How Schools Fail Autistic Children (feat. Untypical by Pete Wharmby)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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yep! GROUPWORK: either I wasn't listened to or I did most of the work. there was no in between.
No inbetween at all!
Or option c:
Thinking you're doing all the work, but when your group's rep does the presentation, they read off a paper they got from someone else in the group... And you realize that as far as they were concerned, you were never actually part of their group in the first place.
@@Mental_Health_Gym Yeah, that too. :(
Same experience, though not until my 20's. One time I just got so frusterated that I just did my own project and let them do their own, since they were pretending I didn't exist anyways... I had points deducted because it was suppose to be a group project, but my solo project still got a higher score than the group who ignored my existence😝😏.
@@amy-avnasWe have to appreciate our small personal victories 🤗
I always tell people that school was like prison. I did my time and got out
It feels very similar, doesn't it?
73,
Mike 🧡
I am so glad I was homeschooled. I didn't like school still, as I still struggled a lot. I only went into the regular school system for a couple months in high school and that was a nightmare experience as it was. I can barely imagine how horrible it would have been for me if I had always been in a regular school from the start😬😨😖
@@amy-avnas Wow! I can imagine that was still incredibly difficult suddenly navigating the high school experience
Fr.
Aside from unbeknownst to me my sensory issues, the worst part of school was the constant torture from other kids. For the whole of school. They smelt that I wasn't like them, that sort of uncanny valley that I wasn't a real person like they were
Same:( i h8 school
Same. I was “othered” but wasn’t exactly sure why other than being told I was ‘weird’ or ‘creepy’.
Sad when you consider how actually easy it would've been for them to be more accepting towards us, it seems a lot of kids aren't taught empathy though.
@@cass718 I was also "othered" throughout school.
I am the Mother of an Autistic child. He is 12. I also suspect I am Autistic but undiagnosed. I have struggled so hard to get him through help and accomodations he needs. He has violent, angry meltdowns. I finally made the decision to homeschool him for his upcoming year. I am tired of the school failing him. I am scared and overwhelmed but hopeful.
I don't know if I am Austisic but I suspect I am. And as someone who was homeschooled their whole life practically, I can say it will probably help your child a lot. It will be a lot of work though, but I think its a wonderful thing!
I was homeschooled most of my life and it helped me mentally. When I went into public school I became almost permanently dissociated from masking. I had public meltdowns in front of teachers and other kids. I became delusional in part due to not knowing why I was different from the other kids. I’m glad you’re doing this for your son. My little cousin has similar issues and he’s being homeschooled by his mom and he’s thriving.
I wish you and your family all the best. These are not easy decisions. 🧡
When my mom homeschooled me for a short time it was the first time I felt like I understood math. She was so proud of me. I fell behind again the moment I went back to public school. I wish you all the best!
My mom raised 4 kids and we've only recently been piecing together that we're ALL autistic. The oldest was diagnosed with dyslexia early on, during an era where the schools didn't even believe it existed. She took him to another state to the guy who wrote a book on dyslexia to get him diagnosed. It was so severe that one eye saw things upside down and backwards, the other eye right side up and forwards, and he had no dominant side of the brain, so what each eye saw flipped randomly. In one school system my mom was told that if he failed 2 school years, they never had to graduate him. He graduated in time, with his class, all because our mom worked night and day with him to get him through it. He also had extreme ADHD. My second brother was well mannered and did so well in school that he was pushed by his teachers and ended up graduating early. My sister was diagnosed with a brain tumor as an infant and had brain surgery to try to remove it. They were sure any growth spurt would kill her. So thinking my sister wouldn't grow up, my mom never pushed her in school. She just wanted her to be a sweet, happy kid as long as possible. Now my sister is the mother of 4 and grandmother of 3. Then there was me... I was having meltdowns. My mom knew something was up with me. But I excelled in school and was the only one to go to college and get a degree. My mom recognized in me traits she had, so she handled me a little different. On days when she knew I just needed a break, she'd keep me home from school. She would write a note to the school to say I was sick. I would say 'but I'm not sick, I can't lie.' To which she'd respond "you're sick of school, aren't you??" 😂 Worked for me! I was pushed back after a week in 1st grade. Knowing what I know now, while I still disagree with the teacher's accusations that I wasn't paying attention... (I was struggling to keep up! And so was everyone else. They apparently were just less obvious.) Now I see the benefit to the extra year that helped put me a bit more on track in some ways. Figure in that my mom never allowed me to get a job in school. Even in college during the first 3 years. We tried during the summer after my freshman year for me to take 2 classes and have a small job. But during the main school year, absolutely not. After 3 years I ended up taking a 2 year break before returning. (Long story, and maybe autism related, but not in a burnout way.) I think all of those factors combined helped prevent me from getting burned out and quitting altogether anywhere along the way. Now I know I'm AuDHD.
I work with kids with autism. The kid I was working with when covid hit used to come out of school crying half the time. He was unable to tell me why. And it was difficult to calm him down. After covid hit, he came to my home every day to do school on zoom. Essentially I did everything online, then I turned around and re-taught him everything that was said, but in a way he could understand. He EXCELLED!!!! He learned so much in the year I worked with him one on one! And in that time, I could count on one hand the number of times he cried! I could also pinpoint the cause, too. One time he had to sit through a video in health class about a girl who tried drugs and died. All he got was that somebody was hurt very badly and that upset him. I had to turn it off and have the aide tell the teacher why I removed him from that lesson. He didn't need to listen to all the reasons why drugs are bad, etc. He wasn't the kind of kid who hung out with kids who could convince him to do anything like that. He just needed to be told 'drugs are bad' and move on. It was a great teaching tool for most kids. But with him it had a very different effect. I was so glad to see what was happening and know what was causing him to be upset so that I could intervene and help him. It was so nice working with him during that time! I didn't even care that we were stuck at home with no place to go. The year prior we had been at Disneyland almost daily, which was fun, but it was also negatively affected if he came home from school upset beforehand.
All that to say... as a parent, you are your child's biggest advocate! Especially if you are on the spectrum, as well. You will understand him like nobody else! Home schooling may very well be the best thing in the world for him. Do what you need to, and don't worry about the rest.
