The U.S. And Europe Are Fighting Back On Chinese-Made EVs With Tariffs. Why, How, and What's Next.
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- Earlier this month, U.S. President Joe Biden made the decision to increase the tariffs levied on Chinese-made products being imported to the U.S. - including EVs.
Shortly after, the European Union suggested it might soon impose new tougher tariffs on Chinese-made and imported-to-Europe electric vehicles.
But why are these tariffs being carried out? Is China subsidizing its domestic auto production for export purposes? And just what will the consequence of this all be?
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00:00 - Introduction
02:06 - Editorial note on China's human rights issues
03:35 - We do not condone China's actions
04:50 - The two sides of Chinese EVs today
06:11 - It's not just vehicles...
06:48 - Chinese-made EVs being imported is a political hot potato - but it's not about safety
07:55 - eBikes do have different safety rules
09:09 - Twin concerns: pricing and cybersecurity
09:29 - China's unfair cost advantage
10:48 - We are all hypocrites
12:05 - Chicken tax, anyone?
14:01 - Loopholes?
14:48 - Cybersecurity
15:33 - China IS ahead - and it's coming for legacy autos (and that might not be a bad thing)
16:09 - Thanks, and Goodbye!
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Presenter, Script, Audio: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Camera, Editor, Colorist: M. Horton
Art and Animation: Erin Carlie
Producer: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
© Transport Evolved LLC, 2024
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Авто/Мото
The USA is the last place to lecture anyone about workers rights.
And stealing IP
The bloated North American auto manufacturing industry is the problem in my humble opinion. The neoliberal system they run on where profits for investors trumps everything and stifles innovation. The unionized workforce is always the first to be blamed for the lack of innovation when in reality it’s the investor class.
It's not neoliberalism that's causing this, it's purely and squarely corporate greed
Correct
Actual and factual
^^^This.
All of This.
Amen
You might be interested in a really good new book called "The Invisible Doctrine". It's all about neoliberalism, where it came from, what it's about and all the damage it has done.
The US taxpayer props up the American vehicle manufacturing industry, so its no different to what the Chinese government is doing.
The difference here is the cost of living is lower in China and Chinese Automotive manufacturers dont have a unionised workforce, so this too drives down the cost of each vehicle produced.
Legacy Auto hampered by a unionist workforce is why their manufacturing plants are less automated, I understand that people need jobs, but if this leads to your company not having a competitive edge and the latest manufacturing technology then eventually you will go bankrupt even if the government keeps pouring in taxpayer money to keep you afoat in the short term.
If the Chinese open up manufacturing plants in the USA, then the US legacy automotive manufacturers will fail in the future as consumers demand choice at more reasonable prices.
All phones, home assistants connected to the internet are harvesting your data, i mean worst case your Chinese Ev reports back to the motherland were you drive each day and your favourite tunes you listen too, is that what people are worried about? If you are that concerned you just need to remove the vehicle's simcard so it has no connectivity to the outside world.
Why do you think companies like Apple manufacture their products in China and not the USA? It's all about the bottom line and maximising profits.
Exactly.
Neoliberalism 101.
Commodify everything.
Free markets can fix everything.
Lower taxes.
Deregulate everything.
Part of why I'm not that concerned about GM's idiotic plan to force out AA/Carplay; I suspect GM's days are numbered.
WRT Chinese cars sending data back to their makers, I'm not particularly trusting what US or Japanese OEMs do with similar data. I'm guessing if Chinese companies want to know the intimate details of how I'm using my car, they can probably just buy that data from a broker already.
GM actually has a lot of things going on with EV. I'm pretty sure that GM would survive; not sure about Ford though.
FWIW, the US believes it has proof that China is unfairly subsidizing EVs. That's the rationale for the hike in tariffs. Having said that, I don't care. Gimme a Chinese made EV! They look great, get great reviews, and are a size I want and a price I can afford!
Isn't the American CHIPS act one giant subsidy?
Absolutely!
This policy is just the usual hypocrisy from the US.
15:30 We can't have China having our data! US Companies need to monetize that data!
Copyright is supposed to protect intellectual innovation . The international community seems to do nothing when China takes what is not theirs.
