Its hard to believe we can come here and learn so much in a understandable clear way, learning on each and every video! Thank you, and please continue educating us!
This is super high level geometry information, from someone who seems to really understand it. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY! Someone who can articulate it! I only usually find this in books (road racing books) and plowing through it is brutal. THANK YOU SO MUCH! Please keep them coming, you guys are legends, brilliant delivery or really important topics!
That is one clean race machine! Maybe Im crazy, but I would love to see the post race process of going through the machine for maintenance and cleaning. Might be a long video, but I think folks would love it.
Thanks for these tech videos and explaining the geometry and cause and effects of components in a way the average guy can understand. I don't know if you have done a video on high/low speed dampening or rebound damping but as a motorcycle guy I have never fully understood how to dial it in.
How logical would a push rod cantilever setup be on a sand car that I wouldn’t want the shock in vision at 90 degrees? I beam to long travel conversions. Thanks for all the great info!
It has been done. Super complicated and does not work better. If you can design the car correctly from the start you will not have a shock in your face at all if it’s mounted to the lower arm and you use a 10-14” travel shock. 👍🏼
For some slower southeast rocky trails and hillclimbs with portals. Steering is a terrible problem Im assuming from a really bad scrub radius. If I had the ability to increase the kingpin inclination to reduce the scrub radius what negative affects should I be concerned with. Your videos are great. Keep the info coming.
If you did that it would drive better and feel better in the wheel. Your speeds could increase. Problem is the CV centerline would not be in line with your new king pin angle. This means it would probably pull out. To do this correctly you would have to change the king pin angle and the location of the CV center to match (different bearing position and different length axle) to accomplish what you want.
Glad to keep hearing good things about the krx but I believe stock offset is 4×3 is it designed for it or should my next set of wheels still be 5×1? Thank you.
You guys are awesome n thanks for all the info. I also have a question I just bought a new Kawasaki krx n I notice that my front rt wheel/tire really leans in at the top, I put a square along side of the wheel and the gap between the side of the rim to the square on the rt front wheel assy measures 2" 3/16 that just seems like alot to me. The left side front wheel assy measures 1'' 1/4 inward n that I can live with but the right side at 2'' 3/16 seems way to much n why the difference shouldn't both sides be the same? i just thought it was because the shocks didnt settle or break in yet. but now I have over 1000 miles on it now and nothing changed the shocks are the same n the right wheel still is 2'' 3/16 inward. I am at a complete loss with this. thanks in advance for your advice.
Very surprised that you chose the KRX as the front end suspension winner over the XX. What exactly led you to that decision? I know you said it could go either way, but I think these cars need to start mounting their shocks to the lower arm like they should be
I am looking to add 4" portals to my 2016 Maverick Max Turbo DS. How will that affect my steering? I am doing some high speeds stuff in the high deserts of Utha, some rock crawling, and a lot of high mountain rough trails in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho.
Ive learned so much from these videos! I have a question. When Im designing an A Arm setup for my baja bug, where are the most stresses, most wear seen in an A Arm setup? I have the ability to bump the lower heim to spindle to use a 5/8" bolt but not the upper A Arm to spindle. Ill have to keep that at 1/2 bolt due to the spindle design since I already powdercoated it. Is there a way where you can point to the biggest stress forces on a typical SXS setup, or where you typically see the worst wear/most common heim breaks?
Thank you for tuning in. Your question is complicated. Different spindle designs have different stress points. If the rod end or Uni balls are are vertically mounted then the stress is on the bolt. If they are horizontal or parallel with the ground then the stress is on the uniball cup. If vertical the 1/2” bolt is too small. If horizontal 1/2” is fine. After these spots the spindle snout needs to be 2” not a combo spindle. After that the tie rods get the most stress. Hope that helps!
2020 RZR XP 4 Turbo; is it worth upgrading to the Fox shocks from Polaris or save the money and stick with the Walker Evans, then upgrade to the Shock Therapy units? Thank you for all of the great videos!
We can make your Walkers ride pretty bad ass. It just depends on your budget really because if we can make the Walkers ride like a 6 (on a scale of 1-10) for about $1600 would you be willing to run a Fox RC that will ride like a 9 for $4000? Sell your Walkers for $1500. Have an overall investment of $3000? It is up to you and everyone is different with regard to how much ride quality is worth to them.
Hey this is super informative, I had no idea and this makes complete sense. I'm about to pick up my first car, general xp 1000 4. Would going 2 in wider (4 overall) screw up the geometry on this rig?I'd keep the stock size tire.
if you go wider with wheel offset or wheel spacers then it is bad on geometry. You will get steering wheel feed back and worn out front end parts. If you do it with wider arms then your good.
