I sometimes think people worry a bit too much about noise. As cameras get better, the bar for noise free images gets raised as well by users while what i'm noticing is: - On a youtube video like this, the noise is often hard to spot due to compression. If you publish on social media, the platform will act as a noise filter for you. - On a service like netflix most content is now rendered with a ton of dither/grain/noise. I've read that they now aggressively compress footage and send it 'smoothend-out' and then overlay a noise/grain pattern while rendering out to mimic a natural, 'organic' looking image. As long as the noise doesn't overwhelm the encoder, I prefer to have a bit of noise as it helps to bring out subtle detail and texture. Fortunately the visual appearance of noise on the S5 is quite pleasant and much better than the noise of digital cameras from several years back.
Fully agree!I was happy with the GH5S and when I bought a full-frame camera, I completely forgot about the noise. And about RUclips compression is also 100% true.I first uploaded the video in FHD and saw that the difference was not visible, so I started uploading the video in 4k, everything is visible there normally (but not everyone has a 4K monitor).So, I started doing a voice-over to make it clearer what is happening in the video.
The noise reduction in Davinci resolve shows a much better quality performance. If you give a sharpness of 10% after applying noise reduction, the blurring problem due to noise reduction will be corrected and many details will become clear again. Since I had a lot of trouble with noise at the time, I applied many ways and the healthiest one was on Davinci resolve. The noise reduction in Premiere pro causes a lot of loss of detail, so my recommendation is to use the noise reduction in Davinci resolve.
The main problem with premiere pro is that it does not have its own noise reduction, only third-party plugins.Davinci resolve will definitely be better in this regard.
Это было очень полезно. Я думал что у панаса как у сони слог3 лучший для лоу лайта, но не тут то оно было. Спасибо что предостерег, а то я хотел в логе снимать.
I feel like there is only half information in this video. Saying that Vlog is unusable at anything above iso 4000 is simply not true. Vlog is, by nature, more noisy than the other profiles. Part of working with Vlog is having to do a bit of cleaning up in post. Once you apply some minor noise reduction in resolve the Vlog even at higher ISO's is pretty dang clean. By all means use another profile but you are sacrificing a lot in post production flexibility and dynamic range by doing so.
To be honest, I first heard that log should be used with noise reduction only in the last video, which is why this video came out. As for the dynamic range, when shooting at night, the standard profile was enough for me. Maybe not as much as a log, but flexible enough, although more contrasting.
@@GEXAR If I were you I'd leave in camera noise reduction turned right down. It never does a good job. To get the best results you would need to add noise reduction in post. I think if you try that you'd be shocked at the results with even the smallest amount of noise reduction.
I thought that vLOG does not do Noise Reduction in camera and is as close to a RAW codec as you can get. RAW does not do Noise Reduction either and would look awful in your tests. I use Davinci Resolve for my editing and Noise Reduction and I can say that I am extremely pleased with how good the paid-for version of Resolve does cleaning Noise. I have a GH6 and my friend has a S5II. I am very happy to shoot vLOG day and night with my GH6. However if I want as little pose-editing then any of the presets which are REC709 colour profiles then they will do a good job.
I'm also thinking of trying Davinci, but I'm stuck with the adobe system since I've bought a lot of plugins for it. Davinci is developing much faster than adobe and there is no subscription, what I like.
So is the conclusion that this camera just shouldn’t be used above its base ISO’s? I’ve noticed a lot of noise in Vlog footage from the high end of its lower base ISO aswell.
My opinion is that the basic noise reduction setting in all profiles of 50%, is the best option. For V-log, I advise you to use the same 50% noise reduction. But work in the range up to 4000 ISO, in extreme cases no higher than 8000 ISO.
Thank you for making this video! Your are superstar! Very rarely would I ever shoot a scene like this and I will try to stick to 4000iso at 50% NR and light my scenes as well as possible
@@GEXAR No vlog is made for people that are setting up the scene. Like a movie, short film, studio setup. You should only be using it at its base ISOs. You light for the camera and that's how its supposed to be used. Look up how the Cinel EI setting on Sony's work to get a better understanding how a LOG profile works. The other picture profiles change a lot when the iso is raised. They are changing tons of setting behind the scenes (more noise redcution and resharpening, and lowering and changing dynamic range) to give a better image straight out of camera. In a log profile the higher you raise the iso its the same as just raising the shadows and midtones in post production. Its like grabbing a shadow slider and cranking it. To keep maximum dynamic range of the sensor as any LOG is designed to, it just raises the shadows and mid tones in cameras to make the mid tones/shadows brighter, thus getting a lot more noise in the the shadows and mid tones. Log formats are just totally different " Picture Profiles" and need to be understood as such. So yes if you are going to be doing a lot of low light you should play with the other picture profiles and find settings that you like. Otherwise you will spend a lot of time in post with noise reduction and resharpening to get the image acceptable.
