How Kids See Class Differences | Regardless Of Class | CNA Insider
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- "They think that we are quite stupid, so they seldom talk to us." How do students in Singapore from the Express, Normal Academic and Normal Technical streams perceive each other?
And when does such class consciousness start? We found it could be as young as 9 years old.
#RegardlessOfClass examines class difference - the issue that more than half of 1,036 respondents think is most likely to cause a social divide, according to a survey conducted by Channel NewsAsia.
READ MORE: cna.asia/2NewCTj
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Watch the full documentary here: cna.asia/2P7txGe
About the show:
Singapore is a city of opportunity. We're a nation built upon the ideals of meritocracy, equality, and justice. But a nationwide survey reveals that Singapore's sharpest social divisions are not based on race, language, or religion, but class.
This new documentary Regardless of Class examines the invisible line that cuts through the heart of a maturing nation.
In the next installment of the "Regardless of" series, Janil Puthucheary, the chairman of OnePeople.sg, goes on a journey to speak to people across the class spectrums. How deep is this class divide? And how can he bring the two sides together?
parents should stop telling their kids, "If u dont study hard, you would end up like toilet cleaners or beggers on the streets" instead, they should tell them, "If u study hard, you can make people lives better."
Jaela Limmie THANK YOU
I'm pretty much sure that won't work cos children are usually selfish in nature
denzel lim My mom doesn’t put expectations on me but because of that, I tend to put high expectations on myself. I guess it’s because I want to be able to fully support my mom when she’s older and bring her on vacations and buy whatever she wants and needs in the future. That’s why I expect myself to do well
Childern learm from visual, the more common n close to them, the more understandable for them
Yes! There's nothing wrong working as a garbage truck driver if the pay is good..
Honestly, I know a big bunch of people who speak really good English but they tone it down a little when speaking to others they know that are not as good at English, they use simpler, more commonly used vocab and add in more slangs / Mother tongue. It’s kinda like Speaking during an interview vs speaking to your friends, I believe we all can adjust and adapt.
Yea but for some Singlish is really how they speak and they cannot change unless they really try. I think what would help is if they’re exposed to speaking clear and proper English and they try to use that in their Everyday life
One word, all are LOSER.
Lmao this reminds me of primary school oral exams where I'd suddenly turn into an angmoh with a British accent and ace the exam,if only it were still that easy
For me it's usually the opposite. Because I come from a Chinese speaking family I don't really speak fluent English but being in express stream forces me to speak in better English (ie pretend). Back in lower Sec I used to just speak in Chinese because I felt really awkward speaking with my poor English.
I dunno why the subtitles!! Sell spoken English much better than some natives.
As a viewer of this video, I feel so uncomfortable too... :(
Yep...
Same here, I feel very uncomfortable about the speeches too
Even within a good school, those in the Arts stream are looked down on. I know; I was in the Special stream and was made to feel stupid for 4 years because I was in the Arts stream.
Mhm
J. P. The way the kid said rich people treat poor people badly made me uncomfortable and a bit angry in a way...
So that means if I’m rich I’m gonna spit on poor people?Of course not! It’s the attitude, not how rich you are..
i am a student from a school with only the express stream, so i've never interacted with someone from the NA or NT stream in school. watching this video and understanding how the NA and NT students felt while interacting with the express students, i felt so upset and cried. sorry but we don't claim those express bastards who look down on others just because they're in the express stream. my cousin is from the NT stream and he is the most talented and hardworking person i know. i cannot even match up with his abilities and that's just a fact. i hope young singaporeans will never stop trying to break these barriers between the different educational streams in school. we all can learn from each other and better ourselves.
Not sure what is the point of this discussion. Like our late LKY mentioned that there are differences (race, language or religion) that we recognise and we need to accommodate one another and learn to live together in Singapore. Has always been this way. MOE is already doing something about it as the children have not learnt how to accommodate with one another (root of problem is the adults who taught them nonsense). Time to bring back good old Social Education- How to be a good citizen.
R2D2 i agree.
The thing is, do all your class and schoolmates behave like bullies to other children ? or is it 5 or 15% (ie. 5-15 of 100) are of such distasteful characters?
Surely there are few, and do you feel proud of them?
Many a time, I think we are bullying the other good kids (Express/IP/IB...) who have done nothing wrong but just keep studying hard and excel. If the discussion is not balanced, it is 'self-destruction' on all good work built. Do not generalise.
So u still belief the system for Singapore and u only
Are u from crescent (just askin)
2 takeaways from this video. education has become a rat race with no compassion for those who fall behind, and singaporeans place too much emphasis on academic excellence when it is not all that.
i say this as an IP student, coming from a less wealthy family. i can see both perspectives, but here are my opinions:
1) the indian girl summed up what elitism is in singapore nowadays. it's the subtle off-hand remarks that exudes this sense of arrogance. NA/NT is not "lower" in any way, it's a difference in ""talent"". when she said a mixed class would not be viable, it sent some "issit social darwinism?" chills down my spine. progress will not happen if a group of intellectuals keep advancing on their own with no regard for peers who end up falling behind. progress does happen, when no one is discriminated and have equal resources in terms of funding, teachers, etc to advance. we need compassionate meritocracy.
2) it is clear that everyone's social circle consists mostly of those in similar classes. the rich, amongst the rich. the not-so-rich, amongst the not-so-rich. the harsh truth being this is the way it always has been. what we can do is not to perpetuate this by even streaming students since primary 3. it is undeniable that a majority (not all) of students in top schools are a product of kiasu rich parents. i say this from first-hand experience. so grouping children based on grades on a paper so easily manipulated by factors a child cannot control (like wealth, background, dna), they strip away this chance of children being able to interact beyond their social class. it's a pity because it's so true, and it furthers the notion of elitism and inferiority-complex in others.
imlazythough and they say grades are not everything. Lul
Well we're easily affected by the people around us and if we hangout with people (good or bad it doesn't matter) that don't really strive for success, it's unlikely we'll succeed in such a competitive world like it or not
@@Loloeansoto see, that's where elitism comes in. might as well have all the clever people band together, because the rest will just drag us down anyway. let's just have all the top people keep advancing further and further, but it's okay to leave the rest behind. in a society, there should not be too big a segregation between people based on such basis (ie. the clever people are usually from richer families -> lesser contact with children from other background -> become disconnected and increasingly elitist). reality is, that's the very thing that's happening now. so society can't progress all together, it's just the smart keeps getting smarter to 'lead' the country, even if they don't help their peers.
I can attest to the inferiority complex.For context, I come from a relatively good sec schl, and im in the triple pure class and was VERY elitist. My cca junior is in the NT stream. She was very cold and overall was a tough nut to crack. Eventually we became close and it really opened my eyes. She constantly puts herself down, saying that shes slow and will not be able to,for example, play a piece as well as i do. She wld constantly call me smart etc while degrading herself.It really broke my heart to know that she sees herself as inferior due to our stream differences ;-; In many cases, people from other streams may find themselves useless and "untalented" all because they cant grasp acedemic subjs all well as others. Sometimes,they dont even bother to pursue other talents. And to put simply, this is really fucking shit bc everyones good at differenr things.
My exact situation and you've expressed my thoughts clearly.
This has been happening all along. I'm 31 now and still feel the effects of education that I've gone through. Worst of all, this is happening in the society and will continue to do so.
Back in the school days, I was bullied and locked in the metal cabinets, they shredded my exercise books, flushed down my stationery, pulled my seat...all these were done by my own classmates who saw me as "weird" just because I didn't come from the same affiliated primary school as them. My teachers and parents didn't bother. They told me to handle this by myself..at age 13.
Fast forward to adulthood, I applied to MOE 12 times, and not once I got an interview or even a call. I resigned to fate that perhaps that wasn't my path. I tried applying to other jobs recently and got back with, "you're too independent", "you don't have this skill", "you should be more prepared"...you are this and that.
I'm done. So done to the point that I've been a private educator for a decade now, specialising in helping students from lower-income/difficult family backgrounds/delinquents/drops outs/students from all walks of life that need a guiding light.
Yes, I don't earn as much as other tutors but at least I get to help save a child/youth's sanity. 🙏🏻
Ps. A couple of years back, I had to deal with the loss of an ex-student that I used to know to depression and suicide. It was a horrible ordeal. I'm trying my best to help as many youngsters as I can. ✊🏻
estella2lenne Thank you!! ❤️❤️
Hi similar plight here. I was bullied during my primary and secondary school years because I was chubby and quiet. When I scored the highest mark for one of the tests, a group of my jealous classmates plan to dump water into my bag during recess. Sometimes I would come to class without a chair because they would hide it. No one else even bothered to help because they don't want to get involved and get bullied as well. The teachers were helpless and the school didn't care. Fast forward 10 years and I still remember those horrible moments, tried to forget them but once in a while it will come back. I hope those who made me suffer will get their karma back.