*fucked
Exactly.
The fear mongering about China gathering your data is kinda hilarious when we know that gigantic corporations already know way to much about us, and that they are very happy to share with our own government.
@@mikewallace8087I'm honestly not that bothered even if China is stealing intellectual property from giant corporations that are making tens of billions already if its using that tech to bring better products to less affluent people around the world.
When I bought my MG5 almost 2 years ago I’d say the price was maybe 20% below an equivalent EU made EV. But since then prices have been drastically cut so it’s probably on a par now. The fact that prices came down so fast just shows how EU and US car makers were ripping us off! I could have bought an American made EV, but I’d rather not put money in the pocket of someone who’s anti-union, anti-LGBT, and generally anti-social.
😂😂America & Europe can't compete with China EV's 😂
Honestly anyone who would be seeking to discuss EVs and the EV trade war attempting to hold the tide of Chinese EVs, batteries and solar panels should look no further than Transport Evolved for rock solid advice
But what defines the nationality of a company that has been floated on the stock market?
For example you can buy shares in Duetsche Bank and a people from a wide world can buy shares.
So when Americans buy from American car companies to only benefit US car companies, they are probably benefiting Swiss bankers.
I doubt many Chinese auto manufacturers are incorporated in Delaware.
@@avsystem3142 why does it matter where a company is incorporated, that is just the location they do some paperwork.
Exactly. The entire industry is financialised to hell.
You are actually buying from Blackrock, State St and a bunch of other financial institutions that are sitting on literally trillions in assets.
US auto makers have no interest in manufacturing smaller efficient EVs that are cheap they prefer to make vehicles that get sub 4.0 miles per KW or worse big trucks EUVs none of which will be under 30,000 . GM canceled the bolt at 26,500 and the EUV is the only one coming back and I'll just bet you wont see it below 35,000 .
Just keep making em bigger and more expensive.
"US automakers have no interest in manufacturing smaller efficient cars" full stop.
Looks very much like we're awaiting a repeat of 2008.
I've been waiting for a smaller hatchback. I didn't need or want an SUV.
And of course the US Auto makers have never had a multimillion dollar bailout.....
@@wekebu If you don't need the range and older leaf may suit your needs.
Definitely a city car though.
Been range testing it: I really need to charge in town when I go to even remotely rural areas.
If I was living rural: I would want a car with at least a 40kWh battery so that I can make a round trip if the in-city chargers are in use.
Don't use GM Bolt as an example, it was the best and far cheaper than Tesla, it was offered for 2 years at a low price, we had a chance, I got mine. Where is Ford's cheaper EV, Stillantus, foggeddaboudit. Even Tesla with no legacy burden is all talk 2+ yr after lower priced Bolt
Chinese evs are not that cheaper than locals here in Europe. The EU only find what they wanted to find leaving some automakers out of the investigation on purpose. Even CEO 's, like Tavares, who two years ago was asking for more tarifs on chinese EVs now are againts due to JVs
argument about cybersecurity is not that relevant imo since most western approved electronic hardware have backdoors, by design and law since the inception of semiconductors.
if cyber security was the real aim we would be blocking almost all cell phones and definitely all apple products.
Semiconductor diodes have been around for a long time and then in 1947 the transistor was invented. It was many decades before semiconductor controlled devices had enough intelligence for backdoors to even be contemplated.
People bring up "Chinese workers get paid poorly"... but I bet no one looks at their wage to cost ratio. Here in the US, a person making minimum wage has a hard time making it because our cost of living is so high. Also.. minimum wage for minimum skills. A burger flipper making $15 an hour is a bit insane. What is the cost of living in PRC vs here ( USA )?
Chinese auto factories employ less workers per car produced than any other nation in the world. They do this because these facilities use high tech automation in the manufacturing process. Part of the low cost of Chinese EV's is that they spend less on labor, not by cost per worker, but having less workers overall. The ROI on this can be absorbed and measured within months not years.
Hi.
Cost of living in China is extremely cheap.
Let me take transportation as an example (since this video is about cars) :
Let's say you want to travel from one city to another. Let's say for example, from the city of Guangzhou to Shenzhen (with a distance of 147km (91mi) between the stations on either side).
