I love the Speccy (my first love), but these particular games were surely chosen because they looked better on it? Many games looked much better on the c64, to the point where, in the case of c64 originals, it was difficult to make a Spectrum conversion. I was lucky enough to have both micros for a short while. Arcade conversions (of all things) were often a lot better on the Spectrum though, mainly because it had such an amazing wealth of programming experience and expertise behind it. I think that was the key to it all. But this compilation wasn't exactly intended to show off the c64 in my view.
It just goes to show that it's not just hardware capability that determines how good a game is. It is also programming ability and, in many cases, how much TIME the programmer has to complete their task/conversion. Certainly the C64 is the more capable machine from a hardware standpoint in virtually every way (except clock speed, whose advantage is lost on the Spectrum when the CPU has to do all the work of a VIC-type chip, etc). Games where sprites and sound are not used much do especially well on the Spectrum, such as "Elite".
@@mattlewis5095 Iwouldn't think so. C64 games could be more colourful, but they paid for that with a decreased resolution. It's why C64 games often looked "blocky". Speccy games had colour limitations, but a more vibrant colour palette and the graphics were of higher resolution, and more detailed. It ensured each had their own look. Of course, clever programming could bypass the limitations on both, and there were other issues...the C64 SID chip for music and sprite capability, the Speccy was faster and more responsive, with better 3D capability.
@@edwardlafferty8796 Really though? Looking again, these are the some of the ugliest c64 games I've seen. Reading the angry intro too... this post starter seems like a pretty scolded chap tbh! Both computers have been stretched further in recent years, and both had pros and cons for sure. Commodore were an amazing company though, and both the c64 and the Amiga were two of the greatest computers ever made. They should be with us now, as should Sinclair in my opinion.
I remember always comparing the graphics between the Amstrad, Speccy and c64 in magazines. I had a speccy and used to cry at the comparisons between the Amiga and Speccy until i got an Amiga. Spent a hell of a lot of my time playing Speccy games though, great times.
That North & South game on the Spectrum is an amazing achievement considering the limitations of the system. So much colour without any clash. Fantastic.
Spectrum wins on crisp sprites and graphics. Commodore 64 wins on sounds and music. PC at that time won on speed and timeframes. To me, Spectrum games always have had that feeling of "open world". Not sure how else to describe it.
@@bud389 Yep- the C64 is slower, but has some seriously swish hardware sprites meaning it's very easy to get 50fps. That does happen on the Speccy, but only rarely.
C64 really had the Spectrum beat in the specs department. And in most side-to-side game comparisons it is better. That's not the say the Speccy was a slouch, especially when you consider the price difference back in the day. For the money, the Spectrum was the system of choice for a lot of people, because it was several times cheaper.
As a C64 guy growing up, we never had Spectrums here in North America (I live in Eastern Canada) The closest we had was the Timex Sinclair, which didn't really sell that well, and had a lot of compatibility issues with Spectrum games. However after playing the Spectrum via emulators (mostly through MAME/MESS) I really think it's an underrated platform. Especially for shoot 'em ups and racers. Most racers on the commie (save for Super Cycle and Turbo Outrun and a couple of others) were either way too easy, or they were completely unplayable. Vector graphics were also very weak on the C64 save for a few gems like Thrust and Mercenary.
The C64 had better graphics capability overall, and much better sound, but it had a very weak CPU. Also the speccy had no choice but to use 256x192 (with 2 colours per attribute block) where as the C64 provided a few choices including 320x200 with two colours per attribute block or 160x200 with four colours per attribute block. As a result speccy games often have higher resolution.
@@Mandrak789 It's too slow, basically. The C64's achilles heel was the VIC2 sharing speed with the CPU - so a potentially 2 Mhz computer (which would have been fairly nippy) had to be 1Mhz just by design. Not that it mattered with that sprite hardware, but it certainly did matter when it needed to do anything else.
@@Mandrak789 because when they did the C64 ran like treacle in a freezer speccy hard driving at 192x256: 01:05:13 Commie hard driving at 320x200: 01:07:51
There is a lot to like about the Speccy's screen aesthetics but let us face it -- this is an unreasonable compilation, picking out some distinctly poor Commodore versions, and actually not any of the games that defined the system. To get the record straight, just look at The Last Ninja, Impossible Mission, Turrican, International Karate+, Wizball, Uridium... the list goes on an on.
I can already see the C64 getting into further struggles with some titles you mention there the 128k versions rub salt in the wounds with Target Renegade and although Uridium was on the 48 with no 128k version (that should be done one day) Uridium looks prettier on the Spectrum IMO and scrolls beyond expectations smooth as anything .. Spectrum games seem to stand the test of time even looking at The Way Of The Exploding Fist 1 + 2 the sprite detail has fared better on the Speccy it's all very wishy washy and scrappy on the C64 BUT the only colours I like on the C64 are the greens and the greys and sometimes the blues can be used to good effect but the rest of the colours are actually worse than the VIC 20 I've always stated that the Vic 20 would have been THE machine if it was boxed with a 64k RAM expansion it still had a 3 channel sound capability that has been made to do SID like stuff on the demo scene /homebrew games and the Vic 20 colours are as clear and bright as a bell Whenever the C64's greatest games are mentioned it's almost always : Last Ninja, IK+ and Wizball but I've played Wizball on the Spectrum 128 and C64 the gameplay is great on both and the game physics work great on both it's only the infamous colour clash that is fully unleashed on Speccy Wizball but I was never bothered by CC it was a "pretty" flaw if ever there was one ok the C64 gets us on parallax scrolling but I have seen the Spectrum coded well enough to get around that too ..probably a good idea to do 128k Spec V C64 for some fierce threads :) It's all fun these playground arguments even in my 40's just can't get enough of them
Yeah, Turrican is at the start of the video and a good example where the c64 version is better than the Speccy version. Aren't you a bit old to be a zealot?
I looked at the first few games and it is obvious that this is going to be ZX Spectrum biased video. Respect for the size of the video. I had both computers and I thought the C64 was much better. I didn't know that the ZX had so many games done better.
Well of course... it's a ZX Spectrum based video channel 🙂 The Spectrum has shown that it could hold its own against the Commodore - in recent years it can even emulate the C64's SID chip with just the beeper alone, even producing awe inspiring symphonies, as well as showcase breathtaking demos. Even the borders can be manipulated to use them as detailed play areas if coding is handled with the right sort of approach. The Spectrum has only been limited by programming creativeness. I wonder how long before more BORDER demos come forward?
@@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 haven't seen sid emulation on the speccy beeper, but that can't be good, the sid was a magical chip, the best sound chip on a 8 bit computer, even better than that on the ST. also, never seen a game that takes advantage of the 4mhz zilog, no game was faster on the speccy for obvious reasons due to lack of custom chips for gpu and sound. C64 was actually so good, that most of the 2D platform games were better on th C64 than on the ST, cause the ST didn't have sprites and scrolling supportl so it was always jerky. Also the Zilog was somehow slower than the C64 even in Basic...
@@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 Also, I see that Turican was recorded badly fro the c64, is smoother than that. Also the best game for the speccy SupeHangOn is the second game in the video, then Chase HQ which is good for the speccy...40 years on, still fanbois are rooting for their 8 bit machine :) Just need to run few game for the C64, to see that the ZX never stood a chance, play Mayhem in Monsterland, game over.
@@Corsa15DT interestingly, I remember seeing some (still) images of Mayhem In Monsterland, for the Spectrum (using dithering from recollection) - it looked VERY good. Would look even better with colour switching every frame interrupt - but of course, that would require dedicated graphic design work. If you're afraid to look at SoundPaint's video I understand :) I once discarded my (first) Spectrum years ago, as I thought it couldn't do much. I'd wrongly underestimated its true, *VAST* sound capabilities. I even like the C64, but I suppose I'm biased because I suppose the British underdog. That and it was less than half the price of the Commodore. As for the ST, I don't think I ever used one, but I remember using my neighbour's Amiga back in around '88. Really enjoyed that.
@@Corsa15DT Some games in this video are slower on the C64. And try Starglider, Starion and many similar games like Starstrike 2 (which was never converted to the C64 "for obvious reasons" aka 1 MHz CPU). Carrier Command only got a 2D version for the C64 due to the lack of CPU speed. Enough examples? 😉
Thanks a MILLION! Or fifty, at least. The ZX was superior in every case--colour palette and sprites. C64 had some terrific games, but in terms of graphical artistry and awesomeness... well, Speccy's the champ!!
Ah, nostalgia! Both computers were brilliant - and both had their share of absolutely amazing games (though very few of those are shown in this video for some reason). Here are some examples of games that really showed off what each computer could do: C64 - Dropzone - Uridium - Turrican2 - Pistop 2 - Ghosts n' Goblins - The Last Ninja - Enforcer - Myth - Summer Games II - Mayhem in Monsterland Spectrum: - Knight Lore - Starstrike 3D - I of the Mask - Extreme - Uridium (just as good as the C64 version - in a different way) - Wec Le Mans - Exolon - Quazatron - Gyron - Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles And that's just a few.... Great times!
The more you compare a zx spectrum with a similar one, I realize that nowadays, the ZX Spectrum is still alive and new things reappear every day with respect to it.
@@TheFusedplug Time hasn't been kind with people's biases neither, apparently. Taking both machines' own characteristics into account and from an eminently artistic point of view, it's objectively impossible to claim that one has aged better than the other, as both are products of their Era - antiques, outdated machines by definition and going by the current standards. The only reasonable and fair way to assess the quality of their hardware is by doing so on a case-by-case scenario, judging each program by its own individual merits and taking each one's own peculiarities and context into consideration. Anything less than that would be unfair both to the engineers that created each machine and to the great, hardworking programmers and artists that made huge efforts to push their limits and turn their respective weaknesses into strengths as often as possible.
That's not a Spectrum-exclusive quality. New things reappear and new games are programmed for the C64, too, on a constant basis - as happens, too, with the Amstrad and MSX.
Well that's a veritable shit storm of comments. To be fair, both machines had positives and negatives. In this video the C64 had more negatives imo. Let's remember here that the C64 was designed to play games and the Spectrum wasn't. If Clive had forseen "jet set fucking Willy" as he put it then perhaps he might have given the Speccy more oompf. Anyway, good video, amazingly biased comments from C64 owners unwilling to admit the Speccy had plus points (high res, brighter more lively colours, and the AY chip). The homebrew scene on both machines is alive and producing quality games. If we are to move forward then stop living is the past and shitting on each other choice of computer. Speccy > C64 👍👍
You have stirred up a hornet's nest here :D I see that many C64 fanboys can't reconcile that twice as cheap and weaker computer sometimes had much better looking games. The pain of the c64 fanboys is that they often laughed at Speccy. Of course is know that C64 was a better 8bit computer. But personally, I couldn't convince myself to C64 - ugly, big pixels and colors. You had to look at the TV from 3 meters to know what's going on. But of course it's a matter of taste. Good job MRG!
Preach it brother. I've poured myself a glass of Jack, it's 2:30 in the morning and I'm still watching this vid and reading the comments. As you say, there's no getting around the simple fact that the C64 had better hardware and a lot of it's games just blew their Spec equivelants out of the water, but damn, after years of listening to C64 fans parading all that in front of us, watching two hours of the humble Spec cleaning house (mostly) against it's more powerful rival is a real joy. Pouring another out now, damn, where was this compilation thirty years ago, haha.
Very early I regretted the teamism from my younger years as a C64 & Amiga user. I would have liked to learn more about the different platforms. I see now the Spectrum had a lot going for it.
@@avenginglettuce Just wait till you get to the Hard Driving bit (01:04:30 - and watched at an equivalent time in the morning) - i nearly spat my Blue Nun out (not a euphemism).
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 there are four sure cases the C64 has yet performance, but looking at those rectangular pixels at those washed out colours never did it for me. Yes, the sprite generator was a great idea and the ZX's colour clash was a big limit, but it still looked better on the ZX.
I was lucky enough to have access to both systems growing up. I owned a ZX Spectrum 48k, and my best friend had a bread in C64. The speccy always seemed to have larger, brighter, better defined sprites than the C64, but often at the expense of a slower frame rate. The C64 games usually looked more “chunky” but ran smoother. Some games looked and played best on the Sinclair and others looked and played best on the Commodore. They almost universally sounded better on the C64 though, thanks to the awesome SID chip.
Having owned a ZX clone (TK90-X) and wishing that the C64 had been sold in my country, I have to say the obvious: On paper the C64 should NEVER lose on 2D action games to the Speccy, especially scrolling ones (3d is another matter). But bad programming happens. It used to happen all the time back then, there were just not enough skilled/experienced programmers to go around. The home computer and video game industry was still in it's infancy. It happened all the time on the Speccy too, even as limited as the machine was there were some conversions we all knew that the machine could have done better. Peace out.
I have alot of time for the ZX Spectrum in what it managed to pull off. A truly amazing computer which managed to go beyond its expectations. The same goes for the C64 with its hardware enhancements and great sound chip. But since the commodore machine came later I can only ask everyone to appreciate and admire quite rightfully the Spectrum with this comparison vid. I originally owned an Amstrad CPC 464 way back then.
I only wish you were hones enough to say that you chose 50 games that present ZX spectrum 48K (and in two cases 128K) in great light. Quite a few of well now C64 turds are included and no ZX spectrum ones. Other than that, good showcase of what the pile of rubbers was capable of producing. If you used some Speccy exclusives it would look even better.
both great machines with pros and cons. C64 did stuff better and so did the Speccy. I think the overall winner has to be the C64 but both machines had great games and their own distinct atmosphere and style. One thing I definitely notice is that certain Speccy owners are particularly salty in the same way some Atari ST owners talk through a filter of bs. I'm also surprised no great looking C64 games were shown. It's some 35 years on now and people are still consumed by this shit. Sad. A great time where just about all the 8bits had some edge or approach that could be utilised better than another. I loved playing the Speccy back when my friend brought his machine around because I got to play stuff the C64 wasn't suited to and I get why people love the system so much but because of how subjective the topic of what equals a better presentation, well you're always going to get a stalemate The great thing is we get to play any of the systems now so just enjoy them. It's interesting to note that what speccy owners don't figure a lot of the time is that the C64 with all it's chunky and muted colour scheme, there was a deeply distinct atmosphere of it's own but it was very different. Same with the overly harsh 'ghastly' Amstrad palette which is gorgeous to many. One obvious advantage the C64 had was how well it threw stuff around in a much smoother way so it tends to be more impressive to a lot of people. I guess it's a chip on the shoulder for Speccy owners because the machine was often the target for ridicule. Most can agree these were great times at the very least and you felt lucky to own either looking back When I think back to highlights on each machine I think of all the variously suited games. Impossible Mission or Uridium or Pitstop 2 on the C64 as shining examples of the type of games that simply outdid the Spectrum but then I think of the Knightlore which astounded me at the time and is more ideally suited here. Sabrewulf is probably my favourite game on Spectrum and has a visual charm you just can't get anywhere else. Games of a certain design just felt better on Spectrum because they were designed around the limitation but similarly the C64 was like having an arcade machine at times and made the spectrum a bit of a joke to many
It did have less memory remember, but some games were definitely better on the speccy, but both systems had ups and downs in games, the speccy had a charm to it and its was always the underdog really,but it has so many games in its back catalogue and still rising even today, as for the music on the 64, Have you heard AMC and Castlevainia, amazing tunes for a speccy!