@@angelinelim4219 You're welcome! ❤️
@@BBQJester I hope life is better for you now! As long as we don't give up, we can shape our lives the way we want it to be. 🤗
Glad that u are willing to serve and help out the less fortunate.
Let me tell my life story, When I was in P6 , my form teacher told my dad that she would be surprised if I even passed my PSLE. This broke his heart and my moms heart. In the end I passed and ended up in normal academic. I then when to my secondary school felling happy that i passed my PSLE but sad that I was in Normal Academic. There I was looked down by pretty much all the Express student and at times even the teachers who would pretty much say that our best bet to be happy is to know what we are capable of and at times would skip certain chapters in subjects thought to the express student by stating that it was too much for us. I eventually started to study harder so that i can join the express stream which i eventually did and passed my O levels with average marks. I then went to MI and at the end of the 3 years failed my A levels. Then came along NS where I was in a vocation where i was able to book out everyday, i took that chance and rewrote my A levels. This time i passed with flying colors. But local universities refused accept me because I took my A levels twice. My family was not well off but my parents wanted me to have a stable future and I eventually ended up applying to a couple of American universities which had good ranking and got accepted there with scholarship. Today I am in the 3rd year of my university in America doing a double degree and looking back I would say that Singapore education system really needs to give people another chance. Why is there such an exam as PSLE which would deprive a child from his/her childhood at such a young age ? why must there be such a divide when it comes to education ? Singapore needs to learn that not every child will function the same way, every child is different and we need to have a approach where a child's talents is noticed more than their grades, we cannot classify them as low class, medium class or high class because at the end of the day its about doing what you love in this life and life is not all about earning money and prestige.
Spot Light Well said. thank you for sharing your story and good luck in the future!
@@asleep3132 True words
Thanks for sharing your story! Also the NA syllabus for upper sec they would usually skip it for people to prepare for their NA "N" level. After this then they would go back to teach those subjects for "O" level preparation
While Express and IP students should not be rolling their eyes and actively offending those from lower streams, they cannot be blamed for making them uncomfortable just by speaking better English because it’s not their fault and it’s not even a fault to begin with. Maybe all of this can also be linked back to obsession over grades. I envied many Normal stream students because they were much better at sports and music than I was.
Sports and CCA can help to mix the different streams together but this definitely will not happen in schools that do not have Normal streams. Being from a neighbourhood school I actually had many friends from the Normal stream.
And it kinda sucks that the girl was mocked for being in Normal Acad in Sec 1 because I had a classmate who got promoted into Express in Sec 2 after doing well in NA in Sec 1.
Sometimes the real problem is feeling inferior, even if people who are better than us are not comparing us to them or anything. We tend to shoot ourselves down and those with lower SES will get discouraged and be stuck in “poverty cycle”. They need to be empowered by knowing that they have real strengths that do not need to be academic-related.
I completely agree! While there are those who are definitely nasty out there I feel like in most neighbourhood schools where there are all three streams no one really looks down on each other, albeit a small percentage who had been influenced by an elitist mentality. A lot of the students especially when incited by peers have a victim mentality as well. When someone is placed in a lower stream they feel personally attacked by something two people had no control over in the situation. For example when they've experienced something that had been a slight miscommunication with a person of the express stream. The one from the lower stream may feel like the cause was directly linked to his stream. Just because he was insecure about his academic stream.
Question the system.
@@jamjamjam13 Not in my neighbourhood school.People just dont care people in other streams.
1970s when my mother was in her secondary school, the school headmistress assigned every top senior student to teach & guide lower grade junior students...... this acts benefited both group of students a lot
To the strong ---- learned to be humble, sympathy and compassion
To the weak --- learned to be strong in academics and self-confidence
xPhoenomenon try speak a bit more casual in social setting lah not everything is an oral exam
I can't be the only one who feels sympathetic towards all of the individuals represented in this video (including the "Integrated Program" students) for the unwarranted attention, hate comments, unasked for sympathy etc. received for simply sharing their views. Class difference is to be expected where the education system categorises students based on their learning capabilities. Class difference is also the norm worldwide - the real issue is the extent to which it can be mitigated (and the right people to pin the blame on would be the government, for the institutions and processes it has put in place). Judging from the comments section, it appears that most Singaporeans expect these students to speak in the desired politically correct manner (or shut up) as opposed to being realistic about the situation. It is easy to suggest, with hindsight, what Maniyar should have said and the words she could have avoided (e.g. "lower streams", "normal" neighbourhood school etc.) but her intentions were clearly not to discredit or demean the NA and NT students. To the contrary, she did have their interests in mind when she suggested that mixed class suggestions would not be viable and in my opinion, she did raise very relevant points. She could have chose not to say anything for fear of coming across as judgmental or pessimistic, but she chose to be realistic and there is no reason for her to be discredited or shamed.
You'd be lying if, in your subconscious mind, you did not associate the NT and NA streams as being "lower" than the Express/IP streams. The fact of the matter is that these streams differ in their learning capabilities, curriculum and opportunities presented, when compared to the Express/IP streams. But that is not to say that NT/NA students are less capable than their peers in the Express stream and most of us do acknowledge this fact. There are countless students who find themselves picking up the pace academically later on in life or venture into non-academic ventures which end up being far more profitable and value-adding than the professions Express students sort themselves into. But there should not be anything wrong with acknowledging that the system itself categorises the Express/IP streams as being above the NA/NT streams. Ultimately, using the word "lower" does not necessarily imply that students from NA/NT streams are inferior - it is simply an acknowledgement that the system is designed as such. Sure, Maniyar could have rephrased her words considering that NA/NT students were sitting next to her and may have perceived her intentions differently, but unlike the rest of us, she does not have the benefit of hindsight. I don't believe her words are a reflection of her perception of NA/NT students. The fact that referred to neighbourhood schools as "normal" would also technically imply that she acknowledges IP schools as being "abnormal" or special, which is essentially the truth. Most of us would have had the opportunity to interact with students of different streams, but not those in IP schools. These are all neutral words that Singaporeans appear to view as demeaning, which is confusing. I'm not sure if this is Maniyar's or Singaporeans' fault.
Both Nadiy and Sufa acknowledged that their learning curve is far steeper and that they would require assistance from the students of the Express/IP stream to cope in a mixed class. They also referred to themselves as not having "good characteristics" and creating chaos, which distinguishes them from Express/IP students. They also referred to Express/IP students as being "neat" and "quiet." Quite obviously, all of these are generalisations. But all generalisations have a basis, even if exaggerated. In fact, when Nadiy said that he creates chaos, he was not generalising. Bottomline is, at least on a general level, differences exist which make it difficult for students to be on the same wavelength and "click" with one another. But at the end of the day, it is possible but no friendship is a 1 way street. The NA/NT students must also be more receptive to interacting with Express/IP students. It is clear from the discussion that the NA/NT students did not want to interact with their peers from other streams as well. To unfairly pin the blame on the Express/IP students simply because they are advantaged is equally problematic.
At the end of the day, streaming is in itself not a bad thing. The purpose of streaming is to categorise students based on learning abilities. In such situations, students can develop their fuller potential at a healthy pace as opposed to constantly feeling pressured and intimidated by their classmates. I believe this rationale was highlighted later on in the documentary as well. Also, I don't think being in NA/NT has anything to do with English proficiency and the documentary is not an accurate reflection of the proficiency of students across streams.
It is easy to bin the blame on Express/IP students as being "elitist" for shedding light on reality and sympathising with NA/NT students by virtue of their position. But the institutions and processes in place are to blame for the widening class divide. There are many opportunities presented for students of different streams to interact be it through inter-class sports competitions, festivities, celebrations, CCAs, enrichment programs etc. but the reality, as pointed out by Maniyar, is that students from IP streams are not provided with such opportunities because their schools do not have NA/NT streams. This must be changed, obviously.
To be "elitist" is to treat others as if they were unworthy of attention because you are superior to them. None of the students did this. They merely acknowledged the fact that students of different streams have different learning capabilities and there was some suggestion (by the non-IP students) that there may be differences in attitude towards academics that may make cross interactions difficult. Not once did any of them say they were better than the others or that they were deserving of better treatment etc. Sometimes, if we are too politically correct or expect equal treatment for everyone, it will end up being more damaging. This is not "elitist", its about being practical.
Nicely phrased!
Yj y So true, Just Stan phrased his points very well. I’ve seen too many comments painting Maniyar in such a negative way, it’s upsetting. People need to drop their pitchforks lol
I agree with your comment on the basis that we shouldn't penalize or condemn the message they put across; I actually commend them for being frank and forward on their perspectives of class in ther own words
What I disagree though is that streaming is essential, unless there is a guarantee that it can be undo to the individual later.
