Biblical Discipleship verses Lordship salvation

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  • Опубликовано: 19 сен 2024

Комментарии • 37

  • @faithaziaka
    @faithaziaka Год назад +2

    So true a beautiful revelation as I am studying and hearing this video is that the disciples before Jesus did did aspire to be like him. Even they didn’t have a full understanding yet of who Jesus was and everything that make with that. They were still willing to give up what they knew formerly as Jews to mold themselves into disciples of Christ. Was is so deep is that they thought they were following him to become like him but as we continue to look to Christ for deeper understanding of himself and as we aspire to be like him we run into this reality that Jesus doesn’t just want us to be like him but in him. A part of him this is so much deep and relational than any of the Hebrew rabbis at the time! I hope this brings Joy to someone’s heart

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  Год назад

      Thank you so much!!! I'm so glad that this video is a blessing to you. I made several other videos on this topic that you might enjoy. Together, they'll be about 1/2 hour. And then next month or so, another video will come out about discipleship. This is the play list. If you haven't subscribed, you might want to subscribe and ring the bell button, so you won't miss any of these videos. :-)
      ruclips.net/video/zaob40oF57U/видео.html

  • @bernardjoymaynopas2275
    @bernardjoymaynopas2275 2 года назад +2

    I really learn lot of things here.

  • @ConqueringSpiritwithK
    @ConqueringSpiritwithK 10 месяцев назад +2

    New and blessed to here for the first time. Great teaching! Yes salvation is a gift and we are saved by God’s grace. New subscriber ✅
    God bless you richly, always

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  10 месяцев назад

      Thank you so much! Yes, we're totally saved by grace... We can never boast about it. And welcome to my RUclips family!

  • @krisjustin3884
    @krisjustin3884 2 года назад +1

    This video really shows us what dividing the word of truth is! I found the answers to comments and questions here very useful and interesting as well.

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  2 года назад +1

      That's wonderful. This is one of the first videos I made, because it probably is one of the most confusing topics in churches.

  • @carolgoering6585
    @carolgoering6585 3 года назад +2

    Very good!

  • @EmeraldLeafVids
    @EmeraldLeafVids 3 года назад +4

    Some thoughts for those who enjoy open discussion:
    I understand and agree with this fellow's main point, however, on a side issue I think his observation of Luke 6:40 is in need of a revisit. The conclusion should be that this is a journey, a process which usually doesn't happen in one moment, and I believe we even see that in Luke 6:40 (the very verse this fellow sited). Notice, "the disciple is not above his master..." (Greek word for disciple here is 'mathetes' - a learner, a pupil), and then the verse goes on to say, "...but everyone that is perfect... (Greek: katartizo - to complete, mend, equip, make one what he ought to be, prepare, thoroughly complete)... shall be as his master".
    Coupling what we know elsewhere in scripture on the subject with what we can observe from this passage, we should conclude that there's a process involved, that a disciple IS indeed a pupil progressing toward an end goal of being like his master/teacher.
    What I don't pretend to know is, at what point do we know that we've reached that status of a disciple, or complete disciple, or whether there's multiple levels of discipleship (?). It quickly becomes very difficult subject to comprehend and answer the questions to follow. A verse like Luke 14:33 could be taken as an end point of sorts, but then it starts to unwind a long line of honest questions. How does one know when they've forsaken all, or is that even possible for us as humans, what is the 'all' that's being asked to forsake, etc, etc. Those are sincere questions that I think most any of us would then be asking at that point in such a study, especially since scripture doesn't clearly define it anywhere I can think of off hand. I can only assume that as long as we're progressing continually toward the target expressed in the epistles, which is conforming to Christ's image, then I don't see where we can go wrong. But any person marching about proclaiming their 'discipleship' status would naturally be suspect or not be taken very seriously by many. I think we should be humble and careful with such territory as that; but to reach toward and desire the road or journey of discipleship, most certainly.

