Debi Thomas (USA) - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2010
- Cincinnati, Ohio, USA - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Debi Thomas of the United States skated better than she did at U.S. Nationals, but it was not enough to beat a clean program by Katarina Witt of East Germany. She would place 2nd here and end up moving up from 3rd to 2nd Place overall.
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Debbie, I'm so very proud of you. Not to many people can do what you did, skating while going to college. I recall how afraid you were when you thought people would find out about a low score you got on a test , but you bounced back. I also recall how sad you were one day, but a phone call from your dad cheered you up. Yes, I have followed your career. The day you won the U.S. Nationals, I could only get one Oakland Tribune the next morning, and that was the one delivered daily. I was up early, threw on my robe and out to several 7elevens and other stores I went. But no luck. ALL Papers Had Been Snatched Up!
I still recall the headlines in the Tribune: "DEBBIE THOMAS TRIPLE JUMPED INTO A US. CHAMPIONSHIP " I kept that paper well over ten years.
I was so upset with the judges when they punished you for your attire, which women now wear without any reprimand, during the short Olympics program, and so was the audience. IMO, that had an effect on your free program with the triple, triple. Afterwards, Whitt told a reporter "Who Ever Heard Of A Triple, Triple?" Well we certainly know she's not asking that question anymore. Right?
Just hang in there Debbie. Think back to when people were suspect of your talent, and if you would accomplish what you said you would do. WELL DONE, AND DONE. PRAYERS WILL SEE YOU THROUGH.
Bla bla bla
Lillie, I hope Debi reads your comment. I agree 100%!!
She's a legend.
From Australia this young First Nations bloke LOVES her!
BRAVO! Still brings a smile to my face all of these years later... a brilliant skater.
Oh I remember this!! I was mesmorized by Debi`s talent.
Dear Debbie, you always were and always will be my personal hero! You were the mistress of the ice, a phenomenal physician, surgeon and mom. If you did all of these amazing things once you can do it all again! God bless! SJxx
Electric program with wonderful crowd support!
Wow chills watching and listening. Love it.
Still brings a tear to my eye after all these years
QUEEN DEBI! What an inspiration. Thank you. Great video.
Благодарю Вас за Прекрасное Видео и Танцы Шедевр. Всего самого наилучшего вам в жизни.
I pray that Debi gets her life back on track❤
This was probably the only time I really enjoyed Debi Thomas' skating.
She was always underscored !!!
Especially Artistic Marks.. that's Often where the Judges play games.
Очень тяжёлое катание. Удивляюсь, как она попадала в тройку. В это время нужно было выпускать Тоню.
Thank you.
the best period
This music is so good
Mate, I finally found the music, literally today after searching since 1987, that is a long time, so part one is called "Suite from The River V. Vortex by Duke Ellington Symphony No 1 and Thais Meditation is part two and Part three is Verdi but unsure of that.
WOW!@@whitetrashroyal
Красивое катание в сочетании исполнений сложных элементов! Класс! Искусство и спорт переплелись!
When ones On fire!!!!
Did both she and Witt repeat their programs from the year before? Was that acceptable back then?
beauty talent personality, the perfect woman
Приятно смотреть на счастливые лица
Debi Thomas skated magnificently here! Unfortunately, Katerina Witt won.
if she'd skated this program in Calgary 1988, she would have won gold.
please dont start me about that, I love Debi too much!
Debi was beautifull, but Kati was a litlle bit better.
Great skater and became a doctor
This is about as well as Debi could skate at a major skating event and they don't come bigger than the World's unless it's the Olympics.
Debi landed all her five triples and in variety:. triple toe, triple loop, triple Salchow.
Katarina only had the triple toe and loop.
Yet Witt still beat Thomas in the artistic marks.
That was the judges' calling card to award Witt the higher marks in case both skaters skated their best, which is what happened on this rare night when both skaters peaked.
Debi had that look of resignation once she saw Katarina won the World title again.
Thomas 2 footed her 3Lo, witt didn’t
Katarina didn't do any salchows? Did you watch the same competition? 🤔...
They were equally matched technically, Katarina just skated clean 🤷♂️
@@warren1564 exactly . Katarina never skated better , including 3 toe 3 , sal, and loop
What music did she skate 2?
