Back in the day, I always envied the C64 owners for the great sound and often superior games. In hindsight, I actually prefer the Spectrum graphics for their crispness and vibrant colors.
It's obvious that the C64 was superior in many ways than the ZX Spectrum, from the full keyboard to the superior sound and free of attribute clash, but at the end of the day these two machines were designed with very different ideas as to what the finished product would be intended for. The Spectrum was a simple little computer built down to a price with most of the arcade stuff stripped out, regardless, in many ways it punched above it's weight in terms of programmability and addictive qualities, even today people are still writing games for it and probably discovering newer and interesting ways to code on it. The C64 showed us how well a game could sound and play but even it had it's limitations, the colour palette is, in my view a bit bland, the colours all seem brown or grey. As for the spectrum, the fact that these games compete favourably to the C64 version at all is testament to just what sort of machine you can buy with a budget about 4 times smaller than C64
@@wallalo uridium on spectrum looks crisp clear graphics. Uridium on the c64 washed out colors and REALLY blocky. Esprit on spectrum was excellent and so much fun.
Smoother animation too. No character jumps. And I never had 64, just a Spectrum. That's not to say the Spectrum didn't have smooth games, of course it did. But even today, some modern games use character jumps, such as Monkey J.
False, 320x200x16 colors 2 graphic modes with 4 colors each character, sprites and scroll hardware, no color clash with sprites. Spectrum got 256x192 and 8 colors palette +2 level bright, you cant combine 1 color with bright 0 in a character with another color with bright 1. I got both and is a fucking nightmare make good graphics, smooth scroll, and sprites with color clash, omg, the only one think i like in spectrum is the cpu, but dont got more special chips like c64. Of course youn need a CRT to see correctly 8 bits machines, i bet you play on emulators in a led screen. :D
ZX had fantastic and vibrant color palette, unlike washed out and dull C64. I don't care for number of colors or higher resolution. I can always tell from afar of what is a c64 game as it looks like a wrong color profile viewed on uncalibrated screen.
I will NEVER regret buying the ZX Spectrum+2. Best value for money 8bit ever ! Really the C64 had a so much better sound and they did nothing with it, such a pitty.
I used to somewhat "envy" the better, more colorful screenshots of other computers on the back cover of my cassette tapes back in the day. When I got into emulation many years ago, I was able to play the same games, with the same joystick, on the same PC attached to the same monitor and speakers and compared myself Amstrad, Spectrum and C64's and in most cases the Spectrum version was surprisingly better. The fewer colors that the Speccy has look better, higher res graphics and smoother gameplay. In some cases Amstrad games had exactly the same graphics of the Spectrum but with actual less colors, as the higher res mode of the CPC only had a palette of 4 colors that needed to be swapped around. Other CPC games looked better but played slower. Looking at C64 games with fresh eyes in this contest, the only redeemable quality was the amazing SID music, but even then, a lot of games had to sacrifice sounds FX in order to play music, while on 128K Speccy ( or 48K with an AY expansion chip ) you had both. The C64 blocky graphics, brownish washed out color palette and squished sprites ( at least it had those ) aged really, really bad IMO. I understand there are exceptions on all three platforms, and the way we see it largely depends on our nostalgia feelings, based upon which system we had growing up for sure. And thanks for including at 16:27 the BEST version of COMMANDO ( even better than the Arcade LOL ) 😁
@carruthers100 Are we really arguing in 2020 with high speed internet on our $800 smart phones over which one was better ? Well then... I love it, just like in the good old times, I feel like I'm 11 again 😁 It's incredible we still care about our childhood toys, we'll take our 8bits war to our graves 😉
@@ArmandQ. You're right, it's bizarre that we're still arguing about our ancient micros that have no relevance whatsoever in today's world, especially considering the Spectrum is clearly the superior system in every way, always has been and always will be!
My opinion is very biased for sure, but I think ZX graphics is much clear and pixel-perfect because of higher resolution. And color clashing does not matter!
