As a synth-curious guitarist I wondered what people mean exactly when they say different synths have their own unique character. Now I get it. Thanks!!
the same can be said about guitars and they are a much more simple instrument than a synth. a strat has a different character than a flying V guitar different pickups also have a big effect on the character and those are just electro magnets. I'm into modular synths and even patching up the exact same modules in a different way can have a drastic effect on the sound. lets say 2 synths use exactly the same circuit diagram but one of the synths uses traces between the components that are twice as long as the other synth. the longer wires have a higher resistence which can effect the sound, it would be very subtle but the difference would be there. (same way a guitar pickup with tighter wound coils and more wire will effect the sound) some of the older synths that used real wiring between components cut and assembled by human beings (not circuit boards printed and etched by machine) can sound different even if it is the same model of synth. no 2 minimoogs sound EXACTLY the same because of small variations in the build process. (they will be very similar but not identical) even the temperature of a room can have an effect on the sound of a synth.
To me, the envelopes of the Model D makes a big difference. Compared to the others, It is like it has been run through a compressor to give the transients extra punch. Great video.
@@waynesilverman3048 well, I'm a drummer but I write on all kinds of gear.... mostly hardware based, I'm having a computer built so I can run my MPC sampler machine and finalize some ideas into final songs. But my sequencing is done on a Yamaha rm1x at the moment and I do love that box... I've used it since 1999... so I've got it down by now. I love the deep edit abilities in real time.... can't beat it... but it's old and buttons are broken lol... like I literally wrote this last track with a small ball of foil shorting the play button to the board for GO lol... sounds a bit crazy, and it is lol.... but it works. I'll always love it but moving on is important aswell.
OMG that Barp really got me. No wonder you left it till the end. That's been on my list for quite a while and I have the space reserved for it. This was fun!
The ARP is surprisingly amazing ( I guess it shouldn't be, it's always been amazing ). If you're not use to patching, the learning curve can be steep. Awesome synth that demands attention to detail 🙌
Awesome video! I do basically the same thing when designing bass patches in analog, but I almost always end up using my Grandmother or PRO3. To my ears, the PRO3 was the clear winner here overall. Just had way more bite and character once that filter opened up. That patch with a bit of state-variable filter action would've been amazing!
Someone already said it but would've loved to hear how the Minotaur held up. That's a bass monster. Loved this video, shame it wasn't like twice as long!
I like that you commented on the envelopes; some people seem to forget about them and focus on the raw oscillator and filter when comparing synths. Thanks for putting this all together!
I'm new to the synth world, my (humble) collection consists of only the Arturia Modular V and Mini V software synths, but this was a good video for learning about some sonic aspects and how to make unique sounds.
Great video. To me the Model D, and Moog in general, is like the Precision Bass. It always work on a mix. It's THE sound for bass. But of course, there are hundreds of other sounds that can work an will sound great.
If anything, Moogs (and moog type circuits) can be TOO thick in a mix... hehe. Not a problem if you do a little careful EQ. For other synths, and FM synthesis... an analog chorus can really take a bassline into orbit. Different than Moog 'fur' but just as satisfying...
I have several of these synths, but none of them have the special sauce thingy the model d has... It's also the one I don't own. I always wanted the model d, this video convinced me!
I really enjoyed this video. I’ve watched some content creators pit two synths against each other, especially synths with lots of similarities. This is the first vid I’ve seen where someone’s gone to the lengths you have, and it was very interesting …am I the only one who wants to hear all the synths playing their respectively refined patches all at the same time? I bet that would sound incredible! Great vid, keep up the good work 👍🏻
Loved the video... just proving what I already knew... even basic subtractive analog synthesis has thousands of variables. Every company's oscillators, envelopes, filters, and VCAs are all different, and when you string them together, they each have unique voices! Not one can really copy the other's sound. As much as I love my modular.... I'm now wondering if I'd just have more fun with a Novation Peak, and Beh_2600 and Model_D. With those 3 synths.... you'd really have a wide spectrum covered.
Love the great bass coming from the Barp!! I got the Barp and Model D and they are amazing, Behringer K2 is also amazing it's got some serious bass and a top notch duel filter.
Haha! Yes dude, some of us are listening intently until the very end. I kinda knew the Boog would 'win' at bass, but good to hear the comparisons, especially (for me) the Pro3 and BArp. Good work! Liked & Subscribed :)
The filter of the Model-D ist just too cool, need this synth, but will take some time to get the money together... My first real analog synth, with 60 years... :)
thx for that, ijust had a few synths under my hands but i felt instantly that the bass of the modeld is sooonice,warm,distinct and fat.Super intersting to hear all these differnt cjarakters ^^and thx for the Work^^
I love your videos and style. I found this video very illuminating as I never thought the differences would be so distinct. Especially for a bass voice with lowpass and even if one starts with three analog oscillators… Turns out both the devil and sonic bliss is in the details 😀👍
That 2600! I keep telling myself I've got enough analogue synths, not enough space, and other plans for what to buy next. Then I hear things like this and I immediately start to waver 🤪
this type of video is the thing I did before there was even youtube ! :) very good.. its the reason I have A: a huge synth collection (pre 1990) and B: a big 5 u modular with a ton of different osc/filters..
Great Video, I think I need an ARP 2600 now! Lol… thanks Tefty HNY dude. PS - I have a modelD, Neutron, Wasp Deluxe, Pro-One, Microfreak already, my best wishes for 2022!
