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The RT reflections look really nice. The lumen ones are quite bad.

Exactly

Sometimes it doesn't even look much different like the desert map. The reflections look really nice though. Too bad it seems to be restricted to certain surfaces and materials and or zones.

I haven't played with it enabled in any meaningful way. Did take a look at it briefly in my first First Descendant video looking at the 4090 in ultrawide I felt DLSS 3 looked a bit better. Got some jerky ui icons I pointed out but thats about the extent. Here it looked fine enough I guess. What's your thoughts on it? I assume you probably have used it more than I.

@TerraWare I've been running the 4080 4k no RT with a mixture of high/ultra and dlss quality/frame gen and it's been great. I swapped over last night and ran the 7900xtx with same settings but obviously FSR and it felt terrible. Admittedly I'm gonna have to check as I didn't think at the time I might have gone over my 144hz refresh with no vsync. But I found FSR quality too blurry anyway so ran 10mins with FSR AA and Frame gen and that also felt terrible.. I was 70-80fps before frame gen so shouldn't have been an issue? I ended up playing medium settings 4k no upscale or frame gen and that felt the best for me. I'll need to look further into it but was interested to see if you'd noticed anything..

Oh I'm also playing M&K on both systems so maybe that's something to do with it?

@@Spratty-wb3is FSR upscaling doesn't look good in this game it's way too soft. I too play with M+K btw but yeah I haven't played with FG in any meaningful way. May check it out today since I have some time.

@@Spratty-wb3is Try the 7900xtx with TSR at quality mode. TSR is just so much better IMO.

It happens lol. Some people are opinionated online and some just don't know. It's one of the reasons why I like to look at this stuff, for my own curiosity too.

Its not sus, most of the bigger channels or tech websites normally just test with max settings and with RT on both gpu's so people automatically think nvidia is better overall. Its not the case when you start testing with different settings and scenarios. They both have strengths and weaknesses in certain scenarios and games. Not 1 brand is faster in every single game released, (not everyone can afford and rtx 4090). The dude buys both brands just like I do, I like both brands.

Not really. I come up with scenarios I want to test and I run same exact settings on both GPU's and than compare the footage of both, log averages and 1% lows at the end of the run and compare them. If you pause at the end of each chapter you can see the numbers on RTSS match the averages and 1% lows numbers. I don't know exactly how they compare until I edit the footage anyway. I don't have some emotional attachment to either brand although I do primarily game on my 4090 just to be transparent. I find DLSS to be really awesome technology but I always aim to be fair.

Could've been a fluke but that you have to use FSR to get frame gen to show up in the settings. You can however use FSR Native AA for this that works too.

@@TerraWare You are right..

FSR FG works good locking the fps, but FSR upscaler is really bad implemented, same way TAA, so I decided to use Lossless Scaling x3 with DLSS quality, if u can reach 80 90fps base fps and do not use FSR, u will have a good boost with only some ghosting in character but looking nice. I say 80 90 fps Cuz lossless scaling with x3 fg performance has an impact of 15 20 fps, so in my case I have 90fps base, 70fps base x3 with lossless scaling x3 performance. In your case maybe Lossless x2 performance works great. Also what I really need is a slider to lock the fps in game exactly to what I can reach, cuz FG works better having a stable framerate, but in game only can select 60,95,120, that is really a bummer

Lol I always get comments suggesting something I missed. It's good, in hindsight I probably should've. With FSR and RT maybe it could've. Without upscaling the base framerate would be way too low for it to be enjoyable.

@@TerraWare would've been interesting to see. I was initially talking about the RT performance when you enabled upscaling, as RT without any upscaler is not great on both, and nobody really uses RT without upscalers in 99% of games. However, both was above 60fps AVG with upscaling, only 9/10 FPS difference. Was Just wondering wether the 6800xt would've actually surpassed the 3080ti in RT. Either way it's a great showing for the 6800xt , a great deal if bought for under $400.

@@DwaynedaGamer I paid $900 for my particular model. It was right when they launched and this model was the most expensive AIB at the time, that was the MSRP and than prices went even high because of crypto. I interestingly enough paid less for the Strix 3080Ti a year later. But yeah 6800XT's were available for around $400. A great price. I did a video testing 23 AAA games with it at 4K like 2 months ago. Its very capable even with RT in many games.

Not with ray tracing, and it is an Nvidia sponsored title but with just software lumen it does pretty well. I did 4090 vs 7900XTX the other day and the XTX kept up pretty well with the 4090 with ray tracing off. So I'd say AMD does better than you'd probably expect.

The ray tracing setting does add some very nice ambient occlusion and shadows and the ultra setting ads propper ray traced reflections but they are only limited on glass and other reflective surfaces. Not bodies of water, those remain lumen/screen space.

I would say so yeah.