We can see improovement of higher res just in Uridium..that's what i like the most 'bout speccy..even in monochrome,point of details ingame objects are pretty god,while c64 compromises loss of details trough collors..you can see that from Commando..in c64 you have hills w green grass at top(nice detail) but hardly you can see where bullets are going..but,in speccy,good control of shooting but..well,no need to point the obvious..btw,fancy is to see how devs back then were creative w only few bytes..you have to admit that..48 or 64kb? that's one sms today..amiga500 stud no chance w those two guys
I have fond memories of the Spectrum and, as an artist myself, I appreciate a lot what many developers accomplished back then with what they had to work with, but, please, let's put some things in perspective, for once: those are games, and, as such, their first and foremost quality should be playability. And I'm not trying to berate the Spectrum, again, as I really love and have the fondest memories of it, but the fact is that most of the time - and the examples shown on this video are proof of it - the C64 versions of the same game ran WAY smoother than the Speccy's and so they were, as a consequence, more responsive too. Which is, by the way, a fundamental point that lots of people in this very comment section are ignoring, burying their cognitive dissonance under heaps of tiresome iterations of the same 'washed-out colors and chunky pixels' argument. Which also highlights, too, the - sadly too common - popular ignorance about the C64's capabilities to work with a variety of graphic modes that was, admittedly, rarely put to good use, although the existence of many notable games, like 'Robocop' or 'Platoon', that showcased them brilliantly should be a good enough reminder of what the C64 was able to achieve, hardware-wise, whenever a developer with the proper knowledge and enough time to put it to good use set their mind on it.
I had both systems back in day and I remember playing Buggy Boy on the Spectrum, I eventually got it for the Commodore (on cartridge!) and played it much more on the C64 as it loaded up instantly, however I always thought the C64 version was very much like something I would play on an Atari 2600...
I've had a look at both of these videos now. I was a Speccy owner, so wouldn't be familiar with certain C64 issues like graphical modes. I am impressed how the speccy stood up in terms of how the games looked and animated. The C64 certainly had a more arcade look in terms of colours and graphical styles, but perhaps fell down in the larger sprites which while of different colours, looked less detailed. The C64 graphical appearances were to me more often cartoonish, and the car driving games all looked very similar. On looking back there is maybe less between the two than I might have thought! I'd like to have seen compared things like Robocop and Head over Heels...
The C64 has an option for either hi-res or more colors on the backgrounds and sprites independently (for each sprite individually, as well). It was the developers who decided that they would rather have more colors (per area) nearly every time. Part of the reason could have been the fuzzy TVs they were using for monitors instead of the ultra-sharp monitors/TVs we use today.
As a speccy owner there was only a few games I was really jealous of. Kung fu master, so jealous. Rambo 2, paperboy and ghosts n goblins. Other than that my speccy was the tits man.
@@seraphinberktold7087 if I had a way of playing zx spectrum games I'd definitely give it a go I just dont know where I can play them. I'm not really that good on computers so I dont even know where so start.
@@paulmidgley8040 Do you have an android smartphone? Spectacular for Android is a really easy emulator to use. Even if adding your own games is a step too far for you, or comes with a nice collection and you can buy more which are ready to use.
One thing most ppl forget is that for a Speccy game to be anything but shit, required a great deal of skill from the programmer due to the poor hardware, not like today with Gb of RAM. REAL SKILL.
These are all 48kb games... There were no different games for 48kb and 128kb, apart from a few exceptions like Where Time Stood Still. The 128kb version had the same graphics as 48kb.
Counting only RAM and no chip registers, the C64 has precisely 64.5 kB - 2 bytes = 66046 bytes available. Yes, this took some bank switching, but it's very simple, not a complex trick. A single-byte write to a single I/O port "turns off" the ROMs and gives the game the full memory minus the 2 kB I/O map. A different value written to the port gives access to all 64 kB of main RAM (minus the attribute RAM). The RAM in the I/O area is always accessible to the VIC-II graphics chip, so it's a good place to store the character set and sprite definitions. Then it can be left alone, with no more bank-switching required, and all of the remaining RAM available to the CPU. I don't know where you got that 42 kB figure from, but it means nothing on the C64. Perhaps it refers to the 38 kB limit for BASIC code and named variables, but this is no issue for machine language, and even in BASIC it is possible to use the rest of the memory with the POKE, PEEK, LOAD commands, along with small machine language subroutines.
