I hate to say but its well known fact that 8bit is more than enough for youtube as SDR 4k. The magic comes in professional work: Full range of usable DR, safe grading, white balance problems fix (RAW video saves the day) green screen work etc. For casual talking heads and floating boats, sure 8bit is fine. There are even movies done in 8bit DSLR codecs like "Rubber" and "Girl walks in to bar" etc. :D
I have a problem and I don't know if I'm not getting it because I'm a beginner or what, but when I move any parameter to remove a photograph, be it iso shutter, etc.... it doesn't show me in real time what I'm doing, but it only shows me It shows a preview on the screen as if it were in auto mode, and the image just appears with the values that I set when I took the photo and I go in to see it, this seems very strange to me and on top of that I can't find a setting to change it
Exactly, that’s the setting. The only annoying thing with Lumix cameras is that above 1 second (or in long exposure), the refresh rate on the screen or evf is the same as the speed your shutter is set at, so, if you set 20 seconds of exposure, any change in aperture, iso or speed you make will show up after those initial 20 seconds. Hope a firmware update will fix that.
@@ensanchefilms8645 I hadn't realized this because I haven't taken any long exposure photos yet, but if you're right, it's quite annoying and you forget to turn it off the constant preview
You did really a great job! I really wonder how major players don't speak about the difference in basic things. You do and it is really great! You did really a good job comparing Panasonic S5 and S5II. Hope to see more of this from you. From your voice, I hear that you are from a Slavic country. Kudos from Ukraine!
Thank you, interesting video. My personal opinion is that 8bit log is something made for marketing purposes and becomes unusable if heavily graded. In my experience a flat profile looks better with minimum grading than log 8bit simply because informations are not there. For me 8bit for video is what is jpg for photo: you need to make your final image directly on camera knowing that you can do only small adjustments in post. Peace and love Ale
I agree, 8 bits provide less room for error. As for n-logs, I heard that they are initially made for certain settings. For example, Canon (some cameras) have a flat profile for 8 bits. But this information is difficult to find in official sources. It is obvious that V-log is made for 10 bits.
You did show us scenes where you cannot see a difference. This is >95% of the time true! 8 bit or 10 bit is only about the color, but 420 and 422 is also effecting the sharpness. If you want to see a difference film a black bird in the sun with clouds in the sky or a black ship with clouds on a sunny day.
@@GEXAR Yes, and I am pretty sure the S5 you did show does have a really good dynamic color range of 14 bit which is compressed into 8 bit or 10 bits. My camera the FZ1000 can do theoretically 12 bits and the light sensitivity is at least 10 times worse. The FZ1000 cannot nearly compete with the S5 and would have shown real differences on the same views and except of low light without total failures. The only thing I cannot film right at all in sunlight is a black raven or a black vulture with clouds in the sky backround. Our eye can see 20 stops / bits of range nonlinear which is even 6 stops more than the S5 without having the resolution of a digital camera. You have proven the 10 bit color range is most time only necessary when someone did choose the wrong ISO settings or the wrong shutter speed.
@@AudioVideo_IT FZ1000 was my first camera. I sold it within 5 days of buying it from the store and decided that I would never go back to cameras of this type. I haven't regretted that decision for a single day since. If your next camera is a full-frame, you'll be amazed right away. I bought the GH5S after the FZ1000, and I thought nothing could be better. But then I tried the S5, and it just blew my mind.
I showed the video to friends who are not in the audiovisual business and they didn't see any difference. The moral of the story is that these stories are for the pros, the average person doesn't see anything. 😉
Indeed, in standard profiles, it's challenging to see the difference, especially after RUclips compression. However, with V-Log profiles, the difference is very noticeable. Although I haven't checked how the video looks on a phone, it's probably not visible there, indeed.
How about 10 bit 4:2:0 VLOG, like the 6k open gate options in S5ii/x? I know downscaling will improve chroma subsampling, but going from 6k 4:2:0 to 4k will not reach all the way to 4:2:2, but it will be closer to 4:2:2 than 4:2:0.
