
I see what your saying... But evidently, they're not adding up literal days, or even months.. but "years" .. regardless of however many differing days or months are in them?
@@ChrisTian-tz3eq But it does matter. You can't just transplant biblical calendar information onto modern Gregorian calendar calculations. It doesn't work like that. You must apply it as it is. A year in the Bible is made up of 360 days. That is the calculation you must use if you want to calculate it according to Scripture. Otherwise, you're not staying true to the Bible, which Adventism doesn't do in a host of other things as well.
@@justanotherlikeyou .. No, you're not understanding what i'm saying... They're trying to apply a day for a year principle to that prophecy...
They're counting 2300 years.. not actual months or days.
Even with a Jewish calendar; they add a whole-nother month ( 30 days ) in their leap years.. but it's still considered part of that "year".
@@ChrisTian-tz3eq No, I understood exactly what you were saying. My point is that the Adventist move to do that is invalid. And your point about the Jewish calendar actually proves my point. The Jews themselves don't calculate their "years" with the Gregorian calendar "years". They realize there's a difference between the biblical calendar and the Gregorian calendar, differences Adventists don't take into account when they attempt to calculate _biblical_ years.
@@JamieElison Ok thx! I just copied this down to study it out, just in case it does get removed again! Ha! ... I do tend to suspect that this prophecy may fit multiple application of patterns! ; )
Those of us who are extremely familiar with the so-called 2300 day/year prophecy -- contrived by SDAs from a patently erroneous interpretation of Daniel 8:14 -- know, or should know, the following:
1) There is no biblical support of any kind for the so-called "year-day" principle of prophetic interpretation where the word "day" is used symbolically to mean "year." The word "day" is sometimes used in a formula, such as in Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:6, but never as a symbol where the word "day" is intended to mean "year."
2) Daniel 8:14 does not use the word "day."
3) Scripture does not identify the beginning of the Daniel 8:14 "2300 evenings and mornings" period with sufficient exactitude to pinpoint the date that period of time began.
4) Daniel 8:14 is ambiguous as to whether 2300 "evenings and mornings" should be understood to mean "2300 literal days" or "1150 literal days."
5) Ellen White and company were obviously unaware that Daniel 8:14 does not use a word properly translated "cleansed," but instead uses a word properly translated "restored' or 'vindicated."
6) All knowledgeable historians and biblical scholars are aware that the Jerusalem temple was defiled by Antiochus Epiphanes, and was "restored" and "reconsecrated" during the Maccabean period -- an event celebrated by Jesus as Hanukkah. (John 10:22-23)
Common sense tells you that the notion that the bible predicts an event in heaven some 1800 years after Jesus' ascension has no rational or scriptural support, and was contrived to assuage the cognitive dissonance of a handful of people who could not come to terms with "the great disappointment."
And imagine, their entire system hinges on this.
Boom!!!
So give the beginning date and the ending date ... when Antiochus come in and left. got to remember Daniel 8:14 says then after that the sanctuary is cleansed!
@@jimbob1644 “Cleansed” is not the correct translation. The date of the restoration of temple sacrifices is well established as December 25, 165 B.C. There are other possible dates. Regardless, this passage was fulfilled before the time of Jesus. Jesus recognized that the temple was properly cleansed and rededicated when He attended the Feast of Dedication, commemorating the cleansing and rededication of the temple after the desecration brought by Antiochus Epiphanes (John 10:22).
@@jonasaras why would it matter if Jesus commemorated it ?it has nothing to do with the prophecy? you got the wrong date up there already. It was December the the 16th 167 B.C. And an the cleansing was finish December before 25th.164 b.c.. there's no way you're going to fit even half of the 2,300 days into the subject. it's impossible .and it's not ever spoken about in the Bible in the Book of Daniel.! Daniel 8:13 says there's two things going on. He's adding them both together .notice the (both!)
The 2300 in no way supports the sda 1844 IJ. Any SDA that thinks so hit me up and leta go live and have a respectful conversation.
Lol it's been like a year since I've seen this Channel and just reading your response I already knew your screen name. Hilarious
Feedback for your guest. Slow down and concentrate on finishing sentences. When you abort every sentence midstream, it gets REALLY difficult to follow.
Thank you for sharing your research.
Thanks!
SDA's are inconsistant in the application of their day to year substitution, for instance they don't use that method for Daniel 10:2-3.