I think my issue with these videos is that these games are more or less the best the spectrum has to offer which also have a C64 version... The other way around would list better games.
The list has the likes of Uridium, Buggy Boy, IK+, Commando..., which are largely considered among the best C64 games (and C64 having one of the best, or the best version of the game across all ports). With over 20k released games between the two machines, no '50 game list' will ever look 'complete', regardless of criteria for selection. But at least this list tries to cover quality games across both systems rather than distinctly pick worst cases for one or the other.
You are kidding right ? A speccy comparing to a C64 ?? You only highlighted the ONLY game's that were better on the spectrum. The 128k Spectrum came out at the same time as the Atari ST and Amiga b.t.w , what a joke !
Even though I'm a Speccy fan I cannot say that C64 games were ugly. That is just an exaggeration and simply wrong - which also applies if you generally praise C64 games over Spectrum ones. Target Renegade in the video shows some nice usage of mulitple hi-res sprites to depict Renegade and his foes. With a limited number of things to move around, the C64 could overcome his low-res limitations. The ZX Spectrum usually shines with games that require CPU power. Starion or Carrier Command are good examples here. And there is no way something like Starstrike II could be done on a standard C64. Thus only a CPC port exists.
You are missing out on CPU power which is an aspect where the C64 cannot keep up with the ZX Spectrum. Carrier Command e.g. was never done in 3D on the C64. Starstrike II does not even exist on the C64 due to lack of CPU power. The end result thus is 2:2 which is absolutely fair IMHO.
Fan boys video. Actually some spectrum games looked great but played crap. Specific graphic modes on the C64 have not been used and apart from a few coders of the day they did not really use the c64 pallete effectively. I cannot see the spectrum getting anywhere close in terms of graphics on games like mayhem in monsterland. Have you also seen the Games Series from Epyx, the spectrum just could not do that.
@@seraphinberktold7087 Exactly, 3D is where the Spectrum really humbles the C64, and is the reason why I love both platforms, but I think that the BBC Micro holds amazing potential for smooth graphics and 3D too
@@stellartutoring2544 I wouldn't say the Spectrum "humbles" the C64 in terms of CPU power, as its CPU performs most operations in fewer cycles. Running at 1 MHz, it's about equivalent to a 2.5-3 MHz Z80, and with most games it gets a lot of help from the VIC-II graphics chip that more than compensates for the difference. The BBC Micro runs essentially the same CPU at 2 MHz, and it is most definitely faster than the Spectrum's Z80, which runs at 3.5 MHz.
Yo tenía el zx spectrum y un colega el Commodore 64. Siempre discutíamos por cuál era mejor pero siempre supe que el spectrum era una putísima mierda para pobres, el mío.
![[TAS] SNES Castlevania: Dracula X "best ending" by McBobX in 13:48.34](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rcPR8p8WJ_I/mqdefault.jpg)
Back in the day, I always envied the C64 owners for the great sound and often superior games. In hindsight, I actually prefer the Spectrum graphics for their crispness and vibrant colors.
It's obvious that the C64 was superior in many ways than the ZX Spectrum, from the full keyboard to the superior sound and free of attribute clash, but at the end of the day these two machines were designed with very different ideas as to what the finished product would be intended for. The Spectrum was a simple little computer built down to a price with most of the arcade stuff stripped out, regardless, in many ways it punched above it's weight in terms of programmability and addictive qualities, even today people are still writing games for it and probably discovering newer and interesting ways to code on it. The C64 showed us how well a game could sound and play but even it had it's limitations, the colour palette is, in my view a bit bland, the colours all seem brown or grey. As for the spectrum, the fact that these games compete favourably to the C64 version at all is testament to just what sort of machine you can buy with a budget about 4 times smaller than C64
The Spectrum graphics are so damn unique. When done well, it looks stunning, even with color clash. Some of those sprite animations are fantastic.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even if it sucks :-)
@@wallalo Uridium for instance. Sorry but it looks crap on the c64. Also Turbo Esprit.