The main reason for shooting 10-bit, IMHO, is when shooting in mixed lighting situations (like, where you have daylight, tungsten and fluorescent in the same shot), and you have to try and key out some of the saturation, or change color temp / tint while using a mask or power window. Or just chrome keying a green screen.
Yes, there will definitely be a noticeable difference. I think if I do similar comparisons in the future, I'll try HSL in Premiere Pro. Using a green screen would indeed be an excellent comparison, I didn't think of that.
In theory, they say so, in practice, I haven't seen a significant difference. I think the video bitrate and the camera's dynamic range have a greater impact on this. But, of course, if the camera supports recording in 10-bit, I don't see a reason to use 8-bit.
RUclips works wonders:) When videos are uploaded in 4K, the quality in Full HD also improves(RUclips then uses a different codec and a higher bitrate). You can try it this way, if, of course, you are not already doing it this way.
@@GEXAR sometimes I use Filmora instead of Premier Pro - what I found was that the multi-channel audio from the S5ii doesn't edit or input all the channels with Filmora....but in MP4 format, the audio files are AAC, and for whatever reason, I can edit those and change a two microphone channel input from stereo to mono in Filmora. With Premier Pro - it handles either with ease.
@@DA-lp4rh I usually only use Premiere Pro, so I have no experience with other programs. But I think maybe there are some settings that need to be changed in Filmora.
Sure, going with 8 Bit requires much less mem😂ory. IMHO, @ 2:26, the Sky of the 10 bits has much wider colour palet than 8 Bit. On order to get the largeur dynamic, I always shoot in VLog. Due to the fact that light (gama) is encoded following a log curve while chroma (GAMUT) IS linear, in my experience when I need to adjust luma between two rushes in post, the wider range of colour colours 10 bits has makes m'y life much easier thanks 8 bits. So I would think that if my capability to correctly expose every scene was perfect, I would probably need 8 Bit only. What do you think ?
It's a misconception when people think that 8-bit takes up less space on the memory card than 10-bit. The main factor is the bitrate. In the video, it was consistently 150 megabits. Honestly, after uploading the videos to RUclips, it became more difficult to find the differences :D Yes, I think that's true. If the scene is well exposed, few people will notice the difference. But I would definitely not use the V-Log profile with 8-bit.
It’s interesting, apparently because every device has a different display of colors and shades. I didn’t see any differences on my monitor, maybe because it’s too big.
I use most of Panasonic cameras since the GH4, I can't see a difference in skin tones or sharpness between 8 and 10 bits. 10 bits gives you more latitude for grading, that's all.
On a 4K monitor, I personally immediately notice the difference between Full HD and lower-resolution videos. If the monitor doesn't support 4K, it will be harder to notice the difference between FHD and 720p than between 4K and FHD.
@@GEXAR It is not at the pixel level, I can see the difference without cropping on my 4K screen, the difference is much more prononced on the standard profiles though.
No actually there is a difference in the grades of colors which I was able to notice after youtube compression and I believe it's more obvious on the pc screen but it's not that night and day difference. It depends on your goal of shooting and production level
I agree. I was more surprised that 8 bits are quite flexible, if you do not shoot in the v-log profile. Yes, if you choose a camera for shooting videos for social platforms, then 10 bits does not give such a huge advantage.
Yes, there is also more noise there. And, in fact, it's more challenging to work with, even when shooting video. I am not a professional colorist, so I rarely use V-Log.
all the 10 bit footage has more color overall. compared to the 8 bit which is less saturated. noticeable even after the youtube compression but im a colorist. maybe the average eye doesn't see that.
Certainly, 10-bit is better. I was surprised that 8-bit is flexible enough (for me, with normal profiles). And there is such a colossal difference between 8 and 10-bit when using a flat profile.
The hype for vlog come from youtubers whith very high and unnusual quality requirements and really problematic workflows.... for social media most of your clients cant be serve whith 8bit full hd ... ¡Sorpresa! One GH4 is all you need most of the time.
