Will Patrick Mahomes surpass Tom Brady as the GOAT? | NFL | FIRST THINGS FIRST
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 окт 2023
- Nick Wright, Chris Broussard, Kevin Wildes and Coach Eric Mangini weigh in on Travis Kelce's comment on Patrick Mahomes becoming the GOAT over Tom Brady. Nick makes the case for Mahomes eventually surpassing Brady.
#FirstThingsFirst #NFL #TomBrady
SUBSCRIBE to get the latest from First Things First: foxs.pt/SubscribeFIRSTTHINGSFIRST
The all-new FOX Sports App, built for the modern sports fan: tinyurl.com/y4uouolb
►Watch the latest content from First Things First: foxs.pt/LatestOnFIRSTTHINGSFIRST
▶ The Carton Show's RUclips channel: sprtspod.fox/SubscribeCartonShow
▶ The Herd with Colin Cowherd’s RUclips channel: foxs.pt/SubscribeTHEHERD
► UNDISPUTED’s RUclips channel: foxs.pt/SubscribeUNDISPUTED
► Speak's RUclips channel: sprtspod.fox/SUBSCRIBEtoSpeak
► The Skip Bayless Show RUclips channel: sprtspod.fox/SUBSCRIBESkipShow
► What's Wright? with Nick Wright RUclips channel: sprtspod.fox/whatswright/youtube
See more from First Things First: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTFoxSports
Like First Things First on Facebook: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTFacebook
Follow First Things First on Twitter: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTTwitter
Follow First Things First on Instagram: foxs.pt/FIRSTTHINGSFIRSTInstagram
Follow Nick Wright on Twitter: foxs.pt/NickWrightTwitter
Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: / chris_broussard
Follow Kevin Wildes on Twitter: foxs.pt/KevinWildesTwitter
About First Things First:
Nick Wright, Chris Broussard, and Kevin Wildes team up on First Things First. The trio offers their take on a bevy of sports stories alongside special guests from across the sports world.
Will Patrick Mahomes surpass Tom Brady as the GOAT? | NFL | FIRST THINGS FIRST
• Will Patrick Mahomes s...
First Things First
/ firstthingsfirst 
Спорт
![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch The Joel Klatt Show now: bit.ly/JoelKlattShow
@FirstThingsFirst Brady beat him in the superbowl so he can’t get him back
Nick: "I think the Steve Young model is appropriate here" Also Nick: "concussions shortened Young's career." These talking heads love to crunch numbers, but the NFL isn't played by accountants. Everybody thought Tiger would catch Nicklaus, until they didn't. The guy who HAS 7 rings has an incalculable (literally) advantage over the guy with 2.
Also I saw the other segment yes the cowboys were better with rush. No I’m not out my mind brou you played basketball you can relate to this.I equate it to a pick up game where our best player leaves and we replace him with a nobody everyone picks their game up and becomes lazer focused.Instead of thinking you can get away with anything and we still win
Let’s revisit this conversation in 12 yrs… trust me, what looks like a career of superbowls can change in a heartbeat, ask Marino and Rodgers.
Mahomes blew by those two guys years ago😂
Those guys would need to ask Mahomes what winning 2 is like since they don’t even have that many combined. And he’s probably still in the earlier stages of his career
Russell Wilson ask him lol 😂
@@Chigz10well Pat is having the career Aaron was supposed to have.
Yeah I’ll be sure to bookmark this comment and hit you up in 2036
Wildes got Nick with the QB wins at the end 😂
Bro he set that up perfectly in the end ! 😅😅😅
Brady Proved a lot with his stint in Tampa. He was able to put up comparable numbers to Mahomes in his era when he was 40+
He put up better numbers in his 2021 season than Mahomes did last season. Just saying.
He went to a ready made team with everything.
@@DJJE928 Still made the team a Super Bowl Championship team... Jus sayin.
@@DJJE928 A "ready made" team that hadn't won a playoff game in almost 2 decades, let alone sniffed the playoffs in 13 years. Everybody was laughing at Brady for choosing the Bucs until they started winning, then the narrative became "OMG he joined a stacked team!!!" Haters will find a way to discount everything if it suits them
@erikanderson2421 Stop kid....😅Mahomes literally set the NFL Record for offensive yards in a season last year. He also had more total TDs and a better QB Rating then Brady did in 2021.
I have no clue why you Brady fanboys insist on making stuff up😅
Everyone is so quick to forget about Brady because they didn't like him when he was winning so much and wanted him to just go away. After having a small period of time where everyone acknowledged his greatness, everyone proceeded to turn back around and say that what Tom did wasn't all that special and that we should forget about him in favor of the new guy.
I love Nick's Steve Young-Mahomes comp. Young would have been amazing today, a deadly accurate scrambler who wasn't afraid to take shots to throw dots. Man was HOF and didn't start till 30!
Me too; injuries ended Young's career early. Know who doesn't suffer that threat? Brady. P.S., Young is one of my favorite QBs ever.
Steve Young played when defensive players can hit QBs. Late hits. Hits to knees. Head shots. Fraud Brady wouldn't last a season in those days
Brady came back down 28-3 without Gronk, lmao. He was throwing to Edelman, Hogan, Bennet, and White as his main receivers. Oh, and this was “only” for his 5th ring out of 7. Mahomes is still at 2.
That’s wild. We’re already taking toms career for granted
Ah yes - it was definitely solely and only Brady that made the comeback. I forgot Tom Brady also played defense! Let’s ignore the fact that the falcons stopped running the ball, Matt Ryan turning into a pumpkin, poor coaching from Atlanta, the help from the officials… yeah it was Brady who was solely responsible for that comeback. It’s so annoying how much credit Tom gets for his team winning the game for him.
lets not forget the lucky third down pass that edelman caught which should have been picked off
@@alexdeluca8371How was it lucky? Edelman's job was to catch the ball, plus they would've gone for it on 4th too.😂
Having more rings, does not make one better than another. Otherwise we have to say Terry Bradshaw was better than Peyton, Manning and Eli Manning after all Peyton, Manning and Eli Manning both only had two rings each and Terry Bradshaw had four. It’s not a diss at Terry Bradshaw he’s just not in the same league as the two Manning brothers or Drew Brees, or other legendary quarterbacks like Joe Montana.
The problem with these discussions is that they put everything on the 1 player without consdering the supporting cast. For Mahomes to catch Brady,the Chiefs are going to have to consistently replace players that are the same level or better. How many Kelce level players are out there or how long is Andy Reid going to keep going .....
That's right. Brady's career was magical and so uncommon that people have lost a sense of reality when comparing him with others. Yes, it's possible for Mahomes. But for Mahomes to achieve all the things Brady achieved and surpass him in winning is unlikely. There are just a million things that could go wrong. Thus, this debate is premature until Mahomes has played much longer or won close to as many Super Bowls.
