Guys I had to remove some of the Megamind Clips I used in the video so that's why there are now some weird cuts. If you're interested, here's the link to the original version of the video. ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html Thanks guys
@@dylanf3108well duh, Green Arrow is essentially a street level character even though he rubs elbows with omega level characters. Same with Batman but you could propose that his intellect is somewhat of a power
Oh my god, you just made me realize why Metroman became music man, it is not just a funny random joke, he picked music cuz he is shown to actually suck at it both guitar and songwriting. It’s an endeavor that actually challenges him and delivers him an actual journey of improvement. Megamind is such a good movie
This is true for most super powers though. I think handwaving those and just going with it is just needed so these stories can exist. Superhero stories are really as much fantasy as sci-fi. Although it's also interesting to explore the realistic side of it. My Hero Academia has some interesting story lines about bodies not matching the super power, without spoiling much.
You would need super perception because if you don’t have it and go full speed you’ll crash into something, extreme durability for your entire body because your feet are stomping the ground very hard and if you were to go from 0 to max speed it would obliterate your legs. A superpower that makes your speed not destroy everything around it if you are super fast.
Super heart and superblood because if you run as fast as flash it would probably explode your heart. Superpower which lets your organs stay in place and not fly out of your body. Superpower which makes you not have to eat millions of calories after running. Super breathing too because your going so fast.
@@aki-senkinn 'Realistic' is a stretch for MHA. You would need far, far more than just 'body compatibility' to be able to use their powers. For instance, Invisible girl wouldn't be able to see, because light goes through her eyes. Todoroki and Bakugou need super durability, because the G-Forces that they are exposed to when going at max speed would straight up kill a person, or a the very least knock them out. Same with Ingenium. I don't think I need to explain why Bakugou's 'explosive sweat' is unrealistic. There is no such thing as 'immune to your own explosions', he would literally blow his hands off the first time he tried to use his power. And how about Super Strength in general. Super strength fundamentally doesn't work how it's usually portrayed in fiction. Like the scene where Deku punches the giant Robot. In that scene, Deku caved the robot's face in, and stayed in place. In real life, a punch that strong would send his 50kg self soaring through the stratosphere, while the several ton robot itself would be unscathed. And then there is Mt Lady, whose body would likely collapse under it's own weight due to the square cubed law.
My Favorite version of The Flash is when he is depicted as both being such a speedster he's basically a god to the point ALL villains piss their pants and run from him, and all he really does is wag his finger at them and shame them. There was a comic where it was minor villains talking about why Central City was the worst place to target, and they all bring up stories of some of the biggest villains being utterly humiliated by Flash, like Joker being defeated in a single second and him never targeting Central City again because "it's not fun", to the master of time and space stealing a lollypop from the little girl cuz she stuck her tongue out at him, and when flash shows up, simply wagging his finger, the guy flees through dimension after dimension as Flash follows, all the way to the end of all existence itself.. and Flash is there, holding out his hand for the lollypop. Not a single punch, but he utilizes psychological warfare in the polar opposite way that Batman does. Batman will hurt you, but this iteration of Flash will use the fact that he is basically a god to forcefully humble anyone he faces.
Imagine a speedster fighting a character that can slow down time. Once he uses his power, the speedster runs at a normal pace. Now it's just 2 normal dudes fighting each other
Sort of related but this sort of effect happened in Justice League when angry Clark starts fighting Flash, extremely cool shot of Clark's eyes moving in the slow motion.
Fun fact: if you watch Megamind again, the moment after he shouts "FIRE!" where it shows both their faces in the silence, you can briefly see Metroman fade behind Megamind. It almost looks like distortion, but it's clearly him. That's how fast he moved
I'm pretty sure he appears for exactly one frame. And frankly, at the speeds he's moving, that means he held still _way_ longer than he needed to in order to appear as anything other than a motion blur.
...and that's not quite the right detail. He is moving there at a relativistic speed, assuming that a couple of hours have passed. Average three-digit minimum Mach numbers are the speed of movement at which explosions are static. Well, this is nonsense of course. It’s difficult to interact with the outside world at this speed without causing destruction. Only if there is no aura of time around him.
I love the scene with Metroman's superspeed for the simple detail that he's causing a Doppler effect with the light of his own body. Metroman is moving so close to the speed of light, that even with the camera matching his pace, light is getting red-shifted or blue-shifted depending on the direction he's going relative to the camera, showing he can still move faster.
Always kind of brushed it off as a kind of motion-blur effect to show he's moving ridiculously fast. Man, the creators of that movie were on another level for quality and detail orientation.
@@urbainleverrier1 Sandevistan is not even remotely close to the speed of light. Through tech & chemicals It speeds up a person’s thought process, and nerve impulses so they perceive time to be moving slower than it is. So possibly the doppler effect for sandevistan is just in the head of the person using it.
My only argument is that red rush didn't die in a "bullshit way". He was caught by another super hero that is only marginally slower, but near infinitely stronger, more durable, and more experienced, than himself. Also, red rush is shown moving slower at the beginning on purpose. He even explains that he was trying to not move too fast in order to prevent people from getting sick. Which introduces a whole other problem. Accelerating a normal human from 0 to 500mph in a split second to get them away from a villain doesn't save them. It kills them. Violently and explosively.
Omniman is not marginally, but far slower than red rush. The only feat he shows were he uses extreme speed is while flying at top speed straight through everything he comes in contact with. But that´s an entirely different beast, because we neither know how long he had to accelerate to reach these speeds nor if he had anything more than a general idea of where he´s going (i.e. significantly worse speed react than red rush, who could get dressed in superspeed without even damaging his clothes and precisely and non-lethally take out a villain in less than the blink of an eye). In fact, if i remember Omniman´s flight patterns correctly it´s all straight lines and very rare and very sharp turns. That sounds like what we´d expect from someone not really able to carefully adapt their flight path. To catch the arm of red rush he needs to be able to accelerate his arm fast enough that red rush can´t pull back in time. A guy who can react so fast that everything moving at speeds visible to the human eye is standing completely still for him as if time had stopped. It has nothing to do with experience, if I come at you with a knife at the speed of a turtle on a morning jog (still several orders of magnitude faster than so-slow-it-looks-like-no-movement-at-all-in-what-feels-to-you-like-hours) you will not get hit by that knife even if you´ve never seen one your entire life. If you instead want to argue that he has that speed because he´s shown to have that speed in that very scene, then every other fight we see him in becomes a meteor sized plot hole instead, because he never uses anything close to red rush´s speed for any of his fights against the immortal or against the cyborgs or the kaiju, which we know, because they show those fights on TV in universe, using regular TV cameras, or at least have slow moving everyday objects like helicopters and people moving about in the background.
A thing to mention is how Dash DOES have his moment where the writers are able to be like “look at how cool it is to be a speedster” in the form of the 100 mile dash (specifically the water running). All the while Dash is still a well-written speedster. Edit: okay yes I understand the tack scene exists at the start of the movie which makes his speed inconsistent, so before you comment that very fact read this first
Yes, because they keep his speed ability consistent and not a God level. Thou his movement when pranking his teacher is faster than a blink of an eye, so that kind tears down the entire idea.
Isn't there a scene toward the beginning where Dash puts a tack on his teacher's chair and it's too fast to be seen? That's a lot faster than he's shown to be for the rest of the movie. Too fast to be seen is a lot faster than 100 or 200 mph or whatever.
I don’t know if the 100 Mile Dash scene will ever be beat. It’s just so exciting as we get to see this kid truly let loose for the first time in his life. That chuckle when he runs on water for the first time always puts a big smile on my face
Who'd win in a fight: A speedster that has mastered the speed force that is so fast he is faster than instant travel and can outrun death itself and the end of the universe or some middle aged guy with a super soaker full of ice.
3:41 correct. It’s about how saitama became so strong. He can’t feel human anymore. He lost something inside him. Something that made him feel alive. He fights cause he wants to know the thrill of having your life on the line. But he’s not selfish either. He’s still a good person. He saves people. While he says he’s merely a hero for fun. He’s still a hero. When other heroes failed against a monster. And he killed it. He claimed the heroes weakened it. That he simply finished it. He undermined his strength, even though it would have increased his rank and profits for being a hero. He instead chose to take the hatred of others. To be called a fraud yet he doesn’t stop being a hero. And despite his strength. It wasn’t actually battle that gave him purpose. But his student. His fellow heroes. That’s what gave him purpose. He takes the hatred of everyone and doesn’t care. Cause he wants to help people. Cause he wants to be a hero.
I like how in Megamind during the scene where they're waiting for the sun to warm up, you can see Metro Man blip for a split second. During that split second is when he went into superspeeed mode and began contemplating his life. It's one of my favourite uses of foreshadowing.
its an easter egg AND foreshadowing. great idea by them. similar to scenes where a later character is in disguise or in the background of an early scene, then they are introduced later on. then ppl go back and notice it was him in the rewatch.
Tought so as well, but this blip happens, not in the same time, when he uses his superspeed. When he leaves the observatory, you can see, that Megamind is in the process of screaming, while the blip happens, when he is silent.
The show "'I'm a Virgo" has a Speedster character who actually is stuck permanently in speed mode. She couldn't speak to people for most of her life, until she eventually developed a system that taught her how to listen and speak more slowly. But it's agonizing to her. A simple "Hello" feels like several minutes to her, so for years her primary form of communication was just writing things down and leaving sticky-notes everywhere so people could reply to her at their speed without her having to wait on them to finish a thought. It creates a fun and compelling character out of someone you'd normally expect to be the most overpowered person in the show.
That is the logical way to resolve it. Speaking uber slowly is not really practical, I'm not sure it's even possible. It'd be like talking the way Dory does in Finding Nemo to the whales or whatever, except like... way worse, and you'd likely mangle the pronunciation to a stupid level. The 'slow' / normal speed people would also probably be indecipherable in speech. It would be a really lonely power to have.
A quick/simple form of communication would be for people to "respond" to some sort of chat/forum. In theory, millions would try to talk to them so that would be tons of content for them to respond and act on, in effect, never be bored.
that bogs it down so needlessly though. like, now this character is basically in a completely isolated and tortured existence and that’s just a set dressing for them. you can just make it inconsistent in terms of perception or control and have the exact same character/superpower, which is the point.
In defense of the Red Rush scene, Omni Man is also incredibly fast, so it's something akin to the Justice League scene where everyone moves in slow motion around flash, except Superman. So Omni man was able to catch him, and with his overwhelming strength didn't allow Rush an option out. He only took about a second to crush Red Rush's skull, but in that time we see that he punched Omni Man enough times to shred through Nolan's uniform, and break his own hands on the nearly invulnerable skin
Just to add onto this comment: Its also explained in the DC comics and other forms of speedsters with the same perception of time, that it's all about the mental state in which the individual is in. As long as they are in a calm, collected mental state then they will be able to normally live and interact with others in a comfortable state. If there is any rush of anxiety, adrenaline, or any other chemical or mental factor, then it drastically affects the users perception of time. I think the creators of Invincable just assumed everyone kind of knows the whole mental trap cliche with speedsters.
I'm fine with the Red Rush scene because people do stupid things when they let their emotions take over. Red Rush on cerebral full-time support mode would have been too much for Omni-Man to overcome. For plot reasons, he had to get taken out.
@@SinnyVonDoom That requires a lot of mental gymnastics from the audience. I think such effects of panic and anxiety should be made clear to the audience rather than hoping they understand or remember that cliche, because every fictional world has their own rules and whatnot, so not everyone is going to immediately assume these things
Not just bullet but sometimes even regular punches even a novice martial artist could dodge manage to slip through. I guess that works in few first episodes to hammer home how untrained the character is as a fighter but when the same shit keeps happening at season 6 after the speedster has fought countless enemies, many with speed powers of their own, they should at the very least be able to dodge what a normal human can.
Yeah, not gonna lie...when you mentioned how speedsters got taken out in your previous videos, I just realized how the writers don't know how to write speedsters at all at this point. Edit: I made this comment a while back and I realize there was a typo pointed out by someone. Thanks. I needed that. And there was also a comment that said that we fans are also kinda to blame and you know what? They're right. I mean for example, to tell you how OP speedsters are, just take at the old TV shows Teen Titans with the episode titled: LightSpeed. In that episode, we finally see Kid Flash and in just one episode, it shows that it is nearly impossible for him to lose to villians. He got caught on purpose by the Hive Five and then proceeded to escape and make the High Five look like a joke while trashing their entire base. As for when he starts fighting Madame Rouge, yeah he starts to get beaten up a little but is still holding his own. Plus it actually shows that he's getting tired the more the battle wages on. At that point, he doesn't even want to fight Madame Rouge anymore, he just wants to get out of their because he's getting tired and Madame Rouge knows this and tries finishing him off. I was a little upset when I Kid Flash only got a few episodes of screentime in the Teen Titans but I kinda understand why they did that. That episode alone showed how easy it was fir him to single handedly trash seven villians all by himself very efficiently. With him always with the Titans, it would be hard to make a scenario where they have trouble facing a villian and end up losing if the fastest Kid alive can take care of them in a few seconds. So yeah, the writers are to blame but so are we.
@@Velocity_YT if flash is all you read then trust me you do not know much about speedsters in comics. Also the flash had multiple writers and keep evolving and does not function all the same but hey no judging like i said there plenty of shitty writers around comics.
@@spookynigga3112 why does RUclips keep deleting your comments? I was struggling to reply to you just now because of it. RUclips is weird. But yeah, Flash isn't the only comics I've read. I'm just using him as an example. There's the X-Men comics with Quicksilver. Then there's the Archie Sonic Comics...I feel like I've missed some 🤔
The whole “why not just a nice 200mph?” made a lot of sense. It’s like writers think that the only way is up and that they have to make speedsters inconceivably fast. But if you lower that to the speed of a car, something we understand and recognise, it ups the stakes and makes the speed feel genuinely, plausibly fast, not so fast that you can barely comprehend how fast it is
you can even still have the cool time-travel and other aspects of superspeed, but have them be something they need to put effort into activating and/or using these powers have consequences. running so fast that everyone seems to not be moving is exhausting and they can only do it for about 1-3 minutes their perspective or they will run themselves into a coma due to all the calories they burned. using speed to travel back in time shorts out their powers so they can't use superspeed for like a week or so.
Also, 0-200mph instantly is still faster than we can comprehend. Even on the fastest superbikes, it still takes several seconds to reach even 100mph. So even that is still faster than most people will ever experience or understand.
Another angle for the “godlike” speedster is to have him be the villain. I instantly think of Pucci from JoJo Part 6. When he gets Made in Heaven all the heroes are instantly and hopelessly outclassed and it’s absolutely terrifying (it’s a power he’s been working towards for the entire story so it feels earned and not like it comes out of nowhere)
and from another aspect, it turned out even with its universe-moving might, Made In Heaven still got its weak point after all - that Pucci is still a meaty human being that breathes oxygen & susceptible to toxic substances, as Emporio found out
@@tranquoccuong890-its-orge i love his defeat so much because it's an incredible sequence of events: weather dying, jolyne getting the disk and handing it to emporio, the entire team trying their absolute best to survive and protect eachother, jolyne sacrificing herself one final time, the fact that pucci had to stop MiH at a certain point to catch emporio who was the only one left and the fact that pucci was the only one who could alter fate. and it doesn't feel like bullshit because fate has been already well established and explained to correct itself through one way or another. absolutely stunning show with a fitting end to the main storyline.
Amazing and very quotable. (2:17) "Now it is objectively embarrassing when writers can't even follow their own rules, but actually following them really isn't deserving of praise." and (0:14) "The reason why so many speedsters lose to bad writing is because the writing isn't aware of it's own implications." Especially that part: "because the writing isn't aware of it's own implications" heavily resonates with me because it's precisely the issue I find in most things I watch these days. Same issue with writers that can't follow their own rules, because stories written with errors like that give off the feeling that the writer just didn't care enough to think about what he is writing, which I find quite disrespectful toward the audience.
because it feels like in those big blockbuster superhero movies writers don't really care about the media they are portraying and write a story that allows as much cheap drama and "cool" shots as it possible can notice how the two best speedsters mentioned in this video come from movies that have actual interesting takes on superhero media and play their stories in an interesting and refreshing ways because they are written with passion and deep understanding of what you can and cannot do in a superhero movie
If a creator doesn’t care about their work as much a critical and invested watcher does, why even bother creating anything in the first place? It’s a waste of everyone’s time
Something that doesn't happen that often but can be interesting when it does, is when the writers are in the writing room, setting up the premise and all the powers, and they catch one of the implications of what their power system implies, and rather than shy away from it, they lean into it and explore that implication As an example, I feel like the Avatar franchise does a good job of exploring the consequences of its elemental bending, with the ways that bending is used in construction, mail delivery, transport, games/sports, etc.; how it's accounted for in the way bending-capable prisoners are held; and the logical consequences of how far you can push the ability to control one of the four classical elements
I love your comparison to One Punch Man. It’s a story about a guy struggling with directionless after acquiring too much power, and while there are exciting fights from side characters, his hurdles are never about winning a battle. Basically, the writer knew that One Punch Man couldn’t seriously be threatened in a fight, so he expertly explored the humor of the situation in different ways.
It's a shame the big money Murata version became repetitive horrible shonen trash. The good early parts are 1:1 with the webcomic. But then.... the massive filler. The webcomic was and still is excellent. I like how the throwaway villains aren't given a lot of weight; Phoenix Man lives for all of two panels there. In the $$$ version, he wastes over 20 pages. His resurrection ability is just a cliche bad-guy power up before they lose. If he shows up in the webcomic again someday, *it would be funny and memorable instead.* The reader would be surprised and go "oh yeah, that guy! It totally makes sense he'd come back from the dead... He's a *phoenix* after all." The Murata version is sad shell of what OPM is supposed to be. Where it used to hold shallow spectacle in contempt, and focus on the emotional aspects of characters... it now revels in time-stalling spectacle. The writing is so bad - there was even a retcon where one of the heroes kills a bunch of possessed dudes, but they decided to awkwardly redo the chapter, that was already released, because that would have made him unsympathetic. The profit motive and ONE's disinterest in making the webcomic his full time job is killing it : /
What I loved about OPM is that his struggles are completely flipped. they're like "Oh no if this guy keeps monologuing, im gonna miss the sale at the grocery store."
OPM also portrays the grim reality of how society see a hero and a monster. Only the strong (or at least look like it, because King), beautiful and charismatic are praised while the ones who put their lives on the line for duty (Mumen Rider, the police in general), or doesn't have the look of a hero (Saitama) are quickly sidelined and never get the credits they deserve The way they perceive monsters are just as black and white: They don't look human then they are monsters, even if their motive is completely justified (the sea folks) or just generally harmless (Monoko). Hell, Sweetmask got the worst in the webcomic (manga hasn't reach that point when i write this), doing everything he could to protect the people but he knew the moment he dropped his disguise everyone will instantly turn from admire him to despise him and want him dead. So far i see Garou is the only one other than Saitama to not view monsters in that black and white manner as others do, but unlike Saitama, he despises the heroes and society itself for the hypocrites they are
I watched a show recently called "I'm a Virgo" and it has a speedster who is very interestingly written. Her whole deal is that she was born in superspeed, so from her perspective her parents were always barely moving. As she grows older, she creates a system to communicate with her parents across the speed difference and eventually learns how to slow herself down. It's pretty cool
Weird how no one has heard of this white girl shit but theres plenty of paragraph long comments talking about this show. How much are you charging for comments? I have a dog fart video im trying to promote, if it has to be about a speedster i can train him to force it out. Figured i'd ask since you people clearly don't have standards.
Worm in general is great at writing powers consistently. One of the side characters is called Velocity and he’s a speedster, with the caveat that the faster he goes the less effect he can have on the world around him. At max speed he was roughly as effective as a sentient breeze
And then you have fuckers like Leviathan, who doesn't have that problem and is a very good representation of what fighting a Speedster is like. Just _blink_ and now you - along with the several dozen people next to you - are dead and he's already traveled six blocks before anyone else can even register what happened.
I like Worm, one of the best parts about it is that there’s not a single boring or uninteresting power set. But Velocity sucks. Not in the sense that his powers are highly restricted, but in the fact that even *with* those restrictions he still could have made it work. It’s stated that Velocity’s Breaker state only extended 1-2 inches from his skin, which is why he didn’t wear a cup so that he could run faster. And if he carried anything he’d be weighed down a lot. But there’s still plenty of things that Velocity could have done to make himself more effective other than punching people with the force of an 8 year old. He could carry Post-It Notes to stick on people’s faces/eyes to disorient them, wear short cleats on his shoes to do more damage when kicking, carry small metal balls to throw at people, wear gloves padded with metal to act as brass knuckles, add tiny claws to the fingertips of his suit to cut people up as he runs, etc. If Velocity was the protagonist of Worm chances are that we’d see these sort of things be put into effect, or if his power set was given to someone more ruthless like Taylor :P
@@ottol.c.1784 (Worm spoilers) Yeah I mean that is the drawback of being a minor side character like him, especially one who dies so early and has maybe one or two short appearances. It’s possible he did do a lot of that stuff and we just never saw it
The thing I find interesting about Speedsters is how their speed is minimally impactful to the environment. It's not even a true speedster, it's more like a *magical time-wizard* than speed.