Enjoyed this comparison...what fun having all those instruments. I should use my MPC One more as the brain. I have hooked up my keystep like yours and left the beatstep pro and microfreak to control the volcas and neutron. Btw, when you mentioned the Neutron as having a "nice little patchbay", my Lfo triggered... ; )
The Neutron patchbay is excellent. I hooked up my Roland Aerophone AE-30 wind synth to my Neutron and with the aid of a MidiVolts Desktop for more CVs I was able to control filter cut-off and resonance and control the LFO for "vibrato on demand". I'm looking forward to using the CV outs on my MPC One to switch oscillator settings. I uploaded a video of it in action to my channel.
I've gotten way too many new synths lately and was thinking today about making the same patch on different synths to understand the sonic differences. First thing pops up on my you tube feed tonight is this video, which does exactly that. Thanks!! I just got the 2600 this week, so learning it. Would have like to see this done with the pro 1 too and modular, but I guess you could go all day. Subscribing now!
You guys are working so hard on this channel and really providing great content. Equal amount of songs, jams and nerd fests to keep your audience happy. I look forward to your regular releases every week and wish you both great success in 2022. Gary ( From Ireland)
Model D really nailed that particular sound the best to my ears. The lows ring out so nicely deep and smooth even with a bit of OD it's still a good sounding bass. Having heard your Barp I know my Bodyssey will not match to it either.
Hot damn that Behri Model D is punching waaayy above it’s weight class. I have a Blue Marvin and a Typhon, but I usually go with my sweet Moog Granny for bass. That low end just sits so perfectly. Behringer really nailed that delicious Moog sound.
Great idea for a video. I found it extremely valuable. The low-end volume of each of the bass notes you play is FAR more consistent on the Model D. That big, beefy fundamental never lets up, whereas, on every other synth, the lower notes have a noticeably weaker low-end (fundamental). I think detuning the oscillators worked against you on the other synths because it's way too easy for two oscillators to get out of phase with one another, which can cancel the fundamental. I swear I can hear the low-end drop off each time you start detuning.
Yeah, listen to the Analog 4 segment especially. You will hear certain notes drop *drastically* in volume. I think that's the oscillators going out of phase at certain frequencies due to the detuning.
I enjoyed the audio showcasing of differences in each synths particular architecture. Top 2 for me were the Model D and the 2600. The others were still quite pleasing, but those stood out the most for my tastes. The sound of the MicroFreak really surprised me, so I guess that gets a podium spot in 3rd.
Always interesting to compare the sound signature of different synths. For the bass line the Model D is the king, more warmth and roundness while having the necessary bite. The 2600 can really sound as big as the model D and it is normal because they had some important similarities (3 VCO, "same" VCF hence problems between ARP and Moog). The Take 5 is surprisingly very good too, not same sound signature, but usable for the job. All others synths, even the Peak I really love, are not done for this job, that's clear. I'm a bit disappointed by the Pro-3, I was hoping something more powerful. Sometime people asks why we have so much synths.They thing they are all the same. That's false, each synths has its own range of sounds where it can shine. All synths are not good for basses, not all can produce water clear bells, so we need them all :-)
With any synthesiser, analogue or digital, the output circuitry, amplifiers, choices about headroom ,etc makes such a difference to the sound and musicality of the instrument. I believe that's a big part of the reason why people like the sound of Moog synthesisers so much. They have heaps of headroom and have circuits that have really nice sounding harmonic distortion with lots of low end. I don't believe the oscillators themselves contribute as much to the sound of any synth as does the output circuitry.
Yes that's why the same synth sounds different depending on the mixer sampler or listening device and their settings. Not to mention the listening environment. The range of possibilities could kill me, aaaaah! Sometimes I feel like making music is like painting blindfolded.
@@user-tv7jx9pw1q You can think about it as using different shades of the same color. It's not painting blindfolded, It's finding your favorite shade and then sticking to it.
@ArcaneAudio I'm not here to argue which filter is the best. In fact, I don't know the names of the different filters, I can just hear them. That's a cool trick I should try. But I'm basing my experience off of my three Moogs: DFAM, Mother, and Subharmonicon.
I think All Y’all are kinda correct....! Each component makes subtle sonic differences, but if every synth ever made used the Exact Same Components the actual physical circuit(signal flow) upon which the components are mounted, will also make a sonic difference.....
Thank you for a very enlightening test! Emperor's new clothes if I ever saw it. The difference between those "analog" synths is fantastically minimal. I would be curious to see you do a blind test to see if you could even tell them apart, let alone recognize them. No character, no life, no grit, no personality...I could recognize my synths blindfolded from the next room. SH101, Wasp, Korg monopoly, Prophet 5, OB8, Arp 2600, Super Jupiter...Even if I tried, I couldn't make them sound alike. Not even close. Modern components sound colder than digital and all exactly the same. I believe it is really a much better option to skip those fakes and go software where truly different, interesting and new stuff is possible. Astounding stuff!
Just stabbing in the dark here, but I think the main difference between the Model D and the Neutron (which I have) is that the Model D has a 24 dB/oct low-pass ladder filter, whereas the Neutron has a 12dB multimode filter. The "roundness" of the Model D bass patch relies heavily on the steep cutoff of the LPF. (Thankfully, since the Neutron is Eurorack-compatible, if you REALLY want a 24dB filter you can always hook it up to an external module.)