People don’t understand how hard it is to be consistent as an organization and have complimentary football which Brady did. There is a reason we have never seen this before him. Man grows into HOF QB and has a consistent franchise and team with the right parts
Yea Kelce is extremely valuable, but I don’t think he’s absolutely necessary for the success. You hit right on the money with Reid tho. If he leaves, I’m going to be a very sad chiefs fan again
Wanna know the crazy thing. Brady had maybe 2 legitimate threats his entire career. Moss and Gronk. The other guys became great because of Tom.
Patrick has already had Tyreek and Travis.
Yes. And I think people underrate his entire team. Nick and many others say Mahomes has had a negative defense most of his career and that's untrue. They have mostly been average to above average when you combine points given up and yardage. His scoring defense, arguably the most important stat, has been top half except his first year. Also your reading defense for offense because Mahomes has had better weapons longer and a great offensive minded coach with a great defensive coordinator. Teams matter. Its not just Mahomes . Chiefs made the playoffs with Alex Smith before
Let’s remember in this discussion Brady beat him both times they faced off in the post season as well. Could be the tie breaker in all this
Both losses weren't really his fault tho. The AFC Championship game is solely on Dee Ford 🙄 and he had no o-line in the super bowl
@@scratchpennythen Eli the Goat going off your logic. Brady never beat him when it mattered most
@@KevonDaDon But Eli only won twice, so even that debate doesn't hold up. Brady was in the playoffs for 20-plus seasons and went to the Superbowl 10 times, winning 7. Brady beating Mahomes in those games helps him if a tiebreaker is needed. Right now, Mahomes has to win a lot more for this to even be a real debate. If anyone can do it, it's Mahomes, but a 1000 things could go wrong where it doesn't happen.
@@scratchpenny have to agree with this mindset. These victories aren't even in Tom's prime as well. The Superbowl victory was absolute dominance over the Chiefs as well. Tom's greatest strength was to always elevate those around him. He definitely would even inspire confidence in the defenses he played with. Tom knows it is a team sport, so does Patrick, but this really shouldn't even be a real discussion until Pat has 15+ years into the league and 5+ Superbowl rings and still has a few years left of elite play.
@@kabloosh699toms greatest strength was clutch play and having a top tier defense.
Mahomes won 2 without that.
Brady has never won ONE without a top defense.
The issue is that comparisons are impossible in the NFL
Mahomes has been in a pass heavy offense his whole career
and has been playing in an era where 4000 yd seasons are common
A good chunk of Brady’s career 4000 yd was elite and Belicheck focused on defense and running the ball. The only pass heavy seasons you can compare to Mahomes are his time in Tampa and a few seasons in New England Like 2007.
There is also a major issue with accolades like MVP because it is completely subjective!
In baseball they have stats to compare purely individual performance and compare over different seasons like wRC+ but the NFL doesn’t have that. If Brady had Andy Reid as a head coach he would’ve had worse defenses and better offenses and therefore more stats. If Mahomes had Belicheck he might win the same amount but Belicheck would focus on defense and Mahomes would have less stats.
Brady had also never lost to Mahomes in the playoffs
your final argument is funny and lame. and it’s the predictable final excuse from a salty Pats fan
Yeah now I'm going to unpause the video and see if anyone mentions rules changes. There have been a ton of rules changes favoring QBs over the years, with most of them coming before Mahomes entered the NFL.
by this logic then, Brady didn’t contribute to his first 3 rings as much as Mahomes has contributed to his 2.
I rate MVP and other voting-based accolades at 0 in terms of evaluating the GOAT. Literally ZFG.
@@FoolyAndCoolymahomes couldn't beat Brady when it matters, he's gotta win 8 now, end of story, good luck with that
This is silly - if you projected out Big Ben or Russell Wilson they should have had 10 each 🤣🤣
This.
that's why he didn't project out and instead showed tops first 13 years to Mahomes currently to show that he's not far off from eclipsing everything Tom did in 13 years is much less time
@@medmuse_ But even that argument is faulty because of the changes to the game. QBs have an easier pathway to better stats than when Brady started. Just like Brady had an easier path than guys like Marino, Elway, Young, and Montana. It's tough to compare eras. Like he said, Mahomes will only pull this off if he wins as much as Brady. And that will be hard to do, even if his numbers surpass everyone.
Either of those guys won MVPs and lead the league in passing while carrying their teams who played no defense like Mahomes.
@@medmuse_ he showed false stats.
It was once a given Woods would eclipse Nicklaus in Majors. Ended up never happening.
LOL, exactly! I made this point twice in this thread and then saw your post. To quote a movie, "there's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip."
And still woods is the goat in golf
@@TheRockisaBondMovieno he isn't.
@@TheRockisaBondMovie Close, but his career never entirely surpassed Nicklaus in the end. It's his own fault, though. He let the personal issues and off-the-green stuff affect his performance. But he did revolutionize the sport.
I’ll ask u who is better? That isn’t a discussion
Running is Patrick greatest strength is crazy. Never heard that one before. Lol
Coach Mangina will proudly don that rainbow wig as long as he keeps playing Nick’s foil 🤡
You don’t have to hear it you can see it
I also think people assume Travis is going to be there for Patrick entire career
^This. Brady got “lucky” in a sense by getting Gronk in the second half of his career. Once Kelce gets old and retires, who will be Mahomes’ right-hand guy?
@@LASAGNA_LARRY I've never seen a guy get open as consistently as Kelce. It's kind of weird. Like, hey defenses, he's good. Cover him. Nope!
@@bigdongbob838 The key to Kelce is almost every route he runs is an option route for him. They allow him to read the defense and make it up as he goes. That's why he's alway so wide open. Just finds the gaps in defenses.
@@michaelfetter4541bingo.
Same thing for coach Reid. Even great QBs struggle with bad coaching, and Reid is 65. Who's gonna coach Mahomes 10 years from now and how Mahomes will look without Kelce and Reid is a legitimate question I have no answer for.
But we saw what Brady could do without Belichick or without Gronk.
Brady had a great TE for awhile but only have an all pro WR once. When he did he SMASHED every offensive record you could break.
Do you remember wes welker???? 5 straight seasons with 100 receptions
yeah until mahomes did it better last year with the most total yards gained by a single player in nfl history
@@ejschiller7787 But not as efficient (highest QBR in NFL history), and it's not really comparable anyway. The era Brady played in 2007 was much different from an NFL rules and playstyle standpoint. It's common for even mediocre starters to throw for over 4,000 yards and 30 TDs these days.
@@scratchpennyMahomes has the highest QBR in NFL history at 105.3 what is you talking about buddy when the hate don’t work they start telling lies 🤦🏾♂️🤣
@@KevonDaDon That's a passer rating. Not QBR. Check again.
