Great video Justin I was just learning some more alternate picking and found another reason to learn it: TIMING! For myself I can play quicker economy picking but noticed that when changing direction on the inside of the string specifically, it creates a poor timing and lousy pick attack on that "turnaround" note. So now I started switching up my inside-picking when reversing directions to straight alternate picking, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A MUCH LONGER APPROACH it can actually be played overall faster!! To put it visually, in a run I might play where the rhythm sounds like this economy picking X-- X-- X- x--- X- x--- X-- X-- X ... etc. all herky-jerky even they are all supposed to be 16th notes or whatever. Sure, I got all the notes in there in the proper amount of time (say half of a measure), but there are some "hiccups" in there. TLDR: with economy picking you are sometimes actually needing more energy to cover less distance because of all the brakes you have to put on to get back going the other way; While alternate you're 100% mechanical if you can do it properly.
I basically use every technique for specific situations. I do practice alternate picking where it really matters to me. I left the camp of "I need to be able to alternate pick everything", though. I had my personal moment of clarity when I decoupled myself from general guitar teacher "knowledge" and started to think about what all my favorite guitarists do to achieve their sound and if there is somewhat of a common denominator that would determine my personal taste. At least to some degree. And it turns out that almost none of my favorite players really relies heavily on alternate picking when it comes to lead guitar playing. Most of my favorite players use economy picking/sweeping, hybrid picking and legato. So, that's the techniques I really started focusing on from that moment on to today.
i like the struggle of each note that alternate picking provides it forces quality. Im explosive playing with directional picking yet i dont feel it causes me to progress as it is too easy. I compare my playing to me.
I think for lead playing swybrid picking is a good balance between the two, where at least when you're ascending, the pluck your middle finger does effectively acts as your upstroke. And then use economy picking when you're playing anything on descending strings. I spent the better part of the pandemic learning swybrid from Marshall Harrison's intro to swybrid video and I was able to incorporate it into my regular runs and whatnot enough to where it sounds good to me at least. As far as rhythm playing goes (in the heavy rock/metal world), then it's alternate all the way, hands down. There's almost a night and day difference when it comes to the actual tone and articulation of how your playing sounds with alternate as opposed to economy picking.
Swybrid was a game changer for me once i nailed it. As for economy vs alternate, I can go a bit faster with economy but alternate is better for a harder/more aggressive sound. Alternate all the way for metal rythm like you said.
great video and important topic. I also tried to get faster through economy picking for years, but it was a terrible time, frustrating and sometimes completely unusable on certain runs. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who thinks it will make you faster.
thx for your comments. directional picking does make a player fast but its like a car without brakes, difficult to hold time . Alternate outside picking enables timekeeping, creativity and a zen like balance as for each string the pick starting and stopping flips, starting with an upstroke and downstrokes leads to balance its like samurai training. I love sitting for hours just experiencing the new ideas and timing sequences. Ive looked for this for three decades and never understood that this simple gift was right in front of me dont think i was ready, second week now of strict outside alternate picking.
I've had the same issues when trying to "graduate" to purely economy. My AP started going to sh*t as I was less aware of what my picking hand was doing. And having to count how many notes per string I played in order to go up or down was a pain in the ass. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Frank Gambale's playing and I've stolen a few licks of his, so I do use sweep/economy picking here and there, but I went back to AP as my main technique. Speaking of the Glasgow Kiss intro, yeah, I hear you. I can only play it somewhat decently with AP. I've tried economy picking and my picking hand gets lost in the way. To each his own, I guess. Shred on, bro!