Debi should've won gold but her head was not in the right place that night and her coach wasn't strong enough to give her the mental support she needed. Debi was stubborn too but it made her a fighter. She just needed more help and support than she got. Americans need better Olympic training and support programs. No one in govt gives these young American olympic athletes as much help as the Russians get from their govt and morally that's not fair. When Americans win, everyone steps in and takes credit, but when they lose, people abandon them. We need a better system for our athletes getting there and staying there. These are young kids capable of doing amazing things and as such need more support.
Ich mag sie sehr. Was ist aus ihr geworden?
2:22 Pete Rose. Oy. That reference didn't age well.
💐❄️👍🇫🇮
She skated stronger than Katerina.
Great performance. Americans seem to not focus on the importance of arm movements like Europeans and Russians do.
Maybe with Thomas but I wouldn’t say the same think for Kadavy or Trenary. Kadavy in particular.
Actually Debi was coached by Mikhail Baryshnikov!
Debby has so beautiful skatingdress's as well.
Elle ne serait même pas qualifié a notre époque. Le niveau a tellement évolué.
Katarina was the only skater who played mind games with her fellow skaters.
She would show up rink side just when her closest competitor (most cases, Debi) was ready to take the ice to watch her skate.
Katarina also made sure her competitor saw her standing rink side.
That is what we call "gamesmanship" and "intimidation".
Of course she was within her right to do this, but none of the other skaters did this.
It should have been banned during competition bc it was not fair to the other skaters.
That's right. Katarina was one of the skaters who clearly did gamesmanship. Every sport has a few who do this. However, Katarina didn't have to rely on that behaviour that much because she already had biased judging on her side!
At the 88 Olympics were hard to take! for once I totally agree with you! Witts Coach was a real class act her name was Uta Muller, and she was way better than Alec McGowan, sorry but he sometime would put a lot of pressure on Debi only IMO, I just couldnt stand Katty and I thought she played up to the stupid judges who were too preoccupied with Thomas Black body Stocking which was absoultely STRIKING!
🤣🤣🤣
Katerina Witt was good but no comparison to Debbie's dymamic skating..Katerina's west side story ,and unrelated costume,just didnt impact..
Too bad she landed those last two triples on two feet. Probably cost her the title. Fantastic skate otherwise
Dynamics but mistakes in details. And one jump 2-footed. Witt far, far better. Mrs Thomas won in 1986 due to mistake of Katerina Witt. She never made such mistake again until her comeback in 1992. But this is another story...
Who ever was doing her music and choreography really oughta be zapped.
The program needed to be totally revamped.
The musical sections sounded like they were pieced together by a third grader and the choreography needed refinement.
I believe had Debi skated this well at Calgary Olympics, Katerina would've still beaten her in the artistic marks.
That's what happened here.
So there is no what woulda or what if, the judges were tilted towards Witt.
To be fair, a lot of music in this period was still coming from records. By the very last point of the late 80s, the use of cassette and CD became the source of music. And yes, Katarina always had the biased judging on her side, and the guidance from judging panels, but you have to give her credit for performing when it was time to do it. But again, she had the help from judges for most of her career. At this competition, the gap between Thomas and Witt was so thin. Thomas did a fine job and her program is a champions program, so it could have gone her way too.
Actually,I thought the music was great,,especially the first piece that showcased her powerful skating,,I believe she had worked with Mikhail Baryshnikov for dance elements..
The judges cheated Debi and left room for Katarina to beat her. Debi's performance was a winning champion performance.
I remember watching this when it aired. It was so electric. After the performance of Caryn Kadavy, Debi Thomas, and Katarina Witt it was just a special night of skating. This is truly a matter of not having to win the Gold medal, it really was about skating your best. With her injuries, school, and losing her US Title this had to be more than gratifying....
Talent, Talent, Talent!
Miss her so very much.
Still get cheers watching this performance 24 years after the fact. I saw this performance ( as well as the short program) in person in Cincinnati in 1987.
If Debi would have skated that way in 1988, she would have won the Olympics and the World Championships.
Yes but imagine training for the Olympics and studying to be a doctor at the same time???
Debi is a legend.
Wonderful! !!!
It's funny that someone in the audience gave her a Domino's pizza after she finished performing.
LOL I was wondering if that was a pizza! Imagine them just throwing the box on the ice like the flowers LOL
Hmm. That is interesting. Maybe some inside joke or something? Maybe a fan wanting to stand out ?
Дэби, молодец, браво!!! 🔥 🔥 🔥
wonderful program...awesome!!!
