Contrast Paint saves GW from BANKRUPTCY?!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2023
- We chat to the veteran hobby product designer Tom Hibberd! If you've used Citadel tools, paints, contrast paints, brushes, dice, chances are this chap had a hand in designing them. We cover lots of topics like why doesn't Games Workshop make a wet palette? Why is Corax White so bad? And much much more.
Tom has his own Airsoft channel please go and show it some love: @AnvilAirsoftTV
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Развлечения
Whoever designed Agrax Earthshade deserves the Grimdark Nobel Peace Prize.
That is just a brown wash.
Nuln oil, Agrax Earthshade and Seraphim Sepia are the holy trinity of the color range.
Gotta upgrade to oils my guy
The old Agrax ... the new Agrax and Nuln Oil are bad :(
@@Gumlass1amen! Was just going to say this, new aggrax is like a contrast brown..totally different. Old aggrax was lengardary
You guys will be the reason Games Workshop will introduce a 25-years Non-Disclosure Agreement for all the employees lol
I honestly think interviews like this one will be a boon for GW, it logically explains a lot of things
@@martinjrgensen8234yeah, but GW frequently seems to do the opposite of what makes sense
Whilst I don't think we're overly critical here, or revealing loads of secrets, maybe? I'd like to think gw will not be too fussed about us, one two hour chat Vs a money making machine!
That being said they do like to keep the curtain closed!
@@martinjrgensen8234Ima show this interview to all my friends who complain about gw ! It makes so much sense why they do things
@@thepaintingphaseI loved the content here. Lots of insight into gw stuff.
As a product designer myself, it’s very refreshing to see Tom take criticism on his design with professionalism and grace, all the traits of a great senior designer and GW are clearly worse off for losing him. The passion he has for design is really inspiring.
Yes and I’m to hear some of design thoughts behind things like the clippers as it progressed through the versions.
Tom Hibbard didn't save Games Workshop. He's "proud to be a part of the team that saved Games Workshop."
😂🤣😂
Lol!
🤣
“Out of focus for a minute and 30 seconds, I got too into the conversation and forgot to do my job” - the most relatable editors note of all time
As someone that frequently hates on GW, EVERYONE that gripes on GW needs to watch this episode; there is SO MUCH CONTEXT to explain how decisions are made! Probably the best PPh ever.
Yeah like I feel like people would be a little more forgiving of stuff if it was made public that they were apparently 6 weeks away from shutting down forever not too long ago. Unless this a more known thing that I'm just discovering.
@@squiginjr I was totally shocked to hear that but I think what impacted me more was exactly who GW is trying to attract and why, and how impactful a new product needs to be to be worth while. It really demonstrates how much of a keystone species GW is in its niche; don't push the wolves out of Yellowstone or the grazers will eat all the young 🌱 before they get a chance to grow, you know?
@@zramirez5471 yeah as soon as he explained that they designed stuff around "this has to be usable for everyone" a lot of stuff made sense.
@@squiginjrAnnouncing a potential bankruptcy like that would be a disaster to the value of their publicly traded shares as it would cause a massive amount of people trying to get rid of their shares before the company would go belly-up. People just need to accept they are not entitled to get all the information on what goes on inside the inner workings of a company. Companies make decisions like this every day since the birth of free trade. Great that this episode got you this insight of course.
@@zramirez5471bear in mind I’m taking about the Citadel Hobby Products team before 2016 and not wider GW
I came to terms that I'm officially old today. I realized I found these conversations about production and distribution more interesting than the typical gaming/hobby podcast. Love these videos.
This is probably my favourite episode so far. Honestly, I love these Hobby-related behind the scenes stuff. Whenever people that actually work or used to work for GW talk about the business, production and design side behind it all I could watch for hours and not be bored. I really like getting an insight and understanding the underlying reasons for design and business decisions they make and why they do things the way they do them and why other companies might do it differently. So whenever you get the chance to invite someone who has stuff to say on those topic - please do!
Would love to see Duncan on one of these sit downs with Peachy. Great episode guys. So many good bits in here.
I second this! :)
The amount of insight into the hobby you guys provide every week is unmatched.
Thanks so much. Very kind - Geoff
Can confirm, contrast through airbrush is sublime.
It is indeed sublime, up there with shooting the high gloss citadel air range over stark contrast pre shade or metallics.
It's really good.