What about with the new valving in the 19+ models. I traded in a 17' for a 20' and I can't believe it's the same car. Have you guys had any torn apart to note what the differences are? I'm just curious
@@thomasblais3612 we have been in all of them. They are inching their way closer and closer to the internals we run. We constantly test and try to improve our stuff so we are still a step ahead if possible.
@@ShockTherapyllc cool, thanks for the reply. I get that the rzr and can ams geometry is better for the environment these things run in. But I just can't help myself with a 10k rpm redline and a sequential transmission.
With your previous geometry lesson on the rear suspension and the issues with the Honda Talon, Does this mean that the Talon x-4 FLV is even worse as far as having too short of a trailing arm setup to achieve a good geometric suspension
Yes, you are correct. But one thing does help this. Added wheel base is better for timing in the whoops. since the CG moving forward is bad but wheel base is good they just about cancel each other out. I have tested both cars and they drive the same in the rough and whoops.
Is there a way to change the camber on the front tires of a can am x3. I just recently rolled over, bent my left lower a-arm. Changed the arm, and my wheel has a camber inwards. Any info would be awesome. Thank you all for your informative videos. 🤙
There is no adjustment in the stock system for camber or caster. If your tire is still cambered then you have a frame issue up there you need to find. Your only option would be aftermarket arms with rod ends at the frame mounts for adjustability. Geiser Performance and Cognito probably have this adjustment in them. Lonestar does not.
I am planning a single seat rear engine offroad buggy build. I understand attack angle on the front (about 10 degrees), do you add another 10 degrees to the upper arm for anti dive (for a total of 20 degree upper arm lean back)? Also would the same rules apply for rear suspension a-arms?
I think 10 deg is too much attack angel. I would keep it around 5. Max 7. The upper arm anti dive degree is added to that. Roughly you will get the same caster change as degree change. So, if you add 5 degrees to the upper arm you will loose 5 degrees of caster at the spindle through your cycle. If your car is light then 3 degrees is fine. If it is heavy, 1800-2000 lbs then 5 degrees would be better. if you have A arm rear suspension then the rules apply but the upper arm angle is reversed. Instead of higher on the front upper arm pivot you go lower. This will stop some rear squat and limit rear rise under braking.
@@ShockTherapyllc thanks for the reply. I am rewatching the off-road front end suspension geometry part 2 right now. Lots of great info, and I have saved it for future reference.
@@shocktherapy4820 thanks my bud just went 30s with the xp takeoff rims. Had rubbing. What you recommend for that? He went super ATV high clearance arms but now needed spacers
@@keizersoze907 sorry but I don’t know about the clearance issues with those arms. But the factory rim is a 6/1. So a 5/1 gives you 1” more clearance to the arm. A 5/2 gives 2” more arm clearance so those would certainly help
Its hard to believe we can come here and learn so much in a understandable clear way, learning on each and every video!
Thank you, and please continue educating us!
I learn so much watching these videos... Thank you!
Appreciate all the shared knowledge! Justin reminds me of Kevin Cameron from Cycle World who can explain anything and make it understandable!
This is super high level geometry information, from someone who seems to really understand it. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY! Someone who can articulate it! I only usually find this in books (road racing books) and plowing through it is brutal. THANK YOU SO MUCH! Please keep them coming, you guys are legends, brilliant delivery or really important topics!
You sir are very kind. Thank you
A lot of great info thanks for taking the time to do these videos.👍#no chase!!!
That is one clean race machine! Maybe Im crazy, but I would love to see the post race process of going through the machine for maintenance and cleaning. Might be a long video, but I think folks would love it.
Wow this is a great lesson 👏
26:28 exactly the question I was hoping you would answer. Thank you for the information.
Excellent videos
Love these videos. Thanks for the
Great information
I hate to say it...Chase asks better questions than anyone calling in!
Thanks for these tech videos and explaining the geometry and cause and effects of components in a way the average guy can understand. I don't know if you have done a video on high/low speed dampening or rebound damping but as a motorcycle guy I have never fully understood how to dial it in.
i will work on that one. Thank you for the suggestion
You guys are badass.....I have learned so much from your videos and cant wait to apply what I have learned to my car!!
Great video. Made easy to understand.
Great info guys
How logical would a push rod cantilever setup be on a sand car that I wouldn’t want the shock in vision at 90 degrees? I beam to long travel conversions. Thanks for all the great info!