Especially for the NT stream it can't be that because certain subjects are not offered to them in their secondary school term then these individuals cannot get into certain courses or career paths as adults, yes?
Well said!
Thanks for your comment. I don't think streaming is meant to be undone. I believe the curriculum is designed to accommodate a slower pace and technically, one way to do that would be to reduce the number of subjects offered and to streamline the content. In any case, the purpose of streaming is to place students on different pathways and unless I'm mistaken, there is an option for NA/NT students to jump across streams (while in secondary school) provided they have performed well academically - this makes sense since they'd have proven themselves to be capable of the enhanced academic rigour. I also don't believe that most skills necessary for the workforce are acquired at the secondary school level. There are numerous opportunities beyond secondary school for students to cultivate very relevant skills - such as ITE/Nitec/Poly for the NA/NT students or external tuition programs, should they wish to challenge themselves academically.
A quick online search shows that the Normal curriculum is intended to prepare students for vocational education. The assumption then is that students who perform less well than their peers academically would be less likely to want or be able to enter university, but rather cultivate work specific skills that would allow them to better find their footing in the world. ITE/Nitec and Polytechnics generally prepare students for work life whereas JCs prepare students for university. But that is not to say that individuals from the NT stream should not be able to enter university. Streaming still allows for it. NT students can either attempt to jump to the NA stream and then move on to JC/Poly or alternatively, they could enrol at ITE/Nitec and if they've done well, move on to a JC. I believe all of this has happened before. Ultimately, it is not a matter of opportunities but a matter of time.
Can we get a full version of the focus group discussion without edits? I’m sure the FGD was definitely longer than that and that some parts were probably edited out. We need to hear the full account from both sides
Yes please!
Ikr! And they can deliberately edit this to make the ip or express students look bad to create discord
Being from the IP stream, I feel bad listening about how the girl was looked down upon for being in NA when she entered in secondary 1. But to give my own side of the story, when I entered IP, I received hate from schoolmates who were in the express stream, but not the IP stream, for being so “smart”. They refused to talk to me for being “smarter” than them, giving me hate just because I was in a different stream from them. So I believe class division has gone both ways, there are also those who are jealous and let the jealously get in the way of relationships with those from another stream.
While thats IP vs express and that makes sense really.Cause express is like the standard so express people think of IP people badly as "too smart" makes sense.But express vs NA or NT is different cause again,express is the standard so they look at NA and NT people like their just stupid.
What the shit? What school did you go to? I go to a school with only ip and express too and this sounds unlike anything I’ve ever seen?
@@whaatt6791 lol you are aware that your school is not the only one with IP and express? Just because your school don't have doesn't mean other school also don't have. You should go cedar and see those awful IP students
@@kayleignhtan4849 I was just speaking from my personal experience, I don't know about other schools though
that’s the gep, we don’t rlly mix with the foundation classes because we are “too smart” not because we think that they are not our level. besides, I always got used by the mainstream classes(non gep classes) and they push all the work to us when we do group projects cuz we’re “smart”
btw I’m in ip now and we don’t hv this problem , it’s just that express and ip has different classes so we don’t rlly interact with each other (execpt for cca)
Im currently working part time at retails during sch holidays. There's this attitude problem with the rich and poor customers as well. When the wealthier customers come in, they greet us really nicely and become friendly with us, smiling & saying 'thank you' while we r serving them. But when the not so wealthy ones come in, they have got this some kind of attitude showing 'im the customer and you're just a worker you've got to respect me and treat me very nicely'.
One customer especially shocked me, she babied her 30 years old daughter so much and said some nasty things to me. The next day i saw her driving some 30 years old Toyota car. 😒
I want to say, the wealthy are nice as well. They have this realisation that you don't have to flaunt your wealth using materialistic things or show your attitude towards others to let them know you're rich. They know a good personality will reflect their character and well manners will speak of them. On the other hand, the poorer try very much to act like they are rich but their attitude spoke true of them, with such low class behaviour & language.
Of course this doesnt apply to all the rich and poor. But this is just what I've experienced so far.
the extra luscious Guanlin's lips
banana monkey allergy totally agree with you on the experience of customers as a retail part time- same for me as well! Shocking to me at first!
banana monkey allergy it’s true of what u mentioned in the service industry. Wealth is just a norm to these people. So they don’t see anything special about it. Nevertheless, there are still rotten apples everywhere.
How bout do an interview with the same race across different streams. Results would be more reliable
It will most likely be too long and they might need to cut alot in order to fit into more sizable video like this.
Niqhil Nazri well then people are going to call them out for not interviweing the views of other races
@@philkwek8368 Everything must be multiracial in Singapore
@@Jellygrass I dont think thats a problem, I feel this video is a bit unreliable
@@bryantng5033 no they don't
to be honest that girl with short hair seemed like she was trying the hardest to sound smart while the others who were in express stream didnt
ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 2 trying hardest? She’s using the ‘correct terms’ to not offend others. Her choice of words show her maturity, commendable for her age.
@Lee Jie YuHave IQ, lack EQ. enuf said
yeah she is totally the kind who would insult NA NT. But coat that shit in a 'nice' way
Angelia Teh like the whole of hwa Chong China school lol
Lee Jie Yu got a lot to say when it’s an indian uh, check your own self and people la bitch
I’m in NA stream taking O level this year..and as I was reading the comments I saw a lot of people saying that they barely talk to people from other streams..and I have to say that the school also plays a part to actually make it better.. Even though I’m in NA my class is very close to one of the express streams because we have PE together.. so it’s not only about the students but the schools could also put in an effort to close the gaps..:-)
Good to hear that! I thought my school was the only one. Express and Normal kids do mingle, at least for my cohort. There definitely were mix-stream cliques. The atmosphere was generally friendly even though we didn't even have inter-stream lessons back in those days.
Indeed, my Bartley Secondary School had made zero effort in trying to close that gap. Furthermore, I still remember the principal at that time keeping giving the Express students all the projects and opportunities to make the school proud. The principal kept stereotyping the NT students and didn't treat NT students with proper respect.
the 15-17 interviewees could’ve been more diverse and less stereotypical to be honest... the whole focus of the video just seemed to shift away from class differences but towards some other issue altogether.
Is it that hard to get a Malay from Express/IP school? I'm sure he/she can give another perspective...Man i cried watching this.I wish the 2 malay boys and girl NA all the best for your future endeavours!
I am glad that my secondary school people can click well with each other from all 3 streams tbh
that ip girl was so rude. i'm quite speechless watching this video. coming from an express class, i never thought na and nt as anything lower than me. why can't we all just be friends? everyone, regardless of what stream you're from, is the same at the end of the day. i hate how she mentioned that they might pull down their class and give up. that's a wrong misconception of na/nt students. there are many students in my school from na/nt that are really hardworking and achieve even higher grades than me. we're all striving to be the best, but we need to see the bigger picture. helping each other so that we can achieve bigger things together. i think it'll work out putting all of the streams together. we can help each other in our different ways and it'll be pretty fun, i think. i really hope there would be less hate in the future. put aside our differences, and focus on our similarities. smh. that girl is so selfish for saying that. but then again, i hope she'll learn that helping others brings a lot more than just pushing others so that you'll succeed.
exactly
Yea I felt she was pretty insensitive when she referred to express and IP streams as “higher streams” and NA and NT as “lower streams”. Really shows the inherent biasedness with which she views people judging from the academic stream they are in
Do they not teach morals education anymore cause I feel there’s a pressing need for it in the IP schools. tbh many of successful people out there weren’t exactly very academically strong, they have other talents which they just haven’t explored yet at their age. I know many friends who are have masters and they didn’t do well enough in their PSLE to get into express/IP streams. It really just shows don’t ever judge a book by it’s cover.
its just her opinion chill the fuck out. she may not have the most ideal solution but she definitely did not have any malicious intent and there is nothing rude about countering the idea that we should have a combined class
Macobsession100 yo fam and this is just my opinion chill out
I am from express stream. Its either A/ Distinction or 10 strokes of the holy cane.
I can totally relate with the "good English" part. I'm thankful that I have majority of friends that speaks in a way like I do(ultimate singlish). For this I find that we just need to adapt accordingly.
It is very sad to see these teenagers who are not yet in the society, not even willing to mix in the same class with those not in their same stream. Why need to say normal stream is lower stream? How are they going to lead when they work with different people of different background when they start work? Express or IP are just a bunch of people who did well academically but it doesn’t mean they can work better. I think a part of their problem comes from family upbringing.
Once they come out to work, EQ and your nice personality are more valued than whether you were an IP student or not
Grades is one thing but being successful requires EQ and your character too!