The bullet train ticket for that is approximately the same as 2 sets of return bus tickets of 3km in Sydney Australia!! (ie, 2 return trips meaning 4 single trips).
And bullet trains are a lot more comfortable and convenient than the buses in Australia.
The situation is the same for most other things. Some cities are expensive (for example Shanghai). But in those cities, wages are not low at all. They are approximately equivalent to the less expensive parts of the US.
The world should be welcoming the adoption of EV's not making them all more expensive. China's adoption of electric will outstrip the rest of the world. China has a law that says you cannot license a vehicle older than 10 years. That means all older vehicles are scrapped or sold overseas. Also my wife is Chinese and the views stated here about the government are CIA talking points.
My EV (2011 Leaf) is over 10 years old.
I am hoping it will last another 10 years.
The cooling system does not even need it's first scheduled maintenance for another 2 years (15 years or 200,000km, which ever comes first).
The major components of EVs: battery, motor, control system, suspension and tires. Who makes which part better?
Love this channel! ❤🎉😊
Despite being subscribed i haven't seen your programs in my list for a long time .. luck I remembered to search for you . Good to have u back !
As we’ve said… RUclips is not telling subscribers :(
Regarding cybersecurity, is a car any different from the myriad of other Chinese made electronic devices we already have which are equiped with microphones etc? Also, hasn’t Tesla recently got approval to import FSD data from cars operating the software in China? Looks like the data will flowing both ways.
USA isn't threatening national sovereignty as much tho
Correct me if I’m wrong… but there was a US - EU tariff introduced years ago that Tesla circumvented. Their cars were built in their US factory, then dismantled into three parts (the Model X was this way)… and then the three parts were shipped to the Netherlands where they would be reassembled into a car for EU sale. Depending on the wording of the tariff law, it’s entirely possible that for the interim (until local factories are built and ready to run), Chinese car manufacturers may well do a similar ‘car in pieces’ shipment.
I fully understand the frame of reference that TE is approaching this issue. If I can restate what I believe that is, like it or not, full sized EV cars/trucks/SUVs are the future and will be the dominant form of transportation for at least 2 more generations. To guess further, there is a lot of nuance in that position, that smaller, simpler, more efficient of the same will be needed, and further, transit and micromobility are needed because we can't just keep on with cars forever.
I seriously doubt that premise is at all safe to assume. To understand how quickly we're driving off of the emissions cliff including by transforming our ICE cars/trucks/SUVs to EV versions of the same, it is critical to understand that China who not long ago represented a tiny slice of the automobile global tally, now has more cars/trucks/SUVs combined than the USA. Putting car/capita aside, it's an absolute sign that the global watchdogs on emissions expansion completely failed to witness and police and stop the massive EXPANSION of full sized motor vehicles. Yes, EVs still represent an outsized, impossible fantasy of emissions free transportation. Of course it was never ever going to be fair to assume USA's long standing car dependency means it gets to keep it's massively outsized car count and others do not. But looking at the problem globally, the next wars will not be fought over spices, oil, or even water. They will be fought over resources to keep ICE and EV market's going in countries that rely on them for their economy and because they've failed to provide good alternatives. Joe Biden driving the Hummer and F-150 Lighting with a grin will be history book's inset about where the USA completely denied the scale of the Climate Crisis, assuming history books are even possible where we're headed.
Will China's car industry soon drop to half under the weight of its uncontrolled, subsidized growth? Absolutely. They are like the USA auto industry in 1920's, fueled by enthusiasm but not destined for long term viability as a full collection. Instead some will survive and many will falter. China already produces 3x what the USA produces. We need to plot the arrival of "peak car" production which has already occured in the USA. We need to carefully predict the BANNING of full sized vehicles (ICE or EV). The longer we persist with this fantasy, that we will Tesla our way out of the Climate Crisis, the harder we set up our circumstances for revolution, eco vs. nihilist factions, and a complete failure of our economy. We won't be able to build these much longer. Period. China's success as an auto manufacturer has only accelerated our pathway to global peak car. Governments will soon have to reach the conclusion that auto manufacturing cannot persist. If you think I'm being dramatic, I challenge you to understand that global emissions per capita in 2050 will be 2 tons CO2e annually. An EV requires 17 tons CO2e just to produce, and that's a good one. Production emissions will not drop as intensity of competition for resources increases. Emissions from mining/refining and global transport of materials/parts/cars isn't solved, nor will it be in time. Even power to charge EVs isn't solves as renewables can't keep pace with increased demand for electricity. Our grid is not getting cleaner. It's increasing in load and only adding enough renewables to cover the expansion (in some places). We have a ton of decarbonization to do for building heating, and this wasteful new load of power for EVs isn't viable. Sorry to be so doomish. We've got to power past the infatuation with the car.