Most likely no. That Bucs vs chiefs Super Bowl is a huge factor and it wasn’t even Mahomes fault. But instead of it being 2 to 6 (3 to 6 rings rn) it made it 1-7 rings. Winning is going to be the deciding factor. If Mahomes can make it a legit argument than it would feel like he had a successful career (given the expectations he had after his first two seasons)
It definitely was Mahomes’ fault, he didn’t help his line out at all. He kept running out of the pocket as soon as the ball was snapped, didn’t look for any easy reads, only wanted deep, chunk plays. He played right into the defense’s hands. Was his O-Line shaky? Yes, 100%. Were they bad? No. It’s on Mahomes to be better in the pocket and not rely so heavily on his mobility.
@@KiLlACaMrOn94 ur spot on. if you want to look at bad o-line performance, rewatch the bengals vs titans 2021 divisional, the rams v bengals SB, or the afccg last year vs KC. if we had a good o-line burrow would be a 2x SB champ.
@@KiLlACaMrOn94 that O-Line was abysmal what do you mean. Mahomes didn't help sure, but saying the Oline wasn't bad is laughable
The majority of sports fans are dumb, and therefore use the simplest and most basic arguments because they are incapable of articulating context. Hence why "6-0 in the finals" works like a charm for most simpletons when comparing Jordan to Lebron.
The idea that "Mahomes lost to Brady" in the playoffs twice so he can't ever be the goat is the type of argument you make when your IQ is single digits. Luckily for these people, most people's IQ are single digits.
So the giants super bowls weren’t Brady’s fault either. Also Brady woman Super Bowl with only 3 less pressures then Mahomes had vs bucks. Against the Seahawks so this debate is over unless Mahomes gets 7 cause he’ll have better stats cause of the era
making the conference finals in 2 of 3 years over a span of 20 years is wild and making the super bowl every 2 years is just insane
Mahomes has HOSTED an NFL record 5 consecutive AFCCG'S, every year he's been a starter so far. He's been to the SB 3 of those 5 years as well.
In his first year as a starter, Mahomes won MVP and took Brady to OT before the rules were changed so both offenses get a chance to score. Brady was getting carried his first year. In the SB, most of the Chiefs offensive linemen were hurt. And Mahomes doesn’t have cheating scandals clouding his resume.
@@SonicCollectionsPS2Noises
"Outbested"???
@@jenniferaceste8823Yes
@@PassengerPrincess64 Yes, no one is really arguing against the idea that Mahomes' career start has been even better than Brady's. But the real argument against Mahomes surpassing Brady is the longevity it will take in terms of injuries, team talent, good coaching, performance as he gets older, drive, and winning. Mahomes is the only QB in the league that even has a chance, but the odds are not in his favor when you consider how many things will need to go right.
Coach made such a good point that u cant refute that, I did not see that coming lol it is so true, even with the game evolving Brady still was good even older
You can definitely refute it, he said Mahomes greatest strength is his mobility so I don’t know what he’s watching
@@Chigz10Are you blind? Mahomes can't read a defense nearly at all well as Tom and most of his great plays are literally whike escaping from the pocket so heah, coach is right.
@@israelp348 He's also in his 6th year as a starter. Brady got better at reading defenses as he went. Mahomes is just entering his prime. Brady never won with a subpar defense. Mahomes has. Coach assumes Mahomes won't evolve as a player, yet he already has.
@craigcampbell8560 but he has always had an amazing offense. Best WR in the NFL and arguably the best TE of all time. Both had their advantages
@@gokuswanson2037 Brady had Gronk and Randy Moss. Last year Mahomes loses the best WR in the NFL and got BETTER.
Nick just killed himself with what he said, regarding the MJ vs Lebron debate
Lmao i love how Wildes is always trynna catch Nick out with his segments 😂
coach is trippin. Mahomes is 28, he’s got at least 5-6 years of running around just like he does now before he even starts to slow down, if he stays healthy of course. he’s already a monster in the pocket so he can only get better
He's just being realistic. Mahomes CAN do it, but it's not likely. Brady achieved so much that people now think this is a realistic standard. But Brady played 23 seasons of high-level QB play in the NFL, where he barely got hurt, took massive pay cuts for the team, made good decisions his entire career, took advantage of all his opportunities, made the playoffs virtually every year, had a great defensive coach, and had some of the best intangibles and leadership skills we've ever seen. It's a tall order. A 1000s things can go wrong. We've seen it with other "great" QBs in the past.
The only person who dominated mahomes in the playoffs has been Tom Brady and honestly that's where I feel like a lot of people are gonna make and break the case, but realistically we got to see two all time greats that are gonna define two separate eras of football play head to head in the sports biggest game so we all won in that regard.
Brady has cheating scandals like deflate gate and filming other teams’ practices clouding his resume. Mahomes doesn’t. Also Mahomes was MVP and in his first year as a starter the first time he played Brady in the playoffs and still took him to OT before the rule change. Also, no one says Eli Manning is better than Brady even though he beat him twice in the SB
@@PassengerPrincess64 Mahomes will have to win as much or nearly as much for this to be a real debate. That's what defines QB greatness rather than stats or individual awards. If it didn't, everybody would have considered Peyton Manning the greatest, but many never really did because he wasn't as successful in the postseason as Brady or Montana. And QB stats are somewhat inflated from era to era because of rule changes, so that won't be the most essential factor. It used to be uncommon for a QB to throw for 30 TDs in a season, but now it happens yearly with multiple guys. And while Mahomes is just about the only QB playing right now who could pass Brady, the odds of him lasting as long as Brady and winning as much are not in his favor. 1000s things can go wrong in that quest, including team talent issues, coaching issues, injury, contract limitations, lack of adjustment as he gets older, burnout, etc. Thus, the debate is premature.
Let’s not act like Brady was the reason he won both those games
@@KevonDaDon For sure, but without him, they wouldn't have even been in the position to win those games. One of Brady's underrated aspects is his intangibles and decision-making, both on and off the field. That's showing even more with how bad Belichick is without him. Mahomes can surpass him, but I wouldn't bet on it because of everything that can go wrong in an NFL QB career. He's got to play a lot longer and win a lot more for this to even be a real debate.
To say he dominated Mahomes in anything is a crazy statement… you ppl keep skipping over the facts that Brady would of been even worst with that OL, AT THAT AGE, you clowns are speaking as if yr 3 Tom was anything close to Yr 3 Mahomes. Tom’s defense dominated as they always do in most of his playoff runs… y’all love believing Tom did everything when that’s never been the case…
Dude, Mahomes being 100% on Conference Championship appearances is nuts.
Bailed out last year by Damar Hamlin
@@tylers9476 YUP‼️‼️
@@tylers9476 would they have lost to anyone else else have they been the 2 seed?