Also re: the Microfreak, I agree that it's an unfair comparison. I sort of think of the Freak as a digital synth that happens to have an analog filter, so it's NOT gonna sound like a Minimoog. Which doesn't mean it's not worth getting, just that you'll probably have the best luck using it in a context where it can shine with its digital nature, rather than poorly emulating an analog synth (unless you're doing something simple like a 303 line with it).
you can even plug your neutron's oscillator mix into the model D's external input and send the model D output into the neutron's VCA. i find these synths work well together because you can e.g. use the model D's envelopes to give you extra modulation potential on the neutron, or vice versa
@@grouponspeam9236 Hm, well don't the Filter 1 and Filter 2 outputs have different topologies? Like I don't think both filter outputs can be low-pass at once. Maybe I'm wrong tho?
Thank‘s for this video. First one I saw aiming to show the differences in character while using comparable patches. Success 🙂 it helped a lot and is very inpiring 🔥🔥🔥
Do you know about the little knob hack for the Model D? You can change the big and small knobs. I took the big knobs from Oscillator 2 and 3 and switched them with Cutoff Frequency and Mod Depth. Makes a lot more sense, since those are the one you play the most. And I don't accidently change the Pitch on Osc 2 and 3 anymore. Thanks for your Videos, really great work!
Late to the party, I know. Um, at 10:15.....Osc Sync doesn't lock them together. As one oscillator finishes a cycle, it resets the phase of another oscillator, forcing the latter to have the same base frequency. This can produce a harmonically rich sound, the timbre of which can be altered by varying the synced oscillator's frequency. A synced oscillator that resets other oscillator(s) is called the master; the oscillators which it resets are called slaves. The Cars "Let's Go" keyboard lead is an example of one of the most famous Oscillator sync sounds in pop music. Otherwise, great work. Subbed!
on the A4, if you wanted to make a detuned 3osc sound like the Model D, you can use the NEI oscillator type on OSC2 of either Tracks 2, 3 or 4 to route the oscillators of the preceding track through it; so for example if you set Track 2's OSC2 to NEI, you'd hear OSC1 and OSC2 of Track 1, plus OSC1 of Track 2, all going through Track 2's filter - three oscs all separately detuneable! You would obviously need to route your MIDI so that both tracks are receiving the same note data. You can even chain this all the way up to Track 4 so that you have up to 5 oscillators going through a single filter, and that's before you even take suboscs into account!
Great video. I still think the model d sounds the best for bass but that arp is really gritty and it’s got those great gnarly edges all over it. Thought the peak sounded good too, but I’m what I really think you should do is a minitaur model d comp even if it means borrowing one 😂 anyway great video as always but I’d definitely say that this one of your best to date. Oh and don’t worry about the length of the video not all of us have the attention span of a tik tok instabookface user 😂
Yeah wish I had a Minitaur on hand. Both the Sirin and Minitaur have been on the short list of purchases, just haven't pulled the trigger yet. Thanks for watching 🙏
Okay, BIG difference with the Minilogue: the way it generates a sawtooth waveform makes it so that any pure (non-mirrored) sawtooth generated will be an octave higher in pitch than the other two waveforms. I'd personally also switch the filter to 4-pole mode, since that's closer to the 24dB/oct filter in the Model D. That said, you made a solid bass patch with it as is, so who am I to talk? It kinda reminds me of the "electric bass" patch on the Roland SH-1000 that Bruce Haack used in Haackula.
Nice video! Very interesting indeed! To me it sounds like the most musically important differences are envelope shapes and glide slope. Model D sounds like the envelope changes are curved very nicely by default. The ADSR sounds so groovy! Its snappy but not sharp and nicely proportioned between parts of the ADSR. It really dances! The 2600 was great aswell. Some of the other synths sound more or less stiff to my ears. It would be interesting to fiddle with envelope settings in, lets say Peak, to push it closer. With a powerful synth like that I would hope to do better in a similar patch. I certainly can with the Ultranova by tweaking amp/filter envelope curves and glide settings. Has anyone here pushed the peak hard for that nice fat groovy wobbly feeling in a bass sound?
this is awesome, great stuff. i'd love to see this kind of comparison done to include some other moog D inspired synths like the SE-02 or more modern offerings from moog itself (e.g. the phatties, etc)
tbf., once one looks a bit closer at the technical side of things, one might notice that the Neutron and the Model D are architecturally quite drastically different as far as analogue monosynths go. The Model D is a Minimoog clone, the oscillators are realized via discrete circuitry (and, well, there are three instead of two) and the filter is a 4-pole, aka. 24 db/oct transistor ladder filter (aka the classic Moog filter... because Moog used to have a patent on that back in the day, so other synth manufacturers couldn't just easily copy it without risking legal problems... not that that actually stopped anyone) Meanwhile, the Neutron has two V3340 ICs (a clone of the CEM3340... also used, for example, in the Prophet Pro One, among a ton of others) for the Oscillators and the Filter is a 2-pole (so, 12 db/oct) state variable filter, that is allegedly a new design specifically for the Neutron... haven't seen a schematic for it yet. Well, and there is also the thing that the Neutron is extensively semi-modular, as the matrix of minijacks to the side should make obvious. Which means, neither the oscillators, nor the filter (nor anything else, really) are all that close aside from form-factor and the basic subtractive flow... that they thus also sound quite different from each other is... kinda expected. Or basically: the Model D and the Neutron are about as similar as bananas and tomatoes are similar, in that they are both small analogue monosynths, just like bananas and tomatoes are both, botanically speaking, berries (fun fact: I am not kidding, look it up) ...well, kay, technically, you can use the Neutron as a two note paraphonic synth if you wish as well, so~... not even the monosynth-thing is strictly true.