As a late diagnosed autistic adult, whenever I arrived at a classroom in highschool and saw that the tables were in group formation I would just walk right out of the school. I ended up skipping class almost every single day and just wandered around the city with my noise cancelling headphones on. This resulted in having to do chores after school hours as this was the penalty for skipping class at my highschool. I did not mind this however as this was the only time of day the entire building was not filled with noisy students and I did not mind helping out the janitor. By the end of highschool I spent the majority of my time not at school and would sometimes only come back to do chores. I 100% agree that highschool is the worst environment for autistic (+neurodivergent) people.
Oh gosh you made me remember the horror of seeing Tables in Group formations, absolutely agree!
Gosh this reminds me of doing Socratic Seminars *shudders* those were certainly interesting, sometimes engaging if you got a good class. But if you didn’t…. Extremely painful.
You messing up your grades was completely your fault...
School was hell. Absolute hell. Group work was awful, I was constantly bullied (not only because I'm autistic- it's mainly just that I'm odd.) The flourecent lights were absolutely awful. Horrible. The projectors were these grey boxes that flickered and hummed constantly. Passing periods were awful- three thousand kids walking around and talking in the hallway, not a single space for quiet. I had breakdowns nearly every day, and had to rush into the bathroom to cry by myself.
And of course, knowing bathrooms (especially male bathrooms, I wasn't fortunate enough to have any gender-neutral bathrooms and if I went into the women's bathrooms I would be called a creep.) My teachers were always one thing or the other; "Oh- you're so smart and you need to try harder!" or "Absolute dick. Doesn't pay attention and doesn't even try."
I vividly remember wondering- and this was probably back in year 8- what was wrong with me. I was just crying and breaking down in class constantly and yet I didn't understand why nobody else would.
Now here with an autism diagnosis at 25 (bday was 6 days ago) I finally understand.
For stimming- I was never really a leg-bobber or anything. Well... Instead, I evolved from a blanket to a stuffed animal to a peice of cloth I would tie to my wrist (and I still do).
Of course that was weird too- but the smarter teachers I had never cared because they figured it out before my parents did.
Bullying? Yeah. I was bullied constantly (bi, trans)... And it wasn't the steryotypical bullying, which would have been better. It's hard to even talk about it- but... It was barking, really. That was the beginning. Then eventually them and their posses came up to me and treated me like an absolute idiot. "Oh, my freind is into you!" Other times it was just slurs. I got the F one quite a bit. Never really got called an a-ist or anything- but I did get called r- once. That was fun.
People would be like "why are you staring???" or "stop staring, weirdo" I thought it was polite???
TL;DR: School bad.
Well... That was a rant- Things are better now, though- and to all of my fellow autistic people here- it will get better
I get ya:( Russian(in my case) schools are awful. Teachers are underpaid even in moscow, therefore most of them hate kids and openly say that. Grading system is awful: mark 5 is the best ,4 is good, 3 is considered passing but practically if you get 3 people equate it to 2, and 2 is the worst. Like, u obviously can’t fairly grade students work with only 4 marks, 2 of which r socially perceived as failing. Also building regulations for schools are adapted from american standards, so there’s no quiet space too. Teens are assholes just like everywhere obviously. And no creativity/uniqueness is welcome, if you want to get out alive and w good grades you need to just throw your personality out of the window.
Sorry for venting:(
Hahaha! Missing the supposed power dynamic in group work is definitely my thing. I've received so many eye rolls and dirty looks from the person who somehow gets perceived as the "leader" when I miss that milestone in the group and keep trying to consider options. I don't understand why people assume i think I'm forcing the project to go in certain directions. I don't need to control the outcome, but if no one else speaks up I'm going to advocate for my ideas! Right? Right ...? Oh. So it just makes me seem like a know-it-all jerk? Great. Cool. I'll shut up now I guess. Lol
I feel you. So hard. That's why I relate so hard from Logan Logic Sanders from sanders sides, there's literally a counter of how many times he's been cut off or ignored and its almost reached 100.
School is like jail; an asylum; those old people’s homes. A few people trying to manage large groups of people whose behavior is unpredictable. The goal is primarily to keep everyone in the building and prevent “incidents”; any other activities are secondary. 😑
I always felt like I was being "sneaky" escaping to my quiet spaces at school. While I don't recall being reprimanded, I was awash in internalized shame because #1 I was "breaking a rule" and #2 if anyone knew, I was certain of being accused that something was "wrong" with me. I have to be really kind to that part within me now and remind it that "random people's opinions can't actually hurt me, and when ppl I'm close with share such things, the comment reveals them for who they are and i can choose to keep my distance and seek better friends/family"
Yep I totally failed school, it left me mentally broken. I was "too smart to have a learning disability".
I managed to scrape by with classes and get B’a and a few A’s. I was always labelled too smart or too extroverted. I was diagnosed at age 9. Yet I wasn’t told by my family until I was 19. It really hurt. I struggled so much to be” normal” not realizing I can’t be the normal they want.
Ugh. Group projects. I INVARIABLY wound up doing all the work and feeling used while herding neurotypical cats. Absolutely awful.
I just hid in the library on my lunch breaks. Read a lot of good books during my miserable high school years. Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, more Kurt Vonnegut than was probably healthy...
I was a fellow library hider, but was diving deeply into the sociological history of the dominator culture, which effectively meant that by the age of 13 I was permanently existentially overwhelmed. I read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee when I was 11, Mein Kampf at 12 and that was it for me and the dominator culture. One of my therapists said to me the other day that if sapiens has any hope of long term survival the Autopia needs to occur.
Hello, fellow Hitchhiker! I have a Don't Panic tattoo 🛸 Thank you for the reminder. I oughta get back to my library. It always feels like home away from home. 📚 🏠 Which is an achievement for this spicy nervous system! 😂
School uniforms: because sweating all day in cheap material that doesn't fit right is totally fine and never made me want to claw offy own skin. My primary school was too cold, my secondary school was too hot. And yeah I found quiet hiding spots and hated group work.