Hi Justin. Alternate picking can be done: From low notes to high start with upstroke From high to low start with downstroke. Both these will be a bit like inside picking and is a bit odd eg sixth string 5,7,8, u-d-u then fifth string 5-7-8, d-u-d notice there is minimal leaping over strings. I prefer this: low notes to high is downstroke high noted to low is upstroke for starting. Why? More pick attack as you have to leap the string. Alternate picking as ive just mentioned is more balanced: better memory of phrases and enhanced creativity ideal yin yang. Directional economy inside picking is faster but more smooth less pick attack and harder to keep time. eg 5,7,8 sixth string, d-u-d same on fifth string. Descending 1st string 8,7,5 u-d-u same as on second string. Its too fast and doesnt isolate each note. One week now focusing on strict alternate outside picking been playing since 1987. Its so so rewarding i train for hours. Again i use down to start from low to highnotes ascending, and up to start from high to low notes descending. Yes exactly directional economy picking is limiting! Mathematically i looked at it one week ago and while the speed is initially rewarding i saw the limitations and stopped using it in favor of alternate picking. I even alternate pick arpeggios rather than sweeping its harder and yet gets me thinking of each note quality and helps creativity. Last point: The string transfer can be affected by pick width. I encourage players to try the feel of a 0.6 mm, 0.71mm, 0.88 mm, 1 mm and 1.5 mm. I prefer a thinner pick mostly 0.88 but the brighter sound of a 0.6 mm also helps the picking hand to use less force otherwise fatigue sets in much like doing speed work on olympic lifts in weightlifting. The 1.5 mm is too stiff and dull sounding, to me at least although a players muscles can determine what pick width to use. Ive been thinking about these ideas this last week. Yes! Take the time to learn outside alternate picking it teaches yin yang balance, hence the zen of picking!
As someone who is backwards (lefty playing righty) and who learned how to economy pick naturally opposed to alternate as I began playing I DEFINITELY agree with the rhythm part especially. I've been attempting to play catch up with my alternate picking for the better part of the last decade. If you ever wondered why 99.99999% of my playing is arpeggio based that's definitely why!
To me it’s a choice of articulations more than it is one being better than the other. Used to talk about this with George Bellas. To me the biggest difference lies in the smoother articulation of economy picking as opposed to the snappy sound you can get from the alternate sound.
I decided to ditch the pick couple of years back, so I don’t need to wrap my head around picking techniques no more. But I’ve tried and practiced everything through the years. And what made the difference to me was becoming hyper aware of subdivision, note groupings, note accents and fretboard knowledge. Once I mastered those things I felt pretty much ok doing anything needed when needed. Alternate picking everything in my humble opinion gives somewhat of a shortcut in some terms. You give yourself less choice and you choose the one that works the most (not necessarily the best) in most cases. The downside of that is that not everyone is a highly proficient alternate picker, I definitely wasn’t, and sometimes it feels a bit too flat, while mixing techniques makes the phrasing move a little more. Anyways, very good video mate, great intro too!
I do a weird thing where I do alternate picking on ascending runs and economy on descending runs. I was never able to do economy picking faat enough ascending but descending was never a problem. To me, there is a pulling motion in descending sweeps that make it easy for me.
@@justin.hombachyeah, i'm not sure if I should keep doing that or if I should try practicing straight alternate picking, It seems to be an unconscious decision and doesn't have a noticeable impact on speed or tone
@@Kriegter I started to work on this a lot, because it helped me especially in inside picking lines (Locke 3 notes on the high e string, 3 notes on the high b string etc)
What is a "sweeper"? It's just a technique that people use. There is no guitarist who classifies as a sweeper. What about Alex Skolnick for example? He plays some tasteful solo's with a sweep here and there. Is Alex Skolnick a sweeper now?
It triggered me a bit that the two scenes were mixed but that was funny as hell 😅
Alternate is useful in far more situations. It also sounds better with palm muting.
intro is so funny, but where is Steve Morse?
Great video Justin I was just learning some more alternate picking and found another reason to learn it: TIMING!
For myself I can play quicker economy picking but noticed that when changing direction on the inside of the string specifically, it creates a poor timing and lousy pick attack on that "turnaround" note. So now I started switching up my inside-picking when reversing directions to straight alternate picking, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A MUCH LONGER APPROACH it can actually be played overall faster!!
To put it visually, in a run I might play where the rhythm sounds like this economy picking X-- X-- X- x--- X- x--- X-- X-- X ... etc. all herky-jerky even they are all supposed to be 16th notes or whatever. Sure, I got all the notes in there in the proper amount of time (say half of a measure), but there are some "hiccups" in there.
TLDR: with economy picking you are sometimes actually needing more energy to cover less distance because of all the brakes you have to put on to get back going the other way; While alternate you're 100% mechanical if you can do it properly.