Very nice informative video. I own a real old Minimoog and the Behringer Poly D but you need to consider the Super Jupiter bass... Simply gorgeous fat like a cow and smooth like silk. Anyway, I love Moog (also the wild multimoog) but you should check the MKS80 for this kind of bass kr the Jupi8
I own the Model-D, Neutron and Pro-1. The Neutron can definitely sounds "dirty" like the Model-D. Just play around with the Overdrive gain and tone. Also routing the output back into the Neutron using the patchbay can get some surprising results.
Holy bgesus that Berlinger 2600 is jaw dropping sound. I have been looking at the Moog matriarch for my nex synth, although I’m also looking at the Waldorf Irridium. I pre-ordered the iridium but it was taking so long I got impatient and canceled it. Regrettably maybe but the matriarch is also now a big contender for me. The Berlinger 2600 is now also something I need to look at more. I don’t want a bunch of synths. However I want that fuller analog sound
I still think nothing beats Neutron's warm, dirty, fuzzy, growling, rubbery bass line. Model D is a bit too muffled for my liking when it comes to punchy bass, but I love how Behringer Cat does it as well.
Great video... I've thought about doing something similar for a while, and it made me want to send you my Sub37... 😊 I know you were doing this with hardware, but I'd really like to have heard Pigments (or another multi-function softsynth) in for comparison. 👍
Awesome idea ... like it ... which you would have considered the MPC that was laying next to you ;). I will try with to use Odyssey plug in .. again .. cool idea ..
Great vid. Not surprised the Boog crushed on bass duties. The Barp did well, and I wasn’t surprised the polys were much weaker, but I was very disappointed in the Pro 3. You would think Dave’s current flagship mono could at least hold its own. Far cry from the Pro One, which along with the 2600 and Prodigy are about the only monos that ever could compete with the Minimoog on bass. (Not to mention to Taurus etc). Also kinda surprised the Microfreak couldn’t get any more heft and punch than this.
Amazing how well the Model D sounds. I can see why so many people love it.
I have wanted someone to make a video like this years! Thank you! I only wish a MS-20 and a Minitaur came to the party.
Thanks for watching! Wish I had a MS-20 and Minitaur! And Sirin..... and so many other synths 🤣
@@TeftyMeems 😁 it never ends!
The minilogue definitely has a distinct korg/ms20 sound
As a synth-curious guitarist I wondered what people mean exactly when they say different synths have their own unique character. Now I get it. Thanks!!
the same can be said about guitars and they are a much more simple instrument than a synth. a strat has a different character than a flying V guitar
different pickups also have a big effect on the character and those are just electro magnets.
I'm into modular synths and even patching up the exact same modules in a different way can have a drastic effect on the sound.
lets say 2 synths use exactly the same circuit diagram but one of the synths uses traces between the components that are twice as long as the other synth. the longer wires have a higher resistence which can effect the sound, it would be very subtle but the difference would be there. (same way a guitar pickup with tighter wound coils and more wire will effect the sound)
some of the older synths that used real wiring between components cut and assembled by human beings (not circuit boards printed and etched by machine) can sound different even if it is the same model of synth.
no 2 minimoogs sound EXACTLY the same because of small variations in the build process. (they will be very similar but not identical)
even the temperature of a room can have an effect on the sound of a synth.
To me, the envelopes of the Model D makes a big difference. Compared to the others, It is like it has been run through a compressor to give the transients extra punch. Great video.
I'm gonna have that bassline stuck in my head all day 🤣
That's the point🎼😁🍻
@@real2reel947 its quite unique .is this your main instrument .
@@waynesilverman3048 well, I'm a drummer but I write on all kinds of gear.... mostly hardware based, I'm having a computer built so I can run my MPC sampler machine and finalize some ideas into final songs. But my sequencing is done on a Yamaha rm1x at the moment and I do love that box... I've used it since 1999... so I've got it down by now. I love the deep edit abilities in real time.... can't beat it... but it's old and buttons are broken lol... like I literally wrote this last track with a small ball of foil shorting the play button to the board for GO lol... sounds a bit crazy, and it is lol.... but it works. I'll always love it but moving on is important aswell.
@@waynesilverman3048 this video isn't me, but you can visit and hear some of my tunes if your interested.
Would love to hear this with the , moog grandmother!
This is what great majority of my personal synth sessions looks like - a lot of noise, very little to show for it, 100% pleasure :D
OMG that Barp really got me. No wonder you left it till the end. That's been on my list for quite a while and I have the space reserved for it. This was fun!
That was interesting. I liked the sound of the ARP. I like the more nasal sound of the filter.
The ARP is surprisingly amazing ( I guess it shouldn't be, it's always been amazing ). If you're not use to patching, the learning curve can be steep. Awesome synth that demands attention to detail 🙌
Super helpful and interesting to hear all these guys against the Model D. Thanks for taking the time to put the video together.