I've tried this but found it to clog the airbrush very quickly. I've tried adding airbrush thinner and flow improver but I've not had any luck so far. Any suggestions for how to get it working nicely?
@@ThatBassMann What contrasts are you using? Could be a color specific issue?
@@ThatBassMann Thin it to glaze consistency & shoot it like a glaze, super low PSI, less air over the needle = slower drying.
Try some medium instead of thinner often thinner can make stuff dry on the needle faster.
Until recently I was in R&D in the aquarium industry. So much of what you say in this video is familiar and applies to that as well; especially the Hobby Trumpet part. What an pleasantly unexpected convergence of two of my interests, thanks Tom!
This guy is one of the best podcast guests I’ve ever seen. It would be great if he became part of the show for more episodes to give the kind of voice of reason that he gives on all these issues. Also seems like a really cool guy
This is what a lot of hobbyists need to hear about as to why certain things are made or not.
I never thought I could listen to someone talk about product design for over 2 hours. I could listen to Tom all day long! He's so articulate, knowledgeable, and passionate.
Nice to see Tom still kicking and being passionate about his designs! Really enjoyed my time in the hobby team working with him and the other mad scientists and designers 😊
As far as Citadel paint names go, its a crime that one of the red hues has not been named " Magnus The Red"
lets hijack baal red, they dont need it
Thousand sons codex should be called the learning of prospero
Thousand Sons dice should be Rubriks Cubes
@@ElCid_1099 👏🤣
I think when they did the Artificer Pigment set they actually did name one of the pigments Magnus The Red
Apparently the reason bold titanium white works so well is the pigmentation. A friend in the art world told me a lot of paint manufacturers won't spring for purer titanium oxide pigment because of the price, so they use blended pigments and little pigmentation. Apparently pro acryl uses pure titanium oxide and densely pigmented in comparison to the medium and solvent, it's also finely ground
That's really helpful to know, thank you for sharing! :)
@@jeffjohnson5286 you're welcome, I've wondered for years why white paint sucked too
@@YaBoiVD Same goes for black paints. You need to really shop for high pigment whites and blacks.
@@Fuzzycat16- Don’t forget yellows. Almost universally gloopy. I get the impression these three colours spoil very quickly, much like emulsion house paints, i.e. they become goopy and unusable.
I'm obsessed with these GW-lore deep-dive videos with previous employees. Amazing content.
Best. Episode. Ever.
What a peek behind the curtain! Honestly don't think you guys could top this, guest with a really unique experience and view on the hobby, and the three of you truly at the top of your game with steering a fascinating conversation.
brilliant episode this, fascinating and super informative! lovely stuff
One of the best chats I've ever heard in regards to the hobby.
What a fantastic guest, his knowledge and insights to GW where incredible.
I could listen to this sort of discussion for hours.
There have been so many conversations i’ve had over the years with people who moan about various GW products that Ive responded with “Well, maybe the product isn’t meant for you?” and man was this validating 😂 fantastic episode, cant wait to share it with some friends to listen to while they hobby!
Great reply, cheers!
This is probably the best GW focused video on the internet. I can only pray we get more like this. Fantastic work.
As an Industrial Designer and long time GW hobbyist this was fascinating. I appreciated how well Tom took the criticisms of the products, readily admitted their flaws and explained their genesis. I really regret not buying the dice las-pack and especially that skull measuring tape, that was amazing!
GW sold a wet pallet for years! what i found strange though is that they filled it with static grass instead of a sponge and paper ^^
😂🤣😂
@@thepaintingphase unfortionetly they discontinued it. the lid seals perfect, and it fits a standard paint station. all other wet pallets out there are huge and cumbersome. i use it for several years now.
Are you referring to the old circular static grass tubs?? I might dig mine out if so!
@@voncrumb no, i mean the rectangular flat box.
Fascinating stuff. When I was a kid models were £2.99 a blister pack. Getting mail-order deliveries was a childhood highlight. I sold all my armies off as a teen, eventually became an independent stockist in my 30's, went out of business & now collect Orks.
I remember getting 20 of the beaky marines for like 9.99 , early 90s.. even then, total bargain and with £10 packet money perfect… I remember vouchers in White Dwarf too… Thunk GW must be the only company never to have sales.. Greedy bunch aren’t they😂…They should consider doing that with old stock might reduce the scalps and save me money 😂
Genuinely this is the most interesting chat yet. Others have been more entertaining or have had more well known personalities, but this was soooooo interesting it was amazing!!