God's word is living (Hebrews 4:12, 1 Peter 2-3)
How sad that so many are deceived by the dead words of a dead woman who has been believed to be a mouthpiece for God based solely on the claims the of the select few who would profit and some gullible, vulnerable people. This is over 100 years ago- a time when people were impressed by such dramatics such as Ellen White's trances and circus theatrics. Most Christians at that time knew better than to join the SDA church . Most of Ellen White's large family didn't join the SDA church either- probably because they believed the bible over her and her testimony.
Absolutely!
God is faithful to all His promises, and to His covenant people Israel. As we watch with sadness the events shaking the world, we know that our sovereign God is still in control. He continues to work out His plans and purposes, drawing all things to Himself. There will be a time, just as Yeshua predicted, when the Jewish people will finally call out from the land of Israel to welcome their Messiah, “Baruch ha ba be shem Adonai! - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!”
Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the SECOND time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea." Adventists when did God bring His people, the apple of His Eye ISRAEL back into their land a SECOND time?
First time was the rebuilding of the temple after Babylonian captivity...that temple stood until 70 ad...but when was the SECOND TIME the Jewish people were brought back into the holy land ad God said He would in Isaiah 11:11???
Your theology can't stand the test of REAL SCRIPTURE from the real mouth of God instead of SDA flimsy prediction by a nononiscient trio of beings that EgGwhite introduced you to in how "they" interpret the Word as evident through her "visions".
God doesn't break promises to make new ones...replacement theology is divorce theology.
Amen . And the uploader probably doesn't believe what You Wrote. You're the most honest person on hear!
I want to thank this channel for effectively misrepresenting the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. It's mainly because of this channel, I became a Seventh-Day Adventist 6 months ago.
Doesn't change the facts.
@@answeringadventism no, but you do. I whole heartedly thank you.
@@FishermensCorner so now you're saying the second Goat in Leviticus 16:10 ( is the devil)! and He is your atonement at cross. As it says right in the verse of Leviticus 16:10.. who is Jesus Christ himself 1 Peter 2:24 ... The devil (,according to your investigative judgment. And your false prophet Ellen)....says the devil.) Is your atonement! and that is what you said is the( truth )when you became a member.. of SDA. In your confession of faith.
@jimbob1644 You do realize Jesus returns and Judgement is given, correct? So not only does the Jewish interpretation still perceive it as such, the second goat is removed from the Nation and destroyed; that's literally what's described in Revelation as the Second Death when all evil is destroyed.
@@FishermensCorner Jesus said He's the second Goat on the cross!( he's the sin Bearer. On the cross ..!after that there's no more second Goat! It was finished !!!Isaiah 43: 25 . Jews still don't recognize who Jesus is! and neither do you!
Literally Daniel 8:14 reads 2300 evening morning. This in in the singular. SDA church connects the vision of Daniel 9 to Daniel 8. This is the same connection that the highest ranking freemason William Miller did. Dan. 814 says that the sanctuary will be cleansed at the end of 2300 days or years. The sanctuary is restored to its rightful state. However SDA teach that this date marks the beginning of the cleansing. This is missing logic of the chronological events.
So the ram and goat are literal then.
Awesome !
Since you know then tell as about the 2300 when is it going to begin since you know everything
“Since you know everything”
Bearing false witness as I have never claimed this.
You can go watch the whole stream which is in the description box or go to our website.
This verse is not some grand mystery and people have known what it was in reference to long before the SDA church was around.
answeringadventism.com/does-hanukkah-refute-the-investigative-judgment/
So... What ARE the "2300 evenings and mornings" referring to?...What dates?
I never did hear their answer in the video.
@@JamieElison.. Well that's a shame. : (
@@JamieElison no one deleted your comments, Jamie. And you’re about to be blocked as you continue claiming this and spamming our videos claiming the same thing. Obviously your comments are visible as here we are responding. If you continue you’ll be blocked. Sick of you guys crying about stuff you know nothing about. RUclips has filters and filters comments. We don’t have time to cycle through hundreds of comments. So stop lying.
@@ChrisTian-tz3eq if you are an SDA we can talk in a live discussion about Daniel. You up for it?
@@SolaScriptura21 ... Yea, my grandmother was an SDA.. I inherited her books .. Just trying to find out what things are lies, and what things are legit.. Just because they have Yah's weekly set-apart, appointed-time right, doesn't mean that they got all the truth down right, nor any other church "corporation" for that matter either, obviously...