There's always gotta be some kinda speed-caveat/bonus-power that can write off the physics that come from those kinds of speeds which is annoying cuz those same rules are almost always broken at some point, with them zooming into a room and blowing papers(or debris of the same nature) around, but then if they're blowing papers around, they'd also be blowing up the entire room with a sonic boom
They kinda touched on that in one episode of Cyborg 009. When Joe woke up one day with his superspeed cranked up to the point that time stood still and was unable to turn it off. He tried touching a piece of paper and it got lit on fire. Then he sees an accident site mid explosion. He wanted to save the people who were gonna get caught in the blast, but he didn't want them to suddenly burn up like the paper earlier. So after some time thinking, he got the idea to grab some iron bars and dig a trench under the people he wanted to save even if it meant getting his hands burned from the red hot metal
I remember an episode in one Marvel Comic where Quicksilver is talking to a therapist and asks if they can visualize being in a queue behind several extremely slow elderly people who are dawdling ahead of him and explains that is what his life is like, all of the time.
I think this is the real answer. The biggest limiting factor for a speedster would be *attention.* Even if it’s not like that all the time, whenever they go into super-speed mode, they’re going to effectively spend the same amount of attention a normal person would, so doing 1000 hours of work in half a second would *feel like* 1000 hours.
I wonder if anyone has written a horror comic about this concept. Perceiving super speed as normal time would be like being trapped in hell watching paint dry for 1000 years every day.
@@augustday9483 DC once explained in one of the comics that speedsters are able to perceive time normally as long as they are relaxed and calm, but imagine a speedster having an anxiety attack and being trapped in that feeling for days, maybe even WEEKS in their perspective
@@nomemuitocriativo9792 And by that DC proved that their idea of super speed is completely broken. Why would speedsters be able to follow normal speed as normal when they're able of moving 100-1000x faster? The brain can't switch from one to the other fast enough for them to even be able to use their super speed without crashing into some obstacle because their brain needed more time to adjust. Thus, the only ways speedsters make sense is if they're constantly at high speed (movement as well as thinking) and either extremely fast (like the world seems frozen around them like in Megamind and they would be unable to interact normally with any other living being, it would feel like waiting half a day to get an answer for a simple "hi" sent via phone message while receiving the answer one second after sending it in normal time) or the Dash way (fast as a car or a missile, not mach 10+,certainly not at the speed of light). Imagine being so fast that every object you touch could be damaged by the force exerted on it? You want to open a book and it gets torn to pieces due to the force exerted by the speed against the resistance of the material and the effect of gravity. It'd be like every object you move is moving faster than an UFO traversing the atmosphere and burning. This would be a lonely life, mental and emotional torture for the speedster (unless they're not human and don't need social interactions to feel good).
@@augustday9483 Not a comic but one of the episodes of the Justice League cartoon from the DCAU had the villain attack the league via nightmares while they slept and Flash's nightmare was this exact scenario. There is also a scene in the anime Bleach where one of the protagonists infects his opponent with a drug that only grants superhuman time perception but NOT super speed and reflexes before *slowly* stabbing him in his heart shortly afterwards. Essentially, the enemy spent hundreds of years to die in a single stab that took only a few seconds at most in real time and there was nothing he could do about it. Yeah, it is as horrifying as it sounds.
I think Pucci is another good example of how to draw a speedster right. We never see Pucci’s perspective whenever he’s in accelerated time, which allows us to speculate just how he functions. I don’t know which is the scarier option: Pucci gained hyper-awareness of how time flows and is able to perceive regular time while moving at near light-speeds, or Pucci being stuck perceiving everyone as slow and near motionless, ageless, and the shots of him circling around the protagonists is him taking literal *years* to plan a perfect method of attack
I believe that, as long as he is moving, he is thinking at that speed. We see him evade Emporio's bullets because he saw them, but he couldn't evade Jolyne's knife that she threw from underwater. Made In Heaven's power isn't super speed: It's infinite acceleration. The minimun movement generates inertia while active and that allows him to move and think at super speed.That's why, despite being super fast, he never stops circling around. He is literally forced to maintain speed in order to prepare for Star Platinum's time stop. He only stops moving when Star Platinum is on cooldown or when Jotaro is dead. We see it also with non living objects. Newton's first law of motion - sometimes referred to as the law of inertia states that an object at rest stays at rest, and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
Nah. Pucci’s power is just the universe (and him) move 30+ times faster than organic beings. The reason he couldn’t avoid stone free’s knife is either 1. Surprise or 2. Remember, pucci moves the same speed as the universe. When a dude let go of the glass, it instantly fell. So, objects, once you let go of them, return to super speed. Therefore, when stone free threw the knife it began to move as fast as a knife thrown by a stand would move, relative to pucci. So, he was able to be hit by it. The reason pucci had to constantly move when star platinum was off cooldown is because if star platinum timestopped when pucci was close, pucci was dead. By moving around, jotoro would have to expend precious seconds figuring out where pucci went (if he decided to stop time randomly). Standing still means jotoro knows where you are, and can come up with a plan for stopped time.
That and everything affecting him is also sped up, if he starts bleeding then he'll bleed out before anyone can process it, if he suffocates, it all starts and ends in under a moment. He also gets tired just as fast because he isn't moving fast, his stand is preventing everyone else from keeping up with time's speed. In the manga it's explained that he's moving normally and keeping up with the accelerated time while everyone else other than Rohan is kept from doing so. His death happened when someone took advantage of this and gave him oxygen poisoning. He isn't a speedster, he just slows everything else down
An idea i got to use when writing my own speedster character is... I made them lazy. "Yea, i like a good hyperactive speedster, but what if i slowed down that specific part of his character?" I thought to myself when writing this guy (he's still somewhat cocky and still plays a bit with the guys who try to shoot down this nearly unstoppable force of nature). He doesn't like to finish off most criminals quickly as he doesn't take them that seriously. *"Dude, bullets are expensive, why not use them to actually hit someone?"* *"Would you mind not doing any shady crap? I've got a date today"* He could be resolving any and all crimes in the world in just a few hours, but he just prefers playing DDR with his girlfriend, hanging out with his friends or just generally slacking. Like he has all that power but not that much responsibility in a sense. That way, i got to make him as powerful as i'd like while giving his character a significant yet not that detrimental of a flaw, that can also be used for some comedy and keeping the story healthy, even with more superheroes in the same world. Yeah... He's far from perfect because no character should be, but still grows a little during the course of the story.
Or you can take a page from One Piece: Admiral Kizaru. Man is speed, man is light, but he... he's got his head up in the cloud, he did his duty just because it's written on paper to be his duty, he was laid-back but got the fastest and one of the most broken DF. His justice explained all of his character to fans: Unclear Justice. No one really knows where he stands, no one really knows what he stands for. He did his job perfectly, but is it as perfect as it could be or had he been holding back to do just above bare minimum? No one knows. Fact is, due to his DF nature, he became so reliant on it that it stagnated his other development.
That's why I really enjoyed the flash based episodes from the jlu. They kind of treat him like a joke because he's powers make most things a trivial. Everybody in his city likes him because he actually has the time to spend with them. He knows some of his villains on a personal level because he has time on his hands.
The perfect example would be the trickster bar scene. Batman and Orion wanna beat him up for info and the Flash just talks him into giving it up promising to play darts with him at the hospital. As they were leaving Flash tells the Trickster to turn himself in after he finishes his drink. I love that series so much for it's good writing and especially how they use the Flash. He was the crux that held the Justice League's morality together and when an alternative universe's Lex Luthor killed him, it broke the League and they became the authoritarian Justice Lords. God the writing was so good in that show
@@dominicdo2719 Yea, but then there's the scene where he was trying to out run someone's attack but he tripped over a fucking rock or some shit and fell over. And, was out of the fight😆 Nah bruh, JL animated series did Flash wrong.
3:56 What makes One Punch Man so funny is the fact that he is so powerful to the point of utter boredom, and every supervillain pose as much of a threat as a fly to him. The other superheroes, ranging from aliens, wizards, and cyborgs, are baffled over the fact that he's just a regular guy who just spent years working out
Without getting too much into spoilers, One Punch Man also shows how being absolutely OP can be a genuinely engaging flaw. And not a narrative flaw like people like to claim it is with all that "but there's no stakes" nonsense, but rather a character flaw in that it can also serve as a way for the main character to mess up. Something like how there may be a major threat that could kill millions of people, but the hero doesn't do anything about it because they don't perceive it as any more or less threatening than you would a common house fly. It isn't that they're ignoring the problem as much as their overwhelming strength has skewed their perspective to the point they don't even know a problem exists in the first place, therefore making the character more concerned about something minor like getting to the store on time to catch a sale before it expires rather than stopping the bad guys because they see the former as a more significant problem.
I’m kinda thinking of a part in the “Dishonoured” videogame. Where you Corvo with your time manipulating abilities, can slow or stop time for a limited period, and most enemies are helpless, but when you come across the leader of the Assassins, Daud. Where, even when he’s unaware of you, he is immune to your slow time abilities. You cast it, everything else slows down, but Daud just keeps strutting around without a care in the world, because he’s got the same mark as you, and can use the same magic, making him passively immune to time manipulation.
“Nice try, Corvo” I leaned forward in my chair when I stopped time and this motherfucker was talking and moving, took me totally by surprise. You freeze time and the whole world goes black and white, and his servants freeze in place, while you and him go toe to toe.
This video made me think the same thing! Such a great moment- stopping time/ultra speed are nothing new but it was so creative to freeze time and suddenly hear "And now we fight the duel that no two others could fight, against the ticking of the clock."
@@ninjaduck3534 Though like I said, if he’s unaware of you, he just keeps strutting back and forth seemingly unaware that time stop has been activated. I’m a very stealth favouring person. And I kinda find it funny that he’s so lost in his own thoughts that he doesn’t even notice the time stop.
5:18 ... what's even funny about that scene? it's just him saying "welcome to [Area you are in]". People say shit like "welcome to america" or "welcome to london".
Because a Martian is calling his home planet mars, which is a name given to it by a completely different species that they (presumably) have never interacted with. Not really funny but is odd and a bit lazy
I think these issues can be fixed if they just give speedsters some limitations. Like giving them a limited amount of energy to use before they need to stop to recharge. Or make it so they have to be really careful using their power because it causes a sonic boom that can hurt any civilians that are nearby. Or make it so that they have to be super careful when touching people while using super speed, because if he touches people while moving fast, he can kill them or break their bones. So that forces the speedster to only use his powers in a defensive way. (e.g. In order to dodge punches or bullets). But he is unable to use his power to attack or touch people because that could kill them. I think if a speedster existed in real life, he would probably be depressed and bored, because everything around him seems to be moving at a really slow speed. He would probably not even socialize with people because it would be boring trying to carry a conversation in slow motion. He would probably appear to other people like a coward because he doesn't want to fight the bad guys. But it's not that he is afraid of them- He's afraid of killing them. They can show a flash back of him learning to use his powers, and being responsible for killing people. So basically, if he was part of a super hero team, his role would be more of a messenger, or for reconnaissance, or to someone who can disable a weapon quickly. But he would let the rest of the team do the actual fighting.
Really they just need to settle the mechanics and stick with them. DCAU Justice League Flash worked great because most of the time his speed was purely physical, and pushing into the more metaphysical abilities was a huge stress on his body. Then you got CW Flash who....started shooting lightning and summoning lightning swords, even though his powers didn't come from electricity and there was no reason for him to control it.
@@sad_dream even in the comic the "need energy" part is just a character gimmick. A reason to give him "this guy eat a lot" other than logical explanation of "run need calories to burn".
There is Nice from Hamatora who I think have better writing. His power had a lot of limitation compared to other speedster and he can only move as fast as sound. The range is also limited to about 52 meter. But he's always use his power to end the fight as much as possible.
I don't really see any problem with Red Rush. Firstly they still show his power during the fight against Nolan as he was the only one who noticed Nolan before the attack and he was the one single handedly keeping everyone alive by helping them dodge Nolan's attacks And when Nolan killed him, it's not because Nolan was faster than him, it's because Nolan was smarter than him and simply predicted his movement. And besides, Nolan himself is still incredibly fast. Even in RR's last moments they don't forget about his slower perception, as they show his death to be incredibly slow and painful for him, yet almost instant for everyone else
I agree. It's important to remember for all his brute strength, Omni-man is also capable of FTL travel. Him merely flying can cause enough friction with his air and his cape to ignite the atmosphere of an entire planet. Omni-Man is a speedster in his own right.
@@bryanpineda2096 if Nolan was travelling at FTL within the atmosphere, there wouldnt be a habitable planet left. See above: atmospheric ablation. He was travelling at mach speeds while on earth.
Red rush's death just isn't a good example. He gets killed by a viltrumite, specifically a viltrumite who's is outright stated as being capable of travelling at if not past the speed of light. Even then the perception of a speedster initially gives him an advantage until Nolan starts reading how he moves and grabs him. This isn't the flash smacking into a wall of ice, this is a speedster getting read like a book then grabbed by a being that's capable of moving nearly as fast as he is.
@@tomatoboy4950 He does though, the scene where nolan finds out him and his family are being watched is a great example of his supersenses/speed but thats just my take
Viltrumite can't move at the speed of light. If he could, he would have caught Cecil when he was teleporting. Cecil was moving in response to Omni man lunging. It takes a human much longer than the speed of light to respond to a stimulus. Think of it this way: it's like an adult being challenged to grab a toddler with the rule that the toddler is two steps away and you can grab it once it begins moving. An adult can see the toddler begin tensing up to get ready to run and can easily grab the toddler before it takes a step. If you could move at the speed of light, you can grab anyone within a few feet away before they realize what's happened. Not to mention - even if he waited for Cecil to begin pressing the button, if you can move at the speed of light, you'd get to him while his finger was moving toward the button.
@@ninjaguyYT he's capable of moving that fast, but he doesn't actually have perception at anything close to that speed. He has many, many examples of travelling at light speed, it's objective fact about the character. Now, this doesn't 100% transfer to fighting, because his perception can't keep up with that, but he is still capable of moving at blatantly superhuman speeds during fights.
He did, somewhat. At the end of the fight with "Metroman", he flew away and broke the sound barrier. So he was moving incredibly fast, just not as fast as Metroman. Which makes sense when you think about it. His powers were created from just a single piece of Metroman's dandruff. Of course he would be nowhere near the power level of Metroman.
It's also probable that Metroman's super speed is a distinct power, that he has to activate like laser eyes, just one that Megamind didn't know about and so didn't teach Hal about. Flying around fast is just inherent to Tighten's physical abilities, it's not the same as slowing down his perception.
Fun fact: when Metroman uses his super speed, he disappears for one frame potentially suggesting that he was gone for roughly 1/24 of a second in an outside observer's perspective.
I have two ideas to write speedsters: One is to give them a "dial" or "on/off" option, so not always they're gonna be at the top of their perception/mental or physical speed. They might get caught off-guard while in the "low speed" mode and so on. Two is to simply LIMIT THEIR STAMINA. Yes, they run and move fast, but running 10 kilometers in a second will make them just as tired as a normal person running 10 kilometers.
That's a clever idea. Another thing I've always thought would make speedster characters more compelling if they actually have to account for acceleration and momentum. None of this going from 0 to a million miles and hour then stopping on a dime nonsense.
Hmmm. how far would they even be able to go then. I guess no running around the world in seconds but your still fast so the area you could cover is that of an Olympic dash before getting tired or some shit.
I've always wanted a scene in some show or movie where someone tells the speedster to go somewhere 10 miles away and for the speedster to get upset because they can't just run 10 miles (okay, some people could, I absolutely couldn't). Lightning, from the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents had the on/off switch. His speed also aged him faster, so he kept it off as much as possible (sure, you might disassemble a trap in 0.3 seconds instead of a few hours, but a few hours is an incredibly short amount of time to age). Now, even those short amounts of time really start to add up if you don't ration your speed usage.
Writers challenge: give the protagonist a power scaling based on time, training and learning about his powers instead of make him an all-powerful beeing (IMPOSIBLE)
The problems will speedsters is the classic power escalation problem. A character becomes so strong only bad writing and clones can fight them eg Flash, Goku...
It's especially bad with speedsters because Other superheroes who don't have superspeed, are allowed to get hit by regular attacks. It's acceptable when someone else attacks them faster than they can react It's criminal for speedsters because in one scene, EVERYONE is frozen in time and the speedster has all the time in the world to do whatever he wants. But then in the next few episodes, random bums/villains who don't even have any super speed at all are tagging them. It's like having superman fall on his knees every time a normal thug punched him yet he's established to be able to tank a train without so much as a scratch. That's where the problem lies
I think this is why Batman works so well. Most of Batman's shortcomings can be attributed to him just being human, and so the writers don't have to constantly juggle superpowers while challenging him.
The Fall of Doc Future (a web novel) has a great case in the character Flicker, a speedster who can move at speeds very close to the speed of light. It's a key point in the story that Flicker is fast enough, durable enough, and competent enough that absolutely nothing can threaten her, and if she wanted to, she could trivially destroy the entire world in about a second with nobody able to stop her. However, she's limited in her ability to prevent the side effects of moving at this speed, so the main bottleneck on her ability to accomplish things is collateral damage-she can't move at anywhere near her top speed through atmosphere with unleashing immense destruction upon everything around her (see xkcd's What-If? for a great breakdown), and she can't carry anything more than about a few inches in size without completely obliterating it, so her biggest challenge is figuring out how to accomplish her goals without hurting the people she's trying to help.
This is actually really interesting. If you look at the physics of moving really fast while having any mass the collateral damage you can cause would be unimaginable. Take that scene in Invincible where Omniman moves so fast he just lights up a planets atmosphere with the friction caused by air resistance. Or for even more realistic issues look at fighter pilots struggling with the G force of moving so fast. The idea that a speedster had to limit themselves to not cause a ton of collateral damage sounds like an interesting approach to writing a speedster.
@@nicholaslucier-halliday5954 in reality, speedsters cannot save people using their speed. anybody they try to move would be obliterated. it isn't just the whiplash as the Flash and X-men movies depict (where they put a hand behind the person's neck). the G forces would crush anyone's lungs. which leads me to my next point. speedsters need to have invulnerability, they can't withstand the G-forces if they don't have this power. some writers try to solve this by creating the speedforce.
@@HVBRSoF The Fall of Doc Future touches on these points. Flicker never moves anyone directly at super-speed, as her ability to dampen the effects of inertia (which allows her to e.g. wear clothes without tearing straight out of them as soon as she starts moving fast) doesn't extend far enough to cover a person. Instead, she relies on indirect methods, such as shaping bursts of air to push people around-but it's noted that she has to make an effort to avoid significantly injuring people when doing this regardless. To touch on the second point, Flicker's speed ability functions by applying an acceleration to every atom in her body simultaneously, meaning that G-forces don't apply. G-force is caused by _relative_ acceleration (e.g. pulling up in a plane, the bottom of your seat has to push up against your butt, while your blood etc. still has inertia and so experiences the "G-force" as your butt and other parts of your body are pushed up into it), so every part of your body undergoing acceleration at the exact same time negates it. Still, there are a whole host of required secondary powers to make relativistic super-speed function practically, most (or all?) of which are covered in the story.
@@TheGigaBrain I used to bring this up (not that anyone asked) on why a character of mine in City of Heroes could only slightly duplicate a power. And that was because each person with that power actually had a host of related powers (not that most people play it that way). Copying a speedster is fine, but if you can only copy one trait you're still missing out on the inertia cancellation, the enhanced reflexes to not just slam into things, the friction cancellation, etc. Copying super strength? Sure, but every super strong person also had enhanced bones (or they would break when lifting something heavy), enhanced muscle tissue (same reason), enhanced ligaments (again) while ALSO some sort of either innate autonomic system or applied invulnerability... because if your muscles are super strong that applies to ALL muscles, even your heart, which means the slightest cut and your super strong heart just super pumps your entire blood supply as a super pressured hose.
The thing about super speed is that there is no way to exploit, counter or outsmart it the same way you can super strength or any other superpower + the fact comic writers would rather die than be careful with how much power they give their heroes. even if you are too durable to be hurt by the speedster all it would take is a nanosecond of letting your guard down then BAM! dead. it's that batman with prep time meme but unironically.
Aren't there counters to super speed? What if a time manipulor has a constant aura that slows things down around him? Or what if a magic user has a constant force field. Heck, Pre-Crisis Superman was so invulnerable that his molecular density prevented the Flash from phasing through him. There are counters. I don't think they're used as often as they probably should be.
You can absolutely counter and outsmart super speed. It’s been done effectively you just need to be creative. Captain cold in the comics quite literally has a field of absolute zero around him at all times.
@@CatotheE Characters that are made of sand/liquid/gas could also be counters, since they can't be taken down directly with a quick punch. Countering super speed is trickier than other powers but it is doable, specially if you give them limits.