Fun video! They’re like kids - each one is completely different even from the same parents! Gladly subscribed. 😊
this comparison was a great idea
Thanks for watching 🙏
Nicely done. What a great way to demonstrate different synth characters.
Model D is alive!! Novarion peak very snappy and clear, also the model D sounds really chorusy, great video!
Awesome video! I do basically the same thing when designing bass patches in analog, but I almost always end up using my Grandmother or PRO3. To my ears, the PRO3 was the clear winner here overall. Just had way more bite and character once that filter opened up. That patch with a bit of state-variable filter action would've been amazing!
Pro 3 is delicious! Can't go wrong with it. I've yet to own a Grandmother. One day...
Someone already said it but would've loved to hear how the Minotaur held up. That's a bass monster. Loved this video, shame it wasn't like twice as long!
That was fun. Thank you for great background exploration while I was cooking in the kitchen.
I like that you commented on the envelopes; some people seem to forget about them and focus on the raw oscillator and filter when comparing synths. Thanks for putting this all together!
This was an eye opener for me for the Analog 4. Thanks for the comparison!
Peak held up really well 👌🏻. Super useful dude. Thanks
I'm new to the synth world, my (humble) collection consists of only the Arturia Modular V and Mini V software synths, but this was a good video for learning about some sonic aspects and how to make unique sounds.
Great video. To me the Model D, and Moog in general, is like the Precision Bass. It always work on a mix. It's THE sound for bass. But of course, there are hundreds of other sounds that can work an will sound great.
If anything, Moogs (and moog type circuits) can be TOO thick in a mix... hehe. Not a problem if you do a little careful EQ. For other synths, and FM synthesis... an analog chorus can really take a bassline into orbit. Different than Moog 'fur' but just as satisfying...
I have several of these synths, but none of them have the special sauce thingy the model d has... It's also the one I don't own. I always wanted the model d, this video convinced me!
I really enjoyed this video.
I’ve watched some content creators pit two synths against each other, especially synths with lots of similarities.
This is the first vid I’ve seen where someone’s gone to the lengths you have, and it was very interesting
…am I the only one who wants to hear all the synths playing their respectively refined patches all at the same time? I bet that would sound incredible!
Great vid, keep up the good work 👍🏻
Loved the video... just proving what I already knew... even basic subtractive analog synthesis has thousands of variables. Every company's oscillators, envelopes, filters, and VCAs are all different, and when you string them together, they each have unique voices! Not one can really copy the other's sound. As much as I love my modular.... I'm now wondering if I'd just have more fun with a Novation Peak, and Beh_2600 and Model_D. With those 3 synths.... you'd really have a wide spectrum covered.
Love the great bass coming from the Barp!! I got the Barp and Model D and they are amazing, Behringer K2 is also amazing it's got some serious bass and a top notch duel filter.
I have the K-2 and I love it...!
It's crazy how the Modle D. sounds richer for this base sounds than even synths 4x it's price point. 🤘
Haha! Yes dude, some of us are listening intently until the very end. I kinda knew the Boog would 'win' at bass, but good to hear the comparisons, especially (for me) the Pro3 and BArp. Good work! Liked & Subscribed :)
Analog 4 - you have to turn up the “SLIDE” parameter on page 2 of the OSC2 for portamento. ☺️
The filter of the Model-D ist just too cool, need this synth, but will take some time to get the money together... My first real analog synth, with 60 years... :)
This is great! Very helpful idea for people considering buying any of these synths and just understanding the concept that synths are different.
Great Video! It compares so many things between all the synths! Thanks
This was fantastic to watch, and a great learning video for me anyway. I hope you do more similar videos. Thanks so much.
Don't mind the length of this video, was really impressed to hear the differences in sound. Wel done sir.
The pro 3 sounded great in isolation, the range on sequential gear always blows me away.
thx for that, ijust had a few synths under my hands but i felt instantly that the bass of the modeld is sooonice,warm,distinct and fat.Super intersting to hear all these differnt cjarakters ^^and thx for the Work^^
Fantastic video. This concept of generalization helps me learns different synths. Or learn the strengths and weaknesses of my synths.
A very insightful comparison
Thanks. I think i love the arp. Its growing on me.
Do have Peak and Analog Four MK2, amazing synths! Tend to use my Novation Mono Station for deep bass work, great for that! Thanks för the ”test”
I love your videos and style. I found this video very illuminating as I never thought the differences would be so distinct. Especially for a bass voice with lowpass and even if one starts with three analog oscillators… Turns out both the devil and sonic bliss is in the details 😀👍
Really glad that came across in the vid. Thanks for watching 🙏
Very cool comparison👍👍thanks for sharing and your efforts👍you have got some great synths - such a lovely collection! 👍
That 2600! I keep telling myself I've got enough analogue synths, not enough space, and other plans for what to buy next. Then I hear things like this and I immediately start to waver 🤪
this type of video is the thing I did before there was even youtube ! :) very good.. its the reason I have A: a huge synth collection (pre 1990) and B: a big 5 u modular with a ton of different osc/filters..
It’s a great tutorial too, on “that particular filtered bass patch” and how in general it’s made (regardless of synth).
Great Video, I think I need an ARP 2600 now! Lol… thanks Tefty HNY dude.
PS - I have a modelD, Neutron, Wasp Deluxe, Pro-One, Microfreak already, my best wishes for 2022!