How many auto companies sell cars in China and make most of there money in China saleing cars? China would build cars in US but will US let them. They are already trying to ban EU cars because they have minor parts from China.
Like the UK car industry, now mostly Nissan, Toyota, Mini (BMW) ,Honda, get good or go home! Also the data scrape was gone years ago, between Amazon, Google, Bytedance and Microsoft, it's out there now.
Protectionsim.
Profiteering
We should first protect against the theft of U.S. copyrights and knowledge . Do you agree F.R. ?
One area of "subsidy" that the Chinese government gives their local manufacturers, is in "breaks" in environmental regulations, allowing pollution by both major manufacturers and their suppliers. The cost of environmental stewardship is significant (not just protecting the environment, but human health through reduced pollution).
Personally, I LIKE the idea of not being poisoned by pollution and enjoying unspoiled nature. The Chinese government respecting the same? Not so much. The Chinese government's respect for, and valuation of, human life is much less than ours (though that is changing for the worse here in the US, but that's fodder for another comment).
Since pollution doesn't respect national borders, they are polluting us (though to a lesser extent than their own citizens) and we are paying the cost.
Anyway, I just wanted to I point out that there are other "subsidies" the Chinese government gives their manufacturers... ASIDE from mandatory ownership of 25-50+% and favorable banking terms from state-owned banks (yet another post).
I think the Chinese leaders like to breathe clean air just as much as the rest of us. The massive pollution problem of the 2000's in China is why they've pushed for all these green tech. Also, your argument is that they are polluting their own environment so that they can sell you a car that is an alternative to an ICE vehicle that pollutes your environment. And that is a bad thing?
What happened to Byton EV manufacturer?
Excellent video. Interesting to see what happens with Chinese imports and manufacturing in Canada and Mexico.
What is the minimum wage in USA? I would hate to think workers were being mistreated.
The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. Most states have higher minimums, e.g. California is $16 per hour. However, a dozen states are $7.25 per hour or even less in certain circumstances.
@@danielcarroll3358 cool can anyone United States live by themselves with the minimum wage? The answer is no not even if it’s $16 an hour.
the minimum wage is a bit of red herring.. The main cost driver in EVs is the batteries, not UAW.
Thanks
Nicky, heard from a spanish youtuber that the EU has postponed the decision probably from pressure by european automakers about the impact they will withstand from chinese reprisals. Anyway some thoughts about chinese subsidies which I believe are probably exaggerated. I remember in my working days in a business trip to China visiting factories and being impressed not by the cheap labor but the amount of brand new equipment in brand new buildings while my suppliers in Europe were all using 10 year old or older equipment in old buildings. When you look for the cost of a car ask a question: what is the cost breakdown between labor, materials and depreciation/amortization. You might be surprised that in the case of both US and European manufacturers a very significant cost difference vs Chinese manufacturers will come from as both equipment and building costs will be significantly higher in both Europe and the US. This difference will also affect or the chinese downstream suppliers so they can sell for a lower price.
EXPERTS on the worlds auto industry says that currently the worlds auto makers are in an upheaval as they switch to electric. They predict when the dust settltes the worlds 2 largest car makers will be-
1-BYD
2-Tesla
!
As someone who drives a Swedish designed, Chinese built EV, I have to say that I completely understand the need for these tariffs. The catch is that, as of this moment, the big three don’t make an EV I really want to buy, and that’s the kicker.
Give it time and they will start blaming unions and their high wages and benefits making EVs cost sooooo much.
