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I think the variable geometry nacelles were to prevent the damage to subspace, which was shown in TNG and caused Starfleet to limit speeds to Warp 5 unless it was an emergency. Since the Intrepid class was designed for sustained high warp flight, it needed to prevent damage to subspace.
@@AlexRomeli I figure the moving nacelles was a stopgap until they figured out how to not need to do that. (ie, the Intrepid, being all cutting edge, was probably *designed* when everyone was bein like 'I can't drive Warp 5!' )
variable geometry warp is still warp - though most likely just more efficient. like high mpg internal combustion engines - you get farther using less fuel, but you're still spitting out the same by-products
What few people seem to understand about warp damaging subspace is that it only causes damage on routes that are repeatedly traveled upon. Sort of like wearing down the path if you would like to call it that. In the episode, it was exactly that. In the rest of the galaxy though, it wouldn't be an issue, primarily because of the vastness of space and the more travel routes available because of it.
I always thought it was weird that the woman who got her job simply because she was doing Berman, turned out to be one of the best characters on the show.
She's a pretty good actress. For someone that was hired for her looks and who she was dating, that's impressive. The first fleshed out liberated borg character was bound to be interesting, but she really sold it well.
My favorite tidbits are: It was the first starship equipped with a new type of Industrial replicators and allowed for the replication of almost all parts and things needed, as well as the processing of raw ore. Also bays..it has a ton of cargo bays and empty spaces that can be repurposed. Hydroponics was a cargo bay originally on Voyager. They have a Shuttle repair/building bay. This is seen when they are building the Delta Flyer, it has a bay door in the floor (or the ceiling, I don't remember which) to allow shuttles in and out of the main Shuttle bay. There is one of the new replicators in there as well. Its how Voyager always had more shuttles, they basically just built them and could feed raw ore to the replicators and get parts out.
(Also why I got a headcanon for why they never used the 'Aeroshuttle,' they had to cannibalize something real important from that early on in their ordeal. )
@OllamhDrab in a script in early season one they were going to mention that there's no areoshuttle there, it's just a cover plate as they left spacedock before it was installed. It was cut for pacing. But the original idea was for a much more flushed out ore processing and construction area being built in the void space, however due to budget they scrapped the idea because they couldn't afford the set.
I always figured such industrial replicators had been fairly common in large deep space exploration vessels, but maybe was new for “closer to home” smaller ships like the Interepid. And of course now the Vehicle Replicator is canon even in the Defiant-size Protostar class!
@kitfaaace yeah the intrepid class was the first with the ability to process raw ore all in one replicator. The intrepid class was designed to be able to operate at the edge of federation space for years at a time without needing to return to the core of federation space. Its also equipped with a secondary warp 5 core (you can see it on the schematics both in show and in the manual) so if they lose the main warp core they can install the warp 5 core and limp home.
@@jacara1981 from the TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals I was under the impression that was standard for all Industrial Replicators, either funnelling the rest of the ore into the matter tanks or rematerialising them side by side with the refined metal or even the finished product. The industrial replicators were specifically called out as having a bunch of extra tanks for metals and minerals. whereas food replicators only had carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and silicon tanks. But I’ve not read the unreleased Voyager Tech Manual, the only download I found was corrupted. So if it’s mentioned in there, fair enough. (Though I did read the internal series bibles I could find.) I’ve seen the extra warp core in the MSD, though some of the staff (both design and writers) in later production years suggested it was absent or only partially-installed in specifically Voyager just as with the Aeroshuttle. That’s kinda neither here nor there, unless the rubber ducky in the D’s main shuttlebay is also canon ;)
According to the unpublished Voyager Season 1 edition of the Star Trek: Voyager Technical Manual by Rick Sternbach and Mike Okuda, it was suggested that because of the variable geometry pylons, warp fields may no longer have a negative impact on habitable worlds as established in the TNG episode "Force of Nature" as it was shown that repeated high warp factors could damage subspace, and too much would irreparably damage it by forming a subspace riff and making warp travel nearby it impossible.
suggested. but like a lot of things, the negative subspace effects of warp is an inconvenient fact that became glossed over and forgotten, or they now use warp as a measure of speed, regardless of what alternative propulsion technology they use
As also mentioned in Force Of Nature, the alien scientist who set off the explosion that created a new subspace rift used a warp explosion that Data said was equivalent to ONE MILLION TIMES the normal output of a warp reactor. That's apparently what it took to create that rift, so the scientist in question was not some thoughtful researcher who was right about her concerns. She was an absolutely insane eco-terrorist. This episode was obviously meant to be an allegory to environmental damage from our use of petroleum fuels, but instead it really came across to me as a cautionary tale of not letting certain people earn a degree as a scientist without proving that they meet certain sanity and ethics standards, or have access to dangerous technologies.
@@mekkler that’s the scale Enterprise used too, and matched their quoted times to and from Pluto… but then they soonafter could travel a couple light years in a couple days at warp 3? Which “should” be 27x the speed of light, as in a light year still taking almost two weeks. So then I took the cube root of 500 (going a bit over a light year in a day, 500c is a decent estimate over 365c) and that “should” be warp 8 (well, 7.9). But apparently it’s warp 3… it’s like they often took the TNG distances and times but just tacked on a lower warp factor instead of picking smaller distances or just writing longer time skips. But they got the distance and time scales basically right in other episodes such as the warp 2 test getting from Earth to the gas giants in a few hours. So they clearly could do it when they cared. Of course, no Trek series has ever consistently adhered to the cube formula (or TNG’s revision), not even TOS. So it’s not exactly new. There’s other supposed justifications attempting to square that circle, which I don’t like as much, such as “density” of space or nearby gravitational wells slowing things down (or speeding them up)… but then warp factor becomes meaningless as a measurement of speed! While also being needlessly complicated if it’s just a measure of engine exertion (so why not just give a percentage like they do with impulse?)