I love her choice of music, Vortex and Meditation, which was the slow part. Vortex suited her powerful and athletic style. Her costume was pretty traditional for that period, with mainly Katarina Witt deviating from it. I was at these 87 Worlds in Cincinnati. Debt electrified the Riverfront Colorful crowd with this performance.
She was a fighter, no doubt about that.
awesome!!!
oMG I love you debi!
Superb!!!!
She is the best
To those who say that "a one-time world champion world champion has nothing left to prove" I remember that a two-time world champion is twice as big as a single one... and Katarina Witt is a four-time world champion and a two-time Olympic champion... Now, that's pure bravery.
snowballwannabe what is you're point....Katarina was really lucky to win a few of those titles...and did not skate cleanly either.
Katherina was just lucky to win so many titles he?
Debbi was a cow..what about this statement?
Witt was assured gold just by showing up. It didn’t matter how she skated (often laughably). Most overrated skater in figure skating history.
@@xxthatpookieeditsxx : and you are a 🐖 speaking like that.
Katarina was the only skater who played mind games with her fellow skaters.
She would show up rink side just when her closest competitor (most cases, Debi) was ready to take the ice to watch her skate.
Katarina also made sure her competitor saw her standing rink side.
That is what we call "gamesmanship" and "intimidation".
Of course she was within her right to do this, but none of the other skaters did this.
It should have been banned during competition bc it was not fair to the other skaters.
Gotta love Debi!!
Witt did skate the performance of her life. For the firsst time in her career, Witt landed 5 triples in a competition, including a triple loop, her nemesis. Witt did not even attempt a triple loop at the 88 Olympics.
Witt is a pretty skater.
But does not have the energy or presence like Debi..
SUPERB!
This was the program, that Debi should have skated at Calgary. Who knows if she could have won, but this program worked for her and was very comfortable. She knew, that she could win with this program, but who knows. That is pure speculation and hypothetical.
I hope she can get a new life. I feel sorry for her
What happened to her?
That double axle at 3.30 is sublime .
Ann Murthil Sublime is compliment.
One good double axel does not make a champion.
@@amybaker4654 She's a champion in my eyes.
@@annmurthil3299 "sublime": tending to inspire awe because of elevated quality or beauty.
i wish this personalities were successful in the private lives as well as in the ring!!!
I remember seeing this live on Television. This peformance at these Championships would have won her the Olympic Gold Medal. She was vey dynamic.
@mlc2005 They were allowed to repeat one jump I believe all the others had to be in combo. If that isnt the case, remember that there were leap entrances which made them combos.
why are black skaters always described as athletic in a sport that has to be athletic in the first place. Thomas has great carriage and lines, and those should noted by the commentators.
stop looking for racism that doesnt exist
not in quantity. tiffany chin had the flip & a triple axel in the early 80s. midori ito also had a triple lutz by the mid 80s. liz manley had a triple lutz at least by 1988. it wasn't exactly a jumping competition though back then so more complete skaters were able to win.
@rickram1961 "Vortex" from motion picture soundtrack of "The Turning Point."
You really gotta hand it to her... fulltime pre-med student and fulltime skater. So many projects at once! And success!!
Her scores should have been higher.
Yep. 💯
Disagree with you! She double footed (big time) her 3Loop and didn't get her free leg out on time on her 1st 3Salchow. Presentation wise, at times she seemed distracted and void of emotions during her presentation. I believe her scores overall were just about right.
I wonder if the not great (under-marked?) technical scores are why she added the triple -triple combo for 1988....to get a leg up on Katarina since she may have expected to win after this good performance.
No they were about right. Sorry but she just wasn't as good a skater as Witt.
@@stevebbuk well in 1988, Katarina skated to Carmen, along with Debi at the Olympics in Calgary. Dick Button made a comment, that during Katarina's long program skate, almost a minute all Katarina did was skating, without a jump. While Katarina was a beautiful skater, Debi improved by leaps and bounds in terms of how she skated at US Nationals in 1988, but this is a showstopper. This was the program that won her, her only World Title, being the only female skater to defeat Katarina. Did the nerves get to Debi at the Olympics. I think so.
She would have been a legend. She still kind of is
i know her personally. She is an amazing woman indeed.
She IS A LEGEND
@@denisecharles5622 Is she doing well? I heard she went through a rough patch.
She skates here so slooooow
That could explain why her marks were poor.