They'll very likely be working in completely different fields, with their career paths hardly crossing. That is unfortunately the reality of it.
“Lower streams”, good luck trying to pursue a political career in foreign affairs with that kind of diction.
Tian Ning even express stream students may feel nervous in front of a camera, so their diction may not seem good
@@Authur2828You clearly did not learn anything from this video.
Is she wrong? So if they’re not lower streams, what are they? Higher?
Facts are facts, it’s what you do with those facts that reveal how you actually think. Seems you’re the elitist lol
Okay why can't they interview Malay students who are actually in the Express streams? This is just not identifying class. This is borderline racism. It's trying to show that Malays can't study, can't speak proper English, can't make friends, and basically can't make it. I am Malay. I come from a middle class family. I was from the Express stream. And I made an effort to be friends with other races in the other streams. And some became lifelong friends. So no. This video does not do anything justice. Just look at the humongous gap (be it socially, financially, academically) between those students! Bias-ness at its best.
in no way was the focus of the video put on the issue of race, why drag race into this? the students most likely have been randomly selected with no ill intent.
what you have just said has no basis and nothing to back it up, think before you comment next time and by the way i graduated from normal technical stream.
They should at least be fair with the "random selection" of the interviewees. Is it hard to find a Malay in the IP programme, is it hard to find a Chinese from normal tech? no. What they are trying to paint is that the Malays represent the normal technical stream and there are no Malays in other streams. If you read the comments at their FB page, you will see many people having issues with the race selection of this interview.
IRONIC. You only made friends with other Malays but not with other ethnic, can I say that it is borderline racism too?
@Nurhunneys, you say that they should randomly select interviewees while you want to have a Malay interviewee from IP programme and a Chinese from Normal Tech. Look at that blatant hypocrisy.
This isn't unique to just Singapore. I'm sure if you segregate students based on academic ability into vastly different educational routes with different activities and teaching styles, cultural and behavourial gaps will appear. A lack of interaction between groups of people will naturally cause people to rely more heavily on stereotypes and view each other with more uncertainty which creates social friction.
In regards to self esteem however, many East Asian countries pride themselves in the fact that relying on one's hardwork and effort can allow anyone to scale the ladder of society. While it is true that academic ability does not reflect on one's self worth, tying academics and moral values together makes people of "lower class" feel that they are less exemplary figures of society as they supposedly made a subconscious decision to be in a lower class due to lack of dilligence, etc.
All this translates into a self reinforcing and vicious cycle, where the lower class and their future generations have less opportunities, aim low and achieve low, while the upper class maintains the opposite.
Casey McKinky it's not true. I am a Chinese now studying in EU. I found kids here are not descrimated or bullied upon on the basis of their academic performance. I suppose this is because the income gap is not that big here. U can be poor or disabled, but everyone around U still treats U with dignity. Of course, there are still kids being bullied becuase they are overweight. But that's another story.
Can i just point out that lots of editing went on behind to contrast two opposing viewpoints tgt? So yea consider how much could be out of context. I understand where the narration comes from but upon such contentioud issue, its disappointing that cna buys into the crowd pleasing narration. They should show how things swing both sides too so yea kinda unreliable
Many "parachute kids" here in So Cal actually cheat their way through school (high school and college) to satisfy their absentee parents. I've seen parachute kids live in million dollar homes with no parents around. During high school, my son would tell me these kids trying to pay for school lunches with hundred dollar bills. When it comes down to proving themselves in the real world, of course they fail. It's sort of sad that is the way of some Asian parents. Yes, I'm Asian. I gave my son the tools to succeed in school but left it to him to pursue whatever he wanted. Today he's a chemist but also a hard core heavy metal guitarist.
Abunai One you are one legendary and great parent sir . Hats off to you .
Gee thanks but I don't think so. My parents worked hard all their lives for the next generation. Although I never graduated from college (my Uncle Sam needed me more) I tried to pass it on so my son had the opportunity at a better life.
I was from the normal academic stream. I took my 1st senior management appointment at the age of 36 at a prestigious international finance firm without family or special connections. I have top students from Raffles and Hwa Chong and graduated Ivy league in my division. Don't look down on others, you never know if they will be your boss or your boss's boss. Also to people who feel they are the underdog, know the world doesn't own you anything so you just got to think and make your own way. If you don't want people to look down on your, keep striving and be confident. Good luck everyone.
Firstly, your background doesn't determine which stream you are placed in. Yes its true that students from wealthier backgrounds tend to be in the better streams, but there are many students from lower income backgrounds in IP and JCs too, so drawing parallels between class differences and education streams is not very accurate and doesn't bring the point of income Inequality across very well.
Secondly, students behave this way because of the over-emphasis on paper qualifications in our country. Higher education is so highly regarded that it has made it so competitive, and parents feel the pressure of it, and pass it down to their children. Yes, it is wrong to discriminate against those of lower academic streams, but can you blame these students for having such mindsets when they are being taught to think this way? The pursuit of education is built upon pressure and competition, fighting to be the best. When a student's self-worth is based on letters on a report book, and which side of the bell curve they are on, educational qualifications will inevitably become a yardstick for one's success.
Alright, however those from a better family background tend to be open to more opportunities to advance their education. Those in IP and express streams may be supplemented with tuition and supplementary classes which are able to further boost the grades of these childrens compared to the children from less wealthy backgrounds who have to compete based on their own academic ability with less or no support from external factors. Even children from wealthy families who didn't do so well, instead of taking ITE, they are open to a whole range of options that the society deems acceptable such as international schools instead of slogging away at a course that heavily depends on physical skills and abilities in ITE as deemed by the stereotypical families.
@@Sean-fb7qi ya some n level students from rich family go overseas to study!
After watching this having abit of mixed feelings about this. I can relate somewhat to the discussion. As myself was from NT stream and being in a School that consists of only one NA and NT with five Express classes. (Disclaimer everyone views are a bit different. Just sharing mine) I find that this current system of segregating students is an efficient way to teach but it makes a unforeseen problem by dividing the students mentally by giving them the mindset of them being better then others. Another problem from what I see is the job requirements minimum for a fair amount are looking for Poly certs. For the Express students they should not have any issues with this but for the N stream it costs us even more years to reach their standards. Felt like the system from the beginning was always gonna be tougher on the N stream no matter what.
Though people will notice that both malay students are from NT stream but their is also a chinese student in NA stream. And this interview is done with N stream in mind not NT and NA
What a fucking mad lad!
Macobsession100 what do you mean?
Well done CNA!! (sarcasm) What a skewed survey/discussion this was. You can’t possibly find ONE Malay from the Express stream? The different streams will mingle during CCAs right? Or they’re now separated by streams? (as per the Indian “elitist” in the video) To the Indian girl, always remember this, what you have today, you might not have tomorrow. Don’t be too arrogant.
how is she being arrogant? your defeatist attitude and insecurity might make you see that.
Crusch Karsten Defeatist attitude and insecurity? Don’t talk like you know me. Stick to the topic, don’t make yourself look stupid. Look at her again in the video. The whole group was so uncomfortable, to the point of almost cringing when she talk. It’s like she needs to prove her worth, being a minority. You know, sometimes, we keep our opinions to ourselves. There’s no need to prove you’re the one with the best English or so called academically strongest in this group. But the Indian girl did just that. She’s got zero emotional intelligence. She’s probably not even smarter than most in the group. She portray as so, thinking others will perceive as so.
Uncomfortable? Who the hell would be comfortable talking in this situation? A psychopath probably would. Both parties would definitely refrain from making any careless comments due to there being a chance someone taking offense to that. It really isn't convincing that you don't have a defeatist attitude when the only 'proof' you got of her being an elitist is the way she speaks. The FUCK did you expect her to say? What TONE did you expect her to use? She was given a platform to provide a proper opinion likewise the others, and that's what they ALL did.
Can you honestly not see how hypocritical this shit is? She was obviously uncomfortable, the other kids were also uncomfortable. When the NT kid suggested that everyone being in the same class would being in cohesiveness do you honestly think that is a good idea? You didn't even BOTHER listening to what she had said. Do you honestly think people are going to 'teach' one another? do you honestly believe putting 'weaker' students in a class going at mach speed past their learning capabilities, would provide any benefits for them? Answer to all these questions are 'NO' BTW, just in case you haven't gotten a clear picture.
@@Cuhsidy This has nothing to do with race. Irrelevant to this other than to reassure your insecurities.
@Indigo blue U replied to the wrong person
I think Singapore is a good place for social observings, especially in terms of housing policy, education, economic, urban planning.