I remember some years ago, there was a comparison between the cost of US-made vehicles and Japanese made vehicles. Apparently, almost 20% of the cost difference in the US was due to American workers' salaries and retirement benefits.
Interestingly no mention of ev graveyards. These are very real and it's where Chinese ev makers park brand new evs by the 1000s in fields where the cars are left to rot.
Hi Nikki interesting topic. Are the most up to date statistics on cheap products such as circuit boards and low priced consumer household products such as step ladders and hand tools showing an increased trend of manufacturing leaving China and moving to other parts of Asia on a large scale this past year? It appears that the Chinese government has cracked down on business relationships with western partners to the point that these relationships have soured and that the west has just slowed its hunger for Chinese made products. Have the Chinese shot their own-self in the foot? This has led to a downward spiral in domestic Chinese consumer spending leading to a rise of coordinated Chinese dumping of excess new energy vehicles to external markets such as the US and Europe? Internal Chinese economic conditions were internally created and the new energy vehicle production model is collapsing from their own policies and it make sense that the US wants to protect our own market while internally this works out in China.
👍
The issue isn't complicated. It is fundamentally about national security. If the U.S. automobile industry is crippled by foreign competition then the industrial capacity to manufacture weapons during wartime disappears. The U.S. won WWII because of its industrial capacity.
Or create a peacetime auto shortage well beyond the chip shortage. Industrial Warfare
This won't be an issue, the method with which the B-21 raider was built is extremely decentralized and has more than a thousand sources for parts.
It's entirely independent of the automobile industry, this isn't the 1940s, future wars aren't going to be fought using converted car factories.
Only decimated? If they don't improve, their marketshare will be completely taken over.
Well balanced piece that I feel a little responsible for pushing you to do. Your right, it's complicated - but the chinese cars sound like they are coming eventually. $11000 dollar high quality ev for the american consumer, who wouldnt want that. Licensed tech would eventually get it here.
Has this channel ever made a similar disclaimer concerning the country that is currently committing a genocide? I would like to believe so, but don't recall.
Buy local, its more sustainable.
wait a second...
how i see it.. if a X Chinese Brands Y car costs in china $17K US and it costs 30-35K Euro in Europe.. its not about unfair subsidizes.. they already sell them for way more then at home.. and we dont.
on the other hand all the other western brands sell way cheaper in China.. but not here in the west. so they dont give us their cars cheaper, but then cry to to the western governments to save them... let them build the cars in China and haul them back to the west, cos its absurd that i have to pay 10-15K more for the same car..
What are domestic delivery fees that cover how many miles? The travel to the ocean , across the ocean and to U.S. Destinations is without prices ?
There is a process in most nations called homologation, which requires auto makers to confirm to the nations rules and regulations. The standards in western countries are much higher and thus the higher cost in EU and NA. So a car that cost $11k in China will cost $22k after homologation and before tariffs. This will make Chinese EV's comically expensive.
2:52 hmm, I'm pretty sure the same thing happened in the US when students started protesting Israel's genocidal war on Palestinians...
Its so easy,you start with 70% and then reduce it every year 7% so you have 0% importtax in 10 years!
Import tax on Chinese brand EV'S or ALL Chinese made EV's made for legacy brands .. yes thats you VW BMW Renault, Stellantis ( Peugeot Citroën Opel Fiat) , also Honda Toyota EV's who import Chinese made EV's under their badges .Tesla shipped 340,000 Shanghai made Teslas to the EU. . Then there's the plain fat that in order for the EU to reach their Zero emissions targets they need the Chinese EV volume capacity to acheive it for the lower priced vehicles.. as the Main US EU and Japanese legacy manufacturer's have spent the last decade either gagging their feet or openly campaigning to dissuade buyers from opting to go electric. Now they are going to import taxes to protect the old guard.
GAZA
I think this is not covered enough. I'm not sure US manufacturers can afford to lose the 30% of their revenue that comes from foreign sales. The US middle class was built from auto manufacturing. Therefore, one might make the association that the lack of a sub $20k EV in the US could directly affect the US middle class. One could also wonder if all the US manufacturers will survive this. I don't think Europeans are going to care that Chinese workers are not treated well, when it means they don't have to buy oil and gas from Russia, and also get clean skies. You take the lesser evil. For them this is it. I'm not sure the US will recover from this. The ship has likely already sailed, unfortunately, a lot due to greed and stupidity of the average American.