@@stewsretroreviews I had an ST also so I'm used to how nice tunes can sound on that chip. Thing is the Speccy in some ways holds up a little better than the C64 as it has an almost artistic quality to it. I go between the two when playing these games because the experience is still always so unique on them. I never really stopped playing them to be honest and I'm glad they're still so respected
The god awful framerates and sprites on the Spectrum kills it for me. It has some pretty neat games, but wow is it hard to play something going at 4 frames a second. Also, I'm wondering why he didn't include Last Ninja 2 in this video, or his second video, one of the most popular games during that era?
When I went from the Spectrum to the C64 it felt like I'd had an 'upgrade' all round, especially in terms of colour. Looking back on it now, I much prefer the vibrancy and resolution of the Speccy. The C64 is way too blocky and the colour palette is washed out.
Brisbane 1994, the C64 colour palette is designed for CRT screens/tv sets where, you can increase colour saturation. Same for low res blocky graphics, it’s much less of an issue on old TVs with very hight dot pitch. That’s why your memories remember great graphics on the C64. Never too late to get an old Commodore 1084s on ebay :)
I guess some people missed the point of this comparison. This isn't about "which system is better", as the Spectrum was already the underdog as soon as it came out in 1982. This list makes a point in that, sometimes, the underdog made a great showing. As I've found out later with the next superior Commodore machine (the Amiga), having better hardware by no means guaranteed better games. It's a fact of life, not the fault of any particular platform.
Well, I had a ZX Spectrum and later a C64. It's clear that in the comparison the're used particularly the older games, later ones made great improvement in the use of 8 bit hardware; and is when C64 made mayor difference. I enyoyed and loved them both, and are in my heart!! but the low framerate of the Speccy makes the gaming experience much bounded.
Depends on the coders. Really. Some were better at Spectrum, some were better at c64. It is like all those discussions about video game music and "Adlib is better!" "No, Amiga!" "No, Roland!". It depends on how they were used.
An excellent video, just found this (and your channel) and loved it :) Being a Speccy fanatic, i always wanted the Spectrum versions to be the best, but i think if you cast a critical eye, you can see each machine had strengths and weaknesses as well as the people who worked on the games. the real winners are the middle-aged 8bit gamers who can explore and choose the best of all worlds :D
@@soundsofoscillators Most of the spectrum games in this video and the sequel video he did are obscure titles barely anyone has ever heard of, and seeing as the C64 had over 3,800 titles, it's not the difficult to find overlap between them and pick the ones the Spectrum emulated best. The Muncher, Wec Le Mans, Bobsleigh? Where's "Cobra"? Where's "The Last Ninja"? Where's "Infiltrator"? Where's "Robocop"? Where's "Rambo: First Blood"? They're nowhere to be found since this guy was pretty clearly cherrypicking games he thought looked better on the ZX Spectrum. The lack of including the Last Ninja is especially evidence of this since it was a hugely popular game at the time, and the ZX Spectrum version is a laughing stock, as it's entirely in black and white with a god awful framerate compared to the colorful C64 version.
@@bud389 I totally agree, I meant that those particular games looks better on ZX Spectrum. As I said I'm not a Speccy fan or C64 fun, but I know enough about these two platforms to understand that if Speccy version looks better, it means that the devs gave all their best or C64 devs were lazy and just were slacking while developed the game :D Anyway, I agree that the author choosed not random games for the video
I had a Spectrum back then while literally everybody else I knew had a C64 ( and one guy had an MSX ). I thought the C64 was somehow superior, but in retroSpect ( no pun intended ) looking at those games nowadays, it's clear that the C64 had arguably a better soundchip ( arguably, because in a lot of games you could only have music or sfx, while on the Speccy you had both in most of the same games, thanks to the internal beeper ) , smoother hardware scrolling and sprites (but what good are those sprites when they look chunky as hell with those awkward rectangular pixels ? ) while the Spectrum had the better games overall. Higher res, bigger (non-hardware) sprites, better color palette ( but limited by color clashing and lack of beige ), and a somewhat faster processor ( 3.5 Ghz Z80 ) capable of handling smoother, faster vector graphics. Also monochromes, higher resolution games ( like isometric Knightlore etc. ) were always, undeniable faster on the Speccy and even had the whole 16 colors palette available for use in the non gaming area of the screen, while in hires mode the C64 only had 4 I believe. I tried lot of games recently after many, many years on both platforms on the same monitor, using the same controller/keyboard ( thanks to emulation ) and I can confirm that most multi-platform games were indeed better on the Spectrum. Plus it shipped with built-in basic and a good instruction/programming book , which gave birth to a generation of programmers that did some amazing, original things back then in order to push the system over its limits, and many went on to become big shots in the industry, with some still relevant today! Therefore in a nutshell, the C64 was a more mainstream ( in terms of worldwide recognition ) and flashier machine for shallow people with richer parents, easier pleased by flashy grafix/sounds and totally unable to recognize the over all better quality of the Spectrum system and the loving work of the dedicated community that continues to this day. Exclusives and badly ported games non withstanding.
Spectrum kicks ass! I never appreciated how much more playable the games are. There’s a few exceptions (Turican looks excellent on the c64, and runs very fast), but in general, given the choice of which to play, you’d chose the speccy version more often than not!
As a Spectrum owner and later on owning C64 as well I reckon the Spectrum (particularly 128k enhanced games) OWNS more playable games and the C64 although it owns a mere handful of games in comparison it owns them very well. I started my computer gaming life on a Vic 20 and I'd like to mention that even the Vic held its own a few times, for example JETPAC on the 8K/16K ram expanded VIC was quite possibly the best version out of the lot, ironically the Vic had nicer crisper colours generally than the C64 and I'm wondering just how well the Vic would have fared if it was released with a 64K ram pack instead of releasing the C64 as the sound capabilities although not SID still kicked some ass on that machine
Dude I say this as an Atari user, you are doing....... God's work by humiliating C64 users lol!(Not the machine, I enjoy my freshly acquired C64. I just hate C64 users running their mouths for more than 40 years now, as if their home computing experience was the only valid one!). I loved that you picked 50 main stream titles where the vibrant colors, high res and unique aesthetics of the humble Speccy couldn't be matched by the American micro.
The Speccy often wins because usually a higher resolution is used than on the C64, even though the C64 is capable of even higher resolution, as an option. Most C64 games have a lower resolution because the developers chose to have greater color density instead. But overall, the C64 still uses high resolution far more often than the Atari does, because quite frankly the Atari is really poor at high resolution, while the C64 is superior at it. It is even better than the Speccy at this, on a technical level, having higher resolution, a similar (actually slightly better) 8x8 attribute block system, and high resolution hardware sprites. So what I'm saying is that if the Speccy supposedly "humiliates" the C64 in this hand-picked comparison, then it humiliates the inherently lower-res Atari 8-bit even more. Additionally, in PAL, the Atari loses a lot of its color options, as many hues look the same as others, and they're all dull compared to the limited but far more vibrant colors of the Speccy, as well. I suppose for you, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," but most Speccy owners would undoubtedly turn their noses up at your low-res, dull-colored Atari, and rank it below the C64 for this reason. At least the C64 could and sometimes did do hi-res well. And more of that could have been done because of the C64's capabilities, but just wasn't, by choice. Of course, Speccy owners are biased toward high resolution and vibrant, saturated colors because it's what their computer can do. It doesn't mean they're right, but you're the one implying that they are, and in doing so, you make the Atari look bad in comparison to both the Speccy and the C64. If you think C64 fanboys are annoying to Atari fanboys, then realize that it works both ways, especially these days with Atari fanboys running their mouths and showing their ignorance even more. 🙄
C64 great sound and music....more colours....but that lack of graphical resolution compared with the Spectrum just kills a lot games. Or is that just me?
Yes, you're right but the failure of some games was also down to the programmers as well either trying to meet tight deadlines and cutting corners, inexperienced in something or just plain lazy. Some companies were more interested in getting the game out rather than getting it made and taking more time to get it polished up.
If games were rushed it would be on both platforms, though. Problem is when something was a conversion form one to the other, then the comparison isn't fair. Then there's things like Doom where it took much more clever programming to get it onto the C64 whereas it was perfectly possible on the Speccy so it's not really meaningful to compare to two. I love the fact that there's no answer, ultimately. They are just too different.
I agree. The Spectrum wasn't really a thing here in North America (I live in Canada). But a LOT of the official arcade conversions on the C64 (especially a lot of the AMERICAN ones were utter shit) There were SOME exceptions such as the EUROPEAN version of Bionic Commando and Green Beret, as well as Zaxxon, but there were a lot of horrible conversions like Bomb Jack (which had great music, but the gameplay was utter shit. In fact, I think I preferred the C64 Bomb Jack clone called Bombo to the C64 version of Bomb Jack in terms of gameplay. Luckily I had a friend who had a BBS, and ended up getting a lot of the European versions. There were a FEW US conversions that were better (the US version of Street Fighter comes to my mind), but for the most part, if the game was produced in both NTSC and PAL, the PAL version was usually better.
If you want to get technical, I think the Amstrad CPC had the best color pallet of the 8-bit micros, too bad the games were often hampered by horrible scrolling and lazy coding though
@@alkolove1 You know what else _sux_ ? Childish biases. Both computers had their own strengths, weaknesses and unique charms. It's been almost 40 years, more than enough time to get over the school playground mentality, don't you think?
I had and have still got both systems in nearly all their forms, 16k, 48k, 48k+, 128, 128+2, 128+2a and a 128+3. C64, C64c, 128, 128D, in my opinion the Commodore is superior, however when it comes to racing games the spectrum is far better. Everything else the commodore excels.
Thanks for the video. Definetely the Commodore's versions are 100% better ;) . Thanks a lot for clarifying. What I don't understand is why didn't you use a Commodore Pet for the comparison. Very nice that you use a Commodore emulation that will never give the right palette colors or the right SID sound and nice that you select those games improved for the Spectrum 128k version only.
The C64 version of Chase HQ sure wasn't. The spectrum version was far better as it was the closest to the original Arcade as far as gameplay is concerned
Yes this is a shamefully biased Spectrum fanboy video. The Spectrum just cannot compete with awesome C64 games like Creatures, Last Ninja 2, IK+, Speedball 2, Barbarian II, Tusker, Platoon, Ghouls n Ghosts, Winter Games, Turrican II. It's a total No Contest. They seem at least a generation apart.
@@rootykazooty351 I think the point is more that given the Speccy was half the price, wasn't even designed with graphics in mind and had no additional hardware to help with sprite scrolling, it's amazing just how many times it not only stood up to but actually bested it's better specced rival. Of course the C64 has plenty of superior games, but this video right here, this video is a celebration of where the humble Speccy shone brightest. :)
A lot of the time, the devs either did a good job or bad job on either system I would say. I'm Speccy all the way, and just how many games were made for it, its well into the thousands I would say, and still increasing in 2020😊. Amazing when you think about it.
I was big in to gaming back then, I know graphically back then the C64 was better because it was easier to compare, but today there is not much difference and to me I was having a much better time playing the spectrum instead of thinking about I wish I had better graphics and sound, I remember having a list of spectrum games and counted 3000 of them when I was in a shop called Woolworths when I was 12 almost every game I played I enjoy a lot I had 1000 games that I played fully by the time I left school at 16, my C64 friends were more in to how a game looked than actually getting on and completing all the games I preferred the C16+4 because I played the games and enjoyed them a lot. to me it was about playing lots of games not looking at them mostly for the graphics and not really playing any games. Most of the games I enjoyed growing up are never talked about because I was a gamer, none gamers played mostly branded commercial games where I got stuck in and played the games to discover that the best games are never the most popular game or the best reviewed, I would spend days or weeks on each game without moving to another game that’s how we played back then, I remember having more fun on the spectrum than even the Xbox, I did not play a game for 5 minutes then move on to the next every game got fully played and no reviewer could tell me what game was good or bad because I I would get fun out of games people did not like
We were kids, it's as simple as that. Everything you mentioned has next to nothing to do with the quality of the games you played or the hardware you played them on, but the way you felt and experienced things back then and the way your brain embedded those experiences into the complex structure that conforms your unique personality. Besides that, those kids you remember as being more into graphics and stuff in clear contrast with your utter appreciation of gameplay and such? Not to burst your bubble, but they probably felt the same way about you - and none of you were right. Self-perception is a double-crossing, backstabbing bastard, believe me. Regarding memories, sometimes is a good idea to season them a bit with a dash of experienced common sense and a pinch of objectivity.
Right away I saw that some of the C64 versions use the low-res (160 pixel) modes to get more colors, but the high-res versions on the ZX Spectrum look better because they are crisper and, surprisingly, more colorful & vivid. So visually, I liked the Spectrum stuff more often. The C64 can be manipulated todo roughly the same things as the ZX using the high-res modes (of both sprites & graphics), but it would be more work for the programmer. And the ZX had the advantage of a cpu with more sophisticated opcodes... So the playing field was much more level than I once thought.
James Carpino you forgot spectrum has no real sound chip. Hardware sprites or hardware scroll. For more static games with monochrome and graphic style spectrum for sure shines. When things start to move or need a more realistic look... not so much
Very few games here are better in the C64 .Those that are better, are by far. But the C64 was an expensive machine. If you were to load by tape forget it. Speccy , even 48k was much more worth its money. You have to understand though , that here the games compared are mostly from the 128k spectrum versions . That's why you get to have great music and fx , in most of what you see here. If you had to compare the 48k -which is what most people had- as speccy was the computer of the poor, then, the comparison would not be the same. In anycase the C128 actually was underdeveloped and sooooo expensive that comparing anything with it has no actual ground. Speccy 128 was still less the price of a C64 , less professional but far more computer than any of its age. The amount of people still investing into it after so many years proves my point. Only Amiga , the classic model , ever reached such status in the minds of users here in Greece. Great machines all by their own rights including Amstrads , but you have to realize that games were up to the programmer and not the machine. If you had a good coder for a game in Speccy but not for Commodore and a mediocre for Amstrad , that's what you would get.And vice versa of course.
Colors and especially sound are huge wins for the Commodore. Graphically I would say the Speccy has it on many of these games. The "Savage" game came across most bizzare on the Speccy though.
Do people making comparisons here even realize the main difference: Spectrum games are ALL running in bitmap mode, whereas C64 is mostly text mode with hardware sprites. That explains the difference.
ZX and C64 are VERY different machines, so its hard comparing them. I would like to see C64 being pushed in hires/bitmap mode, but it was rarely the thing. C64 games used lot of multiplexed HARDWARE sprites and HARDWARE character mode, supported by VIC chip. ZX had none of those. Not mentioning superb SID sound. But C64 was sloppy in hires mode, because of slow CPU and chips had no special features to show using bitmap. Then again, because it was utilized quite rarely, coders had no experience to do it better. Would be interesting to see proper hires game on C64, supported with lot of hardware sprites and some tricks C64 has in its sleeves. As it is, C64 was always slower in 3D gaming, and smart games requiring raw CPU power. ZX had better and faster CPU. C64 has 33% more RAM, and considering that hires was not used usually - it makes for 50% more RAM used for code/data, plus chips taking the load of visuals and sound. Really, hard to compare.