@@jessecumberledge4530 This is the best comment about V-log, thanks for taking the time to write it.I also learned something new.About staged scenes and native ISO, this is 100% true.Can you write this comment not as a Reply?I want to Pin it😇
Thank you. I was checking this video because of the same "issue" on the new GH7. I have so much noise on VLOG that its unbearable even if the conditions are ok. I will try natural profile as it looks it has the best results, but still far from clean footage. Cheers!
@@GEXAR so I'd expect better results if Im in manual focus, but no change honestly. Canon R5 (not the best 'video' camera with overheating issues, produces super clean video under same conditions)
@@johobirding It's quite possible. Canon is still the most expensive and popular brand. Sometimes I think about switching my Lumix S5II to the Canon R6II, but the price always makes me reconsider.
@@GEXAR for photography is it clear winner, but for video (4K)...canon R6 II will overheat - after like 13 minutes, in summer its much faster (R5 does it and R5 II is as bad) That's why I went for Lumix GH7, top tech new camera with so much to offer, I spent 6.6K EUR on it (body + 3 lenses) and now I cant get nice clean sequence out of it. Its not what I expected and also, nobody complains (??), but me. So I was think if my camera is not broken :), or simply its not camera for wildlife...
@@johobirding In terms of image quality, try the S5-it's the best I’ve seen (with the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8). The autofocus is terrible, but it's fine for photos. I switched from the GH5S to it. Now I have the S5II, and while I’m not satisfied with the image quality or low-light performance, it’s better than the previous version in most other aspects. Sometimes I even think about getting the S5 again instead of the S5II. Thanks for telling me about Canon, it really put me off buying it, and I don’t recall hearing about overheating in the reviews either.
This is similar with Canon C-log3 as well. I shoot low light using the standard profiles (not log) and even ISO 12800 is super clean on the R6 Mark II. Log isn't ideal for low light, nor is it even necessary because in low light dynamic range isn't that great.
I personally haven’t worked with Canon cameras yet, but I think most Log profiles will be approximately the same, unless of course they were specifically created for lowlight (like some on Sony cameras).
Oh this is a tough choice. On S5II the only thing I'm missing is 4k120fps and 60fps 10 bit 4.2.2 without crop. If these parameters are not critical for you, then I would definitely recommend it. It's great for video.
The big problem is the S5ii uses a lot more chroma noise reduction (even at -5)and weird sharpening than the S1 and S5 with the regular video profiles, so with my S5ii I can't get the fantastic low light image quality of my S1.
I think if it is possible to fix it with firmware, they will fix it soon. And if this is a technical problem, then perhaps it was a sacrifice for the new autofocus. :(
@@GEXAR Yes I think too because V-log has no weird sharpening nor too much chroma noise reduction, so a firmware could fix this. I use my S1 for low light when I don't need AF and S5ii for everything else but it's not really practical.
Hi, you're right, but I made a comparison in future videos and left a note in the description of this video. Here is the main conclusion from that video: *S5II and S5IIX have weaker noise reduction compared to Lumix S5, so you can set this value to +5 (except for the V-log profile).*
@@GEXAR I saw one test video but never tried it by myself, the footage looks blown out even in the skin tones but the end result is super clean. Do you know if overexposing works in night scenes like the one you were shooting? In the example video I watched they had a very dark scene and there was really 0 noise with that technique. My camera is currently in repair so I have no way of testing it out 😢
@@der.kommentierende.komment5275 It is very difficult to overexpose the V-log profile at night, especially by 2 stops. I do not have such fast lenses. I haven't tried it, but if you try, please let me know :)
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I sometimes think people worry a bit too much about noise. As cameras get better, the bar for noise free images gets raised as well by users while what i'm noticing is:
- On a youtube video like this, the noise is often hard to spot due to compression. If you publish on social media, the platform will act as a noise filter for you.
- On a service like netflix most content is now rendered with a ton of dither/grain/noise. I've read that they now aggressively compress footage and send it 'smoothend-out' and then overlay a noise/grain pattern while rendering out to mimic a natural, 'organic' looking image.
As long as the noise doesn't overwhelm the encoder, I prefer to have a bit of noise as it helps to bring out subtle detail and texture. Fortunately the visual appearance of noise on the S5 is quite pleasant and much better than the noise of digital cameras from several years back.
Fully agree!I was happy with the GH5S and when I bought a full-frame camera, I completely forgot about the noise.
And about RUclips compression is also 100% true.I first uploaded the video in FHD and saw that the difference was not visible, so I started uploading the video in 4k, everything is visible there normally (but not everyone has a 4K monitor).So, I started doing a voice-over to make it clearer what is happening in the video.