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  3 года назад +2

      Wow, what a good substantive reply. I love it. Yes, the disciples were far from perfect. As a matter of fact, as you know they had lots of problems and the oldest disciple Peter was strongly rebuked by Jesus in Matt. 16 in Ceasarea Philippi. Then he denied Jesus.... And even in Galatians Paul had to reprove Peter in front of all. No, they weren't perfect, but to become a disciple or talmid, they had to forsake all and follow Him, in order to become like Him. Of course the becoming like Jesus was a process, that's why they had to spend that much time with Jesus. And that end goal would be realized at the point that they will be with Jesus in heaven....
      So, the main point to take away is that there is a HUGE distinction between salvation and discipleship.... Salvation is by grace through faith... It's a free gift and it's not a process. It's all about what Jesus did on the cross for us. Not what we can do.
      Now, when I was their age, I lived in Holland.... I decided that I wanted to study at Florida Bible College and had to forsake all and fly to study there.... and then I graduated... So, I don't take the passage where It says that they had to forsake all as meaning that they had to be without sin... I have never met a person that doesn't sin anymore.... But more in the sense of forsake their jobs, their families, communities, their own desire and have a passionate desire to become just like Jesus... And the Galilean disciples did that... The one from Judah.... I don't know. He ended up betraying Jesus....
      But Jesus did tell people, who wanted to "follow Him" that that was what He required... and every rabbi during that time would have required something similar.
      God bless you. Thank you so much for your wonderful comment....

    • @EmeraldLeafVids
      @EmeraldLeafVids 3 года назад

      @@TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel Thank you, yes, I agree that salvation is a completely separate issue and I was only addressing the discipleship issue. And I appreciate all that you said; but I guess we have to ask, has anyone ever in the strictest sense, inward thought and desire or outward sacrifice and forsaking, left ALL behind (and what is the list of 'all?'). By the way, I'm not asking those specifics for you to answer but only for discussion sake, because I don't know that any of us have a confident, concrete and full answer for all of that. Many of us, just as you shared a small part of your story, have had moments where we made the hard choice to sacrifice for learning, growing and righteousness, even sharing the Gospel, service, or so on. These are however, but moments. It's a big subject, and we lack a clear list or description in scripture, but it makes for interesting discussion, sharing insights and ideas that we can meditate on from that which we can observe and DO have in scripture. Thanks again for the reply

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  3 года назад

      @@EmeraldLeafVids Good question!!! The best example that I can think of someone, who forsook all was the Apostle Paul in Philippians 3:7,8... Again, I'm not equating "forsaking all" with living a perfect sinless life. But Paul gives a good definition here. Also remember that no rabbi would accept anything less from his disciples during the time of Christ. Christ wasn't the only rabbi.... It was a system very specific to the Nation of Israel at that time, specifically in Galilee. You read about it some in the Book of Acts, but then you don't read about it anymore.... It's not that the system didn't exist. It did, but gentiles, especially Greeks wouldn't have understood the concept of discipleship. That's why you see it, but in other words.... I Cor. 11:1 Paul tells the whole church in Corinth to imitate him. The same with the Philippians in Philippians 4:9. That's all discipleship.... but using Greek terminology.... I.e. Paul made it clear.... BTW, the Old Testament or Tanaqh also has it. Moses/Joshua, Elijah/Elisha, etc.... Remember a disciple is a follower, who forsakes all to become just like the person that they are following.... The closest in our western culture that I can think of is an apprentice.... But again as you said, it has nothing to do with salvation.... I got another video on that.... The biggest question:
      ruclips.net/video/AMRupT7shmk/видео.html
      BTW, did you go to FBC?

  • @jamesjedidiahzgambo1428
    @jamesjedidiahzgambo1428 2 года назад +1

    What's an awesome video!!

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  2 года назад

      You are so kind. I'm so glad you liked it. Feel free to pass them on to the folks that you are discipling or training. This way they can do this too. (Of course they would have to know English!)

  • @poetry_is_in_nature1955
    @poetry_is_in_nature1955 3 года назад +1

    Thank you for sharing 😊❤🙏

  • @Mark65845
    @Mark65845 3 года назад

    Amen

  • @revolutionofordinaries
    @revolutionofordinaries 3 года назад +2

    You would really enjoy the work of Bill Hull. He is on RUclips and has written more books on discipleship than probably anyone alive.