Enjoyed this comparison...what fun having all those instruments. I should use my MPC One more as the brain. I have hooked up my keystep like yours and left the beatstep pro and microfreak to control the volcas and neutron. Btw, when you mentioned the Neutron as having a "nice little patchbay", my Lfo triggered... ; )
The Neutron patchbay is excellent. I hooked up my Roland Aerophone AE-30 wind synth to my Neutron and with the aid of a MidiVolts Desktop for more CVs I was able to control filter cut-off and resonance and control the LFO for "vibrato on demand". I'm looking forward to using the CV outs on my MPC One to switch oscillator settings. I uploaded a video of it in action to my channel.
@@unclemick-synths i must see that vid
@@dillipphunbar7924 Hi Dilip. It's the video on my channel called #jamuary2022 Re-gifted.
I so love this bassline and would have wanted more of this. Checked out your Bandcamp, it's certainly good, but I want instrumentals from you.
I've gotten way too many new synths lately and was thinking today about making the same patch on different synths to understand the sonic differences. First thing pops up on my you tube feed tonight is this video, which does exactly that. Thanks!! I just got the 2600 this week, so learning it. Would have like to see this done with the pro 1 too and modular, but I guess you could go all day. Subscribing now!
You guys are working so hard on this channel and really providing great content. Equal amount of songs, jams and nerd fests to keep your audience happy. I look forward to your regular releases every week and wish you both great success in 2022. Gary ( From Ireland)
Thank you Gary! Really appreciate the kind words ❤️🙏
Model D really nailed that particular sound the best to my ears. The lows ring out so nicely deep and smooth even with a bit of OD it's still a good sounding bass. Having heard your Barp I know my Bodyssey will not match to it either.
What a great video! Muchas gracias desde México. I'm gonna get that 2600! It's a monster.
Super edu for new synth converts. Great work here 🤘
Hot damn that Behri Model D is punching waaayy above it’s weight class. I have a Blue Marvin and a Typhon, but I usually go with my sweet Moog Granny for bass. That low end just sits so perfectly. Behringer really nailed that delicious Moog sound.
Luvya work mate 😎
Thank you! 🙏
very cool video, came out with a new cheat code for my arp! thanks for posting!!!
The ARP is a clear favourite for me. I'm glad I got one when I could.
Man, I enjoyed this so much. Cool stuff.
Great idea for a video. I found it extremely valuable. The low-end volume of each of the bass notes you play is FAR more consistent on the Model D. That big, beefy fundamental never lets up, whereas, on every other synth, the lower notes have a noticeably weaker low-end (fundamental). I think detuning the oscillators worked against you on the other synths because it's way too easy for two oscillators to get out of phase with one another, which can cancel the fundamental. I swear I can hear the low-end drop off each time you start detuning.
Yeah, listen to the Analog 4 segment especially. You will hear certain notes drop *drastically* in volume. I think that's the oscillators going out of phase at certain frequencies due to the detuning.
This was great, thanks for doing this
Thanks for watching!
The ARP and Model D sound great. For the price these things are simply amazing.
yes yes ! agree
Of course it was not an ARP..... it was a Behringer 2600.... but yeah, it's very inviting!
I enjoyed the audio showcasing of differences in each synths particular architecture. Top 2 for me were the Model D and the 2600. The others were still quite pleasing, but those stood out the most for my tastes. The sound of the MicroFreak really surprised me, so I guess that gets a podium spot in 3rd.
Awesome video! Also a great topic to spend time on
love those LED's on the BARP.... colored LED's sell it!
Nice shootout! Great way to get into different modules in depth. Gotta try this. Thanks heaps!
Always interesting to compare the sound signature of different synths. For the bass line the Model D is the king, more warmth and roundness while having the necessary bite. The 2600 can really sound as big as the model D and it is normal because they had some important similarities (3 VCO, "same" VCF hence problems between ARP and Moog). The Take 5 is surprisingly very good too, not same sound signature, but usable for the job. All others synths, even the Peak I really love, are not done for this job, that's clear. I'm a bit disappointed by the Pro-3, I was hoping something more powerful. Sometime people asks why we have so much synths.They thing they are all the same. That's false, each synths has its own range of sounds where it can shine. All synths are not good for basses, not all can produce water clear bells, so we need them all :-)
Loved the analog four :o
Really good idea, and nicely done
The Freak is a super synth, clearly not for this task, but nice to try it for it anyway, interesting
he could have gotten closer with more modulation and maybe a different oscilattor.
Model d win
Based
So what this taught me is I need a Model D. Thanks.
The sheer size of the 2600 is awesome. You need like 4 ft patch cables and a friend to help patch. Lol
With any synthesiser, analogue or digital, the output circuitry, amplifiers, choices about headroom ,etc makes such a difference to the sound and musicality of the instrument. I believe that's a big part of the reason why people like the sound of Moog synthesisers so much. They have heaps of headroom and have circuits that have really nice sounding harmonic distortion with lots of low end. I don't believe the oscillators themselves contribute as much to the sound of any synth as does the output circuitry.
Yes that's why the same synth sounds different depending on the mixer sampler or listening device and their settings. Not to mention the listening environment. The range of possibilities could kill me, aaaaah! Sometimes I feel like making music is like painting blindfolded.
@@user-tv7jx9pw1q You can think about it as using different shades of the same color. It's not painting blindfolded, It's finding your favorite shade and then sticking to it.