This was a great skate but I see no reason she deserved silver over Kadavy. Her only triple loop was badly two footed while Caryn had 2 clean triple loops. And better artistry and choreography too.
Yes, but Kadavy was coming in from fifth and Debi was in the top three. Ordinals would make it almost impossible for her to beat Debi. Needed three places difference between them.
Before 1991, there was also the compulsory figures portion of the competition that made a huge difference in the final outcome a lot of the times. It also created a lot of confusion with fans at home and even at the competitions.
@@metsdudenj actually there was a logjam at the top after CF and SP here... the factored placings going into the LP were Ivanova 3.0, Witt 3.4, Thomas 4.0, Manley 4.4, Kadavy 4.4, Leistner 5.0. So Kadavy could have passed Thomas overall just by beating her by one place in the LP.
@rickram1961 : Debi really should not have won the 87 worlds! Come on. I'm from the US, and I'm not a huge Witt fan at all, but that free of hers was truly her best ever, and even I loved it! Witt won fair and square.
Nope, Debi was way better. She has better basic skating skills, better jumps, and better spins. Witt was very overrated. Especially in 1994 when her quality of skating had very much declined. Debi deserved this win.
@mlc2005 Yes, much like the combination Jill Trenary did at the 1988 Nationals in the LP where she did a split - triple toe loe - sort of a falling leaf split jump. Such were considered combinations through to the 1988 season.
@kittykooty - And Debí would have won had ave not wobbled on the triple salchow landing, or If she had not touched a hand down on the ice attempting a double Axel during the short program. As far as Kadavy: coulda, woulda, shoulda.
彼女とヴィットは前年と同じプログラムを使っていたので、録画したテープを早いうちに消した覚えがある。同じプログラムを複数年使った時に減点の対象にならないのだろうか？と疑問を持った。翌年の🎵カルメンのプログラムは彼女のもヴィットのも、いい出来とは感じられ無かった。
It's sad what happened to her
Split jumps and Skag(sp?) jumps counted as combinations.
Stag?
What was the music from that she skated to?
Was it Vortex? from the movie?
quick question: I noticed she did two salchows, not in combination. I know the rules say the skater has to do one in combo in order to repeat the jump. Did the split jump count as part of a combo back then? Just curious.
At the time it could be a sequence of jumps and she did do a 2Lz on the end of some steps after the second 3S
Yes,with a split jump,it is concidered a combo..
A gold medal performance..
No it was inferior to Katarina's and the sycophancy shown to Ms. Thomas by the American commentator and judge was grating.
Yes, it was a gold medal performance. You could watch another country's broadcast and still see it. But the competition ended up Witt sneaking through. There wasn't much of a gap between them.
@@alexsdb9712 It wasn't sneaking through at all. Katarina's performance was superior in every way, apart from the partisan crowd who had no conception of what they were about to witness.
@@stevebbuk You love Katarina, we get it. We understand. Me, I'm not a big fan of either, so my type of views and approach will be severely different than yours. Have a nice day and enjoy the figure skating.
@@alexsdb9712 And you love Deby, we get it.
She is now an orthopedic surgeon.
Was. She is not anymore.
I think Debi's footwork was more dynamic and her sit spin was lower, but she didn't do enough rotations on the spin to show that she could really sit in it. once or twice, I thought her extension could have been better. The wobbling on the salchow landing and the fact that she was entering this from 3rd place did her in. Not that Katarina was perfect. Her sit spin was more of a crouch than a sit, and her spiral was very low. Her footwork was uninspiring. On any given day, this could have gone any of 3 ways, but it came out like this.
I thought Kadavy should have won atleast silver over Thomas, if not possibly the gold. She was screwed by politics and pecking order.
You gotta hand it to the "Witch of East Germany", she didn't get psyched out by the crowd's roars for Debi before her own program. In fact, she skated even better than expected. That's a true competitor.
The music edits are atrocious
That was pretty common in the eighties
agree
But, no disco?
those technical marks could have been higher!
@TeamKween2010 sorry i accidently voted you down! i meant up!
Wow such a shame she didn't get awarded the gold, but then I guess what did she have to prove? Once a world champion always a world champion :)
Great figure skating, so athletic, but I despise her music and her costumes (mostly, all) xD
I didn't care much for the first selection, but the slow middle part and the ending were great. Music from two operas: Thais and Un Ballo in Maschera and Debi took advantage of the opportunity the music offered with great choreography.. Opera music lends itself to figure skating.