One of the biggest issues today is the fact that most capacitors are manufactured in China and with rare exceptions, they are JUNK. Nearly every failure of an electronic device can be traced back to a capacitor in the power supply. I can't tell you how many things I've fixed just by replacing a simple $0.50 part. It's not that manufacturers WANT to use these, it's that many don't have a choice in the matter.
"In the last decade, a lot has changed in the Chinese automotive industry." Go tell that to Chinese people who have to live with an average of eight BEV fires per day (over 60/day or 30k/year if you include micro-mobility), brand-new EVs losing wheels or entire axles in minor crashes or bricking themselves 30-400km out of the dealership, more than half of BEV brands having gone bankrupt over the last four years leaving owners unable to get replacement parts or even use their cars anymore because the servers managing remote unlock and other features people relied on no longer exist, etc.
While Chinese manufacturers may be required to build export cars to higher standards than required domestically, I take what they sell in China as an indication of what the manufacturer would like to sell globally if allowed to. If a Chinese manufacturer like BYD treats its Chinese customers like crap, I wouldn't trust it to consistently have any better after-sales support anywhere else either.
Certification of e-bikes and micro-mobility will likely make them so expensive and replacement parts so much more difficult to get most people will no longer bother with them. It is already difficult enough to source bare lithium cells of known origin to repair stuff, even more so for a reasonable price per Wh since manufacturers and their official distributors do not sell those at retail for regulatory reasons.
If you want electric transportation to be sustainable instead of feeling like an overpriced disposable electronics industry, there needs to be battery standards first and foremost. Then e-bikes, scooters, home storage, snow blowers, mowers, tillers, etc. could use the same range of off-the-shelf 2-10kWh 100-200V modules that BEVs use.
Fair enough with regards to our dependency on China, but I think some additional context and perspective is necessary.
The reason that especially the United States but many countries are as dependent on China as they are, is due to a philosophy of globalization. Thomas Friedman in his book “the world is flat: a brief history of the 21st-century” argued in essence that a world where everyone traded with everyone else would result in a more peaceful and safe world. The idea was that if you are interdependent, you will be far less likely to attack each other, and the ideals of democracy and capitalism, or whatever better version of those could be found, would propagate especially into China. And to be fair, there was plenty of reason to believe that that would happen based on the trajectory that China had been following since the 1970s. And it was not China, but it was many countries that have been called the Third World, places like India, Cambodia, the Philippines, etc.
However, two major things undermine this idea.
First, capitalism, when not properly put in check by regulation, will always find a way to exploit loopholes and people. As a result, the ideal of making sure that workers and other countries were treated at least as well as we treat them in the United States (which isn’t as good as it used to be), simply did not materialize. Corporations did everything they could to avoid being responsible for monitoring such things, and with simply move from one place that was being monitored to another. All in the Interest of profit, and all pretty consistent over the last 25 years.
The second major change was the ascendance of Xi Jin Ping. This leader was different than his predecessors. He recognized the power of the Chinese autocracy and the Chinese communist party, any consolidated power in order to ensure that he could remain in charge for many decades. He is determined to make sure that China does not become a Democratic nation This wasn’t what was envisioned at the beginning of globalization.
What does all means is that we put our faith in the idea that investing in China, even though they were resistant, would lead to a more peaceful world as well as a more equitable world. That despite sending jobs overseas, there would be other jobs available that were just as Well paying, and perhaps would even be better because they wouldn’t involve backbreaking work.
Instead, not only was industrial work sent overseas, but so was information work. Telephone support, accounting, computer programming, graphic design, basically any intellectual job that you can do can be done overseas for less money. And so it becomes harder and harder for the average high school graduate to find anything that they can do to earn a living, and even college graduates struggle. It is not solely due to China or globalization, but it definitely eats into the opportunities available for American citizens.
The result of all of this is that we were sold to promise that is not been fulfilled. So the question is, do you keep going down the same path to the inevitable conclusion, or do you course based on new information?
In my view, we are correcting course, and we are doing it where we can.