This kind of comparison does not make sense. We are comparing GAMES. the ZX machine is a cheap, not specifically task oriented machine , while the C64 is really a game console with a lot of features useful for games, selled as a computer. It's not a secret, for example that the VIC-II chip is on the C64 because commodore created initially this chip to be used in arcade machines and when failed to sell for this purpose they used it on c64. Similar situation goes to SID. The 6502 on C64 @ 1Mhz is slower (even if not so slow as spectrum fans claims) than the z80 @3.5Mhz on spectrum. Most compare the clock speed as the reason of being the zx faster than C64 CPU, that while is true , it is not the real reason of the difference in speed, because clocking a 6502 @ 1-1,5Mhz is common as clocking a z80 @2,5-4Mhz in the era because those cpus use the clock very differently (internally)
Turrican?! Really? I beg to differ. I didn't play many Spectrum games, but I would be the first to admit that R-Type was excellent. But the fact is, my fondest memories of 8-Bit gaming are strongly tied to the music - Wizball, Last Ninja, Robocop, Lightforce......those games simply would not have been the same without their amazing soundtracks. And they were great games too of course. A childhood without CREATURES 1 & 2, Retrograde, Turbo Outrun (with Maniacs soundtrack), Ghouls'n'Ghosts (without Tim Follin soundtrack), Delta, Hammerfist, Armalyte, Last Ninja 1-3........no thanks. PS. My parents weren't rich. Most teenagers back then scrimped and saved to get a 64 - then shared games with a network of friends. The Amiga was always WAY out of my reach.
I like both machines in their own way but I agree it seemed Spectrum tilted. Nothing wrong with that as I had the Spectrum myself. Some great titles often made for crap on the other system, Hard Drivin and Super Hang On for example. But also the other way round we had Kung-Fu Master, Nemesis, Salamander, Out Run Europa etc which were equally shite on the spectrum compared to great guns on the C64.
gameplay is always 598884848484848448 percent more important than graphics especially when it comes to arcade conversions...the closer to ARCADE perfect the gameplay is, the better the game...better graphics don't mean shit when the gameplay is nowhere near the arcade version
It looks like gamma is suboptimal for C64 recording. Too C64 looks atari-2600-ish in stuff that cannot do natively, or when lots of memory is required for high-res full-color graphics (resolution halving), while spectrum can do very little natively, except one thing, high-pixel-res low-color-res at low cpu/mem usage (color attributes).
The C64's 320x200 (compared to the Spectrum's 256x192) graphics modes also have 8x8 color attributes to reduce the amount of memory used by the frame buffer. You seem to be thinking of the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC, which are not like the C64 or the Spectrum. However, the C64 also offers 160x200 modes with more colors available in each 4x8 attribute block, and it was the choice of most developers to use these modes instead. They didn't have to, though. The C64 has plenty of RAM for any of its graphics modes--64.5K - 2 bytes, to be exact, rather than the 38K that many think it is limited to (that is only for BASIC code and variables).
How can the C64 version of Chase HQ be so bad ? It's like they tried to port the Speccy version over usually not a good idea. This is Ocean we're talking about right ? The C64 does driving games fine usually doesn't it?
Buggy Boy, Stunt Car Racer, Grand Prix Circuit, Turbo Outrun, Out Run Europa, Powerdrift and Chase HQ II were all superior on C64. Pitstop II, REVS+ Turbocharge that the spectrum didnt get were great games. I'm glad I owned both machines so I could play a decent version of Enduro Racer.
Spectrum ports were not always bad though. Skool Daze and Fairlight were both Spectrum ports and I played both of those like a motherfucker. Same for Head Over Heels.
My word, what an eye opener this video is - some of the C64 'efforts' would have shamed an Atari 2600. Yes Super Hang on, I'm looking at you (watch from 0:03:18 and try not to laugh...). As for R-Type, the C64 didn't even bother making the iconic 'ring of death' rotate (compare 00:39:10 with 00:42:30). Hard Driving is even more impressive... 01:05:13 for the speccy, and 01:07:51 for the C64s, er, attempt. Listen to that lovely SID chip go... Full discosure - i was a ZX specturm guy, a plus-2A to be precise, with its wopping 128KB of memory (which didn't impact the graphics, r-type was pure 48K only, no matter what generation of speccy you had). In the playground the C64 guys would always bang on about how much better its graphics were. What a multitude of sins the fuzzy household CRTs of the time used to hide. Plus the C64 was designed to play 2D scrollers in hardware with 8 sprites. The Speccy left it up to the programmers imagination.
Thank you for the disclosure, but your bias was so obvious regardless of it. For example, the C64 wasn't to blame for the static ring of death on R-Type - overstressed developers overwhelmed by the task at hand took care of that. Yeah, Hard Driving's C64 _attempt_ was infamously inferior to the Speccy's even back in the day, but tell you what... why don't you go take a side-to-side look at both the Spectrum and C64 versions of Accolade's Grand Prix Circuit to make an assessment of how _impressive_ the Speccy's _er_ , _attempt_ was on that case, comparatively speaking? Most people outgrow the playground as they grow old, but it's obvious that, in some instances, it's the playground that outgrows the person.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Yeah, fair point, i got a bit carried away. Apologies. There were good and laughably bad games on both platforms. I'll have a look at the Speccy version of Grand Prix Circuit and take my medicine.
Some of the better looking games here are for the 128k ('86) Speccy. If games as good looking as The Muncher ('88) or Doom ('97) had been around at launch (and if wishes were fishes) then the home computer market may have looked a little different in the UK for a few years to come.
У меня сейчас есть оба компьютера: Палитра Спектрума - это такой "костыль" к ЧБ архитектуре, где цвет формируется простым включением или отключением RGB сигнала (не всегда синхронно). К сожалению "чистые" кислотные цвета очень плохо передаются через композит или антенну: черный на красном и синем разплываются в неразличимую муть. Черный на голубом - мерзко мерцает. Черный с белым - плывут радугой. Инженеры же Commodore принципиально разрабатывали компьютер под композит (С64 не умеет RGB). Все цвета хорошо сочетаются без паразитных сигналов и собраны в приятную пастельную палитру. Но пользоваться ею могут только художники: неоправданное доминирование одного цвета на экране смотрится отвратительно.
ZX Spectrum: more resolution, less color, less frame rate, less sound in 48k games. C64: less resolution, more color, more frame rate ZX Spectrum only is better in resolution, BUT resolution could be the most important of all, if you use it well you can add a lot of personality, expression and atmosphere to a game. (In space gun this is very noticeable, the faces in Chase HQ, etc) frame rate, by the other hand, has a lot to do with playability. Finally, I think is a matter of taste.
@@stephenwhite506 That's right, especially on the TVs being used at the time, C64 developers used the 160x200 modes that offered twice the color density in preference to the 320x200 modes that are actually better on the C64 than on the Spectrum. As for color clash, that wasn't usually much of an issue on the C64, even at 320x200 resolution and two colors per 8x8 block, because of the C64's hardware sprites. Games on the C64 could, by choice, have been almost identical to those on the Spectrum, except with much less or more commonly zero color clash, as well as hardware-supported smooth scrolling. Developers just made different choices for whatever reasons, and I'm sure they had them. And I'm sure some might not apply today with the ultra-sharp monitors we use, as well.
The commodore gave us great graphics and sound but the Spectrum changed the world forever. Most of Britains top influential coders learnt as children thanks to the affordable ZX Spectrum. No Spectrum no influencial coders, tech boom, smart phones, internet of things, think about it. It annoys me that some c64 owners can be so small minded when it comes to these computers, all of this just because chase H.Q. is better on the Spectrum ;-)
carruthers100 Zzzzzzzz, seeing you all over in this comment section with ur c64 crusade against spectrum, really obvious and childishly silly. I said it before and i say it again, hater. If you would have looked a bit more indept on the background of his comment, you would see its true and also why its true. The speccy had a unique hardware set and design which brought out the best creative abilities in programmers. It was ideal for learning to program. A lot of succesful european programmers working for big game companies on modern games have confirmed what he says in his comment many times. But i guess you prefer to keep dwelling in the darkness and wshing c64 was gods only gift to this world.
Now we are getting silly. As iconic as the Speccy as, it was at the time mostly a UK phenomena, whereas the C64 was of course US based, but more global than the Speccy originally was. And while the Speccy will have helped start the careers of many successful UK programmers, the C64 had higher sales and will likely have helped start the careers of as many if not more successful programmers across the globe.
Lol at all the BUTT-HURT C64 Fantards getting angry because this little beauty made your beige bread holder look like the utter over-rated shite it always was. And as for the SID, it always sounded like some idiot making fart noises, or squelchy sounds in a microphone. The AY shat all over it. Just look at ChaseHQ, on the Spectrum it is actually recognisable as a cut-down ChaseHQ, and it was quite fast and playable. On the C64, it barely even moved. Infact, by the time the car actually started moving I had made myself a cuppa, lol. And the car, was it a car you were controlling, or a pancake ? Hard to tell from those god-awful looking 'brown' graphics. I remember back in the 80s, me and mate kept laughing our asses off everytime we heard a so-called top C64 SID tune. It was just, fart, squelch, schplish, flomp, flump, burp, schpissh, so bloody funny. Then we have the awesome R-Type. On Spectrum it WAS R-Type. On C64, it looked like a vibrator pushing a turd, lol. And that cassette multi loading, soooo slow. Speaking of loading on cassette, most C64 games, even those novaload, were sooo damn slow I could go shopping, come back and make a drink and something to eat, and it's still loading. All the while loading, we had the SID farting and squelching out a god-awful attempt at 80s synth pop. and the Spectrum was British, pure and 100%. None of that American shite. Designed, built, and sold in the UK. Now to see what the Spectrum can really do, search out Gandalf, or Bruniloa, Metal Man Reloaded, DreamWalker,El Stompo,Sun Bucket,MultiDude, Castlevania Spectral Interlude, Hop n Frog. Awesome little machine that is now iconic in British computer history. Oh and before the C64 idiots show up and mention Sid something blabla, and some other tired shite. Save your posts, I don't fucking care.
They are both representative computer of 80's, i love both. The speccy has better graphic but the c64 has better audio (i think that sid chip is unbeatable). I find the c64 version of most games more playable. If i could afford them at that time, i'd have bought both (i still have today 3 commodore 64).
This video shows some of the best looking games for the Spectrum. A complete comparison should include the best looking games in the C64 with their Spectrum counterparts. The Spectrum has more vivid colors, faster graphics (the C64 had to move more bytes), bigger sprites, and either more resolution or more colors. It makes up for the color clash and worse sound when used well. Not all games did it.
The C64 generally does not have to move more bytes. In fact, when using redefinable character mode at 320x200 resolution (higher than the Spectrum's 256x192 resolution), it has many fewer bytes to move for most operations, and hardware sprites likewise tremendously decrease the number of bytes being moved. And its lower-resolution multicolor modes are exactly the same in these respects. You must be thinking of the BBC Micro and/or Amstrad CPC, in which case you would be right. But this is not the case with the C64--it's quite the opposite, actually.
spectrum games look better not because the computer is superior to the parameters of the commodore 64, but because ported to the commodore is very bad, not using all the resources of this platform
I think at least some of the presented games are Spectrum original titles, that were ported to C64, so this comparison is a little unfair. Also - candy-like colors is not everything... whoever tried to play Golden Axe on ZX Spectrum, knows it is almost unplayable. For me, most annoying in Spectrum was lack of object transparency.
Besides above, compare ZX and c64 colors: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Conversion_to_greyscale_vs_desaturation-palette_demo.png Blue, Red and Yellow really wear their names on ZX.
I am amazed at the quality of the ZX Spectrum compared to the C64. I always thought the C64 was superior in everything. I believe that the ZXS was benefited by its resolution of 256x192 pixels (more square pixels) than that of the C64, 320x200 (more rectangular pixels), aspect that was highlighted by the square televisions of those years. The bright colors made the ZXS also superior to the washed out colors of the C64. The C64 was only superior in sound, a difference that was corrected with the appearance of the ZXS 128. Sorry, my bad english.
As if this very channel's name wasn't indication enough, it's quite obvious that the vast majority of games showcased here - with very few exceptions, like Savage, probably included for appearance's sake - have been biasedly cherry-picked in order to make the Speccy look as good as possible. That's why you won't find games like, say, The Last Ninja 2, Usagi Yojimbo, Grand Prix Circuit, Power Drift, Thunder Blade, Platoon, Dragon Ninja, Winter Games, Mission Impossible, Commando, Karateka, etcetera etcetera and etcetera on lists and videos like this one here. See, I LOVE the Speccy to death, but I'm just being as objective as possible, out of personal experience. As an old dude who was then and there and was lucky enough to spend many hours playing and enjoying almost every 8 and 16 bit computer made and sold in the 80's I can tell you that every one of them had its own charming 'personality', so to speak. They were unique in their own way and each of them had absolute gems that were exclusive to them or were just so good on one particular platform that other versions felt vastly inferior. Some of the racing games shown here, for example, are considered amongst the best in the Spectrum, like Chase H.Q. or Cisco Heat, which coincidentally happened to get very bad C64 versions. In fact, every racing game shown here got really crappy C64 versions, to be honest, which looks more than a bit suspicious to anyone who knows about this stuff. It all seems devised to make it look like the C64's hardware isn't cut for that particular gaming genre, but that would be total BS, as anyone who's personally experienced the excellence of Pitstop II, Super Cycle, Test Drive 1&2, Buggy Boy or the aforementioned Grand Prix Circuit, among many others, could assess. TS,DR: don't trust this comparative, at least not blindly. To any unbiased observer with some degree of experience in the subject matter it's obvious that the games shown here have been very carefully selected to skew the viewers' perception to the Speccy's favor. Which is a pity, because that wasn't necessary to begin with, but, you know, this is RUclips after all...
I know that I might sound a tad annoying, but I honestly think that any list of this kind should come with an explanation of the criteria used to select the entries shown on it. To be completely fair, I personally believe that such a list should be comprised of titles chosen completely at random from the huge amount of games that were versioned on both machines during their actual commercial lives - and unofficial versions, such as Doom, should be in all fairness excluded, in my opinion, as there might be several versions of them on each machine... as is the case, again, with Doom, so the compromise implied by the creator of the comparison video choosing which ones should be highlighted on it based on their own personal bias is a questionable decision in and of itself.
Never owned either but the games on Commodore just look dull as dishwater, even though it's clear the C64 is a more powerful computer. Having a good palette to work with really can make all the difference.
There's a RUclips video from (or about) SoundPaint which shows the orchestral capabilities of the Spectrum. The symphonies that can be played with just a humble beeper are beyond comprehension of the majority of programmers - particularly "pad" sounds/music. It sounds almost like a church organ or something. Quite reverential.
that's typical c64 vs zx spectrum comparision made by spectrum enthusiasts.. car racing games&isometrics.. wanna know the truth? have a look at "shadow of the beast" c64 and zx spectrum versions..