As someone from the express stream, I feel a bit guilty of what those from N(A) and N(T) say, honestly I don't really look down on people but once they do something like having poor attitude, it makes me want to say that that is why their in express, but usually I just don't say(I already have no friends) but seriously, it's about time you get hold of your life, at least try. Though I admit, some people have really good qualities and they come from N stream
Ong Jun Quan true...sometimes I can hear the noise the N classes make even from 7 classrooms away. Even the guy in the video admits they create chaos...I wonder why though
Daily life. Even for the highly intelligent in the lower economic classes most things they do well will go on unrecognized, not understood and can even be single out for ostracization and bullying. The currency there is attention, entertainment and intimidation, someone is quiet and they'll project on that person cowardice, aloofness or contempt, on the other end behavior of the lower classes is seen as aggression, lack of discipline and disrespect.
Division is good, let scientists become scientists and mechanics become mechanics, later in life the scientists relax a bit and the mechanics mellow out. If too many are barred from their potential in the name of conformity and acceptance, society as a whole loses. Accept that people are different, live differently and make choices for their own well being.
Hard work. It’s the thing aside from education to rise above your current economic status.
Such scenarios are prevalent in my NS experience as well. People of similar educational background stick together and some are reluctant to hangout with JC kids because there are 'english speakers' & 'nerds'.
My brother is currently in 4th Singapore Infantry Regiment.His platoon is mixed with JC & ITE kids.Context:my family is malay.His bunk roommates is split with jc and ITE.Yeah sure,he told me majority of the ITE kids are able to clique very well with the JC kids.Though this is possible depending on the type of people you meet in ur NS.If not,friendships will not happen.Yeah they are friends but wait, my bro said some of them do things out of impulse and create unnecessary punishments for the whole platoon.Sometimes anger management is an issue e.g. shouting when disagreeing with Sergeants.Do note these are all based on my brother's personal experience.He ended off by saying,we are all the same.The only thing that is different is their attitude.Sure,some parents may fail to raise their children well but at the end of the day it is up to them to figure out what's right and wrong.Also,my brother has not YET seen an elitist from the JC batch he's mixed in.PS:One of his army mate is from RI-a malay.He was angry with the pathetic representation of Malays in Singapore...60 out of a thousand...
I would also like to highlight that being able to make friends from other streams really depends on what type of person you are.My bro is shy and does not like to make the 1st friendly gesture.I'm the opposite.I like to make friends no matter what background.Only then after becoming friends,you'll be able to know more about them...why they are like this and that...Tolerance is one thing but being the friends is another.
I am a biracial male, I look Malay. I have a Malay and Chinese surname, Chinese in IC as well. As far back as 2010, I still get remarks like "eh u malay boy go university for what?". TBH, i get it from both sides, because of this rift between classes and ultimately ethnicities, and don't really feel like I fit in with either. Eventually, I graduated with first class honours, as an academic scholar. But i still have to code-switch today in various situations to dumb myself down or elevate myself aka speaking better to navigate social/formal settings. My heart goes out to the two Malay boys who are ostracised by higher performing peers. It is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Tbh the internet also plays a great role in it, it has made it easier to communicated but in a way, it's created a sense of richness and popularity.
It’s rather appalling how speaking good english automatically means that you are affluent or better off. I have friends from the better express class, and their english is definitely not what people would expect them to speak like. Definitely shocking. Speaking good english or being good at a particular language is never a measure of wealth
No offense but I feel that the way u speak says alot about someone. So its true to a LARGE extent. Btw, I am from a NEIGHBOURHOOD sec sch and average jc. Here it goes.
1. In my sec sch, those who did well academically r mostly those who spoke proper english, rarely speak singlish, speak little vulgarities and are from good fam backgrd vs the students who always score poor results/not as acad inclined they speak alot of singlish, rarely speak proper english and their vulgarities are just overwhelming... And alot of them r from average to poor fam backgrd. I entered sec sch speaking proper english bc I wanted to improve english due to coming from a chinese speaking family, only for me and a few of my friends to get LOOKED DOWN UPON for SPEAKING GOOD ENGLISH... (Like WTF?!) People literally said we tryna "fake amgmoh". So we adjusted ourselves, spoke lots of singlish and bad english and my english standard dropped.
2. In jc, those who spoke eloquently are mostly from the good/better sec schs and mixing with them actually improved my english bc it forced me to work harder to increase my language ability. In a way, I was ashamed to use so much broken english back then in sec sch.
3. Another starking difference, most of the pple in my sec sch live in nearby hdbs, quite alot of students on fas but when it comes to jc, most of them r rich (condo or landed) and come in all express schs, very little students on fas.
So as much as u try to be politically correct, the difference is still there. Just walk into a top/better sch vs neighbourhood sec sch and u shall see the HUGE difference. Even my relatives I see that.
@@shuying8499 People are weird, they dislike and bully people who are different from them.
I went through all this in my school , college & higher studies : A vs B Division , Convent Educated vs Vernacular Medium , Science Vs Arts , City vs Rural Bred . Battle lines are still distinctly drawn even after several decades & in different country .
wow.. this video is so emotional to watch..
Try to spread the word about class differences, yet couldnt even get one malay student from IP stream?
you confuse class with race?
Or even in Express...quite disappointing tbh.Malays in express and malays NA/NT have two different perspectives of the class divide...I know because im from Express and friends from NA/NT
Well it is hard to mingle with rich kids because they go to different social events that poor kids need to save money for a long time to just attend to one. They also have different clothings, bags, games, entertainments of which the poor kids would be struggling in making conversation about. The expectations of their parents are different and it is hard for poor kids to see that their parents would not support them to chase their dreams financially while others get it easy with the facilities provided by the rich parents. Envy and inferiority are hard to be fought because we are fighting with our own selves. I was once struggling to participate in a rich kids' school--not academically but lifestyle-wise. They always had new things every week with insane prices and they showed them off while I was begging my parents to buy me the cheapest bag from a certain brand just not to be seen as different.
thats dangerous chief
Coming from an autonomous school that only offers express stream, I can confidently say that majority of the students have little connection with students from Normal Academic and Normal Technical streams.
We interact more with higher express students as mentioned in the video which actually induces us to feel discriminated, while we don’t discriminate against any other streams.
The fastest way to integrate is to pit all from different streams into a situation where all are on the same even line such as charity work, national education, etc.
You cannot force education systems together considering the deep-seated issues Singapore has but you can venture to create useful collaborations in meaningful work.
well being an express student, i believe the majority of my friends dont look down on na and nt students
instead, na and nt students in my school look down on express students and bully us thinking that we’re “nerds” or take our studies too seriously. this happens so frequently causing most express students to feel scared to talk or even look at them
Because of this complex structures some people who are not confident enough tend to lose their confidence more. I have this colleague, he never wanted pursue neither poly nor uni just because he thinks he can't but I observed he is really dedicated to his task and do well. During casual convo he is very smart, he actually contributes more action plans vs those who finished their studies so I tried to go deeper and try to understand why, he actually is suffering from depression and the way he tell his story its seems that all boils down to lack of moral support. A lot may think that its not as simple as that but that's what I see most often. A little push and support can mean a lot.
i was from a neighbourhood school in the express stream but i never once thought i was better than my friends from the other streams. I made and have so many close friends from the other streams especially after leaving secondary school. It really doesnt matter, as long as you decide to work hard and do your best, when you start working nobody even cares what stream you are.
it's kinda clear that they picked the best students from ip. i can't speak for normal streams but i doubt everyone is failing. i'm from ip and i've failed my subjects so many times that at this point i just want to graduate. i've never met the passing requirements a single year of secondary school. i'd be happy to get a degree and a job that let me support myself. i know that girl from ip. there's no way she represents the majority of us. she was a political actor at the model united nations i went to and an incredibly good speaker. i stuttered my way through whatever talking i couldn't get out of my entire time there. there's definitely a class issue but don't make it seem like these few people represent everyone's experiences cause i seriously doubt it.
Hi, I’m an express student, 17 years of age, introverted male of a middle SES. Watching this video gave me a greater perspective on how the social hierarchy between students of different streams work. I certainly would not take this case/interview as the baseline perspective for all students and how they feel as each person has different viewpoints and experiences. However this video is still very informative in my opinion and it does highlight the ugly side of the streaming system and it is indicative of the “herd mentality” shown in humans as a species when put in scenarios like these.
In my experience, I naturally hang out with express students and my mates as we spend a lot of time together as we take similar subjects and due to the fact that express classes are normally placed beside each other (sections if you will). I never regarded the NA/NT students as dumb or idiots, just slower to absorb information or not cut out for this education system. I do not have close friends from those streams as you would expect as their classes are in a separate section of the compound. The times I did interact with them however are mostly pleasant and I did not mind the difference in the way we spoke. Overall, I thought that the NA/NT students are as I stated above and I tried not to offend any of them as they are just different due to the environments they were raised or put in.
i personally agree. while i obviously disagree (and condone) and bullying/teasing/looking down on NA/NT students, i agree that we should not put everyone in the same class. if you're saying that NA/NT students can "improve" by being in the same class as Express students, with Express students teaching NA/Nt students, are you not then implying that extra time was used on NA/NT students? One example (from me personally). I joined a tuition class where it was mostly made up of NA/Express students and it was slow (to me) and didnt help me improve my grades. Moved to another tuition centre where most students are primarily from my stream/school. I found the lessons actually helpful.