It is true that a lot of electronics manufacturing takes place in China. Whether or not this is a good idea is a separate debate, but we know that corporations including some of our favorites like Apple have been gaining benefit from some pretty terrible working conditions and policies in China and other nations. Just because that’s true, doesn’t mean we should let it continue to be true.
With regards to China’s quality of workmanship, and whether or not they are copying our products, it’s a bit of a mixed bag. Yes, it would seem inevitable that in a country With over 1 billion people, talented and capable folks would come up with their own ideas for various technologies. That being said, China stubbornly continues to fail to innovate in certain areas. It’s hard to say why it would be, but it is worth noting that the Chinese culture had all of the components necessary to make cannons, but it never occurred to them to do so. I would argue that the historical bureaucratic nature of the Chinese culture, combined with the current communist/capitalist system that they are trying to navigate, leads to pitfalls in innovation. The Soviet union had a similar problem. They did not lack in intelligent inventors, where they lacked was in cooperative leadership.
And so right now, in addition to the electric vehicle tariffs, the United States has been taking steps to prevent in European technologies that the Chinese have not yet developed, and making it illegal to send those products to China. Now if Chinese inventors can come up with their own versions of these things, so be it. But give the adversary nature between the United States and China, in the evidence that China is beginning a marsh towards an aggressive stance against Western countries,there are good reasons to be concerned knowing how China operates and how it’s government works.
But specific to electric vehicles, the question is: is there a value beyond just general concern about Chinese influence around the world, to preventing or limiting Chinese vehicle sales in the United States?
Some will argue that the reasoning is designed to allow US OEM’s to not make any progress in affordable vehicles. But the truth of the matter is, there is a real chance that were Chinese vehicles to be allowed to be freely sold in the United States, given how China subsidize is its industry, that the US car industry would almost inevitably disappear.
To be clear, it is not unexcused for USC manufacturers not to read the writing on the wall, and do what’s necessary to set themselves up to properly compete with China in a reasonable amount of time. That said, there are some major distinctions between how China operates and how the United States operates that make it much more difficult even in an ideal situation to accomplish this.
The issue is cost of labor. We all want American workers to make a fair wage so that they don’t have to work 16 hours a day just to survive. But when we do this, we make our base cost of products significantly more than that of something from China. In fact, labor is so cheap and China, even including it as well as shipping across the Pacific Ocean , Chinese products are still orders of magnitude cheaper than if they were manufactured in the United States. And that include anything that the Chinese government is doing to subsidize electric vehicles in particular. Part of it has to do with currency manipulation, but the standard of living in China, the cost of living in China, andthe conditions that many Chinese workers live in is still a major contributor to how much cheaper Chinese products and especially Chinese vehicles can be.
If China were not an autocracy, if they either didn’t have ambitions to influence the world, or were similar to say Iceland or Holland as far as how they treated their people, there would still be an issue here, but it wouldn’t be as dire.
The combination of Chinese ambition (which to be fair is comparable to US ambition), along with it autocratic nature, it’s actions to gain influence across the globe, and it’s potential to not only decimate European in American industry, thus putting us in a position to be 100% dependent on manufacturing, Means that saying well we’re already doing it so what can we do? Is putting our head in a sand.
It’s a version of the sun cost fallacy. We’ve invested a lot in the way things are today, therefore they are not gonna change and we shouldn’t try.
Instead, we have to bite the bullet, except the losses, and do what’s best for our fellow citizens. That doesn’t necessarily mean becoming isolationist, in fact despite the failure of the globalization advocates, there is some truth to the concept the countries who trade with each other don’t go to war with each other (although we should pay attention to Russia). but that doesn’t mean that we should like get away with gaming the system and lying about it for an indefinite amount of time.
That all said, there is ample evidence that Chinese auto manufacturing has in fact caught up with or exceeded auto manufacturing other countries. Western auto makers would be well advised to take the threat of Chinese auto manufacturers seriously. And it is possible that the current enthusiasm for electric vehicles in China could change if the leadership changed, there is definitely value in finding ways to have Chinese design vehicles manufactured in the countries where they will be sold. It is not a perfect solution, it means that some of the expertise necessary to continue to make those vehicles will be in those countries so if the Chinese government changes its mind, we won’t immediately lose the value of those products. More importantly, they will be hiring workers in those countries, and will have to follow the laws of rates etc. Which will mean that they may still be cheaper than other cars made in those countries, at least the prices will be based onapples to apples as far as cost of labor, and the money that is spent on those vehicles will at least return to the country where the vehicle is sold.