Looking back now through an autistic lens I think I was particularly fortunate for my introduction to high school. The school I attended (QE2) was brand new with wide corridors. Because it was new there were only half the pupils attending so for the first few years it wasn't at all crowded. Also, as the library was brand new the librarian was very pleased to have me spend my every break time covering her precious books in sticky back plastic. So just by default I ended up with having a quiet space usually to myself in which I got to do a repetitive task and do it to perfection....The challenge of covering a book without a single bubble or crease in the plastic still brings me joy to this day!
Group work though I agree was a nightmare as was being picked for teams in PE...so demoralising always being the last to be picked...
That sounds like heaven, holy cow!! The book wrapping, of course. I also dreaded any group sports. They were horrible. 🙈
Back to the library though 🤓
What a beautiful time to catch your breath and accomplish something tangible in the middle of a busy school day. And you got to basically put little shields around the books you treasured. Woah! How neat. Glad that librarian made a welcoming space and activity for you 😊
Left school for online school, best thing I’ve ever done. Bullying and rumors finally broke it for me.
Glad this adjusted format helped you so much! One of my friends did this ages ago. We're no longer in touch, but I wonder if she might have been neurodivergent as well. In lockdown, I found remote work to give me SO much energy back. 😊
In high school I hid in the library. It was quiet and most people left me alone. I now understand why the cafeteria bothered me so much.
I was recently diagnosed as AuDHD.
Much as I disliked school, I missed the structure of it. Group work was another reason I didn’t like school. Always got shoved into giving the oral presentations…even though I don’t speak very loudly.
My kids school required diagnoses for assistance. My daughter (ADHD) could have a wiggle seat, a fidget, extra time or fewer steps on large assignments, take tests in separate room and untimed (also could have adult read her the questions if needed), this extended to the PSATs and SATs. My son (ADHD) could have a wiggle chair, a chart to show him what he should have on his desk, no fidgets (he can turn anything into a toy, he’s probably also autistic), occasionally could have a small piece of putty to roll between index and thumb, options to take tests in different room, no time limit on tests, more time or fewer steps for large assignments, those same options for the PSAT and SAT tests, and in elementary school time outs. He had some emotional regulation and transition from tasks issues. He really didn’t like when other kids suddenly changed the rules of games.
School very much was terrible for me and I’m glad I could make it a bit better for my kids. Also, even though I was placed in special education from grade 3 to high school graduation, they would never tell my mom my learning disability. I know now though.
What city, state do you live in?
@@LeslieT. that’s more personal information than I like to give out. I will share my state as Michigan though.
@@tracyhue23 sorry for asking
@@LeslieT. no worries. Just trying to stay safe as possible in the internet.
Out of curiosity, why’d you ask?
Because we’re not the norm. Got diagnosed around 26 years old. People treated me as a smart cookie or an idiot.
School was awful. Slightly improved by going home for lunch.
Such a common experience. Although, I wish I could have gone home for lunch break!
Had to go sleep. So much overstimulated.
One year I lived across from the school and could go home for lunch.
Ooh, I used to sit in the stairwell with my friend-group of other misfits and some transitory acquaintances.
I ended up doing all the work on a couple group projects, but for at least one of them (an acid-base titration in chemistry), I was quite content to do all the work. The acid/base indicator was one that turned from colourless to pink at a certain acidity, and I was willing to take time to get it as pale of a pink as I could perceive without it being clear. My lab partner kept saying "It's good enough" but I didn't think so. He just gave up and left me to it eventually. I had so much fun.
Thank you for the video!
The misfits! We found each other in the last two years of high school, which was a relief for me. At least, those of us with lower social credit scores could find friends in each other.
Oh, titration! Hated doing that! I was far too clumsy to use MANUAL VALVES! lol.
Seeing my name in the patron credits always makes me smile haha!
This is a great community with great people sharing all their knowledge
Me, too, GwenX - thank you so much for supporting me! It really is the best community! 🧡🧡
hey, cool pfp !
I’ve read this book and now passed it to my good friend who is NT. He says he’s finding lots of things that resemble stuff I’ve told him about myself.
This was a major issue in my life as a student and young individual. I just recently attributed issues with school layout to my autism.
I went to the same school for years and I never got used to the layout and movement of students and staff, probably because we switched classes so frequently and every so often all of the electives and I'd have to navigate a completely different area.
Like you, I would try to follow someone I knew was in the same class as me. I've also accidentally wound up in the wrong class.
I was lucky enough to have a few teachers throughout my school career who recognized that something stood out about me and they treated me with kindness and care. I'll remember those teachers forever as the good ones 😊
I eventually couldn't handle all the stress and homeschooled myself in the last few years of highschool.
That school was much bigger and less predictable than my middle school was, plus the students themselves became a lot more hostile (not even towards me, but they were more rambunctious in general).
Starting in kindergarten and lasting until the last day of public school I had stomach issues, and I believe they have to do with stress and anxiety. I would get really sick before going into the building and sometimes during class or lunch breaks. What a living nightmare.
my school doesn't have many of these issues, because it doesn't have a cafeteria (we eat in the classrooms) and the teachers don't really mind when kids do autistic things or need accommodations. however, a new school is going to be built in place of our old school, and i really hope it doesn't have a cafeteria because cafeterias are too loud. also, most of the kids at my school are asocial and we don't have much group work
Such information is best kept private on the internet. Only share what you feel comfortable sharing.
I was allowed use of the pastoral classroom most lunchtimes. It was quiet and most of the kids in it had autism, anxiety, learning disabilities or multiple of the above. Not sure how I wasn’t diagnosed as a kid because my differences and social challenges were absolutely noticed and some teachers actually helped me.
The pastoral classroom sounds like a really cool space! Glad they welcomed you into it 🫶🏻
I wasn't diagnosed with Autism until I was in my 20s. Was the quiet child and got bullied by almost everyone and no one could really help me. My diagnosis really explained my behaviors in childhood to me and I feel a bit relieved
Man, I haaaaaaated group projects in school. In 8th grade I got assigned to work with an annoying guy who wouldn't follow directions for our science lab even though I kept telling him he was doing it wrong. Then when the teacher told us we did it wrong and I told him it was the guy's fault, teacher asked me why I didn't tell him it was wrong. Grrrrrrrr. I still have zero ability to get groups of people to listen to me and it is really frustrating.