Did she become a doctor, I wonder?
Yes but she lost her license.
@@betteurbain7911 She was in debt and could not pay for her license renewal, She was a good surgeon and well liked by her patients.
@@belartful Thanks, Belita. So sad. I love Debi. Her skating and becoming a doctor are very impressive, especially with the institutional racism. I wish her well.
OH come on! let's don't be ridiculous... She skated well but Katarina was way better. For starters, she hit the triple loop perfectly, which is missing in Debi's program (once the second foot is down, a jump is not counted); footworks and spins were much much better than Debi's.
@@azbycx56 IMO Kadavy should have probably won even over Witt. She deserved atleast 2nd. The top 3 were all great though. Trenary and Ito also had very good skates that night, although not in medal contention. Great night of skating.
Debi has a dynamic quality and power in her skating that Katerina does not have..it isn't abount looking pretty out there! (Kat may have the triple loop but does not have triple triple like Deb!)
@@belartful she did not perform any triple triple here (while Katarina DID perform the triple loop), and she double footed two jumps, so I really don't know what you're talking about, really... "having" a technical element doesn't make any difference if you don't ACTUALLY perform it. You don't win a competition based on your potential/theoretical elements. As a matter of fact Katarina had triple flip in her arsenal, though she did not present it here, so...
They do have two completely different styles, and one may prefer one to the other. Debi has a more athletic/powerful presentation, but is certainly not more "dynamic" than Katarina's. Katarina's gift is to make her technical elements seem more effortless, and her interpretation and artistic expression is something Debi does not possess. Have you actually watched her performance????
Totally lack of emotion! Just jumps ...
Yuri Zivago - You mean lack of posing, flirting with judges, a la Katarina Witt? When it came to pure skating, Debi was much better than Witt. Her techniques, her lines and positions, and yes, her jumps. Dick Button once said about Witt: “ Her lines and positions are NOT first-rate.”
@@MrOu83 Well Dick Button could have been biased couldn't he?Witt may not have been popular with the Americans for beating US skaters in competitions,well thats tough,sour grapes and all that.Witt was abetter skater,this programme was not one of her best really.Her Carman routine was very strong on artistic content and required elements were good.
@@MrOu83 Maybe, but along those lines Kadavy is better than both and got no credit from the judges for it.
The 5.7’s are too low - she did much better than that, despite the 2-footed loop
These were the Witt years. That means her biased judging and guiding was a factor. Credit to her for performing when it counted, but at times, there were skaters who even topped her already-great performances and Witt still got the win.
Figure skating has always been a racist sport she’s one of the greatest skaters ever to hit the ice. I loved watching her as a little girl and she was a force to be reckoned with.
She was obviously competing against better skaters ,this lacks speed amd she is just skating from one jump or spin to another without much artistry ,thats a big part of the score.This is slow and if you watch ,she doesn't really skate to the music,it wasn't a great choice .
Of course it is racist when you dont agree with the result. Yet it must have also been so racist in 1986 when she won the US and World title.
The artistic marks were always Debi's undoing. She had never beaten Katerina thru artistic presentation, it was always technical merit marks.
The thing with figure skating is that you have to be there in the arena to really see how the performances are. Television makes the performances appear bit more fast on the ice. By this point, saying the sport is racist, is done. Because by the late 80s the world already had seen many champions from different countries and ethnic backgrounds. On top of that, Debi was the defending world champion, she had won seasonal competitions, had been the U.S. champion, etc. Discrimination though is different, which unfortunately did happen in a socio-economic way, even inside a country to its own skaters.
Debi was horribly under scored for the Free Skate of her career. Debi should have won the Gold instead of Katarina's so so Free Skate!
Not a Katarina fan but you obviously didnt see her skate at thhis event if you think it was so so.
She was overscored - 5.9’s for 2 footing 2 triple jumps 🤷🏽♀️
you are so wrong it is sad
You are all crying a river here...Debbie this, Debbie that. Should have would have..if,if if.....
In fact she just didn't have what it took to win against Katherina Witt.
Keep crying..
Amen.
Katerina is just a pretty skating Snob..No comparison to the blood sweat and tears, exciting,skating presence of American Debi Thomas..Here,Debie was cheated out of the Gold..She did have what it takes to beat Katerina ,and much more..