@@andynorck2389 That wasn't your point in the original post
@@tylers9476 it is, it’s about Conference Championship appearances, I didn’t mentioned anything about KC hosting it.
Brady's hard work and training routine made the complex game of football look easy however Mahomes literally changed the way the game is played. Generational talented and heart's of lions.
If Mahomes plays until he’s 45, we also have to look at his team. It his highly unlikely Kelce will be there even when Mahomes is 35, so who will be his new #1 target? Brady actually got pretty “lucky” by having Gronk in the second half of his career. Mahomes will pretty much need another legendary player to join him in order to keep his production elite.
@@Nathan34370his whole career was luck wtf
Which is why this conversation is almost impossible. The ability for Chiefs draft picks, to develop into superstars for example, Julian Edelman, and Gronk is key. Belichick hated paying the huge contracts we see all the time now cause he could coach rookies in the right direction, with the goat throwing to them. The Chiefs just felt it with Tyreek. Low pick, that became the best receiver in the league, and chased the bag. We need a receiver to step up like that while we still have Kelce.
@@TheRockisaBondMovie His whole career was taking advantage of opportunities. Very few people in American history have taken advantage of their opportunities as well as Brady. He made his own luck in that way.
As dedicated to the game as Mahomes is, he'll develop into the pocket passer needed.
that's not the point though. no one says he's not a good pocket passer.. the point is that his stats and overall performance is so great up to this point in part because he can turn broken plays into touchdowns... when he loses that ability, what was once a touchdown will be a play where he has to throw the ball at a runningback's ankles to avoid a sack and live to fight another day... and his stats and team's performance will reflect that.
What is going to be tough to overcome is that mahomes is 0-2 vs Brady in the playoffs
That doesn’t matter. Micheal Jordan never beat Larry bird and magic Johnson when he was about to retire so that doesn’t matter. Also context wise the AFC championship shoudnt even went to OT. Some of the call were outrageous and the Super Bowl game Mahommes was playing with practice squad O line
Exactly
I guarantee you, if Mahomes is what we think he’s gonna be 10 years from now no one’s gonna even mention Brady
What happened to Brady at the end? He got blown out by the 49ers, the cowboys, and the Chiefs. And it happened at home.
EVERY GAME CALLS ARE OUTRAGEOUS EVEN MENTIONING THAT MEANS YOU DONT KNOW THE NFL PERIOD@@Messigoat1033
I love that we are arguing might do vs did.
i love coach manginis face when nick talks trash about tom 😂😂
I hope Mahomes ends up being the GOAT. As a packer fan we always thought Rodgers would be able to do it, but he always fell short in the playoffs (every playoff loss he had one half where he played awfully). I wanted Rodgers to be the GOAT because he made throws that nobody in the world could make off of insane throwing platforms in incredibly tight windows. Well that's what Mahomes is now. It's a plus that Mahomes seems to be much more humble than Rodgers, too
I’ve seen many QBs make the throws that Mahomes AND Rodgers made, they just weren’t winners most of the time.
If you go back and look at Stafford he made ALL the throws and got little credit until he won.
@Nathan34370 If you think he played awful in that game you know nothing about football…
@@KCCheezHe played awful, because that was in his boomstick days. Where he relied heavily on athleticism in his WR corps to win, and that didn't come up because reid couldn't scheme them out of Cover 2 debility. So yes he made some miraculous highlight throws, that feel incomplete. Aaron Judge hits a 409 foot fly out at 122 mph, they aren't giving him a hr, he's 0-1. Same logic.
@@mistersunshine1330 Flawed analogy, because a hitter doesn’t rely on his teammates to determine if it is a hr or not. When dudes drop passes that hit them in the face… hardly the QBs fault. He was clearly the best player on the field that day. I would point you to the mIc’d up from that game where the Bucs players were in awe of Patrick. In the middle of winning a SB they were in awe of the losing QB! Think about that.
Also working against Mahomes in the future that worked for him up to this point-
The 4 drafts leading up to his draft produced 0 elite QBs who could serve as a roadblock while they were also on their rookie deals. The last few years has produced a ton of very good QBs, namely in the AFC, so he is going to have to go through a gauntlet in the postseason every year soon. Even at a relative discount also, his 5/5 Conference Championship Appearances were made up of years on a rookie contract. It's unrealistic to keep 100% up for sure - though *maybe* he can keep pace with Brady if he is truly great.
The Patriots went to 8 straight AFCCG, a record.
Coach made the best point that everyone seems to forget and I've been telling people for years now. mahomes is not going to have 23 years to do it yes he's slightly ahead because ov the way the game is played and qbs are protected but after his mobility goes away just 10-15% he's not going to anywhere near as dangerous he'll be lucky to have 15 years more likely 10-12
Well Pat is great from the pocket as well, and I believe he's talented and smart enough to understand as he gets older he needs to get even better in the pocket
Simply put, no.
Simply put, you're wrong. See my other comment. There isn't a debate.
@@knytrixI agree, it isn't a debate Tom is far superior in every way and Mahomes' chances are about as well as a lightning strike.
@@israelp348mahomes is going to have way better numbers if having a few more rings makes him that much better then I don’t see what you’re talking about
@@AndreasMarkey What if Mahomes' numbers drop drastically when Reid or Kelce retires? It's too early to get into the hypotheticals. His future status is not set in stone.
@@thesoundofsilence77 what you just said is also a hypothetical
On pace and achieving are two different things. If anyone can do it it’s Mahomes. But let’s pump the break on these talks and just enjoy the ride
Agreed. He's the only one with a chance, but the odds are against him. Brady has had a career where he took advantage of every opportunity, and everything went his way.
Thank you that's what I'm saying. Also to act like Montana, John, Peyton and other QBs don't exist is just disrespectful. Brady had to win 5 to move pat Montana, no one talked about projections
Agreed. These premature conversations are disrespectful to all parties in my opinion. Like you said, can't we just enjoy the ride for the time being?
Listen, Mahomes is off to an excellent start to his career. Every Chief's fan ought to enjoy this time. Its the NFL which stands for Not For Long. Granted Brady went to extreme measures to protect his body. He was the outliner in this game that's seen incredibly talented people come and go. Although, if Mahomes takes minimal injuries over the next decade and they can replace Kelce in the next 2 years and continue to develop talent anything is possible. If they kept winning SB's then they'll be lower in draft picks. A lot of things have to go right. Thats just my 2¢
Just enjoy the glory now Chief's Kingdom 👏
All great arguments and really valid, I'd additionally throw in the head-to-head argument we often don't get with the greats. I know they're 3:3, but Mahomes is 0:2 against Brady in key games (AFCCG and SB) - particularly the Conference Championship at Arrowhead was a must-win for Pat in that respect, he was in his prime and that entire Pats team already on the decline, Brady in his 40s
In last year's playoffs, we got a sneak preview of what a less mobile Patrick Mahomes might look like. Still pretty good.