@@mizmera uridium? mmmh, we have very different eyes... turbo esprit was a crap, what about turbo charge?
@@wallalo uridium on spectrum looks crisp clear graphics. Uridium on the c64 washed out colors and REALLY blocky. Esprit on spectrum was excellent and so much fun.
The Spectrum always had better detailed graphics as the 64s were very blocky I remember. But it did much better with sound and music.
Smoother animation too. No character jumps. And I never had 64, just a Spectrum. That's not to say the Spectrum didn't have smooth games, of course it did. But even today, some modern games use character jumps, such as Monkey J.
False, 320x200x16 colors 2 graphic modes with 4 colors each character, sprites and scroll hardware, no color clash with sprites.
Spectrum got 256x192 and 8 colors palette +2 level bright, you cant combine 1 color with bright 0 in a character with another color with bright 1. I got both and is a fucking nightmare make good graphics, smooth scroll, and sprites with color clash, omg, the only one think i like in spectrum is the cpu, but dont got more special chips like c64.
Of course youn need a CRT to see correctly 8 bits machines, i bet you play on emulators in a led screen. :D
ZX had fantastic and vibrant color palette, unlike washed out and dull C64. I don't care for number of colors or higher resolution. I can always tell from afar of what is a c64 game as it looks like a wrong color profile viewed on uncalibrated screen.
I will NEVER regret buying the ZX Spectrum+2. Best value for money 8bit ever !
Really the C64 had a so much better sound and they did nothing with it, such a pitty.
what do you mean they did nothing with it?
I used to somewhat "envy" the better, more colorful screenshots of other computers on the back cover of my cassette tapes back in the day. When I got into emulation many years ago, I was able to play the same games, with the same joystick, on the same PC attached to the same monitor and speakers and compared myself Amstrad, Spectrum and C64's and in most cases the Spectrum version was surprisingly better. The fewer colors that the Speccy has look better, higher res graphics and smoother gameplay. In some cases Amstrad games had exactly the same graphics of the Spectrum but with actual less colors, as the higher res mode of the CPC only had a palette of 4 colors that needed to be swapped around. Other CPC games looked better but played slower. Looking at C64 games with fresh eyes in this contest, the only redeemable quality was the amazing SID music, but even then, a lot of games had to sacrifice sounds FX in order to play music, while on 128K Speccy ( or 48K with an AY expansion chip ) you had both. The C64 blocky graphics, brownish washed out color palette and squished sprites ( at least it had those ) aged really, really bad IMO. I understand there are exceptions on all three platforms, and the way we see it largely depends on our nostalgia feelings, based upon which system we had growing up for sure. And thanks for including at 16:27 the BEST version of COMMANDO ( even better than the Arcade LOL ) 😁
@carruthers100 Are we really arguing in 2020 with high speed internet on our $800 smart phones over which one was better ? Well then... I love it, just like in the good old times, I feel like I'm 11 again 😁 It's incredible we still care about our childhood toys, we'll take our 8bits war to our graves 😉
@@ArmandQ. You're right, it's bizarre that we're still arguing about our ancient micros that have no relevance whatsoever in today's world, especially considering the Spectrum is clearly the superior system in every way, always has been and always will be!
My opinion is very biased for sure, but I think ZX graphics is much clear and pixel-perfect because of higher resolution. And color clashing does not matter!