@@ZelphTheWebmancer issues mainly come with all the additional abilities given to them, a punch moving near the speed of light could prob tear apart planets, litteral time travel, the fact writers feel the need to downright say that they can move many times the speed of light (meaning they are functionable unstoppable) lest the enemy use another method of detecting stuff
Red Rush wasn’t beaten by some two bit villain, he was beaten by Omni Man, one of the most powerful beings in the Invincible canon. Omni Man is also really fast and he kills Red Rush really fast. You can see the other Guardians running to save Red Rush in very slow motion as Omni Man kills him.
To eleborate on your comment, I think RGS missed a lot of stuff with Red Rush. He complains about the Red Rush subplot but that could be used to justify how Red rush was beaten. RR has a hard time socializing due to his power so it follows that the guardians (possibly including omni man) are the only people he can talk with on a regular basis so when omni man attacks RR isn't in his right mind and can be caught with good timing from an experienced fighter (a point RSG makes in this video.) On top of that, another of RSG's points is that you can have extremely powerful main characters without having to nerf them with the writing but omni man is supposed to be the pinnacle of power in the series (until way later in the comic) so having RR beat him early on would undermine a core plot element.
Red Rush also (stupidly) went all in on being offensive instead of peppering attacks. Nolan is a super durable. Sure, a continuous flurry of punches would eventually tire him out, but we saw that Nolan’s durability was literally destroyed Red Rush’s hands
@@electrotoxins He also complains about the show playing off the "mars aliens" cliche as if they were playing it super straight, like the whole series isn't meta commentary on superhero media - so I think he just bounced off the show in general. Which is fine, but I'd rather he be honest about it lol
Man, that Dash scene as a kid (and even more) was pure hype. It is definitely more interesting to watch a speedster exert their speed in real time than doing this slow-motion comedy bit.
I feel like a good way to reconcile these 2 versions of super speed is to give the characters the power of changing their perception of time. That way they can choose to perceive time normally to have a conversation and be caught off guard by a surprise attack, then adjust to the super slow-mo perception of time to use their powers well
But then there's never a reason not to be out of Slow-mo time in combat until after the villain or whoever is fully immobilized. Plenty of times the flash stops mid combat to chat and get fucked up or somehow can't get past someone with a projectile based weapon when he's supposed to be faster than the projectile ( be it bullet or power beam).
@@Bane520 yeah, writing a plausable villan for a true speedster if the villain isn't a speedster requires either amazing work, or hamstringing the speedster. Unfortunately, they hamstring the speedster without any plot to back it up and it just becomes inconsistent. I am not saying it isn't hard, I am saying put the hamstrings and reasoning in the bloody plot
@@adrianbozdog9702 it will always come down to the writer. The justice league doom movie made a compelling way to defeat the flash. Flash is ultimately a paragon hero so putting a civilian in an obvious trap that is to dangerous to disarm except by unlocking it with a combination-style lock so his arm would be stuck in a single spot for at least a second while he tries thousands of combinations and sticks a bomb in his wrist. But yea for every relatively good example there are 100's of bad ones unfortunately.
Here's my personal aspiring author's explanation to balance out the OP power that is super speed: 1 Learning curve. Super speed is one of the most difficult and dangerous powers to learn. Most speedsters cut their career short by running into a wall and horribly injuring or killing themself. 2 Speed is not strength. Not every one can just pick up and carry to safety/ jail another person, especially if they have body armor a power that changes their body. 3 Dangerous. Even if you can carry another person, there's no guarantee they can handle the speed as well as you can. Heroes as a rule avoid causing harm and super speed is a very easy power to harm people with. Look up a degluving injury, that's what happens if you try and yank a gun out of some one's had at super speed. 4 Energy efficiency. Can you run a marathon? Most cities are further than 26 miles away from each other. Yes there is a degree of enhanced stamina and ease of travel with super speed. Most fights with speedsters are decided in the first few moves, it's a win or gas out. 5 Environmental factors. Difficult terrain, enclosed spaces, winding pathways, slick footing, steep slopes, low visibility and are not conducive to a speedster. 6 Predictability and a painted target. If you have a power as effective as super speed and are able to take most foes down with little to no challenge then you have no incentive to learn new techniques. This makes you predictable. On the other hand every one knows super speed is such a broken power, so highly experienced, skilled, cautious, trained, or scheming enemies will have a counter planed. Super speed is a high risk high reward power, it's easy to find some one who has it but rare to find a master.
To add on to the learning curve, speedsters would have to worry about gravity much more than they are usually written. Gravity is the aspect of speedsters that I think gets fumbled the worst, and most speedster scenes that slow things down are a great example of this. Almost universally, the character is depicted falling at a speed matching their own movement, but realistically they would fall at the same speed everyone else does. That makes leaving the ground for any reason a serious concern, and if you want to be really realistic running super fast at all would barely work. Stepping too fast relative to your stride will see you with pretty significant air time after every step, less running and more hopping, and eventually jumping if you go fast enough. Honestly, forcing speedsters to obey gravity is the only thing you would need to really balance them out. Control is what makes speedsters so powerful, and gravity takes a lot of that away.
@@calsalitra4689That's true, especially if the speedster perceives time differently falling like a regular person would be a painfully slow experience. And if a villain can hit a regular falling target just fine than a speedster if fair game. I get that every superhero ignores some basic law of physics or biology too make them look cooler. I mean with how often batman is depicted being injured, and how he's usually considered to be older than most of the league he should have been forced to retire before he started the league. This is what realism is, not that edgy grimdark BS that every one who's herd of Watchmen thinks realism is.
@@Chickenmonstrero I had mentioned this near the end of my comment. Fast enough super speed and you turn into a super jumper instead of a super runner. Still extremely useful and not much of a disadvantage in an area with enough solid surfaces to jump off of. I think that's fair personally, an ability situationally useful based off of terrain is a lot more interesting to work around than an ability that can only be beaten if the user is an idiot.
@@calsalitra4689 Maybe a speedster with appropriate equipment could take advantage of their speed and literally fly on their own power - whether that be through added wings, airfoil/suit of some sort with man-powered propulsion, or a whole man-powered vehicle customized to their needs
This made me think of a variant- conservation of air displacement. Start going even 50mph and you’re pushing air around like a subway through a station. Go faster than that and you’re basically creating sonic booms and tornadoes everywhere you go and destroying everyone’s home and offices, and no one wants you around. Plus possibly the complexities of hitting your own shockwaves in tight spaces even if you don’t care about collateral damage.
I was surprised you didn't mention when A-train gets through a person and obliterates her by running super fast. In contrast, much of other speedsters usually "save" other people at pretty high speeds, when in reality they should probably be splashed as well by the high momentum in a short spam
@@tappajaav whiplashes is the least of their problems. people would still be crushed by the g-forces. hooray they saved their spines! as the rest of the body is turned to mush.
i actually like how red rush was portrayed in invincible. Omniman barely was able to catch him and he’s a speedster himself, moving from the US to the Himalayan mountains in under a minute.
i havent seen it but if i had to guess why omniman caught him, it was because of the arrogance that he was describing would be a good conflict in a speedster, seeing how he can just save everyone
A speedster that attacks from a distance by throwing rocks or something instead of punching and kicking, while evading enemy attacks using their speed would be unstoppable.
Thank you SO much for using Kyoto in this video!! The Minecraft winter songs are so underrated and need to be used in the base game! And also yeah, I do agree with your point that speedsters are made to complex for their own good.
Red Rush is still a horrible example to put here. He didn't get defeated by bad writing. He got defeated by a Superman esque character who is nearly as fast as him,Omniman read his moves and figured out his attack pattern and then caught him. Red Rush's downfall was his inexperience in fighting enemies that could actually somewhat keep up with him. Not to mention that Omniman has been holding back significantly the entire time he was on earth,so RR probably underestimated his speed too.
I think the bad writing part is the fact that hes a support hero who went on the offensive instead of protecting his team (I love invincible and wouldn’t even say thats bad writing either tbh)
Meh, he was the one who did big damage to hold him back for a bit, and it's obvious that he's not used to having to be that careful since he's so fast. It was a miscalculation on his part is all. For instance his character out of all of them had the best chance of actually putting down omni man as he had the best offense and defense of the team. Calling it bad writing because a character made a mistake is just idiocy, I mean hell we've seen people from irl team make stupid mistakes even though they're so clearly ahead of everyone else so why can't he?
@@GrasfhNah, that can easily be justified by the specific circumstance. Though his role is support, that's only in planned mobilizations. This whole situation was unplanned and chaotic, with each hero unable to organize their roles properly, which left him no choice but to take offensive and capitalize off of it.
i'm glad you pointed out the fact that you can have an interesting speedster whilst still making them completely op. literally everyone's response is to nerf the speedster and while that is completely valid and true, i've seen many people act as if that's literally the only way you can go about it. i personally find op characters who are actually given conflict that isn't physical to be much more interesting and intellectually stimulating. because it goes beyond just having big super-powered battles and focuses on what having god-like power would do to an indvidual. one punch man explores this concept very well with saitama and so did megamind with metro man. I'm working on my own super hero verse and have a speedster character in development and so far i've made him easily one of the most powerful characters in my verse and he will be treated as such because there's very few people who can realistically hold a candle to him. and it will also make the very few times where he does encounter someone who can genuinely challenge him all the more special because 90% of the time he'll be dealing with criminals with zero to no effort (like a certain cw speedster we all know should've constantly been doing). anyway, great video man. keep up the good work
@@ediakin4993 yeah sonic is a case of op done right. his super speed isn't an insult to the audience's intelligence unlike cw flash. and speaking of flash, flash is done right in certain comics when it's written by writers who actually know just how powerful the character is and respect him. when he isn’t written by competent people we get comic panels like him running into deathstroke's sword or literally any other contrived speedster scene that makes no sense just because the speedster winning means the story won't turn out the way the writers wanted because they lack any sort of creativity or imagination or talent and really never should've been given platforms to make such shitty stories if they were going to fuck it up that badly. speedsters can be powerful and be literal gods themselves but most writers either can't or won't see the potential it has for story telling. imagine having a speedster that's essentially a living deus ex machina because they're so fast that every enemy their hero team comes up against is powerless to do anything to them. it'd kind of be similar to one punch man in the sense that when you know the speedster is there, victory is guaranteed.
Great hero design, speedsters deserve to be God's. But if writers want a B rank character but still have crazy slow-mo scenes, I thought of a character that was able to react so fast that even the flash couldn't tag him, but runs at normal peak human speed. And since he doesn't have "speed force" or whatever gives the speedster power in that universe he shatters his arm if he punches at top speed, so he has a one time use ultra attack but is down for the count after, since he can't run at super speed he has a big flaw to be exploited and grow from if fighting powerful villains
@@austinmodeen7108 yeah. that works for a an actual side character speedster. if the writers actually establish that they have limitations and don't give them "time in a bottle" or "enter flashtime" quicksilver and flash moments then it actually makes sense when the speedster can't instantly defeat the villain and it actually gives the conflict stakes. but most writers can't help themselves because they want to have their cake and eat it too. they want to show how powerful the speedster is and give crazy ass showings of speed like being able to goof off while saving people from an already exploding building or running across an entire fucking city multiple times in the few attoseconds it takes for a nuke to go off and then counteracting said nuke. but when it comes time for the main villain that's been hyped up as the big bad and a major threat, the writers either decide to nerf the speedster in a way that makes no logical sense based on what they've established themselves (like nerfing their speed or worst of all, their intelligence. *cough* barry. *cough*) or doing a complete ass pull and giving the villain an ability that's all of the sudden able to neutralize the speedster or allowing them to rival them when they didn't show that ability before they encountered the speedster. like i said before there's nothing wrong with having an overpowered speedster. but you need to commit to the idea that they are that powerful. IF they do lose, it has to make sense and follow the rules that you established about the speedster's powers earlier on in the story. if a writer is not up for the challenge of making a speedster a god and committing to that idea, they should heavily limit their speed so that they can fit the roll of being a "fodder side character" who never gets the spotlight in a meaningful way and is meant to hype up villains and their more powerful hero allies.
similar to how people see Superman, you can have him fight massive robots, but the long term conflict can be trying to stop Lex Luthor someone he can't touch only delay, so you have to outsmart not rely on said superpowers. another way is focus less on fights and physical conflict and more on their emotions and internal conflict.
Actually, we can see Metroman going ever so slightly transparent on his screen and appear at the same time behind Megamind for 1 frame. During the original "FIRE!!!" scene.
I still remember how bad it pissed me off that one comic where the joker defeats flash by tricking him to walk into a room and then closing the door the moment he walks in and gases him completely ignoring flash not only can accelerate himself enough to just walk out like nothing, but also he can phase through surfaces it's like one of his most premiere powers
Also if he really is that fast, a mostly normal human like the Joker shutting a door would be beyond easy to react to, it's like "predicting" where a speedster is going to be and then shooting at that spot, unless the speedster consciously decides to just walk into the bullet that should look stationary, it should not work.
I think this falls under a larger bracket of just writing powerful characters. Jujutsu Kaisen's Gojo Satoru is a great example, he's incredibly powerful and the plot of that show literally hinges around what he is going to do.
Difference is Gojo is very much intended as that hideously overpowered character. Red Rush is a guy who dies to signal the actual start of the story. Gojo is a character who's so strong he influences the story, so a large part of the story is about his own issues with politics, ones he can't just no sell with his powers. Plus, him being such a strong mentor makes it that much more impactful when he fuckin disappears before the first proper boss fight
so as mentioned above, these need to be side characters, or give them something that their power can't solve, it still come down to the same problem (Jujutsu dodge it by having him as a side character that constantly push others, hence, excuse for him not fighting). Reason why I have no problem with Quick Silver scene, I call it bs the moment it play out, but it is so cool that it give a pass. THEN everyone else start to copy this and it become very repetitive and the problem become obvious
The scene of Red Rush's girlfriend referencing his "speed react mode" was a setup to make the audience aware of how much he suffered once Omniman killed him. Watching his death(among the others) with that detail in mind adds a gritty layer to the depth of Omniman's character and sets a new tone for the show from that point on.
That's the worst fucking part, it's literal audience bait from the writters going "oh man we are gonna put a lot of background on these characters so you feel bad then they die! we are geniuses" Sadly a lot of people fall for this and they think it's good writting while it's not, it's mostly lazy from them instead of actually developing the characters over a very long time they just give you short bursts of "emotions" from them. This happens with Last of us 2 too, the writters give you a shit ton of flashbacks and a pregnant women and says "here, feel sad for killing them" and everyone clapped at it
@superbeta1716 proper character development is huge but the investment of time per character has to be proportional to their relevance in the story development. There's only so much time in an episode, so for you to say "developing the characters over a very long period of time" doesn't actually seem useful. The scene I referenced with Red Rush gives insight to how bad his death was, which adds some depth. Other than this brief scene, neither he or any of the other heroes have actual backstory because it isn't necessary, we don't need to mourn them. We just need this exposure to understand Omniman's worldview going forward.
@@superbeta1716Yes, giving a character a sudden blurb of screen time to flesh them out and make them more sympathetic right before killing them off is a writing crutch. But is that what really happened? Were the writers trying to make the audience “feel” for them, or were they trying to make the audience fucking terrified of Omni-Man? Those characters were never meant to be fleshed out, they were never the focus of the story, and using the trope served a purpose. Even when Rush’s wife appears later, her doubts about his death are what start Debbie’s own doubts, and are a further chance to show Omni-Man’s dismissive and uncaring attitude towards what happened. The only negative connotation from using the trope should come from a meaningless death, one that doesn’t fulfill a purpose in the story. A side character that gets nuked after a dive into their past but doesn’t effect the main character or story further than “people are sad about it” would be a cheap emotional trick.
In any story there has to be some kind of conflict. In an action series the conflict is usually physical. "Is the hero going to beat the bad guy?" But that's not the only type of conflict. There are plenty of nonphysical conflicts like "Am I doing the right thing?" "Am I setting a good example for my loved ones?" "Will I be accepted for who I am?" And tons more. My favorite story of this type is probably "For the Man Who Has Everything". It does technically have a villain, Mongul spends the whole story beating up on Wonder Woman, but there's never really any doubt that Superman could take him down. The real conflict is whether or not he has the strength of will to give up his heart's desire. Highly recommend it. If these types of stories are not your cup of tea, that's totally fine. I love a good old fashioned superhero smack down as much as the next guy. But it's important to understand what kind of story it is. If the hero is the most powerful character in the setting the conflict cannot be physical, without it becoming either very boring or very inconsistent. There has to be some kind of mental or emotional struggle for them to overcome, which can be just as compelling.
"For the Man Who Has Everything" was written by Alan Moore, and there's even an episode of the Justice League cartoon that adapts it. And unlike MOST adaptations of Alan Moore's work, the man himself actually loved it. Although, the cartoon does miss out on my favorite quote from the narration: "He hears a voice like Armageddon shouting his name... and a four-hundred-mile-an-hour wind slams into him like a steam hammer as big as the world. And he knows that he is far too late."
and this is the reason why Tighten failed to win against megamind, Metroman was so fast that not even megamind knew he had this super speed power, so megamind never teached Tighten to use this power
Also, regarding the "is he always super fast and learned how to talk slow"... that is actually how it works. They can either *force* themselves to stop being super fast and super perceptive, or they really learn how to talk slowly by their standards. Many speedsters, like Flash in the DC animations/comics, THINK super fast too. That does make them cocky, because they mistake thinking fast for being intelligent.
The theory I've developed for a sane superspeeder who has "time-stop mode" and also can function in normal speed is that it functions akin to how normal people will describe "time slowing down." Most of the time, if asked, they won't say that it truly seemed to be frozen or anything, but that they had a hyper-awareness of the moment. Most of the time, then, I think speedsters are subconsciously monitoring things at super-speed, but they're perceiving time consciously at a normal rate. It's just that, when they need to react to the sudden event, their subconscious awareness of things surges to their consciousness and they are able to act at that speed. The only speedster trick that wouldn't be doable with that version is Metro Man's self-examination scene, because he also obviously was thinking at that speed and truly perceiving time as effectively frozen. This sense I'm hypothesizing wouldn't truly allow "stop and smell the roses" style thinking. It'd still be very in the moment. But it gives the time to appreciate and be aware of the moment, to react casually to the relatively slow-moving events and objects, etc., even though consciously there's a simultaneous realization that this moment is just a moment and is over in a moment's time.
Yeah, there were a couple points in this video that were flimsy as presented. This was JUST recommend to me, so I’ll have to watch their other videos and circle back, but my immediate thought about quicksilver and Apocalypse is that a speedster isn’t less valid because they’re proven to be mortal. There’s always a bigger (or faster) fish.
To be fair, the Flash thinks so fast that he can think of every possible outcome. That's why he's unbeatable in chess. He is also a scientist, AND has the qualifications to be a detective.
@@fransthefox9682 And yet, he still can't figure out how to get past a normal-speed super-strong guy in a corridor where he could stretch out both his arms and have room between him and both the wall and the guy.
In all honesty writing a good speedster needs to either stop them from being too fast or to give them a downside like running out of energy so that they wouldn't have to be stopped with the dumbest thing ever Also awesome video +I completely agree with u don't miss understand
It really not, writing speedster is not about fallowing logic, or appealing to reality. Its all about knowing what to do with them and what does the story focus on.
@@spookynigga3112 well then that's the same thought the writers had And that's the problem If u don't care bout logic it's alright But u gotta keep on doing something so that the speedster would still be the speedster they r
@@Mister_Fate Twisting my words that low my man. I clearly said your appealing to reality aka your asking fiction to act like the real world something that can't append as if that would append 99% of fiction will not exist. That why we are able to see electra punch a guy a new hole in his body or fight super skrull becasue she is simply a better fighter then them and poses the technique to do. A good writer can work with fiction limitation. Its the basis of writing anything fictional that like writing 101
I saw one fanfic that justifies DCAU Flash processing things so fast but also still being fallible. Namely, that a lot of the time, he's not using that mental speed to focus on catching criminals and solving crimes but is instead using it on 'inane' thoughts and such, like pondering the idea of marketing his costume in some ways, whether or not he could get away with slipping one onto Batman, if he should wait until April Fools to attempt such a thing for some safety, ect. Making a speedster non-serious most of the time seems like a good way to go about it. It gives a reason why they can lose (they're not taking things as serious as they probably should be) while also adding levity to the story and making them going all out more impressive (DCAU Flash is TERRIFYING when he stops holding back). It also gives the justification as to why they seem like the 'side character' despite having the potential to be a... well, frontrunner in their own right: They don't want to be, they leave that for people who are more serious about that sort of thing and they'll pitch in to help them.
@@Popthebop It's called Justice, it's a crossover between One Piece and Justice League. Admittedly, he apparently got the idea from someone else but it's still a good demonstration of things.
Something that was brought up in the new 52 run of the flash that I found interesting was captain cold using his powers (he and other rogues briefly had powers) could slow down the flash’s vibrations, which is scientifically proven. Absolute zero slows down vibrations and slows the flash down. I just thought it was an interesting way to weaken the flash.