It seems to me that this is the most reasonable path to walk in between isolationism and a complete free market that could demolish local industry.
Thanks for reminding about the probs w/ China. Cheap Chinese products are crack, makes you feel good...for now.
Remember chip shortage, it could be worse.
I'm more concerned about labor than corporate
Chip shortage during COVID mostly has nothing to do with China.
@@davehu8829I know that, it's an example of how bad having supplies cut off can be
@2:30. If only we can have a free and fair open debate where you won't delete my comments, I bet your claims don't stand up to scrutiny.
I cannot imagine ANY truly neutral persons listening to the debate would end up siding with you.
This episode is mostly BS and one lopsided. My message is simple, "compete or die." The belief that legislating our way to winning this battle is the solution, has never worked and will never work. Monster, oversized and overpriced vehicles will eventually spell the doom for US automakers. We never learned from the Japanese auto and electronic invasion. And we are about to do it again with the EV industry. We constantly try to substitute short sighted stupidity for innovation and long term planning while expecting a different result is mind boggling. We, the consumer, will always pay the price in tariff wars.
One more huge reason (not to buy): Chinese EVs built from very cheap energy imported from Russia. Energy which we have banned in western countries. This way we are giving our own vehicle industry unfair competition, we are supporting Russias economy and indirectly helping them to continue their war against Ukraine. And thereby making it very difficult for Ukraine to win the war.
Furthermore we are weakening the western economy and pushing China rapidly forward to become the world leader both economically and politically.
Fighting global warming will be almost impossible with China in this position.
Wake up! Never buy a Chinese car.
If we don’t react immediately, we will have a complete new world order in 15-30 years from now. An order we will not like!
Not buying that (logic)
The western economy has undermined itself and will do so even more so when they'll sever decades of trade relations out of fickle spite and political flippedness. Yellow Peril is not a good look.
Not least to mention, who do you think have been and still are the biggest polluters geopolitically? Australia still exports an extreme amounts of coal to China that produces everything that has been offshored by the decision of western manufacturers decades ago at the expense of workers and domestic industry.
If the coal and oil company are not explicitly Chinese or Russian does that make our existential climate crisis any better?
Well, this was a lot of anti Chinese propaganda. I expect better from this channel, but this was a big let down. Just a lot of pro US business/state talking points
Well... Normally you guys are very informed and do your research very well before publishing a video, seems like the quality is dropping.
1. Western automakers do produce in China, but they're forced to partner with a Chinese company to do business there (Tesla is the only exception), otherwise they'll loose those fat Chinese money.
2. "Few Chinese automaker are producing bad cars, thus ruining the reputation of others"... Well, you're very wrong in there. Just a simple Google/RUclips search would have informed you that most of Chinese EVs from Chinese companies like BYD, NIO etc... are just craps, most of the cars catch fire, because the batteries are poorly made.
Don't forget that China is a closed country, so whatever information we get online here, is just tip of the iceberg... The situation could be much worse in China.
IMO this video is sponsored by China to spread their propaganda
Now on... I'll be careful with miss leading informations that this channel gives to it's viewers.
You probably need more than a cursory Google search to pass judgment on the car industries of a 1 billion population country. A few anecdotes don't tell you about the industry as a whole. As Nikki noted, lots of people hold opinions on Chines automakers that are based on long out-of-date information.
People used to dismiss Japanese automakers based on old information, till those automakers unexpectedly turned into the high-quality vendors in many market segments. China is consciously following the same path.
EVs are new technology, which "old" data you want?? The ones from ICE cars?? 😂😂
Japan is light year different than China, Japan's goal was to give a quality product at low price Chinese goal is to cheat everywhere and silece those who criticize them.
This video is just sugarcoating China, because this channel likes to get sponsored by China 🤦♀️