We can see improovement of higher res just in Uridium..that's what i like the most 'bout speccy..even in monochrome,point of details ingame objects are pretty god,while c64 compromises loss of details trough collors..you can see that from Commando..in c64 you have hills w green grass at top(nice detail) but hardly you can see where bullets are going..but,in speccy,good control of shooting but..well,no need to point the obvious..btw,fancy is to see how devs back then were creative w only few bytes..you have to admit that..48 or 64kb? that's one sms today..amiga500 stud no chance w those two guys
I have fond memories of the Spectrum and, as an artist myself, I appreciate a lot what many developers accomplished back then with what they had to work with, but, please, let's put some things in perspective, for once: those are games, and, as such, their first and foremost quality should be playability. And I'm not trying to berate the Spectrum, again, as I really love and have the fondest memories of it, but the fact is that most of the time - and the examples shown on this video are proof of it - the C64 versions of the same game ran WAY smoother than the Speccy's and so they were, as a consequence, more responsive too. Which is, by the way, a fundamental point that lots of people in this very comment section are ignoring, burying their cognitive dissonance under heaps of tiresome iterations of the same 'washed-out colors and chunky pixels' argument. Which also highlights, too, the - sadly too common - popular ignorance about the C64's capabilities to work with a variety of graphic modes that was, admittedly, rarely put to good use, although the existence of many notable games, like 'Robocop' or 'Platoon', that showcased them brilliantly should be a good enough reminder of what the C64 was able to achieve, hardware-wise, whenever a developer with the proper knowledge and enough time to put it to good use set their mind on it.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Solid 3D on the Spectrum was much faster, smoother and responsive than on the C64
I had both systems back in day and I remember playing Buggy Boy on the Spectrum, I eventually got it for the Commodore (on cartridge!) and played it much more on the C64 as it loaded up instantly, however I always thought the C64 version was very much like something I would play on an Atari 2600...
I've had a look at both of these videos now. I was a Speccy owner, so wouldn't be familiar with certain C64 issues like graphical modes. I am impressed how the speccy stood up in terms of how the games looked and animated. The C64 certainly had a more arcade look in terms of colours and graphical styles, but perhaps fell down in the larger sprites which while of different colours, looked less detailed. The C64 graphical appearances were to me more often cartoonish, and the car driving games all looked very similar. On looking back there is maybe less between the two than I might have thought! I'd like to have seen compared things like Robocop and Head over Heels...
The C64 has an option for either hi-res or more colors on the backgrounds and sprites independently (for each sprite individually, as well). It was the developers who decided that they would rather have more colors (per area) nearly every time. Part of the reason could have been the fuzzy TVs they were using for monitors instead of the ultra-sharp monitors/TVs we use today.
Last Ninja would have been a good comparison
As a speccy owner there was only a few games I was really jealous of.
Kung fu master, so jealous.
Rambo 2, paperboy and ghosts n goblins. Other than that my speccy was the tits man.
As far as Kung Fu Master is concerned, just give Mr. Kung Fu (2018) a try. And forget those voes! ;-)
@@seraphinberktold7087 if I had a way of playing zx spectrum games I'd definitely give it a go I just dont know where I can play them. I'm not really that good on computers so I dont even know where so start.
@@paulmidgley8040 Do you have an android smartphone? Spectacular for Android is a really easy emulator to use. Even if adding your own games is a step too far for you, or comes with a nice collection and you can buy more which are ready to use.
@@avenginglettuce I shall have a butchers.
One thing most ppl forget is that for a Speccy game to be anything but shit, required a great deal of skill from the programmer due to the poor hardware, not like today with Gb of RAM. REAL SKILL.
Хорошее сравнение. Галавное - наглядное.
Uridium on the Spectrum, hehe.
❤
WHERE ARE THE TIME CODES???
You are not honest. Look at SWIV here: L5m9rhBt8GM and then here HABKyIuvgU0. The difference is huge in favor of the C=
are you comparing spectrum 128 with commodore 64?
c64 had something like 42kb available out of the box without using tricks, come on.
These are all 48kb games... There were no different games for 48kb and 128kb, apart from a few exceptions like Where Time Stood Still. The 128kb version had the same graphics as 48kb.
Counting only RAM and no chip registers, the C64 has precisely 64.5 kB - 2 bytes = 66046 bytes available. Yes, this took some bank switching, but it's very simple, not a complex trick. A single-byte write to a single I/O port "turns off" the ROMs and gives the game the full memory minus the 2 kB I/O map. A different value written to the port gives access to all 64 kB of main RAM (minus the attribute RAM). The RAM in the I/O area is always accessible to the VIC-II graphics chip, so it's a good place to store the character set and sprite definitions. Then it can be left alone, with no more bank-switching required, and all of the remaining RAM available to the CPU.