I basically use every technique for specific situations. I do practice alternate picking where it really matters to me. I left the camp of "I need to be able to alternate pick everything", though. I had my personal moment of clarity when I decoupled myself from general guitar teacher "knowledge" and started to think about what all my favorite guitarists do to achieve their sound and if there is somewhat of a common denominator that would determine my personal taste. At least to some degree. And it turns out that almost none of my favorite players really relies heavily on alternate picking when it comes to lead guitar playing. Most of my favorite players use economy picking/sweeping, hybrid picking and legato. So, that's the techniques I really started focusing on from that moment on to today.
i like the struggle of each note that alternate picking provides it forces quality.
Im explosive playing with directional picking yet i dont feel it causes me to progress as it is too easy.
I compare my playing to me.
moment of clarity! Great Death song:)
the best players that I listen to use both for specific situations.
I think for lead playing swybrid picking is a good balance between the two, where at least when you're ascending, the pluck your middle finger does effectively acts as your upstroke. And then use economy picking when you're playing anything on descending strings. I spent the better part of the pandemic learning swybrid from Marshall Harrison's intro to swybrid video and I was able to incorporate it into my regular runs and whatnot enough to where it sounds good to me at least.
As far as rhythm playing goes (in the heavy rock/metal world), then it's alternate all the way, hands down. There's almost a night and day difference when it comes to the actual tone and articulation of how your playing sounds with alternate as opposed to economy picking.
Swybrid was a game changer for me once i nailed it. As for economy vs alternate, I can go a bit faster with economy but alternate is better for a harder/more aggressive sound. Alternate all the way for metal rythm like you said.
Marshall is an animal
great video and important topic. I also tried to get faster through economy picking for years, but it was a terrible time, frustrating and sometimes completely unusable on certain runs. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who thinks it will make you faster.
thx for your comments. directional picking does make a player fast but its like a car without brakes, difficult to hold time .
Alternate outside picking enables timekeeping, creativity and a zen like balance as for each string the pick starting and stopping flips, starting with an upstroke and downstrokes leads to balance its like samurai training.
I love sitting for hours just experiencing the new ideas and timing sequences. Ive looked for this for three decades and never understood that this simple gift was right in front of me dont think i was ready, second week now of strict outside alternate picking.
@@5zazen Alternate Picking is my passion 🙆 best wishes from germany
@@MetalMaik Ja toll!!!
I've had the same issues when trying to "graduate" to purely economy. My AP started going to sh*t as I was less aware of what my picking hand was doing. And having to count how many notes per string I played in order to go up or down was a pain in the ass. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Frank Gambale's playing and I've stolen a few licks of his, so I do use sweep/economy picking here and there, but I went back to AP as my main technique. Speaking of the Glasgow Kiss intro, yeah, I hear you. I can only play it somewhat decently with AP. I've tried economy picking and my picking hand gets lost in the way. To each his own, I guess.
Shred on, bro!
Hi Justin.
Alternate picking can be done:
From low notes to high start with upstroke
From high to low start with downstroke.
Both these will be a bit like inside picking and is a bit odd eg sixth string 5,7,8, u-d-u then fifth string 5-7-8, d-u-d notice there is minimal leaping over strings.
I prefer this:
low notes to high is downstroke
high noted to low is upstroke for starting. Why? More pick attack as you have to leap the string.
Alternate picking as ive just mentioned is more balanced: better memory of phrases and enhanced creativity ideal yin yang.
Directional economy inside picking is faster but more smooth less pick attack and harder to keep time.
eg 5,7,8 sixth string, d-u-d same on fifth string.
Descending 1st string 8,7,5 u-d-u same as on second string.
Its too fast and doesnt isolate each note.
One week now focusing on strict alternate outside picking been playing since 1987. Its so so rewarding i train for hours.
Again i use down to start from low to highnotes ascending, and up to start from high to low notes descending.
Yes exactly directional economy picking is limiting! Mathematically i looked at it one week ago and while the speed is initially rewarding i saw the limitations and stopped using it in favor of alternate picking.
I even alternate pick arpeggios rather than sweeping its harder and yet gets me thinking of each note quality and helps creativity.