Thanks bro 🎉
The noise reduction in Davinci resolve shows a much better quality performance. If you give a sharpness of 10% after applying noise reduction, the blurring problem due to noise reduction will be corrected and many details will become clear again. Since I had a lot of trouble with noise at the time, I applied many ways and the healthiest one was on Davinci resolve. The noise reduction in Premiere pro causes a lot of loss of detail, so my recommendation is to use the noise reduction in Davinci resolve.
No one with premiere pro uses the noise reduction.
Neat is the ANSWER, to the noise
The main problem with premiere pro is that it does not have its own noise reduction, only third-party plugins.Davinci resolve will definitely be better in this regard.
I don't remember when I had to use it either. Only for this test.
Problem is you need to buy Davinci for the best Noise Reduction. For amateur videos, the 50% NR is good enough...
Final Cut Pro is very good at reducing noise.
Это было очень полезно. Я думал что у панаса как у сони слог3 лучший для лоу лайта, но не тут то оно было. Спасибо что предостерег, а то я хотел в логе снимать.
Я свою первую съемку ночью просрал по этой причине, тоже не знал тогда этого.
I feel like there is only half information in this video. Saying that Vlog is unusable at anything above iso 4000 is simply not true. Vlog is, by nature, more noisy than the other profiles. Part of working with Vlog is having to do a bit of cleaning up in post. Once you apply some minor noise reduction in resolve the Vlog even at higher ISO's is pretty dang clean. By all means use another profile but you are sacrificing a lot in post production flexibility and dynamic range by doing so.
To be honest, I first heard that log should be used with noise reduction only in the last video, which is why this video came out. As for the dynamic range, when shooting at night, the standard profile was enough for me. Maybe not as much as a log, but flexible enough, although more contrasting.
@@GEXAR If I were you I'd leave in camera noise reduction turned right down. It never does a good job. To get the best results you would need to add noise reduction in post. I think if you try that you'd be shocked at the results with even the smallest amount of noise reduction.
Have you tried this with HLG? If so, would you still recommend the 50% noise reduction like the other profiles?
Hello, unfortunately I have not tried it with HLG.
I would use 50% if I shot in this profile.
I thought that vLOG does not do Noise Reduction in camera and is as close to a RAW codec as you can get. RAW does not do Noise Reduction either and would look awful in your tests.
I use Davinci Resolve for my editing and Noise Reduction and I can say that I am extremely pleased with how good the paid-for version of Resolve does cleaning Noise.
I have a GH6 and my friend has a S5II. I am very happy to shoot vLOG day and night with my GH6. However if I want as little pose-editing then any of the presets which are REC709 colour profiles then they will do a good job.
I'm also thinking of trying Davinci, but I'm stuck with the adobe system since I've bought a lot of plugins for it. Davinci is developing much faster than adobe and there is no subscription, what I like.
Are you comparing after color space transform?
Yes, if you're talking about V-Log.
So is the conclusion that this camera just shouldn’t be used above its base ISO’s? I’ve noticed a lot of noise in Vlog footage from the high end of its lower base ISO aswell.
My opinion is that the basic noise reduction setting in all profiles of 50%, is the best option.
For V-log, I advise you to use the same 50% noise reduction. But work in the range up to 4000 ISO, in extreme cases no higher than 8000 ISO.
Thank you for making this video! Your are superstar! Very rarely would I ever shoot a scene like this and I will try to stick to 4000iso at 50% NR and light my scenes as well as possible
Thank you very much for the kind words :) In fact, f2.8 lenses and ISO up to 10000 were enough for me in most cases, but I do not use V-log.
Thanks for the comparison 🙏 looks like the other profiles are still better than v log even with internal noise reduction on
Definitely so, V-log is more about highlights.
@@GEXAR No vlog is made for people that are setting up the scene. Like a movie, short film, studio setup. You should only be using it at its base ISOs. You light for the camera and that's how its supposed to be used. Look up how the Cinel EI setting on Sony's work to get a better understanding how a LOG profile works.
The other picture profiles change a lot when the iso is raised. They are changing tons of setting behind the scenes (more noise redcution and resharpening, and lowering and changing dynamic range) to give a better image straight out of camera. In a log profile the higher you raise the iso its the same as just raising the shadows and midtones in post production. Its like grabbing a shadow slider and cranking it. To keep maximum dynamic range of the sensor as any LOG is designed to, it just raises the shadows and mid tones in cameras to make the mid tones/shadows brighter, thus getting a lot more noise in the the shadows and mid tones. Log formats are just totally different " Picture Profiles" and need to be understood as such.
So yes if you are going to be doing a lot of low light you should play with the other picture profiles and find settings that you like. Otherwise you will spend a lot of time in post with noise reduction and resharpening to get the image acceptable.