There is truth in your words. I would even say that many people are more impressed by beautiful bokeh than by anything else. Often, people tell me, "You have a cool camera," even though we both know it's more about the lenses than the camera itself.
RUclipsrs looking for banding in 8bit footage on devices (monitors graphics cards and tv and phones) when all of those have and are using dithering (banding removal) first install studio driver than turn off dithering in drivers, than in monitor or tv if it has this also turned on than start comparing. 😅
In fact, this is the first time I've heard about this, thanks for the info. I think if the difference is noticeable as it is, then with this feature disabled, it will simply become more pronounced. Although subscribers mentioned that the difference is not as noticeable after uploading to RUclips compared to what I saw on my monitor.
@@GEXAR compression also dithers banding this is first thing. Well different people use different devices with different strength and type of dithering applied also they have different levels of eye training. So the results will also be different for everyone. This is why it is so important to turn off dithering on all devices in your grading workflow. ;) if not, you can see no banding on your pc but it will be in the file, image will look tragic on a decent oled in filmmakers mode (dithering turned off or minimized by default) or other pro pc or mac grading workstation. Just download for example color control software and check if your video outputs use dithering (and other magical features)
If your camera can do 10-bit or above then use it. Not all people only do youtube especially if you own those kind of cameras. Even action cam and phone can do 10-bit now. Technology is getting better and cheaper, why not taking advantage of it?
I absolutely agree. If the camera is capable of recording in 10 bits, there's no point in using 8 bits, especially if the bitrate and memory card space requirements are the same. It was interesting for me to see how significant the difference between them is. I was surprised to find that 8 bits are not as bad as I thought, and it's still possible to work comfortably with them, although not in a flat profile, of course.
Most people watch RUclips where adaptive streaming bitrates and lower resolutions cut in, and also watch on quite small screens. You probably do on your monitor where you are also looking at original footage or renders. It is not what most other people are seeing. It is why spending so much money on camera equipment for distribution on social media platforms is a complete waste of money.
In some way, this is true. Cameras in the category up to $2000 have everything you need, and the more expensive the camera, the less noticeable the difference in the picture. It's like paying $2000 to get 85% of all possibilities and an additional $10000+ to get the remaining 15%.
Yes, if you’re watching from a phone, you definitely won’t notice it. On a PC, there was something visible, but after RUclips compression, the difference might no longer be noticeable.
I hate to say but its well known fact that 8bit is more than enough for youtube as SDR 4k. The magic comes in professional work: Full range of usable DR, safe grading, white balance problems fix (RAW video saves the day) green screen work etc. For casual talking heads and floating boats, sure 8bit is fine. There are even movies done in 8bit DSLR codecs like "Rubber" and "Girl walks in to bar" etc. :D
I agree. Before 10-bit became available to regular users, they were shooting videos in 8-bit, and no one complained about it.
congrats on 1K! just became your #1000 sub :D
Thank you for your support, I have big plans :)
I have a problem and I don't know if I'm not getting it because I'm a beginner or what, but when I move any parameter to remove a photograph, be it iso shutter, etc.... it doesn't show me in real time what I'm doing, but it only shows me It shows a preview on the screen as if it were in auto mode, and the image just appears with the values that I set when I took the photo and I go in to see it, this seems very strange to me and on top of that I can't find a setting to change it
Try to turn on "consonant preview" in the camera. If I understand you correctly.
@@GEXAR Thank you very much, you have solved my problem friend!
Exactly, that’s the setting. The only annoying thing with Lumix cameras is that above 1 second (or in long exposure), the refresh rate on the screen or evf is the same as the speed your shutter is set at, so, if you set 20 seconds of exposure, any change in aperture, iso or speed you make will show up after those initial 20 seconds. Hope a firmware update will fix that.