@@kaitlyn__L And for instance, Warp 9.975 is somewhere between 5127 and 5552 x the speed of light, supposedly (or up to 15.2 light years a day) But other times, is hinted, to be a lot faster. And warp 8 should be 1024 times lightspeed (2.8 light years a day) but is also, I think, variable.
Just want to give kudos for the use of contrasting colored lighting when doing your personal appearance on screen. I was immediately taken back to the late 60's original series, I never realized how effective and fun it was and even though it isn't expensive, it packs a lot of fun visual impact and contrast. Truly inspired, I expect a Romulan commander to come in from the side area at any moment.
congrats on the sponsor - the connection between the Doctor and the bio-something something packs (sorry) is a really cool explanation for his abilities
But why did Voyager have tricobalt devices!? “The Voyager Conspiracy” called out that they’re a strange weapon for Voyager to have and they can damage subspace… so unusual and illegal!? Was Janeway planning on nuking some Maquis planets after her mission to the Badlands!? Voyager’s moving warp nacelles preventing subspace damage: that’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
One thing I thought you’d mention is that voyager is also capable of landing on a planet. So having a straight wing design could help it in atmospheric maneuvering. It’s “wings” probably don’t have do be physically aerodynamic even, I’m sure force field geometry could easily provide lift.
@@Eyesorecrymore they did it at least three times in the series. Yeah I was surprised he didn't mention it as it's the only ship (ignoring the reboot films) that is shown to be capable of landing and taking off from a planetary surface and cruising through the atmosphere when previous ships always risked burning up in planetary atmospheres.
Awesome. Voyager isn't one of my favorite Trek shows, but this was super informative. I've got a real appreciation of all the effort the art and science departments put in on the show. Also, I'm digging the real science comparison videos you do. It adds a lot!
Year of Hell was ok. but TNG had Tapestry, DS9 had In The Pale Moonlight. maybe its because i was older when i watched Voyageur, but it didnt have the magic of TNG or DS9.
@@beepboop204 I never got behind Voyager. It was too campy for my taste. It did address some real issues and has a loyal fanbase though. Not to mention The Doctor is legit awesome. I appreciate it, but overall, it's just not my thing.
oak ridge played a huge role in the manhatten project if you didnt already know.. leslie groves picked it for the uranium enrichment facility and a pilot plutonium plant
Very impressed, I thought you just had pylon geometry but then ya brought out warp field theroy / exotic particles, oh man I am full. Great content as always!
Ah, the class of ship I'd generally most want to serve on. You got full-service starship and enough comforts and specs to be pretty good for almost anything, and about the right size ship community on there, ...like you *can* know everyone aboard but aren't obligated to if you don't get along with someone. :) Also you can land the thing if that ever makes sense for an expedition. :) (Also it seems more Intrepid content would go over big, ...Voyager may not have been everyone else's favorite show, but it seems many of us love that class of *ship.* :) )
As always, you do an amazing job explaining elements of sci-fi with some real-world analogies. This may have been a UK thing but I remember about 7 years ago people seriously looking into people using people home computers to solve large scale dynamic problems. People would leave their computers on during the day when at work and allow their processing power to be utilised to solve small segments of the problem before collating all the data on a larger system.
I do appreciate the Intrepid's sleekness and agility, it does what it is designed for extremely well, but I just adore the sheer presence and gravitas of ginormous ships like the Galaxy class. The Galaxy may not be a fast agile ship required in war but they made for spectacularly opulent city ships, sturdy C&C ships, and flying bastions that projected all the best parts of the Federation out into deep space on long term missions. I would have rigged the Galaxy class far more for combat, more phaser strips, gimbal pulse phasers, a bunch of fighters/a docked support fleet, more torpedo launchers, and completely covered it in ablative armour. I would retain all the interior space and luxury for the sake of the crew and for the purposes of diplomatic missions, and use the acres of hangar space plus the many decks full of empty unused space for all those other upgrades as well as a secondary warp core to make my vision feasible.
We need a video on universe compression between series. In both Picard and SNW, it seems like any crappy shuttle/ship can get across the quadrent in 1.5 days. Everything is super close to everything time wise. Distance matters so much less in recent series when "we are distanced from humanity while we explore" was always generally a present backdrop previously.
How about describing the Voyager vessel from the last episode ... with all the shield and weapons upgrades ... that was the best version of the Intrepid line
I would definitely be down for a warp scale video! Also, my wife and I are currently watching Voyager, so this video was excellently timed lol. Thank you for all you do! God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
This has not been done because those two shows were shot on low definition video tape. Earlier shows like TOS were shot with film and later shows with high definition video. Converting DS9 and Voyager to high definition would be very difficult, if not impossible, due to the very high cost. The many cgi and FX shots also make conversion very complex and expensive.