As for the comments on speaking differently. I don't see why Express students have to change the way they speak just because of other peoples' inferiority complex? If its in a business context and you wanna use more chim words and a more formal tone, I understand but why would someone need to go to that extent and pretend to not know a language well so you dont feel bad?
I'm curious about other peoples' opinions on this matter.
It's the way the two division of people behaves that lead to the idea of whose better and whose not. While I'm not saying that everyone of the Express stream is better in how we Express ourself be it words or behaviour, it's difficult to find the similar trait of behavior in how one show themself in public which lead to the discretion in the normal stream. After all, it will still lead back to how we were brought up which our behaviors and attitude will affect our own future. Hence if one wants to solve this problem. I would say it's impossible because we are all humans. And we would want the best for ourself.
And I really agree with yr opinion
I agree. While in theory, mixing NA, NT and express gives a common space where they can interact and subvert stereotypes, it may not help at all.
From what ive experienced, even in express streams there's segregation into cliques because of different interests, personalities and attitudes.
But i think its at least worth the try to mix different streams.
I think there's some EQ(skill) to being able to adapt to who you're talking to since the ultimate goal is to communicate. I guess you're right to say that it should not be expected, but if one can make the effort to adapt, why not?
Also, where was her empathy while speaking about them in front of them? I really disliked the language she used to describe them and she definitely came off as snobbish.
PS: I was an IP student who ended up going to an Arts College in SG where I was finally given the opportunity to actually mingle with people outside of the my IP bubble. I genuinely believe that no one is "lower" than anybody else and everyone has something to offer.
I was from the NA stream in sec 1 & 2 but later in sec 3 & 4 I was in the Express stream. I was discriminated in both streams by the same people, the Express stream, well, not all of them. Not speaking of which stream I was from, but which school i was from. I was in an elite primary school, did not do well for the PSLE, then went to a neighborhood school. When i went back to visit some teachers in the primary sch, I was discriminated by comments like "eww, that school isn't good", " that school is where failures go to" so on and so forth, right in my face from the teachers. This shows that the separation of academic is already that wide since primary school.
Next, being in both streams, I was discriminated and looked down being in both stream. While being in the NA stream, both the teachers and Express students discriminate us, saying that, "obviously the Express classes, behave and score better than you" or even "because of your PSLE scores, that's why you guys are in NT/NA". These comments are made by some teachers and not students but that does not mean the some students would not do the same. There are always comparisons being made. Some say it is to motivate us but do they even think that those comments are degrading or demotivating us,? saying that we will never be like them.
So, being in the Express stream, i was discriminated too. Comments like "screw that NA girl", "NA will forever be NA", these comments were being eavesdropped by myself or friends from the Express stream. There's a syllabus gap between two streams so of course, i had difficulties trying to cope. There are people that are willing to help me and there are people that did not. Some people told straight into my face "there's no point teaching you because you are stupid" etc. (somehow like what the girl from the NA stream mentioned).
Some people, treat you according to your grades. When i was ranked as the top 20% in the Express stream in the first semester of sec 3. people that discriminated me, started to treat me differently, they started being friendly to me and all. They started to compare me to themselves. They compared my D&T journal to theirs, behind my back. I went to the toilet during the lesson and left my journal on the table, when i was back, many crowded around my table, i went closer and saw them copying and comparing my work.
Four years past, 2 years in NA and 2 years in Express. Despite being discriminated, I scored single digit for O levels. Those comments did not completely bring me down, but it did demotivate me at times. Those grades that are achieved are not achieved solely based on my effort, people around helped me, teachers and friends from both streams. And I disagree with what the short hair girl mentioned, saying that all streams could not be together, NT/NA students will "completely give up". My friends from the Express helped me greatly throughout. It is just the mindset you have, trying or not even bothered to try. This discrimination and the "look down" is brought upon when we were young, by parents and teachers.
Felt that she was careful in her choice of words as not to offend anyone, you can't just assume she was trying to act all high and mighty
Im was in the express stream in my above average secondary school and tbh even though I was in the express stream, my class was not the typicaly express stream class. We were marked as the 'bottom' of the express stream and I think we played even harder than the NA classes. But it was also our class which broke record for having the best O level results for english among the entire cohort. So what Im trying to say is, the chaos students create is not the issue. The main idea in those 4 years, I barely had the chance to interact with kids from other streams. Even our cohort activities, our career talks were seperated according to streams. Parents relatives and sometimes even teachers would tell us not to mix with those people as we are going to have very different lives in the future. I dont understand. Why are we judging people like that?
I personally liked the video. It represented the reality that I at least lived in when I was in secondary school (NA) in Singapore. I remember times when walking past the hallways my friends and I would feel stares of pity or even academic disgust. I mean obviously not all of the express students were like that but we did feel quite belittled for the most part. All I want to say is that if you’re a student in NT or NA or whatever the hell, you are so much smarter than you think. Don’t let this system of streaming determine your wisdom because if you let it take over your esteem, it will shape your future. Just know that you are so much smarter than you think (knowing of course that this wisdom will only come from hard work on your part). I learnt this myself when I continued my secondary studies abroad after secondary 2. Gosh being transferred to a new system that doesn’t stream you according to how smart you are, so to speak, made me feel that I could pursue whatever the hell I wanted.
I used to be a failing student during secondary school and I thought I was a failure and education isn’t my forte but I graduated my degree with a first class honours at 22 and now im 23 and im taking my masters.
This means quite a bit to me because for over a year in p1, no one talked to me and I could see that those who were richer,smarter and had better things than me would leave me out. I had some friends who were more well to do then me even though I’m an average singaporean but eventually the difference in many things made the friendship awkward. We have stopped saying hello to each other now.
the girl with the short hair was not wrong, nor was she looking down on anyone. I think she just did not know the right words to use. Grouping everyone together was and never will be a good idea because just like what she said, the NA NT students might not be able to catch up and the Express and IP students will get bored. In the end, most of them will lose motivation in class and no one benefits. She was only being realistic and giving her opinion.
Some students seem to me like they have given up on their dreams and they think themselves stupid because of the discrimination. I have a suggestion to all such student there is no one in this world who will tell you your value. You will have to believe in yourself.
never give up on your dreams and never look down on yourself.
This video is very poorly done. Why can't they have an equal representation of NT people, perhaps one Chinese and one Malay? What are they trying to say by choosing two Malay boys? That Malays can't study?
It would also help to have an equal representation of IP students, perhaps 1 Chinese, 1 Malay and 1 Indian.
Honestly, i know that this is a problem. However, i am in the top 2 classes, there is no top 1 as the best 80 ppl are divided into two classes, and still would love to get along with the other classes. Although i am in the top 2 classes, i am one of the mediocre ppl in the class. But i do not feel left out. My classmates do not bully and instead may even be kinder than usual if they know something is wrong. I would consider myself to be ' rich' as i live in a landed but i try to be as humble as i can be. When i was 7, im 11 now, i invited my friends over for my birthday. They said the house was nice and would love to stay here. I felt very happy but did not tell anyone who did noy come to my birthday about my house. I tried to stay humble and i think that it has done me well as now i have friends with different backgrounds. They make me laugh when i am down too. So be grateful and stay humble💕💕
High class vs low class. Humility vs snobbishness. There are many successful late bloomers out there n some of them are so successful now n employing Express n Uni students.
I think mix class is possible and even beneficial. I was from NA with parents who were hardworking chinese hawker who had really low expectations of me. I didn't knew what was possible until I dated this really richie rich girl who told and show me things that open up my mind to the world of possibilities. It made me work hard and strive to go higher. It helped me become one of the best in my field and the youngest senior management in my company. The rich girl learn to be more street smart and she did play me like a toy : ). The point is, giving people exposure will help everyone, I just think it's good policy and how nature intend to be.
In my school, NA, NT and Express are all in one class. Not for academics, just as a form class. They should implemented that into all schools if they are really completely unwilling to remove these stream things completely.
This is very true. Its happening. I was from the top student class, and all my classmates look down at all the students from other classes. Guessed what? My friends are mostly from the other classes. I wasn't close to those in my class because they are arrogant, selfish, very competitive. While students from other class are kind, friendly and willing to share anything and even knowledge even though they grade aren't good. But I like to hang out with them, because they are not arrogant.