I cant believe how quickly that video passed. Surely needs a part 2.
Agreed! We need a Finecast sequel...
This has been awesome. As an ex GW employee trying to explain some of the points covered in this video over the years was always difficult. Cheers to you guys and the guests you have on.
Spray gun was (and still ) brilliant for base coating. Always found it useful but I ran out of propellent and never thought to use a compressor. I've got one in the garage.....THE HAND FLAMER LIVES AGAIN 🔥🔥🔥
You lucky person!
Flame on! 🔥
A games store in my city recently let me rummage through an old cabinet of gw stuff they didn’t seek years ago and I found a flamer in there…. Plus two tins of propellant…. Very scared to use these ancient tins hahaha
The propellant cans were terrible, but hooked into a compressor its great for base coating. Done a bunch of terrain with it.
@@minishaw280 Rub it in oil to awaken the machine spirit.
Contrast paints probably are one of the best products that GW has ever released. I started painting Imperial Fists recently and I would never have even thought about painting a yellow army without this paint range.
I was one of those teens.
Loved the hobby between 10 and 14. Then life happened. I'm now 40 and more involved than ever.
It's kinda nice to see the inner workings of a company. I understand that companies like games workshop probably don't want this but if your more transparent you'll gain trust from your customer base
This was probably the best episode yet for me. It does a great job of showing that in the end it’s just about the toy soldiers and the company that makes them tries to make a profit. I love my mini’s and it’s refreshing to hear that the casuals are still very much a part of the hobby, a take that gets overlooked quite a lot on the internet.
Nothing wrong with making a profit. It’s when the suits get involved and start forcing the creatives down avenues they don’t want to go, and then you get international stock-listed and acquire another floor of suits telling the first suits what to do. 😆
This was really amazing. It's really lovely to hear someone with this level of insight speak so frankly.
Deeply respect Tom's humility when talking about things he wasn't involved in as well.
The amount of work that goes into making anything at all, let alone at the scale of a company like Games Workshop, is astonishing.
This is perhaps your best episode yet. Entertaining and very insightful... it's funny to hear R&D and marketing concepts talked in so much detail with a GW lens.
Citadel Contrast and Army Painter Speed Paint have literally saved me days of my life. The products are fantastic and result in models I am absolutely proud to show off and play.
The variety in your guests is so interesting! Only 2 mins in, can't wait :)
What a brilliant guest and cast very pleasant bloke and not the slightest hint of patronising.
Did I catch that right? Tom paints Crimson Fists. Truly, a man of both talent... and taste! Thanks for an excellent episode!
Seriously, you guys do better GW PR than GW does. So many things logically explained, surprisingly difficult processes laid out. Brilliant!
As someone that works in supply chain it’s amazing to hear someone give a proper insight into how companies make decisions.
S TIER CONTENT, i could listen to Tom talk shop all day long! Great guest!
What a lovely bloke! I hope he's on again and you manage to talk about what he enjoys about GW as a consumer too. Great stuff.
As a business nerd, I LOVED this episode! So much knowledge and history.
I don’t interact with the game or hobby side of 40k and just love the setting and (a certain percentage of) the novels. This discussion was absolutely fascinating. So interesting to see all of the behind the scenes decision making at GW. Thanks so much.
The conversation at 16 min is a great point, and a perfect example of why the weird crowd that are becoming aggressive about "gatekeeping" would end up causing the death of their own hobby. GW can't just market to niche veterans, and they shouldn't.
This podcast does.not.miss - just incredible discussions time after time. I can't thank you lads enough for these engaging, interesting and fun videos. Mr Hibberd you were so insightful and it's not often these days I can sit for a couple of hours glued to the screen. Thank you so much!
This was a great episode, definitely interesting to hear the guest leading the majority of conversations without any real pushing from you guys, obviously needed to get some stuff out there!
This is the best GW explainer I have ever seen. Thank you so much!
T try Hank’s so very much. That’s really kind.
Absolutely LOVED this episode and all the insights Tom brings. The expertise, industry knowledge and passion from your guests makes Painting Phase THE hobby podcast to watch. None of which would matter without the the easy going banterous backbone you bring as regular hosts. Top work chaps, cant wait to see the heights you'll climb.
Such a great comment! Thanks so very much.
Man, Tom is great fun! This has been really illuminating. It's also awesome to see someone who is genuinely positive. Having a positive attitude to so refreshing.