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  3 года назад

      I had never heard about him. I would like to read them. Does he dive much into the Hebrew culture and history? Or is he more about how to disciple people these days? Or both?

    • @pastor-josh
      @pastor-josh 3 года назад

      @@TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel I've only read "The Complete Book of Discipleship: On Being and Making Followers of Christ" but my sense is that he doesn't reference Hebrew culture much and is much more focused on practical application today.

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  3 года назад +2

      @@pastor-josh Thank you so much. Yes, I was just thinking about that today.... We read stuff about the original culture and understand it and then we need to figure out how to actually apply that within our own cultural situation.... But the original background gives us the insight of what we need to shoot for.... BTW, I would love to talk with you some time. I saw someone do something with a Bible software on RUclips and thought you'd be the person to talk with when it comes to the best software research tools....

    • @pastor-josh
      @pastor-josh 3 года назад

      @@TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel I think you are right. I've never wondered too deeply about the cultural aspect of discipleship but you've inspired my curiosity on the subject.
      I'm not THE person to talk to about Bible software, but I do know a little on the subject and would be glad to chat. You can email me at josh.p.gribble@gmail.com and I'd be glad to talk by email or setup a Zoom call or whatever works well with you.

  • @erfelgamazig
    @erfelgamazig 2 года назад +1

    This is a very good video! I'm having trouble hearing all of it though.

  • @JonStallings
    @JonStallings 3 года назад +1

    Always learning so much from your videos. Way we have the strength to forsake all to be like Christ

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  3 года назад +1

      Hi, Jon, I'm so glad. Actually this is one of my favourite videos. It's one the biggest things I have learned. I'm actually surprised that this video didn't totally go viral. :-)
      I might do another very similar one. I saw it the other day, I think it can be improved a bit. If you have suggestions, I would love to hear them!

  • @angelolawrence9989
    @angelolawrence9989 2 года назад

    Easy believism is not biblical. Lordship salvation is all about a believer submitting his life to Jesus and bearing fruit. You need to bear fruit in order to be saved. That is why it is said Faith without works is dead. If you say u are saved by faith but if u do not have works then ur faith is of no value. Here works means selfless love but the other work which we are not saved by is selfish love. Selfish love kinda works is you do good in-order to gain merit for your personal benefit. But what God instructs us is if you have faith in Jesus then do good works which is selfless love. Through your life you demonstrate the character of God whom you have faith in . Because God is love you must have love in your life and that love is called good works or selfless love.

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  2 года назад +1

      First of all, Angelo, thank you for your response. I can see you put quite a bit into this. So, I want to give you a response.
      Yes, Easy Believism is not a Biblical Term.... But neither is Lordship Salvation. You don't need to bear fruit to be saved. That's nowhere in the Scriptures. Remember John 6:47: Verily, verily, I say unto you: "He who believes on Me has eternal life." Notice the word it uses is: "Believe" which is in the Greek: PISTEUO, which means to trust in, to depend upon, to rely upon. So, if you trust in Jesus Christ you have eternal life. That's actually not easy believism, because Jesus paid for it with a horrible death on the cross and worse was separated from the Father. So, you place your trust in Him and not in what you can do.
      You're quoting James 2. Thank you for that. I might make a video on that Passage. The Passage is talking about your testimony before others. Dead can be translated to useless. Then also, the two examples used were Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son Isaac and Rahab the prostitute. Is that what you are talking about? Should I quit being a missionary and become a prostitute to be saved?
      I'm all for selfless love, but that's not given as a requirement to be saved. That's in reality the Shema. Watch my video on that.
      Now look at Romans 4:5 He that worketh not, but believeth in Him, Who justifies the ungodly. His faith is counted for righteousness. There is no contradiction between James 2 and Romans 4. Only that both Chapters are talking about two totally different topics. James 2 is talking about being a testimony to others. See the first 13 verses of the Chapter.
      A good cross reference to this is found in I Sam. 16:9
      Please, watch the video on being sure of going to heaven.