My primary issue with school was my peers. Once I decided I didn't care about them, school was an enjoyable environment.
School was hell for me. I had pain most of the time from the hard chairs and the loud noises. I couldn't bear most of the kids and I just wanted to be rather at home where it was quiet. The breaks were so dumb, all the kids wanted to play and they touched me so often. I just wanted to stay inside and read. After school I was so exhausted and overwhelmed that I had to sleep. And of course they mobbed me. I couldn't do group work, I couldn't function in school most of the time because I have ADHD, too. I only was good in German (I am german) because it's one of my interests (I even studied linguistics later and I am a copywriter). All the other things just weren't interesting to me. Plus how are you supposed to think with all this sounds and lights and stuff?! I have no filter at all.
I am happy that I was also chronical physical ill so I was not at school most of the time... 😂
I was pretty smart, and school was still hell for me. Socially I didn't ever have many friends, but by 7th grade I literally had no friends at school. I had one friend at church, but I only saw her about once a week. That year was the loneliest year of my life, and even though the next year I found my core group of friends, I still spent like, 4,5, maybe even approximately 6 years without any true good friends, moreso just acquaintances. I think that's just one piece of the large puzzle of why I suffer with so much mental illness now.
And THEN I made the decision to go to fucking college... It was an absolute waste of time and money, everything was 9000000% worse than it ever was in elementary or high school.
group assignments is just a leader appointing others to do the work and then not doing any there selfs
In my school experience as an autistic student, the transitions between classes were hell. I had a particularly accommodating teacher at the time, though, that would let me leave a bit early from her class so I could avoid all the the students, even though I wasn't diagnosed at the time.
My first high school didn't have long halls. It had a fair number of small buildings with 4 classrooms each. You had to walk outside between buildings. It had a few larger buildings as well. So it wasn't too bad. The bullying was much less than in junior high school as well. I had a group of acquaintances that I ate lunch with. We ate outside in the warm weather and in a hallway during the winter. We rarely ate in the cafeteria. But the cafeteria was not crowded because mostly only disabled students ate there. The two older grades could go off-campus to eat.
At my HS we had a hallway filled with vending machines, It was connected to the cafeteria. But it was mostly quiet and not a lot of people would go there. So for 2 years that’s where I’d hang out during lunch break. It was way too loud and crowded in the cafeteria for me. Once I found a place to hide, it became something i looked forward too and enjoyed doing. Had a few friends that joined me sometimes. I never really thought about it much until now.
Oh same. I lived off vending machine chocolate bars and hot drinks. The vending machines at our school were in a u shaped corridor that ended with some doors that led out to a rear carpark, it was always quiet. I never used the cafeteria it was too confusing to navigate all the rules and the people. I mainly sat on the bank behind the science buildings, also near the rear carpark, which I think was for overfill purposes. It always quiet back there. I also think it was meant to be out of bounds as it was away from the playgrounds and fields but I was never told off for sitting back there, it was a refuge from the onslaught, there were no quiet spaces, it was the 90s.
As a teacher I think at least 1boy in each classroom, so 1 boy in 25 is likely. The girls are there too though...but they hide so well. I struggle identifying them, even being autistic myself.
I suspect, as testing becomes more sensitive to how people deviate from "typical", that the percentage ASD may go up as high as 25~30% of the population, at which they start to decide it might be a good type of diversity to channel into 'hard' subjects where actual work needs to be done.
I went to school in a building with 2,000 students... K-12. The core building was built in the 1930's or 40's, and enlarged on the same plan. "Old-school". Sit quietly in your seat and nobody but the teacher spoke, seating in rows, limited time in the hallways. Actually better than what you described. Groupwork only came in later. Students with good grades were assigned to be group leaders, and after one cycle, the group rebelled, "What makes you think we're here to pay attention to this stuff and get good grades? We're here to talk to our friends." *sigh* ..
None of the teachers contacted my parents because my mother was a teacher just down the hall, shop steward for the teacher's union and the entire school's go-to teacher for giving her disciplinary problem students. Their siblings would accost me in the halls with "Do you know what your mother did to my brother?" to which the answer was the same, "I'm her daughter, I can imagine. Can you?"..
I loved the learning and hated the social environment, and it didn't get any better at university.
As my grandmother said to my mother, "You will never understand that child.".. I'm happily doing translation work in Japan, along with anything else that comes along (writing, teaching, relocating families into the country).
I don't remember almost anything from when I was school, 'cause apparently that's how my brain deals with trauma. It's not _just_ because of neurodivergence, I got other shit too, but 12 years of masking certainly didn't help. Once I graduated I had massive burnout (which I wasn't aware of, because I didn't know that was a thing) and I still haven't gone back into education :/
🧡
Things that teachers usually hate and punish you for: being frank (communication difference, no ill intentions), correcting a teacher when they're obviously wrong, avoiding eye contact when they talk to you, stimming, not being able to pay attention in class because the last break was such a mental disruption, needing breaks during lessons because of over-stimulation, not answering/reacting to a teacher due to a shutdown, simply being "the odd kid who doesn't fit in", heck, even being able to answer questions when they think or want to catching you out for not paying attention.
School was a living hell. I've had many teachers in many schools but there were only 3 in my 20 years of being a student that I still have respect for. All the others were just evil and destroyed a large part of my life, made me HATE the education system and prevented me from following up with higher education.
If the world would create a supportive schooling environment for ND people, it would benefit humanity greatly. There would be so many more Bill Gates's and Elon Musks who use their out-of-the-box thinking to find solutions for everyday problems that we face. NT people just don't understand how much damage the current schooling systems are doing to millions of people around the world.
I myself an a late diagnosed autistic adult though I'm also legally blind diagnosed as that as a 7 year old 1st grader the lights were my biggest difficulty point as they give me headaches or cause dizziness granted my elementary school had 6 exit points including 2 sets of doors at the front 1 set from the swimming pool etc.