Last point: The string transfer can be affected by pick width. I encourage players to try the feel of a 0.6 mm, 0.71mm, 0.88 mm, 1 mm and 1.5 mm. I prefer a thinner pick mostly 0.88 but the brighter sound of a 0.6 mm also helps the picking hand to use less force otherwise fatigue sets in much like doing speed work on olympic lifts in weightlifting. The 1.5 mm is too stiff and dull sounding, to me at least although a players muscles can determine what pick width to use.
Ive been thinking about these ideas this last week.
Yes! Take the time to learn outside alternate picking it teaches yin yang balance, hence the zen of picking!
I use both, where they are needed, respectively
Should have also put Anton at the end coming downhill and destroying everything with you guys hahaha 😊
I love everything about this intro
As someone who is backwards (lefty playing righty) and who learned how to economy pick naturally opposed to alternate as I began playing I DEFINITELY agree with the rhythm part especially. I've been attempting to play catch up with my alternate picking for the better part of the last decade. If you ever wondered why 99.99999% of my playing is arpeggio based that's definitely why!
To me it’s a choice of articulations more than it is one being better than the other. Used to talk about this with George Bellas. To me the biggest difference lies in the smoother articulation of economy picking as opposed to the snappy sound you can get from the alternate sound.
I decided to ditch the pick couple of years back, so I don’t need to wrap my head around picking techniques no more. But I’ve tried and practiced everything through the years. And what made the difference to me was becoming hyper aware of subdivision, note groupings, note accents and fretboard knowledge. Once I mastered those things I felt pretty much ok doing anything needed when needed. Alternate picking everything in my humble opinion gives somewhat of a shortcut in some terms. You give yourself less choice and you choose the one that works the most (not necessarily the best) in most cases. The downside of that is that not everyone is a highly proficient alternate picker, I definitely wasn’t, and sometimes it feels a bit too flat, while mixing techniques makes the phrasing move a little more. Anyways, very good video mate, great intro too!
Al Dimeola Sauron made my day dude 😂. This was great
7:14 Story of my life. I've been working on my alternate picking the last few years and I've noticed a huge improvement in my playing overall.
Your pick looks BIG !
Was ist das bitte für ein mega geiles Intro!!!!!!!!!!😁👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great video 10/10
I do a weird thing where I do alternate picking on ascending runs and economy on descending runs. I was never able to do economy picking faat enough ascending but descending was never a problem. To me, there is a pulling motion in descending sweeps that make it easy for me.
I did the same for years without knowing it 🫣🫣
@@justin.hombachyeah, i'm not sure if I should keep doing that or if I should try practicing straight alternate picking, It seems to be an unconscious decision and doesn't have a noticeable impact on speed or tone
@@Kriegter I started to work on this a lot, because it helped me especially in inside picking lines (Locke 3 notes on the high e string, 3 notes on the high b string etc)
Jeff Loomis does that, too.
Alter
Bestes Intro Ever ❤❤❤❤
please make a analysis of marshal harrison's technique
Troy Grady should have been Gandalf the White
Hi, what type of picks are you using? Looks very thick. Thanks
I always catch on my upstrokes. Any suggestions?
was ein geiles Intro 🤣🤣😂😂
doesnt rick graham use mostly economy picking?
Justin, if you were to cover an Yngwie song, would you still use alternate picking, or economy?
It all boils down to how much time and effort you want to dedicate to a single technique
Lol not even. You use both if you're trying to play effectively
Is that why you neglect Eric Johnson so much?
There are soooo many guitar players out there :D It is hard to analyze all of them. I'm aware of him but don't know to much.. just a few songs
next headline:
why melodic phrasing beats shredding 😊
Uh good point ☺️
Peter Jackson would like to have a word...
❤💪🏻🤘🏻🙏
Alternate dont beat economy never!!!
Oh yeah? Then try running 2-3-2 note per string runs. Or 2-3-4.
@@ismelljello I do that all the time! Economy better!
bla di wor
For me the only sweeper that sounds like real music is frank gambale
What is a "sweeper"? It's just a technique that people use. There is no guitarist who classifies as a sweeper. What about Alex Skolnick for example? He plays some tasteful solo's with a sweep here and there. Is Alex Skolnick a sweeper now?
Maybe Adam Rogers to be checked...
Al Di Meola sir