As a C64 nerd I completely agree. However BASIC on the Spectrum was far superior and more user friendly than on the C64. Not only that but the Spectrum was by FAR the best 8-bit takehome system for games involving VECTOR graphics (save for a vectrex console)
+Skeletor The Great Basic was fun on the spectrum, yeah, I used to enjoy making games with it. Although programming professional games was actually harder on the spectrum. But for vector games or games that otherwise didn't really need much colour it was great.
+Roberto Jaketti It's not the truth because it doesn't include any classic C64 games...literally not even one. What kind of comparison is that? It's like a football match, Germany vs Italy but for Italy it's their national team and for Germany it's just some random German people who can't even play football. Is that a fair match for Germany vs Italy regarding football ability? No, so this is not the truth, it's just bullshit.
A lot of C64 developers were under pressure to use multicolour mode (some publishers made it compulsory), since it produced nice looking screenshots for magazines and box-art.
gwishart it also looked better. Remember it looks completely different on a CRT from around 85. Also let’s be fair. Lots of spectrum bias here. Yes today it looks crisper but the color clash is HORRIBLE. It just looked weird. I remember people coming in to by a soectrum in stores and though there was some hardware error. Spectrum is fine for single screen monochrome games with not to much moving things. There is shines. Still people wanted color and smooth moving object. And also better sound. In today’s pixel sharp screens actually many c64 games looks worse and specimen games look better. Still that is static b
Stefan Holmqvist you’re underrating CRTs. Even with just the antenna plug you can very clearly see the difference between high res and high color. High res on the C64 is far more flexible than on the Speccy. There’s sprites, there’s hardware scrolling, and there is the ability to mix high and low res with some limitations. And then there is the not often used extended mode, that a few recent games has used to great effect.
Helge Frisenette I think you misread my comment greatly :) I didn’t say you can’t spot the difference between hires and (I assume you mean) multicolor? I stated that speccy hires games can look better than C64 MC games due to today’s screens being much sharper compared to the CRT back then you created sub pixel “higher” resolution doe to the color bleeding. So often the C64 games looked better on those CRT than a modern sharp screen. That was all I don’t underrate CRT I just base it on how it was on my and my friends CRT. Seeing is believing you know? ;) Regarding hires of C64 and spectrum Both have there ups and down. Spectrum bitmap hires is for sure quicker to manage than C64 bitmap hires due to faster CPU The C64 character based hires/MC mode is of course a different ball park in what you can do with animated backgrounds scrolling etc. one downside compared to speccy is that you can only have one color per character chosen and a fixed one for the background but speccy can choose those two colors freely per 8x8 tiles. That is why some spectrum conversations is slow . Trap door needed on the C64 to use hires BITMAP mode and it’s shows. A lot slower than on speccy due to the slower CPU So I agree hires character mode in C64 has many advantages over speccy. And some downsides also unfortunately :( I would say there is no real limitations to mix hires and MC apart from the issue to only be able to choose from the top 7 colors. (Not that It’s worse than spectrums even more garish colors) It’s more sad that you can only choose from those 7. I would have preferred an exclusive MC and mode where the bit that decided is the char is hired or MC could have been used instead to pick from the full 16 colors. Yeah it’s a pity with ECM. I actually did some mock-up test with using it. To bad I can’t upload images here. It really makes a different to be able to use colors freely. And it shows here how much more flexible spectrum hires is when managing colors than c64 hires. ECM is kind of color wise similar to spectrum hires. Plus of course the benefits of being a character mode. And the better color palette. But 64 characters is a tight budget. I tested splitting the screen in sections and bank switch between the 4 possible 64 char banks and you can make nice looking things then. Well with design restrictions that is. What new games used ECM? Would be nice to know as I have almost never seen any ECM games
Stefan Holmqvist well the Z80 is actually not that much faster than the 6510 in the 64 at those clocks, and it’s often offset by the sprites, scrolling and sound abilities of the 64. Something the Speccy has to work hard at. Current wisdom would say that with sympathetic skilled programmers, it’s probably at most something like one half times faster, often less, depending on what you are asking it to do. For a good example, look at the recent Ultimate conversions for the 64. A good clean bit map mode is something that is missed on the 64. You can however do a real good simulation with characters though. 128x128 has been use on a few occasions. Recently in the conversion of Yoomp. It’s not unfeasible to imagine a 256x128 character bit map mode, where the set is changed mid screen. Not that far off from Speccys resolution then. A real quick and interesting hack job for Commodore, for a more well rounded and less retarded 128, would have been to essentially just double the 64. A bit of SRAM between the processors would have allowed them to communicate and to run very fast in spurts when not accessing main ram. Simple analog mixing hardware would have allowed a few stereo mix options for the SID, and importantly either horizontal of vertical split/line interleaving between the two VIC II chips. Allowing 80 col mode with colours and an analog “alpha” fifty percent blend or “punch through” between the two screens for many more colours, sprites and transparency effects. For a quick 128, in about 84/85, until “the next big thing”, it could have been ideal. Considering the collossal difficulties they (or anyone else) had in making something substantially better that the VIC II, let alone overall *as* good for quite a few years after, in the same price bracket; the above outline, might not have been as stupid as it initially sounds. ECM games: csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=13&topicid=141103&showallposts=1
gameplay is always 598884848484848448 percent more important than graphics especially when it comes to arcade conversions...the closer to ARCADE perfect the gameplay is, the better the game...better graphics don't mean shit when the gameplay is nowhere near the arcade version
zx scpectrum was my 1st computer, then i moved onto a commodore Amiga and from that to a Pentium PC, in my humble opinion however the c64 is more capable, most of the games were better at the spectrum, i believe the coders have put more effort into those zx versions..
Actually the problem with the C64 was that the cpu had much less opp codes. The total combinations of opcodes was only about 150 (all possible combinations), while the ZX had more than 700,making the CPU more powerful.
@@johansteyn3756 ...but the C64 had dedicated hardware for sprites and scrolling, which dramatically lessened the CPU's workload. Most of the time, one could only notice the Spectrum's hardware advantage on non- sprite-based games, such as Star Wars, The Sentinel and such. For everything else, the blame for most cases of crappy C64 versions can be firmly put on the shoulders of crappy, overworked or crappy and overworked programmers, with precious few exceptions.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 the sprite generator was for sure a great advantage. Nevertheless, the washed out colours of the C64 just killed it for me. The C64 was designed to be a toy and I suppose it did well at that. Clive had a vision for the ZX to be a business machine and it was a terrible vision. Keeping that in mind, it is amazing what programmers were able to do with the ZX. The C64 was designed to be a consumer product. That is what put me off. The ZX had so much more to give for somebody that wanted to learn with programming etc. I programmed on the C64 and yt was really awful. If you did not buy Simon's basic, you could only use machine code, but even with that, the opcodes were severely limited. You had to poke to print on the screen. I wrote a small word processor on the C64 in basic and it was not fun to do.
Chriss Re both had pretty weird choices. But for me c64 is better as an mixed choice. Sure the red is full and the yellow looks dirty. But again. If you really wanted more punch it was just to adjust the color of the tv. Also C64 palette is very smartly built up with groups of luminous so you can make nice color transitions
We loved the speccy I think more for what we wanted and imagined but the truth is attribute clash, clunky, diabolical sound cos it had to slow cpu this why fast tiny beeps tryin to make notes. Speccy should have not been released with these problems in the first place. Then just think how good it would have been. Like c64.cpc etc non of which I had so im not bein like ios v windows.just how it was.
Spectrum had 128k ram, C64 had only 64k ram. Twice the storage..... yet for some reason the C64 games were faster and more playable with better sound :/
The Spectrum 128 was released in 1986 so most of the Spectrum games were 48k with nothing more than extra music and sound effects. It's a shame that the sales of the C-128k were so poor then we could have done a comparison of the 2 equals
@@TheFusedplug The C128 sold about 4-5 million units, which I'd hardly call poor. The problem is that for some reason this did not encourage many to develop software for it, especially games. I guess because of the C128's virtually full compatibility with the C64, they just wanted to make a single version of each game for both, the vast majority of the time. They could have made two versions, but wouldn't have sold any/many more copies. The problem was that the C64 was good enough.
The number of c64 zealots in these comments is quite sad! I mean how old are you lot, seriously! Don't seem to be any Speccy zealots, interestingly. Then again, any video that features versions of Hard Drivin and Chase HQ is a little bit cruel. Bit they happen to be great on the Speccy, so y'know. Maybe it would be fun to compare Turbo Charge with another fast Spectrum car game, I don't know. Maybe a video that chose some of the best for each system - then you'd just realise that the two machines just aren't comparable. They are totally different. Maybe if system 3 were good at making z80 games or Ultimate were good at the 6502, things would be different!
i owned first the c64 then the zx spectrum . games had best graphics in spectrum and best sound in c64 . In c64 some games were more playable but c64 owners had a computer that never learned to use
THESE games had better graphics on the Spectrum, 'cause all of them are so blatantly cherry-picked. Not a single hi-res C64 game in sight, and an overabundance of some of the chunkiest and universally panned racing games on the system pitted against their higher-res counterparts on a machine that's always been acknowledged for its natural advantage on that particular gaming genre because of its superior CPU. Unfair game. Also, many C64 users learned to use their computers, myself included.
What Spectrum limitations? The Spectrum was a superior system with 3 times more speed than Commodore and more screen resolution. Only limitation was Spectrum 48K had no sound chip only beep.
The spectrum's CPU ran at thrice the speed of the C64. That's the only aspect were its hardware was superior. On the other hand, the C64 had dedicated graphics and sound chips that vastly alleviated the CPU's workload. And the C64's max resolution was 320×200, while the Spectrum's was 256×192. Get your facts straight.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 The C64's CPU is significantly faster per MHz, though. At 1 MHz, it is roughly equivalent to a 2.5-3 MHz Z80, depending on the task. Hardware sprites and redefinable character modes take a huge load off of the C64's CPU, as well, which effectively makes the C64 faster for many/most games.
C64 had such low resolution! 8'C When a programmer gives his/her 100% and fixes the attribute-clashes and makes use of the AY sound chip (like Manic Miner did), the ZX Spectrum can come out on top!
How can one compare the mighty C64 with it's 64K Ram, hardware Sprites, Hardware scrolling and advanced custom hardware against the simple ZX Spectrum with it's 48K Ram and simple ULA. Well very easy, the Spectrum wins on more occasions than one would think. It also has a color called Red that can be seen unlike the C64. If you compare the ZX Spectrum 128K with AY sound chip, the comparisons are even closer. The other part is, 36 years on, the C64 has been pushed to the Max, yet the simple Spectrum keeps shining as new coding techniques are learned. Such as the Multicolour engines that offer more colors and eliminate color / attribute clash, such as this example. ruclips.net/video/rkn9IE6uXxA/видео.html
Spot on mate ... I tell you what the driving games on the Speccy 128k pretty much demolish the comparative releases on the C64. My friend actually sold his C64 and purchased a Spectrum 128 when he saw Outrun and Chase HQ running on my own Speccy +2
The colours and resolution are so much better on the Spectrum, I never noticed that in the day. Perhaps playing on old CRT TVs masked this, with their built-in aliasing. But the Speccy looks good to this day, whilst the C64, at least in these games looks washed out and blurry. But having said that, it's SID chip sounds are light years ahead and good even now, and it's smooth scrolling and hardware sprites made for a lot of games that weren't much good on the Spectrum- Graftgold games like Uridium, and things like Bounder. The Speccy seems to be far more alive now, though, partly due to it's home-brew image that no-ones managed to really bring to newer, overly complex machines.
woah. spectrum games in this comparison are looking much better than i expected.
I love the Speccy (my first love), but these particular games were surely chosen because they looked better on it? Many games looked much better on the c64, to the point where, in the case of c64 originals, it was difficult to make a Spectrum conversion. I was lucky enough to have both micros for a short while. Arcade conversions (of all things) were often a lot better on the Spectrum though, mainly because it had such an amazing wealth of programming experience and expertise behind it. I think that was the key to it all. But this compilation wasn't exactly intended to show off the c64 in my view.
It just goes to show that it's not just hardware capability that determines how good a game is. It is also programming ability and, in many cases, how much TIME the programmer has to complete their task/conversion. Certainly the C64 is the more capable machine from a hardware standpoint in virtually every way (except clock speed, whose advantage is lost on the Spectrum when the CPU has to do all the work of a VIC-type chip, etc). Games where sprites and sound are not used much do especially well on the Spectrum, such as "Elite".
@@mattlewis5095 Iwouldn't think so. C64 games could be more colourful, but they paid for that with a decreased resolution. It's why C64 games often looked "blocky". Speccy games had colour limitations, but a more vibrant colour palette and the graphics were of higher resolution, and more detailed. It ensured each had their own look.
Of course, clever programming could bypass the limitations on both, and there were other issues...the C64 SID chip for music and sprite capability, the Speccy was faster and more responsive, with better 3D capability.
@@edwardlafferty8796 Really though? Looking again, these are the some of the ugliest c64 games I've seen. Reading the angry intro too... this post starter seems like a pretty scolded chap tbh! Both computers have been stretched further in recent years, and both had pros and cons for sure. Commodore were an amazing company though, and both the c64 and the Amiga were two of the greatest computers ever made. They should be with us now, as should Sinclair in my opinion.
Had both - here's to the ZX Spectrum 🖕
Considering how MUCH simpler and cheaper the Speccy was compared to C64, it's really amazing what have been accomplished on it.
I remember always comparing the graphics between the Amstrad, Speccy and c64 in magazines. I had a speccy and used to cry at the comparisons between the Amiga and Speccy until i got an Amiga. Spent a hell of a lot of my time playing Speccy games though, great times.
i like a bit of both,i think some games are better on the specy and others on the comm.
The last Ninja in Commodore 64 are amazing
i love the colors of zx Spectrum .
I am a Spectrum fan. Never understood how come the colours of the 64 were so PALE. The sound however, I think the 64 was superior there.
@@Retsler54 True. Spectrum colours were just a lot more vibrant. I missed commodore's brown, though. On thr other hand, C64 didn't have red O.o
If I remember correctly, the C64 colours were pale on PAL systems. NTSC might look different aka better.
That North & South game on the Spectrum is an amazing achievement considering the limitations of the system. So much colour without any clash. Fantastic.
Spectrum wins on crisp sprites and graphics. Commodore 64 wins on sounds and music. PC at that time won on speed and timeframes. To me, Spectrum games always have had that feeling of "open world". Not sure how else to describe it.
It depends. The ZX Spectrum shows more detail and has more vibrant color, but C64 has far better framerates and actually has hardware sprites.
@@bud389 Yep- the C64 is slower, but has some seriously swish hardware sprites meaning it's very easy to get 50fps. That does happen on the Speccy, but only rarely.
The speccy all day long for me
C64 really had the Spectrum beat in the specs department. And in most side-to-side game comparisons it is better. That's not the say the Speccy was a slouch, especially when you consider the price difference back in the day. For the money, the Spectrum was the system of choice for a lot of people, because it was several times cheaper.