That's another book I'll be buying on Kindle 💯 it will be interesting to hear it from a teacher's pov. One improvement I noticed from my own school days was when I worked as a cleaner in a primary school in Wales, they had a sensory room in what was called the special needs wing. I loved it, got caught a couple of times just zoning out in there which in hindsight was probably a good sign I wasn't NT 😂 luckily the head cleaner out of the 4 of us didn't seem to mind, I think she probably had a good idea too since she showed me how to turn on all the various lights etc. when she caught me literally stroking the fluffy wall and staring into space.
Like most people, I hated my own high school days (for the short time I went). I had some friends in passing but they never stuck around and the rest of the kids either took the mick out of me or ignored me, I preferred the ones that just ignored me as I hated being seen but even those ones would laugh at me with the mean kids. You would think I'd be easy to ignore with only being 4ft 11 but they always found something to poke fun at no matter how much I tried to be quiet and blend in.
My favorite day at school was ironically supposed to be a punishment for skipping school, it was a thing my school did called isolation where you got put in a small room by yourself till the end of the day. You had all the same work as you would in class for that day but no other kids and no needing to move to different classes, you also weren't allowed to take breaks at the same time as everyone else which I suppose was another punishment for most but again I was quite happy to walk around the field for "exercise" on my own with a teacher keeping watch while all the other kids were inside.
When I heard about my son's school's "iso(lation)" policy, I knew that if I were back in school I'd do whatever I could to get 'punished' by it. That sounds like a better way to pass the day too. -Mike 🧡
Ngl, I spent the entirety of my teen years and adulthood always having to leave classrooms and workplaces to go to the bathroom. A LOT. I didn't know why though.
Finding out I am AuDHD literally made me realize why I was so painfully bored in certain jobs, distracted in others, frustrated in others, and having no idea why I felt like a failure.
Since finding my Autism in April (I already had an ADHD diagnosis as a child), I've been more forgiving to myself and my life's difficulties.
I only related to bits of Pete’s school experience. I was lucky in one way that for some reason I got befriended straight away and basically stayed in the same friend group right into secondary school. It was after leaving school and moving house that I found it impossible to make new friends. If those childhood friends had not befriended me early on I don’t think I would have been able to make friends of my own accord. At least some of them might well have been ND I think.
I did do things like hide in the big Laurel bushes at playtime sometimes and often went off by myself to find places in the woods and under the tarp on the high jump, but I never thought that was weird and nobody ever tried to stop me.
In primary school it was the teachers and dinner ladies that were the most evil vindictive sadistic ones; the kids that would bully and tease etc were pussies by comparison. This was in the 70s and I’m sure people became teachers because they enjoyed humiliating and torturing kids.
I enjoyed group projects. But ONLY if I was the leader. I liked being in control and divvying tasks and making all the decisions. I felt that everything would be chaotic and the project would be shit if I didn't lead. And i was usually right, if the other groups were any indication. The parts I struggled with were: "quiet" rooms (where every sound is amplified and distracting), passing periods (too crowded to get to class on time without sprinting once I got outside), PE (i don't know what "showing effort" means), and homework (sometimes because it wasn't clear what I was supposed to do and sometimes because my homelife took all my spoons).
*having flashback from eleven years of public schools*
Also, your cat is beautiful.
I'll be sure to tune in next Saturday.
Is school and academia had been as easy as the workforce, I likely wouldn't have been diagnosed
Same
I was in Montessori schools for the most part from age 2.5yo to 6th grade. Most of my immediate family were Montessori teachers.
So many aspects of Montessori schooling align with the needs of autistic children. (Was Dr. Montessori autistic?🤔)
First of all, Montessori preschool has exercises that develop every one of the senses. There are shaker sound matching exercises, smelling exercises, even tasting exercises.
"Practical Life" exercises (like pouring rice, or sewing a button) have the purpose of developing focus, attention, and fine motor control.
Students are given a lesson on how to use a learning material, then are allowed to explore that material until satusfied.
In elementary, there are 5 Great Lessons that introduce and give a context in history of the main curriculum areas. Students are presented with an array of topics (eg the evolution of all life) and invited to dive deeply into one ("let's pick an animal here to do a research on - trilobites? Great!")
Many lessons are not given to teach, but to inspire interest, and students are allowed to pursue an interest as deeply as they want.
The learning itself can grow into projects naturally. Students ask if they can work with their friends together, therefore, many group projects are only students who want to be there, and have established social dynamics to work together, and a vested interest in making the social dynamics succeed. Rarely are students forced to work with others they didn't choose.
However, as a parent, I couldn't find a Montessori school that reminded me of my excellent childhood experiences. Why is that?
In the US, there is such a focus on curriculum that this can undermine much of the fundamentals of Montessori. Parents and teachers have a curriculum agenda, and they attempt to force this learning on the child, rather than use the curriculum to inspire a desire to learn more.
I do think Montessori could be the education solution for every child. It's just sad that we treat children as a product and education as a manufacturing system.
Montessori developed her teaching methods working with children in a psychiatric hospital. I am sure that some of them were autistic.
I got Dxed with Tourette's when I was 17.... I don't think it's Tourette's anymore, depite 20 years of tics. This is because since I learned I'm on the spectrum, Ive not been hiding my urge to move around and fidget (stimming), and I pretty much no longer tic.
When I think back... the tics showed up in HS.
Thank you for this video! ❤
You are welcome! Thank you for your kind comment 🧡
I hated group work, because I always ended up doing the work of people who could not be bothered. As for my hiding places in HS was either the band room practicing my trumpet, or the library. Lucky it was open for me.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the BULLYING. That was by FAR the worst part of school for me. It was like a war zone. I didn't even get a chance to think about mundane stuff like quiet spaces or literally anything you mentioned in this video, cause I was always in survival mode from the bullies.
My hiding in the toilets was to avoid bullies - a whole video on this topic will be made soon. 🧡
We're not the only ones who are thinking this way. I don't know if you ever watch The Stoa (Peter Limberg's online philosophy group) but I remember Evan McMullin talking about the damaged he figured that we were incurring in terms of disruption of proper adult development by needing to raise our hands to use the restroom and other things. I think we're also a long ways from the economy and the kind of work force needs that the Prussian model was meant to address - ie. tons of factory workers.