And the Understatement Of The Year Award goes to^.😅
😂@@Nathan34370
@@Nathan34370better qbr and passer rating than Brady has ever had. 😂
@@Nathan34370 then you have to much hate for a human that doesn't know you my friend
@@Nathan34370 🤣😂🤣😂. So you don't know football at all. I'm sorry, I thought you had a modicum of understanding of the game.
Later casual.
That was a good point coach made about Mahomes mobility. We saw A-Rod & Big Ben still be good later throughout their careers but it was much easier to play against them as they got older due to the mobility aspect being not as good anymore.
Not to mention Brady is a lot like Lebron in the way he takes care of his body. I'm not saying Mahomes doesn't have that discipline but it's TBD. If he doesn't win a lot in his early years will he have the discipline to stay in shape long enough to catch Tom? The odds are stacked against him.
I think the point misses the fact that as Mahomes ages and gets more experiences, he should also become even better at reading defenses, getting the ball to where it needs to go quicker etc. Coach's point makes it sound that Mahomes can't improve/continually evolve as a pocket passer and that everything will stay the same except his mobility will diminish. I wouldn't think that would be true of any QB (or athlete) who is already considered elite. Roethlisburger didn't evolve because he didn't take care of his body, got critically injured etc. And, on top of all that, it also requires receivers who are bought in to whatever system is being run and being able to adapt routes based on defenses (one of the weakest aspects of KCs WR corps). Brady almost always had TWO legit 3rd down options so drives were being extended and were just historically efficient for most of their/his run.
@@user-rr3fo6hy9q yup, Brady was the prototype QB as well. He didn’t have to worry about his play regressing due to mobility. He was a true pocket passer with the best instincts I’ve ever seen in a QB. Peyton right there too.
We will be debating this for the next decade in a half. I’m not sure who is Patrick’s Payton. Maybe Joe, Trevor or Caleb. We are in the most pass heavy heavy era in football history and it’s slowly starting to trend in the other direction. Who knows what type of game changing generation talent will enter the nfl in the next 15 years. Chiefs are sitting pretty for at least the next five but without Travis the offense will need to evolve
Mahomes from a per game basis standpoint is far better statistically and eye test. Whenever people bring up Brady beating Mahomes in the superbowl it's easy to shut it down because Mahomes whole team was injured and then there's the fact that Brady got beat by bums like Eli twice and Nick Foles
Beat by Bums, Brady gave the Pats D a lead both Giants games with 2 minutes left. The eagles SB, the offense didnt punt once, Brady had 500 yards and 3 TDs with Amendola and Hogan at wr
I’ll never understand why people use rings to compare quarterbacks, winning is a team stat
Winning ultimately matters though. If it didn't, Dan Marino would be the GOAT QB because his numbers absolutely dwarfed that of every other QB that played in his era. It's not the only factor - you obviously have to have the individual accolades too. But it matters.
Mahomes will prob never get 7 rings, but if he gets like 5 MVPs and 5 SuperBowls MVPs and breaks a lot of Brady’s stats, would y’all have him over Brady?
Yep Brady got lucky on like 3 Superbowls wins but Brady did beat Mahomes in the Superbowl 🏆
Imagine winning a superbowl only being asked to throw 1td pqt would drool at the idea of it
No 2-0 in the playoffs as 40+ year old
@@LuisGustavo-ve7kc u mean against that 40yo defense lets not be stupid now
No, it’s a passing league so some of these guys will break those numbers.. Brady won 7, went to 10. He even won with a new team his first yr and was 40 and beat mahomes… also, Brady has moments, how clutch he was in the 4th and the comeback in the bowl… it’s more than just stats, it’s everything. It’s why so many have mj over lebron
Love Patty but realistically. How much longer is Travis going to be playing at this level? How much longer will Andy Reid coach? I think those are 2 huge factors. Plus we know the chiefs aren’t hitting too often on their draft picks. But for now as long as you got Travis, Patty, and Reid I think they will be fine
People underrate Kelce and his ability to get open as Mahomes' extends plays. It's gonna happen where he won't be there. Mahomes can throw but so much is relied on outside structure and throwing it to a big target that can get yak yards. It's so unique
For me, the real water-shed moment will be once Kelce retires and Pat hits 30, 31, 32 years and his athleticism wanes. Can he maintain his ability to win tight games without his physical gifts? If Andy leaves in the next 3 to 5 years, this too, will be a major factor for the evaluation of his success. In today's inflated stats era, the yards, TDs, INTs, CPT, etc. are not that relevant. He will meet the greats a couple of years. But can he come back from a 2 or 3 TD deficit in a Superbowl? He already showed us that he can create a last second kamikaze drive to win the AFCCG. But against Tampa, on the other hand, he was otherworldly magical but couldn't put up any points. Also, Brady proved twice (with NE and the Bucs) that his teams could beat Mahomes' teams. Brady had to go through Peyton and Big Ben several times. Mahomes will have to go through Joe Burrow, Allen, Lamar, Herbert, Lawrence, etc just to get to the SB. I don't think it is so sure that KC will keep on winning the AFC as they did before. Also, let's not forget, the NFC will be loading up on some major talent over the next years because the whole Conference is QB depleted.
The question with time is will Mahomes be able to adjust his game play, to play within the physical limits of his body as he ages. We'll have to wait and see, but I wouldn't bet against him.
Last playoffs proved that when his athletism goes he can play strictly in the pocket and be just as effective
@@samuelwilliams3086no, not just as effective. He was still running in all of those postseason games last year, it’s what won them their last two games. I think he needs to improve his pocket mobility. I also believe that he will. Hill leaving was one of the best things to happen to his career.
@@samuelwilliams3086I disagree. As he gets older his arm won't still be the same with those throws (and that's assuming NO injuries)
@@samuelwilliams3086I think the reason he was still able to be effective is because defenses still had to respect his mobility. Once the mobility goes, defenses will be able to focus on him in the pocket more often and they’ll cover his guys without having one eye on the possibility of his scrambling
The answer is No
Eli Manning has entered the chat
@@Nathan34370 Eli Was That Guy When The Lights Were On
You mean the football getting miraculously pinned against a players helmet?
@@JC-db7so I'm talking about 2 Superbowls against Brady.
Them Grown Men Making Plays Out There 💪
He is 100% wrong, Brady had the defensive help while Mahomes had the same amount of health on offense which makes it look like Mahomes contributed more early on. If Brady started in the same era as Mahomes this isn’t even a question. But Mahomes has not contributed more early on, both benefited early off of great to elite talent on one side of the ball while also being great themselves. Brady unfortunately never had a Kelce or Hill until later in his career and even then had them at limited times due to injury or the player just leaving.