I always thought Minuet was semi sentient because of the Binar's programming and not so much the Enterprise computer. They show her back to bland after the Binar's leave, and she's even less sentient seeming when they are passed out and she is giving Riker and Picard info on what the Binar's were doing. That made me kinda think she was being controlled by a Binar when they were still awake.
That's correct. The Binars filled to Enterprise's computer storage space with all of the data from their homeworld and used that software to create Minuet. The Enterprise was a giant external storage backup for the Binars until the solar flare E.M. pulse hit their planet and dissipated. Once the crisis was over, they downloaded the files back to the Binar's systems, which eliminated the Minuet program from the Enterprise computer database.
I personally subscribe to the theory that the Binar's adjustments to the Enterprise were what allowed Moriarty to become a sentient hologram, as well as several other instances of seeming sentience with the Enterprise D
As a SciFi nerd in the 1990's I remember when Voyager debuted. I wanted that ship so much in my collection so I could see ever aspect of it. Personally I see it as a hardened war ship and more realistic vessel for Star Fleet as a Galaxy class ship was so ridiculously big it almost made no sense. Where as Voyager I could totally see as a vessel for all things including war. Put some Defiant pulse phaser on her and wow. Boom watch out enemies. I personally dislike the show but loved the ship.
"...?maybe I should do a video on the Warp Scale." Yes, plz bc I need to know how fast "zephram Cochran" travels so that I can finally trigger First Contact with a perceivable Warp Signature
Wow that was really informative. What I wondered is how Voyager didnt run out of gel packs. In one of the early episodes they said they only had a handful of back ups. I love the explanation that the Doctor is able to become more than a standard EMH because of the gel pack tech. It really bothered me to think that all the EMHs could be sentient.
I kinda liked the idea that if an AI is left on long enough and allowed to gather data it was never intended to gather, that it could become sentient. I liked that The Doctor became sentient because he was never meant to be used the way he was.
Sentience is not Sapience. Sentience is the cognitive ability to process sensory stimulation. Hence terms like sentir in Latin languages, means "to feel." Sapience refers to the ability to engage in complex thought. Just as in sapientia (sapiencia in my language), applies to "wisdom."
@@ThommyofThenn It's what happens when in-house vernacular, specific to an industry, is shared more casually among the greater diaspora. Imagine how many computer oriented terms got misused as the technology gained more traction. Within an industry, terms will have very specific meanings, however, words don't exist in a pocket dimension, so they get spread around. Unfortunately, most people - not in those industries - will exercise a more generalized version of these terms, ultimately leading to them being used incorrectly. Ultimately it's mainly harmless, and I am being a prude about it. However, I grew up with literature as a foundation to my education, so learning the etymology of terms was enforced by my professors.
Can you cover the miraculous industrial replicator that could rebuild whole shuttles in apparent days. How many did they lose over the 7 series? Dozens.
@Da Duza Dude The connection with "Force of Nature" was tbh not really stated on screen, more of a theory that the writers came up with. But as with a lot of things, making that a priority kinda fell by the wayside.
I think that’s only how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode you refer to, “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
The nacelles are field emitters. Just like a magnet is a field emitter. When you change the orientation of the emitters you are changing the flux (and other things) between them.
@@subraxas If you check memory alpha for that episode, in the continuity section it mentions that this theory was put fourth by rick sternbach and okuda in an unpublished book. Of course no hard evidence, but I'd hardly call it beta canon.
That’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
one of the things ST Voyager suffered for was having so many "insert future plot development here" technical innovations that never ended up being relevant to anything because the writers were too stupid to remember their own plans. it was like a ship made entirely of Chekov guns that never fired. god that show was terrible.
That’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
I've sometimes amused myself imagining that for some reason Q would owe me one or a few wishes and I was hesitating between asking for Voyager or the Defiant. But choosing the last episode's version of Voyager once upgraded with future Janeway's shuttle technology would be much better, larger and more comfortable than the Defiant, even if it doesn't have the cloaking technology.
I think Voyager would have been better off with its “variable geometry nacelles” sticking with the open panels of the earlier concept sketches rather than the moving nacelle pylons we ended up with. Because while there’s an in-universe explanation for why the nacelles need to be raised for warp speed (to give them clear line of sight with each other, to be safer for the subspace environment even at speeds above warp 5, etc.), there is no satisfactory explanation for why they have to be lowered at sublight speeds. Seriously, why does the ship need the nacelles down at all? Why not leave them up all the time (at warp, at impulse, in orbit, docked at a station, landed on a planet, etc.)? The opening panels leaned into better justifications for all of that. Why do they need to open at warp? Because that’s how these new nacelles go faster, or more efficiently, or more environmentally friendly, or some combination of those factors. So why not just leave them open all the time? Because that’s delicate and vulnerable machinery in those nacelles that shouldn’t be exposed to harmful environments or enemy weapons fire when it isn’t necessary. Alas for what could have been.
So... I knew about the Bussard collectors on warp nacelles, and that they needed have have visibility from the front. I also knew that ships needed to have at least 2 nacelles, and there needed to be clear line of sight between them. I *didn't* know the given in-universe reason for that clearance requirement though, so thanks for that part of my education with this video! Much appreciated.
Good points touched on with the Bioneural Gel Packs. The most fascinating part of the AI revolution is that it implies the very phenomenon of intelligence is just a very small pattern in the brain. There is just so much else going on in there alongside it in our own and it's also that much harder to look at animals the same way. What we hold so dear as humans really isn't all that special. It makes me wonder what really is in that big picture, or more so, what do we all (thing with brains) share that really is? Where does consciousness really start and stop? How many ways could it look? Could we tell if we saw it?