@@ensanchefilms8645 I hadn't realized this because I haven't taken any long exposure photos yet, but if you're right, it's quite annoying and you forget to turn it off the constant preview
You did really a great job! I really wonder how major players don't speak about the difference in basic things. You do and it is really great! You did really a good job comparing Panasonic S5 and S5II. Hope to see more of this from you. From your voice, I hear that you are from a Slavic country. Kudos from Ukraine!
Спасибо за добрые слова, да, ты прав. Я начал канал когда вообще не знал английского, сейчас уже получатся лучше, но акцент дело тяжелое 🙃
Thank you, interesting video. My personal opinion is that 8bit log is something made for marketing purposes and becomes unusable if heavily graded. In my experience a flat profile looks better with minimum grading than log 8bit simply because informations are not there. For me 8bit for video is what is jpg for photo: you need to make your final image directly on camera knowing that you can do only small adjustments in post.
Peace and love
Ale
I agree, 8 bits provide less room for error. As for n-logs, I heard that they are initially made for certain settings. For example, Canon (some cameras) have a flat profile for 8 bits. But this information is difficult to find in official sources. It is obvious that V-log is made for 10 bits.
You did show us scenes where you cannot see a difference. This is >95% of the time true! 8 bit or 10 bit is only about the color, but 420 and 422 is also effecting the sharpness. If you want to see a difference film a black bird in the sun with clouds in the sky or a black ship with clouds on a sunny day.
Thanks for the advice, but isn't this test about the camera's dynamic range?
@@GEXAR Yes, and I am pretty sure the S5 you did show does have a really good dynamic color range of 14 bit which is compressed into 8 bit or 10 bits. My camera the FZ1000 can do theoretically 12 bits and the light sensitivity is at least 10 times worse. The FZ1000 cannot nearly compete with the S5 and would have shown real differences on the same views and except of low light without total failures. The only thing I cannot film right at all in sunlight is a black raven or a black vulture with clouds in the sky backround. Our eye can see 20 stops / bits of range nonlinear which is even 6 stops more than the S5 without having the resolution of a digital camera. You have proven the 10 bit color range is most time only necessary when someone did choose the wrong ISO settings or the wrong shutter speed.
@@AudioVideo_IT FZ1000 was my first camera. I sold it within 5 days of buying it from the store and decided that I would never go back to cameras of this type. I haven't regretted that decision for a single day since. If your next camera is a full-frame, you'll be amazed right away. I bought the GH5S after the FZ1000, and I thought nothing could be better. But then I tried the S5, and it just blew my mind.
Where do I go in the cámara to be able to shoot on 8 bit color?
It's in the menu where you select different resolutions 4k, FHD and more.
I showed the video to friends who are not in the audiovisual business and they didn't see any difference. The moral of the story is that these stories are for the pros, the average person doesn't see anything. 😉
Indeed, in standard profiles, it's challenging to see the difference, especially after RUclips compression. However, with V-Log profiles, the difference is very noticeable. Although I haven't checked how the video looks on a phone, it's probably not visible there, indeed.
@@GEXARYour video has been shown on a calibrated 4k OLED TV
@@Detendez-vous Then I have no questions ;)
10bit is mostly useful if you shoot in Log profiles.
Yes, there is a huge difference between 8 and 10 bits when using a flat profile.
How about 10 bit 4:2:0 VLOG, like the 6k open gate options in S5ii/x? I know downscaling will improve chroma subsampling, but going from 6k 4:2:0 to 4k will not reach all the way to 4:2:2, but it will be closer to 4:2:2 than 4:2:0.
Honesty, I can't answer that right now. But I assume for V-Log, 4K 4:2:2 would be better.
wow ! 10 years late but better then never... congrats !
As soon as possible
What Monitor do you use?
I use samsung u28e590
@@GEXAR is it a 10 bit Monitor?
@@JonackFilm it is not
The main reason for shooting 10-bit, IMHO, is when shooting in mixed lighting situations (like, where you have daylight, tungsten and fluorescent in the same shot), and you have to try and key out some of the saturation, or change color temp / tint while using a mask or power window. Or just chrome keying a green screen.