At absolute zero, no amount of insulation would stop that man from turning himself into a popsicle, unless he was phasing into reality from another dimension, in which case he already has a counter to speed.
@@emeraldpichu1 it is a comic book, not all science is 100% accurate. I’m also going off of memory and he may not have reached absolute zero but still close. I just thought it was neat that they used something real (insane cold slowing down vibrations) and then used it in an interesting way.
@@cbrock5529 the idea isn’t uninteresting it’s just the amount of cold is ridiculous. pretty much everything stops existing at that level of cold using it in a gun is just beyond dumb in terms of trying to make a weapon
Jonny quickly found out what captain cold could do if he truelly wanted to get rid of the flash. I mean having your leg flash frozen and then shatter and bleeding out on the floor is quite the death. Both the Flashses and Rogues hell ALL villains know one thing when it come to central city. " Don't fuck with it and they will go easy on you " that why they talk so much witch is quite interesting as it admit that all the speedster never go all out unless its them going against another speedster of similar stature.
I suppose it all comes down to marketing. A movie needs captivating scenes to turn people into fans of superheroes and to attract consumers. Just imagine how dull it would be if X-Men didn't have slow-motion scenes. While this may have been detrimental to the writing, it also brought us some truly memorable scenes that were worth watching
Yeah like i said in the video i don't really care about bad speedster writing that much unless its flat out ridiculous. I usually perfer entertainment instead of consistency especially since most these movies aren't even that good. Quicksilver was the best part of x men apocolypse. And i didn't care for avengers quicksilver or red rush but they still had entertaining moments. But Dash and Metro man are proof that you can have both entertainment and consistency.
@@RSG200Something else worth pointing out about Megamind is that Metroman never even showed his full power against him. The speed in particular. He clearly had no idea he could go that fast. That's why Tighten never ends up using it because. Megamind, his teacher, didn't know he could do that. That was how outclassed he really was in their hero/villain charade.
What I like about Quicksilver in the X-men is time still passes, and if he gets distracted, than people canstill get hurt. Like how he only moves the bullets away from Charles and Magneto as they are about to hit them. So he can't get distracted or else bad things ensue.
5:31 I feel like the perspective of invincible is one of obvious mockery of super hero/villains, while also using the cliches to their advantage for writing good psycholigical scenes and character interactions. Everything in between that (the first and last episode) have bits and pieces of what its core essence is, but it also follows the super hero tropes with its own twists in order to further its narrative in a compelling way while also achieving other important elements of having a good piece of art.
As usual Megamind proves to be the greatest film ever written. Also, one of my favorite speedsters is the main villain of the My Hero Academia spin off, My Hero Academia Vigilantes. He’s the typical “physical enchantment + perceives time faster”, but it’s interesting because MHA always takes the time to consider how quirks would really work in a biological sense. For 6 (that’s his name, 6), he is basically speeding up his brain at the cost of increased oxygen consumption, which means there is a hard limit to how long he can stay in super speed mode, which is essentially how quickly and efficiently he can breathe. They play into this later in the series where at one point he modifies his body for optimized oxygen consumption and stability while running, and it’s really sick. I won’t go into it any further for the sake of spoilers, because I highly recommend everyone read it. It’s been finished for a while, it’s not that long, and I honestly might like it better than the main series.
One thing to point out with Omni Man vs Red Rush at least is that Omni-Man is actually faster than Red Rush, just with far worse reaction time and 'speed reaction'. He moves so quickly that he can cause massive explosions just by moving through the environment when he tries and while it's not definitively shown yet the end implies he can move at FTL speeds. The only reason why Red Rush was able to dance around him at first was that his reactions are much better than Omni-Man, Omni-Man could barely keep track of his movements because of worse reactions and had to predict where he'd be but he was capable of both so he could grab him too quickly for Red Rush to avoid once he spent some time focusing on doing so.
I have to agree 100%. Whether it's the "we're limited to 200mph" speedster, or the 'practically god' speedster, the most important thing is definitely consistency. If they've got so much power that they can time travel and phase through objects, then they shouldn't be forgetting that they do, that should be part of how they act around others. If you want a speedster who actually struggles with villains, don't give him time freezing or kinetic vision, make him a Dash.
Or you actually come up with proper reasons for their enemies to actually be a threat to them. I always hated that about superheroes. The villains nearly always ended up equally matched with the heroes or as mere mooks. How about a weak in power but clever in its application villain who manages to neutralize the speedster because of clever poweruse? I rarely see that done well anywhere. Then there are heroes treated as mere sidekicks who have so much wasted potential it actively hurts me to think about them and their powers. Exploring secondary/support powers should be done more often and better as well. The current state of things is just sad. :(
Could always just create villains who also have similarly ludicrous powersets. If your hero can do it, the only reason you'd make them the ONLY one at that level is to explore the emotional implications of godhood.
@@LiamDerWandrer EXACTLY Had a story I wrote a long time ago, and a good chunk of it was various characters figuring out how to exploit their powers One of the big bads had an ability to close his eyes, and hold them closed. When he opened them, he'd see a snapshot of whatever he was looking at at a point in the future 2x as long as his eyes were closed. He played the stock market. He spied on people. and he figured out how to work that into a fight. Blinking, or holding his eyes closed for 1/2 a second to see what the other was going to do. Guy who could regenerate as long as he wasn't aware of his wounds He tried to rob a store while drunk. Came away unsuccessful, realized that being drunk really isn't good for fighting Tried morphine, it worked, he became addicted. He became a well-known villain He got gang-pressed by the villain listed above, who had surgeons install a clamp on his brain stem. It took them several tries, but since he was unconscious, he healed every time. After that, since he couldn't feel from the neck down, he couldn't be injured from the neck down, and the morphine made his head numb. He became way more dangerous, since his body didn't inhibit his movements whatsoever, and because his regen, despite its restriction, is god-tier fast. He eventually died from someone stabbing him through the eye, because he knew/could "feel" that he'd been stabbed.
Made in Heaven Pucci was treated like an all powerful unstoppable force and is considered one of the strongest people in JoJos a series where people casually stop time and break reality, even though Pucci himself is basically just a speedster on steroids
I would like the idea that (for the flash specifically) when Barry first gets his powers he starts out as a dash type speeedster, someone who can only run super fast but cant actually slow down his perception of time, but Barry can in fact slow down time he is just yet to control it, so sometimes when it suites the writers he's able to slow down his perception of time to fit in with how fast he's moving whilst sometimes he's just running and perceiving things at normal time. This way you can make out that later on in the series when Barry can eventually control his perception then he can be a god and look all cool. Its just they can't make out that barry can always slow down time and then not use it, then its becomes sloppy.
I have literally always thought the same way I hated in the new movie how the other barry could just immediately go at the speed of light abd time travel after like 2 days of having powers and is immediately beyond op
He'd have to be able to slow down time or he physically couldn't run. You can't just run at this max speed but everything is a blur imo. It would take cordination to do that, cordination that you just wouldn't have if you couldn't perceive your body in real time. That's like trying to run with both your legs asleep, it wouldn't make any sense
In asian novels they usually use tiers or levels like in videogames, maybe the tech guy in the flash team could artifially create tiers of powers based on his potential growth that the writers can refer back to.
To be fair Omniman has shown to be really fast himself, the most iconic scene in the show is him leaving the atmosphere in a few seconds. So he could possibly react fast enough to Red rush and catch him off guard. And one time is all he needs, since he’s the one written like a God with all the power.
When it comes to Red Rush I will say that it's not totally implausible that he got taken out. It's made fairly clear that even though Omniman isn't really as fast as him, he is still fast enough to perceive him, that is to say that even though there is a significant speed gap, its not quite at nodiff blitz level that you make it out to be. Omniman didnt need to match Red Rush, he just needed to be quick enough to close his hand around Red Rush's arm at which point the immense strength difference made his grip effectively inescapable. To put it another way, if it wouldn't hurt you because your durability is overwhelmingly high, you could probably reach out and grab an object speeding towards you at a much faster speed than you can reach as long as you can at least see the object moving. I think this goes at least some of the way to making it believable that omniman could take out red rush and then go on to not blitz everyone else. Because that's the real issue with red rush; not that he got taken out after getting his powers explored in the way they were; no, the problem is that omniman matching him should mean omniman vastly outspeeds every other guardian. Which is why I'd argue he doesn't match Red Rush but is still faster than the other guardians, just not quite so overwhelmingly so [SPOILERS FOR COMIC]: notably this level of speed for viltrumites is *sort of* backed up in the comics iirc when at one point viltrumites are actually seen speed blitzing Allen the Alien which would just make the speed ordering (at the time, Allen gets significantly stronger and faster over the course of the comic) Average person
Later in comic there is also guy on motor that is fastest thing in the universe. Viltrumaties struggle but are able to react to it, showned in 2 seperate battles. It's same logic like with Dragon Ball battles, these guys are fighting on such a high lvl you just shouldn't question some things.
Didn't read spoilers so sorry if comparison was made, but I look at it like trying to catch a fly out of midair. The fly poses little to no threat to you and you can, for the most part, perceive where it is and follow it with your eyes. The fly is overall faster than a person and difficult to catch. Once the fly is caught though, it is easily destroyed. That was what happened to Red Rush. I think Red Rush was one of the best-done speedsters in somewhat recent media.
@@Kururugi0 yeah the comic spoiler part doesn’t really effect your analogy, it still holds either way. (Btw read the comics they are very good) I would say that A Train from The Boys is a possibly better written speedster simply by nature of not being so overwhelmingly fast that it’s broken
Red Rush got caught because he was attacking in a predictable manner. He also did more damage to Omni-man than the other guardians, even AFTER he was already screwed. It was far from an unreasonable outcome, to have an experienced SOLDIER manage to predict where an enemy was liable to attack from and USE THAT to preemptively flip the table, negating the enemy's advantage. Omni-man did the equivalent of planting an IED to immobilize a tank. The cartoon version of invincible makes it devastating clear, right out of the gate, that if Red Rush hadn't been there, noone would have even landed a hit, because Omni-man would have started taking people out instantly with the element of surprise.
@@jtnachos16 Red Rush absolutely gave them at least the chance to fight back. Somehow their world class teamwork did not go so well in actual life or death situation. Him attacking fairly predictably was a major problem, the lack of any support was the bigger one. When all Omni-man had to focus on was Red Rush, very easy to find a pattern, strategy or even get used to his tempo. They gave him very fair speedster powers as well. If it had been Flash to get caught, he would have vibrated his hands fast enough to go straight through Omni-man's chest or something.
In Megamind you can see Metroman become translucent and his cape visible behind Megamind for a single frame when Megamind is waiting for the ray to fire. It is an extremely good detail that shows everything he did was only for a single frame.
@@qwormuli77 even with limited speed its still tough, i think the only real way to do it right is to have a character like Velocity from Worm where as they go faster their ability to affect the world decreases
@@ty15533Not familiar with Worm but that doesn't make sense intuitively so I don't see how that solves the problem. Like the faster he goes the less force he can generate or something? Either way the problem of speedsters never being able to be defeated will eventually come up once they reach speeds beyond sound and such.
@@ragegaze3482 yes, essentially to protect them from friction and what not their power gradualy phases them out of reality as they go faster. So they’ll be going incredibly fast but their hits feel like you’re being punched by a toddler. Really interesting version of super speed but theyre a side character unfortunately so it doesn’t get explored all that much
Well said. It's really a shame it ends up like this, because you look at scenes like the Quicksilver slow motion scene, and like man, that is so cool and artistically executed. Just please...keep it consistent.
I love this: write your character to the level of thier abilities. Its so simple, but so often forgotten. This is someone I think Across the Spider-Verse did super well with Spot. Spot is usually a joke, but if you think about it, isn't "portals" a god-tier power? Proficiency with the power is the only question and as Spot learns how to master his power he grows into a god-tier superbeing and a true multiversal threat.
Never forget, the original drafts of Incredibles 2 all had Dash as the VILLAIN of the piece. He was supposed to grow into his full power, and as an adult, have this massive complex about how much better he was than everyone else, even his family, who can't keep up with him, creating a parallel between him and Syndrome that was supposed to be the core of the movie. Mind, we got something good so not complaining there, but that sounds neat.
@@Samuel-us5tz It was horrendous, no one behaved according to their character in the first film and the plot was riddled with contrivances. The only good parts were some of the humor and the animation
Regardless of what you thought of the movie, i also really like how Makkari was portrayed in Eternals - incredibly fast, uses the momentum for harder hitting attacks, but still susceptible to regular attacks if they're timed right
i think some of the writing for Superman also applies here. in Justice League Unlimited (and the Justice League series before it to a lesser extent), we get a bit of insight into how Superman feels about life in general with his excellent "world of cardboard" speech. i haven't seen much superhero media in general, but that speech has always stuck with me and i'm sure there's more like it. If you've god godlike powers, what's life really like for you? You can either become the paragon of morality or a godking with unparalleled power. there's also the scene from one of the animated movies where Lex gets to see the world the way Superman does and it damn near breaks him.
Your first example is basically what the good superman stories are. When its not written by tools his stories might have a fight in them but they are not about the fight. They are about a dude who is basically all powerful trying to lead a normal and good life with the burden of being all powerful placed upon him.
This is actually why I liked quicksilver in the mcu, because his speed was not overpowered or broken as to invalidate everyone in the verse. Even in the slow mo scenes we can see him struggle to catch his breath and also the slow motion is not like time stop levels like in the xmen but actually slow motion. His death is still bullshit tho I wanted of more him.
I kind of like how the comics version of The Flash(es) (sometimes but inconsistently) explains the whole slow motion thing. Their minds generally stay in normal speed unless they intentionally speed up or something around them is going in high velocity, forcing their minds to kick into gear to keep up. However, it sometimes kicks into gear without the need or desire to do so. Like when Wally West's father in law starts rambling on about a fishing trip, Wally's dread of the five minutes of boredom causes his brain to kick into gear and stretch that five minutes into several hours.
@@edcaous Wally was the kind of character I always liked to try to get away with in RPGs if the GM would let me. Basically someone who was massively overpowered to it. Insane degree, but he also had equally debilitating flaws at times. (Most twisted when I ever came up with was a half goblin half elf named Vaaj. He had a special magic bean that would allow him to take up to 20 actions in one round. However, they also drove him insane so he was as likely to attack friend as foe, as well as foliage figments of his imagination and his own foot.)
Guys I had to remove some of the Megamind Clips I used in the video so that's why there are now some weird cuts. If you're interested, here's the link to the original version of the video.
ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/DWKdllqhmeI/видео.html
Thanks guys
This was an amazing video and I just subbed. PLEASE watch One punch man
WHAT'S THE OUTRO MUSIC?
@@Multi1 you don't deserve to know until you watch megamind
@@RSG200 Bro, I saw megamind years ago. But that's all the info I need so thank you.
@@Multi1 ruclips.net/video/azxPbBGa5eU/видео.htmlsi=2udz6L9hbCS3BQRT
> gives characters too much powers
> make them beat op villain
> lose to street level crook
peak CW writing
Only applies to the Flash, and other speedsters as well as the Kryptonians. Doesn’t apply to any of the legends, Green Arrow, etc.
@@dylanf3108well duh, Green Arrow is essentially a street level character even though he rubs elbows with omega level characters. Same with Batman but you could propose that his intellect is somewhat of a power
@@user-kv5lq9xm8c Yup, dead tired seeing a dude in a fursona bat going hand to hand with godlike dude like Darkseid
Wait till he meets a boulevard level crook
What is cw
Oh my god, you just made me realize why Metroman became music man, it is not just a funny random joke, he picked music cuz he is shown to actually suck at it both guitar and songwriting. It’s an endeavor that actually challenges him and delivers him an actual journey of improvement. Megamind is such a good movie
That's... Woah...
GENIUS WRITING!!!
@@CyberN-7660it’s just a character beat lol it’s not genius to put the justification offscreen
Yo Metroman was the original Mob Psycho 🤯
@@StarVarianthdang that’s crazy
He just wanted to keep his logo.
Just having super speed implies an entire list of needed powers to remain alive.
This is true for most super powers though. I think handwaving those and just going with it is just needed so these stories can exist. Superhero stories are really as much fantasy as sci-fi.
Although it's also interesting to explore the realistic side of it. My Hero Academia has some interesting story lines about bodies not matching the super power, without spoiling much.
@@aki-senkinn one of the few interesting parts of my hero
You would need super perception because if you don’t have it and go full speed you’ll crash into something, extreme durability for your entire body because your feet are stomping the ground very hard and if you were to go from 0 to max speed it would obliterate your legs. A superpower that makes your speed not destroy everything around it if you are super fast.
Super heart and superblood because if you run as fast as flash it would probably explode your heart. Superpower which lets your organs stay in place and not fly out of your body. Superpower which makes you not have to eat millions of calories after running. Super breathing too because your going so fast.
@@aki-senkinn
'Realistic' is a stretch for MHA.
You would need far, far more than just 'body compatibility' to be able to use their powers.
For instance, Invisible girl wouldn't be able to see, because light goes through her eyes.
Todoroki and Bakugou need super durability, because the G-Forces that they are exposed to when going at max speed would straight up kill a person, or a the very least knock them out. Same with Ingenium.
I don't think I need to explain why Bakugou's 'explosive sweat' is unrealistic. There is no such thing as 'immune to your own explosions', he would literally blow his hands off the first time he tried to use his power.
And how about Super Strength in general. Super strength fundamentally doesn't work how it's usually portrayed in fiction.
Like the scene where Deku punches the giant Robot. In that scene, Deku caved the robot's face in, and stayed in place. In real life, a punch that strong would send his 50kg self soaring through the stratosphere, while the several ton robot itself would be unscathed.
And then there is Mt Lady, whose body would likely collapse under it's own weight due to the square cubed law.
My Favorite version of The Flash is when he is depicted as both being such a speedster he's basically a god to the point ALL villains piss their pants and run from him, and all he really does is wag his finger at them and shame them. There was a comic where it was minor villains talking about why Central City was the worst place to target, and they all bring up stories of some of the biggest villains being utterly humiliated by Flash, like Joker being defeated in a single second and him never targeting Central City again because "it's not fun", to the master of time and space stealing a lollypop from the little girl cuz she stuck her tongue out at him, and when flash shows up, simply wagging his finger, the guy flees through dimension after dimension as Flash follows, all the way to the end of all existence itself.. and Flash is there, holding out his hand for the lollypop. Not a single punch, but he utilizes psychological warfare in the polar opposite way that Batman does. Batman will hurt you, but this iteration of Flash will use the fact that he is basically a god to forcefully humble anyone he faces.
doesnt he show up at the end of that run holding a pizza box and says "pizza's here"
I want to read this, do you have any links to where I could read this?
@@ventusseokay original comment got deleted but readcomicsonline should have it, the specific one you're looking for is Flash 2016: issue 800
Sounds lame
@@ventussei think its wally west flash, not barry allen
Imagine a speedster fighting a character that can slow down time. Once he uses his power, the speedster runs at a normal pace. Now it's just 2 normal dudes fighting each other
That'd be funny.
That's just the episode of Sonic Boom where Eggman slows down time to defeat Sonic before New Year. "Slow for you, of course, is just normal speed."
Sort of related but this sort of effect happened in Justice League when angry Clark starts fighting Flash, extremely cool shot of Clark's eyes moving in the slow motion.
@@Boltscrap Oh yeah, I loved that episode so much lmao
I believe that's Reverse-Flash versus Flash in some continuities.
Fun fact: if you watch Megamind again, the moment after he shouts "FIRE!" where it shows both their faces in the silence, you can briefly see Metroman fade behind Megamind. It almost looks like distortion, but it's clearly him. That's how fast he moved
Yeah that detail is so great. It always sticks out to me on rewatches.
I watched that movie 5 times and never knew that!
I'm pretty sure he appears for exactly one frame. And frankly, at the speeds he's moving, that means he held still _way_ longer than he needed to in order to appear as anything other than a motion blur.
...and that's not quite the right detail.
He is moving there at a relativistic speed, assuming that a couple of hours have passed. Average three-digit minimum Mach numbers are the speed of movement at which explosions are static.
Well, this is nonsense of course. It’s difficult to interact with the outside world at this speed without causing destruction. Only if there is no aura of time around him.
@@андрейиванов-з9ь6н "aura of time" you what?
I love the scene with Metroman's superspeed for the simple detail that he's causing a Doppler effect with the light of his own body.
Metroman is moving so close to the speed of light, that even with the camera matching his pace, light is getting red-shifted or blue-shifted depending on the direction he's going relative to the camera, showing he can still move faster.
Always kind of brushed it off as a kind of motion-blur effect to show he's moving ridiculously fast. Man, the creators of that movie were on another level for quality and detail orientation.
So the sandevistan does that too?
@@urbainleverrier1 Sandevistan is not even remotely close to the speed of light. Through tech & chemicals It speeds up a person’s thought process, and nerve impulses so they perceive time to be moving slower than it is. So possibly the doppler effect for sandevistan is just in the head of the person using it.