    • @angelolawrence9989
      @angelolawrence9989 2 года назад

      @@TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel thank you for the reply. I am still not clear on the difference between easy belivism and what you suggest, could you please clearly distinguish the difference. About Rahab and Abraham what they did was not for themselves but selfless and they showed the fruit of their faith. That fruit is love. If James 2 is about our testimony then does James 2:14 mean, if we are not being a testimony to others our faith is dead ?? If so, our faith is dependent on our testimony to others isn’t it ?? Ultimately if we do not have a testimony to others then because our faith is dead we loose our salvation.
      Here the term you use as our testimony to others is what I mean as selfless love. We become a testimony to others only when we project the nature of God (Selfless love) through our lives. Having selfless love is not through human effort but through the Holy Spirit. That’s what is called bearing fruit. This is what is mentioned in Matthew7:19 if you do not bear fruit (Selfless love) then you will be thrown to eternal damnation.
      When you say we are not saved by good works it means selfish love. This is what the Pharisees did. They did good works for their personal benefit . They thought the more good works they did a better place they would get. It’s not selfish love which shows Gods nature through us. This is what it means to say we are not saved by good works.
      But when it comes to salvation we must do good works (selfless love) that’s why it says our faith is useless if we don’t show the God (God=selfless love) we have faith in through our lives. Matthew 7:22-23 and Matthew 25:41-43

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  2 года назад +2

      @@angelolawrence9989 Easy believism doesn't exist in the Bible. That term is not there.
      Jesus Christ did it all on the cross for us. We can not add to it, nor subtract from it.
      Read John 3:16, but especially read verse 14,15 That describes real well what it means to trust Christ as Saviour. By the way, there are over 100 verses which tells us that by trusting Christ (PISTEUO) as Savior we have eternal life. Many Passages also clear spell out that it's NOT of works. As a matter of fact, that works have nothing to do with it. They don't specify the motives, whether of love or not. That's important, but it has nothing to do with going to heaven.
      Think to yourself. Do you sin? Then that is not of love. Paul sinned. Read Romans 7.
      You're basically saying that you get to heaven by the Shema.... See my video on that. Now that does sum up the Law and Prophets. And It is very important, but you don't get to be saved that way. And if you trust in your own motives, (which is by the way very unclear, read Isa. 17:5-9), you will not go to heaven. You don't want to be like the Arara tree, but trust in the Lord. Only in Him... Not in your own works or motives.
      Pharisees is another issue. Which of the seven are you talking about? Watch the video on the Pharisees. Remember Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees AFTER he finished his third missionary journey.
      Faith is useless for other people. That's what James 2 is all about. If you see these videos and then you notice that I'm in some overt sin, you will judge me by my works, not by my faith, because you can't see my faith. So, it's the testimony. Remember there are no contradictions in the Bible. So, Romans 4:5 would not be able to contradict this Passage. And there are again about 100 other Passages. John 3:16, 3:18, 5:24, 6:47, Rom. 4:5, Rom. 5:1, Eph 2:8,9, Titus 3:5, Rom. 11:6, etc, etc.... Those are just on the top of my head.

    • @angelolawrence9989
      @angelolawrence9989 2 года назад

      @@TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel Thanks again for the detailed answer. Please tell me if I believe in Jesus Christ as my savior with my whole heart but I continue to sin then will I got to heaven ?

    • @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel
      @TheKeesBoerMinistryChannel  2 года назад +1

      @@angelolawrence9989 The Greek word for believe is PISTEUO, which means to rely upon to trust in or depend upon. So, if you trust in Jesus as your Saviour, you'll have eternal life. Put your full trust in Him. At that moment, the Holy Spirit with move inside of you. God will become your Father and if continue in habitual sins, you will be disciplined by God, but you won't lose your salvation. You might check the Book of Corinthians for examples there. But Paul wrote them. I'm sure God disciplined them and in the next Book, things had improved drastically. But God will be your Father and He will deal with you as a good Father. You'll get disciplined. But you won't lose your salvation. That's by grace and not by your life. That's all based on God's work on the cross.
      And by the way, if you watch this video, you'll never can call that easy believism. Because you'll know that it wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination.
      ruclips.net/video/doTLgQ7WzJM/видео.html