@ArcaneAudio In my experience, Moog filters take away lots of low end with resonance. I think he's just turned it up to compensate.
@ArcaneAudio I'm not here to argue which filter is the best. In fact, I don't know the names of the different filters, I can just hear them. That's a cool trick I should try. But I'm basing my experience off of my three Moogs: DFAM, Mother, and Subharmonicon.
I think All Y’all are kinda correct....!
Each component makes subtle sonic differences, but if every synth ever made used the Exact Same Components the actual physical circuit(signal flow) upon which the components are mounted, will also make a sonic difference.....
Thank you for a very enlightening test! Emperor's new clothes if I ever saw it. The difference between those "analog" synths is fantastically minimal. I would be curious to see you do a blind test to see if you could even tell them apart, let alone recognize them. No character, no life, no grit, no personality...I could recognize my synths blindfolded from the next room. SH101, Wasp, Korg monopoly, Prophet 5, OB8, Arp 2600, Super Jupiter...Even if I tried, I couldn't make them sound alike. Not even close. Modern components sound colder than digital and all exactly the same. I believe it is really a much better option to skip those fakes and go software where truly different, interesting and new stuff is possible. Astounding stuff!
Just stabbing in the dark here, but I think the main difference between the Model D and the Neutron (which I have) is that the Model D has a 24 dB/oct low-pass ladder filter, whereas the Neutron has a 12dB multimode filter. The "roundness" of the Model D bass patch relies heavily on the steep cutoff of the LPF. (Thankfully, since the Neutron is Eurorack-compatible, if you REALLY want a 24dB filter you can always hook it up to an external module.)
Also re: the Microfreak, I agree that it's an unfair comparison. I sort of think of the Freak as a digital synth that happens to have an analog filter, so it's NOT gonna sound like a Minimoog. Which doesn't mean it's not worth getting, just that you'll probably have the best luck using it in a context where it can shine with its digital nature, rather than poorly emulating an analog synth (unless you're doing something simple like a 303 line with it).
you can even plug your neutron's oscillator mix into the model D's external input and send the model D output into the neutron's VCA. i find these synths work well together because you can e.g. use the model D's envelopes to give you extra modulation potential on the neutron, or vice versa
Money saving tip: combine Filter1 and Filter2 using Sum1/2 patchbay, routing into VCA, and you will get a nicely 4pole filter.
@@grouponspeam9236 Hm, well don't the Filter 1 and Filter 2 outputs have different topologies? Like I don't think both filter outputs can be low-pass at once. Maybe I'm wrong tho?
Thank‘s for this video. First one I saw aiming to show the differences in character while using comparable patches. Success 🙂 it helped a lot and is very inpiring 🔥🔥🔥
Do you know about the little knob hack for the Model D? You can change the big and small knobs. I took the big knobs from Oscillator 2 and 3 and switched them with Cutoff Frequency and Mod Depth. Makes a lot more sense, since those are the one you play the most. And I don't accidently change the Pitch on Osc 2 and 3 anymore. Thanks for your Videos, really great work!
Great hack!
Pro tips!
great job, appreciating very much this video - you shoukd do more such videos about other patch types.. 👍👍👍
Will definitely consider more, thank you!
Late to the party, I know. Um, at 10:15.....Osc Sync doesn't lock them together. As one oscillator finishes a cycle, it resets the phase of another oscillator, forcing the latter to have the same base frequency. This can produce a harmonically rich sound, the timbre of which can be altered by varying the synced oscillator's frequency. A synced oscillator that resets other oscillator(s) is called the master; the oscillators which it resets are called slaves. The Cars "Let's Go" keyboard lead is an example of one of the most famous Oscillator sync sounds in pop music.
Otherwise, great work. Subbed!
AMAZING comparison!! Thanks so much, this was quite some work!
on the A4, if you wanted to make a detuned 3osc sound like the Model D, you can use the NEI oscillator type on OSC2 of either Tracks 2, 3 or 4 to route the oscillators of the preceding track through it; so for example if you set Track 2's OSC2 to NEI, you'd hear OSC1 and OSC2 of Track 1, plus OSC1 of Track 2, all going through Track 2's filter - three oscs all separately detuneable! You would obviously need to route your MIDI so that both tracks are receiving the same note data. You can even chain this all the way up to Track 4 so that you have up to 5 oscillators going through a single filter, and that's before you even take suboscs into account!
Great tip! 🙏
The sequential polys are definitely worth looking past for basslines but the possibilities are frightening on the pro 3
Great video… super good explanations…. Great examples … much appreciated ‼️
Great video. I still think the model d sounds the best for bass but that arp is really gritty and it’s got those great gnarly edges all over it. Thought the peak sounded good too, but I’m what I really think you should do is a minitaur model d comp even if it means borrowing one 😂 anyway great video as always but I’d definitely say that this one of your best to date. Oh and don’t worry about the length of the video not all of us have the attention span of a tik tok instabookface user 😂
Yeah wish I had a Minitaur on hand. Both the Sirin and Minitaur have been on the short list of purchases, just haven't pulled the trigger yet. Thanks for watching 🙏
Super useful video, thanks!