@@ChrisTian-tz3eq that is amazing, your grandmother's books, I would love to hear which ones. You up for having a chat tonight? I am PST, it would be for 9pm my time
It’s not easy to be Adventist today. The soon-return-of-Jesus is hard to inspire members as decades roll. The Sabbath is hard to honor as research continues to cast doubt on the idea of a-seven-days creation week. Global integration makes it hard to respect the administrative system due to the collision of cultures. We should, therefore, show compassion towards modern-day Adventists. Their health message is, however, still relevant.
Whats interesting, is, if you read the selucid historians and they do not know why antiochus was really the only selucid ruler that acted this wicked towards jews. Clearly it was judgnent on the transgressors by God.
So are you inferring that the day/year principle was not used by biblical scholars before William Miller? Was it not previously used by Christian reformers as well as Isaac Newton? Just attempting to fact check your information as you encourage us to do. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
That prophecy dealt with events during the Greek empire that was to come. Go back and read.
No one here said the DYP wasn’t used before Miller. It isn’t even valid to use it in Daniel 8:14 which is why no one before SDAs did like SDAs do. Because the word day isn’t in Daniel 8:14.
There is no text in the Bible that articulates a day/year principle that is to be used as a magic decoder to interpret prophecy.
@@reidveryan9414 except it says it is from( their descendants at the end of time!Three times in the Book of Daniel 8! And Matthew 24: 3
Thank you for the clarification. Many of the reformers did use the day/year principle. But what you are saying is that they did not use it when interpreting Daniel 8:14? Only the Millerites and later the SDAs used it to apply to this verse? Do you feel it is never appropriate to use the day/principle when interpreting any Bible prophecy?
We could also apply the evenings and mornings to the flood
... And will probably even be a literal evenings and mornings, at the very end of days as well (?).. according to re-occurring biblical patterns.
It tells you right in the middle of Daniel 8:13 what is! He's adding two numbers together! Notice it says (both.) This was already printed but the uploader has removed them! and says he doesn't do!
The entire book is prophetic and speaks of the near and the distant future. The prophecies of the image in Daniel 2 and the four beasts start in Daniel's day and cover human history until Jesus comes again! Myles, do you think the Rock that destroys the image in Daniel 2 represents Christ 2nd coming?
In Daniel 12 we see the prophetic nature of the book spreading into the distant future! Daniel 12:2 says that many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be wakened some to everlasting life and others to everlasting death. I don't think this has happened yet, has it? Jesus speaks of this same event in John 5:28-29.
Daniel 12:4 tells us the books full meaning will be unknown until the "the time of the end." The very last verse in Daniel tells the prophet he will rest in the grave until he is raised " at the end of days." Job also speaks of this resurrection in Job 19:25-27. He says, "For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; 26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God, 27 Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" The Bible says in our flesh we will see God!
With all that said... why does it seem strange that the 2300-day prophecy may also refer to a long period of time? Afterall context is everything, right?
Just curious what you and your friend think about these things!
Happy Sabbath, brother!
It is kind of hard to understand him...
The word day isn’t in Daniel. It has nothing to do with using day for a year principle because that has nothing to do with what Daniel is communicating.
yes I got that, but he presupposes so much that it is hard to follow@@answeringadventism
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tvIn the Hebrew it isn't the word for "day", it literally says "evenings and mornings". Even if you say it is 2300 days it still doesn't add up to 1844. The biblical year was 360 days and not 365. Also, it doesn't take into account the leap years which over 2300 years really add up. In short, the 2300 year reckoning falls short of the year 1844 by about 30 or so years.
@@justanotherlikeyou the uploader has erased Mary's comments ..because she's actually telling you the truth ,!and he doesn't like it .he doesn't even check it out.! Just thinks she's harassing him. she's actually helping him and he's throwing her out! He's being watched by multiple computers. And her nephew works with Google. watch what might happen!
@@jimbob1644She wasn't speaking the truth. That's why I responded to her the way I did.
"There isn't anything to suggest that [the 2,300 evenings and mornings] should be taken as years"
...except for the fact that the 70 weeks of Daniel 9, which we can all seem to agree _was reckoned year-for-a-day_ , was the first 490 of the total 2,300 years in question. It stands to reason that the remaining 1,810 years are also year-for-a-day (unless one is a Dispensationalist who has trouble with counting in sequence or thinks that God does).