Just debating this is insulting. We can talk in 10 years after Mahomes gets some more rings. But as of now, 7 rings to 2 rings. It should not be a conversation yet.
A 43 year old Tom Brady literally dressed up like a pirate and beat defending champion Patrick Mahomes 31-9 in the Super Bowl.
Nick Foles….
They didn’t even score a TD
Mahomes could be god and probably struggle to win that superbowl against Brady Half he's team was injured lol.
You literally just helped nicks arguments. Chiefs defense was terrible that year. Meanwhile, TB had a top 3 defense
So an experienced player beat an inexperienced one? That’s so weird…
I'm surprised Nick ain't say that he's sure Mahomes will look like he did last year in the playoffs and superbowl on his bum ankle with his mobility lacking he still managed to get it done
Tom's numbers are set in stone, Mahomes has to go out and get his to compare. Odds are against Mahomes, and it's not really a coin toss. However, Mahomes is absolutely awesome, and heck I'd LOVE to see the kid beat every record out there. What kind of football would THAT be??? Pure magic is what.
The answer is no. That won’t stop people from debating it. I’m not sure what the rush is. In addition to breaking and surpassing all of Brady‘s records, Patrick would then have to build a Time Machine when he’s in his mid-40s, and somehow make Tom Brady be in his late 20s and beat him not once, but twice in championship games. 😂 Also have a yearly average of being in a AFC or NFC championship game, or the Super Bowl for the duration of his entire career.
😅
No I don't think so, Patrick Mahomes prowess is due to his extreme athleticism; once that starts to decline he doesn't have Brady's game acumen to make up for it.....
This is a stupid conversation. It is an insult to the greatness of Tom Brady.
Eric mangini always proves why he isn’t in a locker room 😂
Football is such a hard sport. Way too early for this conversation.
This conversation is still disrespectful to even have. He really gets to JUMP past the other greats like Montana straight to Brady? Lets give it some time. Using nicks logic brady was on pace to win 12 SBs at this point you can't assume such things.
Exactly, for some reason Mahomes is already above Peyton, Montana or any other. 😂
Even if Mahomes gets 5 or so rings I still think what will always put Brady over the top is the fact that he’s 2-0 against Mahomes in the playoffs and one of those 7 Super Bowls came against Patrick in his prime.
People will say those two games shouldn't count against Mahomes because football is ultimately a team game, but getting blown out offensively by a 43 year old that you're in the GOAT debate with in the heat of your prime is going to be an asterisk he will never be able to overcome
Mahomes was not in his prime
@@randywatson6583 He threw 38 TD and 6 INT that season lmao
Mahomes was not in his prime Brady beat a baby Mahomes , You enter your athletic prime at age 28 and exit around 34
@@KevonDaDon He won MVP 2 years prior and SBMVP the year before, and threw 38 TD and 6 INT the season they lost to the Bucs. He was in his prime buddy
IMO from an argument standpoint Mahomes would have to win 8 super bowls as Brady already has the head-to-head. Me? I'm just happy that I'll be able to say I saw them both play no matter what the argument for GOAT is...
I’m gonna say this one thing, Tom Brady has more Super Bowls rings then every other franchise in NFL history so when Patrick Mahomes tops that he can be the goat
Tainted Rings * Asterisk
I fully disagree with Mangini! Mahomes is learning the game at a rapid rate and is now beating teams with his knowledge of the game far more than relying his athleticism.. He’s just as smart a QB as Brady was at this point in his career, but uses his running ability when the play breaks down, rather than take the sack like Brady would in that scenario because he had no running ability.. There’s no doubt in my mind that in my mind that Mahomes would be able to still play at the highest level when he is not as athletic as he is now.. But still, that might be AT LEAST another 6-7 years from now when he won’t be able to use his legs effectively..
Please go look at the teams he beat this year.....
One of the biggest things working against Mahomes is that when he went head to head against Brady in the Playoffs, he lost every time.
And when they went head to head in the Superbowl, Brady’s team destroyed Mahomes Chiefs.
It’s going to be EXTREMELY difficult to overcome that fact for Mahomes.
The issue with that is the small sample size and that people have eyeballs. One of the encounters was too early in his career, and the other one all 5 of mahomes's offensive linemen were out. Those aren't circumstances for a fair test of skill between 2 players.
@@ronankelley7768that's just you making excuses for Mahomes. Brady could've, and probably should've won every Super Bowl he played in, it's crazy how close he came in each loss. But he lost, and that's it. No excuses. The same goes for Mahomes. He will never pass Brady. Ever.
@@barberman2737good thing it’s not up to you right.
@@KevonDaDon , if you want Mahomes to be better than Brady, then that's what you'll think, whether it happens to be true or not. There are people that think Lebron James is the best basketball player ever. It is what it is.
Man it’s so sad Rodgers got hurt this year. He rarely had a good defense in GB, this was his year to have one.
The answer is No. He couldnt beat brady when it matters, he stepped into a winning system with 2 future hall of fame pass catchers and the best offensive head coach of all time in an all passing league, the stats dont matter, getting beat when it counts matters, he wont be the goat unless he wins 8, good luck with that.
Longevity means a lot in this debate. But who was better at their peak? For that debate I say Mahomes.
For me, I say Brady.
@@KiLlACaMrOn94I have to agree. At his peak regardless of the weapons around him you knew Brady would get it done one way or another 🐐
Brady set multiple QB records in 3 different decades, his peak is legit 20+ years long. He wasn't some average QB that just played forever, he peaked like 4 or 5 times lol.
True Brady had 3 1st ballot HOF peaks in one career
@Nathan34370 the ONE season he had a receiver like hill too he broke all the records. Imagine if he had a prime moss multiple seasons....bradys numbers would have been ridiculous
He has to dominate the league for 21 years basically
Yall are nuts already comparing him to Brady. Ask the question again in 10 years.
The graphic is wrong wtf? Brady had 5sb apps in first 13years
It's funny how Brady won the Super Bowl three times in his first four years, but he was still about 10 years of sustained excellence away from people seriously putting him above Montana and the rest, calling him the greatest QB ever, and it wasn't until he was winning Super Bowls in his 40s that everybody got onboard. But it's like the moment they did, every QB who comes out of the gate playing well is talked about as a potential GOAT. The history of the league is stuffed full of guys and teams who played great football for a while, but nobody ever came close to doing what Brady did until Brady did it. Montana won four Super Bowls, Jim Kelly won four consecutive AFC championship games.
People (especially in the media) have been trying to knock Brady for YEARS. They wanted Manning to become that next GUY but, he didn’t have it in him. They had to concede it to Brady because he JUST KEPT WINNING. That’s where the hate comes from, nowhere else.