It has been done. Super complicated and does not work better. If you can design the car correctly from the start you will not have a shock in your face at all if it’s mounted to the lower arm and you use a 10-14” travel shock. 👍🏼
Also thanks for doing the lives!! Keep up the great work!! #nochase!!
Nice video. Lots of good info.
Maybe we can talk more about XX geometry? I’d like to see the detailed pros and cons as you’ve done with some others.
We are working on that one very soon.
Starting to read reports of KRX front upper shock mounts failing. How about an evaluation of the OEM mount???
For some slower southeast rocky trails and hillclimbs with portals. Steering is a terrible problem Im assuming from a really bad scrub radius. If I had the ability to increase the kingpin inclination to reduce the scrub radius what negative affects should I be concerned with. Your videos are great. Keep the info coming.
If you did that it would drive better and feel better in the wheel. Your speeds could increase. Problem is the CV centerline would not be in line with your new king pin angle. This means it would probably pull out. To do this correctly you would have to change the king pin angle and the location of the CV center to match (different bearing position and different length axle) to accomplish what you want.
Glad to keep hearing good things about the krx but I believe stock offset is 4×3 is it designed for it or should my next set of wheels still be 5×1? Thank you.
You guys are awesome n thanks for all the info. I also have a question I just bought a new Kawasaki krx n I notice that my front rt wheel/tire really leans in at the top, I put a square along side of the wheel and the gap between the side of the rim to the square on the rt front wheel assy measures 2" 3/16 that just seems like alot to me. The left side front wheel assy measures 1'' 1/4 inward n that I can live with but the right side at 2'' 3/16 seems way to much n why the difference shouldn't both sides be the same? i just thought it was because the shocks didnt settle or break in yet. but now I have over 1000 miles on it now and nothing changed the shocks are the same n the right wheel still is 2'' 3/16 inward. I am at a complete loss with this. thanks in advance for your advice.
Very surprised that you chose the KRX as the front end suspension winner over the XX. What exactly led you to that decision? I know you said it could go either way, but I think these cars need to start mounting their shocks to the lower arm like they should be
Awesome
What video are the sketches on the whiteboard in the beginning of the video from?
sir is anti ackerman good for offroading
I am looking to add 4" portals to my 2016 Maverick Max Turbo DS. How will that affect my steering? I am doing some high speeds stuff in the high deserts of Utha, some rock crawling, and a lot of high mountain rough trails in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho.
Ive learned so much from these videos! I have a question. When Im designing an A Arm setup for my baja bug, where are the most stresses, most wear seen in an A Arm setup? I have the ability to bump the lower heim to spindle to use a 5/8" bolt but not the upper A Arm to spindle. Ill have to keep that at 1/2 bolt due to the spindle design since I already powdercoated it. Is there a way where you can point to the biggest stress forces on a typical SXS setup, or where you typically see the worst wear/most common heim breaks?
Thank you for tuning in. Your question is complicated. Different spindle designs have different stress points. If the rod end or Uni balls are are vertically mounted then the stress is on the bolt. If they are horizontal or parallel with the ground then the stress is on the uniball cup. If vertical the 1/2” bolt is too small. If horizontal 1/2” is fine. After these spots the spindle snout needs to be 2” not a combo spindle. After that the tie rods get the most stress. Hope that helps!
The American Flag hanging up in the shop is being displayed backward. That's all I have.
How so?
Josh Owens he must mean the union should be to the observers left.(stars).
2020 RZR XP 4 Turbo; is it worth upgrading to the Fox shocks from Polaris or save the money and stick with the Walker Evans, then upgrade to the Shock Therapy units? Thank you for all of the great videos!
We can make your Walkers ride pretty bad ass. It just depends on your budget really because if we can make the Walkers ride like a 6 (on a scale of 1-10) for about $1600 would you be willing to run a Fox RC that will ride like a 9 for $4000? Sell your Walkers for $1500. Have an overall investment of $3000? It is up to you and everyone is different with regard to how much ride quality is worth to them.
Hey this is super informative, I had no idea and this makes complete sense. I'm about to pick up my first car, general xp 1000 4. Would going 2 in wider (4 overall) screw up the geometry on this rig?I'd keep the stock size tire.
if you go wider with wheel offset or wheel spacers then it is bad on geometry. You will get steering wheel feed back and worn out front end parts. If you do it with wider arms then your good.
@@ShockTherapyllc thanks for the response! Your information is greatly appreciated
Does the 35" tall tire size for the can am x3 count the 64" model as well or just the 72" models
Just the 72
@@shocktherapy4820 thanks
Why does the YXZ steering feel so good and precise? Is it good geometry?