It hurts my heart that I slept on Megamind when it first came out. I hope the writers are making new things.
Dude me too@@JE-zl6uy
My only argument is that red rush didn't die in a "bullshit way". He was caught by another super hero that is only marginally slower, but near infinitely stronger, more durable, and more experienced, than himself.
Also, red rush is shown moving slower at the beginning on purpose. He even explains that he was trying to not move too fast in order to prevent people from getting sick.
Which introduces a whole other problem. Accelerating a normal human from 0 to 500mph in a split second to get them away from a villain doesn't save them. It kills them. Violently and explosively.
Omniman is not marginally, but far slower than red rush. The only feat he shows were he uses extreme speed is while flying at top speed straight through everything he comes in contact with. But that´s an entirely different beast, because we neither know how long he had to accelerate to reach these speeds nor if he had anything more than a general idea of where he´s going (i.e. significantly worse speed react than red rush, who could get dressed in superspeed without even damaging his clothes and precisely and non-lethally take out a villain in less than the blink of an eye). In fact, if i remember Omniman´s flight patterns correctly it´s all straight lines and very rare and very sharp turns. That sounds like what we´d expect from someone not really able to carefully adapt their flight path. To catch the arm of red rush he needs to be able to accelerate his arm fast enough that red rush can´t pull back in time. A guy who can react so fast that everything moving at speeds visible to the human eye is standing completely still for him as if time had stopped. It has nothing to do with experience, if I come at you with a knife at the speed of a turtle on a morning jog (still several orders of magnitude faster than so-slow-it-looks-like-no-movement-at-all-in-what-feels-to-you-like-hours) you will not get hit by that knife even if you´ve never seen one your entire life.
If you instead want to argue that he has that speed because he´s shown to have that speed in that very scene, then every other fight we see him in becomes a meteor sized plot hole instead, because he never uses anything close to red rush´s speed for any of his fights against the immortal or against the cyborgs or the kaiju, which we know, because they show those fights on TV in universe, using regular TV cameras, or at least have slow moving everyday objects like helicopters and people moving about in the background.
A thing to mention is how Dash DOES have his moment where the writers are able to be like “look at how cool it is to be a speedster” in the form of the 100 mile dash (specifically the water running). All the while Dash is still a well-written speedster.
Edit: okay yes I understand the tack scene exists at the start of the movie which makes his speed inconsistent, so before you comment that very fact read this first
there are real animals that can run on water (look up "basilisk lizard"), so it's not THAT far out of the realm of possibility
Yes, because they keep his speed ability consistent and not a God level. Thou his movement when pranking his teacher is faster than a blink of an eye, so that kind tears down the entire idea.
Meanwhile Sonic runs _into_ the water and comes back with a fish on his head.
Isn't there a scene toward the beginning where Dash puts a tack on his teacher's chair and it's too fast to be seen? That's a lot faster than he's shown to be for the rest of the movie. Too fast to be seen is a lot faster than 100 or 200 mph or whatever.
@@inafridge8573 yes, but we can argue that that was a 1960 black and white camera. Even bruce lee could punch faster than its framerate.
I don’t know if the 100 Mile Dash scene will ever be beat. It’s just so exciting as we get to see this kid truly let loose for the first time in his life. That chuckle when he runs on water for the first time always puts a big smile on my face
The music makes it next level good!
It's so fun to discover what characters can do alongside them, especially when they characters in question are as expressive as Dash is!
In a big distance, because before that he'd just move very quickly to prank his teacher moving faster than a blink of an eye.
That scene will forever be ingrained in my head since I was 6 on 2006.
I haven’t seen that scene in years, and I still can remember exactly what that chuckle sounds like, it’s so iconic!
Who'd win in a fight:
A speedster that has mastered the speed force that is so fast he is faster than instant travel and can outrun death itself and the end of the universe
or
some middle aged guy with a super soaker full of ice.
ice guy def
slippery shoes
Idk I think ice man has it easily
CW Cold is a wuss
Comic Captain Cold would put up a good fight
@@silverdays2909 so guy with gun that shoots ice wins
3:41 correct. It’s about how saitama became so strong. He can’t feel human anymore. He lost something inside him. Something that made him feel alive.
He fights cause he wants to know the thrill of having your life on the line. But he’s not selfish either. He’s still a good person. He saves people. While he says he’s merely a hero for fun. He’s still a hero.
When other heroes failed against a monster. And he killed it. He claimed the heroes weakened it. That he simply finished it. He undermined his strength, even though it would have increased his rank and profits for being a hero. He instead chose to take the hatred of others. To be called a fraud yet he doesn’t stop being a hero.
And despite his strength. It wasn’t actually battle that gave him purpose. But his student. His fellow heroes. That’s what gave him purpose. He takes the hatred of everyone and doesn’t care. Cause he wants to help people. Cause he wants to be a hero.
the moments when Saitama is truly a Hero aren't when he defeats monsters but when he undermine his own reputation for sake of others
I like how in Megamind during the scene where they're waiting for the sun to warm up, you can see Metro Man blip for a split second. During that split second is when he went into superspeeed mode and began contemplating his life. It's one of my favourite uses of foreshadowing.
best thing is, if you don't know to look for him to blip in and out of the same space, it's almost invisible. It's like he's just standing there
its an easter egg AND foreshadowing. great idea by them.
similar to scenes where a later character is in disguise or in the background of an early scene, then they are introduced later on. then ppl go back and notice it was him in the rewatch.
Tought so as well, but this blip happens, not in the same time, when he uses his superspeed. When he leaves the observatory, you can see, that Megamind is in the process of screaming, while the blip happens, when he is silent.
@@streetplaya23padme scene from episode 1
What scene are you referencing?
The show "'I'm a Virgo" has a Speedster character who actually is stuck permanently in speed mode. She couldn't speak to people for most of her life, until she eventually developed a system that taught her how to listen and speak more slowly. But it's agonizing to her. A simple "Hello" feels like several minutes to her, so for years her primary form of communication was just writing things down and leaving sticky-notes everywhere so people could reply to her at their speed without her having to wait on them to finish a thought. It creates a fun and compelling character out of someone you'd normally expect to be the most overpowered person in the show.
That is the logical way to resolve it. Speaking uber slowly is not really practical, I'm not sure it's even possible. It'd be like talking the way Dory does in Finding Nemo to the whales or whatever, except like... way worse, and you'd likely mangle the pronunciation to a stupid level. The 'slow' / normal speed people would also probably be indecipherable in speech. It would be a really lonely power to have.
A quick/simple form of communication would be for people to "respond" to some sort of chat/forum.
In theory,
millions would try to talk to them so that would be tons of content for them to respond and act on, in effect, never be bored.
that bogs it down so needlessly though. like, now this character is basically in a completely isolated and tortured existence and that’s just a set dressing for them. you can just make it inconsistent in terms of perception or control and have the exact same character/superpower, which is the point.
@@Spoopballyour terminally online is showing
@@obscure.reference I mean.. the point of this video series was to NOT have these inconsistencies and why they are a bad thing ;)
In defense of the Red Rush scene, Omni Man is also incredibly fast, so it's something akin to the Justice League scene where everyone moves in slow motion around flash, except Superman. So Omni man was able to catch him, and with his overwhelming strength didn't allow Rush an option out. He only took about a second to crush Red Rush's skull, but in that time we see that he punched Omni Man enough times to shred through Nolan's uniform, and break his own hands on the nearly invulnerable skin
Just to add onto this comment: Its also explained in the DC comics and other forms of speedsters with the same perception of time, that it's all about the mental state in which the individual is in. As long as they are in a calm, collected mental state then they will be able to normally live and interact with others in a comfortable state. If there is any rush of anxiety, adrenaline, or any other chemical or mental factor, then it drastically affects the users perception of time. I think the creators of Invincable just assumed everyone kind of knows the whole mental trap cliche with speedsters.
@@SinnyVonDoomso sex last years to a speedster?
I'm fine with the Red Rush scene because people do stupid things when they let their emotions take over.
Red Rush on cerebral full-time support mode would have been too much for Omni-Man to overcome.
For plot reasons, he had to get taken out.
@@DrewBoivieFor plot reasons, he had to not be included in the first place if they can't come up with reason for him to lose
@@SinnyVonDoom That requires a lot of mental gymnastics from the audience. I think such effects of panic and anxiety should be made clear to the audience rather than hoping they understand or remember that cliche, because every fictional world has their own rules and whatnot, so not everyone is going to immediately assume these things
*couldnt catch a bullet*
*fast enough to go back in time*
*Barry fucking allan*
Not just bullet but sometimes even regular punches even a novice martial artist could dodge manage to slip through. I guess that works in few first episodes to hammer home how untrained the character is as a fighter but when the same shit keeps happening at season 6 after the speedster has fought countless enemies, many with speed powers of their own, they should at the very least be able to dodge what a normal human can.
allen
allien
Yeah, not gonna lie...when you mentioned how speedsters got taken out in your previous videos, I just realized how the writers don't know how to write speedsters at all at this point.
Edit: I made this comment a while back and I realize there was a typo pointed out by someone. Thanks. I needed that. And there was also a comment that said that we fans are also kinda to blame and you know what? They're right.
I mean for example, to tell you how OP speedsters are, just take at the old TV shows Teen Titans with the episode titled: LightSpeed. In that episode, we finally see Kid Flash and in just one episode, it shows that it is nearly impossible for him to lose to villians. He got caught on purpose by the Hive Five and then proceeded to escape and make the High Five look like a joke while trashing their entire base. As for when he starts fighting Madame Rouge, yeah he starts to get beaten up a little but is still holding his own. Plus it actually shows that he's getting tired the more the battle wages on. At that point, he doesn't even want to fight Madame Rouge anymore, he just wants to get out of their because he's getting tired and Madame Rouge knows this and tries finishing him off. I was a little upset when I Kid Flash only got a few episodes of screentime in the Teen Titans but I kinda understand why they did that. That episode alone showed how easy it was fir him to single handedly trash seven villians all by himself very efficiently. With him always with the Titans, it would be hard to make a scenario where they have trouble facing a villian and end up losing if the fastest Kid alive can take care of them in a few seconds. So yeah, the writers are to blame but so are we.
its more like you never read any speedster focus book or understand their characters but ay no judging. There plenty of shitty writers.
@@spookynigga3112 oh, I've read the flash comic books. And even then Flash only loses if it's not his comic or the plot demands it tbh.
@@Velocity_YT if flash is all you read then trust me you do not know much about speedsters in comics. Also the flash had multiple writers and keep evolving and does not function all the same but hey no judging like i said there plenty of shitty writers around comics.
@@spookynigga3112 why does RUclips keep deleting your comments?
I was struggling to reply to you just now because of it. RUclips is weird. But yeah, Flash isn't the only comics I've read. I'm just using him as an example. There's the X-Men comics with Quicksilver. Then there's the Archie Sonic Comics...I feel like I've missed some 🤔
@@Velocity_YT I can recommande a few abut i got no idea why, maybe the creator is deleting them who knows.
The whole “why not just a nice 200mph?” made a lot of sense. It’s like writers think that the only way is up and that they have to make speedsters inconceivably fast.
But if you lower that to the speed of a car, something we understand and recognise, it ups the stakes and makes the speed feel genuinely, plausibly fast, not so fast that you can barely comprehend how fast it is
you can even still have the cool time-travel and other aspects of superspeed, but have them be something they need to put effort into activating and/or using these powers have consequences. running so fast that everyone seems to not be moving is exhausting and they can only do it for about 1-3 minutes their perspective or they will run themselves into a coma due to all the calories they burned. using speed to travel back in time shorts out their powers so they can't use superspeed for like a week or so.
Also, 0-200mph instantly is still faster than we can comprehend. Even on the fastest superbikes, it still takes several seconds to reach even 100mph. So even that is still faster than most people will ever experience or understand.
Speed of a car? Wouldn't Captain America then count as a speedster.
@@abiean222Kind of like A Train, he has to eat a sh ton of food in order to keep operating.
Yeah! Remember the movie about that snail that went in a competition with racing cars?
Another angle for the “godlike” speedster is to have him be the villain. I instantly think of Pucci from JoJo Part 6. When he gets Made in Heaven all the heroes are instantly and hopelessly outclassed and it’s absolutely terrifying (it’s a power he’s been working towards for the entire story so it feels earned and not like it comes out of nowhere)
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO MENTIONS HIM!
I still cant get over how fucking cool made in heaven is
MADO IN HEAVEN
and from another aspect, it turned out even with its universe-moving might, Made In Heaven still got its weak point after all - that Pucci is still a meaty human being that breathes oxygen & susceptible to toxic substances, as Emporio found out
@@tranquoccuong890-its-orge i love his defeat so much because it's an incredible sequence of events: weather dying, jolyne getting the disk and handing it to emporio, the entire team trying their absolute best to survive and protect eachother, jolyne sacrificing herself one final time, the fact that pucci had to stop MiH at a certain point to catch emporio who was the only one left and the fact that pucci was the only one who could alter fate. and it doesn't feel like bullshit because fate has been already well established and explained to correct itself through one way or another. absolutely stunning show with a fitting end to the main storyline.
Amazing and very quotable.
(2:17) "Now it is objectively embarrassing when writers can't even follow their own rules, but actually following them really isn't deserving of praise." and
(0:14) "The reason why so many speedsters lose to bad writing is because the writing isn't aware of it's own implications."
Especially that part: "because the writing isn't aware of it's own implications" heavily resonates with me because it's precisely the issue I find in most things I watch these days.
Same issue with writers that can't follow their own rules, because stories written with errors like that give off the feeling that the writer just didn't care enough to think about what he is writing, which I find quite disrespectful toward the audience.
because it feels like in those big blockbuster superhero movies writers don't really care about the media they are portraying and write a story that allows as much cheap drama and "cool" shots as it possible can
notice how the two best speedsters mentioned in this video come from movies that have actual interesting takes on superhero media and play their stories in an interesting and refreshing ways because they are written with passion and deep understanding of what you can and cannot do in a superhero movie
Difference between art and content
If a creator doesn’t care about their work as much a critical and invested watcher does, why even bother creating anything in the first place? It’s a waste of everyone’s time
Something that doesn't happen that often but can be interesting when it does, is when the writers are in the writing room, setting up the premise and all the powers, and they catch one of the implications of what their power system implies, and rather than shy away from it, they lean into it and explore that implication
As an example, I feel like the Avatar franchise does a good job of exploring the consequences of its elemental bending, with the ways that bending is used in construction, mail delivery, transport, games/sports, etc.; how it's accounted for in the way bending-capable prisoners are held; and the logical consequences of how far you can push the ability to control one of the four classical elements
Bro disguised his Metroman appreciation video as a "How to fix Flash and his fast pals" and thought we wouldn't drop a like.
I love your comparison to One Punch Man. It’s a story about a guy struggling with directionless after acquiring too much power, and while there are exciting fights from side characters, his hurdles are never about winning a battle. Basically, the writer knew that One Punch Man couldn’t seriously be threatened in a fight, so he expertly explored the humor of the situation in different ways.
OPM is a parody of shonen tropes. it makes fun of villain monologues, power of friendship, and make believe power ups.
The writer did a similar thing in his other work, Mob Psycho 100.
It's a shame the big money Murata version became repetitive horrible shonen trash. The good early parts are 1:1 with the webcomic. But then.... the massive filler.
The webcomic was and still is excellent. I like how the throwaway villains aren't given a lot of weight; Phoenix Man lives for all of two panels there. In the $$$ version, he wastes over 20 pages. His resurrection ability is just a cliche bad-guy power up before they lose.
If he shows up in the webcomic again someday, *it would be funny and memorable instead.* The reader would be surprised and go "oh yeah, that guy! It totally makes sense he'd come back from the dead... He's a *phoenix* after all."
The Murata version is sad shell of what OPM is supposed to be. Where it used to hold shallow spectacle in contempt, and focus on the emotional aspects of characters... it now revels in time-stalling spectacle.
The writing is so bad - there was even a retcon where one of the heroes kills a bunch of possessed dudes, but they decided to awkwardly redo the chapter, that was already released, because that would have made him unsympathetic. The profit motive and ONE's disinterest in making the webcomic his full time job is killing it : /
What I loved about OPM is that his struggles are completely flipped. they're like "Oh no if this guy keeps monologuing, im gonna miss the sale at the grocery store."
OPM also portrays the grim reality of how society see a hero and a monster. Only the strong (or at least look like it, because King), beautiful and charismatic are praised while the ones who put their lives on the line for duty (Mumen Rider, the police in general), or doesn't have the look of a hero (Saitama) are quickly sidelined and never get the credits they deserve
The way they perceive monsters are just as black and white: They don't look human then they are monsters, even if their motive is completely justified (the sea folks) or just generally harmless (Monoko). Hell, Sweetmask got the worst in the webcomic (manga hasn't reach that point when i write this), doing everything he could to protect the people but he knew the moment he dropped his disguise everyone will instantly turn from admire him to despise him and want him dead. So far i see Garou is the only one other than Saitama to not view monsters in that black and white manner as others do, but unlike Saitama, he despises the heroes and society itself for the hypocrites they are
I watched a show recently called "I'm a Virgo" and it has a speedster who is very interestingly written. Her whole deal is that she was born in superspeed, so from her perspective her parents were always barely moving. As she grows older, she creates a system to communicate with her parents across the speed difference and eventually learns how to slow herself down. It's pretty cool
Weird how no one has heard of this white girl shit but theres plenty of paragraph long comments talking about this show.
How much are you charging for comments? I have a dog fart video im trying to promote, if it has to be about a speedster i can train him to force it out. Figured i'd ask since you people clearly don't have standards.
interesting concept
"She?" pass.
@@stellviahohenheimbruh
@@stellviahohenheimBait.
Worm in general is great at writing powers consistently. One of the side characters is called Velocity and he’s a speedster, with the caveat that the faster he goes the less effect he can have on the world around him. At max speed he was roughly as effective as a sentient breeze
And then you have fuckers like Leviathan, who doesn't have that problem and is a very good representation of what fighting a Speedster is like. Just _blink_ and now you - along with the several dozen people next to you - are dead and he's already traveled six blocks before anyone else can even register what happened.
I like Worm, one of the best parts about it is that there’s not a single boring or uninteresting power set.
But Velocity sucks. Not in the sense that his powers are highly restricted, but in the fact that even *with* those restrictions he still could have made it work.
It’s stated that Velocity’s Breaker state only extended 1-2 inches from his skin, which is why he didn’t wear a cup so that he could run faster. And if he carried anything he’d be weighed down a lot. But there’s still plenty of things that Velocity could have done to make himself more effective other than punching people with the force of an 8 year old.
He could carry Post-It Notes to stick on people’s faces/eyes to disorient them, wear short cleats on his shoes to do more damage when kicking, carry small metal balls to throw at people, wear gloves padded with metal to act as brass knuckles, add tiny claws to the fingertips of his suit to cut people up as he runs, etc.
If Velocity was the protagonist of Worm chances are that we’d see these sort of things be put into effect, or if his power set was given to someone more ruthless like Taylor :P
@@ottol.c.1784 (Worm spoilers)
Yeah I mean that is the drawback of being a minor side character like him, especially one who dies so early and has maybe one or two short appearances. It’s possible he did do a lot of that stuff and we just never saw it
A fellow reader of great stories! I need to do a re-read of Worm it's been ages-
A fellow reader of great stories! I need to do a re-read of Worm it's been ages-
The thing I find interesting about Speedsters is how their speed is minimally impactful to the environment. It's not even a true speedster, it's more like a *magical time-wizard* than speed.
There's always gotta be some kinda speed-caveat/bonus-power that can write off the physics that come from those kinds of speeds
which is annoying cuz those same rules are almost always broken at some point, with them zooming into a room and blowing papers(or debris of the same nature) around, but then if they're blowing papers around, they'd also be blowing up the entire room with a sonic boom
DC gets around it with the mystical speed force, but yeah other speedsters can manipulate fundamental laws of our universe
They kinda touched on that in one episode of Cyborg 009. When Joe woke up one day with his superspeed cranked up to the point that time stood still and was unable to turn it off. He tried touching a piece of paper and it got lit on fire.
Then he sees an accident site mid explosion. He wanted to save the people who were gonna get caught in the blast, but he didn't want them to suddenly burn up like the paper earlier. So after some time thinking, he got the idea to grab some iron bars and dig a trench under the people he wanted to save even if it meant getting his hands burned from the red hot metal
Speed force
@@RivanEXT99 Shouldn't he be lighting fire with every step he takes then? And get boiled by the very air around him?
I remember an episode in one Marvel Comic where Quicksilver is talking to a therapist and asks if they can visualize being in a queue behind several extremely slow elderly people who are dawdling ahead of him and explains that is what his life is like, all of the time.
I think this is the real answer. The biggest limiting factor for a speedster would be *attention.* Even if it’s not like that all the time, whenever they go into super-speed mode, they’re going to effectively spend the same amount of attention a normal person would, so doing 1000 hours of work in half a second would *feel like* 1000 hours.