Yup true you know why they are very fun person you will want to hang out with them
hmm they should have added an express student from a neighbourhood school and an express student from a "better known" school. sometimes the standards between both have a huge gap.
The Young generation need to know more about the reality of the world
I have no idea what it’s like interacting with NA and NT students as we only have ip and express in my school so this video really opened my mind
Class difference is essential to be honest to better cater to students with varying learning abilities. As harsh as it may seem, grades are the easiest way to lead a successful life therefore the emphasis on grades in Singapore. Of course, there are prime examples of very successful people who are not as academically inclined and have less qualification becoming very successful, but these only happen in extremely small cases. Grades equate to qualifications which equates to better job prospects in the future. Therefore those in the comments saying that Singapore should not categorise students according to their academic abilities are absolutely wrong. However I feel that students belonging to the (as she put it) 'higher streams' should not look down on those from the 'lower streams' as I believe that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. And although they may not be as successful as you in the future, I believe that we are all human beings and should not be looked down on just solely based on our academic achievements.
A little late but I agree with the ideas of elitism in SG society. It's interesting that people don't look at economic backgrounds as an indicator of class, but it's more of economic background as an indicator of your capabilities.
I'm an IP student studying in one of the best schools in SG. Not going to name names but it's pretty well-known. It's true that there isn't much of interaction between streams. I have three friends total from Express, I don't know anyone from NA or NT. In IP, there's a lot of interaction between IP students from different schools but barely any between streams. It makes me wonder, how come I know more people from, say, Raffles and Nanyang than my own school?
The government likes to say that "every school is a good school" and "all streams are the same" but that's just not true. If it was, then why do students in IP regularly get chances to do attend seminars held by businessmen and politicians, write college-level research papers with the guidance of uni professors, and go on several overseas study trips every year? If it was true wouldn't students in all streams get these oppurtunities?
It's the thing that the government, our teachers, and our parents have been drilling into our heads year after year - education is the indicator of meritocracy. So people in IP and good schools assume that the reason why they are in good schools is because they worked hard and are smart, and by extension that means they also think that people in NA and NT are in those streams because they weren't smart enough and were lazy, not realizing that that too is a type of elitism.
And it feels kind of strange when you talk with your 14 and 15 year old classmates and you're discussing international relations and the slowing economic growth in Singapore, or when half the class aims for Ivy League and Oxbridge, and you know they stand a pretty good chance of getting in. It's not just a far-fetched dream when top students in IP say they want to go to Harvard because *they probably will.*
I don't know. IP, for all its benefits and oppurtunities, has its core failings. We don't have many useful life skills but we never have to worry about whether we'll make it in life because we know we will. But we also have to cope with the stress of being among the top scorers from the top students in the world's top education system. You could have been the best student from your primary school but when you go to IP you're barely standing out. And the stress has caused many students to drop out, but when you drop out of IP you have nothing to fall back on. So there's always the knowledge that failure equals death.
With all that, wouldn't you rather stay in the mainstream?
i dislike that opinion of the IP student who wanted to go to foreign affairs when she grows up, she dismisses the idea of getting all streams together in a class simply of her simplistic thinking that "lower streams" would give up after finding difficult to mix with others, as if they have to cope with others instead of others coming to help them adapt. She wont have a bright future if she thinks this way
Realistically, she isn’t completely wrong. Who’s to say those who understand the topic would 100% help those lacking in their understanding of the lesson? And, if they are indeed slower, it would bring down the progress speed of the whole class, no offence. I’ve seen teachers struggle when teaching the whole class due to the fact that not everyone understand the topic but they still need to finish the syllabus by a deadline. What’s even more ironic is that some of them would say that they understand even though they don’t. And, I don’t want to sound rude or anything but there are some of them who don’t put in as much effort, I’m sorry.🤷🏻♂️ Therefore, I think having these class systems is much more practical(?) and realistic as there would be less gap in terms of speed in a class. As everyone is assigned to different classes filled with students with the same speed. Although I support these class systems, there are some negative effects. SOME teachers would be more biased to the “smarter” classes compared to the “lower” classes. But that’s not the system’s problem. It’s the teachers. Blame the workman, not his tool. It’s the people’s mindset that needs to be changed, not the class systems.
i’m an express student from a school that isn’t considered to be very good and even for me, people from other schools who aren’t even in express stream look down on me because they consider themselves better or smarter. i have a few primary school classmates who are in “better” schools and i rarely hang out with them because i’m scared they will look down on me for choosing the school i’m in. just the other day someone from another school just asked me why i choose this school and asked for my aggregate score before telling me their aggregate score. i don’t know if it just my school, but the express students here are really good friends with n(a) students and i have a few friends from n(a) classes myself. it isn’t hard to make friends with people from other streams, you just have to try. the express class before mine looks down on us a lot, so we don’t tend to have a lot of express friends from the other class.
only teenagers trying to show off their english power hehe. Ive been to places and mingle with other races from different countries from all walks of life with different professionals, and i dont have to use fantastic english to get my message across. and im in the trading business. This vid is just about stigma that our youngsters are facing. So my dear teenagers auntie want to tell you, when you bcm an adult, all you need is dedication and passion ❣️ sending lots of hugs ❣️
wtf is “lower streams”????
she meant NA and NT streams
@@Minboelf so IP is a higher stream?
@@unknownperson3691 sort of
@@unknownperson3691 obviously 🙄
Oh, Smiggle is very popular in my school. Its not because theyre cool, they have lots of storage space. But my friends like to show off.
Honestly speaking, people will still be comparing, not limited to secondary school streams
you will still have neighbourhood jc vs elite jc, poly vs jc, poly vs ite
I can see the maturity difference in terms of looks like those from the NA and NT stream dont look as bright as those from IP or express stream. I guess the way you think affects your looks in the long run. Looks can tell your intellignence level, compare a doctors look and a technician - huge difference
I'm from the Normal Academic stream myself and I do interact with both other stream, normal technical and express. Technically I can say it's not very comfortable at times when making friends. Express stream students may look down at us but some do not do that. However, I do meet some who don't look down but their parents will tell them that if they hang out with me, their grades will fall. That was the most painful thing I heard from an adult as a teenager. My best friend is from the normal technical stream. Her mom will tell her to follow my footsteps since I "score better" and is in a better stream. I don't get why this is happening to the kids and teens. Why must education be so competitive... In the end, everyone will be working and giving back to the society. Cleaners may even have a degree! So why look down at other....
I feel little guilty by my own self. This conversation is uncomfortable.But deep. I wish if I got a chance to go through time. 😔
I took the express stream route during my secondary school time but it was a neighborhood school and after streaming, i entered top class in my school. However, mixing with people from NA/NT did not really bothered me because i did not care at all. I hung out more with the people from NA during my recess as i found the people in my class tend to be a lot more studious. I feel education should be more than just studying but finding a purpose and getting to know people. However, i always felt inferior compared to my friends from top elite schools and people that took the IP route because they are the cream of the crop and i'm probably just in my own bubble. For example subjects like A-math are only offered to selected students and to the top class in my school but in their school, it is compulsory for all students and sometimes i wished i studied harder for my PSLE and go to at least a middle-tier school like SJI.
Being in a neighborhood school in express stream, it did not really matter to me. I cared more about the comparison to elite schools and i felt inferior because sometimes i wished i was at the same level as them. It's less of the stream but more of the culture and differences between a neighborhood school and elite school that makes the gap so huge.
the video title should be changed to "How do students in Singapore from the Express, Normal Academic and Normal Technical streams perceive each other?" (like in the description) instead of "How Kids See Class Differences"
I actually had a few friends from na and nt and we can communicate well ! I think we should not let our streams prevent us from making friends or let us look down on people. In the end, we’re still going to be in the outside world and pursue for a job. And I also don’t think that rich background is equivalent to better streams. It really just depends on the individual. I just hate how people calls the na and nt people “stupid” and stereotype them as gangsters etc whereas in real life I’ve actually seen more hardworking na and nt students?? I think it’s just our mindset at the end of the day and if we could just stop having those superior complexity, I think the na and nt can definitely make some express friends :))
This is an eye opener! Really! I hope they’ll fix this gap because in its very nonsense.
One of the reasons why Express students look down on NA/NT students is because most of them seem to not care about the future at all, which is a stereotype because most of them don't care a thing about studying. People would think that they are those that grow up to continuously blame the government, the society and their family upbringing, for them not doing well in school and not landing a stable job. It's not completely true, but there are these types of people in the society that gives off a bad impression of NA/NT students.
Another problem is about fighting and breaking the law. Its undeniably true that NA/NT students have worse conducts than Express Students. The impression given off will just be " Wow, they're young, don't they realise they are ruining their future and the futures of those around them?"