To me the rule of the universe that there had to be clear space between the nacelles was news to me, but I haven't gone into all rules of the Star Trek universe. That said - even the cartoons by Chuck Jones had certain rules to follow for the story to work. Wiley E. Coyote should always fail to catch the Roadrunner and his contraptions should always be flawed in some way.
It’s dominion war upgrade it got ablative hull armour updated phaser arays and quantum torpedos. it’s a science ship, but really I think it’s a heavy cruiser
It was my understanding that the variable warp nacelles were a 1st attempt direct solution to the revelation that “brute forcing” warp travel, as had been done for centuries, was unsustainable after it was discovered that sustained warp travel was damaging subspace.
Awesome review as always! just a couple of notes: The intrepid class doesnt have quantum torpedoes, nor the launchers required for them, and what you call torpedoes tubes are the actual launcher mechanism for photon torpedoes.
11:27 You might be missing something. Do you remember when voyager's crew was discussing subspace tears and its relationship to the warp drive? I believe they had to change the position of the nacelles in order to change the amount of damage they were causing in subspace, or risk never been able to use warp drive through that particular galaxy.
That explanation has never to my knowledge been confirmed in canon. It's a popular fan theory, and it might have deserved a mention in the video but it's not mentioned in any episodes (again, to my knowledge)
@BlackHoleForge Yeah that's definitely the episode that introduced the concept of the subspace rift, but on screen it's never been connected to variable geometry pylons.
The second most pwerful supercomputer is located in Texas, my home state. It is called the "Dense Voyager Deep Space Mine". See I can make this stuff up.
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but what about year zero?
I think the variable geometry nacelles were to prevent the damage to subspace, which was shown in TNG and caused Starfleet to limit speeds to Warp 5 unless it was an emergency. Since the Intrepid class was designed for sustained high warp flight, it needed to prevent damage to subspace.
me stoned so me hung up on "variable geometry nacelles" heuyhehehe
I'm pretty sure that might have been mentioned, if not on screen, in some near-to-canon source.
@@AlexRomeli I figure the moving nacelles was a stopgap until they figured out how to not need to do that. (ie, the Intrepid, being all cutting edge, was probably *designed* when everyone was bein like 'I can't drive Warp 5!' )
variable geometry warp is still warp - though most likely just more efficient. like high mpg internal combustion engines - you get farther using less fuel, but you're still spitting out the same by-products
What few people seem to understand about warp damaging subspace is that it only causes damage on routes that are repeatedly traveled upon. Sort of like wearing down the path if you would like to call it that. In the episode, it was exactly that. In the rest of the galaxy though, it wouldn't be an issue, primarily because of the vastness of space and the more travel routes available because of it.
I used to live in Oak Harbor! Outstanding place. We still had TELEGRAPH poles and wires on our street...in 1976!
Janeway, Tuvok, Seven and The Doctor are some of my favorite Trek characters of all time.
I always thought it was weird that the woman who got her job simply because she was doing Berman, turned out to be one of the best characters on the show.
@@stevenscott2136 she was screwing Brannon Braga not Berman
She's a pretty good actress. For someone that was hired for her looks and who she was dating, that's impressive. The first fleshed out liberated borg character was bound to be interesting, but she really sold it well.
My favorite tidbits are:
It was the first starship equipped with a new type of Industrial replicators and allowed for the replication of almost all parts and things needed, as well as the processing of raw ore.
Also bays..it has a ton of cargo bays and empty spaces that can be repurposed. Hydroponics was a cargo bay originally on Voyager.
They have a Shuttle repair/building bay. This is seen when they are building the Delta Flyer, it has a bay door in the floor (or the ceiling, I don't remember which) to allow shuttles in and out of the main Shuttle bay. There is one of the new replicators in there as well. Its how Voyager always had more shuttles, they basically just built them and could feed raw ore to the replicators and get parts out.
(Also why I got a headcanon for why they never used the 'Aeroshuttle,' they had to cannibalize something real important from that early on in their ordeal. )
@OllamhDrab in a script in early season one they were going to mention that there's no areoshuttle there, it's just a cover plate as they left spacedock before it was installed. It was cut for pacing. But the original idea was for a much more flushed out ore processing and construction area being built in the void space, however due to budget they scrapped the idea because they couldn't afford the set.
I always figured such industrial replicators had been fairly common in large deep space exploration vessels, but maybe was new for “closer to home” smaller ships like the Interepid. And of course now the Vehicle Replicator is canon even in the Defiant-size Protostar class!
@kitfaaace yeah the intrepid class was the first with the ability to process raw ore all in one replicator. The intrepid class was designed to be able to operate at the edge of federation space for years at a time without needing to return to the core of federation space. Its also equipped with a secondary warp 5 core (you can see it on the schematics both in show and in the manual) so if they lose the main warp core they can install the warp 5 core and limp home.
@@jacara1981 from the TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals I was under the impression that was standard for all Industrial Replicators, either funnelling the rest of the ore into the matter tanks or rematerialising them side by side with the refined metal or even the finished product.
The industrial replicators were specifically called out as having a bunch of extra tanks for metals and minerals. whereas food replicators only had carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and silicon tanks.