I wonder if anyone has written a horror comic about this concept. Perceiving super speed as normal time would be like being trapped in hell watching paint dry for 1000 years every day.
@@augustday9483 DC once explained in one of the comics that speedsters are able to perceive time normally as long as they are relaxed and calm, but imagine a speedster having an anxiety attack and being trapped in that feeling for days, maybe even WEEKS in their perspective
@@nomemuitocriativo9792 And by that DC proved that their idea of super speed is completely broken. Why would speedsters be able to follow normal speed as normal when they're able of moving 100-1000x faster? The brain can't switch from one to the other fast enough for them to even be able to use their super speed without crashing into some obstacle because their brain needed more time to adjust.
Thus, the only ways speedsters make sense is if they're constantly at high speed (movement as well as thinking) and either extremely fast (like the world seems frozen around them like in Megamind and they would be unable to interact normally with any other living being, it would feel like waiting half a day to get an answer for a simple "hi" sent via phone message while receiving the answer one second after sending it in normal time) or the Dash way (fast as a car or a missile, not mach 10+,certainly not at the speed of light).
Imagine being so fast that every object you touch could be damaged by the force exerted on it? You want to open a book and it gets torn to pieces due to the force exerted by the speed against the resistance of the material and the effect of gravity. It'd be like every object you move is moving faster than an UFO traversing the atmosphere and burning.
This would be a lonely life, mental and emotional torture for the speedster (unless they're not human and don't need social interactions to feel good).
@@augustday9483 Not a comic but one of the episodes of the Justice League cartoon from the DCAU had the villain attack the league via nightmares while they slept and Flash's nightmare was this exact scenario. There is also a scene in the anime Bleach where one of the protagonists infects his opponent with a drug that only grants superhuman time perception but NOT super speed and reflexes before *slowly* stabbing him in his heart shortly afterwards. Essentially, the enemy spent hundreds of years to die in a single stab that took only a few seconds at most in real time and there was nothing he could do about it. Yeah, it is as horrifying as it sounds.
I think Pucci is another good example of how to draw a speedster right. We never see Pucci’s perspective whenever he’s in accelerated time, which allows us to speculate just how he functions. I don’t know which is the scarier option: Pucci gained hyper-awareness of how time flows and is able to perceive regular time while moving at near light-speeds, or Pucci being stuck perceiving everyone as slow and near motionless, ageless, and the shots of him circling around the protagonists is him taking literal *years* to plan a perfect method of attack
I believe that, as long as he is moving, he is thinking at that speed. We see him evade Emporio's bullets because he saw them, but he couldn't evade Jolyne's knife that she threw from underwater. Made In Heaven's power isn't super speed: It's infinite acceleration. The minimun movement generates inertia while active and that allows him to move and think at super speed.That's why, despite being super fast, he never stops circling around. He is literally forced to maintain speed in order to prepare for Star Platinum's time stop. He only stops moving when Star Platinum is on cooldown or when Jotaro is dead. We see it also with non living objects. Newton's first law of motion - sometimes referred to as the law of inertia states that an object at rest stays at rest, and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.
Pucci is honestly Jojo's best villain IMO
Nah. Pucci’s power is just the universe (and him) move 30+ times faster than organic beings. The reason he couldn’t avoid stone free’s knife is either 1. Surprise or 2. Remember, pucci moves the same speed as the universe. When a dude let go of the glass, it instantly fell. So, objects, once you let go of them, return to super speed. Therefore, when stone free threw the knife it began to move as fast as a knife thrown by a stand would move, relative to pucci. So, he was able to be hit by it. The reason pucci had to constantly move when star platinum was off cooldown is because if star platinum timestopped when pucci was close, pucci was dead. By moving around, jotoro would have to expend precious seconds figuring out where pucci went (if he decided to stop time randomly). Standing still means jotoro knows where you are, and can come up with a plan for stopped time.
That and everything affecting him is also sped up, if he starts bleeding then he'll bleed out before anyone can process it, if he suffocates, it all starts and ends in under a moment. He also gets tired just as fast because he isn't moving fast, his stand is preventing everyone else from keeping up with time's speed. In the manga it's explained that he's moving normally and keeping up with the accelerated time while everyone else other than Rohan is kept from doing so. His death happened when someone took advantage of this and gave him oxygen poisoning. He isn't a speedster, he just slows everything else down
@@johnderat2652 nah Kira yoshikage or funny valentine is better
An idea i got to use when writing my own speedster character is... I made them lazy.
"Yea, i like a good hyperactive speedster, but what if i slowed down that specific part of his character?" I thought to myself when writing this guy (he's still somewhat cocky and still plays a bit with the guys who try to shoot down this nearly unstoppable force of nature). He doesn't like to finish off most criminals quickly as he doesn't take them that seriously.
*"Dude, bullets are expensive, why not use them to actually hit someone?"*
*"Would you mind not doing any shady crap? I've got a date today"*
He could be resolving any and all crimes in the world in just a few hours, but he just prefers playing DDR with his girlfriend, hanging out with his friends or just generally slacking. Like he has all that power but not that much responsibility in a sense.
That way, i got to make him as powerful as i'd like while giving his character a significant yet not that detrimental of a flaw, that can also be used for some comedy and keeping the story healthy, even with more superheroes in the same world.
Yeah... He's far from perfect because no character should be, but still grows a little during the course of the story.
Dead Dead Redemption?
Or you can take a page from One Piece: Admiral Kizaru. Man is speed, man is light, but he... he's got his head up in the cloud, he did his duty just because it's written on paper to be his duty, he was laid-back but got the fastest and one of the most broken DF. His justice explained all of his character to fans: Unclear Justice. No one really knows where he stands, no one really knows what he stands for. He did his job perfectly, but is it as perfect as it could be or had he been holding back to do just above bare minimum? No one knows. Fact is, due to his DF nature, he became so reliant on it that it stagnated his other development.
@@cara-seyunDance dance Revolution
Yeah, he may have Super Speed, but machines can only react so fast, so he has to play fair when playing videogames
That's why I really enjoyed the flash based episodes from the jlu. They kind of treat him like a joke because he's powers make most things a trivial. Everybody in his city likes him because he actually has the time to spend with them. He knows some of his villains on a personal level because he has time on his hands.
Yes, exactly
The perfect example would be the trickster bar scene. Batman and Orion wanna beat him up for info and the Flash just talks him into giving it up promising to play darts with him at the hospital. As they were leaving Flash tells the Trickster to turn himself in after he finishes his drink. I love that series so much for it's good writing and especially how they use the Flash. He was the crux that held the Justice League's morality together and when an alternative universe's Lex Luthor killed him, it broke the League and they became the authoritarian Justice Lords. God the writing was so good in that show
@@dominicdo2719 "Got me again, Flash". Loved that exchange.
@@dominicdo2719JLU is amazing in so many ways
@@dominicdo2719 Yea, but then there's the scene where he was trying to out run someone's attack but he tripped over a fucking rock or some shit and fell over. And, was out of the fight😆
Nah bruh, JL animated series did Flash wrong.
3:56
What makes One Punch Man so funny is the fact that he is so powerful to the point of utter boredom, and every supervillain pose as much of a threat as a fly to him. The other superheroes, ranging from aliens, wizards, and cyborgs, are baffled over the fact that he's just a regular guy who just spent years working out
Without getting too much into spoilers, One Punch Man also shows how being absolutely OP can be a genuinely engaging flaw. And not a narrative flaw like people like to claim it is with all that "but there's no stakes" nonsense, but rather a character flaw in that it can also serve as a way for the main character to mess up. Something like how there may be a major threat that could kill millions of people, but the hero doesn't do anything about it because they don't perceive it as any more or less threatening than you would a common house fly. It isn't that they're ignoring the problem as much as their overwhelming strength has skewed their perspective to the point they don't even know a problem exists in the first place, therefore making the character more concerned about something minor like getting to the store on time to catch a sale before it expires rather than stopping the bad guys because they see the former as a more significant problem.
That fly gave Saitama a lot more problems than the villains
@@reperfan4That FOMO man. It'll get ya.
mosquito ;)@@kokofan50
@@reperfan4OPM goated manga
I’m kinda thinking of a part in the “Dishonoured” videogame. Where you Corvo with your time manipulating abilities, can slow or stop time for a limited period, and most enemies are helpless, but when you come across the leader of the Assassins, Daud. Where, even when he’s unaware of you, he is immune to your slow time abilities. You cast it, everything else slows down, but Daud just keeps strutting around without a care in the world, because he’s got the same mark as you, and can use the same magic, making him passively immune to time manipulation.
“Nice try, Corvo”
I leaned forward in my chair when I stopped time and this motherfucker was talking and moving, took me totally by surprise. You freeze time and the whole world goes black and white, and his servants freeze in place, while you and him go toe to toe.
This video made me think the same thing! Such a great moment- stopping time/ultra speed are nothing new but it was so creative to freeze time and suddenly hear "And now we fight the duel that no two others could fight, against the ticking of the clock."
@@ninjaduck3534 Though like I said, if he’s unaware of you, he just keeps strutting back and forth seemingly unaware that time stop has been activated.
I’m a very stealth favouring person.
And I kinda find it funny that he’s so lost in his own thoughts that he doesn’t even notice the time stop.
Daud:"So it's the same type of mark."
"Now we fight the duel that no two others could fight, against the ticking of the clock"
5:18
... what's even funny about that scene? it's just him saying "welcome to [Area you are in]". People say shit like "welcome to america" or "welcome to london".
He's just edgy for the sake of it. Everything sucks lmfao. This guy even shits on Kungfu Panda LOL
The way the dialogue is delivered maybe
No they don't 💀
@@dhans9662 they do in movies and shit, and like. it's a show. its a reasonable thing for a character to say in a piece of media.
Because a Martian is calling his home planet mars, which is a name given to it by a completely different species that they (presumably) have never interacted with. Not really funny but is odd and a bit lazy
I think these issues can be fixed if they just give speedsters some limitations. Like giving them a limited amount of energy to use before they need to stop to recharge. Or make it so they have to be really careful using their power because it causes a sonic boom that can hurt any civilians that are nearby. Or make it so that they have to be super careful when touching people while using super speed, because if he touches people while moving fast, he can kill them or break their bones. So that forces the speedster to only use his powers in a defensive way. (e.g. In order to dodge punches or bullets). But he is unable to use his power to attack or touch people because that could kill them. I think if a speedster existed in real life, he would probably be depressed and bored, because everything around him seems to be moving at a really slow speed. He would probably not even socialize with people because it would be boring trying to carry a conversation in slow motion. He would probably appear to other people like a coward because he doesn't want to fight the bad guys. But it's not that he is afraid of them- He's afraid of killing them. They can show a flash back of him learning to use his powers, and being responsible for killing people. So basically, if he was part of a super hero team, his role would be more of a messenger, or for reconnaissance, or to someone who can disable a weapon quickly. But he would let the rest of the team do the actual fighting.
Well, The Flash movie kinda did this 😅(the first part of your comment)
Really they just need to settle the mechanics and stick with them. DCAU Justice League Flash worked great because most of the time his speed was purely physical, and pushing into the more metaphysical abilities was a huge stress on his body.
Then you got CW Flash who....started shooting lightning and summoning lightning swords, even though his powers didn't come from electricity and there was no reason for him to control it.
@@sad_dream even in the comic the "need energy" part is just a character gimmick. A reason to give him "this guy eat a lot" other than logical explanation of "run need calories to burn".
There is Nice from Hamatora who I think have better writing. His power had a lot of limitation compared to other speedster and he can only move as fast as sound. The range is also limited to about 52 meter.
But he's always use his power to end the fight as much as possible.
They could also use fast metabolism. Say if he is doing things like lifting people, running, etc he needs to constantly be eating
I don't really see any problem with Red Rush. Firstly they still show his power during the fight against Nolan as he was the only one who noticed Nolan before the attack and he was the one single handedly keeping everyone alive by helping them dodge Nolan's attacks
And when Nolan killed him, it's not because Nolan was faster than him, it's because Nolan was smarter than him and simply predicted his movement. And besides, Nolan himself is still incredibly fast. Even in RR's last moments they don't forget about his slower perception, as they show his death to be incredibly slow and painful for him, yet almost instant for everyone else
I agree. It's important to remember for all his brute strength, Omni-man is also capable of FTL travel. Him merely flying can cause enough friction with his air and his cape to ignite the atmosphere of an entire planet. Omni-Man is a speedster in his own right.
@@baconbitzlolSo, the cyborg soldiers that were fighting Nolan are also FTL?
@@bryanpineda2096 if Nolan was travelling at FTL within the atmosphere, there wouldnt be a habitable planet left. See above: atmospheric ablation. He was travelling at mach speeds while on earth.
Which is exactly why he didn't. He flew incredibly fast on the alien planet though@@baconbitzlol
@@jesusrodriguez4849yea, and he didn't want to destroy the planet, he wanted to conquer it
Red rush's death just isn't a good example. He gets killed by a viltrumite, specifically a viltrumite who's is outright stated as being capable of travelling at if not past the speed of light. Even then the perception of a speedster initially gives him an advantage until Nolan starts reading how he moves and grabs him. This isn't the flash smacking into a wall of ice, this is a speedster getting read like a book then grabbed by a being that's capable of moving nearly as fast as he is.
Yeah but that’s flight, he doesn’t just have superspeed or supersenses or anything
@@tomatoboy4950 He does though, the scene where nolan finds out him and his family are being watched is a great example of his supersenses/speed but thats just my take
Viltrumite can't move at the speed of light. If he could, he would have caught Cecil when he was teleporting.
Cecil was moving in response to Omni man lunging.
It takes a human much longer than the speed of light to respond to a stimulus.
Think of it this way: it's like an adult being challenged to grab a toddler with the rule that the toddler is two steps away and you can grab it once it begins moving.
An adult can see the toddler begin tensing up to get ready to run and can easily grab the toddler before it takes a step.
If you could move at the speed of light, you can grab anyone within a few feet away before they realize what's happened.
Not to mention - even if he waited for Cecil to begin pressing the button, if you can move at the speed of light, you'd get to him while his finger was moving toward the button.
Which is why he gets hit, a lot, during that fight. He literally had to anticipate and guess where Red Rush will hit him to grab him.@@tomatoboy4950
@@ninjaguyYT he's capable of moving that fast, but he doesn't actually have perception at anything close to that speed. He has many, many examples of travelling at light speed, it's objective fact about the character. Now, this doesn't 100% transfer to fighting, because his perception can't keep up with that, but he is still capable of moving at blatantly superhuman speeds during fights.
“Full-time gamer” 3:12 I see what you did there
Metro man IS markaplier
Did you notice the one power that Tighten never seemed to display? He'd never had Metromans speed!
I think his brain was just too slow so when he got super speed he started thinking somewhat faster
He did, somewhat. At the end of the fight with "Metroman", he flew away and broke the sound barrier. So he was moving incredibly fast, just not as fast as Metroman. Which makes sense when you think about it. His powers were created from just a single piece of Metroman's dandruff. Of course he would be nowhere near the power level of Metroman.
@@en4833 it makes me wonder if Mega mind could clone the DNA and make something that is equal to Metroman
It's also probable that Metroman's super speed is a distinct power, that he has to activate like laser eyes, just one that Megamind didn't know about and so didn't teach Hal about. Flying around fast is just inherent to Tighten's physical abilities, it's not the same as slowing down his perception.
@@tau-5794good that he didn't know or megamind would be very dead...
Fun fact: when Metroman uses his super speed, he disappears for one frame potentially suggesting that he was gone for roughly 1/24 of a second in an outside observer's perspective.
I have two ideas to write speedsters: One is to give them a "dial" or "on/off" option, so not always they're gonna be at the top of their perception/mental or physical speed. They might get caught off-guard while in the "low speed" mode and so on. Two is to simply LIMIT THEIR STAMINA. Yes, they run and move fast, but running 10 kilometers in a second will make them just as tired as a normal person running 10 kilometers.
That's a clever idea. Another thing I've always thought would make speedster characters more compelling if they actually have to account for acceleration and momentum. None of this going from 0 to a million miles and hour then stopping on a dime nonsense.
There's a show called Kamen Rider Kabuto for a speedster with a switch.
Hmmm. how far would they even be able to go then. I guess no running around the world in seconds but your still fast so the area you could cover is that of an Olympic dash before getting tired or some shit.
@@theblackoutexplorer2658 Yeah, that's the point. The character would be much more of a very fast fighter than a runner.
I've always wanted a scene in some show or movie where someone tells the speedster to go somewhere 10 miles away and for the speedster to get upset because they can't just run 10 miles (okay, some people could, I absolutely couldn't).
Lightning, from the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents had the on/off switch. His speed also aged him faster, so he kept it off as much as possible (sure, you might disassemble a trap in 0.3 seconds instead of a few hours, but a few hours is an incredibly short amount of time to age). Now, even those short amounts of time really start to add up if you don't ration your speed usage.
Writers challenge: give the protagonist a power scaling based on time, training and learning about his powers instead of make him an all-powerful beeing
(IMPOSIBLE)
Writers don’t only pull this bs with speedsters. They do it with almost any character that has powerful abilities.
The problems will speedsters is the classic power escalation problem. A character becomes so strong only bad writing and clones can fight them eg Flash, Goku...
Yeah duh... but it's the fact this happens to almost all speedsters period. Recognizing a specific group does not devalue the rest.
It's especially bad with speedsters because Other superheroes who don't have superspeed, are allowed to get hit by regular attacks. It's acceptable when someone else attacks them faster than they can react
It's criminal for speedsters because in one scene, EVERYONE is frozen in time and the speedster has all the time in the world to do whatever he wants. But then in the next few episodes, random bums/villains who don't even have any super speed at all are tagging them.
It's like having superman fall on his knees every time a normal thug punched him yet he's established to be able to tank a train without so much as a scratch. That's where the problem lies
I think this is why Batman works so well. Most of Batman's shortcomings can be attributed to him just being human, and so the writers don't have to constantly juggle superpowers while challenging him.
@@SonTomNetwork Yes but on the other hand it leads to God level plot armour and over buffing.
The Fall of Doc Future (a web novel) has a great case in the character Flicker, a speedster who can move at speeds very close to the speed of light. It's a key point in the story that Flicker is fast enough, durable enough, and competent enough that absolutely nothing can threaten her, and if she wanted to, she could trivially destroy the entire world in about a second with nobody able to stop her. However, she's limited in her ability to prevent the side effects of moving at this speed, so the main bottleneck on her ability to accomplish things is collateral damage-she can't move at anywhere near her top speed through atmosphere with unleashing immense destruction upon everything around her (see xkcd's What-If? for a great breakdown), and she can't carry anything more than about a few inches in size without completely obliterating it, so her biggest challenge is figuring out how to accomplish her goals without hurting the people she's trying to help.
This is actually really interesting. If you look at the physics of moving really fast while having any mass the collateral damage you can cause would be unimaginable. Take that scene in Invincible where Omniman moves so fast he just lights up a planets atmosphere with the friction caused by air resistance. Or for even more realistic issues look at fighter pilots struggling with the G force of moving so fast. The idea that a speedster had to limit themselves to not cause a ton of collateral damage sounds like an interesting approach to writing a speedster.
@@nicholaslucier-halliday5954 in reality, speedsters cannot save people using their speed. anybody they try to move would be obliterated. it isn't just the whiplash as the Flash and X-men movies depict (where they put a hand behind the person's neck). the G forces would crush anyone's lungs.
which leads me to my next point. speedsters need to have invulnerability, they can't withstand the G-forces if they don't have this power. some writers try to solve this by creating the speedforce.
@@HVBRSoF The Fall of Doc Future touches on these points. Flicker never moves anyone directly at super-speed, as her ability to dampen the effects of inertia (which allows her to e.g. wear clothes without tearing straight out of them as soon as she starts moving fast) doesn't extend far enough to cover a person. Instead, she relies on indirect methods, such as shaping bursts of air to push people around-but it's noted that she has to make an effort to avoid significantly injuring people when doing this regardless.
To touch on the second point, Flicker's speed ability functions by applying an acceleration to every atom in her body simultaneously, meaning that G-forces don't apply. G-force is caused by _relative_ acceleration (e.g. pulling up in a plane, the bottom of your seat has to push up against your butt, while your blood etc. still has inertia and so experiences the "G-force" as your butt and other parts of your body are pushed up into it), so every part of your body undergoing acceleration at the exact same time negates it.
Still, there are a whole host of required secondary powers to make relativistic super-speed function practically, most (or all?) of which are covered in the story.
@@TheGigaBrain I used to bring this up (not that anyone asked) on why a character of mine in City of Heroes could only slightly duplicate a power. And that was because each person with that power actually had a host of related powers (not that most people play it that way).