Yes, there will definitely be a noticeable difference. I think if I do similar comparisons in the future, I'll try HSL in Premiere Pro.
Using a green screen would indeed be an excellent comparison, I didn't think of that.
i love 8 bit
Is 8-bit v 10-bit only about color? Does 10-bit handle light to dark with better results? I'm specifically thinking of real estate videos,
In theory, they say so, in practice, I haven't seen a significant difference. I think the video bitrate and the camera's dynamic range have a greater impact on this. But, of course, if the camera supports recording in 10-bit, I don't see a reason to use 8-bit.
I get banding using raw prores in black night sky when uploaded to youtube regardless unless thats color aberation . Im new😂🎉
RUclips works wonders:) When videos are uploaded in 4K, the quality in Full HD also improves(RUclips then uses a different codec and a higher bitrate). You can try it this way, if, of course, you are not already doing it this way.
any opinions on the S5ii MP4 format vs MOV with available 4K 10bit 30p in MP4?
I always use .MOV, in this format, all of the camera's features are usually available without any limitations.
@@GEXAR sometimes I use Filmora instead of Premier Pro - what I found was that the multi-channel audio from the S5ii doesn't edit or input all the channels with Filmora....but in MP4 format, the audio files are AAC, and for whatever reason, I can edit those and change a two microphone channel input from stereo to mono in Filmora. With Premier Pro - it handles either with ease.
@@DA-lp4rh I usually only use Premiere Pro, so I have no experience with other programs. But I think maybe there are some settings that need to be changed in Filmora.
Sure, going with 8 Bit requires much less mem😂ory.
IMHO, @ 2:26, the Sky of the 10 bits has much wider colour palet than 8 Bit.
On order to get the largeur dynamic, I always shoot in VLog. Due to the fact that light (gama) is encoded following a log curve while chroma (GAMUT) IS linear, in my experience when I need to adjust luma between two rushes in post, the wider range of colour colours 10 bits has makes m'y life much easier thanks 8 bits.
So I would think that if my capability to correctly expose every scene was perfect, I would probably need 8 Bit only.
What do you think ?
It's a misconception when people think that 8-bit takes up less space on the memory card than 10-bit. The main factor is the bitrate. In the video, it was consistently 150 megabits.
Honestly, after uploading the videos to RUclips, it became more difficult to find the differences :D
Yes, I think that's true. If the scene is well exposed, few people will notice the difference. But I would definitely not use the V-Log profile with 8-bit.
Skin tones were noticeably more subtle and realistic in the 10 bit example for me.
It’s interesting, apparently because every device has a different display of colors and shades. I didn’t see any differences on my monitor, maybe because it’s too big.
I use most of Panasonic cameras since the GH4, I can't see a difference in skin tones or sharpness between 8 and 10 bits. 10 bits gives you more latitude for grading, that's all.
@@aiseurnae5976 Everything is exactly like that
10bit footage was blurrier for some reason... in details especially.
It's strange because I didn't change the focus when I recorded the video.
I have even seen people who don't even realise they are watching at 720p instead of 4K!
On a 4K monitor, I personally immediately notice the difference between Full HD and lower-resolution videos. If the monitor doesn't support 4K, it will be harder to notice the difference between FHD and 720p than between 4K and FHD.
When you see people saying they don't see the image quality difference between S5 and S5II in 4K, I think most of them only need 720 or 1080P
@@aiseurnae5976 Maybe they just compare differently, not everyone is interested in comparing pixels.
@@GEXAR It is not at the pixel level, I can see the difference without cropping on my 4K screen, the difference is much more prononced on the standard profiles though.
No actually there is a difference in the grades of colors which I was able to notice after youtube compression and I believe it's more obvious on the pc screen but it's not that night and day difference. It depends on your goal of shooting and production level
I agree. I was more surprised that 8 bits are quite flexible, if you do not shoot in the v-log profile. Yes, if you choose a camera for shooting videos for social platforms, then 10 bits does not give such a huge advantage.