That, and _so much truth which prophecy reveals, is thrown out the door_ if one is brainwashed with the unnatural Dispensational notion that the 70th week was cut off from the 69th and is yet to be fulfilled. Of course, _obscuring the meaning of end-time prophecy in the minds of Protestants_ has always been the objective of the Dispensational view, ever since the Roman Catholics invented Futurism.
Nice
So is the Pope .the Antichrist.. still future prophecy for you??
So is the pope, still future prophecy?
@@jimbob1644 Clearly the Roman Catholic Papacy has existed for centuries. Is there anything in what I said that you believe would suggest otherwise?
@@mytwocents777 yeah you say it's futurism doesn't exist.. and you're not telling the truth..( because that's future)! and that is what all prophecy is about.. but you don't recognize it ..the whole book of Daniel Daniel 2 Daniel 8 Daniel 7 Daniel 9 Daniel 10 Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 are all about your pope and his leader. At the end of time .but you don't recognize it .Jesus tells you how to do it.. in Matthew 24: 15. It is second Thessalonians chapter 2 Revelation chapter 11 in Revelation 13+17+12 in the New testament. And you're saying what I'm saying is not truth!! but what you're saying is the same thing. You just don't know it. It's called futurism by your own words!
Please read Heb 8:1-5. Jesus IS the minister of the sanctuary (the earthly?? No. Which the LORD PITCHED.(did God pich the earthly sanctuary?? No ) and NOT man. The earthly WAS a pattern ,verse 5 (copy ) of the heavenly which served as an example ans shadow of HEAVEN things. This is how I read my Bible. Sorry I am not very bright
If you reject 1844, you reject that Christ is the Messiah. Sad at the level of your ignorance.
Or let's say you're reckoning using the gregorian calendar.
"Truth" is Revelant to what you want to believe. The 2300 year prophesy must be correct because it involved the first coming of Jesus which came true Dan 8"9-12. I find things pertaining to our salvation from.sin is nothing to laugh about. The loud laugh speaks the vacant mind
No, sir. There's no "2300-year prophecy", and the first coming of Jesus is not contemplated in Daniel 8:9-12. Our laughter is not directed against the Bible, but against the SDA clumsy butchering of the Bible.
It's sad
?????????
Dude's brain is moving faster than his mouth...so confusing to follow. WTH? Probably a decent scholar but his ability to communicate that knowledge/info is lacking. Painful to listen to.
Really? So you are the experts?
Considering that Dr. Frost has translated the entire book of Daniel and has his Th.D, yeah, he is an expert by definition.
But that’s irrelevant to the point of this clip. The word day isn’t in Daniel 8:14. Which is why no one else arrived at the erroneous conclusion SDAs have. Doesn’t take being an expert to recognize this.
Why don't you have him put up the beginning date of of Antiochus of epiphanies ..when he showed up ,and and when he left ,and let's take a look at the numbers ..would that be. okay?
Only the holy spirit is the authority n expert
@@anthonyparak3507 I agree with you. when it comes to prophecy.. that's not happening here!
@@answeringadventismthere is nothing like a bible expert. A humble person who reads his or her bible diligently under the guidance of the Holy Spirit even if he or she is not educated understands God's word better than the so called "expert." The wrong principles were used to interpret the book of Daniel. You attack Adventists, but sadly, you don't know that you don't know.
Hey guys you are talking about the bible but you are not reading the bible. No you are out, please try and listen to those who are reading bible students.
This is a shame. The 2300 days prophecy is prophecy that real and part of it is already fullfield.
Dr. Frost translated the entire book of Daniel (you’d know this is you watch the whole stream) but he isn’t reading the Bible?
Ok lol
Could you explain .what part has been fulfilled?
@@jimbob1644: Can you? The whimsical, false SDA explanation that Daniel 8:14 is related to a celestial antitype of the Day of Atonement claims the end of the 2300 evenings-mornings marked the BEGINNING of an investigative judgment. The whole thing is crazy. In the unrelated, purported type, didn't the whole process of the Day of Atonement last for less than 24 hours? How come your false investigative judgment has been going on for 179 years? Is that the year-day "principle", sir? Your trash will never be accepted by any thinking Christian.
You talk about the bible as if you were talking about a movie, and on the long run never explained anything, although you pretend to know all. God have mercy.
Yep. He's blocked me on many occasions by pointing out specific examples.