For me, I didn't get all of the speech therapy and no needed OT (occupational therapy) along with needed transition services that was supposed to start when I turned 14 since I had an IEP from 6th grade until I graduated high school in 2005. Voc Rehab didn't come to help me out until I graduated high school in 2005. Then during the summer in 2005 I had to go to Pennsylvania for my grandfather's (my dad's dad) funeral since he passed away in 2004 or earlier in 2005.
Im in school rn and this video resonates with me a lot
Oh man, so much of this resonates - and I'm not diagnosed (but seriously wondering...). If I hadn't been able to become a science lab assistant (with access to the science rooms during break time with a few other "misfits", I don't honestly know how I would have survived college (high school to you American folks :) ). The playground was just a brutal place for anyone outside the generally regarded definition of normality.
Cool, I'm subscribed to him on youtube but didn't realize he wrote a book
A lot of these accommodations are good for neurotypical kids too. It just make sense to all apply all the no cost measures. I've talk to a lot of people about those things. Like my wife who is NT, she say she would have had better school experience with less group work, better lighting and quiet spaces too. Not having them wasn't a big deal but it would still be nice. For me they are much bigger deal. So if these things are good for all people and more so for people with autism then why aren't we doing these things? If better lights is good for everyone then just do it. Quiet spaces is good for everyone, have them. It's just common sense.
100% agree. I suspect it’s a cultural thing; “kids have to go out for break times” - sure but….
😊 the schools are still not set up for NDs, I have hope that it is slightly better than it was when I was at school and I really hope they continue to change their ways in favour of ND pupils and teachers. Love this book was an excellent read.....listen. 😊
Totally. If we're going to educate both NT's and ND's together, we need to introduce the freely available accommodations across the board from the video as a starting point. Things can be better, and schools don't need to be configured so hostile to ND pupils AND their ND teaching staff. Thanks, Helen 🧡
Yeah, as a (former) teacher myself, I can definitely agree! I am diagnosed ADHD and had to pay out of pocket to get diagnosed because the next appointment at the facility was 9 months out! The classroom unfortunately packs students in the classroom like a tuna can and doesn't do much to help to adapt to different styles. Even worse are the "inclusion" classrooms where all the "problem" children are put together and the teachers unfortunately hate teaching these classes. I loved teaching inclusions classrooms because each of these kids were unique gems that were lovely but unfortunately neglected. A little watering and kindness helped them :)
My sensory issues are so overwhelming that I can't go to the store anymore. I have a background in Psychology (at the Master's level) and I have begun to suspect that I may be on the spectrum as well. Doing my neuropsych testing this week! I have been reading the DSM-5 and felt that I meet many of the criteria, but may need a clinician to provide additional input. I like your takes on this channel!
One additional thing to consider is that schools in high-poverty neighborhoods are much worse. The diathesis-stress model, a model I greatly appreciate, theorizes that mental health disorders can be activated by major stressors. I suspect that there is a huge increase in incidences of psychological disorders in high-poverty neighborhoods and children who have encountered many adverse childhood experiences (ACEs). As a teacher, we have to re-evaluate the instructional models that we are using with children who are neurodivergent. Most teachers take a special education class (often called exceptional learners) where most of the content is dry and academic. A better approach would be to educate teachers on various disabilities and give them concrete strategies that they can apply in the classroom to support a variety of learners. We have to encourage our kids to interact as best as they can with the world! A good education will empower children to succeed by giving them a good IEP committee, immersive psychological services (counselors + school psychologists), and flexible teaching styles that promote their well-being. Unfortunately the best we have now are aides, special education instructors (who do pull outs mainly), and ABA specialists (which, unfortunately, traumatizes many children with ASD due to many of the misperceptions that individuals apart from their training).
I think many of us would agree that if we had a better teaching model, we would have achieved so much more as children! Many of us would have been top performers at school, successful researchers, accomplished employees, and more! School CAN empower children to find their full potential, but not by subjecting neurodivergent children to neurotypical standards.
I struggled so much with school! New seating plans every term caused me so much stress, especially not knowing who I was going to sit next to. The stress of answering questions when you dont know when they're going to ask you. One of my classes used a wheel with all our names on, and my god, did it fill me with so much dread. And group work was a pain! And the bathrooms were vile! I dont think I used the school bathrooms the entire time i was there. It was all too much and people were just so horrible to one another!
I stopped attending school this year because i couldn't cope with it anymore. This wasnt ideal as im in yr11 right now, but luckily the school is letting me sit my science, english and math gcse at home. I feel so horrible about it though because my mum has received a fine for me not attending school even though I am to be done with my gcses in two weeks. School is just such a horrible, inherently stresful environment.
Now that ive stopped attending and am doing gcses at home I feel alot more comfortable, and happier. Ive made a college application for post 16 education and am hoping the college system is better than school, because i do want to do my a levels. If it does end up being a bit rubbish then at least its only for two years!
Thank you for all this content! And sorry for the angry rant, but im just very frustrated that ive put 10 years of my life working towards gcses only for it to all collapse in the last year! This video and comment section has comforted me a bit, to know its not all my faut, the school system definitely need to change somehow, i hope it can be better for future generations 😢
I hated group work or pair work because usually no one wanted to work with me. But I was in advanced classes so they didn't expect me to do all the work.
HI Mike, hi Sabre, hi beautiful, beautiful seal 🦭 👋 You 3 have made my day after an intense therapy session. So regulating to see such openly friendly faces. Great video too!
Those school corridors. The noise!!! The echoing surfaces. So overwhelming. Mike, you are not alone in getting lost. I still have nightmares of not knowing what I am meant to be in, or where the classroom is! I was lucky to be born before the time group assignments were a thing. I can count on one hand how many I had to do in high school and university combined. When we had them, they weren't counting towards any grades, just end of year fun English tasks to do in lesson time, like video production, newspaper production etc...