That's a very good approach to spread information. Quality over quantity. This time I didn't miss your "optimized settings" part😅

@@qarim350xd For UE5 games Shadows, GI and Reflections seem to be the settings that tend to be most taxing. My go to for a more performance focused gameplay is never use the Ultra preset lol, unless its for textures and you have no vram worries.

Thanks. Glad you like it.

@alexjensen007 It does improve ambient occlusion and shadows mostly noticeable outdoors and also a lot more accurate reflections in RT ultra but yeah nothing too crazy.

Yup noticed it after making the vid.

At 2:49 is exactly what I would consider my optimized settings. It will even match a 4090 with equivalent settings. You get native 4K and the game still looks great. Shadows and Global Illumination are the most demanding graphical settings second to the Ray Tracing setting.

​@TerraWare alright. So to consistently get 60 FPS, lower everything to high plus keep textures on ultra.

@@qarim350xd Yup and than you can use upscaling on top if you wanted. There's also frame generation which works pretty good.

R&C was always the worst looking FSR out of the Nixxes ports with Spiderman being a close second imo. It's why I wanted to examine these and at 1440P. More recent implementations of FSR have been pretty good like HFW and GoT. That said though I do believe AMD will take FSR in the machine learning phase. I also don't believe that they'd have to necessarily make it bound to their own hardware. They could do something similar to Intel or maybe use neural processing units that will be arriving in desktop CPU's soon. Sky's the limit.

Asus Tuf OC. My specs are in the description.

None of the brands are perfect. Intel 13th and 14th gen chips are weak here again too. Forums are flooded with people on i7/i9 13th and 14th gen cpus that can't get past the main menu when it loads the shaders. "out of memory errors" Most are too salty to even read up on intel news that says to update bios and put to baseline settings.

@@jrminate TSR is generally pretty good.

So you have no choice, on Amd and the chic newest soon-to-be ubiquitous UE5. Native and TSR are noisy, pixelated, and FSR is not good enough. All this is not good in comparison with the HB DLAA and most importantly with the HB feature here, the ray modifier, with which the image becomes clean and clear, on the ultras, with rt-ultra.

7900xtx costs half the money of a 4090 and it performs better than a 4080 (they're almost the same price). Power consumption is the same as a 4090.

@@TheAtomoh Yes, yes, but what Amd is better at is interesting. A total drain in graphic new technologies, correct real lighting, correct drivers, power consumption, streaming, virtual helmets, in newfangled AI, which is the future, and in the revolutionary UE5, which comes to games everywhere. Total drain in professional tasks. Therefore, Amd has less than 20% of the market on the table. Have you forgotten anything?)

​@@evrussia Why the bickering, just play your games. The only nvidia gpu I would personally go with is the 4090 or bust. If I want to find a more value oriented gpu and not care about all these features and still get high FPS I would get something like a 7900XT. You need to realize not everyone needs or wants all of these features. What if you are a competitive gamer and want to get the most bang for your buck and want the highest fps possible to price ratio. You would shoot for a 7900XT. Why, because for competitive gaming you shoot for highest fps possible with 1080 or 1440p max with no Ray Tracing or Frame gen. 7900XT is a lot cheaper than the rtx 4080, you can use that money else where on the build.

Do you understand that all Radeon cards are not capable for next gen games? Ehm next gen is here from the beginning of 2024. Get an RTX and be happy😊

@@WhatTheGame-nd4vh 7900 is the 4080 level, and that's the level without rays. And playing modern games without real ray correct lighting \ soft shading \ reflections, according to old raster technologies, is nonsense, for the present time of development. Definitely not worth the price for 7900. And Amd technologies work even worse than dlaa\dlss, filter-reconstruct and generator. And those who buy 4080\4090 cards, they definitely do not need to save money for something else in the system unit. They've already bought everything.

Interesting, I will have to check this out later. Don't think I've seen this before.

Btw what's the name of the website and article I'd like to read it

I don't think this makes sense considering the AMD hardware in current-gen consoles. Those versions have hardware RT as an option which as you mentioned is gauged by the non-screen-space reflections present when that option is toggled on. SDFs don't work on skinned meshes, so it makes it easy to confirm that it's HW RT and not SW RT alone.

amd have BVH but games doesnt use LDS instructions that speed up a lot the raytracing the quality is because the denoiser nvidia implemented in dlss 3.5

Ok so I tested this briefly and it's not really true. The game uses lumen reflections with the Reflections setting on High and Ultra with a screen space layer pass on top. The lumen reflections don't look great on both brands and doesn't show players without the screen space pass. To get the most accurate ray traced reflections you must set the Ray Tracing setting to Ultra. The difference between High and Ultra Ray Tracing setting seems to be reflections. This shows beautiful reflections including players with casting shadows as well on both AMD and Nvidia. From what I saw the reflections of players do look a bit clearer on Nvidia and enabling ray reconstruction makes it even better but this was quite a brief look. Here's a link of a short clip I put together. ruclips.net/video/GWBunxZ23rY/видео.html

of cthey can, don't let one game decide that 😅 My second PC with a 7900 GRE can do RT in even a nvidia sponsored title that is not optimized at all, Cyberpunk. A friend of mine got the 7800 XT and he too can use RT in Cyberpunk and higher settings in Avatar. I'm however lazy and can't bother to play this game on my main PC with 4080S, so I play it on my PS5 instead 🙃

2024, because of Amd, it is nonsense to abandon the latest correct beautiful ray graphics in games, from the latest revolutionary UE5 engine. It is better to switch to NV technologies.