Copying a speedster is fine, but if you can only copy one trait you're still missing out on the inertia cancellation, the enhanced reflexes to not just slam into things, the friction cancellation, etc. Copying super strength? Sure, but every super strong person also had enhanced bones (or they would break when lifting something heavy), enhanced muscle tissue (same reason), enhanced ligaments (again) while ALSO some sort of either innate autonomic system or applied invulnerability... because if your muscles are super strong that applies to ALL muscles, even your heart, which means the slightest cut and your super strong heart just super pumps your entire blood supply as a super pressured hose.
So that's the name of the novel! I read it a while back and Flicker came to mind when I watched this video. Thanks.
The thing about super speed is that there is no way to exploit, counter or outsmart it the same way you can super strength or any other superpower + the fact comic writers would rather die than be careful with how much power they give their heroes. even if you are too durable to be hurt by the speedster all it would take is a nanosecond of letting your guard down then BAM! dead. it's that batman with prep time meme but unironically.
Aren't there counters to super speed? What if a time manipulor has a constant aura that slows things down around him? Or what if a magic user has a constant force field. Heck, Pre-Crisis Superman was so invulnerable that his molecular density prevented the Flash from phasing through him. There are counters. I don't think they're used as often as they probably should be.
You can absolutely counter and outsmart super speed. It’s been done effectively you just need to be creative. Captain cold in the comics quite literally has a field of absolute zero around him at all times.
@@CatotheE Characters that are made of sand/liquid/gas could also be counters, since they can't be taken down directly with a quick punch.
Countering super speed is trickier than other powers but it is doable, specially if you give them limits.
@@ZelphTheWebmancer True.
@@ZelphTheWebmancer issues mainly come with all the additional abilities given to them, a punch moving near the speed of light could prob tear apart planets, litteral time travel, the fact writers feel the need to downright say that they can move many times the speed of light (meaning they are functionable unstoppable) lest the enemy use another method of detecting stuff
Dude xmen apocalypse did quicksliver so dirty. The whole crux of his powers was that he basically was ivincible, he just wasnt very motivated
the opening scene is awesome though
Red Rush wasn’t beaten by some two bit villain, he was beaten by Omni Man, one of the most powerful beings in the Invincible canon. Omni Man is also really fast and he kills Red Rush really fast. You can see the other Guardians running to save Red Rush in very slow motion as Omni Man kills him.
To eleborate on your comment,
I think RGS missed a lot of stuff with Red Rush. He complains about the Red Rush subplot but that could be used to justify how Red rush was beaten. RR has a hard time socializing due to his power so it follows that the guardians (possibly including omni man) are the only people he can talk with on a regular basis so when omni man attacks RR isn't in his right mind and can be caught with good timing from an experienced fighter (a point RSG makes in this video.)
On top of that, another of RSG's points is that you can have extremely powerful main characters without having to nerf them with the writing but omni man is supposed to be the pinnacle of power in the series (until way later in the comic) so having RR beat him early on would undermine a core plot element.
Red Rush also (stupidly) went all in on being offensive instead of peppering attacks. Nolan is a super durable. Sure, a continuous flurry of punches would eventually tire him out, but we saw that Nolan’s durability was literally destroyed Red Rush’s hands
@@electrotoxins He also complains about the show playing off the "mars aliens" cliche as if they were playing it super straight, like the whole series isn't meta commentary on superhero media - so I think he just bounced off the show in general. Which is fine, but I'd rather he be honest about it lol
@@evangelionaddict8212yea it seems like he missed the point of the show/comic
Yeah what's weird is this guy thinks metroman is a speedster but omniman isn't, when they're the same superman type trope.
Man, that Dash scene as a kid (and even more) was pure hype. It is definitely more interesting to watch a speedster exert their speed in real time than doing this slow-motion comedy bit.
Or the whole thing about them basically teleporting around the screen,
I feel like a good way to reconcile these 2 versions of super speed is to give the characters the power of changing their perception of time. That way they can choose to perceive time normally to have a conversation and be caught off guard by a surprise attack, then adjust to the super slow-mo perception of time to use their powers well
But then there's never a reason not to be out of Slow-mo time in combat until after the villain or whoever is fully immobilized. Plenty of times the flash stops mid combat to chat and get fucked up or somehow can't get past someone with a projectile based weapon when he's supposed to be faster than the projectile ( be it bullet or power beam).
@@adrianbozdog9702 I honestly feel bad for these writers lmao, it doesn't sound easy.
@@Bane520 yeah, writing a plausable villan for a true speedster if the villain isn't a speedster requires either amazing work, or hamstringing the speedster. Unfortunately, they hamstring the speedster without any plot to back it up and it just becomes inconsistent. I am not saying it isn't hard, I am saying put the hamstrings and reasoning in the bloody plot
@@adrianbozdog9702
Exactly. So when the Flash does it, it makes no sense and ruins the show.
No speedster should ever slow down in combat ever.
@@adrianbozdog9702 it will always come down to the writer. The justice league doom movie made a compelling way to defeat the flash. Flash is ultimately a paragon hero so putting a civilian in an obvious trap that is to dangerous to disarm except by unlocking it with a combination-style lock so his arm would be stuck in a single spot for at least a second while he tries thousands of combinations and sticks a bomb in his wrist. But yea for every relatively good example there are 100's of bad ones unfortunately.
1:40 Markiplier reacting to himself
Here's my personal aspiring author's explanation to balance out the OP power that is super speed:
1 Learning curve. Super speed is one of the most difficult and dangerous powers to learn. Most speedsters cut their career short by running into a wall and horribly injuring or killing themself.
2 Speed is not strength. Not every one can just pick up and carry to safety/ jail another person, especially if they have body armor a power that changes their body.
3 Dangerous. Even if you can carry another person, there's no guarantee they can handle the speed as well as you can. Heroes as a rule avoid causing harm and super speed is a very easy power to harm people with. Look up a degluving injury, that's what happens if you try and yank a gun out of some one's had at super speed.
4 Energy efficiency. Can you run a marathon? Most cities are further than 26 miles away from each other. Yes there is a degree of enhanced stamina and ease of travel with super speed. Most fights with speedsters are decided in the first few moves, it's a win or gas out.
5 Environmental factors. Difficult terrain, enclosed spaces, winding pathways, slick footing, steep slopes, low visibility and are not conducive to a speedster.
6 Predictability and a painted target. If you have a power as effective as super speed and are able to take most foes down with little to no challenge then you have no incentive to learn new techniques. This makes you predictable. On the other hand every one knows super speed is such a broken power, so highly experienced, skilled, cautious, trained, or scheming enemies will have a counter planed.
Super speed is a high risk high reward power, it's easy to find some one who has it but rare to find a master.
To add on to the learning curve, speedsters would have to worry about gravity much more than they are usually written. Gravity is the aspect of speedsters that I think gets fumbled the worst, and most speedster scenes that slow things down are a great example of this. Almost universally, the character is depicted falling at a speed matching their own movement, but realistically they would fall at the same speed everyone else does. That makes leaving the ground for any reason a serious concern, and if you want to be really realistic running super fast at all would barely work. Stepping too fast relative to your stride will see you with pretty significant air time after every step, less running and more hopping, and eventually jumping if you go fast enough.
Honestly, forcing speedsters to obey gravity is the only thing you would need to really balance them out. Control is what makes speedsters so powerful, and gravity takes a lot of that away.
@@calsalitra4689That's true, especially if the speedster perceives time differently falling like a regular person would be a painfully slow experience. And if a villain can hit a regular falling target just fine than a speedster if fair game.
I get that every superhero ignores some basic law of physics or biology too make them look cooler. I mean with how often batman is depicted being injured, and how he's usually considered to be older than most of the league he should have been forced to retire before he started the league.
This is what realism is, not that edgy grimdark BS that every one who's herd of Watchmen thinks realism is.
@@Chickenmonstrero I had mentioned this near the end of my comment. Fast enough super speed and you turn into a super jumper instead of a super runner. Still extremely useful and not much of a disadvantage in an area with enough solid surfaces to jump off of.
I think that's fair personally, an ability situationally useful based off of terrain is a lot more interesting to work around than an ability that can only be beaten if the user is an idiot.
@@calsalitra4689 Maybe a speedster with appropriate equipment could take advantage of their speed and literally fly on their own power - whether that be through added wings, airfoil/suit of some sort with man-powered propulsion, or a whole man-powered vehicle customized to their needs
This made me think of a variant- conservation of air displacement. Start going even 50mph and you’re pushing air around like a subway through a station. Go faster than that and you’re basically creating sonic booms and tornadoes everywhere you go and destroying everyone’s home and offices, and no one wants you around. Plus possibly the complexities of hitting your own shockwaves in tight spaces even if you don’t care about collateral damage.
I was surprised you didn't mention when A-train gets through a person and obliterates her by running super fast. In contrast, much of other speedsters usually "save" other people at pretty high speeds, when in reality they should probably be splashed as well by the high momentum in a short spam
Quicksilver eventually learns how to avoid giving people he helps whiplashes by holding their heads
@@tappajaav yeah but I referred when he enters in contact with them
@@diegoabche Ah, my headcanon is that they decelerate before grabbing anyone with them
@@tappajaav whiplashes is the least of their problems. people would still be crushed by the g-forces. hooray they saved their spines! as the rest of the body is turned to mush.
Most superpowers had something that magically made them 'safer' around other. (regardless of fantasy or sci-fi)
i actually like how red rush was portrayed in invincible. Omniman barely was able to catch him and he’s a speedster himself, moving from the US to the Himalayan mountains in under a minute.
i havent seen it but if i had to guess why omniman caught him, it was because of the arrogance that he was describing would be a good conflict in a speedster, seeing how he can just save everyone
@@momoavatar4960they would of easily won if red rush continued to play as a support and do some chip damage instead of going all out
@@RedoAllwould have*
A speedster that attacks from a distance by throwing rocks or something instead of punching and kicking, while evading enemy attacks using their speed would be unstoppable.
"He's a speedster himself" didn't he get his ass handed to him by like 4 thugs?
Thank you SO much for using Kyoto in this video!! The Minecraft winter songs are so underrated and need to be used in the base game!
And also yeah, I do agree with your point that speedsters are made to complex for their own good.
Red Rush is still a horrible example to put here. He didn't get defeated by bad writing. He got defeated by a Superman esque character who is nearly as fast as him,Omniman read his moves and figured out his attack pattern and then caught him. Red Rush's downfall was his inexperience in fighting enemies that could actually somewhat keep up with him. Not to mention that Omniman has been holding back significantly the entire time he was on earth,so RR probably underestimated his speed too.
I think the bad writing part is the fact that hes a support hero who went on the offensive instead of protecting his team (I love invincible and wouldn’t even say thats bad writing either tbh)
Meh, he was the one who did big damage to hold him back for a bit, and it's obvious that he's not used to having to be that careful since he's so fast. It was a miscalculation on his part is all.
For instance his character out of all of them had the best chance of actually putting down omni man as he had the best offense and defense of the team.
Calling it bad writing because a character made a mistake is just idiocy, I mean hell we've seen people from irl team make stupid mistakes even though they're so clearly ahead of everyone else so why can't he?
@@GrasfhNah, that can easily be justified by the specific circumstance. Though his role is support, that's only in planned mobilizations. This whole situation was unplanned and chaotic, with each hero unable to organize their roles properly, which left him no choice but to take offensive and capitalize off of it.
@@user-tt3lb1yy6i agree
@@Grasfh bad writing isn't characters making mistakes.
Honestly, Smallville Superman is a pretty decent example of a speedster, dude had meme-tier speed and was never afraid to abuse it.
Seeing Bart leave him in the dust was really good.
i'm glad you pointed out the fact that you can have an interesting speedster whilst still making them completely op. literally everyone's response is to nerf the speedster and while that is completely valid and true, i've seen many people act as if that's literally the only way you can go about it. i personally find op characters who are actually given conflict that isn't physical to be much more interesting and intellectually stimulating. because it goes beyond just having big super-powered battles and focuses on what having god-like power would do to an indvidual. one punch man explores this concept very well with saitama and so did megamind with metro man. I'm working on my own super hero verse and have a speedster character in development and so far i've made him easily one of the most powerful characters in my verse and he will be treated as such because there's very few people who can realistically hold a candle to him. and it will also make the very few times where he does encounter someone who can genuinely challenge him all the more special because 90% of the time he'll be dealing with criminals with zero to no effort (like a certain cw speedster we all know should've constantly been doing).
anyway, great video man. keep up the good work
The first thing I remembered was Sonic, he, like all speedsters, just runs fast, but defeats entire armies of advanced robots
@@ediakin4993 yeah sonic is a case of op done right. his super speed isn't an insult to the audience's intelligence unlike cw flash. and speaking of flash, flash is done right in certain comics when it's written by writers who actually know just how powerful the character is and respect him. when he isn’t written by competent people we get comic panels like him running into deathstroke's sword or literally any other contrived speedster scene that makes no sense just because the speedster winning means the story won't turn out the way the writers wanted because they lack any sort of creativity or imagination or talent and really never should've been given platforms to make such shitty stories if they were going to fuck it up that badly. speedsters can be powerful and be literal gods themselves but most writers either can't or won't see the potential it has for story telling. imagine having a speedster that's essentially a living deus ex machina because they're so fast that every enemy their hero team comes up against is powerless to do anything to them. it'd kind of be similar to one punch man in the sense that when you know the speedster is there, victory is guaranteed.
Great hero design, speedsters deserve to be God's. But if writers want a B rank character but still have crazy slow-mo scenes, I thought of a character that was able to react so fast that even the flash couldn't tag him, but runs at normal peak human speed. And since he doesn't have "speed force" or whatever gives the speedster power in that universe he shatters his arm if he punches at top speed, so he has a one time use ultra attack but is down for the count after, since he can't run at super speed he has a big flaw to be exploited and grow from if fighting powerful villains
@@austinmodeen7108 yeah. that works for a an actual side character speedster. if the writers actually establish that they have limitations and don't give them "time in a bottle" or "enter flashtime" quicksilver and flash moments then it actually makes sense when the speedster can't instantly defeat the villain and it actually gives the conflict stakes. but most writers can't help themselves because they want to have their cake and eat it too. they want to show how powerful the speedster is and give crazy ass showings of speed like being able to goof off while saving people from an already exploding building or running across an entire fucking city multiple times in the few attoseconds it takes for a nuke to go off and then counteracting said nuke.
but when it comes time for the main villain that's been hyped up as the big bad and a major threat, the writers either decide to nerf the speedster in a way that makes no logical sense based on what they've established themselves (like nerfing their speed or worst of all, their intelligence. *cough* barry. *cough*) or doing a complete ass pull and giving the villain an ability that's all of the sudden able to neutralize the speedster or allowing them to rival them when they didn't show that ability before they encountered the speedster.
like i said before there's nothing wrong with having an overpowered speedster. but you need to commit to the idea that they are that powerful. IF they do lose, it has to make sense and follow the rules that you established about the speedster's powers earlier on in the story. if a writer is not up for the challenge of making a speedster a god and committing to that idea, they should heavily limit their speed so that they can fit the roll of being a "fodder side character" who never gets the spotlight in a meaningful way and is meant to hype up villains and their more powerful hero allies.
similar to how people see Superman, you can have him fight massive robots, but the long term conflict can be trying to stop Lex Luthor someone he can't touch only delay, so you have to outsmart not rely on said superpowers. another way is focus less on fights and physical conflict and more on their emotions and internal conflict.
Actually, we can see Metroman going ever so slightly transparent on his screen and appear at the same time behind Megamind for 1 frame. During the original "FIRE!!!" scene.
I still remember how bad it pissed me off that one comic where the joker defeats flash by tricking him to walk into a room and then closing the door the moment he walks in and gases him
completely ignoring flash not only can accelerate himself enough to just walk out like nothing, but also he can phase through surfaces
it's like one of his most premiere powers
Also if he really is that fast, a mostly normal human like the Joker shutting a door would be beyond easy to react to, it's like "predicting" where a speedster is going to be and then shooting at that spot, unless the speedster consciously decides to just walk into the bullet that should look stationary, it should not work.
I think this falls under a larger bracket of just writing powerful characters. Jujutsu Kaisen's Gojo Satoru is a great example, he's incredibly powerful and the plot of that show literally hinges around what he is going to do.
Difference is Gojo is very much intended as that hideously overpowered character. Red Rush is a guy who dies to signal the actual start of the story. Gojo is a character who's so strong he influences the story, so a large part of the story is about his own issues with politics, ones he can't just no sell with his powers. Plus, him being such a strong mentor makes it that much more impactful when he fuckin disappears before the first proper boss fight
It's Gojover
He would 100% be called a mary sue girlboss if he's a western made female character.
so as mentioned above, these need to be side characters, or give them something that their power can't solve, it still come down to the same problem (Jujutsu dodge it by having him as a side character that constantly push others, hence, excuse for him not fighting).
Reason why I have no problem with Quick Silver scene, I call it bs the moment it play out, but it is so cool that it give a pass. THEN everyone else start to copy this and it become very repetitive and the problem become obvious
@@yungmuney5903 I'm very confused in your comment.. how would he be a Mary sue if he was introduced st the beginning of the story?
The scene of Red Rush's girlfriend referencing his "speed react mode" was a setup to make the audience aware of how much he suffered once Omniman killed him. Watching his death(among the others) with that detail in mind adds a gritty layer to the depth of Omniman's character and sets a new tone for the show from that point on.
That's the worst fucking part, it's literal audience bait from the writters going "oh man we are gonna put a lot of background on these characters so you feel bad then they die! we are geniuses" Sadly a lot of people fall for this and they think it's good writting while it's not, it's mostly lazy from them instead of actually developing the characters over a very long time they just give you short bursts of "emotions" from them.
This happens with Last of us 2 too, the writters give you a shit ton of flashbacks and a pregnant women and says "here, feel sad for killing them" and everyone clapped at it
@@superbeta1716How is it audience bait? Can't you kill someone that you made audience interested? It's literally just setup/payoff.
@superbeta1716 proper character development is huge but the investment of time per character has to be proportional to their relevance in the story development. There's only so much time in an episode, so for you to say "developing the characters over a very long period of time" doesn't actually seem useful. The scene I referenced with Red Rush gives insight to how bad his death was, which adds some depth. Other than this brief scene, neither he or any of the other heroes have actual backstory because it isn't necessary, we don't need to mourn them. We just need this exposure to understand Omniman's worldview going forward.
@@superbeta1716Yes, giving a character a sudden blurb of screen time to flesh them out and make them more sympathetic right before killing them off is a writing crutch. But is that what really happened? Were the writers trying to make the audience “feel” for them, or were they trying to make the audience fucking terrified of Omni-Man? Those characters were never meant to be fleshed out, they were never the focus of the story, and using the trope served a purpose. Even when Rush’s wife appears later, her doubts about his death are what start Debbie’s own doubts, and are a further chance to show Omni-Man’s dismissive and uncaring attitude towards what happened.
The only negative connotation from using the trope should come from a meaningless death, one that doesn’t fulfill a purpose in the story. A side character that gets nuked after a dive into their past but doesn’t effect the main character or story further than “people are sad about it” would be a cheap emotional trick.
@@sertacg8433 The thing is that they showed us a minimum backstory of the heroes so that when they die we feel bad.
Megamind is honestly a heavily under-rated gem and I love it when people explore it!
i like that both examples of the ideal use of superspeed come from nontraditional superhero stories aimed at families.
I needed this video, because I'm currently working on a film with a speedster and I don't want to mess up anything.
that sounds cool bro good luck. You're doing great things
@@RSG200 🙏
Leaving my comment here so that you can send the link when you make it
@@yourweirduncle4441 will do
i would love to see that. speedsters are my absolute favorite characters
In any story there has to be some kind of conflict. In an action series the conflict is usually physical. "Is the hero going to beat the bad guy?" But that's not the only type of conflict. There are plenty of nonphysical conflicts like "Am I doing the right thing?" "Am I setting a good example for my loved ones?" "Will I be accepted for who I am?" And tons more.
My favorite story of this type is probably "For the Man Who Has Everything". It does technically have a villain, Mongul spends the whole story beating up on Wonder Woman, but there's never really any doubt that Superman could take him down. The real conflict is whether or not he has the strength of will to give up his heart's desire. Highly recommend it.
If these types of stories are not your cup of tea, that's totally fine. I love a good old fashioned superhero smack down as much as the next guy. But it's important to understand what kind of story it is. If the hero is the most powerful character in the setting the conflict cannot be physical, without it becoming either very boring or very inconsistent. There has to be some kind of mental or emotional struggle for them to overcome, which can be just as compelling.
"For the Man Who Has Everything" was written by Alan Moore, and there's even an episode of the Justice League cartoon that adapts it. And unlike MOST adaptations of Alan Moore's work, the man himself actually loved it.
Although, the cartoon does miss out on my favorite quote from the narration: "He hears a voice like Armageddon shouting his name... and a four-hundred-mile-an-hour wind slams into him like a steam hammer as big as the world. And he knows that he is far too late."
and this is the reason why Tighten failed to win against megamind, Metroman was so fast that not even megamind knew he had this super speed power, so megamind never teached Tighten to use this power
Also, regarding the "is he always super fast and learned how to talk slow"... that is actually how it works. They can either *force* themselves to stop being super fast and super perceptive, or they really learn how to talk slowly by their standards. Many speedsters, like Flash in the DC animations/comics, THINK super fast too. That does make them cocky, because they mistake thinking fast for being intelligent.