It’s going to be the same thing if Lebron gets crowned the GOAT, guys will just start leapfrogging with the title of GOAT.
Coach getting a little defensive of Brady but at the end of the day Mahomes is literally breathing down his neck on the stats in just 5 years vs Brady's 13. If the Chiefs continue to support him and protect him he will go down as the GOAT.
2 vs. 7 = Breathing down neck. 😂
@@LASAGNA_LARRY Mahomes is going to double Brady's stats in half the time it took him. If the Chiefs front office does their job, that includes Superbowls
@@MmaMadman85You're leaving major context out here. Mahomes plays in a pass-happy era with practically no defense allowed today, and the greatest, if not 2nd greatest offensive coach of all time as his HC. Not to mention 17 game regular seasons to boot. Honestly just about any solid QB playing today is on pace to eclipse every all-time great statistically, it's just how the game is played now.
@@thesoundofsilence77 Hey dipshit, the graphic that I was talking about didn't list simple stats. It listed major awards and achievements. They are TIED on MVP's, TIED at Superbowl appearances, TIED in superbowl MVP's. Brady has 1 more superbowl win and 3 more Conference championship appearances but the difference between the two players is 8 years of competition. Obviously Pat would have better individual stats than Brady, hes a more talented thrower. Even without the extra game each season. Also don't bring up how defense isn't allowed to play anymore when Brady is the reason for that. The NFL created all sorts of rules and even out right cheated teams for Brady.
Highly unlikely that it happens but if anybody has the chance, its mahomes.
Wildes hittin' Nick with the "you like that" to end the segment was quintessential furry log lodger behavior.
When Mahomes entered the league he was 5 superbowl wins and 7 appearances behind Brady.
After an AMAZING first 6 years to Mahomes career, he's still behind Brady by 5 superbowl wins and 7 appearances. Also, Brady beating him head to head in the superbowl makes it a little worse if we're comparing their careers.
Brady's career compared to anyone else is mind boggling. Mahomes still has A LOT to do, and anything can happen.
Yeah it's not insignificant that Brady at 1000 years old beat Mahomes at 25. Or whatever. :)
brady didnt beat him head to head qbs dont play eachother, mahomes was playing vs one of the top defenses in the league behind a 3rd string oline brady was playing vs a mid defense at best
@@coltonforester9346excuses
Mangin’s argument is the only argument you can make. But it’s certainly flawed. Mahomes is really good in the pocket. With stacked offenses and top 5 defense he can / will be as good or better than Brady.
Brady loves the guy for crying out loud.
To say the divergence is his scrambling ability which is in fact just a facet that makes him BETTER feel intellectually dishonest.
When he said Brady's first 13 vs Mahomes' first 5, so he has 8 more years to get another bowl. Well, the crazy part is after Brady picked up that next ring, he was already 37, and then still reeled off 3 more rings AFTER that! AND don't forget, that was after missing an entire season due to a major injury from an ACL tear in his mid 30's. Let that sink in for a minute. Oh wait, it won't take that long...
Mahomnes is gonna break records it’s the superbowls, I don’t think he’s breaking 7 he might end somewhere 5-6 for sure. Depending on his stats at this rate he’s gonna be top 3 all time easily
Patrick mahomes on a skill level has surpassed and stats will be tough to compare like nick suggested but if he can get to 5 superbowl wins** I say yes without doubt as goat.
See, that’s what makes Brady the GOAT. He had to transcend physical talent. He had to elevate his team. Constantly. Winning down 28-3?!? That’s why he’s the GOAT.
So he has to do less to be thought of as better? Makes sense
If he can get to 5?! Brady went to five in 13 years, he went 3-2. After that, he went 4-1. Mahomes is not matching or exceeding that.
@@timh9220 meant 5 wins*
Skill he has but the IQ isn't even close. Through our Brady's career there were 3 QB's who were more skilled and only one of them was on Brady's level
Mahomes need to get at least 5 to be in the conversation with Brady. I think the sky is the limit for this guy
if he gets 5 rings and dominates on individual stats that would suffice
No it didn’t. Lots of years left for Patty. He’s so much a better physical QB. Watch him. Best ever
Another thing that sets Brady apart from Mahomes is Brady had to face Peyton Manning all the time to get to many of his superbowls. Manning was a much tougher superbowl road block than Josh Allen or Joe Burrow. Even Nick would agree on that.
With the 10 times he had a Top 6 scoring defense… while Peyton had how many of those?
@@cheemevafrass1485 "Scoring defense" is the most useless stat to grade a defense
@@cheemevafrass1485 Peyton's corpse literally got carried to a ring at the end of his career by one of the greatest defenses of all time wtf are you saying
@@tylers9476 of course it is to Brady fans who feel defense never helped him immensely
@@thesoundofsilence77 How are you comparing old man Peyton to young Tom? Young Tom got carried while young Peyton was doing the carrying …
Mahomes vs Brady will be the Jordan v. Lebron debate of the next 10 years.
The big difference is that they actually played each other.
Brady won the 2019 arrowhead invitational.
Then smoked Mahomes in the Super Bowl too.
As a Patriots fan. Tom is a goat only in stats. But if you had your choice of taking Tom in his prime or Patrick, you'd take Patrick 100/100. Patrick is a much more talented QB.
Brady is the GOAT in career resume, which is stats, wins, postseason, regular season, comebacks, mental prowess, etc.. etc... Talent is fleeting. Guess who else was "much more talented" than Brady... Michael Vick.
7 SB wins, 100,000+ passing yards, all time TD Leader, never lost to Mahomes in the postseason or SB.
It's a whole lot of ifs and assumptions. Bradys career is set in stone. Mahomes could tear his achilles Sunday and never be the same again.
Something else that's set in stone is Mahomes became the first QB THIS CENTURY to win MVP, the SB & SBMVP in the same season. The last QB to do that was Kurt Warner in 1999.
Some other things that Mahomes has set in stone?
2018: 5,097 Regular Season Passing Yards, 50 Passing TD'S, MVP & OPOY.
Fastest QB to 10k, 15k, 20k & 25k Passing Yards.
Youngest QB in history to beat all 31 other NFL teams.
Highest win rate % thru a player's first 100 games: 80%.
Those are just off the top of my head.
@@jenniferaceste8823 I don’t even need to list all the records that TB12 holds. But it’s way more than Mahomes. Mahomes has a long way to go and it’s a treacherous road for a mobile QB.
@@roundearthshill248
Brady acquired all those records during a 23 year career, yet never managed to win an MVP, SB & SBMVP in the same year.
All I recall is Brady crushed Patrick in two major ......major Games......they went head to head and Patrick ended up crying.....Patrick actually was bested by a way way way older Brady. The rest is jibber jabbering.