@@_TrueDesire_ on a 7800xt or greater defo not. My 4070super was strugglin in 1440p which 2 times faster in rt. also on my 4080s barley can do 1440p to reach 60fps in some games

@k1cs1m3a8 I play games at 4K with my 4080S just fine 👍🏻 Ryzen 7600 and LG oled. 32GB ram pushed to 6000 Mhz (max with 1:1 ratio)

@@evrussia greatest?

I see. Never played Destiny believe it or not so that's a pretty good perspective.

It does, dropping Shadows and GI to High from Ultra gives a decent performance gain too.

I've been doing a bit more testing. Going from High to Ultra on Ray Tracing enables RT reflections. That explains why its a bit costly but the reflections look so much better, you can even see players with self casting shadows. Basically you have static lumen reflections that don't look great with a screen space reflections layer which will show players as well obviously but RT reflections doesnt rely on screen space.

@@TerraWare nice. Reflections is the main ray tracing thing I can somewhat care about.

@@DonovanMcNabb5 That used to be my most favorite RT effect. It still is in many ways but a good global illumination can really ad to the immersion. But the detailed reflections seem to be limited to transparent solid surfaces like glass. Not water. Water is still lumen with a screen space reflection layer on top. May make a short vid about it as its interesting kind of.

Yeah it should look much better than it currently does.

Dude no kidding. It looked like crap on launch. I was just playing Native with frame generation on day one. It is better now, thankfully

I haven't yet looked at FSR 3.1 in Ghost or Horizon but looked at 2.2 when the games launched it looked pretty good. The channel BenchmarKing did a video last night looking at Horizon and Ghost comparing FSR 2.2 and 3.1 it was pretty good. Check it out.

@@TerraWare 👍cool

Eh, FG has me feeling nauseous so it's definitely not a silver bullet. But if it works for you I'd definitely use it.

i have yet to see a game that i can lock on vsync and turn on frame gen at the same time.. it usually disables vsync..

@@turboimport95 You would only use vsync to stay within your monitor refresh rate. What you want to do is limit your FPS to half your refresh (60 for 120, 120 for 240) and use FG to make up the rest of the frames for your monitor refreshrate. I wouldn't turn on vsync because there's possibly an input latency increase, you should instead limit your fps either in game or with a third party app.

@@Accuaro yeah would have to use a app to do it. i run 60 at 4k so i never use upscaling or dlss etc. 60 plays very nice to me. i dont need 100+ fps in a game.

It looks pretty good.

Interesting, you haven't played any of the Sony games on PC? Must not be your type of game.

@@TerraWare Most of them I have played on console already before they were ported, but the PC ports are so late and so expensive. If they go cheap enough I'll probably double dip, but I think I might still end up playing most of them on PS5 with physical copies and sell them when I'm done. I do most of my PC gaming on game pass now and I doubt sony games would ever go on there. God of War Ragnarok, Ratchet and Clank and Returnal are the main ones I haven't played yet which I want to. I don't mind waiting for the prices to drop way down though since they are all single player games.

Yeah the flicker is always more stable on DLSS across the board.

@listoman9365 Right it doesn't really make sense how FSR could look better on different brands of GPU. The amount of frames generated and or latency, sure that can differ.

We are talking specifically about the quality of the FSR image at different fps. As the FPS increases, the FSR has fewer artifacts, ghosting, etc. I don't consider imputlag and fg)

@silvio351 I haven't yet checked out the FSR 3.1 update on HFW and GoT but FSR 2 looked great, I did a video on GoT especially examining the generated frames VS DLSS 3 and it looked great.

Great job, @TerraWare and @Rhoberly were the only FSR videos with careful side-by-side viewport angles and backgrounds. This is specially important in ghosting issues. Only thing would be use if possible SMAA T2x instead of TAA

@@silvio351 The only issue I saw with Ghost of T was the ghosting around the character, apart from that there is an issue of flashing lights if you have recording enabled in AMD software or AMD instant replay. Turn that off and it fixes

I kinda always ignore SMAA

@@TerraWare Especially in Tsushima SMAA T2x has the best detail on particles in the first vilage looking from the mountain. Every other temporal AA/upscaler has severe issues with particles