As a C64 guy growing up, we never had Spectrums here in North America (I live in Eastern Canada) The closest we had was the Timex Sinclair, which didn't really sell that well, and had a lot of compatibility issues with Spectrum games. However after playing the Spectrum via emulators (mostly through MAME/MESS) I really think it's an underrated platform. Especially for shoot 'em ups and racers. Most racers on the commie (save for Super Cycle and Turbo Outrun and a couple of others) were either way too easy, or they were completely unplayable. Vector graphics were also very weak on the C64 save for a few gems like Thrust and Mercenary.
The C64 had better graphics capability overall, and much better sound, but it had a very weak CPU. Also the speccy had no choice but to use 256x192 (with 2 colours per attribute block) where as the C64 provided a few choices including 320x200 with two colours per attribute block or 160x200 with four colours per attribute block. As a result speccy games often have higher resolution.
@@AlexEvans1 I never understood why C64 programmers didn't use more of 320x200 with attributes.
@@Mandrak789 It's too slow, basically. The C64's achilles heel was the VIC2 sharing speed with the CPU - so a potentially 2 Mhz computer (which would have been fairly nippy) had to be 1Mhz just by design.
Not that it mattered with that sprite hardware, but it certainly did matter when it needed to do anything else.
@@Mandrak789 because when they did the C64 ran like treacle in a freezer
speccy hard driving at 192x256: 01:05:13
Commie hard driving at 320x200: 01:07:51
Great video, love the Spectrum Doom music.
There is a lot to like about the Speccy's screen aesthetics but let us face it -- this is an unreasonable compilation, picking out some distinctly poor Commodore versions, and actually not any of the games that defined the system. To get the record straight, just look at The Last Ninja, Impossible Mission, Turrican, International Karate+, Wizball, Uridium... the list goes on an on.
I can already see the C64 getting into further struggles with some titles you mention there the 128k versions rub salt in the wounds with Target Renegade and although Uridium was on the 48 with no 128k version (that should be done one day) Uridium looks prettier on the Spectrum IMO and scrolls beyond expectations smooth as anything .. Spectrum games seem to stand the test of time even looking at The Way Of The Exploding Fist 1 + 2 the sprite detail has fared better on the Speccy it's all very wishy washy and scrappy on the C64 BUT the only colours I like on the C64 are the greens and the greys and sometimes the blues can be used to good effect but the rest of the colours are actually worse than the VIC 20 I've always stated that the Vic 20 would have been THE machine if it was boxed with a 64k RAM expansion it still had a 3 channel sound capability that has been made to do SID like stuff on the demo scene /homebrew games and the Vic 20 colours are as clear and bright as a bell
Whenever the C64's greatest games are mentioned it's almost always : Last Ninja, IK+ and Wizball but I've played Wizball on the Spectrum 128 and C64 the gameplay is great on both and the game physics work great on both it's only the infamous colour clash that is fully unleashed on Speccy Wizball but I was never bothered by CC it was a "pretty" flaw if ever there was one ok the C64 gets us on parallax scrolling but I have seen the Spectrum coded well enough to get around that too ..probably a good idea to do 128k Spec V C64 for some fierce threads :) It's all fun these playground arguments even in my 40's just can't get enough of them
carruthers100 i prefer the characters on c64 and the backgrounds on speccy.
carruthers100 i think you exaggerate a bit with things look terrible on speccy. Hater?
Yeah, Turrican is at the start of the video and a good example where the c64 version is better than the Speccy version. Aren't you a bit old to be a zealot?
@@TheFusedplug stopped reading after you said Uridium was better on the Spectrum...LOL
I looked at the first few games and it is obvious that this is going to be ZX Spectrum biased video. Respect for the size of the video. I had both computers and I thought the C64 was much better. I didn't know that the ZX had so many games done better.
Well of course... it's a ZX Spectrum based video channel 🙂
The Spectrum has shown that it could hold its own against the Commodore - in recent years it can even emulate the C64's SID chip with just the beeper alone, even producing awe inspiring symphonies, as well as showcase breathtaking demos.
Even the borders can be manipulated to use them as detailed play areas if coding is handled with the right sort of approach.
The Spectrum has only been limited by programming creativeness.
I wonder how long before more BORDER demos come forward?
@@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 haven't seen sid emulation on the speccy beeper, but that can't be good, the sid was a magical chip, the best sound chip on a 8 bit computer, even better than that on the ST. also, never seen a game that takes advantage of the 4mhz zilog, no game was faster on the speccy for obvious reasons due to lack of custom chips for gpu and sound. C64 was actually so good, that most of the 2D platform games were better on th C64 than on the ST, cause the ST didn't have sprites and scrolling supportl so it was always jerky. Also the Zilog was somehow slower than the C64 even in Basic...
@@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 Also, I see that Turican was recorded badly fro the c64, is smoother than that. Also the best game for the speccy SupeHangOn is the second game in the video, then Chase HQ which is good for the speccy...40 years on, still fanbois are rooting for their 8 bit machine :) Just need to run few game for the C64, to see that the ZX never stood a chance, play Mayhem in Monsterland, game over.
@@Corsa15DT interestingly, I remember seeing some (still) images of Mayhem In Monsterland, for the Spectrum (using dithering from recollection) - it looked VERY good.
Would look even better with colour switching every frame interrupt - but of course, that would require dedicated graphic design work.
If you're afraid to look at SoundPaint's video I understand :)
I once discarded my (first) Spectrum years ago, as I thought it couldn't do much.
I'd wrongly underestimated its true, *VAST* sound capabilities.
I even like the C64, but I suppose I'm biased because I suppose the British underdog.
That and it was less than half the price of the Commodore.
As for the ST, I don't think I ever used one, but I remember using my neighbour's Amiga back in around '88.
Really enjoyed that.
@@Corsa15DT Some games in this video are slower on the C64. And try Starglider, Starion and many similar games like Starstrike 2 (which was never converted to the C64 "for obvious reasons" aka 1 MHz CPU).
Carrier Command only got a 2D version for the C64 due to the lack of CPU speed.
Enough examples? 😉
Thanks a MILLION! Or fifty, at least. The ZX was superior in every case--colour palette and sprites. C64 had some terrific games, but in terms of graphical artistry and awesomeness... well, Speccy's the champ!!
Ah, nostalgia! Both computers were brilliant - and both had their share of absolutely amazing games (though very few of those are shown in this video for some reason). Here are some examples of games that really showed off what each computer could do:
C64
- Dropzone
- Uridium
- Turrican2
- Pistop 2
- Ghosts n' Goblins
- The Last Ninja
- Enforcer
- Myth
- Summer Games II
- Mayhem in Monsterland
Spectrum:
- Knight Lore
- Starstrike 3D
- I of the Mask
- Extreme
- Uridium (just as good as the C64 version - in a different way)
- Wec Le Mans
- Exolon
- Quazatron
- Gyron
- Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles
And that's just a few.... Great times!
hey man, you have compared 48k spectrum version of R-type without amazing sounds vs comodore's 64 with music. I think they are not the same :)
Nope. C64 is a mix of the arcade and katakis. Google and you will find out why :)
ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 should make a baby.
Too many bits per pixel with the more or less the same speed memory leads to choppy scrolling and flickering sprites.
Vince RusBro that’s the drunk bastard child. Worst of both worlds.
They did the CPC
The more you compare a zx spectrum with a similar one, I realize that nowadays, the ZX Spectrum is still alive and new things reappear every day with respect to it.
Spectrum games (particularly 128k versions) have dated much better IMO and time has not been so kind to the C64
miles Jackson it depends on the game. Especially gameplay is a lot smoother on the C64 but some spectrum game stills look better
@@TheFusedplug
Time hasn't been kind with people's biases neither, apparently.
Taking both machines' own characteristics into account and from an eminently artistic point of view, it's objectively impossible to claim that one has aged better than the other, as both are products of their Era - antiques, outdated machines by definition and going by the current standards. The only reasonable and fair way to assess the quality of their hardware is by doing so on a case-by-case scenario, judging each program by its own individual merits and taking each one's own peculiarities and context into consideration. Anything less than that would be unfair both to the engineers that created each machine and to the great, hardworking programmers and artists that made huge efforts to push their limits and turn their respective weaknesses into strengths as often as possible.
That's not a Spectrum-exclusive quality. New things reappear and new games are programmed for the C64, too, on a constant basis - as happens, too, with the Amstrad and MSX.
Well that's a veritable shit storm of comments. To be fair, both machines had positives and negatives. In this video the C64 had more negatives imo.
Let's remember here that the C64 was designed to play games and the Spectrum wasn't. If Clive had forseen "jet set fucking Willy" as he put it then perhaps he might have given the Speccy more oompf.
Anyway, good video, amazingly biased comments from C64 owners unwilling to admit the Speccy had plus points (high res, brighter more lively colours, and the AY chip). The homebrew scene on both machines is alive and producing quality games.
If we are to move forward then stop living is the past and shitting on each other choice of computer.
Speccy > C64 👍👍
You have stirred up a hornet's nest here :D
I see that many C64 fanboys can't reconcile that twice as cheap and weaker computer sometimes had much better looking games. The pain of the c64 fanboys is that they often laughed at Speccy.
Of course is know that C64 was a better 8bit computer. But personally, I couldn't convince myself to C64 - ugly, big pixels and colors. You had to look at the TV from 3 meters to know what's going on. But of course it's a matter of taste.
Good job MRG!
Preach it brother. I've poured myself a glass of Jack, it's 2:30 in the morning and I'm still watching this vid and reading the comments.
As you say, there's no getting around the simple fact that the C64 had better hardware and a lot of it's games just blew their Spec equivelants out of the water, but damn, after years of listening to C64 fans parading all that in front of us, watching two hours of the humble Spec cleaning house (mostly) against it's more powerful rival is a real joy. Pouring another out now, damn, where was this compilation thirty years ago, haha.
Very early I regretted the teamism from my younger years as a C64 & Amiga user. I would have liked to learn more about the different platforms. I see now the Spectrum had a lot going for it.
@@avenginglettuce Just wait till you get to the Hard Driving bit (01:04:30 - and watched at an equivalent time in the morning) - i nearly spat my Blue Nun out (not a euphemism).
ZX really owns this.
The video was engineered to that specific end, so yeah, nope.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 there are four sure cases the C64 has yet performance, but looking at those rectangular pixels at those washed out colours never did it for me.
Yes, the sprite generator was a great idea and the ZX's colour clash was a big limit, but it still looked better on the ZX.
A car game on the C64 in high res mode??? What could go wrong?
that was just lazy coding. The C64 had an awesome port of Buggy Boy
I was lucky enough to have access to both systems growing up. I owned a ZX Spectrum 48k, and my best friend had a bread in C64.
The speccy always seemed to have larger, brighter, better defined sprites than the C64, but often at the expense of a slower frame rate.
The C64 games usually looked more “chunky” but ran smoother.
Some games looked and played best on the Sinclair and others looked and played best on the Commodore. They almost universally sounded better on the C64 though, thanks to the awesome SID chip.
Having owned a ZX clone (TK90-X) and wishing that the C64 had been sold in my country, I have to say the obvious: On paper the C64 should NEVER lose on 2D action games to the Speccy, especially scrolling ones (3d is another matter). But bad programming happens. It used to happen all the time back then, there were just not enough skilled/experienced programmers to go around. The home computer and video game industry was still in it's infancy.
It happened all the time on the Speccy too, even as limited as the machine was there were some conversions we all knew that the machine could have done better.
Peace out.
I have alot of time for the ZX Spectrum in what it managed to pull off. A truly amazing computer which managed to go beyond its expectations.
The same goes for the C64 with its hardware enhancements and great sound chip.
But since the commodore machine came later I can only ask everyone to appreciate and admire quite rightfully the Spectrum with this comparison vid.
I originally owned an Amstrad CPC 464 way back then.
The C64 didn't "come later". Both were released the same year - 1982, regardless of when they hit the market on your country/region.
I only wish you were hones enough to say that you chose 50 games that present ZX spectrum 48K (and in two cases 128K) in great light. Quite a few of well now C64 turds are included and no ZX spectrum ones. Other than that, good showcase of what the pile of rubbers was capable of producing. If you used some Speccy exclusives it would look even better.
I like both, Specrum and C64 although I wish the C64 had a better colour pallette, that's something that always bugged me.
The arguments we had in class over these computers😂
Thanatos on Spectrum has a soundtrack from the first level of NES version of The Jurassic Park
Ага, кто-то пошутил ;-) В оригинале музыка только в заставке была.
both great machines with pros and cons. C64 did stuff better and so did the Speccy. I think the overall winner has to be the C64 but both machines had great games and their own distinct atmosphere and style. One thing I definitely notice is that certain Speccy owners are particularly salty in the same way some Atari ST owners talk through a filter of bs. I'm also surprised no great looking C64 games were shown. It's some 35 years on now and people are still consumed by this shit. Sad. A great time where just about all the 8bits had some edge or approach that could be utilised better than another. I loved playing the Speccy back when my friend brought his machine around because I got to play stuff the C64 wasn't suited to and I get why people love the system so much but because of how subjective the topic of what equals a better presentation, well you're always going to get a stalemate
The great thing is we get to play any of the systems now so just enjoy them. It's interesting to note that what speccy owners don't figure a lot of the time is that the C64 with all it's chunky and muted colour scheme, there was a deeply distinct atmosphere of it's own but it was very different. Same with the overly harsh 'ghastly' Amstrad palette which is gorgeous to many. One obvious advantage the C64 had was how well it threw stuff around in a much smoother way so it tends to be more impressive to a lot of people. I guess it's a chip on the shoulder for Speccy owners because the machine was often the target for ridicule. Most can agree these were great times at the very least and you felt lucky to own either looking back
When I think back to highlights on each machine I think of all the variously suited games. Impossible Mission or Uridium or Pitstop 2 on the C64 as shining examples of the type of games that simply outdid the Spectrum but then I think of the Knightlore which astounded me at the time and is more ideally suited here. Sabrewulf is probably my favourite game on Spectrum and has a visual charm you just can't get anywhere else. Games of a certain design just felt better on Spectrum because they were designed around the limitation but similarly the C64 was like having an arcade machine at times and made the spectrum a bit of a joke to many
great comment ! kudos !
It did have less memory remember, but some games were definitely better on the speccy, but both systems had ups and downs in games, the speccy had a charm to it and its was always the underdog really,but it has so many games in its back catalogue and still rising even today, as for the music on the 64, Have you heard AMC and Castlevainia, amazing tunes for a speccy!
@@stewsretroreviews I had an ST also so I'm used to how nice tunes can sound on that chip. Thing is the Speccy in some ways holds up a little better than the C64 as it has an almost artistic quality to it. I go between the two when playing these games because the experience is still always so unique on them. I never really stopped playing them to be honest and I'm glad they're still so respected
Appalling that they were happy for that version of Chase HQ on the C64 to be rolled out. Especially considering how much full games costed back then.
The god awful framerates and sprites on the Spectrum kills it for me. It has some pretty neat games, but wow is it hard to play something going at 4 frames a second. Also, I'm wondering why he didn't include Last Ninja 2 in this video, or his second video, one of the most popular games during that era?
When I went from the Spectrum to the C64 it felt like I'd had an 'upgrade' all round, especially in terms of colour. Looking back on it now, I much prefer the vibrancy and resolution of the Speccy. The C64 is way too blocky and the colour palette is washed out.