This is how I feel but i definitely do not look down on them, because I'm not about to be fooled by stereotypes that are not reliable.
However, this is what I think "It's fine if you don't do well in school, It doesn't mean that you are stupid. But making stupid decisions to ruin your future or others' is something an Idiot would do."
All in all : If you can't contribute to the society by getting stable professions, at least don't break the laws and make the lives of those who are difficult. This is the main reason people look down on NA/NT streams.
Well, education is just a test, a test to just get you mentally prepared, the real test is the outside world, an outside world where people expect "equally" from your skills like practical, knowledge, etc. Regardless of different streams, well, we all are in the same path, is just that, you just have to choose wisely in-order to move on.
I was in NA and my sister was in NT. Happier they may be, but I could always see the judging faces of many. I do get the side eyes from Express students too, but I have a good friend in express. Being in NPCC from sec 1 definitely broke down walls among our squad mates, who were from a mixture of streams.
As a student I also feel this situations.
I came from an express stream of a neighborhood school, and in my perspective, discrimination goes both ways. There's a lot of talk on how express kids should not be looking down on NA/NT and a lot of the time we are mature enough not to. The students are taught to understand that everyone is talented in different areas. However, even when there's no inter-stream discrimination, there are way more of that in the express stream, with the triple science class, the 8 subs class, 7 subs class. We discriminate amongst ourselves and fear to be "less intelligent". Because once you're in express, it seems all you know is study. I've even experienced discrimination from the normal streams. The students tell us that all we can do is study. The teachers tell us that all we should do is study. And yes, all we do is study. Normal streams students make fun of us for not having a life, curse us out, tell us we're losers in life, while teachers pressure us to study, do better, tell us to drop our subjects if we can't do well. And we compete amongst ourselves, see our peers as the enemies. So that we can pass another exam and go to a JC to pass more exams. Express students, while abundant, are the loneliest. We go in as friends and come out as enemies on the bell curve. We put down others through results to make ourselves feel better. We are told that it's never ok to fail. And while the other streams are going on career guidance, trips to polys and facilities to explore future prospects, we are memorising the process of mitosis and meiosis, so we can qualify for a good JC, for a good unknown future, of which we have no idea what to do with. And once that journey ends, another continues. It's the reason why the ones who are brave enough drop out merely days after orientation to go to a poly, and those who fear judgement grit their teeth and pop pills though the 2 years of junior college. A JC education isn't a bad thing. But we have to stop looking to it as the best thing.
I dare to say, i was from an express stream and other than my classmates, most of my friends outside school or those i hangout with majority were from NT and some from NA and i click with them so well and i NEVER looked down on them. Academic wise, i will try to help them if they ask me qns or offer to help nearing exam dates but hanging out wise, we share the same memories and laugh together, i never treated them like more stupid than me etc. I always try to defend those students when others talk abt them. I automatically speak in a different manner when i’m with different groups of friends so that they feel more comfortable, and i might sound informal when i speak to my friends outside school but that doesnt mean we are uneducated. Well now, i really hate people who look down on NT&NA people. Honestly, the time i spend with those friends is way better than my friends in school, so i naturally spend more time with them and i’m not embarrassed at all. Even though i’m not very close with all of them anymore because of my hectic JC schedule, i will always try to find time and hangout or talk to them. They make me so much happier.
Honestly, family background plays a huge part. I come from a neighbourhood secondary school and went to an average tier jc. I had an enormous culture shock when I went jc bc there was a huge different in the background of the students there. My sec sch had all three streams and most lived in HDB nearby the sch and as a FAS student myself there are also many others on the scheme. And the proportion of the number of FAS students in O vs N level stream is crazy STARK. However, in jc, most of my friens were rich in fact majority of them live in condos/landed so if you lived in hdb youre a minority and only very (far) little people are under FAS. The jc students mostly come from "better" sec schs, mostly from express only stream( they actl asked me "what is N levels" i was so shocked!!!!) and can play musical instruments. The way they speak and carry themselves are very different too. Its only an average jc but already the difference is so huge!! In a way being in jc makes me feel like i am in this very homogenous, "picture perfect" and in a way, "cozy elitist" env which devoids us of the integration seen in neighbourhood sec schs..
So fam backgrd dictates the amt of resources e.g. tuition, enrichment lessons their children will get which impacts their results and sch they go to. Some of my friens even after not doing well in acads can go overseas to study and is living a good life there. Others open up their own company/inherit companies after they grad. U can say that there r pple from poor families who succeed but ask urself honestly, how many? The proportion is far off
"Birds of a feather flock together" is a natural law of social behaviour. We all like to herd together with people who speak the same way and have the same interests. Being kind to others outside your particular group makes life better for everyone.
As a express student in secondary school,I would like to say something for the so called "high class" students.
The main reason express students normally doesnt go along with students from NA or NT is about the classrooms.We dont look down on people from NA or NT,at least I have not seen such things,the Express classroom and NA classroom are far apart and we seldom get to interact with them compared to other express classrooms right around the corner.
During my camp,I got to make friends with people from different streams,they are nice peoples who are also very funny and caring.As for income inequality,I come from a less weathly family but I have no problem mixing around with friends that are rich.There is one guy who could afford private jet for holiday,and he wasnt a rich ahole,in fact he was pretty funny and had a good sense of humor.We are afraid of what we aren't familiar with,so if schools could do more of such interactive activities between different streams,I believe that it would help in the situation.
devoted teachers nd an intelectual guidance counsellor is what i think minimized the rich kid poor kid bullying in our school days... today generation came up the "child friendly" that stripped teachers the authority needed to harmonize kids of different backgrounds...
2018 leaders prefer collaboration and not competition. Seems both stream need to re-evaluate and re-educate the value each stream bring to work together. Not about strong stream helping weak stream. Is about create something new and exciting while learning along with each other.
My Son just graduated from Overseas University. I’m Glad when he was in secondary school he work part time and mixed around with all level of student. And during during Ns he was just a clerk in scdf. He mixed around with all level of ns servicemen.
I’m touched watching this video.
Im a nurse. Even in nursing the Nurses from nus behave differently from Nurses from polytechnics
nice which uni
How different do the nurses behave?
I was an Express student. In my school, if you undermine anyone. (NT , NA ,EXP). You shall be frowned upon. You can flex your wealth, people same kind will flock together.
I have a brother who is in P1, I tell him : "If people show of their stuff to you, just don't care"
coming from an IP school, i think that even if you are from a NA or NT stream, as long as you are willing to work hard and pursue your education, its ok
I feel that its wrong for us to discriminate the lower streams. I myself, an express student from some what an elite sch still interact with NAs and NTs because they are good in personality as being a friend. But lots of people say your grades dont define your skill and personality which I disagree. It defines a quarter of your personality and skill. Example, people who are good in math and physics are more to the application and calculation skilled. And lots of people also say, sports and art or other things other than studies define you which I disagree. Cause not everyone are good in art or sports. And not everyone are good in studies. Hence I conclude that EVERYTHING, not only studies or art or sports define you.
The problems with some comments I see is "The IP/EX are insensitive"
You think they know alot about NA and NT meh? How are some of higher streams suppose to know about some lower stream may have to go through hard time to help family or having struggles in life when they dont even have met this kind of people(lower stream) in their life before. Its actually good to hear the opinions of the Higher stream on what they feel so we can cut off the looking down stereotypes. So plz If you feel she have no rights to share such important information than dont rude to them.
Its a matter of upbringing. All of these classing and streaming creates a basic social construct that affects everyone. Clearly we can see that from the video. But the main thing we should look at is the upbringing that individuals have. From young, parents tend to tell their children not to mix with naughty kids or basically anyone that might have been a sort of negative influence on their children. This is where the main problem starts from. The right thing for a parent to do should be to put trust in their children and if anything, get their children to try their best to help out the the "bad" kids to become better. Even if it might not work out at that point of their life or age, the level of social construct then and foremost no longer starts from the family. Parents should understand that education is about learning and development. It is not about the main achievements that they end up getting. I must admit, my parents did use to tell me to stay away from the "bad" kids. However, this made me more interested in why they were asking me to stay away. Simply i could sum it up with, they were different. They were different not because they were animals or creatures. They were different just because they were maturing or growing at a different pace or growing up in a different environment. But this does not make them a bad influence on a large basis. It just gives a better insight for children to understand that thats how the society is, everyone is different and its only how much you adapt to it that defines you as a person, and how much you are willing to do for it that makes you human.
These also happened in working class. When they went to their primary school, secondary school, tertiary and university gathering, they will start comparing one another how everyone fare after starting from the same platform!
Owh. This is the one that #lepakonekorner nganjing tu. Ok2. Got it. Ade je kan malays yg masuk Express class kan. Why CNA x amek at least one malay from Express class. *sigh