I had the great fortune of being able to spend many break times in the music room /practice studios with other music nerds. As long as we were practising or jamming, we were welcome to stay. My daughter is lucky to spend her break times with the school chickens. She is an official school "Environmental Ambassador" and I am super proud of her. The chickens are a highlight of her day and no matter what a reason that she wants to go to school. Yay chicken!!! 🐔❤
Yay chickens! 🐓 🧡
@@Autistic_AF ✨️🐣🐤🐥🐓✨️💛
@@Autistic_AF did you take the video of that beautiful seal? It made me so happy! 🦭🤍
Yes :)
I home educate my kids but I recently felt my youngest could do with school. Specifically to make more friends and have less distractions but no local school will take him. I'm fighting for the local authority to place him. I've been turned down by three local schools, it's his disability putting them off as they can't get funding. It's illegal but academies seem to get around the rules. I've tried to get an EHC but as we homeschool it's nigh on impossible.
My middle boy did however get an EHC but only as he was going through a learning disability diagnosis. We had a lot of help and reports regarding his exact needs. It still took two years to find him a school, he starts in September. I'm just hoping they can help him learn to read but I'm not sure. It also wasn't the school of our choosing and there isn't really a suitable school near us as we are in a provisions desert.
And my eldest boy really needs help and support but he has pda, I'm certain of it but it's not recognized in our county. He's pretty much been permanently excluded for the last 6 years, so i do what I can. He really wants to do construction at college but I don't think he'll manage the environment and there are no local colleges. The nearest is 40 miles away and the journey is just too long.
Yes school when I was kid and a teen in the 80s and 90s was bad but it's far worse today. My kids aren't going to get an education because of autism and adhd. I have an education even though it was hard and unfair. I wasn't diagnosed until my late thirties but school still tried to accommodate me, kind of, my education was good, the curriculum fairer. I'm so tired of how everything is, we are going backwards and it's ruining kids lives.
I LOVE your content. You have such a great channel and I super love all the things you do to keep people engaged and feel positive about themselves. I plan to be in the live stream Saturday, But I want to make sure that the US time is 2pm EST (New York) It says EDT which I haven't heard of. Maybe because I am not familiar with all the worldwide time zoning terms.
Typo! Darn auto-cucumber! Thank you, Katja! Awh, that's really nice of you - you're the kindest!🧡
EST = Eastern standard time (November to March in the U.S.)
EDT = Eastern daylight time (Daylight savings time from March to November in the U.S.)
Hope this helps.
I got it right by accident!
My school doesn't have the break for everyone at the same time and it also causes problems because it's hard to tell which students have a break and which ones are playing truant. It encourages students who struggle in class to skip lessons altogether and hang out with their friends in the corridors instead. I don't think there's a way for a large school to really adapt to everyone.
I did a post on Facebook recently about the hell I face just trying to order a cup of tea and a scone at Starbucks. Starbucks is autistic sensory hell. It's so loud and chaotic I have to shout my order, and have always had diffivculty understanding the myriad questions hurreld at me during the process. Elementary school was similar in the 70s. Hell. Middle school and high school too. It was so bad in 10th grade that I finally shut down and dropped out at age 15.
I was autistic and didn't know it.
It was hell alright.
I was so very lucky, that I joined our Infirmary Student team. We had the infirmary room all to ourselves, and only occasionally would we have to help someone, but other than that - That small, secluded room without a window and just a dim light was my safe haven.
Other than that, I remember having so many behaviours that can be explained by autism now. Like staying in class for as long as possible, chatting with the teacher, not wanting to go outside and such. I usually went somewhere secluded, where it was quiet - I didn't like turning on the lights, especially when they were flickering. I also never ate during school (Cafeteria was full of people, where you had to elbow your way to get something)
I remember running out of class furiously crying, and not being able to calm down. Teachers usually just made it worse by threatening me.
Yea, school sucked in a lot of ways, but I had my ways to survive somehow. Until I wasn't able to anymore.
I just hope that it'll get better for younger folks
In group projects, I was often the one to do everything while everyone else slacked, one time, I even tried giving each person two slides on a project, gave myself 3. Still ended up doing everything, and then people started moving stuff on the slides so it'd show that they did it. I told the table and started getting bullied by that group (excluded, labeled a snitch, etc.).
Interesting book!! Love when people mention books they read lol regarding autism
School? Dystopian nightmare
Normal school with such hell for me that I immediately got sent to Correctional school for flipping a table over it's just too loud and with my misophonia and autism yeah but Correctional school was so much better for me and accommodated my autism related sensory issues.
Thanks Mike. Love your channel 😁
Awh, thank you Rebecca! 🧡
The seal ❤❤❤
So lovely and chonky!
9:20 haha, I hated group work for that same reason (I didn't hate all group activities, but I hated adding group work on something that didn't have anything to do with it).
In my last year of middle school and the rest of high school if we did group work iNADAMANTLY REFUSED TO THE TEACHERS FACE and when I gave the resons (eg: other kids being arogent dicks who think they know better than me despite making me do all the work 98% of the time them) they agreed to let me work by myself but I think it helped I was their favorite student most of the time?
And te groups I normally got stuck with after that failed projects 70% of the time after that
Diagnosed as an adult, school felt like prison.
Even as an adult in uni, people are befriending me to help with there science. Now that all the work is done, I try and message and they're suddenly too busy to be friends. Nothing changes.
i used to have the worst teacher ever in grade 1 and 2. if i forgot to do something or did something wrong she would "raise her voice" at me, otherwise known as scream at me. if a question said "whats one apple plus four apples?" and i wrote 5, she would go "five what? bananas? hula-hoops?" and i hated her with every fiber of my being and i was seven. seven year olds in my opinion should not hate anyone with every fiber of their being.
I think my biggest takeaway from high-school (but really all the whole system of schooling) as an Autistic person is the curriculum. I found that I wouldn't hold on to information from previous semesters and even grades because my brain wouldn't learn and process the information fast enough to understand the concepts that came after. It's part of why math in particular was so difficult for me since It relies heavily on having a good grasp and memory of base concepts. Thus I imagine many of us just get left behind or are assumed stupid because we aren't keeping up with everyone else's learning level. Not to mention that life skills you bring into the adult world aren't something the academics teach anymore depending on where you are. So as an adult I feel like I'm less capable when really my brain just needs more time to process, practice and learn these things
School fails everyone! - 2024
That *plop* at 6:36 😌
That was my hands! 🙌 🧡
@@Autistic_AF so perfect 👌
Looks fascinating but I couldn't find it on Kindle
I learned early on that volunteering for a class period as a student worker in the main office gives you perks. Eventually, in high school, I was working in the attendance office and got away with skipping most of my classes. I would go snowboarding instead. Then I would go home and read all of my textbooks and finish all of my homework in advance. I had better grades studying on my own at home than when I was learning in class.