I don't know where you got that 42 kB figure from, but it means nothing on the C64. Perhaps it refers to the 38 kB limit for BASIC code and named variables, but this is no issue for machine language, and even in BASIC it is possible to use the rest of the memory with the POKE, PEEK, LOAD commands, along with small machine language subroutines.
Don't forget that zx was twice cheaper than c64. I wouldn't say spectrum's gameplay worse than commodor's. Also I don't like commodor's palette.
I think my issue with these videos is that these games are more or less the best the spectrum has to offer which also have a C64 version... The other way around would list better games.
The list has the likes of Uridium, Buggy Boy, IK+, Commando..., which are largely considered among the best C64 games (and C64 having one of the best, or the best version of the game across all ports). With over 20k released games between the two machines, no '50 game list' will ever look 'complete', regardless of criteria for selection. But at least this list tries to cover quality games across both systems rather than distinctly pick worst cases for one or the other.
You are kidding right ? A speccy comparing to a C64 ?? You only highlighted the ONLY game's that were better on the spectrum. The 128k Spectrum came out at the same time as the Atari ST and Amiga b.t.w , what a joke !
Were the C64 games just that ugly ?
Not really. But C64 ports of Speky games were never good.
Even though I'm a Speccy fan I cannot say that C64 games were ugly. That is just an exaggeration and simply wrong - which also applies if you generally praise C64 games over Spectrum ones.
Target Renegade in the video shows some nice usage of mulitple hi-res sprites to depict Renegade and his foes. With a limited number of things to move around, the C64 could overcome his low-res limitations.
The ZX Spectrum usually shines with games that require CPU power. Starion or Carrier Command are good examples here. And there is no way something like Starstrike II could be done on a standard C64. Thus only a CPC port exists.
Just like that.
C64... all across the spectrum.
ZX spectrum more crisp graphics worst sound, C64 more blocky but more colorful, better sounds: End result 1:2
You are missing out on CPU power which is an aspect where the C64 cannot keep up with the ZX Spectrum.
Carrier Command e.g. was never done in 3D on the C64. Starstrike II does not even exist on the C64 due to lack of CPU power.
The end result thus is 2:2 which is absolutely fair IMHO.
Fan boys video. Actually some spectrum games looked great but played crap. Specific graphic modes on the C64 have not been used and apart from a few coders of the day they did not really use the c64 pallete effectively. I cannot see the spectrum getting anywhere close in terms of graphics on games like mayhem in monsterland. Have you also seen the Games Series from Epyx, the spectrum just could not do that.
@@seraphinberktold7087 Exactly, 3D is where the Spectrum really humbles the C64, and is the reason why I love both platforms, but I think that the BBC Micro holds amazing potential for smooth graphics and 3D too
The C64 actually offers the option of higher resolution than the Spectrum can display, but developers almost always chose more colors instead.
@@stellartutoring2544 I wouldn't say the Spectrum "humbles" the C64 in terms of CPU power, as its CPU performs most operations in fewer cycles. Running at 1 MHz, it's about equivalent to a 2.5-3 MHz Z80, and with most games it gets a lot of help from the VIC-II graphics chip that more than compensates for the difference. The BBC Micro runs essentially the same CPU at 2 MHz, and it is most definitely faster than the Spectrum's Z80, which runs at 3.5 MHz.
I cannot identify platform by view.
And you video didn't provide it.
Short second didn't count.
So, minus.
Yo tenía el zx spectrum y un colega el Commodore 64.
Siempre discutíamos por cuál era mejor pero siempre supe que el spectrum era una putísima mierda para pobres, el mío.
What so ugly Spectrum versions you show and what wonderful Commodore ones. It's very clear that you are a Commodore fan.
Some are claiming the opposite. 🤨🤔