But I’ve not read the unreleased Voyager Tech Manual, the only download I found was corrupted. So if it’s mentioned in there, fair enough. (Though I did read the internal series bibles I could find.)
I’ve seen the extra warp core in the MSD, though some of the staff (both design and writers) in later production years suggested it was absent or only partially-installed in specifically Voyager just as with the Aeroshuttle. That’s kinda neither here nor there, unless the rubber ducky in the D’s main shuttlebay is also canon ;)
According to the unpublished Voyager Season 1 edition of the Star Trek: Voyager Technical Manual by Rick Sternbach and Mike Okuda, it was suggested that because of the variable geometry pylons, warp fields may no longer have a negative impact on habitable worlds as established in the TNG episode "Force of Nature" as it was shown that repeated high warp factors could damage subspace, and too much would irreparably damage it by forming a subspace riff and making warp travel nearby it impossible.
Was just gonna comment about this. Yea it was stated that it drastically reduces the negative effects on subspace
suggested. but like a lot of things, the negative subspace effects of warp is an inconvenient fact that became glossed over and forgotten, or they now use warp as a measure of speed, regardless of what alternative propulsion technology they use
I can only strive to be as nerdy as this. You’re awesome
As also mentioned in Force Of Nature, the alien scientist who set off the explosion that created a new subspace rift used a warp explosion that Data said was equivalent to ONE MILLION TIMES the normal output of a warp reactor. That's apparently what it took to create that rift, so the scientist in question was not some thoughtful researcher who was right about her concerns. She was an absolutely insane eco-terrorist. This episode was obviously meant to be an allegory to environmental damage from our use of petroleum fuels, but instead it really came across to me as a cautionary tale of not letting certain people earn a degree as a scientist without proving that they meet certain sanity and ethics standards, or have access to dangerous technologies.
Yup. The TNG writers really wrote the DS9 and Voyager teams into a hole and they had no choice but to ignore it mostly.
"Hm, maybe I should do a video on the warp scale"
Do it (palpatine)
Yes, you have to make a warp speed scale. That would be great
the speed scale must go all the way
@@mekkler yep. I noticed some travel times quoted as warp 3 in Enterprise should really be warp 7 or warp 8…
@@mekkler that’s the scale Enterprise used too, and matched their quoted times to and from Pluto… but then they soonafter could travel a couple light years in a couple days at warp 3? Which “should” be 27x the speed of light, as in a light year still taking almost two weeks.
So then I took the cube root of 500 (going a bit over a light year in a day, 500c is a decent estimate over 365c) and that “should” be warp 8 (well, 7.9). But apparently it’s warp 3… it’s like they often took the TNG distances and times but just tacked on a lower warp factor instead of picking smaller distances or just writing longer time skips.
But they got the distance and time scales basically right in other episodes such as the warp 2 test getting from Earth to the gas giants in a few hours. So they clearly could do it when they cared.
Of course, no Trek series has ever consistently adhered to the cube formula (or TNG’s revision), not even TOS. So it’s not exactly new.
There’s other supposed justifications attempting to square that circle, which I don’t like as much, such as “density” of space or nearby gravitational wells slowing things down (or speeding them up)… but then warp factor becomes meaningless as a measurement of speed! While also being needlessly complicated if it’s just a measure of engine exertion (so why not just give a percentage like they do with impulse?)
@@kaitlyn__L And for instance, Warp 9.975 is somewhere between 5127 and 5552 x the speed of light, supposedly (or up to 15.2 light years a day)
But other times, is hinted, to be a lot faster.
And warp 8 should be 1024 times lightspeed (2.8 light years a day) but is also, I think, variable.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I’m guessing that’s TNG scale warp 8. Interesting that it’s exactly twice as fast as the TOS scale one (512c)
Just want to give kudos for the use of contrasting colored lighting when doing your personal appearance on screen. I was immediately taken back to the late 60's original series, I never realized how effective and fun it was and even though it isn't expensive, it packs a lot of fun visual impact and contrast. Truly inspired, I expect a Romulan commander to come in from the side area at any moment.
Dude. I’m a mechanic and your vid randomly popped up in my feed. I fucking love this video
Subscribed
congrats on the sponsor - the connection between the Doctor and the bio-something something packs (sorry) is a really cool explanation for his abilities
Intrepid class: I always thought the "saucer section" looked like a toilet lid.
will be waiting for part 2!
Dope video! Thanks, Tyler!
Thanks Odari!
But why did Voyager have tricobalt devices!? “The Voyager Conspiracy” called out that they’re a strange weapon for Voyager to have and they can damage subspace… so unusual and illegal!? Was Janeway planning on nuking some Maquis planets after her mission to the Badlands!?
Voyager’s moving warp nacelles preventing subspace damage: that’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
One thing I thought you’d mention is that voyager is also capable of landing on a planet. So having a straight wing design could help it in atmospheric maneuvering. It’s “wings” probably don’t have do be physically aerodynamic even, I’m sure force field geometry could easily provide lift.
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Granted I can only think of one episode where they actually land.
@@Eyesorecrymore they did it at least three times in the series. Yeah I was surprised he didn't mention it as it's the only ship (ignoring the reboot films) that is shown to be capable of landing and taking off from a planetary surface and cruising through the atmosphere when previous ships always risked burning up in planetary atmospheres.
A video on warp speed would be great!
Voyager being my favorite Trek, I'm always happy to see it get a focused breakdown.
The Voyager has always been the ship I found the most physically attractive out of all of them.