Log footage is very challange. Even 420 10bit produce noticable worse image than 422 10bit on log footage after color grading.
Yes, there is also more noise there. And, in fact, it's more challenging to work with, even when shooting video. I am not a professional colorist, so I rarely use V-Log.
all the 10 bit footage has more color overall. compared to the 8 bit which is less saturated. noticeable even after the youtube compression but im a colorist. maybe the average eye doesn't see that.
Certainly, 10-bit is better. I was surprised that 8-bit is flexible enough (for me, with normal profiles). And there is such a colossal difference between 8 and 10-bit when using a flat profile.
@@GEXAR indeed, very impressive. I though the 8 bit would crumble under stress. it held his own using the flat profile quite well. nice testing!
The hype for vlog come from youtubers whith very high and unnusual quality requirements and really problematic workflows.... for social media most of your clients cant be serve whith 8bit full hd ... ¡Sorpresa! One GH4 is all you need most of the time.
There is truth in your words. I would even say that many people are more impressed by beautiful bokeh than by anything else. Often, people tell me, "You have a cool camera," even though we both know it's more about the lenses than the camera itself.
I agree, The quality of the GH4 in 4K is perfect for me. The issue is the IBIS and the AF.
On an iPhone at 1080p didn’t see any difference.
Yep, it is true. I think on the phone it doesn't matter. You won't even see the difference between 4K and FHD.
RUclipsrs looking for banding in 8bit footage on devices (monitors graphics cards and tv and phones) when all of those have and are using dithering (banding removal) first install studio driver than turn off dithering in drivers, than in monitor or tv if it has this also turned on than start comparing. 😅
In fact, this is the first time I've heard about this, thanks for the info. I think if the difference is noticeable as it is, then with this feature disabled, it will simply become more pronounced. Although subscribers mentioned that the difference is not as noticeable after uploading to RUclips compared to what I saw on my monitor.
@@GEXAR compression also dithers banding this is first thing. Well different people use different devices with different strength and type of dithering applied also they have different levels of eye training. So the results will also be different for everyone. This is why it is so important to turn off dithering on all devices in your grading workflow. ;) if not, you can see no banding on your pc but it will be in the file, image will look tragic on a decent oled in filmmakers mode (dithering turned off or minimized by default) or other pro pc or mac grading workstation. Just download for example color control software and check if your video outputs use dithering (and other magical features)
@@Red_Lux Thanks for the information and tips, they will definitely come in handy if I make more videos like this =)
If your camera can do 10-bit or above then use it. Not all people only do youtube especially if you own those kind of cameras. Even action cam and phone can do 10-bit now. Technology is getting better and cheaper, why not taking advantage of it?
I absolutely agree. If the camera is capable of recording in 10 bits, there's no point in using 8 bits, especially if the bitrate and memory card space requirements are the same. It was interesting for me to see how significant the difference between them is. I was surprised to find that 8 bits are not as bad as I thought, and it's still possible to work comfortably with them, although not in a flat profile, of course.
Most people watch RUclips where adaptive streaming bitrates and lower resolutions cut in, and also watch on quite small screens. You probably do on your monitor where you are also looking at original footage or renders. It is not what most other people are seeing. It is why spending so much money on camera equipment for distribution on social media platforms is a complete waste of money.
In some way, this is true. Cameras in the category up to $2000 have everything you need, and the more expensive the camera, the less noticeable the difference in the picture. It's like paying $2000 to get 85% of all possibilities and an additional $10000+ to get the remaining 15%.
I also noticed that 10bit helps me to avoid (or to reduce significantly) the Moire effect.
This is probably true. I personally rarely shoot in 8-bit, so I didn't pay attention to the moire.
H265 4.2.0 give better image than 4.2.2 h264 and less sharpness. Difference is minimal
Sorry mate but this was a bit pointless. There was literally no difference in the footage visible
Yes, if you’re watching from a phone, you definitely won’t notice it. On a PC, there was something visible, but after RUclips compression, the difference might no longer be noticeable.
Прикольно, полезно