Somewhere deep in the bowels of GW a servo skull is frantically printing out new NDA contracts.
Silliness aside, this was just amazing. Seeing how the sausage is made and the factors involved. Reminded me of my days as a purchaser for a manufacturer.
This has got to be the most interesting conversation about GW I've ever seen. Thanks gentlemen.
Absolute legendary show- love this stuff!
As a marketer it’s really refreshing to hear the ‘why’ and the very honest ‘yeah, they’re not competition’. Absolutely love this content.
This was an amazing chat, I learned so much. It’s great to hear from people who know what they’re talking about
For an absolute fan of contrast paints this podcast is gold!! My favorite podcast so far. Amazing job guys
Ive been catching up on all the episodes of this podcast since i discovered it and i can safely say this is the most interesting episode so far for me. Having this insight into the companys design philosophy is fascinating
We need more Tom! This was awesome.
There two Tom interviews in there, if you haven’t seen both.
This episode is GOLD- fascinating, eloquent, good-natured GOLD.
Thank you, gents!
You're very welcome, glad you enjoyed it.
If 35-50 year old women are the 'core customer' with the buying power, the physical shops should really make more effort in making the stores smell better and be more welcoming in that regard. Maybe offer a proper cup of tea.
I can't believe that they are the long term repeat sales main buyers... I could see them being the birthday and Xmas presents main buyers, I guess the "cocaine and brunch big suburban 4wd car housewives of high earning husbands might get the kid all the expensive models they want to shut the kid up / keep them out of their hair, but are they really the majority of parents ? I think covid would have had a lot of men in their 30s and 40s purchasing a lot more than those mothers , and those men are surely more repeat / return busines ? This whole model sounds like they market to one off sales not return buisness . ..
Yeah that odor of sweaty man-meat, coupled with a trace amount of 'the toilet might be backed up' definitely doesn't inspire consumers to partake in whatever this Warhammer thing is.
@@geteavnroc2250how does nerd culture have the most intelligent, skilled and creative people, but is also packed with unwashed genetic mistakes? There is no in between and it's kind of jarring.
He's 100% wrong. They're not the target audience at all.
@@WardenOfTerra any proof?
09:00 would've been the perfect moment to exclaim "Look at my horse, my horse is amazing!" XD
Gentlemen, after now having finished this episode of "Darker thank Pink", this was an interesting and informative while lighthearted and delightful 2 hours. Thank you all very much!
Another amazing show and amazing guest. So much appreciation to Tom for coming on and giving so much insight and context to the workings of the mysterious GW machine. I'm so relieved that I wouldn't have had an answer over my favourite colour GW brush and it being a trick question.
My sincerest thanks to everything Tom had a hand in on adding to our hobby arsenals. It's been an absolute joy experiencing how far the materials have progressed over the last decade or 2. It's really a golden age of hobby now.
Thanks guys.
I think this may just be your best interview yet? Certainly the most interesting.
This was one of the most insightful and fascinating discussions on GW's inner workings I've come across and Tom was a really engaging and fun guest.
It's kinda of crazy to learn that Contrast was developed with beginners in mind, only for them to be released in larger pots at around double the price of the normal paint.
A LOT of what gw does is contradictory. with their entry into social media and using it to do marketing, they are now more effective at gaslighting their customer base.
there are a lot of good people working at gw but a lot of their worst marketing decisions come from the not so nice people in that company and many are still in there today.
fanbois were circling jerking themselves saying ''the new gw is awesome / changed'' when gw got into social media marketing but the real story is social media marketing SAVED gw because they finally have a way to market their products effectively to their customer base that are all connectable on social media.
I’m glad they’re in bigger pots tho as you use a lot more contrast doing the thick Coates !
This was an absolutely FASCINATING episode. I love hearing about the design process and why GW made certain choices.
That was brilliant. Please schedule Tom in for a return visit some time.
Absolutly loved this conversation, so much to pick over. The idea of asking "who is this made for" and designing for an audiance and not just yourself. Really good stuff! ... Little tip on brushes. Artis Opus' do sell great brushes, BUT that's because they're made by the fantastic Rosemary&Co, who sell them for about a third of the cost 😁 AO's 'S' brushes are 'Series 33' (if you want to give a non-animal brush a go, have a look at 'Series 301')
I wondered where I had seen this man before! it was airsoft, love seeing my two main hobbies cross over
Hi!