Got a kink for starships do ya? No shame here.
@@kennyhudson9201 Aye, ever since I was a wee lad.
Such an ugly deflector dish
Voyagers dish looks best. I think the worst dish is the yellow Sovereign class deflector.
The sovereign class is my personal favorite
Tyler really testing our real-time megawatt to watt to kilowatt calculation abilities @ 7:50 🤯
Awesome. Voyager isn't one of my favorite Trek shows, but this was super informative. I've got a real appreciation of all the effort the art and science departments put in on the show. Also, I'm digging the real science comparison videos you do. It adds a lot!
Thanks a ton!
Year of Hell was ok. but TNG had Tapestry, DS9 had In The Pale Moonlight. maybe its because i was older when i watched Voyageur, but it didnt have the magic of TNG or DS9.
@@beepboop204 I never got behind Voyager. It was too campy for my taste. It did address some real issues and has a loyal fanbase though. Not to mention The Doctor is legit awesome. I appreciate it, but overall, it's just not my thing.
warp speed analyzed? *YES PLEASE*
There's coffee on the ship!!!
Hey there, OR.👋
Of course the first time I decide to check out your stuff you do Voyager.❤❤❤
You had me at Breakfast and BBQ at Galaxy Edge.... Mmmmmmmm pancakes and burgers.
The hidden genius of this channel! Keep up the high quality of content and analysis! (I wish you had 1M subs)
Thanks angstony! I DO TOO
@@OrangeRiversame Tyler… same… 😂
@@OrangeRiver is your favorite color Orange and your favorite body of water the River?
@Beep Boop Honestly I find myself more drawn to purple, and I prefer the ocean 😂
oak ridge played a huge role in the manhatten project if you didnt already know.. leslie groves picked it for the uranium enrichment facility and a pilot plutonium plant
Love this video! Voyager is one of my all time favs. Loved how you added the science to it. Thank you!
Sounds like we need a part 2 👀
Very impressed, I thought you just had pylon geometry but then ya brought out warp field theroy / exotic particles, oh man I am full. Great content as always!
Don't forget about the areo shuttle, such an awesome design and concept, sad they decided not to use it..
Great video like always! thank you
You very much should do a video on the warp scale!
Ah, the class of ship I'd generally most want to serve on. You got full-service starship and enough comforts and specs to be pretty good for almost anything, and about the right size ship community on there, ...like you *can* know everyone aboard but aren't obligated to if you don't get along with someone. :) Also you can land the thing if that ever makes sense for an expedition. :)
(Also it seems more Intrepid content would go over big, ...Voyager may not have been everyone else's favorite show, but it seems many of us love that class of *ship.* :) )
Tyler, why are you so adorable? It's not even OK.
Agreed 👍
Much love from Kentucky✊
As always, you do an amazing job explaining elements of sci-fi with some real-world analogies. This may have been a UK thing but I remember about 7 years ago people seriously looking into people using people home computers to solve large scale dynamic problems. People would leave their computers on during the day when at work and allow their processing power to be utilised to solve small segments of the problem before collating all the data on a larger system.
What a waste of energy
There was a SETI project like that -- using people's computers to do signal analysis. I think it was called "SETI at home", or something similar.
nice one. i love anything Voyager.
Yes please make a video about warp speed and why nobody is working on it ❤❤❤
Interesting and well done video! Thanks for this!
Thank you!
Video on the warp scale, yes please!
Thank you for not bringing up “Blue Alert”! I love the Intrepid class but landing a warp reactor on a planet has got to be the worst idea ever idea’d
That's a very specific sponsor. Are you located near that Galaxy's Edge event?
Nope, but one of my Discord mods is haha
I love the idea of ftl aerodynamics. Always fun to design why certain shapes work in your stories warp or hyperspace
Road to 100k! Going to my first star trek convention in the UK in august woop.
I think one most impressive features of this class is it's seemingly infinite amount of Torpedos. 😂
The Intrepid class has always been my favorite. It's a more reasonable size.
my thoughts exactly awesome ship
I do appreciate the Intrepid's sleekness and agility, it does what it is designed for extremely well, but I just adore the sheer presence and gravitas of ginormous ships like the Galaxy class. The Galaxy may not be a fast agile ship required in war but they made for spectacularly opulent city ships, sturdy C&C ships, and flying bastions that projected all the best parts of the Federation out into deep space on long term missions. I would have rigged the Galaxy class far more for combat, more phaser strips, gimbal pulse phasers, a bunch of fighters/a docked support fleet, more torpedo launchers, and completely covered it in ablative armour. I would retain all the interior space and luxury for the sake of the crew and for the purposes of diplomatic missions, and use the acres of hangar space plus the many decks full of empty unused space for all those other upgrades as well as a secondary warp core to make my vision feasible.
The gel packs are an analogy to how we are trying to do AI now. Neural networks in software.
The endless shuttle bay also helped.
I like garage space. :)
Btw love the sponsor im huge fan of galaxy's edge KTF!
BioNeural gel packs! Give me the switches and blinky lights of the Original series any day!
@@subraxas Thanks for your sub and support! ;-)
We need a video on universe compression between series. In both Picard and SNW, it seems like any crappy shuttle/ship can get across the quadrent in 1.5 days. Everything is super close to everything time wise. Distance matters so much less in recent series when "we are distanced from humanity while we explore" was always generally a present backdrop previously.