Great work!
Thanks, Claire! 🧡
Good video and good tumbnail.
Thank you ☺️
So I believe I’m both autistic and ADHD, and I hated group work. In Secondary school, I almost failed science cuz I was being socially outcast in my first year of GCSEs. When I wasn’t being outcast, I was too distracted and wouldn’t make the proper notes. So it just didn’t work for me.
Coordination and motor skills have always been a problem for me. I can run to/fro across the field but I cannot catch a ball / puk. I discovered that hockey is terrifying (I just couldn’t predict where the puk or fellow teammates would go). I couldn’t do tennis or badminton (tho teachers did try pretty persistently).
I found that I could learn well in a classroom but once I got home, it was a nightmare. Nothing got in and the whole studying experience just depleted all my energy, requiring a nap.
“You’re clearly very smart, you just need to apply yourself”, “You don’t struggle at school so you’re just being lazy”, “don’t get out that room til you’ve you’re done studying”….
I have an english teacher who knows im autistic and she's so nice, she says i dont have to work in groups or lets me pair up with a friend instead, and she also doesnt shout because she knows im sensitive to sound, I wish more teachers were like that :(
You mention you had difficulty distinguishing the teacher's voice from the background hubbub. I too, tough my hearing was tested and found to be fine. You also mention (in another video) you started talking at 4 yo. I too, though Mum tells me it was about 3.25yo. Perhaps there is some connection? My wife complains that I am tone deaf and I find spoken foreign languages difficult to follow.
For group work in school, I still do the same today. I'll only try to get that leadership position if I feel VERY confident on the topic. Any doubt and I welcome the shadows 😂
All of the mentioned things are annoying, yes, but most can't realistically be changed and we have to just learn to, well, deal with it. But the one thing where school fails us the hardest and honestly shouldn't: bullying. It's one of the dumbest concepts in human history that apparently it is okay to harrass someone for being different from the others and/or some teachers believing that if there is a way to address this problem at all is to remove the victim instead of the (many) offenders.
Group work no! Small group discussions when it an elected class that is not received so most are there because they are interested in the subject of the class are focused on the topic of the class and have a understanding of what the subject are about. A three people group discussion on a stimulating topic that all the participants are equally interested in and want to reflect on. For me it's a communication for that works... when these qualifiers are met when I reflect more it might have been more a quiet reflection time to digest the lecture topic than an actual discussion with a did you understand this? How about that would that work in this situation? And the subject was based on pseudoscience that I connected with because it reinforced my own preference for focusing on one thing in one way at a time. How my autistic mind prefers information so I can focus on one aspect at a time and take it in pieces rather than a multitude of input in different ways. I can't filter but I can focus and ignore it takes energy but I can train myself to hear a specific voice the trouble starts when I need to hear that voice and focus on another or learn a new voice... better with quiet and one voice at a time.
There is a difference between able to survive or able with effort managed and actually have a good environment. I can force myself to walk with a blister and ignore the pain. I can somewhat function with toothache. It doesn't make it pleasant nor is it close to fully functional productivity. It's similar to environmental noise, strong lights. I can survive but it not healthy and it will lead to worse problems in the future if it goes on for too long. A small blister heals faster than an infected bloody wound. The dentist have less to fix the earlier one take care of the tooth ache issues.
Equally more functional autistic environment will lead to less disruptive meltdowns and also a more functional autistic individual.
I thought I could filter, I'm just really good at ignoring my pain and needs a hard habit to unlearn
I wind up being the group leader for a lot of projects. Yet I am not good with completing the work to get a good grade. So I wind up getting yelled at by my lazy teammates. We usually pass. Although it’s still very uncomfortable and embarrassing. I was especially bad with live presentations.
I thought I recently heard one in 10.
:( you have this on Audible? Why doesn’t it show up when I type it in Audible here in the US? I want to read this book so badly!
If you happen to have Spotify Premium, it's on there too - and you get 15 hours a month included. That's sufficient for the whole book (7 hours total). 🧡
I got diagnosed with autism at age 12, but I’m starting to suspect I was misdiagnosed. When I hear all the symptoms that most autistic people have, they’re not relatable to me at all. I’m not sensitive to sound, smell or touch, I’m usually to one to take the lead in group projects and I don’t need a quiet space. It’s true that I don’t eat lunch at school, but that has a different reason: the things I usually eat for lunch don’t fit in a lunch box and the foods that I can take to school are all foods I don’t like. I don’t struggle at school or in class at all. Only when a teacher reprimands me for whatever reason, I get a little emotional. Like one time I had to bring my laptop to school, but I forgot to charge it. The teacher then reprimanded me for not charging my laptop and I started crying. But other than that, school’s fine for me
I don't really have many sensory issues, but the feeling of your hands after they were in water for a long time is the bane of my existence
Thank you, Mike, Sabre 😺🖤 and Seal 🦭!
Thank you for being here, and for your support! 🧡
oh my god I'm autistic and i'm going to high school next year and now i'm fucking terrified
Try not to be - schools are at their best ever right now. Sure, there is a long way to go, but you’ll make it. 🧡
Thanks for this video. I don't have much memories of school from the autistic point of view. Maybe it's a good thing.
I would like to say that the background music is disturbing to me, I stopped the video to identify if it was in it or from my neighbourhood... ^^'
I’m sorry but… there were leaders in group projects?? Completely missed that
Non-diagnoised audhd and i love school.....i didnt have enough resosojs to be called weird
How do I attend? Do I need to be a patreon supporter?
I’ll be live on RUclips - no need to be a member of my Patreon. Tea and Tails and its book giveaways are open to everyone.
idk how me and my older brother (who has a more severe autism, but still high functioning) are getting straight as and hes getting into a good university lmao
Good video, though the background music is very distracting and makes it extremely difficult for me to focus on what you are saying. Please have some sympathy for folks with audio processing issues and lose the background music. Thanks.