Okay, BIG difference with the Minilogue: the way it generates a sawtooth waveform makes it so that any pure (non-mirrored) sawtooth generated will be an octave higher in pitch than the other two waveforms. I'd personally also switch the filter to 4-pole mode, since that's closer to the 24dB/oct filter in the Model D. That said, you made a solid bass patch with it as is, so who am I to talk? It kinda reminds me of the "electric bass" patch on the Roland SH-1000 that Bruce Haack used in Haackula.
Nice video! Very interesting indeed! To me it sounds like the most musically important differences are envelope shapes and glide slope. Model D sounds like the envelope changes are curved very nicely by default. The ADSR sounds so groovy! Its snappy but not sharp and nicely proportioned between parts of the ADSR. It really dances! The 2600 was great aswell. Some of the other synths sound more or less stiff to my ears. It would be interesting to fiddle with envelope settings in, lets say Peak, to push it closer. With a powerful synth like that I would hope to do better in a similar patch. I certainly can with the Ultranova by tweaking amp/filter envelope curves and glide settings. Has anyone here pushed the peak hard for that nice fat groovy wobbly feeling in a bass sound?
this is awesome, great stuff. i'd love to see this kind of comparison done to include some other moog D inspired synths like the SE-02 or more modern offerings from moog itself (e.g. the phatties, etc)
Well that earns a subscribe for sure, thanks for this!
The Crucible BECKONS you, Guardian!
Relax, Guardian, you're SCARING THEM! They'll never want to match with you again! - 😏
tbf., once one looks a bit closer at the technical side of things, one might notice that the Neutron and the Model D are architecturally quite drastically different as far as analogue monosynths go.
The Model D is a Minimoog clone, the oscillators are realized via discrete circuitry (and, well, there are three instead of two) and the filter is a 4-pole, aka. 24 db/oct transistor ladder filter (aka the classic Moog filter... because Moog used to have a patent on that back in the day, so other synth manufacturers couldn't just easily copy it without risking legal problems... not that that actually stopped anyone)
Meanwhile, the Neutron has two V3340 ICs (a clone of the CEM3340... also used, for example, in the Prophet Pro One, among a ton of others) for the Oscillators and the Filter is a 2-pole (so, 12 db/oct) state variable filter, that is allegedly a new design specifically for the Neutron... haven't seen a schematic for it yet. Well, and there is also the thing that the Neutron is extensively semi-modular, as the matrix of minijacks to the side should make obvious.
Which means, neither the oscillators, nor the filter (nor anything else, really) are all that close aside from form-factor and the basic subtractive flow... that they thus also sound quite different from each other is... kinda expected.
Or basically: the Model D and the Neutron are about as similar as bananas and tomatoes are similar, in that they are both small analogue monosynths, just like bananas and tomatoes are both, botanically speaking, berries (fun fact: I am not kidding, look it up)
...well, kay, technically, you can use the Neutron as a two note paraphonic synth if you wish as well, so~... not even the monosynth-thing is strictly true.
Very nice informative video.
I own a real old Minimoog and the Behringer Poly D but you need to consider the Super Jupiter bass...
Simply gorgeous fat like a cow and smooth like silk.
Anyway, I love Moog (also the wild multimoog) but you should check the MKS80 for this kind of bass kr the Jupi8
I own the Model-D, Neutron and Pro-1. The Neutron can definitely sounds "dirty" like the Model-D. Just play around with the Overdrive gain and tone. Also routing the output back into the Neutron using the patchbay can get some surprising results.
I found the Peak to have very similar raw oscillators were very similar to my Sub37. Very Moogy.
Great comparison, wonder how a Minibrute 2s would sound compared as it seems like a good candidate for bang for buck with the sequencer.
Holy bgesus that Berlinger 2600 is jaw dropping sound. I have been looking at the Moog matriarch for my nex synth, although I’m also looking at the Waldorf Irridium. I pre-ordered the iridium but it was taking so long I got impatient and canceled it. Regrettably maybe but the matriarch is also now a big contender for me. The Berlinger 2600 is now also something I need to look at more. I don’t want a bunch of synths. However I want that fuller analog sound
Serious flex to have 3 Sony A7s, all those synths, lightning and studio
I still think nothing beats Neutron's warm, dirty, fuzzy, growling, rubbery bass line. Model D is a bit too muffled for my liking when it comes to punchy bass, but I love how Behringer Cat does it as well.
Interesting comparison!
Based on every video I've seen, the 2600 is great for bass.
Great video... I've thought about doing something similar for a while, and it made me want to send you my Sub37... 😊 I know you were doing this with hardware, but I'd really like to have heard Pigments (or another multi-function softsynth) in for comparison. 👍
Maybe a VST vs hardware comparison video would be nice.
Awesome idea ... like it ... which you would have considered the MPC that was laying next to you ;). I will try with to use Odyssey plug in .. again .. cool idea ..
Yup, plus some iOS plugins, VSTs etc ... After a couple hours of recording I realized the video was rapidly approaching an hour in run time 🤣
@@TeftyMeems fair point ... nevertheless the idea and the execution is excellent ... thanx for such a great start into 2022.
Great vid. Not surprised the Boog crushed on bass duties. The Barp did well, and I wasn’t surprised the polys were much weaker, but I was very disappointed in the Pro 3. You would think Dave’s current flagship mono could at least hold its own. Far cry from the Pro One, which along with the 2600 and Prodigy are about the only monos that ever could compete with the Minimoog on bass. (Not to mention to Taurus etc). Also kinda surprised the Microfreak couldn’t get any more heft and punch than this.