Another great video you know your Star Trek stuff!
How about describing the Voyager vessel from the last episode ... with all the shield and weapons upgrades ... that was the best version of the Intrepid line
Oh snap Oak Harbor is my home town.
I would definitely be down for a warp scale video! Also, my wife and I are currently watching Voyager, so this video was excellently timed lol. Thank you for all you do!
God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)
12:41 Is it just me or does that shape remind you of the ships in The Orville? Makes me think someone did their homework.
Wish Paramount would invest in their legacy content and remaster both Voyager and DS9!
This has not been done because those two shows were shot on low definition video tape. Earlier shows like TOS were shot with film and later shows with high definition video. Converting DS9 and Voyager to high definition would be very difficult, if not impossible, due to the very high cost. The many cgi and FX shots also make conversion very complex and expensive.
I always thought Minuet was semi sentient because of the Binar's programming and not so much the Enterprise computer. They show her back to bland after the Binar's leave, and she's even less sentient seeming when they are passed out and she is giving Riker and Picard info on what the Binar's were doing. That made me kinda think she was being controlled by a Binar when they were still awake.
That's correct. The Binars filled to Enterprise's computer storage space with all of the data from their homeworld and used that software to create Minuet. The Enterprise was a giant external storage backup for the Binars until the solar flare E.M. pulse hit their planet and dissipated. Once the crisis was over, they downloaded the files back to the Binar's systems, which eliminated the Minuet program from the Enterprise computer database.
I personally subscribe to the theory that the Binar's adjustments to the Enterprise were what allowed Moriarty to become a sentient hologram, as well as several other instances of seeming sentience with the Enterprise D
As a SciFi nerd in the 1990's I remember when Voyager debuted. I wanted that ship so much in my collection so I could see ever aspect of it. Personally I see it as a hardened war ship and more realistic vessel for Star Fleet as a Galaxy class ship was so ridiculously big it almost made no sense. Where as Voyager I could totally see as a vessel for all things including war. Put some Defiant pulse phaser on her and wow. Boom watch out enemies. I personally dislike the show but loved the ship.
Agreed. The Enterprise-D's size, plus families, was ridiculous.
Will you consider doing a video like this about the Defiant?
Haha, depends on if I come up with anything special to say about it!
@@OrangeRiver I've always liked the fact that the engines nearly shook the ship apart during trial runs.
Great breakdown of a great ship. The show was also good at times...
Yes, do a video on the warp scale, could be interesting.
"...?maybe I should do a video on the Warp Scale." Yes, plz bc I need to know how fast "zephram Cochran" travels so that I can finally trigger First Contact with a perceivable Warp Signature
There's no hidden genius because Voyager was a genius design overall
Also the variable geometry warp nacelle was designed to lessen the harmful effect of warp travel on space and subspace.
it was an interesting episode. good work.
My fave ship in all of Trek 😊
Wow that was really informative. What I wondered is how Voyager didnt run out of gel packs. In one of the early episodes they said they only had a handful of back ups.
I love the explanation that the Doctor is able to become more than a standard EMH because of the gel pack tech. It really bothered me to think that all the EMHs could be sentient.
I kinda liked the idea that if an AI is left on long enough and allowed to gather data it was never intended to gather, that it could become sentient. I liked that The Doctor became sentient because he was never meant to be used the way he was.
A lot of people forget voyager had 5 torpedo launchers tovok used the 5th one on the underside of the secondary hull to strafe off the vidians
Why didn't you discuss when Voyager stopped using the gel packs?
Sentience is not Sapience.
Sentience is the cognitive ability to process sensory stimulation. Hence terms like sentir in Latin languages, means "to feel."
Sapience refers to the ability to engage in complex thought. Just as in sapientia (sapiencia in my language), applies to "wisdom."
@@ThommyofThenn It's what happens when in-house vernacular, specific to an industry, is shared more casually among the greater diaspora. Imagine how many computer oriented terms got misused as the technology gained more traction. Within an industry, terms will have very specific meanings, however, words don't exist in a pocket dimension, so they get spread around. Unfortunately, most people - not in those industries - will exercise a more generalized version of these terms, ultimately leading to them being used incorrectly. Ultimately it's mainly harmless, and I am being a prude about it. However, I grew up with literature as a foundation to my education, so learning the etymology of terms was enforced by my professors.
Another great video Tyler as always the Intrepid class is an interesting ship prob not the prettiest ship in the fleet but interesting
Thanks Saxon!
Can you cover the miraculous industrial replicator that could rebuild whole shuttles in apparent days. How many did they lose over the 7 series? Dozens.
I thought the variable pylon was because of the warp field breakdown and the ecoterrorism episode?
That was part of it, to be sure.
@@OrangeRiverthe Defiant nacelles are tight against the body though. Would that not negate the explanation?
@Da Duza Dude The connection with "Force of Nature" was tbh not really stated on screen, more of a theory that the writers came up with. But as with a lot of things, making that a priority kinda fell by the wayside.
@@OrangeRiver understood. Thanks for answering 😊
I think that’s only how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode you refer to, “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
Let's go!!!
I hope the research for this episode decreased your disdain for Voyager.
Wasn't there something said about hitting Warp speed with the solar system, in 1 of the TOS movies? or is that a topic for another video 🙂
Do The Orville next.
The nacelles are field emitters. Just like a magnet is a field emitter. When you change the orientation of the emitters you are changing the flux (and other things) between them.