@@jessecumberledge4530 This is the best comment about V-log, thanks for taking the time to write it.I also learned something new.About staged scenes and native ISO, this is 100% true.Can you write this comment not as a Reply?I want to Pin it😇
thank you for making this.
Thank you for your attention☺
Thank you. I was checking this video because of the same "issue" on the new GH7. I have so much noise on VLOG that its unbearable even if the conditions are ok. I will try natural profile as it looks it has the best results, but still far from clean footage. Cheers!
Yes, it's all because of the new autofocus. I'm also very upset, the new cameras are much noisier *(
@@GEXAR so I'd expect better results if Im in manual focus, but no change honestly. Canon R5 (not the best 'video' camera with overheating issues, produces super clean video under same conditions)
@@johobirding It's quite possible. Canon is still the most expensive and popular brand. Sometimes I think about switching my Lumix S5II to the Canon R6II, but the price always makes me reconsider.
@@GEXAR for photography is it clear winner, but for video (4K)...canon R6 II will overheat - after like 13 minutes, in summer its much faster (R5 does it and R5 II is as bad) That's why I went for Lumix GH7, top tech new camera with so much to offer, I spent 6.6K EUR on it (body + 3 lenses) and now I cant get nice clean sequence out of it. Its not what I expected and also, nobody complains (??), but me. So I was think if my camera is not broken :), or simply its not camera for wildlife...
@@johobirding In terms of image quality, try the S5-it's the best I’ve seen (with the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8). The autofocus is terrible, but it's fine for photos. I switched from the GH5S to it. Now I have the S5II, and while I’m not satisfied with the image quality or low-light performance, it’s better than the previous version in most other aspects. Sometimes I even think about getting the S5 again instead of the S5II. Thanks for telling me about Canon, it really put me off buying it, and I don’t recall hearing about overheating in the reviews either.
This is similar with Canon C-log3 as well. I shoot low light using the standard profiles (not log) and even ISO 12800 is super clean on the R6 Mark II. Log isn't ideal for low light, nor is it even necessary because in low light dynamic range isn't that great.
I personally haven’t worked with Canon cameras yet, but I think most Log profiles will be approximately the same, unless of course they were specifically created for lowlight (like some on Sony cameras).
Did you find leaving noise reduction at 0 to be better even if using neat video in post? (Non vlog profiles)
Yes, I think this is the best choice
то что доктор прописал. Пока снимал все в стандартном режиме. Более менее покрывает мои задачи. Благодарю за тест
Пожалуйста👍
do you recommend this or the xh2s for video?
Oh this is a tough choice. On S5II the only thing I'm missing is 4k120fps and 60fps 10 bit 4.2.2 without crop. If these parameters are not critical for you, then I would definitely recommend it. It's great for video.
The big problem is the S5ii uses a lot more chroma noise reduction (even at -5)and weird sharpening than the S1 and S5 with the regular video profiles, so with my S5ii I can't get the fantastic low light image quality of my S1.
I think if it is possible to fix it with firmware, they will fix it soon. And if this is a technical problem, then perhaps it was a sacrifice for the new autofocus. :(
@@GEXAR Yes I think too because V-log has no weird sharpening nor too much chroma noise reduction, so a firmware could fix this.
I use my S1 for low light when I don't need AF and S5ii for everything else but it's not really practical.
I did see the same. The Vlog in s5II definetly more difficult to handle!
Intresting🎉THANK YOU
You are welcome!
my man,thx
Thanks for testing, has helped me much!
I'm very glad I could help!
awesome!
Thanks!
Thank you so much.
Thanks for good words!
I thought I'd find this interesting, but I have literally no idea what you've been saying.
Are you talking about the accent or the theme of the video?
if this was filmed on a lumix s5 and not the mark 2, then video is basically useless as they have different sensors
Hi, you're right, but I made a comparison in future videos and left a note in the description of this video. Here is the main conclusion from that video:
*S5II and S5IIX have weaker noise reduction compared to Lumix S5, so you can set this value to +5 (except for the V-log profile).*
As I know you have to Overexpose Vlog by almost 2 stops to get optimal clean results
Honestly, I hear about 2 stops for the first time, I usually heard about 1.
@@GEXAR I saw one test video but never tried it by myself, the footage looks blown out even in the skin tones but the end result is super clean. Do you know if overexposing works in night scenes like the one you were shooting? In the example video I watched they had a very dark scene and there was really 0 noise with that technique. My camera is currently in repair so I have no way of testing it out 😢
@@der.kommentierende.komment5275 It is very difficult to overexpose the V-log profile at night, especially by 2 stops. I do not have such fast lenses. I haven't tried it, but if you try, please let me know :)
@@GEXAR Yes you are right, sadly I don't have a 0.95 lens anymore, would have been nice to test it
you only make necessary videos
I'm glad you liked it!