Brisbane 1994, the C64 colour palette is designed for CRT screens/tv sets where, you can increase colour saturation. Same for low res blocky graphics, it’s much less of an issue on old TVs with very hight dot pitch.
That’s why your memories remember great graphics on the C64. Never too late to get an old Commodore 1084s on ebay :)
@@ash1one
Sssshhhhh! This is all about feelings, man. Take your facts elsewhere.
;)
I guess some people missed the point of this comparison. This isn't about "which system is better", as the Spectrum was already the underdog as soon as it came out in 1982. This list makes a point in that, sometimes, the underdog made a great showing.
As I've found out later with the next superior Commodore machine (the Amiga), having better hardware by no means guaranteed better games. It's a fact of life, not the fault of any particular platform.
Well, I had a ZX Spectrum and later a C64. It's clear that in the comparison the're used particularly the older games, later ones made great improvement in the use of 8 bit hardware; and is when C64 made mayor difference.
I enyoyed and loved them both, and are in my heart!! but the low framerate of the Speccy makes the gaming experience much bounded.
Depends on the coders. Really. Some were better at Spectrum, some were better at c64. It is like all those discussions about video game music and "Adlib is better!" "No, Amiga!" "No, Roland!". It depends on how they were used.
An excellent video, just found this (and your channel) and loved it :)
Being a Speccy fanatic, i always wanted the Spectrum versions to be the best, but i think if you cast a critical eye, you can see each machine had strengths and weaknesses as well as the people who worked on the games. the real winners are the middle-aged 8bit gamers who can explore and choose the best of all worlds :D
Not a Speccy fan but looking at the video, I can say that most of the Spectrum versions are better
@@soundsofoscillators Most of the spectrum games in this video and the sequel video he did are obscure titles barely anyone has ever heard of, and seeing as the C64 had over 3,800 titles, it's not the difficult to find overlap between them and pick the ones the Spectrum emulated best.
The Muncher, Wec Le Mans, Bobsleigh? Where's "Cobra"? Where's "The Last Ninja"? Where's "Infiltrator"? Where's "Robocop"? Where's "Rambo: First Blood"? They're nowhere to be found since this guy was pretty clearly cherrypicking games he thought looked better on the ZX Spectrum. The lack of including the Last Ninja is especially evidence of this since it was a hugely popular game at the time, and the ZX Spectrum version is a laughing stock, as it's entirely in black and white with a god awful framerate compared to the colorful C64 version.
@@bud389 I totally agree, I meant that those particular games looks better on ZX Spectrum. As I said I'm not a Speccy fan or C64 fun, but I know enough about these two platforms to understand that if Speccy version looks better, it means that the devs gave all their best or C64 devs were lazy and just were slacking while developed the game :D Anyway, I agree that the author choosed not random games for the video
I had a Spectrum back then while literally everybody else I knew had a C64 ( and one guy had an MSX ). I thought the C64 was somehow superior, but in retroSpect ( no pun intended ) looking at those games nowadays, it's clear that the C64 had arguably a better soundchip ( arguably, because in a lot of games you could only have music or sfx, while on the Speccy you had both in most of the same games, thanks to the internal beeper ) , smoother hardware scrolling and sprites (but what good are those sprites when they look chunky as hell with those awkward rectangular pixels ? ) while the Spectrum had the better games overall. Higher res, bigger (non-hardware) sprites, better color palette ( but limited by color clashing and lack of beige ), and a somewhat faster processor ( 3.5 Ghz Z80 ) capable of handling smoother, faster vector graphics. Also monochromes, higher resolution games ( like isometric Knightlore etc. ) were always, undeniable faster on the Speccy and even had the whole 16 colors palette available for use in the non gaming area of the screen, while in hires mode the C64 only had 4 I believe. I tried lot of games recently after many, many years on both platforms on the same monitor, using the same controller/keyboard ( thanks to emulation ) and I can confirm that most multi-platform games were indeed better on the Spectrum. Plus it shipped with built-in basic and a good instruction/programming book , which gave birth to a generation of programmers that did some amazing, original things back then in order to push the system over its limits, and many went on to become big shots in the industry, with some still relevant today! Therefore in a nutshell, the C64 was a more mainstream ( in terms of worldwide recognition ) and flashier machine for shallow people with richer parents, easier pleased by flashy grafix/sounds and totally unable to recognize the over all better quality of the Spectrum system and the loving work of the dedicated community that continues to this day. Exclusives and badly ported games non withstanding.
Aren't you a bit old for this? They a both very different machines. Why not appreciate both?
Spectrum kicks ass! I never appreciated how much more playable the games are. There’s a few exceptions (Turican looks excellent on the c64, and runs very fast), but in general, given the choice of which to play, you’d chose the speccy version more often than not!
As a Spectrum owner and later on owning C64 as well I reckon the Spectrum (particularly 128k enhanced games) OWNS more playable games and the C64 although it owns a mere handful of games in comparison it owns them very well. I started my computer gaming life on a Vic 20 and I'd like to mention that even the Vic held its own a few times, for example JETPAC on the 8K/16K ram expanded VIC was quite possibly the best version out of the lot, ironically the Vic had nicer crisper colours generally than the C64 and I'm wondering just how well the Vic would have fared if it was released with a 64K ram pack instead of releasing the C64 as the sound capabilities although not SID still kicked some ass on that machine
VIC 20 had no hardware sprites, and no hires mode. And had lower resolution.
Dude I say this as an Atari user, you are doing....... God's work by humiliating C64 users lol!(Not the machine, I enjoy my freshly acquired C64. I just hate C64 users running their mouths for more than 40 years now, as if their home computing experience was the only valid one!).
I loved that you picked 50 main stream titles where the vibrant colors, high res and unique aesthetics of the humble Speccy couldn't be matched by the American micro.
The Speccy often wins because usually a higher resolution is used than on the C64, even though the C64 is capable of even higher resolution, as an option. Most C64 games have a lower resolution because the developers chose to have greater color density instead. But overall, the C64 still uses high resolution far more often than the Atari does, because quite frankly the Atari is really poor at high resolution, while the C64 is superior at it. It is even better than the Speccy at this, on a technical level, having higher resolution, a similar (actually slightly better) 8x8 attribute block system, and high resolution hardware sprites. So what I'm saying is that if the Speccy supposedly "humiliates" the C64 in this hand-picked comparison, then it humiliates the inherently lower-res Atari 8-bit even more. Additionally, in PAL, the Atari loses a lot of its color options, as many hues look the same as others, and they're all dull compared to the limited but far more vibrant colors of the Speccy, as well.
I suppose for you, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," but most Speccy owners would undoubtedly turn their noses up at your low-res, dull-colored Atari, and rank it below the C64 for this reason. At least the C64 could and sometimes did do hi-res well. And more of that could have been done because of the C64's capabilities, but just wasn't, by choice. Of course, Speccy owners are biased toward high resolution and vibrant, saturated colors because it's what their computer can do. It doesn't mean they're right, but you're the one implying that they are, and in doing so, you make the Atari look bad in comparison to both the Speccy and the C64. If you think C64 fanboys are annoying to Atari fanboys, then realize that it works both ways, especially these days with Atari fanboys running their mouths and showing their ignorance even more. 🙄
C64 great sound and music....more colours....but that lack of graphical resolution compared with the Spectrum just kills a lot games.
Or is that just me?
Yes, you're right but the failure of some games was also down to the programmers as well either trying to meet tight deadlines and cutting corners, inexperienced in something or just plain lazy. Some companies were more interested in getting the game out rather than getting it made and taking more time to get it polished up.
If games were rushed it would be on both platforms, though. Problem is when something was a conversion form one to the other, then the comparison isn't fair.
Then there's things like Doom where it took much more clever programming to get it onto the C64 whereas it was perfectly possible on the Speccy so it's not really meaningful to compare to two.
I love the fact that there's no answer, ultimately. They are just too different.
I agree. The Spectrum wasn't really a thing here in North America (I live in Canada). But a LOT of the official arcade conversions on the C64 (especially a lot of the AMERICAN ones were utter shit) There were SOME exceptions such as the EUROPEAN version of Bionic Commando and Green Beret, as well as Zaxxon, but there were a lot of horrible conversions like Bomb Jack (which had great music, but the gameplay was utter shit. In fact, I think I preferred the C64 Bomb Jack clone called Bombo to the C64 version of Bomb Jack in terms of gameplay. Luckily I had a friend who had a BBS, and ended up getting a lot of the European versions. There were a FEW US conversions that were better (the US version of Street Fighter comes to my mind), but for the most part, if the game was produced in both NTSC and PAL, the PAL version was usually better.
If you want to get technical, I think the Amstrad CPC had the best color pallet of the 8-bit micros, too bad the games were often hampered by horrible scrolling and lazy coding though
The C64 was at it's best with SHMUPS
However, for plaformers the Spectrum has the edge, especially for single-screen platformers
@3:30 If you take those sprites out of context nobody would ever guess that they are supposed to be motorbikes.
C64 sux
@2:30 if you take that brain fart noise out of context nobody would ever guess that it's supposed to be the sound of motorbike engines.
@@alkolove1
You know what else _sux_ ? Childish biases. Both computers had their own strengths, weaknesses and unique charms. It's been almost 40 years, more than enough time to get over the school playground mentality, don't you think?
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Спектрум круче в играх, как правило. С64 - в демосценах. Тут и обсуждать нечего.
@@alkolove1
A rule that you completely made up on the spot. That's not a sound argument, just a sound bias.
I had and have still got both systems in nearly all their forms, 16k, 48k, 48k+, 128, 128+2, 128+2a and a 128+3. C64, C64c, 128, 128D, in my opinion the Commodore is superior, however when it comes to racing games the spectrum is far better. Everything else the commodore excels.
Thanks for the video. Definetely the Commodore's versions are 100% better ;) . Thanks a lot for clarifying. What I don't understand is why didn't you use a Commodore Pet for the comparison. Very nice that you use a Commodore emulation that will never give the right palette colors or the right SID sound and nice that you select those games improved for the Spectrum 128k version only.
The C64 version of Chase HQ sure wasn't. The spectrum version was far better as it was the closest to the original Arcade as far as gameplay is concerned
Skeletor The Supreme
and GAMEPLAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN GRAPHICS any time
Yes this is a shamefully biased Spectrum fanboy video. The Spectrum just cannot compete with awesome C64 games like Creatures, Last Ninja 2, IK+, Speedball 2, Barbarian II, Tusker, Platoon, Ghouls n Ghosts, Winter Games, Turrican II. It's a total No Contest. They seem at least a generation apart.
@@rootykazooty351 I think the point is more that given the Speccy was half the price, wasn't even designed with graphics in mind and had no additional hardware to help with sprite scrolling, it's amazing just how many times it not only stood up to but actually bested it's better specced rival. Of course the C64 has plenty of superior games, but this video right here, this video is a celebration of where the humble Speccy shone brightest. :)
@@avenginglettuce
That's your interpretation of it. I see no celebration of nothing here, just an attempt to create or reinforce biased views.
A lot of the time, the devs either did a good job or bad job on either system I would say. I'm Speccy all the way, and just how many games were made for it, its well into the thousands I would say, and still increasing in 2020😊. Amazing when you think about it.
Reason why on Speccy games are looking better is shape of pixel. Speccy pixel is square but C64 pixel is rectangle. The same problem had attari.
ZX WIN for The muncher. Very good
I was big in to gaming back then, I know graphically back then the C64 was better because it was easier to compare, but today there is not much difference and to me I was having a much better time playing the spectrum instead of thinking about I wish I had better graphics and sound, I remember having a list of spectrum games and counted 3000 of them when I was in a shop called Woolworths when I was 12 almost every game I played I enjoy a lot I had 1000 games that I played fully by the time I left school at 16, my C64 friends were more in to how a game looked than actually getting on and completing all the games I preferred the C16+4 because I played the games and enjoyed them a lot. to me it was about playing lots of games not looking at them mostly for the graphics and not really playing any games. Most of the games I enjoyed growing up are never talked about because I was a gamer, none gamers played mostly branded commercial games where I got stuck in and played the games to discover that the best games are never the most popular game or the best reviewed, I would spend days or weeks on each game without moving to another game that’s how we played back then, I remember having more fun on the spectrum than even the Xbox, I did not play a game for 5 minutes then move on to the next every game got fully played and no reviewer could tell me what game was good or bad because I I would get fun out of games people did not like
I was very similar. It's always a good thing to be "being your own man"
We were kids, it's as simple as that. Everything you mentioned has next to nothing to do with the quality of the games you played or the hardware you played them on, but the way you felt and experienced things back then and the way your brain embedded those experiences into the complex structure that conforms your unique personality.
Besides that, those kids you remember as being more into graphics and stuff in clear contrast with your utter appreciation of gameplay and such? Not to burst your bubble, but they probably felt the same way about you - and none of you were right. Self-perception is a double-crossing, backstabbing bastard, believe me. Regarding memories, sometimes is a good idea to season them a bit with a dash of experienced common sense and a pinch of objectivity.
Graphics on the Spectrum looks better because the lack of color is compensated by dithering and shading.
Right away I saw that some of the C64 versions use the low-res (160 pixel) modes to get more colors, but the high-res versions on the ZX Spectrum look better because they are crisper and, surprisingly, more colorful & vivid. So visually, I liked the Spectrum stuff more often. The C64 can be manipulated todo roughly the same things as the ZX using the high-res modes (of both sprites & graphics), but it would be more work for the programmer. And the ZX had the advantage of a cpu with more sophisticated opcodes... So the playing field was much more level than I once thought.
James Carpino you forgot spectrum has no real sound chip. Hardware sprites or hardware scroll.
For more static games with monochrome and graphic style spectrum for sure shines. When things start to move or need a more realistic look... not so much
Very few games here are better in the C64 .Those that are better, are by far. But the C64 was an expensive machine. If you were to load by tape forget it. Speccy , even 48k was much more worth its money. You have to understand though , that here the games compared are mostly from the 128k spectrum versions . That's why you get to have great music and fx , in most of what you see here. If you had to compare the 48k -which is what most people had- as speccy was the computer of the poor, then, the comparison would not be the same. In anycase the C128 actually was underdeveloped and sooooo expensive that comparing anything with it has no actual ground. Speccy 128 was still less the price of a C64 , less professional but far more computer than any of its age. The amount of people still investing into it after so many years proves my point. Only Amiga , the classic model , ever reached such status in the minds of users here in Greece. Great machines all by their own rights including Amstrads , but you have to realize that games were up to the programmer and not the machine. If you had a good coder for a game in Speccy but not for Commodore and a mediocre for Amstrad , that's what you would get.And vice versa of course.
Colors and especially sound are huge wins for the Commodore. Graphically I would say the Speccy has it on many of these games. The "Savage" game came across most bizzare on the Speccy though.
The C64 coloirs are not vibrant and are quite dull.
Do people making comparisons here even realize the main difference: Spectrum games are ALL running in bitmap mode, whereas C64 is mostly text mode with hardware sprites. That explains the difference.