Nice try troll. Mahomes has never played against Brady. Mahomes plays against the Defense. Brady is the most “accomplished” QB, by far, but no serious person thinks he’s the “greatest”.
@@KCCheeznice try, troll. Mahomes scored less than Brady did both times they faced each other in the playoffs and he had much better offensive pieces around him the first go around. When Brady had the better offensive pieces around him, they blew out Mahomes and the Chiefs.
@@KiLlACaMrOn94 But they didn’t face each other. They faced the other teams defense…. I don’t understand why that’s such a hard concept for you.
That mobility excuse isnt valid look at rodgers over the years yeah it diminished but he still has it
Mahomes had 2 shots in championship games. He lost both times to Tom. Only way to surpass Tom now is to win 8. Plain and simple
Nice try troll. Mahomes has never played against Brady. Mahomes plays against the Defense. Brady is the most “accomplished” QB, by far, but no serious person thinks he’s the “greatest”.
@@KCCheezthats incorrect the fact tht hes the clutchest most consistently great qb anyones ever seen with all the stats and the rings makes him the greatest. And this is voming from a bills fan
@@KCCheez you just said no serious person thinks that the QB with more super bowls than any franchise is the greatest. Category 1 troll and Brady hater.
@@bassnhockey It’s not my fault most people in this country have little command of their native tongue… Most accomplished does not equal greatest. Words is hard!
@@KCCheezno serious person believes Tom is not the Greatest QB Ever.
Mahomes needs at least 6 Super Bowl wins
At least 6 more*
Let’s not act like Brady doesn’t also have all of the regular and postseason stats.
If it's all about rings, it's a no. As a Chiefs fan, I can see Mahomes getting 4 or 5 rings total. No one will surpass Brady in ring for probably the next 75 to 100 years.
With Personal stats, Mahomes is already starting to beat Brady in some metrics. If Mahomes beat every metric without the number of rings, then it can be debatable.
Personal stats, Brady still far outclasses everyone, Mahomes included.
GOAT status is the culmination of everything, not just one or two things.
It's not just about rings. Brady never lost to Mahomes in the playoffs. Brady took an undefeated team into a Superbowl and has the greatest Superbowl comeback of all time. He's also the only NFL QB to win a Superbowl in both Conferences and the 1st to win a Superbowl on his home field.
what does that offense look like without Kelce and reid when they retire
Mahomes has two head to head playoff losses to Brady, including a super bowl, while Brady was at the end of his career and Mahomes was in his prime. It's going to be very diffcult to overcome that
Prime...? lol😅 and mahomes couldn't play defense the first game. Also couldn't block for himself the second game. Sadly I will always remember spygate, and deflate gate always attached to bradys name.... not saying he isn't the greatest of all time as we speak.... but those were real situations that took place.
Tom Brady had a primetime defense in the Superbowl - 3 times actually, but especially against Mahomes.
@@joenorton9031 By almost every metric 2018 was the greatest statisical year of Mahomes career, he won the mvp that year, and it's capped off with a loss to Brady. I know it's weird to think of early in a career as being a part of someone's prime, but in this case it is.
@@joenorton90312018 was the best statistical career of Mahomes to this day.
Rings is only 1 factor and it's a team achievement. Brady had a top 5-10 defense for EVERY ring. Mahomes already has 2 rings with average defenses each time. Mahomes doesn't need as many rings as Brady to be the QB GOAT, he just needs to clearly demonstrate he is by far the best individual player we have ever seen at the position, which is what he has been doing. When he is 36 and his stats dwarf Bradys career stats, that'll speak for itself.
Niners Ring he had the #7 ranked defense in PPG.
@@LASAGNA_LARRY
In what specific areas of Defense? Sacks, Turnovers, FF'S, what?
@@LASAGNA_LARRY While their 5.4 yards per play allowed was near average. The fact that Mahomes was putting up so many points made his opponents press harder and fail on more 4th down conversions instead of taking FGs, scoring less as a result. His production helped his defense in PPG
Mahomes will have to be on this trajectory until 2040 for me to consider him the GOAT. Brady has been the best my teenage years to my adult life. Almost a quarter of a century.
Mahomes🎉
I believe it's only a matter of time before mahomeboy is declared the goat. For now, it's Brady.
SB rings are team accomplishments. MVP's and personal stats are how we SHOULD define who we call "GOAT". And Mahomes is on a trajectory to completely eclipse Brady. But the Skip Bayless' of the world will cry and point to the rings. Mahomes will probably get 5.
Brady>>>
Mahomes is gonna retire with 4 or 5 championships
GOAT is the culmination of EVERYTHING, not just one or two things, EVERYTHING.
Mahomes will likely finish with 5 so he will be considered the goat. Nut But Brady won 7 SBs and the common issue in all those SBs was he was the QB he has won without any one he has played with and for so just simply saying SBs are team accomplshments really have to be contextualized here
Brady elevated his teams. Year after year. He didn’t have a Jerry Rice with him for 4 rings. He didn’t have a dominant defense every year. He always had to find a way to win with what he had. And he did it with two teams. This convo is clickbait until Mahomes wins a couple more, and then a couple more without Kelce.
I'm not interested in this conversation until Travis Kelce retires. What I'm seeing since Hill left is that one guy, Kelce, is doing the heavy lifting. He's the safety blanket. I don't say this to discount what Kelce or Mahomes has done or what players like Gronk meant to Brady BUT I do feel like the winning is likely to change significantly when such a borderline unguardable player is gone. Now, as a fan I would like to believe that Mahomes will remain consistent regardless but I need to see it. I want to reflect on the quality of his career rather than try to project it. I mean, you might have thought Russel Wilson would be in tje GOAT conversation given how he started but when we reflect we see how that went.
I give mahomes a 20% chance to surpass Brady...and thats a testament to how great mahomes is because nobody is even close to Brady. 7 rings, 10 conference championships, about a hundred conference championship game appearances and the nfls all time leading passer in basically every major category all while playing til he was in his MID FORTIES! Its so unlikely anyone regardless of talent can last that long and won a super bowl at 25 AND 43. He had 3 game winning drives, the largest comeback in super bowl history plus another two 4th quarter comebacks in the superbowl. If mahomes can be blessed with Brady-esque longevity then hes got a real 50-50 shot at it...but nobody has ever had Bradys longevity and nobody has even come close which is why I only give him a 1 in 5 shot at surpassing Brady. He was an elite quarterback at 44 years old, thats just bonkers.
no, that discussion ended with the Chiefs vs Bucs superbowl
Dumb take
Really bad take mahomes had no oline and his defense was significantly worse than Brady's
This is a dumb take because the two were at different points in their career. It’s a snapshot.
So nick Foles and Eli Manning are the Goats??
Stupid human