Thanks for coming on the show Tom! What an outstanding episode!!
This was absolutely fascinating to watch, I could easy stand to watch you all talk for hours. All the technical details are wonderful, the chemistry, the logistics, everything. Bravo!
I can't say how incredibly interesting this is. I've been a GW fan since I was 7 and it's fascinating to hear how so many of the things I've used and seen were created, as well as the general details on the business and manufacturing side of things. What an amazing episode, thank you Tom and everyone at the show!
Great episode! Always good to learn more about hobby product development, and the extra context this adds to a lot of famous/infamous decisions by GW is very interesting.
This is one of the very best hobby podcasts I've listened to, wonderful guest, great chat.
What an amazing show. Best guest imo so far, and Tom's insight is so great to hear! You guys are killing it! Love the show, keep it up!
Super Interesting guest, it's been amazing to find out all the impact these guests have on the hobby and community. Cheers guys
What a great episode. I'm really fascinated by this behind-the-scenes stuff, and I could listen to this all day.
This was easily the best, most insightful podcasts/video I have ever watched. Really fascinating to hear about the thinking behind so many things.
Would love more content and guest like this when you can get it.
Honestly... every week this raises the bar! Not just because about informing on the mammoth that is GW but it's such an insight into the whole hobby as well as, likely unintentionally a great window into career pathways!! Excellent Stuff!
Tom "Troll Slayer" Hibbard. He slew so more internet trolls in 2 hours than Gotrek slew actual trolls in his life.
Have to say this has probably been one of the best hobby chatshows/podcasts I have watched in a long time. Tom is super interesting. Hope a 2nd show is planned in the future!
What a great enlightening video. I'm a design engineer so understand the issues with suppliers and how past decisions have big effects on what you are doing today!
This must've been the most insightful podcast considering Warhammer/Tabletop that I ever watched!
I will link this video to everyone who wants to understand GW as a company better, thank you for that!
( I generally feel like its a huge problem that a lot of "GW haters" have basically no awareness of how companies work)
Thanks to everyone for this great conversation. Interesting to hear the rarely discussed details 😍
Great episode! This is the most eye-opening interview concerning GW I've seen. Thank you for making these!
Best interview yet. Love hearing all the behind the scenes processes. Keep em coming!
I’m glad, that Geoff made it to the recording - he is on fire 🔥 Every comment either very funny or very insightful 👍
Not used many contrast paints but black legion is magical
Imperial Fist Yellow is the bees knees. Makes painting yellow easy.
Most of them are good tbh
To be fair they’re the worst best kept secret ! The amount of old school painters I’ve converted to them is insane! Legit they’re magic
This was by far my favorite interview, the amount of behind the scenes trivia about these products. I loved it.
One of the best insights into hobbies and business I have ever seen. Brilliant insight and ability to articulate it with humour fun
Genuinely the most interesting video I've watched this year! Really insightful, thanks guys! 🙌
This is such a wonderful, insightful interview. If Tom joins the team, I wouldn't complain.
Tom. Join the team.
Please join up for a regular slot Tom!
This is the best episode so far. Absolutely fascinating. So many little gems. More of this please!!!
That was absolutely fascinating. My old maths teacher always used to drum into me "show your working", and somehow this felt like the same lesson being applied to Games Workshop - so much that makes more sense when you see *how* they got to particular answers (products.)
This is mandatory watching for anyone who feels frustrated and angry with Games-workshop’s corporate strategy. An honest, in-depth look at why the company makes the decisions it does. Very informative. Otherwise, continue to hate-watch the rage bait RUclipsrs. But you’ll be angry and poorer for it. The Painting Phase is truly bringing the community to gather and celebrating our shared history of miniature wargaming.
Great video (and not just as a fan of contrast!). Really nice to see the discussion of the commercials and positioning behind the products and the approach to it, which I think should bust some of the more persistent myths in the community about the business side (which, to be fair aren’t surprising given people aren’t necessarily familiar with large corporates, let alone those doing what GW does). More of this please!
I'm only about half hour into the video, but this is really interesting stuff to listen to. It's so easy to listen to just people talking about stuff, when they use it in a certain way. But then to hear what was being thought of while creating said products.
This was absolutely fascinating, I love a deep dive into how and why things were made the way they were. Showing photos of the old products you were talking about would have been the icing on the cake 👌
This was fascinating. I love hearing about why things are the way they are.