ZX and C64 are VERY different machines, so its hard comparing them. I would like to see C64 being pushed in hires/bitmap mode, but it was rarely the thing. C64 games used lot of multiplexed HARDWARE sprites and HARDWARE character mode, supported by VIC chip. ZX had none of those. Not mentioning superb SID sound.
But C64 was sloppy in hires mode, because of slow CPU and chips had no special features to show using bitmap. Then again, because it was utilized quite rarely, coders had no experience to do it better. Would be interesting to see proper hires game on C64, supported with lot of hardware sprites and some tricks C64 has in its sleeves. As it is, C64 was always slower in 3D gaming, and smart games requiring raw CPU power. ZX had better and faster CPU. C64 has 33% more RAM, and considering that hires was not used usually - it makes for 50% more RAM used for code/data, plus chips taking the load of visuals and sound. Really, hard to compare.
This kind of comparison does not make sense. We are comparing GAMES.
the ZX machine is a cheap, not specifically task oriented machine , while the C64 is really a game console with a lot of features useful for games, selled as a computer.
It's not a secret, for example that the VIC-II chip is on the C64 because commodore created initially this chip to be used in arcade machines and when failed to sell for this purpose they used it on c64.
Similar situation goes to SID.
The 6502 on C64 @ 1Mhz is slower (even if not so slow as spectrum fans claims) than the z80 @3.5Mhz on spectrum. Most compare the clock speed as the reason of being the zx faster than C64 CPU, that while is true , it is not the real reason of the difference in speed, because clocking a 6502 @ 1-1,5Mhz is common as clocking a z80 @2,5-4Mhz in the era because those cpus use the clock very differently (internally)
Some of these speccy looks better but sometime speccy too slow and game feel not as good. (Zx81 sp48 sp128 owner)
Doom ZX complet kick ass from Doom C64 :P
Doom ZX don't work on stardard spectrum, need a rusian version Pentagon or Scorpion.
Hang-on 48K beeper tune created by Andrew Owen
soundcloud.com/cheveron/hang-on
1:06:04 Hard Driving should have been called, Drunk Driving.
I didn't realise how woeful the graphics were on doom C64, even made the spectrum version look real..
Turrican?! Really? I beg to differ.
I didn't play many Spectrum games, but I would be the first to admit that R-Type was excellent.
But the fact is, my fondest memories of 8-Bit gaming are strongly tied to the music - Wizball, Last Ninja, Robocop, Lightforce......those games simply would not have been the same without their amazing soundtracks. And they were great games too of course.
A childhood without CREATURES 1 & 2, Retrograde, Turbo Outrun (with Maniacs soundtrack), Ghouls'n'Ghosts (without Tim Follin soundtrack), Delta, Hammerfist, Armalyte, Last Ninja 1-3........no thanks.
PS. My parents weren't rich. Most teenagers back then scrimped and saved to get a 64 - then shared games with a network of friends. The Amiga was always WAY out of my reach.
I like both machines in their own way but I agree it seemed Spectrum tilted. Nothing wrong with that as I had the Spectrum myself. Some great titles often made for crap on the other system, Hard Drivin and Super Hang On for example. But also the other way round we had Kung-Fu Master, Nemesis, Salamander, Out Run Europa etc which were equally shite on the spectrum compared to great guns on the C64.
You had a Spectrum, didn't you?
cazzozzo and you didnt, right?
gameplay is always 598884848484848448 percent more important than graphics
especially when it comes to arcade conversions...the closer to ARCADE perfect the gameplay is, the better the game...better graphics don't mean shit when the gameplay is nowhere near the arcade version
@@theyamo7219 and the Spectrum mostly had a balance of good graphics and gameplay
It looks like gamma is suboptimal for C64 recording. Too C64 looks atari-2600-ish in stuff that cannot do natively, or when lots of memory is required for high-res full-color graphics (resolution halving), while spectrum can do very little natively, except one thing, high-pixel-res low-color-res at low cpu/mem usage (color attributes).
The C64's 320x200 (compared to the Spectrum's 256x192) graphics modes also have 8x8 color attributes to reduce the amount of memory used by the frame buffer. You seem to be thinking of the BBC Micro or Amstrad CPC, which are not like the C64 or the Spectrum. However, the C64 also offers 160x200 modes with more colors available in each 4x8 attribute block, and it was the choice of most developers to use these modes instead. They didn't have to, though. The C64 has plenty of RAM for any of its graphics modes--64.5K - 2 bytes, to be exact, rather than the 38K that many think it is limited to (that is only for BASIC code and variables).
How can the C64 version of Chase HQ be so bad ? It's like they tried to port the Speccy version over usually not a good idea. This is Ocean we're talking about right ? The C64 does driving games fine usually doesn't it?
Buggy Boy, Stunt Car Racer, Grand Prix Circuit, Turbo Outrun, Out Run Europa, Powerdrift and Chase HQ II were all superior on C64. Pitstop II, REVS+ Turbocharge that the spectrum didnt get were great games. I'm glad I owned both machines so I could play a decent version of Enduro Racer.
Spectrum ports were not always bad though. Skool Daze and Fairlight were both Spectrum ports and I played both of those like a motherfucker. Same for Head Over Heels.
@@lordevyl8317 Isometric games were always the dogs nads on the Speccy
Well, at least Turrican has both boots in the same colour on C64...
My word, what an eye opener this video is - some of the C64 'efforts' would have shamed an Atari 2600. Yes Super Hang on, I'm looking at you (watch from 0:03:18 and try not to laugh...). As for R-Type, the C64 didn't even bother making the iconic 'ring of death' rotate (compare 00:39:10 with 00:42:30).
Hard Driving is even more impressive... 01:05:13 for the speccy, and 01:07:51 for the C64s, er, attempt. Listen to that lovely SID chip go...
Full discosure - i was a ZX specturm guy, a plus-2A to be precise, with its wopping 128KB of memory (which didn't impact the graphics, r-type was pure 48K only, no matter what generation of speccy you had). In the playground the C64 guys would always bang on about how much better its graphics were. What a multitude of sins the fuzzy household CRTs of the time used to hide. Plus the C64 was designed to play 2D scrollers in hardware with 8 sprites. The Speccy left it up to the programmers imagination.
Thank you for the disclosure, but your bias was so obvious regardless of it. For example, the C64 wasn't to blame for the static ring of death on R-Type - overstressed developers overwhelmed by the task at hand took care of that. Yeah, Hard Driving's C64 _attempt_ was infamously inferior to the Speccy's even back in the day, but tell you what... why don't you go take a side-to-side look at both the Spectrum and C64 versions of Accolade's Grand Prix Circuit to make an assessment of how _impressive_ the Speccy's _er_ , _attempt_ was on that case, comparatively speaking?
Most people outgrow the playground as they grow old, but it's obvious that, in some instances, it's the playground that outgrows the person.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Yeah, fair point, i got a bit carried away. Apologies. There were good and laughably bad games on both platforms. I'll have a look at the Speccy version of Grand Prix Circuit and take my medicine.
Spectrum is cheaper and more colorfull, his res details, but C64 sound is great! But ZX sound not bad too!
Some of the better looking games here are for the 128k ('86) Speccy. If games as good looking as The Muncher ('88) or Doom ('97) had been around at launch (and if wishes were fishes) then the home computer market may have looked a little different in the UK for a few years to come.
С цветовой палитрой у c64 явно было всё печально.
У меня сейчас есть оба компьютера:
Палитра Спектрума - это такой "костыль" к ЧБ архитектуре, где цвет формируется простым включением или отключением RGB сигнала (не всегда синхронно). К сожалению "чистые" кислотные цвета очень плохо передаются через композит или антенну: черный на красном и синем разплываются в неразличимую муть. Черный на голубом - мерзко мерцает. Черный с белым - плывут радугой.
Инженеры же Commodore принципиально разрабатывали компьютер под композит (С64 не умеет RGB). Все цвета хорошо сочетаются без паразитных сигналов и собраны в приятную пастельную палитру.
Но пользоваться ею могут только художники: неоправданное доминирование одного цвета на экране смотрится отвратительно.
@@volo870 Ого, какой развёрнутый комментарий! Спасибо за ответ 👌
ZX Spectrum: more resolution, less color, less frame rate, less sound in 48k games.
C64: less resolution, more color, more frame rate
ZX Spectrum only is better in resolution, BUT resolution could be the most important of all, if you use it well you can add a lot of personality, expression and atmosphere to a game.
(In space gun this is very noticeable, the faces in Chase HQ, etc)
frame rate, by the other hand, has a lot to do with playability.
Finally, I think is a matter of taste.
256X192 is actually a LOWER resolution than 320x200. The 64 could do 2 colours per 8x8 char but it was rarely used as colour clash is crap.
@@stephenwhite506 That's right, especially on the TVs being used at the time, C64 developers used the 160x200 modes that offered twice the color density in preference to the 320x200 modes that are actually better on the C64 than on the Spectrum.
As for color clash, that wasn't usually much of an issue on the C64, even at 320x200 resolution and two colors per 8x8 block, because of the C64's hardware sprites. Games on the C64 could, by choice, have been almost identical to those on the Spectrum, except with much less or more commonly zero color clash, as well as hardware-supported smooth scrolling. Developers just made different choices for whatever reasons, and I'm sure they had them. And I'm sure some might not apply today with the ultra-sharp monitors we use, as well.
The commodore gave us great graphics and sound but the Spectrum changed the world forever. Most of Britains top influential coders learnt as children thanks to the affordable ZX Spectrum. No Spectrum no influencial coders, tech boom, smart phones, internet of things, think about it. It annoys me that some c64 owners can be so small minded when it comes to these computers, all of this just because chase H.Q. is better on the Spectrum ;-)
"oh look at me, I can make a sprite by brute forcing data statements and using a read statement" Bullshit, give me a 48k anyday
carruthers100 Zzzzzzzz, seeing you all over in this comment section with ur c64 crusade against spectrum, really obvious and childishly silly. I said it before and i say it again, hater. If you would have looked a bit more indept on the background of his comment, you would see its true and also why its true. The speccy had a unique hardware set and design which brought out the best creative abilities in programmers. It was ideal for learning to program. A lot of succesful european programmers working for big game companies on modern games have confirmed what he says in his comment many times. But i guess you prefer to keep dwelling in the darkness and wshing c64 was gods only gift to this world.
carruthers100 haha, i lost you? I know its hard to deal with facts, so easy way out right?
Now we are getting silly. As iconic as the Speccy as, it was at the time mostly a UK phenomena, whereas the C64 was of course US based, but more global than the Speccy originally was. And while the Speccy will have helped start the careers of many successful UK programmers, the C64 had higher sales and will likely have helped start the careers of as many if not more successful programmers across the globe.
Lol at all the BUTT-HURT C64 Fantards getting angry because this little beauty made your beige bread holder look like the utter over-rated shite it always was.
And as for the SID, it always sounded like some idiot making fart noises, or squelchy sounds in a microphone. The AY shat all over it.
Just look at ChaseHQ, on the Spectrum it is actually recognisable as a cut-down ChaseHQ, and it was quite fast and playable. On the C64, it barely even moved. Infact, by the time the car actually started moving I had made myself a cuppa, lol. And the car, was it a car you were controlling, or a pancake ? Hard to tell from those god-awful looking 'brown' graphics.
I remember back in the 80s, me and mate kept laughing our asses off everytime we heard a so-called top C64 SID tune. It was just, fart, squelch, schplish, flomp, flump, burp, schpissh, so bloody funny. Then we have the awesome R-Type. On Spectrum it WAS R-Type. On C64, it looked like a vibrator pushing a turd, lol. And that cassette multi loading, soooo slow.
Speaking of loading on cassette, most C64 games, even those novaload, were sooo damn slow I could go shopping, come back and make a drink and something to eat, and it's still loading. All the while loading, we had the SID farting and squelching out a god-awful attempt at 80s synth pop.
and the Spectrum was British, pure and 100%. None of that American shite. Designed, built, and sold in the UK.
Now to see what the Spectrum can really do, search out Gandalf, or Bruniloa, Metal Man Reloaded, DreamWalker,El Stompo,Sun Bucket,MultiDude, Castlevania Spectral Interlude, Hop n Frog.
Awesome little machine that is now iconic in British computer history.
Oh and before the C64 idiots show up and mention Sid something blabla, and some other tired shite. Save your posts, I don't fucking care.
They are both representative computer of 80's, i love both.
The speccy has better graphic but the c64 has better audio (i think that sid chip is unbeatable).
I find the c64 version of most games more playable.
If i could afford them at that time, i'd have bought both (i still have today 3 commodore 64).
I what way can the speccy have better graphics? c64 have same as spectrum it better. Only thing spectrum had was a more saturated color palette...
This video shows some of the best looking games for the Spectrum. A complete comparison should include the best looking games in the C64 with their Spectrum counterparts.
The Spectrum has more vivid colors, faster graphics (the C64 had to move more bytes), bigger sprites, and either more resolution or more colors. It makes up for the color clash and worse sound when used well. Not all games did it.
You say the Spectrum had "Faster graphics", yet the framerate on the C64 is head and shoulders above the Spectrum.
The C64 generally does not have to move more bytes. In fact, when using redefinable character mode at 320x200 resolution (higher than the Spectrum's 256x192 resolution), it has many fewer bytes to move for most operations, and hardware sprites likewise tremendously decrease the number of bytes being moved. And its lower-resolution multicolor modes are exactly the same in these respects. You must be thinking of the BBC Micro and/or Amstrad CPC, in which case you would be right. But this is not the case with the C64--it's quite the opposite, actually.
spectrum games look better not because the computer is superior to the parameters of the commodore 64, but because ported to the commodore is very bad, not using all the resources of this platform
I think at least some of the presented games are Spectrum original titles, that were ported to C64, so this comparison is a little unfair. Also - candy-like colors is not everything... whoever tried to play Golden Axe on ZX Spectrum, knows it is almost unplayable. For me, most annoying in Spectrum was lack of object transparency.
Besides above, compare ZX and c64 colors: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Conversion_to_greyscale_vs_desaturation-palette_demo.png
Blue, Red and Yellow really wear their names on ZX.
I am amazed at the quality of the ZX Spectrum compared to the C64. I always thought the C64 was superior in everything. I believe that the ZXS was benefited by its resolution of 256x192 pixels (more square pixels) than that of the C64, 320x200 (more rectangular pixels), aspect that was highlighted by the square televisions of those years. The bright colors made the ZXS also superior to the washed out colors of the C64. The C64 was only superior in sound, a difference that was corrected with the appearance of the ZXS 128. Sorry, my bad english.
As if this very channel's name wasn't indication enough, it's quite obvious that the vast majority of games showcased here - with very few exceptions, like Savage, probably included for appearance's sake - have been biasedly cherry-picked in order to make the Speccy look as good as possible. That's why you won't find games like, say, The Last Ninja 2, Usagi Yojimbo, Grand Prix Circuit, Power Drift, Thunder Blade, Platoon, Dragon Ninja, Winter Games, Mission Impossible, Commando, Karateka, etcetera etcetera and etcetera on lists and videos like this one here.
See, I LOVE the Speccy to death, but I'm just being as objective as possible, out of personal experience. As an old dude who was then and there and was lucky enough to spend many hours playing and enjoying almost every 8 and 16 bit computer made and sold in the 80's I can tell you that every one of them had its own charming 'personality', so to speak. They were unique in their own way and each of them had absolute gems that were exclusive to them or were just so good on one particular platform that other versions felt vastly inferior.