The theory I've developed for a sane superspeeder who has "time-stop mode" and also can function in normal speed is that it functions akin to how normal people will describe "time slowing down." Most of the time, if asked, they won't say that it truly seemed to be frozen or anything, but that they had a hyper-awareness of the moment. Most of the time, then, I think speedsters are subconsciously monitoring things at super-speed, but they're perceiving time consciously at a normal rate. It's just that, when they need to react to the sudden event, their subconscious awareness of things surges to their consciousness and they are able to act at that speed.
The only speedster trick that wouldn't be doable with that version is Metro Man's self-examination scene, because he also obviously was thinking at that speed and truly perceiving time as effectively frozen. This sense I'm hypothesizing wouldn't truly allow "stop and smell the roses" style thinking. It'd still be very in the moment. But it gives the time to appreciate and be aware of the moment, to react casually to the relatively slow-moving events and objects, etc., even though consciously there's a simultaneous realization that this moment is just a moment and is over in a moment's time.
Yeah, there were a couple points in this video that were flimsy as presented. This was JUST recommend to me, so I’ll have to watch their other videos and circle back, but my immediate thought about quicksilver and Apocalypse is that a speedster isn’t less valid because they’re proven to be mortal. There’s always a bigger (or faster) fish.
To be fair, the Flash thinks so fast that he can think of every possible outcome. That's why he's unbeatable in chess.
He is also a scientist, AND has the qualifications to be a detective.
@@fransthefox9682 And yet, he still can't figure out how to get past a normal-speed super-strong guy in a corridor where he could stretch out both his arms and have room between him and both the wall and the guy.
"I'm stupid, faster! I am making 29753 calculations per femtosecond and they're all WRONG!"
In all honesty writing a good speedster needs to either stop them from being too fast or to give them a downside like running out of energy so that they wouldn't have to be stopped with the dumbest thing ever
Also awesome video
+I completely agree with u don't miss understand
It really not, writing speedster is not about fallowing logic, or appealing to reality. Its all about knowing what to do with them and what does the story focus on.
@@spookynigga3112 well then that's the same thought the writers had
And that's the problem
If u don't care bout logic it's alright
But u gotta keep on doing something so that the speedster would still be the speedster they r
@@Mister_Fate Twisting my words that low my man.
I clearly said your appealing to reality aka your asking fiction to act like the real world something that can't append as if that would append 99% of fiction will not exist. That why we are able to see electra punch a guy a new hole in his body or fight super skrull becasue she is simply a better fighter then them and poses the technique to do.
A good writer can work with fiction limitation. Its the basis of writing anything fictional that like writing 101
@@spookynigga3112 ur right
But u got my words wrong
@@Mister_Fate please explain, what i got wrong if you dont mind.
i love the fact in megamind, we can see metroman for 1 frame behind megamind. such detail.
Another really op speedster would be Pucci. He is practically immortal
I saw one fanfic that justifies DCAU Flash processing things so fast but also still being fallible. Namely, that a lot of the time, he's not using that mental speed to focus on catching criminals and solving crimes but is instead using it on 'inane' thoughts and such, like pondering the idea of marketing his costume in some ways, whether or not he could get away with slipping one onto Batman, if he should wait until April Fools to attempt such a thing for some safety, ect.
Making a speedster non-serious most of the time seems like a good way to go about it. It gives a reason why they can lose (they're not taking things as serious as they probably should be) while also adding levity to the story and making them going all out more impressive (DCAU Flash is TERRIFYING when he stops holding back). It also gives the justification as to why they seem like the 'side character' despite having the potential to be a... well, frontrunner in their own right: They don't want to be, they leave that for people who are more serious about that sort of thing and they'll pitch in to help them.
If you remember the name of the fanfic I’d live to read it
@@Popthebop It's called Justice, it's a crossover between One Piece and Justice League. Admittedly, he apparently got the idea from someone else but it's still a good demonstration of things.
so just give your speedster ADHD
@@LordTyph THANKKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUU
Thats bs, so the flash's weakness is r3 tardation? 😂😂i wouldn't read that in a million years.
Something that was brought up in the new 52 run of the flash that I found interesting was captain cold using his powers (he and other rogues briefly had powers) could slow down the flash’s vibrations, which is scientifically proven. Absolute zero slows down vibrations and slows the flash down. I just thought it was an interesting way to weaken the flash.
At absolute zero, no amount of insulation would stop that man from turning himself into a popsicle, unless he was phasing into reality from another dimension, in which case he already has a counter to speed.
@@emeraldpichu1 it is a comic book, not all science is 100% accurate. I’m also going off of memory and he may not have reached absolute zero but still close. I just thought it was neat that they used something real (insane cold slowing down vibrations) and then used it in an interesting way.
@@cbrock5529 the idea isn’t uninteresting it’s just the amount of cold is ridiculous. pretty much everything stops existing at that level of cold using it in a gun is just beyond dumb in terms of trying to make a weapon
Jonny quickly found out what captain cold could do if he truelly wanted to get rid of the flash. I mean having your leg flash frozen and then shatter and bleeding out on the floor is quite the death.
Both the Flashses and Rogues hell ALL villains know one thing when it come to central city. " Don't fuck with it and they will go easy on you " that why they talk so much witch is quite interesting as it admit that all the speedster never go all out unless its them going against another speedster of similar stature.
@@emeraldpichu1, it takes time to reach thermic equilibrium
I suppose it all comes down to marketing. A movie needs captivating scenes to turn people into fans of superheroes and to attract consumers. Just imagine how dull it would be if X-Men didn't have slow-motion scenes. While this may have been detrimental to the writing, it also brought us some truly memorable scenes that were worth watching
Yeah like i said in the video i don't really care about bad speedster writing that much unless its flat out ridiculous. I usually perfer entertainment instead of consistency especially since most these movies aren't even that good. Quicksilver was the best part of x men apocolypse. And i didn't care for avengers quicksilver or red rush but they still had entertaining moments. But Dash and Metro man are proof that you can have both entertainment and consistency.
@@RSG200 Great video, but please tell me what the name of the song in the end of the video is.
@@RSG200Something else worth pointing out about Megamind is that Metroman never even showed his full power against him. The speed in particular. He clearly had no idea he could go that fast. That's why Tighten never ends up using it because. Megamind, his teacher, didn't know he could do that. That was how outclassed he really was in their hero/villain charade.
Would a dude beating the living hell out of a bunch of mooks at 200MPH really be that dull though
What I like about Quicksilver in the X-men is time still passes, and if he gets distracted, than people canstill get hurt. Like how he only moves the bullets away from Charles and Magneto as they are about to hit them. So he can't get distracted or else bad things ensue.
5:31 I feel like the perspective of invincible is one of obvious mockery of super hero/villains, while also using the cliches to their advantage for writing good psycholigical scenes and character interactions. Everything in between that (the first and last episode) have bits and pieces of what its core essence is, but it also follows the super hero tropes with its own twists in order to further its narrative in a compelling way while also achieving other important elements of having a good piece of art.
He's a marvel fan and your asking him to think beyond what he see's on the screen. Good luck with that
@@realdwarf-hp5pdhe is?
As usual Megamind proves to be the greatest film ever written.
Also, one of my favorite speedsters is the main villain of the My Hero Academia spin off, My Hero Academia Vigilantes. He’s the typical “physical enchantment + perceives time faster”, but it’s interesting because MHA always takes the time to consider how quirks would really work in a biological sense. For 6 (that’s his name, 6), he is basically speeding up his brain at the cost of increased oxygen consumption, which means there is a hard limit to how long he can stay in super speed mode, which is essentially how quickly and efficiently he can breathe. They play into this later in the series where at one point he modifies his body for optimized oxygen consumption and stability while running, and it’s really sick. I won’t go into it any further for the sake of spoilers, because I highly recommend everyone read it. It’s been finished for a while, it’s not that long, and I honestly might like it better than the main series.
Finaly somebody talikg about that villian ✌🏻
One thing to point out with Omni Man vs Red Rush at least is that Omni-Man is actually faster than Red Rush, just with far worse reaction time and 'speed reaction'. He moves so quickly that he can cause massive explosions just by moving through the environment when he tries and while it's not definitively shown yet the end implies he can move at FTL speeds. The only reason why Red Rush was able to dance around him at first was that his reactions are much better than Omni-Man, Omni-Man could barely keep track of his movements because of worse reactions and had to predict where he'd be but he was capable of both so he could grab him too quickly for Red Rush to avoid once he spent some time focusing on doing so.
I have to agree 100%. Whether it's the "we're limited to 200mph" speedster, or the 'practically god' speedster, the most important thing is definitely consistency. If they've got so much power that they can time travel and phase through objects, then they shouldn't be forgetting that they do, that should be part of how they act around others. If you want a speedster who actually struggles with villains, don't give him time freezing or kinetic vision, make him a Dash.
Or you actually come up with proper reasons for their enemies to actually be a threat to them. I always hated that about superheroes. The villains nearly always ended up equally matched with the heroes or as mere mooks. How about a weak in power but clever in its application villain who manages to neutralize the speedster because of clever poweruse? I rarely see that done well anywhere. Then there are heroes treated as mere sidekicks who have so much wasted potential it actively hurts me to think about them and their powers. Exploring secondary/support powers should be done more often and better as well. The current state of things is just sad. :(
Could always just create villains who also have similarly ludicrous powersets. If your hero can do it, the only reason you'd make them the ONLY one at that level is to explore the emotional implications of godhood.
@@LiamDerWandrer
EXACTLY
Had a story I wrote a long time ago, and a good chunk of it was various characters figuring out how to exploit their powers
One of the big bads had an ability to close his eyes, and hold them closed. When he opened them, he'd see a snapshot of whatever he was looking at at a point in the future 2x as long as his eyes were closed.
He played the stock market.
He spied on people.
and he figured out how to work that into a fight. Blinking, or holding his eyes closed for 1/2 a second to see what the other was going to do.
Guy who could regenerate as long as he wasn't aware of his wounds
He tried to rob a store while drunk. Came away unsuccessful, realized that being drunk really isn't good for fighting
Tried morphine, it worked, he became addicted. He became a well-known villain
He got gang-pressed by the villain listed above, who had surgeons install a clamp on his brain stem. It took them several tries, but since he was unconscious, he healed every time. After that, since he couldn't feel from the neck down, he couldn't be injured from the neck down, and the morphine made his head numb. He became way more dangerous, since his body didn't inhibit his movements whatsoever, and because his regen, despite its restriction, is god-tier fast.
He eventually died from someone stabbing him through the eye, because he knew/could "feel" that he'd been stabbed.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 Now I am very interested in that story of yours. Is it available to read anywhere?
Made in Heaven Pucci was treated like an all powerful unstoppable force and is considered one of the strongest people in JoJos a series where people casually stop time and break reality, even though Pucci himself is basically just a speedster on steroids
4:42 The way you said Dash, that low sounding piano note and Dash smugness while he runs as slow as he can, gave me chills.
I would like the idea that (for the flash specifically) when Barry first gets his powers he starts out as a dash type speeedster, someone who can only run super fast but cant actually slow down his perception of time, but Barry can in fact slow down time he is just yet to control it, so sometimes when it suites the writers he's able to slow down his perception of time to fit in with how fast he's moving whilst sometimes he's just running and perceiving things at normal time. This way you can make out that later on in the series when Barry can eventually control his perception then he can be a god and look all cool. Its just they can't make out that barry can always slow down time and then not use it, then its becomes sloppy.
I have literally always thought the same way I hated in the new movie how the other barry could just immediately go at the speed of light abd time travel after like 2 days of having powers and is immediately beyond op
He'd have to be able to slow down time or he physically couldn't run. You can't just run at this max speed but everything is a blur imo. It would take cordination to do that, cordination that you just wouldn't have if you couldn't perceive your body in real time. That's like trying to run with both your legs asleep, it wouldn't make any sense
In asian novels they usually use tiers or levels like in videogames, maybe the tech guy in the flash team could artifially create tiers of powers based on his potential growth that the writers can refer back to.
To be fair Omniman has shown to be really fast himself, the most iconic scene in the show is him leaving the atmosphere in a few seconds. So he could possibly react fast enough to Red rush and catch him off guard. And one time is all he needs, since he’s the one written like a God with all the power.
"Sure, the guy can run fast, but can he set a planet's entire atmosphere on fire as a consequence of flying around in it?" Omni-man, probably.
When it comes to Red Rush I will say that it's not totally implausible that he got taken out. It's made fairly clear that even though Omniman isn't really as fast as him, he is still fast enough to perceive him, that is to say that even though there is a significant speed gap, its not quite at nodiff blitz level that you make it out to be. Omniman didnt need to match Red Rush, he just needed to be quick enough to close his hand around Red Rush's arm at which point the immense strength difference made his grip effectively inescapable. To put it another way, if it wouldn't hurt you because your durability is overwhelmingly high, you could probably reach out and grab an object speeding towards you at a much faster speed than you can reach as long as you can at least see the object moving. I think this goes at least some of the way to making it believable that omniman could take out red rush and then go on to not blitz everyone else. Because that's the real issue with red rush; not that he got taken out after getting his powers explored in the way they were; no, the problem is that omniman matching him should mean omniman vastly outspeeds every other guardian. Which is why I'd argue he doesn't match Red Rush but is still faster than the other guardians, just not quite so overwhelmingly so
[SPOILERS FOR COMIC]: notably this level of speed for viltrumites is *sort of* backed up in the comics iirc when at one point viltrumites are actually seen speed blitzing Allen the Alien which would just make the speed ordering (at the time, Allen gets significantly stronger and faster over the course of the comic) Average person
Later in comic there is also guy on motor that is fastest thing in the universe. Viltrumaties struggle but are able to react to it, showned in 2 seperate battles. It's same logic like with Dragon Ball battles, these guys are fighting on such a high lvl you just shouldn't question some things.
Didn't read spoilers so sorry if comparison was made, but I look at it like trying to catch a fly out of midair. The fly poses little to no threat to you and you can, for the most part, perceive where it is and follow it with your eyes. The fly is overall faster than a person and difficult to catch. Once the fly is caught though, it is easily destroyed. That was what happened to Red Rush. I think Red Rush was one of the best-done speedsters in somewhat recent media.
@@Kururugi0 yeah the comic spoiler part doesn’t really effect your analogy, it still holds either way. (Btw read the comics they are very good) I would say that A Train from The Boys is a possibly better written speedster simply by nature of not being so overwhelmingly fast that it’s broken
Red Rush got caught because he was attacking in a predictable manner. He also did more damage to Omni-man than the other guardians, even AFTER he was already screwed. It was far from an unreasonable outcome, to have an experienced SOLDIER manage to predict where an enemy was liable to attack from and USE THAT to preemptively flip the table, negating the enemy's advantage. Omni-man did the equivalent of planting an IED to immobilize a tank.
The cartoon version of invincible makes it devastating clear, right out of the gate, that if Red Rush hadn't been there, noone would have even landed a hit, because Omni-man would have started taking people out instantly with the element of surprise.
@@jtnachos16 Red Rush absolutely gave them at least the chance to fight back. Somehow their world class teamwork did not go so well in actual life or death situation. Him attacking fairly predictably was a major problem, the lack of any support was the bigger one. When all Omni-man had to focus on was Red Rush, very easy to find a pattern, strategy or even get used to his tempo. They gave him very fair speedster powers as well. If it had been Flash to get caught, he would have vibrated his hands fast enough to go straight through Omni-man's chest or something.
Surpising no one mentioned Makkari, I thought her scenes in Eternals were pure magic and its crazy becaude she wasn't even the main focus
In Megamind you can see Metroman become translucent and his cape visible behind Megamind for a single frame when Megamind is waiting for the ray to fire. It is an extremely good detail that shows everything he did was only for a single frame.
3:10 best part lmao
3:38 theres still only so many stories you can write with speedsters though unless you heavily limit their speed
So: limit the speed. Also reduces the amount of bullshit needed to be make up considerably, so there's more room for the story as a bonus.
@@qwormuli77 even with limited speed its still tough, i think the only real way to do it right is to have a character like Velocity from Worm where as they go faster their ability to affect the world decreases
@@ty15533Not familiar with Worm but that doesn't make sense intuitively so I don't see how that solves the problem. Like the faster he goes the less force he can generate or something? Either way the problem of speedsters never being able to be defeated will eventually come up once they reach speeds beyond sound and such.
@@ragegaze3482 yes, essentially to protect them from friction and what not their power gradualy phases them out of reality as they go faster. So they’ll be going incredibly fast but their hits feel like you’re being punched by a toddler. Really interesting version of super speed but theyre a side character unfortunately so it doesn’t get explored all that much
Well said. It's really a shame it ends up like this, because you look at scenes like the Quicksilver slow motion scene, and like man, that is so cool and artistically executed. Just please...keep it consistent.
I love this: write your character to the level of thier abilities. Its so simple, but so often forgotten.
This is someone I think Across the Spider-Verse did super well with Spot. Spot is usually a joke, but if you think about it, isn't "portals" a god-tier power? Proficiency with the power is the only question and as Spot learns how to master his power he grows into a god-tier superbeing and a true multiversal threat.
At the speed Metroman was moving the pages of the book and the paper drink cup would likely have caught fire or at the very least been torn.
Never forget, the original drafts of Incredibles 2 all had Dash as the VILLAIN of the piece. He was supposed to grow into his full power, and as an adult, have this massive complex about how much better he was than everyone else, even his family, who can't keep up with him, creating a parallel between him and Syndrome that was supposed to be the core of the movie.
Mind, we got something good so not complaining there, but that sounds neat.
That could’ve been interesting I feel.
>Incredibles 2
>still good
Did we watch the same movie?
@@drgray6073it was a fun cartoon but the themes and story weren't as compelling as the original film
@@Samuel-us5tz It was horrendous, no one behaved according to their character in the first film and the plot was riddled with contrivances. The only good parts were some of the humor and the animation
@@Evarakeus I agree, it was extremely lackluster and when my family and I watched it we were like "This feels so soulless"
4:05 that’s what happened the flash was getting cocky and then reverse flash came along and then Barry decided to get faster
Regardless of what you thought of the movie, i also really like how Makkari was portrayed in Eternals - incredibly fast, uses the momentum for harder hitting attacks, but still susceptible to regular attacks if they're timed right
"One Punch Man, a show that I've never watched but I'm pretty sure that's what it's about"
Flora from "I'm a Virgo" on HBO actually has a really good exploration of a speedster being always in speed mode and perceiving the world super slow.
i think some of the writing for Superman also applies here.
in Justice League Unlimited (and the Justice League series before it to a lesser extent), we get a bit of insight into how Superman feels about life in general with his excellent "world of cardboard" speech.
i haven't seen much superhero media in general, but that speech has always stuck with me and i'm sure there's more like it. If you've god godlike powers, what's life really like for you? You can either become the paragon of morality or a godking with unparalleled power.
there's also the scene from one of the animated movies where Lex gets to see the world the way Superman does and it damn near breaks him.
Ah yes, All-Star Superman. Literally the greatest thing DC has ever made.
Your first example is basically what the good superman stories are. When its not written by tools his stories might have a fight in them but they are not about the fight. They are about a dude who is basically all powerful trying to lead a normal and good life with the burden of being all powerful placed upon him.
This is actually why I liked quicksilver in the mcu, because his speed was not overpowered or broken as to invalidate everyone in the verse. Even in the slow mo scenes we can see him struggle to catch his breath and also the slow motion is not like time stop levels like in the xmen but actually slow motion.
His death is still bullshit tho I wanted of more him.
3:30 lol im confirming that in my head
I kind of like how the comics version of The Flash(es) (sometimes but inconsistently) explains the whole slow motion thing.
Their minds generally stay in normal speed unless they intentionally speed up or something around them is going in high velocity, forcing their minds to kick into gear to keep up.
However, it sometimes kicks into gear without the need or desire to do so. Like when Wally West's father in law starts rambling on about a fishing trip, Wally's dread of the five minutes of boredom causes his brain to kick into gear and stretch that five minutes into several hours.
Man, Wally West's run as the Flash was so good. He had multiple drawbacks to his super-speed if I remember correctly.
@@edcaous Wally was the kind of character I always liked to try to get away with in RPGs if the GM would let me. Basically someone who was massively overpowered to it. Insane degree, but he also had equally debilitating flaws at times.
(Most twisted when I ever came up with was a half goblin half elf named Vaaj. He had a special magic bean that would allow him to take up to 20 actions in one round. However, they also drove him insane so he was as likely to attack friend as foe, as well as foliage figments of his imagination and his own foot.)
Mega mind is a a masterpiece, that era of dream works was just golden. Puss and boots and the last wish reminded me of this era
I haven't watched their new stuff like puss. Is it any good?
@@thegamingprozone1941 yes very goood
@@thegamingprozone1941, even better than pussy itself