I thought the pylons moving was to reduce warp emissions and get around the warp 5 limit set in that one tng episode
@@subraxas If you check memory alpha for that episode, in the continuity section it mentions that this theory was put fourth by rick sternbach and okuda in an unpublished book. Of course no hard evidence, but I'd hardly call it beta canon.
That’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, the TNG episode “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
@@mb2000 thats actually some deep lore to be honest. I like it!
If my short term foreground memory had even 1MB of capacity, I'd be way more functional in life. In reality it's probably far less.
You left out the class's shuttle replicator.
Looks like a garden shovel
one of the things ST Voyager suffered for was having so many "insert future plot development here" technical innovations that never ended up being relevant to anything because the writers were too stupid to remember their own plans. it was like a ship made entirely of Chekov guns that never fired. god that show was terrible.
You take that last part back. :)
I thought the canon explanation for variable warp nacelles was subspace damage (tng:force of nature)
That’s how it’s explained behind the scenes. However, “Force of Nature” actually mentions a USS Intrepid as the ship Geordi is having his warp efficiency competition with. As this episode takes place in 2370, only one year before Voyager’s 2371 launch, it’s highly likely that this Intrepid is the Intrepid-class prototype. Therefore, the Intrepid and its class were already entering service before the damage warp does to subspace was discovered and the implementation of the Warp 5 speed limit!
I've sometimes amused myself imagining that for some reason Q would owe me one or a few wishes and I was hesitating between asking for Voyager or the Defiant. But choosing the last episode's version of Voyager once upgraded with future Janeway's shuttle technology would be much better, larger and more comfortable than the Defiant, even if it doesn't have the cloaking technology.
I think Voyager would have been better off with its “variable geometry nacelles” sticking with the open panels of the earlier concept sketches rather than the moving nacelle pylons we ended up with. Because while there’s an in-universe explanation for why the nacelles need to be raised for warp speed (to give them clear line of sight with each other, to be safer for the subspace environment even at speeds above warp 5, etc.), there is no satisfactory explanation for why they have to be lowered at sublight speeds.
Seriously, why does the ship need the nacelles down at all? Why not leave them up all the time (at warp, at impulse, in orbit, docked at a station, landed on a planet, etc.)?
The opening panels leaned into better justifications for all of that. Why do they need to open at warp? Because that’s how these new nacelles go faster, or more efficiently, or more environmentally friendly, or some combination of those factors. So why not just leave them open all the time? Because that’s delicate and vulnerable machinery in those nacelles that shouldn’t be exposed to harmful environments or enemy weapons fire when it isn’t necessary.
Alas for what could have been.
So... I knew about the Bussard collectors on warp nacelles, and that they needed have have visibility from the front. I also knew that ships needed to have at least 2 nacelles, and there needed to be clear line of sight between them. I *didn't* know the given in-universe reason for that clearance requirement though, so thanks for that part of my education with this video! Much appreciated.
Good points touched on with the Bioneural Gel Packs. The most fascinating part of the AI revolution is that it implies the very phenomenon of intelligence is just a very small pattern in the brain. There is just so much else going on in there alongside it in our own and it's also that much harder to look at animals the same way. What we hold so dear as humans really isn't all that special. It makes me wonder what really is in that big picture, or more so, what do we all (thing with brains) share that really is? Where does consciousness really start and stop? How many ways could it look? Could we tell if we saw it?
i gotta wonder where that genetic material that makes up the bio neural gel pack came from.
To me the rule of the universe that there had to be clear space between the nacelles was news to me, but I haven't gone into all rules of the Star Trek universe.
That said - even the cartoons by Chuck Jones had certain rules to follow for the story to work. Wiley E. Coyote should always fail to catch the Roadrunner and his contraptions should always be flawed in some way.
It’s dominion war upgrade it got ablative hull armour updated phaser arays and quantum torpedos.
it’s a science ship, but really I think it’s a heavy cruiser
Please do a video on the warp scale
It was my understanding that the variable warp nacelles were a 1st attempt direct solution to the revelation that “brute forcing” warp travel, as had been done for centuries, was unsustainable after it was discovered that sustained warp travel was damaging subspace.
Awesome review as always! just a couple of notes: The intrepid class doesnt have quantum torpedoes, nor the launchers required for them, and what you call torpedoes tubes are the actual launcher mechanism for photon torpedoes.
Just keep a certain Talaxian's cheese experiments away from the gel packs...
I'd have argued that Vick Fontaine was another example of a hologram that had gained some form of sentience.
11:27 You might be missing something. Do you remember when voyager's crew was discussing subspace tears and its relationship to the warp drive? I believe they had to change the position of the nacelles in order to change the amount of damage they were causing in subspace, or risk never been able to use warp drive through that particular galaxy.
That explanation has never to my knowledge been confirmed in canon. It's a popular fan theory, and it might have deserved a mention in the video but it's not mentioned in any episodes (again, to my knowledge)
@@OrangeRiver I'll do some research and if I find the episode. I'll send another comment.
@@OrangeRiver I believe the episode was called "force of nature", but it was TNG.
@BlackHoleForge Yeah that's definitely the episode that introduced the concept of the subspace rift, but on screen it's never been connected to variable geometry pylons.
The second most pwerful supercomputer is located in Texas, my home state. It is called the "Dense Voyager Deep Space Mine". See I can make this stuff up.