Some of the racing games shown here, for example, are considered amongst the best in the Spectrum, like Chase H.Q. or Cisco Heat, which coincidentally happened to get very bad C64 versions. In fact, every racing game shown here got really crappy C64 versions, to be honest, which looks more than a bit suspicious to anyone who knows about this stuff. It all seems devised to make it look like the C64's hardware isn't cut for that particular gaming genre, but that would be total BS, as anyone who's personally experienced the excellence of Pitstop II, Super Cycle, Test Drive 1&2, Buggy Boy or the aforementioned Grand Prix Circuit, among many others, could assess.
TS,DR: don't trust this comparative, at least not blindly. To any unbiased observer with some degree of experience in the subject matter it's obvious that the games shown here have been very carefully selected to skew the viewers' perception to the Speccy's favor. Which is a pity, because that wasn't necessary to begin with, but, you know, this is RUclips after all...
I wish getting a Spectrum to work in the US wasn't such a pain in the ass
I know that I might sound a tad annoying, but I honestly think that any list of this kind should come with an explanation of the criteria used to select the entries shown on it.
To be completely fair, I personally believe that such a list should be comprised of titles chosen completely at random from the huge amount of games that were versioned on both machines during their actual commercial lives - and unofficial versions, such as Doom, should be in all fairness excluded, in my opinion, as there might be several versions of them on each machine... as is the case, again, with Doom, so the compromise implied by the creator of the comparison video choosing which ones should be highlighted on it based on their own personal bias is a questionable decision in and of itself.
Never owned either but the games on Commodore just look dull as dishwater, even though it's clear the C64 is a more powerful computer. Having a good palette to work with really can make all the difference.
The Speccy games looked and usually played a lot better than the C64 ones, but by God did they sound awful.
There's a RUclips video from (or about) SoundPaint which shows the orchestral capabilities of the Spectrum.
The symphonies that can be played with just a humble beeper are beyond comprehension of the majority of programmers - particularly "pad" sounds/music.
It sounds almost like a church organ or something.
Quite reverential.
not sure if a fair comparison. cannot be that C64 are all so megapixxeled. how could this be?
that's typical c64 vs zx spectrum comparision made by spectrum enthusiasts.. car racing games&isometrics.. wanna know the truth? have a look at "shadow of the beast" c64 and zx spectrum versions..
Or Wizball...or the Last Ninja games lol. The difference is so big it's scary..it's like the two machines are from different generations.
As a C64 nerd I completely agree. However BASIC on the Spectrum was far superior and more user friendly than on the C64. Not only that but the Spectrum was by FAR the best 8-bit takehome system for games involving VECTOR graphics (save for a vectrex console)
+Skeletor The Great Basic was fun on the spectrum, yeah, I used to enjoy making games with it. Although programming professional games was actually harder on the spectrum. But for vector games or games that otherwise didn't really need much colour it was great.
This video is truth, you probably would accuse the uploader of cherry picking, but for saying sotb is the truth is also kinda cherry picking right?
+Roberto Jaketti It's not the truth because it doesn't include any classic C64 games...literally not even one. What kind of comparison is that? It's like a football match, Germany vs Italy but for Italy it's their national team and for Germany it's just some random German people who can't even play football. Is that a fair match for Germany vs Italy regarding football ability? No, so this is not the truth, it's just bullshit.
Conclusion: More C64 games should have used High Res mode.
A lot of C64 developers were under pressure to use multicolour mode (some publishers made it compulsory), since it produced nice looking screenshots for magazines and box-art.
gwishart it also looked better. Remember it looks completely different on a CRT from around 85.
Also let’s be fair. Lots of spectrum bias here. Yes today it looks crisper but the color clash is HORRIBLE. It just looked weird. I remember people coming in to by a soectrum in stores and though there was some hardware error.
Spectrum is fine for single screen monochrome games with not to much moving things. There is shines. Still people wanted color and smooth moving object. And also better sound.
In today’s pixel sharp screens actually many c64 games looks worse and specimen games look better. Still that is static b
Stefan Holmqvist you’re underrating CRTs. Even with just the antenna plug you can very clearly see the difference between high res and high color.
High res on the C64 is far more flexible than on the Speccy. There’s sprites, there’s hardware scrolling, and there is the ability to mix high and low res with some limitations.
And then there is the not often used extended mode, that a few recent games has used to great effect.
Helge Frisenette I think you misread my comment greatly :)
I didn’t say you can’t spot the difference between hires and (I assume you mean) multicolor?
I stated that speccy hires games can look better than C64 MC games due to today’s screens being much sharper compared to the CRT back then you created sub pixel “higher” resolution doe to the color bleeding. So often the C64 games looked better on those CRT than a modern sharp screen. That was all
I don’t underrate CRT I just base it on how it was on my and my friends CRT. Seeing is believing you know? ;)
Regarding hires of C64 and spectrum Both have there ups and down. Spectrum bitmap hires is for sure quicker to manage than C64 bitmap hires due to faster CPU
The C64 character based hires/MC mode is of course a different ball park in what you can do with animated backgrounds scrolling etc. one downside compared to speccy is that you can only have one color per character chosen and a fixed one for the background but speccy can choose those two colors freely per 8x8 tiles.
That is why some spectrum conversations is slow . Trap door needed on the C64 to use hires BITMAP mode and it’s shows. A lot slower than on speccy due to the slower CPU
So I agree hires character mode in C64 has many advantages over speccy. And some downsides also unfortunately :(
I would say there is no real limitations to mix hires and MC apart from the issue to only be able to choose from the top 7 colors. (Not that It’s worse than spectrums even more garish colors)
It’s more sad that you can only choose from those 7. I would have preferred an exclusive MC and mode where the bit that decided is the char is hired or MC could have been used instead to pick from the full 16 colors.
Yeah it’s a pity with ECM. I actually did some mock-up test with using it. To bad I can’t upload images here. It really makes a different to be able to use colors freely. And it shows here how much more flexible spectrum hires is when managing colors than c64 hires. ECM is kind of color wise similar to spectrum hires. Plus of course the benefits of being a character mode. And the better color palette. But 64 characters is a tight budget.
I tested splitting the screen in sections and bank switch between the 4 possible 64 char banks and you can make nice looking things then. Well with design restrictions that is.
What new games used ECM? Would be nice to know as I have almost never seen any ECM games
Stefan Holmqvist well the Z80 is actually not that much faster than the 6510 in the 64 at those clocks, and it’s often offset by the sprites, scrolling and sound abilities of the 64. Something the Speccy has to work hard at.
Current wisdom would say that with sympathetic skilled programmers, it’s probably at most something like one half times faster, often less, depending on what you are asking it to do.
For a good example, look at the recent Ultimate conversions for the 64.
A good clean bit map mode is something that is missed on the 64.
You can however do a real good simulation with characters though.
128x128 has been use on a few occasions. Recently in the conversion of Yoomp.
It’s not unfeasible to imagine a 256x128 character bit map mode, where the set is changed mid screen.
Not that far off from Speccys resolution then.
A real quick and interesting hack job for Commodore, for a more well rounded and less retarded 128, would have been to essentially just double the 64.
A bit of SRAM between the processors would have allowed them to communicate and to run very fast in spurts when not accessing main ram.
Simple analog mixing hardware would have allowed a few stereo mix options for the SID, and importantly either horizontal of vertical split/line interleaving between the two VIC II chips. Allowing 80 col mode with colours and an analog “alpha” fifty percent blend or “punch through” between the two screens for many more colours, sprites and transparency effects.
For a quick 128, in about 84/85, until “the next big thing”, it could have been ideal.
Considering the collossal difficulties they (or anyone else) had in making something substantially better that the VIC II, let alone overall *as* good for quite a few years after, in the same price bracket; the above outline, might not have been as stupid as it initially sounds.
ECM games: csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=13&topicid=141103&showallposts=1
Colors better from Commodore, detalize graphic from Speccy, I think.
gameplay is always 598884848484848448 percent more important than
graphics
especially when it comes to arcade conversions...the closer to ARCADE
perfect the gameplay is, the better the game...better graphics don't
mean shit when the gameplay is nowhere near the arcade version
zx scpectrum was my 1st computer, then i moved onto a commodore Amiga and from that to a Pentium PC, in my humble opinion however the c64 is more capable, most of the games were better at the spectrum, i believe the coders have put more effort into those zx versions..
Actually the problem with the C64 was that the cpu had much less opp codes. The total combinations of opcodes was only about 150 (all possible combinations), while the ZX had more than 700,making the CPU more powerful.
@@johansteyn3756
...but the C64 had dedicated hardware for sprites and scrolling, which dramatically lessened the CPU's workload. Most of the time, one could only notice the Spectrum's hardware advantage on non- sprite-based games, such as Star Wars, The Sentinel and such. For everything else, the blame for most cases of crappy C64 versions can be firmly put on the shoulders of crappy, overworked or crappy and overworked programmers, with precious few exceptions.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 the sprite generator was for sure a great advantage. Nevertheless, the washed out colours of the C64 just killed it for me. The C64 was designed to be a toy and I suppose it did well at that.
Clive had a vision for the ZX to be a business machine and it was a terrible vision. Keeping that in mind, it is amazing what programmers were able to do with the ZX.
The C64 was designed to be a consumer product. That is what put me off. The ZX had so much more to give for somebody that wanted to learn with programming etc. I programmed on the C64 and yt was really awful. If you did not buy Simon's basic, you could only use machine code, but even with that, the opcodes were severely limited.
You had to poke to print on the screen. I wrote a small word processor on the C64 in basic and it was not fun to do.
Never liked colors on the spectrum allways looked messedup.
Adjust your TV lol
Gameplay always trumps graphics
Chriss Re both had pretty weird choices. But for me c64 is better as an mixed choice. Sure the red is full and the yellow looks dirty. But again. If you really wanted more punch it was just to adjust the color of the tv.
Also C64 palette is very smartly built up with groups of luminous so you can make nice color transitions
We loved the speccy I think more for what we wanted and imagined but the truth is attribute clash, clunky, diabolical sound cos it had to slow cpu this why fast tiny beeps tryin to make notes. Speccy should have not been released with these problems in the first place. Then just think how good it would have been. Like c64.cpc etc non of which I had so im not bein like ios v windows.just how it was.
Spectrum had 128k ram, C64 had only 64k ram. Twice the storage..... yet for some reason the C64 games were faster and more playable with better sound :/
The Spectrum 128 was released in 1986 so most of the Spectrum games were 48k with nothing more than extra music and sound effects.
It's a shame that the sales of the C-128k were so poor then we could have done a comparison of the 2 equals
@@TheFusedplug The C128 sold about 4-5 million units, which I'd hardly call poor. The problem is that for some reason this did not encourage many to develop software for it, especially games. I guess because of the C128's virtually full compatibility with the C64, they just wanted to make a single version of each game for both, the vast majority of the time. They could have made two versions, but wouldn't have sold any/many more copies. The problem was that the C64 was good enough.
The number of c64 zealots in these comments is quite sad! I mean how old are you lot, seriously! Don't seem to be any Speccy zealots, interestingly.
Then again, any video that features versions of Hard Drivin and Chase HQ is a little bit cruel. Bit they happen to be great on the Speccy, so y'know. Maybe it would be fun to compare Turbo Charge with another fast Spectrum car game, I don't know. Maybe a video that chose some of the best for each system - then you'd just realise that the two machines just aren't comparable. They are totally different.
Maybe if system 3 were good at making z80 games or Ultimate were good at the 6502, things would be different!
yes, there are c64 zealots, but there are also speccy zealots...
Zx is best. :)
Fuck me! Doom and enduro racer and into the eagles nest were truly wank on the c64!
Commodore 64 больше на Денди похож. Спектрум, это что-то своё.
i owned first the c64 then the zx spectrum . games had best graphics in spectrum and best sound in c64 . In c64 some games were more playable but c64 owners had a computer that never learned to use
THESE games had better graphics on the Spectrum, 'cause all of them are so blatantly cherry-picked. Not a single hi-res C64 game in sight, and an overabundance of some of the chunkiest and universally panned racing games on the system pitted against their higher-res counterparts on a machine that's always been acknowledged for its natural advantage on that particular gaming genre because of its superior CPU. Unfair game.
Also, many C64 users learned to use their computers, myself included.
Интересная идея сравнить два компьютера
What Spectrum limitations? The Spectrum was a superior system with 3 times more speed than Commodore and more screen resolution. Only limitation was Spectrum 48K had no sound chip only beep.
Then the 128 came along and butt hurt a lot of C64 owners
The spectrum's CPU ran at thrice the speed of the C64. That's the only aspect were its hardware was superior. On the other hand, the C64 had dedicated graphics and sound chips that vastly alleviated the CPU's workload. And the C64's max resolution was 320×200, while the Spectrum's was 256×192. Get your facts straight.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 The C64's CPU is significantly faster per MHz, though. At 1 MHz, it is roughly equivalent to a 2.5-3 MHz Z80, depending on the task. Hardware sprites and redefinable character modes take a huge load off of the C64's CPU, as well, which effectively makes the C64 faster for many/most games.
C64 had such low resolution! 8'C
When a programmer gives his/her 100% and fixes the attribute-clashes and makes use of the AY sound chip (like Manic Miner did), the ZX Spectrum can come out on top!
The C64's higher-resolution mode was 320×200, whereas the Speccy's was 256x192, so, no, when comparing both, it didn't.
How can one compare the mighty C64 with it's 64K Ram, hardware Sprites, Hardware scrolling and advanced custom hardware against the simple ZX Spectrum with it's 48K Ram and simple ULA. Well very easy, the Spectrum wins on more occasions than one would think. It also has a color called Red that can be seen unlike the C64. If you compare the ZX Spectrum 128K with AY sound chip, the comparisons are even closer.
The other part is, 36 years on, the C64 has been pushed to the Max, yet the simple Spectrum keeps shining as new coding techniques are learned. Such as the Multicolour engines that offer more colors and eliminate color / attribute clash, such as this example. ruclips.net/video/rkn9IE6uXxA/видео.html
Spot on mate ... I tell you what the driving games on the Speccy 128k pretty much demolish the comparative releases on the C64. My friend actually sold his C64 and purchased a Spectrum 128 when he saw Outrun and Chase HQ running on my own Speccy +2
Nice engine. Now make it scroll 60fps smoothly...
miles Jackson agree. Add som color and I will buy it..
The colours and resolution are so much better on the Spectrum, I never noticed that in the day. Perhaps playing on old CRT TVs masked this, with their built-in aliasing. But the Speccy looks good to this day, whilst the C64, at least in these games looks washed out and blurry.
But having said that, it's SID chip sounds are light years ahead and good even now, and it's smooth scrolling and hardware sprites made for a lot of games that weren't much good on the Spectrum- Graftgold games like Uridium, and things like Bounder.
The Speccy seems to be far more alive now, though, partly due to it's home-brew image that no-ones managed to really bring to newer, overly complex machines.
MYTH history in the making should be on the list: it looks soooo much better on ZX