The steering box is nice. The car sits lower than most. The front arms are closer to level at ride height and this really helps with turning in.
Shock Therapy llc Good to know...
What about with the new valving in the 19+ models. I traded in a 17' for a 20' and I can't believe it's the same car. Have you guys had any torn apart to note what the differences are? I'm just curious
@@thomasblais3612 we have been in all of them. They are inching their way closer and closer to the internals we run. We constantly test and try to improve our stuff so we are still a step ahead if possible.
@@ShockTherapyllc cool, thanks for the reply. I get that the rzr and can ams geometry is better for the environment these things run in. But I just can't help myself with a 10k rpm redline and a sequential transmission.
Any suspension changes to the 2021 X RS that they didn’t mention? Beefed it up at all?
Not that I have been told
Ponga lo en español por fabor
With your previous geometry lesson on the rear suspension and the issues with the Honda Talon, Does this mean that the Talon x-4 FLV is even worse as far as having too short of a trailing arm setup to achieve a good geometric suspension
Yes, you are correct. But one thing does help this. Added wheel base is better for timing in the whoops. since the CG moving forward is bad but wheel base is good they just about cancel each other out. I have tested both cars and they drive the same in the rough and whoops.
Shock Therapy llc thanks for the great information and I highly respect your knowledge and opinions on this matter
I’ll have to make an appointment and have you work your magic on my talon even with it’s limits.
Is there a way to change the camber on the front tires of a can am x3. I just recently rolled over, bent my left lower a-arm. Changed the arm, and my wheel has a camber inwards. Any info would be awesome. Thank you all for your informative videos. 🤙
There is no adjustment in the stock system for camber or caster. If your tire is still cambered then you have a frame issue up there you need to find. Your only option would be aftermarket arms with rod ends at the frame mounts for adjustability. Geiser Performance and Cognito probably have this adjustment in them. Lonestar does not.
@@ShockTherapyllc thank you for your response. Was hoping i did not tweak the frame, but i am starting to think so. Month old machine. 👎
I am planning a single seat rear engine offroad buggy build. I
understand attack angle on the front (about 10 degrees), do you add
another 10 degrees to the upper arm for anti dive (for a total of 20
degree upper arm lean back)? Also would the same rules apply for rear
suspension a-arms?
I think 10 deg is too much attack angel. I would keep it around 5. Max 7. The upper arm anti dive degree is added to that. Roughly you will get the same caster change as degree change. So, if you add 5 degrees to the upper arm you will loose 5 degrees of caster at the spindle through your cycle. If your car is light then 3 degrees is fine. If it is heavy, 1800-2000 lbs then 5 degrees would be better. if you have A arm rear suspension then the rules apply but the upper arm angle is reversed. Instead of higher on the front upper arm pivot you go lower. This will stop some rear squat and limit rear rise under braking.
@@ShockTherapyllc thanks for the reply. I am rewatching the off-road front end suspension geometry part 2 right now. Lots of great info, and I have saved it for future reference.
@@ShockTherapyllc do I need attack angle on the rear also?
@@BrianW2979 Nope, zero is great
I'm looking to buy a set of paddle tires/wheels - who would you recommend that I contact to determine the proper tire and wheel?
Sand Tires unlimited would be my choice. Mark over there has forgotten more than most people know about sand tires.
Just curious, What is your opinion on the factory suspension on the XX?
Sorry, had I waited I would have got my answer..thnxs
2017 rzr s900 eps what wheel size/ offset to go 32 without rubbing if possible?
5/1 or 5/2
@@shocktherapy4820 thanks my bud just went 30s with the xp takeoff rims. Had rubbing. What you recommend for that? He went super ATV high clearance arms but now needed spacers
@@keizersoze907 sorry but I don’t know about the clearance issues with those arms. But the factory rim is a 6/1. So a 5/1 gives you 1” more clearance to the arm. A 5/2 gives 2” more arm clearance so those would certainly help
Thanks you guys are awesome and thank you for loving your trade and profession.
@@keizersoze907 thank you. We really do. Have a great one!
How long will a krx suspension last if I drive it on chatter bump roads every day
We have 2500 Baja Pre run miles on ours so far. Very rough and lots of choppy roads. Have yet to touch the front end in any way
Shock Therapy llc How about suspension sag? Did you guys have to adjust that?
@@SpeeeedyG We already had our spring kit on the car for those miles so it did not settle in over time like the stock springs do.
Thank you
Shock Therapy llc Can you share the link to the spring kit? I see only parts available to the teryx 4.
80" at the ride height?
The rules say measured at 16” ride height